-timestop spell for wizards and spellcasters
-new neverseen locations
-dark fantasy tone
-rogue stones could lead you to the lairs of the liches, demiliches etc.
-dynamic environment design for some secrets (hidden walls, destructible walls, spell-locked doors)
-interesting companion dynamic (Yoshimo can betray you in due time)
-exploring various neverseen planes and realms through the portals
-drow city and spider queen boss encounter
-intrigues, conspiracies, mysteries and rituals
-witches factions
-mimic monsters (various designs with traps)
-wicked and twisted characters, monsters and bosses
-floating city https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4e/73/de/4e73deb478031e1d6aaa651380d75398.jpg
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I expect Larian will nail the gameplay nuances well.

The aspect I am unsure of is whether they will nail the feel, aesthetic and auditory qualities of Baldur's gate.
They really, truly need to nail the art.

*Portrait art was so crucial in grounding the games characters. They need to employ an artist that will depict characters rich with suggestion and curiosities.

*The interface should avoid modern overtones such as floating text boxes. The original games could use simulated elements
such as stone, leather, bronze, wood..... grounded elements that gave the interface a sense of presence. That isn't to say
it should'nt be trimmed down, but that the interface should feel tangible. I guess given the flesh tearing Mind Flayer on display, organic elements might also work.

*Its buttons should have weight.
Never underestimate the satisfaction of a click of mouse or press of a button. Diablo didn't.
Just you open up Baldur's Gate 1 and click the menu buttons. The feeling of pressing a stone button has such character.
Please ignore any aesthetic "Improvements" Beamdog/Overhaul did for the re-release. Those were like George Lucas painting cheesy CG over Star Wars. Kind of embarrassing.

*If the series did one thing well it was distilling entire characters into memorable catch phrases. Even if your characters are fully voiced, lean into their battle cries to help set your characters personalities apart.

*Be visually consistent. All the portraits should look in the same style, all the armor should look like it belongs in the same world. Don't overdo it. This is not an anime.
Make a decision on how grounded the game will be and stick to it. The original game was very grounded in a traditional medieval landscape. The sequel had a little more exotic influence, but it was all LORE centered. Consistent.

*Consistent narrative. If I were to imagine what this could look like, I would say a very grounded world that punctuates exotic elements. The characters of the world are likely used to a very traditional medieval fantasy life, but the adventure can be in discovering with new eyes the magic and exotic elements of the world that should not just be taken for granted strewn about the world. A world like Planescape is more suited to taking for granted exotic oddities like ^^ Floating cities. Unless our characters are world travellers and lifelong adventurers, they should still have a sense of wonder about the world. If these things are introduced, maybe a wise character like I just described would be ideal as a mentor type figure to initiate into a fantastical situation.

Get the RealmsLore right. Please??? The Trailer is all kinds of wrong.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Ceremorphosis

New Mindflayers are infants despite being fully grown, and so cannot function on their own, requiring 20 years of instruction and experience... Also, the host isnt still in control. its a husk controlled by the tadpole so the "fear" on the Flaming Fist Guard is not viable pre transformation.

Im not saying this to start issues. I WANT this game to be right... but if it's in the Forgotten Realms, the lore is key!

Plough Jester is sadly correct. The D&D/faerun lore is important, not just because "thats how it used to be" but because a great amount of effort went into it all and there are reasons that tie together that make the world a real place rather than just a back drop.

as said by Mike Mearls in one of the interviews (i believe it was him; or it was Swen and Mike agreed or something like that) what we see is "Accelerated Ceremorphosis", so the "general ceremorphosis rules" do not apply

I really hope that Larian succeed with this project. It would be sad for this to go the way of N-Space and Sword Coast Legends. Us D&D fans can be harsh and unforgiving. I am hoping that Larian and Wizards can work well together to deliver on this. Transparency and managing fan expectation is key. Negativity aside I am actually really hyped for this.

For me, I want it to have some of the same features that gave NWN1 and NWN2 the longevity they had and still have. Players are still making content for both, despite support ending years ago. What made those two games last as long as they did was the toolset and ability to direct connect to servers via IP address. Meaning that even after the Gamespy matchmaking servers went down people could still do multiplayer. So for me the three main things are as follows:

Toolset
DM mode
Private hosting(direct connect to IP)

#GatherYourParty

Yeah I'm a Forgotten Realms lore junkie, so the game keeping its lore straight is very important to me.

Re. the look and feel of the game, I don't think we are going to get a game that looks and feels like the original games. Sorry. The reason I say this is the following. This game is indisputably a AAA game. None of the Infinity Engine games, the NwN games, the recent crop of so-called "cRPG renaissance" games, or even the D:OS games are AAA. And if you are going to make a AAA game, you are playing at a completely different level. As a simple illustration, we all know that D:OS2 sold exceedingly well. If BG3 sells double, even triple what D:OS2 sold, it would be a huge failure and financial disaster for Larian. BG3 needs to sell a minimum of 10 million, and likely closer to 20 million copies for it to be considered a success as a AAA title. That means it needs to satisfy a gaming audience well beyond people like us, people who are hardcore RPG niche gamers, and reach the casual mainstream gamer audience. So no clunky UIs, no isometric perspective, lots of "help" for the player, a modern look and feel, high-end graphics, etc.

- Don't overthink it. D&D mechanics in 5e have been simplified and they work well at the table or in a video game. Instead of trying to rebalance the whole thing by removing attack rolls/chance to miss why not try to implement functionality that has previously never been done in video games such as grappling mechanics or flying mechanics (been done, but not in a D&D / Party based game).

- Contrary to some others, I feel it would be better if this was a slower paced, low level adventure that then goes on to do higher level stuff in a 2nd game. What better to continue the Baldur's Gate franchise than making the deep, rich story of a PC and his party members that takes us through over 100 hours of game time over ~2 games, each with an expansion or 2? In other words, I'd be perfectly fine with BG3 only taking the PC to level ~7 or 8 and having an expansion to 10, BG4 (hopefully) then would be able to have a higher level adventure that takes the PC to ~18 with a 'final chapter' ala Throne of Bhaal to take the PC to 20.

- Along this vein, please avoid giving out overpowered/end game equipment and then taking it away to start the next game. D&D 5e has brought magical equipment back in to the realm of being rare and, while powerful nowhere near the ridiculousness of 3.x / 4e magic items. It's ok for the party to end the first game with mostly +1 / low level items and maybe just a couple of +2 / mid-level items... In fact 5e has several magical items that don't give enhancement at all, but other useful benefits.

- Please don't give us a D&D story with non-D&D mechanics. It has been SOOOOO LOOOONG since a good D&D came out. It would be nice to actually have it be a true D&D game. Use the 5e mechanics (with feats and racial bonuses/negatives, etc.) as fully as possible and stick as close to the rules system as possible. If you make changes to one part it will impact other parts and make the game end up looking nothing like D&D.

D&D 5e has in my opinion brought the system back closer to what it was in AD&D (1e / 2e) and I am very glad BG3 is being made when the ruleset has seemingly come 'full circle'. I was ok with 3.x, but always felt the emphasis was far too centered around 'builds' while 4e was something I would barely classify as relating to any previous iteration of D&D. 5e is the first time since 2e where I feel they got it right and improved upon the mixture of supporting roleplay and mechanics. I just really hope for a game that embraces this.

While I would prefer grid/turn-based combat similar (but hopefully less buggy than!) Temple of Elemental Evil, I still think it works fine with RTwP as in the Infinity Engine games. Whatever is decided, the combat should feel like D&D, otherwise having a story set in Forgotten Realms would feel like a marketing ploy where they took a unique system that could be in any custom setting and plopped it in to FR in order to capture the D&D market without actually giving the fans of that system a D&D game.

Well, I'm resigned to the expectation that this game will have a similar crappy combat system as the D:OS games, even though Larian will strenuously deny that it is a copy of the D:OS system, but hopefully at least in a few other areas the game will be good. For example:

1) Keep party size at 6. I love these kinds of games precisely for my party of companions and all the interactions with them as well as being able to develop them through the game. So a reduced party size, by definition, is a direct reduction in my enjoyment. A corollary to this point: please give me a UI screen where I can simultaneously access the equipment of all of my companions, not just the ones currently in my party. I don't horde my best equipment just for the current active party members. I like to distribute my equipment as appropriate across all of my companions, and it is a serious pain to have to swap party members in and out of my party to distribute equipment.

2) Stay true to D&D and Forgotten Realms lore. The lore is WAY more important to me than the rules. I am a Forgotten Realms lore junkie. I own and have read almost all of the FR novels and FR 3.5e sourcebooks. A corollary to this point: spread the game around to other parts of the Realms beyond Baldur's Gate/Sword Coast. The setting has so many very interesting places in it. Let's go visit them already!

3) Environmental reactivity is well and good, just please not like in the D:OS games where in every battle water puddles and oil barrels and collapseable walls and such are always conveniently available and placed exactly how you want them.

On combat, assuming that it is going to be TB, and as such that I and a large number of other RTwP fans will hate it, I hope Larian will include mechanisms for getting around combat. For example:

1) Make it possible to achieve your goals without engaging in combat as much as possible, and give players equivalent rewards for non-combat ways of achieving goals.

2) Have separate difficulty settings for the game overall versus for combat. That way, I can play the game on, say, 'normal' difficulty overall, but have the difficulty set to 'easy' for combat so that I can breeze through it and not have to suffer slogging through it.

3) Have an AI auto-resolve option for some combat situations.

This way, I get to at least enjoy the game for its non-combat parts without suffering too much with the combat parts.

4verse Some made up, new "Accelerated Ceremorphosis" IS acceptable, but only IF they explain that in game through some discovery/story point etc. they cannot just drop a lorebreaking story point in without an explanation IN the game if it has never (and it hasn't) existed in Realms Lore.

So more Dragon Age than DOS2? Interesting. If that is the case, Larian really does have a lot of work to do to prove themselves at that level of cinematic production.
Not impossible though, i mean look at the jump from Witcher 1 to 2 to 3. You are right, UI will need to change for such a game. It will be more of "you are the character" rather than "you are the god of the gameworld". In which case it does require something more understated. I do keep to my original statements though in regard to any potential inventory system.

I know I will likely be ignored, but I really would like to see sparing use for quest arrows or markers in the main HUD. An alternative would be to flesh out the journal system for modern gamers. That may be too much to ask for AAA though I still would prefer painted character portraits to CG models.

What I would like to see is some well defined pre-created characters akin to DOS2, that can have a pre-built cinematically optimal transition into the gameworld that can be tweaked. I like toying with character creator's, but I realized when playing DOS2 that it would take a lot of extra time to create a character as interesting and deep as some of their pre-made ones. Its nice to be able to jump into a well made character right away.

So much this! Games that give you directions as you might get from a real life person are great and at it's heart Infinity Engine games are 'lawn mower' games. Now, in today's gaming world I don't think anyone expects to 'run the lawnmower' unless they are playing the newer IE games maybe. However, there should be a good deal of exploration and the way to make that an organic experience is to give directions (sometimes detailed, sometimes vague). If you point the PLAYER directly to the next quest objective then they are by definition robbed of any reason to explore. What is the point of filling a game world with a giant world to interact with and interesting NPC's to talk to if you're just going to hand hold them from one objective to the next?

Also, a couple of nice items hidden randomly throughout the world is always a nice touch (a-la diamond in a tree, ring of wizardry, ankheg plate, etc.)

Swen Vincke's recent comment about doing away with spell slots/spell memorization and probably going with cooldowns has me really worried and very unhappy. Sounds like yet another way this game will be more a D:OS game than a BG game.

Cooldowns.... how modern. I guess it encourages more experimentation if your not worried about expending single use spells before resting, but.... that means we will definitely be getting a persistent skill bar at the bottom of screen somewhere. My hope is that they are stylized icons rather than full colour art of flames and screaming faces etc. The original games made very effective representations of spells and skills with their little icons. It will look much more stylish that way I think.

Also, for whatever reason I don't want to see a horse in this game. I think other games have done that well enough, but I prefer the kind of fellowship of hiking with companions and taking the time to take in the environment.

But if you don't have spell slots, spell memorization, and resting (all of which are core elements of D&D), and instead cooldowns (D:OS), how is this a D&D game? That's the question I have. Are they making a D&D game or are they making a D:OS game?

When I first heard that this game even existed I was really surprised and then relieved that it would be done by Larian instead of Bioware... given their state now I couldn't trust them with a sequel such as this. However I've played Divinity Original Sin and will play the sequel when I get around to it, and Original Sin is one of my favourite fantasy RPGs I've ever played, so I'm confident Larian will do well here.
I do have some general suggestions - Baldur's Gate and Divinity have contrasting tones in a sense. I don't want to see a Baldur's gate that gets too wacky and silly for its own good; hopefully the developers know exactly the balanced kind of dark but sometimes silly setting in D&D.
I do hope with the companions that they focus on quality over quantity and make all of them as interesting as possible with their side quest arcs similar to BG2. I feel like there is an opportunity here for dragons too... I preface this by saying that in the D&D universe, with both books and games, that the dichotomy of metallic and chromatic dragons being "good' and "evil" doesn't feel very fleshed out or explained wherever they appear. I'd really like to see some story arc with dragons or mages/researchers exploring this. Having a "good" dragon that actually is evil or a an "evil" dragon actually being smart and not being a murderous monster would make for an interesting story/lore avenue for this game to explore. Even better is if one such abnormal dragon could be a party member... after all pretty much all dragons can take human forms, and the closest we ever got to a dragon party member in a game is Deekin from Neverwinter Nights.

I've been looking for something like BG or the Divinity games for a while now.

I was turned off BG as it exists now just because, and this is a bit silly, the presentation/graphics are a bit dated. I like to look at something pretty while I play, at least to a degree. Then I found out about the Divinity games, and was really close to just buying one, that is until I read some more about gameplay.

I was saddened to find out that the expansive list of abilities in BG wasn't present in Divinity games, it's trimmed down instead. I'm sure there are excellent reasons for this, but it also meant that the particular gameplay styles I enjoy simply aren't present.

BG 3 might be the best of both worlds for me, and I am endlessly excited about that possibility.
This isn't true for a huge number of people, and certainly not for the majority of people on this forum, but if BG 3 enables the archetypical gameplay styles I like then it'll be the first time for me to experience the world of D&D firsthand.

This! So agree with a lot oft his Chad... Check out my post from earlier:

http://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=652823#Post652823

Also... Changed from spells per day / rest to on CDs?
Oh geezzz!! please no!
The wizards / magic-users of D&D are not constantly at war.. not constantly churning through 100 enemies a day ala Diablo... I sooo hope they don't change mechanics that much...

I understand that they are trying to market a new younger generation, BUT don't throw out the baby with the bath water! --> The game needs to be as internally consistent as possible! The gameplay needs!!! to fit its narrative!

P.S. Do any game developers read these forums?

I sure hope so.

There are many things I loved about Dungeons and Dragons, Video games and table top.

One is the ability to really customize your character by multi- classing and using different feats to really make a one of a kind toon, sometimes they were great at low level only to suck at higher levels... but hey that's half the fun.

I saw a trend in games over the last few years that really turns me off to video games and that's the "tree" leveling system. Neverwinter online has it , and many others. I hope this game will have a feat system like neverwinter nights and the 3.0/3.5 systems had along with Dungeons and dragons online. Feats... Feats... Feats!!

Umm... Feats are basically just skills, while "tree" is just a representation style. If you want, you can draw pretty much any skill system, feats included, into a tree, each skill having its own prerequisites, Power Attack leading to Cleave leading to Great Cleave, etc. The "tree" is just more visual, and it's easier for you to get an overview of everything in it. Usually. On the other hand, if you don't like trees you can totally replace them with plain lists... This has no bearing on the system itself, or how anything works.

You said the "tree" leveling system turns you off but didn't explain what exactly the problem is here.

I have a whole lot of hopes, ideas and expectations for the game, but if there's one thing I hope gets implemented more than anything else it's proper itemisation.
Most of Larian's games feature randomly generated items with a handful of uniques thrown in here and there, resulting in very "Prefix weapon of Suffix" Diablo-esque loot that often is divided by different tiers represented by different colours. Personally I don't mind this since the unique weapons tend to stick out when compared to normal weapons due to their rarity, uniqueness and [generally] higher stats that ensure they remain useful far beyond the point where you obtain them.

However in Larian's most recent game, Original Sin 2, the stats on characters and items increase exponentially every time you level up. It's not noticeable during the beginning of the game, but once you reach the final third of the game (around level 14 and onwards) your items start to become noticeably weaker when you level up and if you don't seek out new equipment for your party you will quickly be very undergeared for the challenges ahead. Worse of all, this means that a random white level 20 butter knife you found in a random crate on a random street is significantly more powerful than a legendary level 19 sword.

One of the good parts about static item placements and the itemisation in BG2 (and many other video games for that matter) is that you can actively seek out certain pieces of equipment if you want to use them, plan on making a specific build on a subsequent playthrough and so on. I understand that from a game developer's perspective the thought of players rushing through certain parts of an area while ignoring all the quest and the like just to reach a piece of equipment might not be appealing, but I don't think a 'fix' to this non-existent problem should come at the cost of the natural feeling of progression.

I suppose I'm the only one who would like to see BG3 be influenced also a little bit by Planescape Torment and Hordes of the Underdark.

Other than that, a varied bestiary, my current favourites are:
- Beholders and their variations (Elder Orb, death tyrant)
- Demilich
- Golems: Mithril, demonflesh,
- Ulitharid, Alhoon

Quite rare wish: open to expansion packs for when Epic Level rules are released for 5E.

Greetings! I actually have a suggestion regarding one thing that I felt was sorely missing in both Baldur's Gate games: NPC and item randomization.
Given that I have played through the game more than 20 times I find it sad that after the third time I could already predict what sort of loot I would find in a given container or on a certain NPC. This is obvious if you watch most of the let's plays available on the net - the player knows the location of a certain item or NPC and thus metagames his strategy by heading in their direction. Another example: interesting NPCs like Tiax and Quayle are usually the least familiar to Baldur's Gate players as they appear at the same, set locations, late in the game. Adding a randomization element to the items and characters makes each playthrough exhilarating, especially when you choose permadeath mode - I can vouch for this since I have been working on a NPC/item randomization mod for BG1 for some years now and have already tasted some of the wonders this game mechanic (a staple of rougelikes) can provide.

The other thing I would like to suggest to the makers of the new Baldur's Gate - if they even read this, that is - is to make sure that they allow the player to drop items, just like in the old games (I haven't played DoS, but I believe this was also the case). This might be a thing that seems irrelevant for the gameplay and probably difficult and time-consuming to implement, but I found it frustrating in, say, Pillars Of Eternity, that you would have to carry all your items around (regardless of their weight and size) or send them off into oblivion.

I'm very pessimistic regarding the new installment in the series, as the bar is set real high and the priorities of game developers have radically changed since two decades go, but, as an ardent fan of the series, if the studio is honestly open to fan suggestions, I'm willing to dedicate my time to contribute.

Something I'd like to see for BG3 is random stats. I know most games these days go with point buy systems, but to me, a D&D game starts with rolling those dice to see how strong and smart I'm going to be. I'd even like to see Larian go the BG games one step further and let me roll my stats before I choose my class and race.

@Savuyar:
Like... only half of the sidequests and Containers are available in each playthrough, these are randomly rolled, and loot is not fixed but from a (or muliple, tiered) set table(s) that do(es) include a pity mechanism so it can't remove all daggers for my rogue companion and spam me with wands only? I would go for that. sure. It sounds like a major timesink to implement this just right (pity mechanism not too strong nor too weak, +1/+x and/or special bonuses should be rare by default as set by DnD 5e lore, this simplifies the table(s) a lot yay ) also add in some funny gimmicks/easter eggs for finding the cooler 10% of the containers if they are empty, making them never empty just variying in direct mechanical usefulness.

Characters naturally migrate and the bar is actually visited by 20-30 people, but rarely more than 7 at a time (more in the evening) quests being mutually exclusive but not too much on the nose for that, just a 2-3 part easter egg collection that explains how a quest you did made another quest unavailable (saved some chickens -> someone eats one, dies to salmonella -> some diary in an abandoned hut says "i wanted to get her a ring, but she is dead now" -> find the guy grieving at a tomb later, but not telling you the story. Guy just wants to be left alone. Damn thats grim. I am a monster. Chicken saving mutually exclusive with grilled (therefore not salmonella infected) chicken ending. Grilled chicken mutually exclusive with starving beggar quest. There, better!) damn that would be a hell of a lot of work. But In the Announcement they did check off overdelivery. And player agency i guess? Replay value: immense.

@BillyYank
Rolling your stats P&P Style is prone to some abuse in at least single player. If they can disincentivize scummy behavior I am all for it though. I just do know myself and... I'm scum.

If single-player, by definition there cannot be "abuse" or "scummy behavior" in how a person CHOOSES to play THEIR game.

fair and true.

Thanks for the reply Try2handing.

I would give you a better example, I just don't have the info in front of me. But Ill try to draw a picture. Lets take Neverwinter online. When you first get enough Xp to to level, you had two trees to look at both with one feat to start with . That's a total of two feats to choose from for starters. Now in dungeons and dragons online which runs off of the 3.0/3.5 dnd game system there are literally a dozen or more feats to choose from.

I agree with you in terms of power attack leds to cleave and so forth. Any way I like the 3.0 system of taking feats, for instance neverwinter nights, multi classing and such. My english is not great. So trying to articulate everything ...

Trees are just a way of demonstrating pre-requisites.
I guess Doomlord, you are asking for an effective tree to have many "bases" or single choices... Lots of options not requiring other feat pre-requisites.

I suspect that 5e rules will help deal with this a little bit.

Over at the Beamdog forums there's stories of players spending hours hitting "reroll". If someone's going to put in that much time and effort, then it seems to me that's less cheating and more like work. Me, I'm more an OCD hard-ass when it comes to stats. I roll mine in a spreadsheet, pick the set I want, and transfer them to the game with only racial adjustments. if I didn't roll a paladin this time, then I'm not playing a paladin today.

Random stats dont work very well in DnD.
Itemization in the way it works in OS2 probably wouldnt work without changing the core rules a lot.
I would hope for a lot of creative magic items that do unique things.

I personally enjoy throwing magic items at my players that have certain requirements within them. Like a shield that only applis its enhancement bonus as long as the wielder acts chivalrous.

As for ability trees: why?
Swordcoast legends tried this and people hated it. 5E might still have a lot of trap options, but its nowhere near as bad as 3.5 was in that regard.
As long as you make sure to not fuck up as badly as NWN in which Horse Riding was a skill without horses beeing implemented in any of the official modules, just stick wiht the PnP system.
Feats already pretty much work like DnD feats in OS2. I dont see why you would change that.

What i would change is giving all martials access to the battlemaster maneuvers

EDIT: Also give me a blood grapple rule already, for some reason grappling is just forgotten about in all DnD games, depsite it beeing a realy good tool in melee combat and it realy helps to alleviate the problem of "Fighter has nothing else to do than whack the goblin over his head with a large branche"

Factions would be awsome. Just like those in Planescape Torment. For example we could join the Harpers they are most recognizable, there was even prestige class in NWN if I remember correctly. The rest of them as I've checked were Order of the Gauntlet, Emerald Enclave, Lords Alliance and Zhentarims.
Each individual faction could provide us with faction only quests through entire main campagin, some NPC's would react dependently of our choice, special rewards, faction alignment etc. What you guys think?

First of all, CONGRATULATIONS on getting BG3!!

So, I have played Divinity Original Sin (1) from start to finish and loved it! I got DOS 2 for Christmas (2018) and as of now I just started playing it and I have to say, its very frustrating!

What do I mean, well, there are just TOO many character choices/options to pick and if a error is made, no way to fix that till end of Act 1.
It literary gives me a headache to try and pick a class that can survive Act 1, now maybe I'm a bad player, so be it but a game being played on normal should not give anyone a headache in trying to decide what roles each character should play and trying to get a survivable party together.

Im all in for a open world, be what you want to be , yata yata yata, its all good especially for game PR but we need to be realistic, its a game for people to have FUN
I cant tell you how many times I read, "I had to start all over" so many times because of bad party composition/creation, (hell, I bet even the developers were overwhelmed in trying to keep everything straight in their heads/game). Do you have statistics of how many people actually finished the game?

I watched some of BG/BG2 EE edition and I noticed that it has an AI that can be assigned to each character so that you don't have to micro manage everything, I hope that stays in BG3.

So, bottom line, dont make the game so overwhelming that the dev's are confused, players are confused and everyone gets a headache (yes they buy the game, you get the money but are they being served well?)

On normal difficulty , no one should be confused or get a headache.

The story and exploration (loot yes, everyone likes "shiny toys") should be the main driver of the game (RPG), in my view there should be limited character creation for characters that are in the game already (party members). Only ONE character should have the full scale of character creation, from looks to states), everyone else should have rolls already assigned and ready to go, you use them or not, that's the players choice and every party member should should have a AI that can be assigned to them based on their roll/talents (as in the BG1/2 EE)

I'm still playing DOS2 and I'm getting there but its a slog (just got my collar removed), my party is not op but I am NOT starting over no matter what.

Dont make the Acts so uneven, it should be a even flow act1, 2, 3 (that's if you have Acts in BG3), DON'T expect the player to "steal" everything to get ahead (like in Act 1 of DOS2 and then have everything just about handed to them in Act2/3)

Just my thoughts, if you don't agree, that's fine, I probably did not fully explain my frustration with ACT1 of DOS2, I just hope that BG3 will be "better", I know you can do it Larian!

The BG games had a very painterly style to the areas. Even though crude by current standards, they really were gorgeous. I'm not sure how that would sort of feeling would be imparted with today's graphics. But I think done extremely well, I might prefer something like that to striving for realism.

The BG1 and 2 soundtracks were also first rate. That music got etched into my imagination.

And the combination of great NPCs that were so perfectly cast by their voice actors was about as good as you could ever hope for.

Finally I want the same (or greater) loving attention to detail for the lore of the setting that the BG1 and 2 had.

I'm aware that combat is probably going to feel a bit different perhaps, because of 5E. But combat in the Infinity Engine was genius. This is a very high bar. Please don't screw the pooch on this.

hotmac if you cant do anything wrong, you also cant do anything right.
DnD is noteable for having a lot of trap options, OS2 is much more forgiving in that regard.
Personally i think getting rid of options to make it harder to fuck up is... not in the spirit of RPGs. I can see something like a "guide" for leveling up, NWN2 had somehting like auto picking options for your build but half of the time the game picked things that were garbage, but still, the idea isnt bad.

Have somehting that guides new players by the hand, but not removing options from the game, the older games also didnt do this. And when i look at modern RPGs, one of the most common complaint is that they are too casual.

As for Fort Joy, i personally love the openness of fort joy and i wish the other two acts were also like that. It would be even better if the world wasnt so static and would react to what you do. But im a big fan of simulation in video games, Baldurs Gate 3 probably isnt the right game to push in that direciton as theres a certain expectation from CRPGs that the Player is what guides the world not hte other way around.

I just don't see how having to consult a spread sheet or spend hours "researching" options for a NPC character to build them correctly for your party is fun!
The most fun I have had with RPGs were DOS 1, Witcher series and Horizon Zero Dawn and (most recently).

I like the idea of multi-class, certainly for your main character but if other NPC party members had that it would be fun also.

I guess we all want different things, I want fun without the spread sheets others want a "challenge", its possibly for both to have that without the headaches. its called "easy", "normal" and "hard" or you can add "super hard" for those uber RPG players among us.

The main thing is for things to be "common sense", yes you would need to know some basics of the class, when to take wisdom over intellect as an example.

well, this is all fun to discuss but in the end Larian will do what Larian does.

Oh, one other thing Larian, STOP REINVENTING THE INVENTORY AND CRAFTING SYSTEM's!!!

The spreadsheet's faster than rolling dice by hand, which was what I was doing before I wrote it. The point though is I much rather roll my stats as the first step to creating my character, before I choose my race and class, the way the Good Gygax intended.

As for a crafting system, I hope they leave it out all together. Brewing a potion or building a magic item in the middle of a dungeon is just silly. If they implement strongholds or something for higher levels, I could see it as something you do during downtime.

Congrats Larian, I am quite happy you got this I.P

Suggestions

Lengthy item descriptions and lore for magical items. It's a lot cooler finding the ancient sword of kick ass when its a part of the world. Have npcs comment on it. Have rivals attempt to steal it. This is something i missed greatly in kingmaker.

Minimum random loot. The loot in DOS2 just felt like number upgrades.

When dealing with gods or beings of incredible power please use appropriate gravitas. Why would a gods talk with the player? They have bigger and better things to do. If they do communicate, doing it through signs or a natural event. A river turning into blood. A white stag walking and directing the player to a goal. A symbolic dream.

Do evil right and give them proper motivation to be where they are at.

Robust level and campaign editor. It would be awsome if there was a d&d video game engine that had new modules released for it and created by the community, like nwn.

Turn based combat. You guys know how to do this well. Rtwp multiplayer will be too chaotic and counter intuitive. Considering the release on stadia im not to worried about this.

Conservative/realistic art direction. I thought the DOS2 elves looked weird. Their clothes were really out there.

On evil: let me be mild evil.
Let me do something for my own gain, let me exploit others.

Evil doesnt mean literaly kicking dogs, evil doesnt mean murdering innocents.
Evil can simply mean selfishness or making heartless descisions.

The biggest problem Larian faces in making BG3 is their own hubris. Being told repeatedly by gushing and fawning reporters and critics that their game is the "awesomest game ever made," even though this is far from true, may result in Larian actually believing that BS and saying to themselves: "We already made the awesomest game ever, so why not just do the same exact thing again?"

In creating BG3, Larian would be very well served by talking to and sincerely listening to people who DON'T gush and fawn all over D:OS2 and who have critical things to say about that game.

well said. if you watched kotaku interview, that journalist consistently been pushing his own request to sven telling him please be turn-based. larian already made 2 turn-based games and seems rather successful with it. seeing that their whole fanbase were turn-based purist as well as the game highly pitched for co-op and multiplayer (where the original baldur's gates were greatly loved for it's singleplayer and combat) and DnD i afraid i'm kind of expecting to see a DOS2 clone with Baldur's Gate on it. If you watched some of Sven interviews (i watched them all), Sven were saying it's not a DOS2 clone simply for a few things: DND, Class-Based compared Classless ,Baldur's Gate settings and the serious/gritty visual representation of the trailer. To me these alone cannot cover it as not being a divinity clone.

What they are planning really has me worried as a Baldur's Gate fan. It will be perfectly fine with me if they use another title such as Baldur's Gate Online instead of calling it Baldur's Gate 3. It's just simply isn't BG3 as it has no continuation of the Bhaalspawn story and BIG possibility it's not RTwP.

man you people are salty

The Bhaalspawn story ended with Murder in Baldur's Gate Pen and Paper adventure that Wizard of the Coast released.

https://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/murder-baldurs-gate

But that doesn't mean Bhaal doesn't have a hand in it. We will have to wait and see.

how about a cycle of day and night in the game because have spells that work only after one day when spend
At launch our later make a multiplayer like neverwinter nights most inovative multiplayer that i already see
Dont make much puzzles( how we see in game os larian) this turn game slow and boring
Improve, ALOT how we find our companions. The form that we make a team was bad in dos and dos 2, folow good exemples of BG 1,2 and games of obsidian.
Reach at epic lvls.

Yarp!

no real idea what is meant by puzzles, the OS games dont have a lot of them, unless you mean the path of blood in 2, i guess that coutns as a puzzle, but you can skip the puzzle part by talking to NPCs some more.
Finding companions is somehting well have to see how they do it. Sven said he wants to focus on the party and as a multiplayer part wehre everyone is a relevant character.

The question is if companions will fill the "Origins" that oculd be played by PCs or not. In OS2 this is the case, in BG it would feel strange tbh.
But if this is th ecas,e then it is required for the NPCs to be there from the start.

Epic levels is... eh.
DnD kind of falls apart at epic levels.
If anyhting, leave it to an expansion, MOTB did high level stuff pretty well but i think it did that because it was a large expansion and you had almost an entire game in which you started from a prety high level already

i play all sort of games since 80 decade and i never saw soo many puzzles like dos 2, if game have 100 hour you spend 4 hour playng indeed and 96 doing puzzles(our looking for key in map), i play i know. bg 2 have 1 our 2 puzzles brcause of that the game flow much better than dos 2, larian need learn about this
Other think that bg2 do better than any other game.. is you fear h=who have more power than you, if you see a lich i know that is a matter of time thatt you will die if you isnt at a high lvl, who dont remember the iconic lich kangax of bg 2 ? I belive other think that should back from bg series is spells hit kill , like imprisionament, petrify, and death spells, you fail in save and is game over
Sorry my english isnt my language mother.

Yes! To all of those!

And that castle would be an amazing location!!

This is actually a very important point, and Larian's biggest disadvantage at the moment. They are being treated by everyone like the gods of rpgs, which inevitably makes them feel like they know the best about everything. It looks like they will apply all these changes and simplifications to D&D mechanics and more specifically to Baldur's Gate, disguised under 'modernisation' but actually we all know it will be only dumbing down so that average 10 year old boy with the attention span of a dog does not get frustrated in the first 3 seconds he doesn't get what he wants.

There's a reason why Baldur's Gate series is considered the most successful rpg series of all time, and a reason why still a huge number of people still play it instead of many newer RPGs, Divinity included. Assuming things that worked in Divinity will work in Baldur's Gate by default is the biggest mistake Larian seems to have been in progress of making, based on the information revealed in the interviews. Wizards of the Coast approving these changes still does not confirm they are in the right way either, because Wizards of the Coast has a different agenda of its own. They want D&D to be more popular, and think making it more aligned with current game trends will provide that. But actually, it will make it lose its uniqueness and authenticity.

I can already foresee the huge amount of backlash that will follow the release of Baldur's Gate III. It doesn't matter the amount of graphical improvements they will make, they are irrelevant compared to the feel and atmosphere of the game. My only wish is that I am wrong, or they come down to earth and start listening to the actual fans of Baldur's Gate series, not just their own Larian worshippers.

Larians are treated like that because they are the only developer who managed to make a CRPG and actually have it turn out good.
The only other ones i can think of are pathfinder kingmaker and shadowrun returns dragonfall.
And those werent nearly as much of a commercial success.

And im sorry waht simplifications. DnD is an incredible simple system. 2E was even more simplistic.
And no, THAC0 is not complex, people just got confused that lower numbers are better. BG didnt even have opportunity attacks and you are going to tell me modern RPGs are more casual than that?
Skyrim is maybe, but we arent talking about Skyrim here, we are talking about OS2, Pathfinder Kingmaker , PoE, Age of Decadence, Shadowrun and the like. Almost all of these games added new things without removing old things.

You people keep beeing salty about..... larian for some reason. Just admit it, you are a nostalgic Boomer and no matter who makes this, you will always be dissatisfied.
You will never be happy because you think it will tarnish your memory of an old game that realy wasnt as good as you think it was.

AS for WOTC: what they want is a good game. WOTC hasnt made a lot of DnD games and those that it made all failed. Thats because the companies they had at hand didnt know what to do, they all tried to recreate baldurs gate. I mean Beamdog is literaly a studio who did nothing but rework baldurs gate.
Turns out, living in the past does not work.
And if they would hire Obsidian to do it, and Obsidian would make Baldurs gate 3 in the infinity engine or their new engine thats basically the same, youd still hate it because its new.
And other people would hate it because its not innovative. Just like nobody liked siege of dragonspear.
Because nobody needs a Baldurs Gate addon today, especialy not such a lazy one that doenst improve the game at all.

Just a reminder to keep it polite, please. Making assertions about other forum members tends to generate more heat than light. And it makes the mods grumpy.

Exactly. All very true (pathetic Larian sycophants not withstanding). If every single person who bought D:OS2 buys this game (because they justifiably believe it is a D:OS2 clone in BG packaging), and a few other D&D fans also buy the game (because they get taken in by the Baldur's Gate title), it will be a colossal failure for Larian as a AAA game. So Larian has to dumb down the game from core D&D 5e rules to draw in millions of casual gamers who are typically turned off by the very mentioning of "RPG" which they interpret as hard/complicated/boring. And this is well beyond the dumbing down that Larian did with its D:OS games with their cartoonish setting, superficial characters, simplistic rules and mechanics, silly "humor," and gimmicky "environmental reactivity" (Oh look! An oil barrel, perfectly placed! Let's blow it up. Boom! HAHAHA!).

I could not DISAGREE with the above statement! RPGs are not dumbed down/boring/cartoonish or with superficial characters, is Red Dead Redemption1/2 boring/dumbed down or how about The Witcher? And there is noting wrong with humor or any other side foolishness in a game, in fact that gives it some character.

And as far as "easy" DOS2 is not easy and if anyone says it is than god help them for no game will satisfy that person (in WOW they call that an "elitist jerk" and WOW talk about cartoonish)

I love RPS for all the that they offer, great story, humor, fighting/battle, silliness or whatever the devs put in so that its not just a straight line to the story.

Yes, once the player finishes the game, it can get boring quickly (no replayability) but otherwise, RPGs are the best.

Reading your comment makes me ask, what in the hell do you want in a game, please gives us all a list.


Regards

Where did I say any of this towards RPGs? I said these things specifically towards the D:OS games.

[/quote]
Where did I say any of this towards RPGs? I said these things specifically towards the D:OS games.[/quote]

Im playing DOS2 right now (late, yes) and I'm having fun, Fort Joy was tough for me as I made an error in class selection but I told myself that I would not restart and I made it out of the fort. The game is very relaxing/fun and frustrating at times to play.

I don't think that DOS2 was as well constructed as far as class selection (once you where in the game) as DOS1. The one thing I hate/hated was when you met your possible companion and had to select their role, there was no way for you to know what stats they would have (more or less) unless you went online and looked it up somewhere, I don't believe that should have been designed that way! (that's where I screwed up, have two casters with Hydro and Air), you should have been able to see the stats in game before picking a role for them.

I think the DOS games have a lot of replayability to them, the story would be the same but at least you can roll play many different characters, unlike lets say in Red Dead or The Witcher

But to each his own, I do hope that they stay true to the BG "style" and not try to make it like DOS games, I do want voice acting in the game, without the VA I would have not played DOS1 or 2, which is why I wont play Pillars of Eternity, I play on console and I don't want to go blind reading the screen for xhours per play, also, VA adds a certain ambience to the game, narration and NPC's talking.

So, if I misunderstood your commentary, well, its a short thread and everyone does not get their point across precisely, I'm sure you and others probably wont get the "jest" of what I'm saying as well.

We will see what Larian comes up with, a lot of these threads are kind of pointless because they are going to do what they are going to do.

Happy gaming

- castle system sth like in NWN2,
- meaningful romances not tainted with SJW bullshit and political correctness, ahh Viconia...
- make elves look georgeus more Tolkien like style (I'm writing this because I saw what you did to elves in DOS2, despite different promotional materials, you want sth ugly you have half-orcs, gnomes and some humans:),
- if you're going to include tieflings and aasmiars make them look more like in 3rd D&D edition and not like 4th...
- companions quests with meaningful endings and consequences in campaign gameplay,
- surprise me (escape from tarrasque scenario, divine interventions, vampire / werewolf system, succubus hidden under your companion skin, whatever!
- references from previous games,
- if you worship god make it count, dialogues, NPC interactions, privileges in their temples, etc.
- make elven city, seriously I didn't saw even single elven city in any D&D based game like wtf? send us to Evermeet or sth... (wood elves doesn't count),
- subraces?

I just want to add:

• Murder mystery quest - there was quest in district which lead you to the murder.
  Murder mystery could be imagined in very interesting way involving solving puzzles, getting trapped in a plane and escape it, finding the clues for someone framed,
  and solving big conspiracy behind it.
• Finding strange items which are cursed trap doors to another realm. Player would need to find his way back.
• Puzzle boss design - in boss arena there are couple sources of power which render boss immortal.
  Player needs to find a way to deactivate or destroy those sources in order to fight the boss.

I would suggest that thief gameplay should get improved a lot.

Hide in shadows, sneak behind A.I., laying better traps would need improvement to get more dynamic and interesting thief gameplay.

I'm much more a fan of BG1 than BG2 (or more specifically BG1 with SCS and other mods installed), but one thing I did really find fun was using the traps skill with thieves in BG2. I realize you can do it in BG tutu and BGEE, but unless you have like 3 thieves or something you have to spend skill points early on in more basic stufff like Pick Locks, Find Traps, Hide in Shadows, and Move Silently (although I've often wondered if I'm wasting points by puttting them into both HiS and MS when they both do the same thing).

Anyway, I need to look at how 5e handles thieiving skills. But it's heartening to read that 5e hearkens back to 2e AD&D in many ways.

Edit: Just took a gander at the 5e SRD, didn't see setting traps on the list of skills for Rogues/Thieves. Oh well! Maybe they can incorporate it nevertheless.

Just curious but what kind of SJW bullshit do you mean? Like going over the top in asking for censent in tripplet, Romance mixed in with Intersectional feminist leactures, and so on? Because Larian Studios doesn't seem the type. The closest to that would be all romancible Companions will likely be bisexual, which from a practical perpective makes sense, more bang for the buck, and the Blessed of Corellon Larethian optional Elf Racial Feature that allows the Elf to change Genders during a long rest. Personally I think that was neat. And before any misunderstandings I'm an MRA not an SJW.

We need dragon lady in the game

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/XBGrky

no please we dont need Monstergirls.

As for SJW bullshit, Larian is indeed not the type. I think thats a knee jerk reaction because of the Companions Beamdog added to the EE, many who have been considered to be overly political.
Shoehorning a fucking gamergate joke of all things into it didnt help either (when was that again? 3 years prior? maybe more?)

+1

Given that some Spells have a different degree of damage depending on what level you cast them at. A cooldown system would not work. Also you can cast the same spell over and over again until you have now more slots available. You can cast Magic missile as many times as you have spell slots. If you take away from how the rules handle spells is it really D&D anymore.

Part of the way spells are chosen to be cast and what level they are cast at is all part of the D&D experience. So I vote on keeping spell slots in. When I go to cast a spell. I just click what spell slot I want to use from those that are available for use. Casting magic missile at 9th level is what I choose (or have to use because it is the only slot left). It is all about player agency.

where did sven say theyll get rid of spell slots and introduce cooldowns?
i did not hear about htat at all.

That would be because he said nothing like that.

called it.

Just more hateboner and fear mongering

Must Have List
1. Tactical Combat: If you can mindlessly repeat the same attack pattern and win it doesn't require tactics. BG2 had a great experience where the priests of the Blind Beholder kept whupping my party. I searched through the character's spell-lists for some game changer and found the druid's bugswarm would silence multiple enemies. That one change flipped an overwhelming opponent into a vulnerable opponent.
2.Good quest design flow with multiple ways to enter, end, and progress through a quest. https://i.imgur.com/mAENC.jpg
3. Reactivity. Even small touches of polish like Deus Ex having JC Denton's boss scold him if you run into the women's bathroom made the world feel alive.
4. Leverage Character Stats outside combat/rolls. The Sith Lords had a lot of speech content options which were unlocked based on the intelligence stat; Bloodlines had dialogue exclusive to Malkavians which made for some of the most memorable scenes (talking to the tv, talking to the stop sign), Fallout 2's low-intelligence playthrough was funny, while the character was too dumb to understand most quests, he understood the meaning of a crude brahmin drawing on the town's bulletin board.
5. Many playthrough paths > longer main story playtime. Data from games like Days Gone's main story completion show less than half of players beating the game. ME2's official release on the same data years-out was also 4x% of players beat the game. Better to have a shorter single-playthrough duration and more character-build-derived content to reward repeated playthroughs. That way casual players see the whole main story and gamers get to see different content depending on their choices, like in The Witcher 2 where the 2nd act of the game is completely different based on who you leave the starting-area with.


Do Not Want
Preached to from the Frankfurt School.

man, i sure see a lot of people getting burned by modern western RPGs.
As for shorter playthoruhs, i like long campaigns, btu then im also someone who plays through games multiple times, for example one single player one multiplayer.

but generaly for RPGs, i do like longievity.

Not nerfing any class by not implementing key features.
Just imagine how rogues would play without cunning action or sorcerer without metamagic.

Not nerfing any feats also.
Sharpshooter and Lucky are OP, but if players want to use, let'em. Choice is always better.

i disagree.

Weird Stronghold Raids

There could be weird Strongholds never seen before like the ones of (demi)liches, vampire lords,...
Party could go to raid the Stronghold with interesting fights.
Some Strongholds could be located in unworldly planes.


Trap books and trinkets

Given the book as gift, once opened, you're trapped in a plane. The book was meant to eliminate you by trapping in a maze. You have to find exit portal to a plane and find out who wants to eliminate you and why.

Boss fights could have, let's say 4 stages, in which they have special animations and different strategies for player to fight them.
Health bar could be split in these 4 stages so that player knows when new strategy round starts.




In DOS2, health healing icon was regular modern health sign. I think in such fantasy theme, healing icon should be more exotic.

I wish monsters are reimagined and rather scary and grotesque. More sublime and menacing.

There is the spider queen, medusa (woman with snakes for hair), liches, yuan ti ...

Every game needs Monstergirls, but this is the Forgotten Realms, the raunchiest D&D setting. At minium there will be Tiefling women and female Dragon Sorcerers. And there is likely just the beginning.

my dude im all for having sexy women
Just not straight up monstergirls /tg/ is just wrong about that particular thing

/tg/?

I'm assuming a chan. In which case I probably don't want to know.

/tg/ is the traditional games board on 4chan, focusing on stuff like DnD, warhammer, MTG and the like.
its also got a stupid obsession with monster girls.

An obsession with monstergirls is never stupid.

Monstergirls can be great if they are more than just mindless eyecandy. Fall-from-Grace (PS:T), Freya (FFIV), M'Khiin (SoD), etc.

There are actually only few thing which I'd love to see implemented in the game:
-A housing or a stronghold system which would allow us to have our own base of operation. It can be similar to Lady Vengeance but I'd like to see more interactions between the people inside of it,
-Interesting romances with companions. I actually like the romances in Divinity Original Sin 2 but I'd love to see the romances being much longer with plot twists. Maybe something similar to Dragon Age Origins? This game had good relationships if I remember correctly,
-Many dialogue options and choices which influence the world around us. I think that this is one the most important aspects of the game which has to be taken care of. Can you imagine an RPG without good conversations? I doubt it,
-Alive world and by saying that I mean seeing the people in the town react to the environment, react to the player's class, race and react to our companions.

I think these are the things which I would like to see in Baldur's Gate 3.

Screw romances, I want to see more pump them then dump them relationships, flings and bootie calls, hiring sex workers.

Yeah, so do I! I've recently hit puberty so I need cheap titillation in muh video games that in no way advances the plot or makes it memorable before I pluck up the courage to say hi to a guh.. guh.. girl. Now, some explicit content can be a valuable plot device (there was some in BG2 but it certainly wasn't explicit) but I think most adults prefer stable and long-lasting relationships because they're more rewarding.. just like a well-written romance.

Subjective Suggestions BG3

I would love for Larian to really work on/with the story, one aspect I have felt where dos1 and dos2 is lacking. I loved the trailer especially "Gather your party" tagline. Could have done without the spoiling of the mindflayers.

Also absolutely no scaling of course.

Static loot or in the very least everything except randon mobs drop specifik loot.

No generic crap whatsoever do the opposite of dragon age 3 and pillars of eternity. I loved dos1 an also dos2 but i did notice the stats changed from very intricate and interesting to -> +5% damage rendering 2 attributes completely insignificant and also not very interesting...

Splendid, I applaud you!

Wow, judgemental much, I'm not saying they can't have romances, its just cool if they have other relationship options. Hell if we want realistic perhaps they can add the part where we . get hit with Alimony for the rest of our lives.

Since I accidentally double posted I'll just add from your post history, no one actually believes you reach puberty yet, if your going lie make it believable.

Stop snarking at each other please. There's a vacant spot on the naughty stair.

Excellent idea, champ! Who says a role-playing game shouldn't have an educational streak? Considering that many parents fail to teach their children not to ruin their lives with ill-fated relationships, entertainment media could step up to the plate at the very least.

Thank you kindly, my man!

Also, It would be wonderful if we could actually roll our characters again.. at least as an alternative. I know the whole people will just roll until they have top stats but I think people should be aloud to do that.

Wishes for paladin's and other armors

Wow, I have never seen so many horribly designed armours in one place.
Hopefully they stick to a more realistic design.

the chinese should be forbidden from creating fantasy art...

I'd be happy if their government would stop pursuing an Orwellian dystopia on a global scale.

these looks really great to me.

hahahha,,, as a Chinese, I have to agree with you. Most design especially in game field are trash, totally trash. There is no art at all, our society and culture are sick now.If you are interested, i'll give u some link to show the so-called "masterpiece" .

I cant tell u how much i hate the government, it bind the government and the party to the homeland to abuse people's patriotism. Not to mention the despicable behavior that they loot resources from Africa just like old Europe，and great scale corruption. Many many officers purchase villa in Los Angeles(Beverly hills,Santa Monica ) and Canada.

These are good designs. Better even. Baldur''s gate has that curved pointy look.

talking about logo design.. the bg3 logo based on the mindflayers? they look pretty bad. i like the design of baldur's gate 2 quite alot.

To be fair, Africa's biggest issue is its demographics i.e. totally unsustainable population growth (it is a huge food importer) which is now spilling over to other continents. Low-trust societies that are plagued by incessant tribal warfare and have never invented the wheel or a written language are very easy to take advantage of (unfortunately, general intelligence is about 50% hereditary according to Plomin's research iirc so not everyone can be an astronaut without changing the population's breeding patterns that is) but I agree with you that their resources are not essential to our survival. Frankly, it's too much trouble if we're supposed to be their caretakers in return. Who's going to put a stop to China's ransacking of the continent, you might ask? The West is morally bankrupt and its elites firmly believe greed is a virtue. Heck, if I recall France is still extracting resources from there. Don't forget to make lots of popcorn because there are no brakes on this train apparently.

I'd say that about the American Government as well, just look at the American back coup in Bolivia that overthrew a democratically elected government there.

I love the BG3 logo.

No argument there. I call them high-tech Somali pirates when I feel like bashing them.

How dare you insult Somali Pirates like that 😋

haha,,I see, they are birds of a feather.

If illithids are confirmed in Baldur's Gate II, so maybe we will get to see their homeworld, canonical Far Realm as a location? That's would be a great and original idea. Also, we should definitely get at least one brainstealer dragon. Dragons were at every Larian's game, with exception of BD, after all.

there was a thread about the mindflayer world in FR up a while ago, basically theres a variety of places mindflayers can come from and several of them could in theory possess a nautiloid

Well, forgotten realms wiki's claims that mind flayers. or at least their ancestor, originate from Far Realm. And while we touched upon the issue of information availability on wiki's, you should definitely leave your mark in history by registering on divinity fandom wiki and help out with filling it with information from Divinity game series. There also a rumor going on that if you will create 3000 pages with content on this wiki, you will get real life psionic powers. But no one managed it so far to prove it or disprove it.

Back to Baldur Gate 3, would be nice if players will get an opportunity to become llithids themself.

The videogame with the best armor design so far is Mordhau

MORDHAU ARMOR

Many aesthetics which have become standard in fantasy armor designs: spikes, serrated edges, upscaled pauldrons, glowing bits, floating parts, skulls everywhere, extraneous details like many belts, excessive ornamentation, proportions from WoW's Samwise who got his from Joe Madureira who got his from anime, look silly at best -not cool. Some attempts at, "mature" design have also failed, as seen in Game of Thrones, where the color palette's reduced to black and gray.

In this context, rendering model meshes, textures, and other game assets from real-world references is refreshing, iconoclastic, and outstanding. The market doesn't want for more anime-derived goofyness with crystals. Even some of the most popular recent animes, like Goblin Slayer and Vinland Saga, have made a point of depicting more realistic armor. Even the less down-to-earth manga like Berserk still have a baseline of realism with the gear for most of the men in the armies so when a unique armor is wild-looking, like the Berserk armor, it's special. Likewise one of the most popular jrpgs, Dark Souls, successfully used more realistic armor like a bucket helm.

Fantastical armor can be cool if it does something more rarely-seen, like armor made of flesh

FLESH ARMOR


I'm not suggesting gamers would prefer a 1:1 adaptation of future-armor into a medieval style. My point's if an asset's supposed to be fantastical then make it weird and other-worldly, not the same metal with gems added.

The problem with realistic Armour is that it rarely looks as cool as fantasy Armour, and given it's a game and not real life, I want to look cool.

A handy way to fix armor is to make everyone in the game female - that way you don't have to design any given fantasy games' track record! Plot armor is invisible yet impenetrable much to men's chagrin.

Mordhau absoluteley does NOT have the best armors holy crap.
Mordhau just fell for that "Muh realism" meme, while also borking up proportions.

BELIEVEABLE, yet not realistic, designs are almost always superior: see Dark Souls armors or For Honor, both of those blow Mordhau out of the water
"muh realism" is a blight upon the fantasy genre and recent trends like game of thrones (Despite not beeing realistic at all) have facilltated this

Also it is ridiculous to equate WoW with "fantasy" style.
The Warcraft style is outdated and basically non existant in contemporary fantasy, its basically a strawman from a bygone age

I like realistic swords and object on moral grounds to the sort of things that would cause more injury to the person actually holding it, but then again I also like impractical shoes. So I'm kinda torn on the subject.

I agree, but it was people whining about boob plate armour and chain mail bikinis that drove the realistic armour push. Booooo.

Like it or not, gaming is no longer a pastime exclusive to men so it's little wonder to me that some women don't want their avatars to be portrayed as Ms. Fan Service. I know it's fantasy but things like chain mail bikinis in combat simply prove too much even for my best efforts at suspension of belief.

because only the strawman coutns doesnt it?
Because there is no option that is believeable but not realistic.

Also
>women
its that old argument hat just doesnt hold up to reality.
Play an MMORPG with a woman and look at her avatar. People tend to create fantasies for themselves, for a large poriton of women, beeing attractive is one.

And to add to that, it still is mostly a hobby for men, look at Svens post from way back.
Theres no point trying to chase "the woman audience".
Those women that always liked Fantasy RPGs will continue liking fantasy RPGs, those women that dont like fantasy RPGs will not start liking fantasy RPGs because you populate them with Disgusting Hags
Recent Western RPGs should be enaugh proof.

Well, where I commute I don't see that many women wearing chain mail bikinis and I don't think it's a self-esteem issue. Regardless, I'm not in favor of making female characters look like "disgusting hags" as you put it although I'm not very keen on this non sequitur positing that attraction is only attained through nakedness. It's mostly combat situations that become hilarious to me when certain characters forgo protection for stylishness (and there isn't any magic or spellcasting involved either). It's less of a bother when you're in town or at a pub for sure.

theres a middle road and its what most stylized fantasy tends to take.
Also, relay they dont?
Id say modern fashion gets pretty close to chainmail bikini levels when its apropriateley warm.

I for one wait for mens fashion to catch up with RPG costumes still, but the Leif Nelson brand seems to be catching the drift

That could be true. I haven't been to the beach for nearly a decade. It's up to Larian how they want to go about it after all. Vanity and partial nudity aren't deal-breakers for me but female characters with actual character development (not very realistic, eh? hehe just kidding) are certainly more memorable.

I'll breakdown a few

Give proof realism has become the industry-standard aesthetic in armor and weapons.

Bucket-helms are helmets from real life. Armets are helmets from real life.

You admit GoT is not realistic but simultaneously reference GoT as evidence realism's in bad taste. These premises contradict. Given the truth: GoT's armor designs are not based off real-world armor; they can't be an example of designs based off real-world armor.

WoW is not only a fantastical (meaning not based on anything from the real world) art style, it has become the default aesthetic for fantasy games.

WoW's age is irrelevant. WoW's pertinent because it's the most influential art style on the gaming industry in the fantasy genre.

A flat lie. Most games with fantasy characters like DOTA or LoL or [choose a chinese or korean mobile game] are approximate to the anime -> Joe Maduiera -> Samwise style.

What games do you have in mind when you write, "contemporary fantasy"?

A strawman argument is when someone invents a bad position, attributes it to the other party, and dismantles it, in an attempt to convince the audience the bad position belongs to his opponent and trick his opponent into defending (and thereby adopting) a weak premise.

Warcraft's art style is real. I didn't write, "WoW is Sordak's favorite art style". I wrote, ~"WoW's art style became the default aesthetic in fantasy videogames".
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It sounds like you enjoyed For Honor and Dark Souls and have conflated them with your vaguely-defined personal aesthetics. You don't like WoW and so want to disassociate it from the games you like. It's disruptive to attempts to analyze objectively to bring-in the baggage of your subjective preferences. To say in essence, "I like [Game A]. I dislike [Game B]. I like [Art Style A]. I dislike [Artstyle B]. Game A must have Artstyle A because I like it. Game B must have Artstyle B because I dislike it."

You and I both don't rate our games entirely by how they look. I can say there have been games I've played which looked great -but sucked. I have played other games which looked fugly -but were great fun. I am sure you would agree with me, you have lived the same experience.

There were fun silly parts in the Divinity games. Wearing a literal bucket for a helmet made the game more amusing. Little goblin-guy with the cartoonish-big bomb in the first game was also entertaining.

Please don't misunderstand me. When I say, "realistic" I don't mean, "serious" as in no-fun zone. Larian has made lighthearted fun fair in the past. I'm sure Baldur's Gate 3 will have its' lighthearted fun and we will both enjoy it

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As for what women wear, please don't misconstrue my enjoyment of real-world armor as advocacy for dressing women as men. I appreciate the confusion because people who do advocate such a position know it's indefensible and so couch their meaning in, "realism" as an agreeable-sounding euphemism to trick the unwary.

In real life men fight wars. A depiction in-touch with reality would therefore not include women in combat roles. Mordhau again offers an example of realism.

Liars will disingenuously pretend normal men and women are an assault on the features of a fantasy setting which depart from real life: magic, monsters, etc. The naked truth is such deviation from the default functions as a means to convince people of the lie the sexes are interchangeable. As Bernays might say, if a statement is repeated continuously, through videogames, youtube, netflix, spotify, etc. then a % of the population will become a chorus parroting this statement regardless of the veracity of the statement.

Instead of repeating such a line, I say the same here and now as in the Re: Art design for female characters thread

I think they could take a note from Star Trek Online in reguards to character appearance, high degree of character appearance customization (more then any game I've seen before or since), where you can make a character a gorgeous skimpy outfit wearing Orions, or an Armoured up fat, scarred, ugly Nausicaan. Then again they say playing space barbie is the real end game for Star Trek Online.

I remain unconvinced by the "women don't play video games" assertion, though me saying "most of my gamer friends are also women" isn't any more convincing than saying most seem to be men on the basis of one's own experiences; but I recall various surveys indicating it's closer to parity than sometimes assumed. Though as ever the devil's in the detail, I dare say.

There is a conspicuous lack of female gamers on a lot of forums, similarly to how there're fewer "older" gamers in spite of the fact that video games have been a popular pastime since the '70s. I facepalmed when someone said without irony, "we're the first generation to play video games" and thinking, I'm more than twice your age and we weren't the first.

I suppose in both cases I'm reminded of e.g. "women in IT" or rather the lack thereof. It wasn't always so and when I started off, we had a near 50:50 mix of people at my employer in what was one of several fairly large teams. We weren't unusual in that respect. What started to put women off wasn't a lack of interest nor a "macho culture": it was toxic management which started to grow out of control through the '90s and has never got better.

"Toxic": there's that word. It's why I don't bother with the Steam forums, for instance. I know whenever a search takes me there it's going to be two or three posts before I see someone being an arse and as a result I often don't bother even trying to find information there let alone participate. And that sort of environment tends to distil down very quickly to include only those with the endurance and willpower to bother with it; increasingly large swathes eventually conclude "life's too short" and move on. Young guys do have more endurance than most of the population, whether through genetics or social conditioning, so ultimately that probably explains it, especially when the ripple-effect of the respective demographics has time to develop.

As for bikini armour, as far as I'm concerned, Boris Vallejo's style has its place and that place isn't everywhere. I don't dislike it but equally I'm also not a huge fan. It's not some stereotype feminist miserableism, just personal preference. Same reason I feel no inclination to parade around in a bikini IRL, which isn't (just) down to... well, I did title my avatar "fat old goth", but even if I had a much shapelier figure and was 20 years younger I still wouldn't. Some people like that style, whether for themselves or others, other people are "meh".

So that's pretty much my view of video games. Actually I do like some realism, such as with swords, as mentioned: I like them to look like actual, real swords, but at the same time nice examples thereof. They can be embellished a bit, but I'd rather not see swords with huge pointy bat-wings and encrusted in jewels because I think it looks daft and it actually takes away from the aesthetic of what makes a sword a sword. And it's much the same with armour or its absence. I may not care for Vallejo-style bikini armour but neither do I want... well, Brienne, who was making a point both within the story but also to GRRM's readers. I find it an interesting point at that; just not all of the time. And I did feel sad when DOS's high-heeled armour was dropped, along with handstands after climbing a ladder and so on because they were too "unrealistic"; I suppose at least the sneaking barrels survived the cull.

I may like realism, but there are limits. If I wanted absolute realism I'd go through the front door and venture... outside. *shudder*

I think it comes down to choice, bikini armour shouldn't be blocked from the game, but it should also be optional with other choices available. The problem really only arises when one side forces their taste on the other.

And I get what your saying about young men having more endurance, but I chalk that up to by young men being used to being shit on more by society and villified and so psychologically resilience develops and/or crushing depression.

I agree, fwiw. It's less clear-cut when it comes to deciding how much of what gets doled out as random gear to NPCs etc but in saying that I'm moving the goalposts a little. In terms of how people dress their characters I don't see why any of it should be a problem.


I think that both are true. Certain elements of society do love their villains, whoever they may be at the time. IME the overwhelming majority pay no heed and take people how they find them, but it is hard to ignore the movers and shakers when they have loud voices and influence.

@Hamster_Baller

Ok .
>Gibe proof
im saying its a blight on the genre, not that its the standard, definitly veering into that direction tho and im not jus ttalking about video games but also TTRPGs where that trend rears its ugly head.
See Mordhau, See PoX , see PoE, see the Gothic remake attempt. Even witcher to a degree
Of course its hard to pin down tripple A fatnasy RPGs because there havent been any made in quite a while.
In TTRPGs you have to observe the scene realy.

>Your argument contradicts itself
it doesnt.
Part of my point is that "Muh realism" people have no idea about realism whatsoever.
>Dark Souls Helmets are real helmets
and this proves my point.
Dark Souls armor is believeable, not realistic, those pieces existed... kind of. But not with those proportions, not with that ornamentation, not with those deformations.
Mordhau meanwhile attempts to model stufff 1:1 on real life replica or stuff that still lies around, making it look boring and out of place because it doesnt actually looks used but like a bunch of museum pieces strapped together.

>Warcraft style, DotA, LoL
So three completley different artstyles are the same?
Ok.
Just because its colourfull and you dont like it doesnt mean its the same thing.
Porportions are different, the way armor is presented is different, even the colour scheme varies greatly between those three with LoL beeing the closest to warcraft but actually beeing much closer to a mixture of a Marvel cartoon and Korean stuff.

yeah you wrote "WoWs artstyle has become the default"; thats wrong, its a lie. Show me a tripple A video game that came out with that style.
Show me an MMORPG coming out after Wildstar with that style.
The last normal RPG with that style to come out was Amalur, and that came out before Skyrim did IIRC.

>For Honor Darksouls, you conflate thigns yadda yadda
Wrong.
I like For Honor and Dark Souls specificalyl because their styles do this very thing.
Remain believeable while not sticking specifically to realism
Witcher goes into this with the design of major characters, but tries to stick to renaissance aesthetic a lot.

>I dont rate games for how they look
I do, artstyle is important.
just like "Muh realism", "Muh gameplay" is just as much of a meme. Its a combination of both.
A game that plays like crap can look great but will still fail, see Ryse son of rome.
A game that plays great but looks like ass will still not gain mass appeal. See Dwarf Fortress beeing a cult classic but still basically a niche title, while even a minor visual upgrade (And mechanical downgrade) like Rimworld can make a one man developer quite rich.

>Mordhau offers an example in realism
Pretty sure mordhau added female characters in a patch.


@Vometia
Honestly i think the same applies to IT as applies to Video games.
Back when IT was a thing for nerds. ONly nerds did it.
Both men and women can be tech nerds so the split was 50/50
Now IT has become an important business branch and are in high demand, lots of men gravitate towards it because... well because men gravitate towards technical jobs with logical applications.

The same is true with Video games, tho i dont think video games were adopted by women early.
What im saying is. The kind of game that a Fantasy RPG is, appeals more to typical male interests. Which is violence, heroism, progression, risk taking and so on.
Fantasy RPGs are based on Tolkien and Tolkiien based his works of Norse and Anglo Saxon sagas who in many cases were stories about men who did manly things liike kill things and kill people and plunder towns and fight other men.
They inspried young men to be warriors.
Now they inspire young men to be warriors in front of the PC.

These same stories always appealed to Women.
but they didnt appeal to ALL women. They appealed to a higher percentage of men than women.
This is not a bad thing.

its not that women "Dont play games". Its that less women play games.
Its a fact. Women primarily play Mobile games, because that appeals to them more.

No ammount of pandering to women will get those woment aht were never interrested in Fantasy RPGs to like fantasy RPGs.
And if you tried to do it, you dont do it by desexualizing women.

You do it by adding Hot men to it.
I certainly know a few women that liked the Witcher TV show because it had a Burly hunk in it

>Women in comabt roles etc.

Hard Agree.
but its a fantasy setting and Forgotten Realms started out as the literal "Magical Realm" of a sex positive hippie.
Its not a Hema LARP setting

I like armors which tell a story behind the character whether male or female. In Dark Souls there is a story about Artorias who was a knight corrupted by the Abyss. Abyss is a place and metaphor for darkness of the soul. When you see him and his movement, you know there was a battle. He was wounded. Abyss changed him.
To conclude. Armor tells a story about survival and dignity.

I think the "women play games on Facebook" is as much of a stereotype as "only pubescent spotty boys play RPGs". As much as there's a small element of truth to both, it's only that: small. Most of the other women gamers I know prefer RPGs. Some even prefer the tactical stuff that does my head in. I prefer avoiding combat and prefer to talk my way out of situations, which is why I'm not so keen on too much combat focus: it doesn't interest me, I'm crap at it and as much as I like to get my stats honed as much as anyone else... well, I guess the whole point is role-playing. And from the perspective of me as a player, I like exploring, finding interesting ways to do things and not living a vicarious world of pain. I like combat where I can run away as long as I don't spend the whole game doing it.

As for hot men... ew, sweaty. Don't get me wrong, if I'm up for a drink or a curry or a virtual brawl then I love the chaps in my life but scantily clad... er, put more clothes on lads. Preferably a tank. You like tanks, I like tanks, tanks are awesome. You look much better wearing a Challenger 2 than a kevlar speedo.

Well its not a Stereotype its a statistical fact.

Of course the reality of that statement is that those women that play Facebook games just dont play "Games" at all. They play facebook games because they got boring jobs (like a lot of people do) and need soemthing to distract themselves with in the office

Anecodtal evidence is anecdotal.
A lot of my friends like dungeons and dragons, whey protein and jojos bizarre adventure

I dont think thats because these things are popular, i think i surround myself with people who like the same things as i do

In that case, I suppose the discussion has hit a dead end. Perhaps it would be helpful to post links to studies that deal with video game habits accounting for gender and that are based on statistically representative samples? As for armor design, that too would be an interesting area of study but I sincerely doubt there's a single one out there.

id actually be genuinly interrested in that

I am hoping for no class restrictions, meaning do not turn it to charge for certain classes. Offer them all from the start. or at min 90% of them. I have no issue paying for character slots, and some extra races, skins, clothing, hair….etc… I just hate when games charge for classes.

A big thing for me is character development/ uniqueness. Please customize like no other the PVE side. I do not need doppelgangers running around…look that’s the 6th Acrobat Halfling Thief with a pogo stick in black leather armor, and a ruby brooch. I want to see good characters, evil characters, don’t give a rats butt characters. Rich characters poor characters etc... I want to develop an alter ego. Not meta character following a standardized build. Make us make choices that develop, open doors, close doors, restrict, open up new horizons as we go. If I have a character that is .015 % chance of an exact clone then I would be happy.

i dont know what exaclty you are talking about.
This is a single player game not an MMORPG so you probably dont have to worry about running into "clones"

It's not singleplayer but Coop that being said it's still not an MMO.

Honestly, the heads-up display / GUI seems to be a knock-off of D:OS. What are the odds of making it look more like that of BG?

1%.

For me, other than 6 character party this would be my biggest request as well. A tool set to make big arse long customized content would be amazing and potentially timeless.