After that reddit AMA, I can see that there's no place in BG3 for old relics like me, and whenever I try to voice my concerns I'm usually shut down by people that think I'm weird for expecting a similar but upgraded version of the original BGs. Imagine if Blood Bowl 3 went real time without any dice rolling, I'm sure a lot of the original players wouldn't prefer that because that's not what the originals were about, but to then be told why they're so wrong by other fans for expecting a progressive continuation to the original mechanics, or to just straight up not be considered by the new company making said new game..

Anyway. Thanks for the month of excitement, and I genuinely wish you luck, Larian.

Back to the originals and Pathfinder I go. Bannerlord will come out soon, too =D

Fare thee well, sir. All this game needs in order to succeed is for Divinity fans to buy it. Old relics are just a nuisance after all.

They want to appeal to oldschool fans. If you are really oldschool you remember a time where you did not have the internet to force your opinions on Game Developers by jumping on a bandwagon like here with the "BG3 is just DoS3". I am as oldschool as everyone been playing P&P DnD and Tabletop (as you mentioned BB) for almost 30 years and played all the oldschool games even back to the 80s. Give them the creative breathing room to make the game they want to make and then judge it afterwards. This pressure brigading on here wanting them to make a BG2 clone is tickling my grumpy senses. I can get some feedback like wanting the 6 person party but there are legitimate arguments for 4 as well.

I hope they have a thick enough skin and don't let them get influenced too much by these voices. When we get the Open Beta phase we will see if this game plays well or not. And ultimately its Gameplay together with Story and immersion and authenticity of the full package that decides if this game is good. And if its great you will buy it anyway contrary to what you posted here. We get this "You are not doing what I want I won't buy this" posts in every game community these days it is extremely childish and not the wisdom of old age.

Blood Bowl 1 had a real time mode bruv.
You cant make that comparison anyway, bloodbowl is a game defined ENTIERLY by its mechanics. Its not an RPG, bloodbowl i sa game about playing bloodbowl.
Bloodbowl 2 had some very strong changes from 1. Like the SP mode beeing entierly about the tutorial or the focus of the game shifting heavily towards online leagues.

The issue here is that you refuse to accept anything that isnt 100% your vision.
Well the youre not getting it. If bioware was making this, you also wouldnt get htat.
You cant, unless you start a developer studio yourself.

You are not not even thirty, young mister!

edit:

That is a good attitude. And pressure never produced good games in any way, I would like to add.

... and make it a good enough studio in the genre to get the license for Baldur's Gate.

Lol nice find😂😂 His like ancient 😂 When BG 2 released he was under 10 😂😂

I meant relic as in the older way of thinking on sticking to the style of previous BGs.

I'm sorry if my post is offending you guys, but there's no need for you to not be respectful.

Amen.

I confirm. It's everywhere and for every studio now. Bigs "sagas" are like some... news religions for people in our modern ways... they become dogmatics. I'm "new" in the Larian community, but i can say with experience that is the same on others bigs IP...

It is completely paradoxical.

People want "news things" ( if not, they talk about the recycled side of the game ) but "the same as before" ( if not, they talk about the original game betrayal ).
I've saw that in many "famous" IP these last years, in video games industry, but movies and books are also concerned.
I'm not saying that BG 3 will be a good game / RPG just now, but i 'm not against changes if it is for good reasons ( and being amazed by DoS games make me confident toward Larian ). We will see... maybe i'll not like the game, but for now, it's and by far too soon to say it.

I don't feel any of your posts are disrespectful, nor did I aim to be so myself, you just asked a bit for it with 'old men',
but I know how you mean it

What is this "Whenever I try to voice my concerns" stuff? Your account has four posts, and two of them are in this thread. One of them was a request for a party size of 6, which many other people have also thought to be a good idea, and in the other you said you were under 30 - so why are you calling yourself an old man?

How can you been dogpiled for "voicing concerns" when you apparently haven't been voicing concerns?

The only way that seems to make sense is if you're accidentally confessing to having multiple accounts posting on these forums at the same time to try and make it seem as if your opinion is popular among more different people than it actually is - AKA "sock-puppeting". Either that or your previous account was banned, and if you were banned, it was likely for a lot of abusive language or aggressive behavior.

Don't think your weird for wanting BG2 upgraded...

I'm over 40 and I admit when I first hear BG3 was in the works my initial thoughts went that way as well, but I am intruiged to see where Larian takes this and I am not against changes. Whilst NWN was a different game, i saw it as Bioware's desire to change and branch their D&D style and I felt it had pros and cons. So in some respects I personally see this as much the same thing.

So I am happy to voice my likes and dislikes, but ultimately know my voice counts little on a forum (though Larian if you want a creative writer...).

I agree with allowing for creative freedom, but I also agree with those expressing concern at too many similarities to DOS. Somewhere in the middle is hopefully the sweet spot.

I did wonder about that but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming they meant elsewhere.


Well yeah. We've had several instances of that lately. One fairly obvious, another innocuous but odd, the usual sort of stuff. I dare say there are others I may not yet be aware of.

I can't say I have seen much childish behaviour here. Disappointment and worry are to be expected from longtime fans. I genuinely don't mind BG3 is being made - BG saga has been complete for some time now, and I have no interest in a direct sequel. Larian approach is interesting, even if I don't believe it will be a game faithfully using the IP (I am not talking about RtwP/artstyle etc. - just overall what the game is trying to accomplish). But I will most likely play it, and if I were back in Uni with a chance for regular LAN parties with friends I would be really looking forward to it. I am confident BG3 will be a good game, and one worth keeping an eye on.

Still, BG2 is pretty important game to me. It open my mind to a possibility of using the gaming medium for storytelling, and I found those interactive adventures inspiring. I was extatic to see the genre come back to life - Pillars had some great things going for it, but was hampered by budget and need to appeal to nostalgia rather then be the best game it can be. Pathfinder's writing and storytelling is pretty crap unfortunately.

In spite of my support to Larian, I can't help but being disappointment that BG3 will not be this deep narrative experience brought to a next level by a large studio development, and lot of cash and 20 years of progress. Storydriven RPGs and immersive sim are my thing, and BG3 could and should(?) be that. BG3 "should be" my thing - the most anticipated game. It is not.

It is not Larian way, however, and I would rather have them make a game they believe in, then have them try to guess what I would like to see. I have accepted what it will be when it was announced that Larian is doing it... and with a sigh of releif. Sometimes we get Bladerunner 2049, but most of the time we don't. In the end I would rather have not-BG BG3, then bad BG3. Unlike Theif-reboot it won't be a wasted opportunity.

Id like to point out that theres evidence of another RPG focused Forum creating sock puppet accounts to dogpile Baldurs Gate 3 related discussions.

Well that the thing you can move on with the times or you can stay behind there really is no middle ground you pick one or the other

Ditto Cyberiank. Old man here as well. I love table top D&D so the dice rolling aspect is one thing I have very little problem with.

Agreed I really wish people would just wait until BG3 comes out first to make a judgement I mean you can hardly make a judgement on a game when it is still in it's pre alpha stage

I thought forum is a place to share ones thoughts on the subject? Like impression of BG3 and likes/dislikes based on what one seen, backed with knowledge of Larian's previous works?

Yeah, I know the one, they've been doing the same for years. It's the sort of place that I'm in no hurry to visit...

You would think people would have better things to do than making sock puppet accounts just to troll people

its not to troll people, its a deliberate campaign, this sorta stuff has worked before.

Essentialy you astroturf an opinion that is not backed up by the actual numbers.
To give an example in the BG3 sphere: the TB vs RTWP discussion always is dominated by people arguing n favor of RTWP, meanwhile even on 4chans /v/, a forum known for its contrarianism and its idolization of old video games and extreme intolerance of anyhting new, Turn Based wins the polls by a large margin.

The idea here is to give the impression of a majority opinion that doenst exist.
The goal is to change the developers course by implying that they alienate their fanbase.

This has been done quite ofthen. Another tactic is to write letters to sponsors or publishers.



so no, this isnt an effort to "troll" anyone.
its an effort to interfere with the development of a video game.

Sadly that's not the case for a lot of the people on the pro side in this forum. Usually the argument from them is some variant of "you can't judge the game/how dare you judge the game" or moving the goalposts (you must wait until gameplay is revealed/early access/game is released/10 years have gone by since game was released).

Except no goalposts have been moved. It's perfectly reasonable to wait until the devs SELL YOU THE PRODUCT to judge it.
When they sell something, they are saying 'We are confident you will enjoy this.'

Judging before that is, as I have said before, like stating the eggs, flour & milk the chef pulled out looks nothing like the finished wedding cake; you're complaining before the product is even ready to be consumed.

I disagree. The time to judge the product is before they sell it to me. In most cases, there is no refund if I buy the game to judge it and don't like it. I will judge it before I spend my hard-earned money. That means with what I see. Or a Free demo if any.

Or you watch videos of other people playing it. It's possible to judge a finished product without spending money, and it's unreasonable to say 'Your unfinished product does not stand up to what I expect a finished BG3 game to be'

Agreed. If no criticisms or feedback is put forth now before the game enters into later development stages, then nothing will change.

That being said, there's a line to draw too on what's reasonable and unreasonable. Party sizes before balancing is finished? Why not. Changing whole core systems and expecting huge balancing changes between two modes, etc.? Not so much.

But are you not judging the product before it is finished by saying you like it? You may not like it when it is finished. So your reasoning is flawed.

I'm saying it's going in a direction I like. I'm well aware it may end up being a game I don't like, but that does not seem likely.

The difference is that most the people hating it are claiming things that can, by all rights, change before release. Like the UI or assets being 'too much like DOS2' without knowing placeholder assets are a thing.

Wow that sad that people are doing that there would be better off just moving onto something there like instead of trying to change it I mean if I wanted the old style of BG I would just make my own DND video game problem solved

And they are saying that it's going in a direction they don't like. You just don't like what they are saying is all.

I would distinguish between things that are "going in a [certain] direction" and things that have already arrived. Some examples of the latter are TB combat, 3D movable camera, and textures. Some examples of the former kind would be party size, level range, sound effects, and UI. Basically, things that could change vs things that very likely (if not definitely) won't.

Yeah, they are entitled to their opinion.
They can voice their opinion just like anyone else.

But once you start astroturfing that opinion and trying to trick developers into thinking its a much more popular opinion than it actually is, thats when you cross into the "not ok" territory.

Agreed

This makes no sense at all I’m afraid. They’re showing it off this early precisely to get feedback. They’re even going the early access route - a team of 250 people - for this very reason. It seems to be exceedingly important to them what people think of the game at this stage. For that very reason it makes no sense to defend the game from people’s opinions. They want opinions.

Except many people are not giving opinions or feedback.
They're going HashTag-NotMyBG3 and making DEMANDS like 'Change The Name' or 'Remove the 3'.

That's not feedback; it's an overreaction that in no way helps the devs polish their game. You can say 'this sucks' but it's not constructive, and being angry it's not the game you (using a royal you; not YOU in specific) want is not useful feedback.

Saying 'the animations look stilted/silly' is feedback. Saying 'The spells don't look like they have oomph' is feedback. or 'The voice acting sounds a little flat' is feedback.

'Why is this BG3?' is not feedback. It's a complaint made by someone who's not going to enjoy the game unless the devs completely overhaul the entire thing.

To put it another way; I could go onto Modern Warfare's forums and complain that it's not a real FPS. But it's not feedback. It won't help the devs make the next one.

Agreed

Of course its better to give specific feedback, but saying that someone is overreacting isn’t meaningful. They may dislike what they’ve seen to the point where minor precise feedback wouldn’t cut it, and so instead they show disappointment knowing that they’re not getting the game they dreamed off. There’s no point in trying to defend the game from that. It won’t lead anywhere. Just let them vent their frustration; it seems people have valid reasons for it, and it’ll pass eventually.

I think the Larian devs will be intelligent enough to tell apart thoughtful or constructive comment from grumpy rants.

They can't please everyone in every way, but most feedback will likely be useful in at least highlighting where there may be aspects to consider. I don't expect any major changes, but where there are quality of life suggestions that are easy to implement, there is always a possibility they will adopt them. It is in their interest to have as many people as possible want to buy and play the game, after all.

Yes but it's easier for devs to find constructive critisim if they don't have to sort through multiple posts about how 'BG3 is a betrayal of every REAL fan', or how 'this is not BG3', or how it's 'false advertising', or 'a blatent use of BG IP to sell DOS3'.

And everything I threw in quotes? All things people have said. I did not make up a single one.

They also have to sort through all the posts complaining about the posts complaining about the game.

I'm going to bed. Be lovely to each other, everyone, I don't want to wake up to an instant mood!

Yea

I think the point is to stop wasting time and space by (a) repeatedly criticizing things that aren't going to change and (b) issuing complaints and comments that are nonconstructive and unhelpful (like those he quoted).

Sure, those who are unhappy with what they are seeing are entitled to speak up too; it just doesn't need to keep reappearing in numerous threads. There should two pinned threads: "Commiserate in what BG3 could have been" and "Rejoice in what BG3 will be" so there is no more pointless back and forth in thread after thread. Of course, that assumes people from each camp wouldn't cross over and argue in the opposing thread .. but I have no such faith in humanity. Oh well.

Fair enough. But other old men like me don't understand why some people don't look forward to play with new kinds of ways, new challenges, new stories, the old rpgs they loved once and are, instead, stuck into nostalgia. Enjoy your pathfinder, pal. No offense taken, and no given I hope.

I'm sure that Larian looks at all feedback provided and criticisms. I'm think that including a solution to said feedback and criticisms would bring more merit and thought to those posts by Larian, rather than just "I don't like or we don't want" posts. In the end, the game will please some and anger others, but it's been this way for decades. Please continue because I need something to read daily.

Thanks for reading...

Razorback aka Daevin Aruth
"Nullius Pavet Occursum" = "He fears not meeting with any one"
Gold is the money of kings, silver is the money of gentlemen, barter is the money of peasants, and debt is the money of slaves...
https://discord.gg/jxA5AvA

Sweet dreams and perhaps you will dream of cheese colored shoes with sword aglets.

Thanks for reading...

Razorback aka Daevin Aruth
"Nullius Pavet Occursum" = "He fears not meeting with any one"
Gold is the money of kings, silver is the money of gentlemen, barter is the money of peasants, and debt is the money of slaves...
https://discord.gg/jxA5AvA

Feedback and concerns are noted in varying degrees of detail.


I nearly always wear black! You can kinda sorta get black cheese as various types have that black wax covering.

I don't remember what I dreamt about, though I suspect it didn't feature my usual of being in a toilet in an unfamiliar place and finding there's no toilet roll. I guess I didn't need to dream it since I can live the dream!

Easy, this is not the only place people discuss BG3. Crazy!

Plus I'm being suspected of creating multiple accounts to voice and perpetuate my opinion to appear as a false majority? All because someone couldn't comprehend me sharing an opinion on BG3 outside this forum?

Yep! That did it. Thanks for being a prime example of how conspiracies are born.

Larian, best of luck with BG3 and I sincerely hope you all enjoy it (no sarcasm in this whatsoever, I know this can be misconstrued over text). I made a mistake with this post, which was meant to be a "thanks but no thanks, but best of luck" style quick word to Larian. I'm out. Please feel free to delete this account.

>Muh conspiracy
i literaly have a screencap from a forum known to do this asking people on said forum to do this.

Meanwhile your persecution complex sounds like alex jones thining hes beeing supressed for shouting about gay frogs and aliens

Memories of the Bethsoft forums being invaded on the pretext of disgruntled Fallout fans. *shudder*

While astroturfing is indeed a thing...do you have any proof of this being the case?
The interent is full of lies and interrest grupes and weirdos.

ive PMed my sources to the admins.
No point going on about this in public.