Larian Studios

What are your expectations with this game?

Posted By: Beeber

What are your expectations with this game? - 15/04/20 04:44 AM

Specifically, how do you think BG3 is gonna compare with the legendary BG2?

Honestly, I'm worried. I played BG2 a bit on the hardest setting, and because I'm incompetent who pretends to be cool by playing on the hardest difficulty, all my playthroughs have been utter failures. Simply put, I will never play BG3 until I first beat BG2 on normal settings.

What I'm worried about is this... I love Larian as much as I love Square-Enix, and I pretty damn love Square-Enix. My first Mass Effect game (not a Square-Enix game) was Andromeda. Now, hear me out... My first impressions of that game was great. It's awesome. But I soon learned it is quite possibly the most hated Mass Effect game there is. Bioware has her other games to keep her from going bankrupt, and I don't think Andromeda was an utter failure. It's just that the loyalists of the Mass Effect franchise hated it as much as Morrowind fans hated Skyrim.

I DO NOT want Larian to suffer the same fate. Baldur's Gate 2 is a legend in the RPG world, and I fear my beloved favorite game company (Larian) might receive the same hate Bioware received with Andromeda, or Square-Enix with FF13, or Bethesda with Fallout 76.

I don't wanna say I expect Larian not to get criticized, but I think based on the pattern of how RPG fans generally are, it may well be what will happen. I know I was the same way when I played FF10. I hated it...

I want Larian's BG3 to be her own version of Square-Enix's Shadowbringers.
Posted By: qhristoff

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 15/04/20 05:40 AM

It really depends. I expect it will sell well. I expect it will review well and receive a lot of acclaim.

Regarding playing BG1/2 before playing BG3, you are setting yourself up for disappointment on two counts. Firstly, the story of the Bhaalspawn saga has concluded. You will finish BG2 and Throne of Bhaal utterly satisfied. In this way, you will be disappointed if you expect a continuation of this story. It happened as events in the past, but is not the focus of BG3. Secondly, the games themselves will differ greatly. BG1/2 are Real-time with Pause cRPGs set in an open world with non linear progression. BG3 will be a Turn-based cRPG set within Act-based maps/locales with a linear narrative. In this way, if you expect that BG3 will play the same as BG1/2, you will be disappointed.

That being said, this is only to say that they are different products, and you will set yourself up for disappointment by comparing them too closely. BG3 is a new game using currently popular techniques and mechanics meant to introduce people to a faithful adaptation of D&D the pen and paper game. BG1/2 were also new games using then popular techniques and mechanics, but they instead were meant to introduce D&D to computer gamers. It's a subtle difference, but its there.

I fully expect that if you look at BG1/2 and BG3 as separate contained products, and not that BG3 is a direct sequel, then you might fully enjoy both experiences.
Posted By: Sordak

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 15/04/20 05:48 AM

i Think its gonna stay divisive.
Im pretty sure its gonna end up beeing a great game btu a lot of people will not like it.
Not even for it beeing BG3, but theres also a huge ammount of divisiveness about the divinity games.
They just dont appear to reasonate with people simply for beeing different frm the CRPG formula.

i think BG3 will be no different in that.
it very much reminds me of DnD edition warring or the debate between DnD and non DnD games like 13th age.

The infinity engine games had a certain cryptic nature to them. Hard to explain but the way the character sheets looked and the way things were structured.
To people not knowing ADnD or just playing a CRPG fo rthe first time, it can be mistifyign and thats part of the charm of those games.
Larian games are more clean in that.
Which takes away the magic for a few people.


As for what i personally suspect a pretty good game, however, due to it beeing a major risk i perhaps dont exactly expect a lot of experimentation.
Which is a shame because experimentaiton was larians thing, btu theyve broken into the Big leagues and now they cant allow themsleves to fuck up.
So i think the "lets try realy radical things" job now lies with owlcats WOTR.
Im realy kind of interrested how a tripple A ascending Larian game will look. With their latest games theyve gotten rid of some of their trademark Jank, but not all of it.
I think at this point its less about what i expect and more that im curious how it will turn out.
Especialy having seen the screenshots and them reminding me a lot of Dragon age, and then having seen the gameplay and that beeing... less so, for better or worse.

>Mass Effect Andromeda
i wouldnt worry, because the comparison simply isnt fair.
mass effect andromeda was a bad mass effect game according to the fans.
But according to most people it was... just a pretty bad game overall.
Your taste is your taste, i also like tons of games that other people consider to be terrible, such as dragonshard, or Enclave, or dark souls 2, but Andromeda had tons of obvious glaring issues.
From the very low variety of cool aliens, the terrible motion capture, the amateurish graphics (seriously who forgets to shade the eyes?), the deliberate uglyfication of the face scanned characters (look up the person that the female protagonists base look is based on, and tell me they look simmilar) and thats only starting to scratch the surface , cause i only bareley mentioned the blatant political baggage that it had.

So if anything, BG3 has only 50% of the hatred that ME:A had. Nameley the "you ruined our brand" hatred. Not the "you made a terrible game" one, or the "you are pushing a stupid narrative" one.
Posted By: vometia

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 15/04/20 09:33 AM

Re: Andromeda, as I mentioned elsewhere lately, I think it's actually a very underrated game that became fashionable to hate. Some of the criticisms were valid and having rifled through the game's assets it would appear that someone ineptly altered a whole bunch of stuff in a manner that can only be described as vandalism, and they did indeed seem to specifically target female characters. I've attempted to undo some of the damage in my own game but it's quite difficult as a lot of the changes are practically impossible to fix due to stuff just being destroyed; I can only assume that the originals were also destroyed (and presumably inadequately backed up) and there wasn't time to redo them.

Other than that, though, my opinion is that most of the game is actually well-designed and well-written. There's a lot of it, plenty to explore, plenty of side-quests and I found the characters to be engaging and interesting. It seems a bunch of other gripes were down to EA's usual pressured release schedule causing a lot of stuff to be cut, some of it ending up seeming quite incongruous as a result, but a lot of the rough edges have been dealt with by subsequent patches.

It's a bit sad that it seems that EA/Bioware practically abandoned it before it had even hit the shelves though the problems I describe with the apparent "vandalism" may have been a significant factor in that decision. I'm speculating and I suspect we'll never know the real reason but it seems not unlikely.

I'm currently having a rather belated second play-through and I'm finally running out of steam after two or three weeks, but that's not so much Andromeda as me just not really being in a Mass Effect mood. I'd sooner play it than ME3 or even ME2, though.
Posted By: Sordak

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 15/04/20 10:21 AM

You wanna elaborate on said vandalism?
ive heard such rumors but i considered them a bit stupid.
why make somehting good and then ruin it?

I remember an old interview where one of the developers said that they left some things delibratley jarring because... something about making it too good would make it unrealistic?

I kind of brushed it off as trying to make an excuse and sell a bug as a feature.

The general consensus back in the day was that Bioware had massive financial problems and replaced some of their veteran developers with rookies straight of the university that just didnt quite got what it take to do tripple A level graphics, especialy when it came to the animations.


But when it come sto the female characters, one cannot help but wonder.
Supposedly, the faces were 3D scanned, so why would they look so much worse than the... real people? not just in attractiveness but in facial proportions and overall not looking very human.
There were also some issues like the character creator at launch not having certain options for seemingly no reason whatsoever such as not having any light skin tones.
Posted By: CPT_SLOW

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 15/04/20 10:51 AM

Well, speaking of Andromeda and expectations for BG3.. The only game I've ever got refunded was Andromeda. And I don't refund stuff, like, ever. Even when I probably should. And my expectations are that Baldur's Gate 3 will not be the 2nd game I refund laugh

I'm not an Andromeda hater at all, but I do think that the harsh reception it got at launch was fair. What a mess. Credit to EA though (!?!), the refunding process was quick and easy, no problems there.

I bought Andromeda again (at some 20-30 % discount) around 6 or 7 months later and played through the whole thing. After some much needed patching it was definitely decent.
Posted By: Madscientist

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 15/04/20 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by CPT_SLOW
Well, speaking of Andromeda and expectations for BG3.. The only game I've ever got refunded was Andromeda. And I don't refund stuff, like, ever. Even when I probably should. And my expectations are that Baldur's Gate 3 will not be the 2nd game I refund laugh

I'm not an Andromeda hater at all, but I do think that the harsh reception it got at launch was fair. What a mess. Credit to EA though (!?!), the refunding process was quick and easy, no problems there.

I bought Andromeda again (at some 20-30 % discount) around 6 or 7 months later and played through the whole thing. After some much needed patching it was definitely decent.


Almost all games are buggy at release.
By those standarts it is a miracle that pathfinder kingmaker sold so well.
It was unplayable at realease but after some patches it was very good.

My advice: Unless you like to be a beta tester, have patience when getting a new game.
You should wait for a few patches before you start playing.
Posted By: CPT_SLOW

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 15/04/20 11:42 AM

Games being buggy at release is nothing new, sure. But it certainly isn't an excuse, nor a trend I think we as gamers should support. Regarding Kingmaker, I did read about just how buggy it was, and decided not buy it. I bought it and played it last november (about 1 year after release?), good game. Inexcusably poor at release? Probably.

Even though I honestly would like to think I'm somewhat tolerant, I just don't want to be a beta tester, and I don't appreciate being made one when paying full price for a fully released product (I did study software engineering at college so I really do understand bugs are not something you can get rid of entirely).

As for my release purchase of Andromeda 3 years ago, what can I say.. I was (and still am) a Bioware fan, and a Mass Effect fan frown

There's some of my favourite developers who's game I buy straight away, or even pre-order ( This year of 2020: Naughty Dog's The Last of Us 2 and CDPR's Cyberpunk 2077). Bioware's managed to remove themselves from this list through Andromeda, for sure.

Being patient is good advice. But being patient when you're a hyped up fanboy is tough frown But hey, I have noticed it gets easier as you get older laugh
Posted By: deathidge

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 15/04/20 12:27 PM

My expectations for BG3 are bound to not be met. Don't get me wrong...I'm very much looking forward to this game but there a certain things/expectations I can't help but have when they describe this game as wanting to be as close to a PnP experience as you can get on a computer game using 5E rules. I've been itching to play D&D again and this, I hope, will allow me to scratch that itch. But, the few unfortunate things that I have seen are kind of big deals to me. I hate the thought of team-based initiative, I hate the linear progression...being forced through the maze on the correct path without being able to wander (open world), and I hate, absolutely hate, that with all the tech games have today they aren't taking advantage of random encounters and auto-generated instances. This, to me, destroys replayability as on run #2 you will know where every monster is, what every monster is, where secret door/buttons/levers are, etc etc etc. Even just a few randomly generated instances (random layout and random monsters based on the different CR tables in the DMG would be perfect) would be enough. I'm still going to buy EA and hopefully love the game...but those are big things for me.
Posted By: SorcererVictor

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 15/04/20 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by vometia
Re: Andromeda, as I mentioned elsewhere lately, I think it's actually a very underrated game that became fashionable to hate. Some of the criticisms were valid and having rifled through the game's assets (...)


The situation of BioWare can be explained by this meme

[Linked Image]


--------------------------------------

When BG3 got announced, i was expecting nothing from the game. when i heard that for Vincke, missing obvious not work, spell slots aren't intuitive, etc. I was expecting a Sword Coast Legends clone. Then i saw the reveal gameplay and looks good. Will not be the new ToEE in therms of following the rules but MAYBE can be like NWN2 and modders can UN do all Larian changes.

So i an hopeful.
Posted By: _Vic_

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 15/04/20 02:23 PM

The gameplay gives good news about the D&D 5e implementation ingame , I hope they also give mod support from the start to add ritual casting, for example.

IMHO Andromeda was very generic and no-risk-allowed for the expectations one could have for a ME game; so it ends up a solid game, but forgettable; It was not as bad as the memes said, tho.
Posted By: Emrikol

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 15/04/20 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by deathidge
My expectations for BG3 are bound to not be met. Don't get me wrong...I'm very much looking forward to this game but there a certain things/expectations I can't help but have when they describe this game as wanting to be as close to a PnP experience as you can get on a computer game using 5E rules. I've been itching to play D&D again and this, I hope, will allow me to scratch that itch. But, the few unfortunate things that I have seen are kind of big deals to me. I hate the thought of team-based initiative, I hate the linear progression...being forced through the maze on the correct path without being able to wander (open world), and I hate, absolutely hate, that with all the tech games have today they aren't taking advantage of random encounters and auto-generated instances. This, to me, destroys replayability as on run #2 you will know where every monster is, what every monster is, where secret door/buttons/levers are, etc etc etc. Even just a few randomly generated instances (random layout and random monsters based on the different CR tables in the DMG would be perfect) would be enough. I'm still going to buy EA and hopefully love the game...but those are big things for me.

I don't disagree with the appeal (or more accurately, the idea) of having such variety through subsequent playthroughs, but I do find the idea of fusing the PnP experience with an open world somewhat at odds. Yes, you're of course free to go wherever you want in a PnP session, but the DM generally does, or at least should have a story for you follow. For example, if the next lead in the story is to go visit a certain castle in the north, but you decide to just go wandering south instead, would that really make sense? If I were DMing a session and a player did that, I expect I would let them wander for days until they became like Michael Scott trying to imitate Bear Grylles, or let them run into a group of bandits who shakes them down for all their worth. Point is, even though you can go anywhere, it doesn't mean you should. The wilderness isn't a theme park with obvious and guaranteed exciting locations every few miles. Translating to a game, it seems true of a PnP session to have a linear progression. If a game could be large enough to facilitate actual exploration (e.g. at least 100 times the size of The Witcher 3) with no obvious markers (or even maps) that led you to first discover/research leads and such, then okay cool, I guess. I think most people would find that too much work. Best just to follow a story and dispense with a candyland version of an open world. This probably isn't going to be a popular opinion, I expect.
Posted By: deathidge

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 15/04/20 05:05 PM

I actually don't disagree with that. I get the comparison you make between PnP and a linear storyline, but I would add that I'm talking about replayability here, for the most part. If you finish Campaign 1 with your DM and start Campaign 2...you wouldn't have it to be exactly the same as your first run through. Now, I know it's different because this is a game and there are obvious limitations...but if there was even just a little RNG, like random mobs, random instances that are always different, etc., that would be enough to get something new with each run through. There are a lot of game companies that use a form of AI for their instance building, so you'll never run through the same instance twice. Now, I also get that Larian is telling a story and they need to create their story a certain way and have things laid out a certain way to get it. I accept that. But you can add in non-story driven content just for variety. They should be able to add in caves, structures, and random mobs that don't affect their story but are built with AI so they are different each play through.

For example, take the goblin fortress we saw in some of the new gameplay footage. It's probably story driven so it can't change. But they could add a small section to the map that had something like that, that would be randomly generated when the game is started. So playthrough #1, it might be another goblin fortress. Next play-through you might get a kobold cave instead, or an ogre lair, or bandit hideout, etc. With each of those, the layout would be different; a cave, a fortress, a castle, ruins, etc. That would be such an exciting place to go on each subsequent playthough because it would be different and new. Once you playthrough once...you will never get 'new', besides maybe dialogue options/outcomes.

And it doesn't necessarily need to be a huge open world, either. If they incorporated random enemy spawns of some sort after the original enemies in that area died, that would be enough for people that love one 'zone' and don't want to leave quite yet. This would be difficult since they are voice acting everything and they can't really RNG dialogue with RNG monster spawns...but there are always work-arounds. Like only using RNG monsters that can't dialogue so they don't have to worry about it.

Idk, maybe once I actually start playing I won't notice any of that. That's a very real possibility. I might not really care for any of that, since there is still so much not known yet. But from what we've seen, these are my concerns/thoughts.
Posted By: Omegaphallic

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 15/04/20 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by _Vic_
The gameplay gives good news about the D&D 5e implementation ingame , I hope they also give mod support from the start to add ritual casting, for example.

IMHO Andromeda was very generic and no-risk-allowed for the expectations one could have for a ME game; so it ends up a solid game, but forgettable; It was not as bad as the memes said, tho.


They've said they have plans for ritual casting. I take it to mean that it will be in by full launch, but changed some how.
Posted By: Wormerine

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 15/04/20 11:29 PM

Comparing BG3 to Andromeda, Fallout 76 or FF13 sets a pretty low bar for BG3 to climb over. I am quite confindend that whenever I will like it or not, BG3 will be of higher quality then that. For the titles you mentioned IP is what carries them. Fallout76 looks like a complete crapshow. FF13 really wasn't very good. Never played Andromeda, but it looks... fine. Like something I wouldn't mind playing, if I had nothing better to do, but not something I am likely to make time for anytime in the near future. The point, I am trying to make: games OP mentioned get carried by IP, BG3 meantime looks great, by itself - if anything, the the IP it is attatching itself to, is the potential problem.

I wouldn't worry about BG3 reception if it's quality is high. D:OSs were a great success - both critics and players seem to love them. If BG3 can tap into the same crowd, it should do just fine. If they manage to satisfy BG1&2 fans in the process then better for them (and me). I feel BG3 is riding more on Larian wave, then BG wave.

If it would manage to satisfy BG1&2 but not D:OS fans, that would probably be the bigger issue - there is certainly very passionate and vocal group that loves their BG, but is it enough to return investment a game with 250 workforce? I don't think so.

Posted By: qhristoff

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 16/04/20 12:36 AM

*cough* i would swap ME1 and NWN1 on that meme.
Posted By: SorcererVictor

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 16/04/20 04:23 AM

Originally Posted by qhristoff
*cough* i would swap ME1 and NWN1 on that meme.


NWN1 has his problems. They not only nerfed some classes but also hard coded many things, making harder to modders to fix their nerfs. But at least NWN1 has no cooldowns and has tons of player made modules...
Posted By: Razorback

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 16/04/20 04:31 AM

OP: The lower your expectations, the more you will like BG3.
Posted By: Beeber

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 16/04/20 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by Razorback
OP: The lower your expectations, the more you will like BG3.


lmao. Funniest forum post I've read all month. Of course, to be fair, I haven't really visited a forum outside of this one in this month, not even reddit, but still.
Posted By: ImperatorGeneral

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 16/04/20 06:08 PM

Good afternoon everyone. This is my first post here on this forum and the fifth in any forum. To put it bluntly I do not post in forums normally.
So why now? Because out of my extensive experience in playing primarily RPGs since the 80s I have a very close link to Baldurs Gate 1 & 2 and when I heard that Larian was given the green light to finally do Baldurs Gate 3 I was overjoyed but had mixed feelings. Let me elaborate why I am a BG nut and for me is by far the pinnacle of all RPGs to date. As with everything it is an opinion and I say it with the utmost respect to Larian who have made very good games in their own right but because I feel so strongly about this title I hope someone at Larian takes part of my opinion along with the coutless others already on here whilst they develop this great game..

My Experience: I have played most US and European RPGs (I stay clear of JRPGs nowadays because they are a style onto themselves).
On the NES Swords and Serpents
On the Commodore Amiga I finished the Eye of the Beholder series, Dungeon Master series, Ishar series, all the SSI Gold Box games and some obscure titles such as Black Crypt, Crystal Dragon, Obitus etc
On the second and third tier consoles things like Chrono Trigger, Shining Force series and Final Fantasy series
Finally on the PC I started with a continuation of the first person legacy RPGs with Lands of Lore series, Might and Magic series and Ultima series amongst a few others of that type.
Then came the famous Black Isle and Bioware Baldurs Gate isometric style that reminded me initially of the Gold box games - I was hooked to the point of not sleeping. This created the trend for me to do all their followup games Icewind dales Dragon Age games, Mass Effect games, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Lionheart, NWN and Planescape Torment.
I tried Diablo 1 and 2, Dungeon Siege series and notable slower paced clones like the Sacred series, Revenant etc but they were more action with little role playing so I did not finish them.
Finished all of Larians games Divine Divinity, Beyond D, D2, DOS, DOS2
Finished Beamdogs Enhanced remakes and Dragonspear
Finished Obsidians POE 1&2, Tyranny, KOTOR 2, Outer Worlds and Neverwinter Nights 2
Now I am finishing Kingmaker from Owlcat

Now that is out of the way I think I am qualified to make a suggestion.

For Larian to do Baldurs Gate 3, it is not just to represent Dungeons & Dragons lore and rules version "whatever", refer to the spawn of Bhaal, improve on graphics and slap on a new story with new wackey/quirky characters using the DOS engine with a Dragon Age look for a more cinematic experience for the newer generation and even add a day night cycle Oh yeah and the endless argument of TB or RTwP. This is all nice and dandy. The important more complicated question is what made Baldurs Gate 1 & 2 special to stand the test of time and still surpass all other games attempting to imitate them? Sure you can improve on effects and graphics, you can employ good voice actors, epic soundtrack, add special items, secrets, interesting encounters with combat and even create a good game world with good Forgotten Realms story. Several of the games I have finished listed above including Larians have done this already. But why are they not as good as Baldurs?

I think Pathfinder from Owlcat has come the closest to the Baldurs Gate feel to date albeit using different mechanics and adding Kingdom management but it still falls just short.

In my opinion from all I have played, the difference is the characters that accompany you, the characters you interact with and the antagonists of the story. They felt real unpredictable and symbiotic with the world around you. Dragon age, Mass Effect and KOTOR tried to do this in Bioware style, but it was too stereotypical, forced and "guided". With Baldurs Gate (specially number 2) the NPCs had their own agendas, interests and beliefs. There were multiple lines of coding in the background that took account for multiple conditions to be in place for characters to react differently to you and others. This meant that it was entirely possible to behave and roleplay your character and in so doing alienate or gain favour of others sometimes with the support of the companions many of which were romanceable but not easily so by some easy responses in the dialogue. It was done seamlessly and not forced like this SJW LGTB agenda that compels developers in most romance options to have a bisexual interest (its not the orientation but rather the way its implicated). Some characters would abandon you, betray you or come to blows with another party member, even compel you to take a decision you would not have done otherwise. In effect you feel a part of the roleplaying experience not just some nice fantasy story with good combat and effects.

This for me is the defining factor that made it a great game coupled and without detracting the other aforementioned items such as story, graphics, rulesets, voice acting, soundtrack and setting, all important but not defining.

It is what I feel a roleplay experience should be so you feel attached to the people in it and a part of that world, not just a fun flashy experience. Baldurs I feel like replaying not because of multiple endings due to a key decision but multiple in game outcomes that enhance each playthough. Part of that is the realism too, Larian games of late are less gritty than Divine DIvinity, Planescape, Baldurs Gate, POE, Kingmaker or Dragon age. They have quirky characters, funny interactions (overly so) and do not fit the realistic immersion the Baldurs Gate offered.

Herin those are my recommendations and point of view in the hope theat Swen and his team will put some of them into the mix with others made by fans to continue the Baldurs Gate enriching saga and not just be another D&D game living off the fame created by the first 2.

Thank you all for bothering to read this far, as I said I do not normally post things but had to express my opinion for what for me is the most important game ever made.

All the best
Posted By: macadami

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 16/04/20 07:23 PM

After seeing the demo...I'd say there is a 90% chance this game will meet or exceed -my expectations- which is enough to warrant a pre-order from me. I have probably 1000 hours in BG1 and more in BG2, steam says 406 for BG1 and 305 for BG2 but I'd play through them every couple of years....since basically they originally released. 448 hours in DOS1, 651 hours in DOS2, 569 in PoE1, 369 in PoE2, and 637 in P:K.

If it has semi balanced classes that provide diversity and complexity in builds, a good non linear story that can't been seen in a single play through, combat that scales with difficulty, and a variety of party members/builds I'll without a doubt sink the same time as any other modern CRPG.

Will it get the hours of BG1 and BG2? I hope not. The only reason those games reached such acclaim and nostalgia is because there was a serious dry spell for over a decade of anything even remotely similar in scope and quality. The world was taken by FPS's and shiny graphics and the industry as a whole exploded because of it. The year 2000, there were still games aimed at nerds not everyone with eyeballs. Technology has changed, CRPGs are beginning to hit their stride again, and most of us nerds who grew up with infinity engine games make enough money now to support the genre.

I hope and think it will be an amazing game, but I also hope I'm not still playing it instead of something new in 5 years from now.
Posted By: qhristoff

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 16/04/20 09:53 PM

see I disagree with that sentiment. longevity is exactly what makes something special.

the idea that BG was only popular because of a shortage of other titles is kind of misleading too.

people still buy and play the game as new players to this day, 22 years later. You should check the reddit and see all the activity from new players etc.

like a good book or movie, you can keep going back to it and enjoy it or discover something new every time. it is a complete experience, from BG1 to ToB.

unparalleled story telling.
Posted By: SorcererVictor

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 16/04/20 11:33 PM

> the idea that BG was only popular because of a shortage of other titles is kind of misleading too.


Well said. 90s had a lot of good CRPG. Earlier 00s too. Might & Magic, all gold box games(...) What is in shortage is good TTRPG adaptation since NWN2(which is not the best example due the butchering on spells/classes)
Posted By: Wynne

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 17/04/20 02:52 AM

Originally Posted by Beeber
Specifically, how do you think BG3 is gonna compare with the legendary BG2?

Honestly, I'm worried. I played BG2 a bit on the hardest setting, and because I'm incompetent who pretends to be cool by playing on the hardest difficulty, all my playthroughs have been utter failures. Simply put, I will never play BG3 until I first beat BG2 on normal settings.

What I'm worried about is this... I love Larian as much as I love Square-Enix, and I pretty damn love Square-Enix. My first Mass Effect game (not a Square-Enix game) was Andromeda. Now, hear me out... My first impressions of that game was great. It's awesome. But I soon learned it is quite possibly the most hated Mass Effect game there is. Bioware has her other games to keep her from going bankrupt, and I don't think Andromeda was an utter failure. It's just that the loyalists of the Mass Effect franchise hated it as much as Morrowind fans hated Skyrim.

I DO NOT want Larian to suffer the same fate. Baldur's Gate 2 is a legend in the RPG world, and I fear my beloved favorite game company (Larian) might receive the same hate Bioware received with Andromeda, or Square-Enix with FF13, or Bethesda with Fallout 76.

I don't wanna say I expect Larian not to get criticized, but I think based on the pattern of how RPG fans generally are, it may well be what will happen.


First of all, I want to humbly implore you, please stop being silly and just play BG2, even if it's on the easiest settings with god items from mods. How can you have fun that way? Be kinder to yourself. Experience the story. You're a Bhaalspawn. Why shouldn't a Bhaalspawn be a badass? You can work up to higher difficulties as you get used to the trappings of the game--if it's fun for you to do so.

Andromeda was Andromeda. It was an established universe tainted by a huge mistake of an ending (ME3's). It wasn't unreasonable expectations but rather plot and lore betrayals that made ME3 so controversial. Andromeda took some of the brunt of that, mostly because the developer had doubled down on giving the finger to their fan base about every concern they had, pretending it was about not having enough time to say goodbye or some bs when it was actually more about not finishing the story, dropping important plot threads, and relieving themselves on the core values and themes of the series. (If anyone disagrees with me, that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but please know you will not change my mind and I prefer not to rehash all that here.) Andromeda couldn't really fix what came before so it avoided it, and if successful it could've revitalized the series. It just couldn't live up to what it had to live up to under the circumstances. It had big shoes to fill, and a wrong to right, and it couldn't. Tragic and unfortunate. I still appreciated some things about it, but I wasn't able to love it as I wanted to or as I'd loved 1 & 2 (and some parts of 3.)

That's interesting about the vandalism, I hadn't known that, but I heard they did waste a lot of development time on technology that never panned out and the game ended up feeling unfinished in ways. Personnel changes surely didn't help. There were originally too few skin tones and way too few options for character creation overall. Andromeda just wasn't the game it should have been. I didn't feel motivated enough to keep going and finish it once I started hearing that the ending wasn't much to speak of. Maybe I gave up too easily, but something was missing, for me.

Larian will benefit from time. Many years have passed and saying up front "the whole Bhaalspawn thing is a story apart; we're going to do our own thing here related more to the city than to the first two games" is a good idea. It shows respect to the previous story that they aren't trying to coast on anyone else's laurels. Unlike Andromeda, they seem to have their tech figured out and their ducks in a row. I loved NWN2 even though it wasn't Bioware. I prefer it to NWN1, actually. I don't prefer KOTOR2 to KOTOR, though I do wish 2 had been properly finished--wish Obsidian had been doing back then what they've done for Pillars, then it would've been amazing. I truly think that people are more likely to get upset when it's the same developer as before and the story of previous titles isn't finished well. This being its own thing and made by another developer changes the game a bit.



Back to Baldur's Gate 3: My expectations for this game are being fulfilled so far. Characters I find intriguing and want to interact with, a proper D&D feel, a story I want to engage with, a world I want to survive in, the ability to play the class I like...and best of all, the romances don't seem to be so limited as they were in BG2 or many other games. Larian seems to get that people like playing different body types and races, but that most of the time we have to roll our eyes and suck it up and go "OKAY, I'll just play another stupid boring human because otherwise no one will want to bang me," and they're not doing that. Words cannot begin to express how delighted I am that my lady dwarf's bosom will not have to remain unoccupied (and that she will not be forced to have a beard.) I also know that I can kill things with my shoes, which I hadn't even expected. There you go, expectations already surpassed!

My two main causes of hesitation in what I've seen are character creation and tense.

I really want to have more control over facial features than DOS2 provided--at least, choosing individual features/colors. If it's too static, just set faces to choose from, I will be disappointed because I'm so used to customization. What I saw in DOS2 wasn't bad, and I could handle it if it's like that but more up to date... but I wouldn't be ecstatic, whereas really meaty character creation that tempts me to waste ridiculous amounts of time doing exactly what I want to do with it... that would make me ecstatic rather than just feeling like, "okay, I guess I'll deal with this but sigh in longing and hope mods come out soon." They might already have this on lock, or maybe there'll be enough races that I don't mind so much, and I do have to say I love what I've seen so far--but I'm just not sure yet, so I mention it as one thing that makes me go, "hmm" with uncertainty on how I'll feel.

The tense thing... I just don't love the way it's set up right now. I feel more involved and drawn in when I'm given present tense options, and if at all possible I prefer "What brings you to this tavern?" to *I asked her what brought her to the tavern.* The former is more Baldur's Gate to me, and it also feels more like I'm talking. I am more in the moment and in the experience that way--more roleplaying. I gave the current way a chance while watching, and I'm not opposed to options like, *I couldn't take the sorrowful expression on her face and gave her a warm hug*, but overall for dialogue I'd rather it look like dialogue, and I want it to feel like Baldur's Gate. So I can endure the current way, but I'd truly prefer if they changed their style for this specific game--let dialogue be dialogue, let the present be the present. I think that would help satisfy the more rabid of oldbies among us. (And I played BG2 when it came out, and BG1 shortly before that, so I am indeed an oldbie myself.)

I do have high standards, and I am not afraid to be vocal about them, but that doesn't mean I or the community are necessarily unreasonable. I don't expect exact replication or for the game to jump out of my computer, satisfy me, then go do my dishes. I just want the most important of the familiar staples along with the modern basics we're used to. If Larian makes it there, I will be more than delighted. And from playing DOS2 so far, I feel comfortable. They get the old school RPG feel. They gave me a world where I have opinions about things, characters I have feelings about, and let me murder anyone I think needs to be murdered. (Mostly Magisters. I just had a Special Moment with a really nasty one and it truly felt very nostalgic to then go through a harrowing combat to avenge the innocent person he just basically lobotomized.) That seems pretty right to me, and it makes me smile.

All in all, I don't wish this game was in the hands of anyone else than Larian, and I will keep updating my opinions, but I'm not worried in the way I sometimes have been. I feel more like I did before Inquisition--and I personally loved that, it was like an ES world with a Bioware plot/romances to me. I always used to say that if Bethesda ever learned to make stories like Bioware, or if Bioware ever learned to make game worlds like Bethesda, they'd own the market--greatly disagree with that meme.
Posted By: ZeshinX

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 17/04/20 04:17 AM

My expectations? I expect I'll ultimately enjoy the game for what it is and that I'll have plenty of things I like and dislike, a few things I'll love, a few things I'll hate...and that I'll still think this shouldn't have the '3' attached to the title and should just be Baldur's Gate: Neato Subtitle.

I also expect the Spanish Inquisition....just in case.
Posted By: Sordak

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 17/04/20 09:39 AM

i said it before, but i think the cusotmization thats been planned is insufficient.
Either have sliders, or at least different presets for not just the face but parts of the face.
different noses, different eyes, different facial shapes. at the veryleast

The game zooms into your face constantly in dialogue, i dont just want to pick from preset faces.

Hoenstly one of my biggest criticism with BG3 so far is that Larian seems to have this idea that people want to play pregenerated stuff.
be it visually or from a writing standpoint
They want to make a DnD game, i hear that.
but the biggest part of playing DnD from the start is making your own character
Posted By: Stabbey

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 17/04/20 03:17 PM

On the other hand, it's possible to go too overboard and have a billion sliders, like TES IV: Oblivion.

Videogames, by definition, ONLY have pregenerated content. Either stuff which the developers put in specifically, or put in systems which allow certain semi-emergent behaviors.
Posted By: Sordak

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 17/04/20 09:16 PM

well yes, and semi emergent behavou, player created content and thigns that dynamically react to players input, or stuf that is so dynamic that players can create truly new things with it, are some of the best parts of video games.

If you have tons of sliders, youll be able to create a unique character. And many other games have proven that to be the case.
If you dont like it, you can stick to the presets.
Posted By: etonbears

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 17/04/20 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by Stabbey
On the other hand, it's possible to go too overboard and have a billion sliders, like TES IV: Oblivion.

Videogames, by definition, ONLY have pregenerated content. Either stuff which the developers put in specifically, or put in systems which allow certain semi-emergent behaviors.


That depends on how you define "pregenerated" and how you define "content".

The operations/actions/activities/structure of the game are generally fixed. It IS possible to dynamically generate code ( although that is usually frowned upon ), and it is possible to design a game with loadable modules ( although this is rare for performance reasons ).

However, the data on which the game acts is often not known at compile time, or can be augmented at run-time, and increasingly is generated at run-time from pseudo-random, or completely random seeds.

What is true is that all today's standard computer designs will only ever do with data what they are programmed to do ( however tortuous that programming is ), such that "Artificial Intelligence" contains no capability for understanding context and developing reasoning.
Posted By: Doomlord

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 17/04/20 11:13 PM

I expect I will buy it. ( Have to have every D&D game made! )

I hope I don't feel the same way about this game, minutes into it like I did when I played Divinity original sin. But I expect I will.

Here's to hope!
Posted By: Wynne

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 19/04/20 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by Sordak
i said it before, but i think the cusotmization thats been planned is insufficient.
Either have sliders, or at least different presets for not just the face but parts of the face.
different noses, different eyes, different facial shapes. at the veryleast

The game zooms into your face constantly in dialogue, i dont just want to pick from preset faces.

Hoenstly one of my biggest criticism with BG3 so far is that Larian seems to have this idea that people want to play pregenerated stuff.
be it visually or from a writing standpoint
They want to make a DnD game, i hear that.
but the biggest part of playing DnD from the start is making your own character


YES. This is how I feel. If I can't have sliders, I would still like to be able to pick individual features, NOT just faces--then it feels like my creation just as when I select character portraits in tabletop. Let me pick eye shape, nose shape, and mouth shape individually; hopefully complexion as well (meaning freckles versus all one color versus flushed in the cheeks or other places). I don't at all want to go back to the 2003 days of set faces when I had to cross my fingers and hope I'd find something I liked and usually it was only one that I still wished I could tinker with, which I would then reuse on any subsequent playthroughs because I had no choice.

I understand if they want to limit things so nothing looks outrageously hideous or goofy, or--well, like this. (Profanity warning if anyone cares.) However, this is an old school roleplaying series based on tabletop, rather than being a series without set expectations. BG 1&2 offered a lot of freedom in terms of simply the ability to choose a portrait. I know they can't go that far here, but I hope they will still give us plentiful variety.

We're going to spend a lot of hours looking at our characters, on a much closer basis than in DOS2 because of the more realistic style, so ensuring we feel like it's our creation and familiar and unique rather than "oh, that's the standard drow face most people choose because it's the one that isn't ugly" is essential.

I did like what I saw so far, I could go with that cute Hill Dwarf face for sure, the drow isn't bad, the human I like, but what one can live with is not the same as what they'll love. I don't like a simple "face" option. I want to make the face and I have tremendous amounts of enjoyment from being able to do so. I like it when almost no one else's character looks exactly like my character, if anyone's, and you don't get that feeling with DOS2. It was all right for DOS2, but I'd feel disappointed in BG3. Generic isn't awesome.

I'm just always-always-always going to miss the option to choose individual features if it's not present in a game where you see the main character up close a lot. I've spent hours poring over threads where people posted what they made. That is a particular brand of nerdery in which I am heavily engaged whenever possible.

Presets are great for those who want to grab-and-go, but I'm not the impatient type. I like to create. I will sacrifice better stats on an item for a more fitting outfit. I will agonize over dialogue choices. The trimmings of RPGs all matter greatly to me.
Posted By: Sordak

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 19/04/20 08:41 AM

Id also like to point out that this game isnt having Portraits from what i can tell.

So i can tmake my own portraits and pretend thats what my character looks like.
as such, having in depth customization is a must have for me
Posted By: CPT_SLOW

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 19/04/20 10:22 AM

I really wish they would do portraits frown
But I suppose in depth customization would do frown
Why not both though laugh
Posted By: _Vic_

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 19/04/20 11:25 AM

In NWN2 you have both indeed, so It could be done.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: etonbears

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 19/04/20 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by CPT_SLOW
I really wish they would do portraits frown
But I suppose in depth customization would do frown
Why not both though laugh


Portraits were good when the character was essentially a sprite, but my recollection of BG1/2 is that they were mostly portraits of characters you met - very awkward meeting yourself!

I quite liked the way DA:O allowed you to do a "portrait picture" of your created character, choosing angle of view, facial posture, background colour etc. I thought that was a nice touch.
Posted By: Sordak

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 19/04/20 02:38 PM

which only realy works if you CAN create a unique character
Posted By: etonbears

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 19/04/20 08:33 PM

Like everything else in the game, customizable heads cost development effort that may be better spent elsewhere. I prefer to be able to make my characters look as pretty or dorky as the mood takes me, but it's not exactly a staple of cRPG games. Bioware's later games had it as do Bethesda games, but their budgets and sales expectations are generally higher.
Posted By: Emrikol

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 19/04/20 09:35 PM

Customizable faces ranks pretty low on my list of needs for a game like this. Not only are the characters generally smaller for the camera being frequently zoomed out (and thus, harder to discern much feature differentiation), but they also frequently wear helmets that hide the features anyway. I would much prefer customizable body types (e.g tall, short, fat, skinny, etc) if that didn't require much or any reworking (i.e. resources) of armor and clothing models to match the different body types.
Posted By: macadami

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 19/04/20 09:54 PM

I demand fully accurate tongue movements in all languages or I’ll take my money elsewhere, slacker devs.
Posted By: Wynne

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 20/04/20 03:20 AM

Yeah, DA1&2 did very well with allowing the player to create a simple portrait of whatever you made, I loved that--it made sure your character matched the style of the others and seemed to fit into the game seamlessly. BG1&2 didn't really have unique portraits, but I have slight art nerd tendencies, so I always went and found something off a search engine that I loved and maybe edited it to have the coloring I wanted. That was great in ways, but a bit jarring as the PC looked out of place in terms of portrait style.

I suppose they could do that in BG3. I wouldn't mind, but it's not necessary to me as long as I can make something that isn't cookie-cutter. It doesn't need to be full-on sliders for body parts and every detail of the face, but I can't imagine it costing that much development time or work to give us some version of the same tools they must be using to create the heads of NPCs. Especially not when it means so much to a lot of players--not everyone, but those ones will just select a preset, it's not like more options will do any harm. If they're making GM tools, won't GMs want and need that sort of tool to make their own NPCs anyway? A sea of identical faces isn't exactly immersive.

At the very least, I would want to see brows, eyes, noses, and lips each have their own different choice sections rather than all being lumped into "face." You can have so many more different combinations that way.

A couple of relevant quotes:

Quote
You will be able to select a face type, hairdo, facial hair, skin color. I cannot give numbers or details, because it’s still a work in progress, but there won’t be sliders.

Quote
We have more diversity in creation than in any other game we’ve done before. You’ll be able to mix and match a wide variety of defaults, to create something unique.

I admit, if there's something appealing about all of the default presets, I will mind less than otherwise, but the "face type" bit makes me nowhere near as happy as "work in progress," "more diversity", "mix and match a wide variety," and "create something unique" parts.

I guess we'll have to wait and see. If there were, say, a hundred faces for each gender to choose from instead of the ten to twenty I'd expect, and each looked a bit different depending on whether it was on a dwarven facial structure or an elven one, I'd be a lot more okay with this system than otherwise. I just don't like being limited to a small pool where I keep finding something I almost like, but then I hate the nose or the eyes aren't the right color or the eyebrows are weird and thready or it doesn't look the right age that I envisioned... character creation at its best is self-expression, and that can't happen if no options suit your vision for the character at least reasonably well.

On a similar note, it would be kind of amazing if characters commented on features they saw, I've never seen that done before. I don't expect it, but that would be pretty amazing if selections were grouped into families like "red" and "purple" and then your love interest or another character commented on your eye color. I know, not likely, I'm just putting it out there. Someone will surely do it someday.
Posted By: Ser Varnell

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 20/04/20 05:41 AM

I'll be happier with more content then taking up time and money w/ endless character customization. Especially since this is gonna be primarily a single player adventure w/ a lvl 10 cap. Then when they roll out the DM toolset we can mess around w/ all that. Just my personal opinion..
Posted By: Sordak

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 20/04/20 10:09 AM

tHe ArT tEaM iS rEsPoNsIbLe fOr tHE cOnTeNt aNd tHE lEvLe cAp
Posted By: Beeber

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 20/04/20 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Sordak
tHe ArT tEaM iS rEsPoNsIbLe fOr tHE cOnTeNt aNd tHE lEvLe cAp


WhY aRe YoU sPeAkInG lIkE tHiS?
Posted By: ZeshinX

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 20/04/20 04:16 PM

I suspect the character creation options will be barebones. I'm sure there will be a variety, but it will not be particularly comprehensive and will be "good enough" (meaning it won't please anybody, but will be enough to play without being entirely disappointing). Larian seems pretty set on massively pushing players to use the pregen characters given the amount of work put into them having involved backstory included in the narrative. I get the effort there and don't begrudge them that honestly, it's almost essential given everyone being voiced (a problem that does not exist with silent protags, which I've always preferred).

The major perceivable downside at this time (for me anyway) is that before you even begin play, the experience is already diminished if you create your own character from scratch (which with D&D, is entirely the damn point) when compared to the experience you'll see with a pregen character. You can fashion an incredibly compelling motivation and narrative agency in a character created from scratch (see Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 among the many that exist). Pregens give you more freedom on the creative side to add voiced dialogue throughout, obviously...but the character isn't yours. It's Larian's.

It won't stop me from playing it of course, but I'll certainly never use one of the pregens (as party NPCs, sure, but I will never choose to play as one). I would much rather have seen/heard of Larian putting all that effort into creating compelling options for player created characters...but what's done is done and I'm sure it'll be good enough.
Posted By: Stabbey

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 20/04/20 07:12 PM

People on this forums are continuously surprised that a videogame, which has to have all its content pre-created and inserted into the game ahead of time is more limited than what you can do with the power of imagination carefully regulated by a human controlling every step.

Posted By: ZeshinX

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 20/04/20 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by Stabbey
People on this forums are continuously surprised that a videogame, which has to have all its content pre-created and inserted into the game ahead of time is more limited than what you can do with the power of imagination carefully regulated by a human controlling every step.



Play Baldur's Gate 1 and/or 2 with a character you create. Then try it/them with one of the pregen characters. There is a difference. Perhaps not a significant one for yourself if you have done this (which is cool), but for many of us, it makes all the difference in the world. I'll not argue that games are, in their entirety, pregenerated content. Naturally they are, but the feeling/illusion of contributing, however minutely, your own little piece of creation within it is priceless to many who play them (certainly is for me). It's certainly not a mandatory thing to achieve in any game, even an RPG...but it is quite important to many folks when the potential for the option exists, especially when it's been there for previous entries in the series.

This game will have that, to be sure, though it certainly seems to be less of a priority for Larian than ensuring the pregens get all the attention they can muster for them. Now that's just a guess based on what's been revealed, which is admittedly not a great deal, so I (and others saying similar things) may be entirely off base in voicing these thoughts/feelings/opinions. As more and more is revealed I have no doubt my thoughts will change based on what new information comes to light. Time will tell.
Posted By: deathidge

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 20/04/20 08:52 PM

First, Swen confirmed that your own custom made characters are going to be far more important in the story than DoS1/2. But there's only so much they can anticipate since they can't write into the game script dialogue for every possibility. That's why they do pregenerated characters to begin with...they know the backstory and can speak to it specifically. With your custom made character, there is no way for them to guess your backstory and script the dialogue and story to it. They can get close, using you class, background, race, etc...but how much do you expect from them when there's no way for them to know more than that about your character? It would be too difficult to try and map certain NPC's into your specific backstory based on just class/race/background. And if they did...going into this game for the first time you'd have no idea who those NPC's even were. And then they probably wouldn't match up at all to what you had expected.

Now, maybe they have a questionnaire that they haven't disclosed or shown off yet where you can add some background information in for a more personal feel to the game. If there are those kinds of choices, you'll get a lot more of a personalized touch...but I see that requiring much more history/lore of Baldur's Gate than most people have.

I just have no idea how people can expect the depth of a custom character to be the same as a pregenerated one. Maybe Larian has found the secret formula to make that happen, who knows.
Posted By: Merlex

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 20/04/20 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by ZeshinX
... but I'll certainly never use one of the pregens (as party NPCs, sure, but I will never choose to play as one). I would much rather have seen/heard of Larian putting all that effort into creating compelling options for player created characters...but what's done is done and I'm sure it'll be good enough.


I agree with your points mostly. I am going to try Astarion, during early access only. I was already planning on playing an Arcane Trickster for my first run, he fits.

Posted By: Sordak

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 20/04/20 09:06 PM

Its a DnD game Stabbey, i think beeing able to make your own character is one of the most basic assumptions one can make when it comes to such a game
Posted By: Stabbey

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 20/04/20 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by Sordak
Its a DnD game Stabbey, i think beeing able to make your own character is one of the most basic assumptions one can make when it comes to such a game


Yes, it's a DnD game.

However, it is also a videogame. I'm sure Larian will try their best to do interesting things for custom characters, but a custom character you create in a videogame will never, ever have the personal attention to detail and the depth of story interactions that you can get with a human dungeon master that tailors a plot based on a player's character in a pen and paper RPG.

When BG 3 comes out, I'm sure that I can make a Halfling Wizard in the game. Will I be able to make the story of Wilbur Greenmeadow, who left his home and life as a gardener behind in an effort to prove himself just as worthy and as great a hero as Melvin Swiftcurrent, who retired back to Blueberry Hills Shire after a series of exciting adventures? Will I be able to fulfill Wilbur's objective to find his missing master, the Wizard who took him in and trained him as an apprentice only to vanish suddenly when Wilbur was running errands in town, leaving behind an abandoned and searched tower? I probably won't be able to do that.

All the input I can give to the game will be race, class, a background and maybe some granularity to the background (Wilbur will have the [Sage] background, with the subtype [Wizard's Apprentice]. And I don't even know if they'll implement the background subtype.) If Larian is really, REALLY ambitious, they might even allow you to select from a short list of "Bond","Ideal", Flaw". But I cannot and do not expect the game to be able to take into account the sort of specific backstory that you can have in a pen and paper RPG.
Posted By: Van'tal

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 20/04/20 11:11 PM

Having unrealistic expectations can kill an experience so fast....soooooo


I am expecting exactly what I have seen so far: An awesome PC 5e rule set champagne that is faithful to the RAW (Rules As Written).
It is very close to the desktop game, but it has come to life.

What I do Not expect is a sequel to Balders Gate 1 and 2. It is simply in the same region of the same world...ie Faerun (My favorite realm).

Te original BG was a different rule-set and a different time period in Faerun. Now many races are long lived compared to humans, so any of the elves, half-lings, or Elminster (one Mystra's chosen) are likely hanging out someplace.

hat said, this is an opportunity to showcase a brand new story in the same city.

There have been many great and classic stories from this realm. Drizzt had his own set of adventures. Elminster and the other Chosen of Mystra battled against numerous threats...the greatest of which was the attack against the "Weave". The curse of Strahd campaign has been released in more than one rule set. Tales from the Yawning Portal, The eye of the Beholder series, Myth Drannor, Haluura, The Underdark...and on and on.

If they make the game easily mod-able and release a tool-set then they will win.

I am hoping that the game is a success, and that I can look forward to future campaign modules...er um...games...yes that's what they are called... to be released.

Ok so Skyrim is one country in a bigger setting that shares a lore and history with say Morrowind. D&D is like that in it shares a lore and history with all its stories.


Wait and see list:

Engaging NPCs and an awesome story are in my hopeful category. (NPCs include those outside my party)

The story looks very promising, I am hoping for some interesting and challenging side-quests with multiple solutions.

Crafting and filler content can be addressed with mods.

Posted By: Nobody_Special

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 20/04/20 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by Stabbey
allow you to select from a shortlist of "Bond", "Ideal", Flaw".


This would be great and allow for further customization.
Posted By: _Vic_

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 21/04/20 12:14 AM

It would be great if you also can get some character variations that are "earned", not only chosen at start.

With that I mean introduce some rules that could also add or modify things about your character in the campaign, not only in character creation, depending on your choices in the campaign. I´m fond of that type of modifications that depends on your actions while playing, like campaigns with alignment changes tied to your doings or wrongdoings.

Something in the way of the "Fame and renown" or "Prestige" points or the old reputation system of 3.5 (because alignment is not going to be important or so they told us), different reputations with several factions, maybe titles that you can get in your adventures in the game, boons and curses, or character improvements that you can learn in your free time?
Posted By: Stabbey

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 21/04/20 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by Nobody_Special
Originally Posted by Stabbey
allow you to select from a shortlist of "Bond", "Ideal", Flaw".


This would be great and allow for further customization.


It would, but looking at the PHB, each of the 13 backgrounds (not counting variant backgrounds) has 8 possible background subtypes, and 6 each of Bond, Ideal, and Flaw. If they were to be more than just color, they'd need to be implemented somehow into the game. That's 22,464 lines of dialogue which would need to be put in, and that's just assuming that each thing only comes up ONCE.

You could probably merge or cut some similar options, but you get the idea. Everything in a videogame has to be put in ahead of time by the developers.
Posted By: KillerRabbit

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 21/04/20 04:28 AM

I expect it be BG3. I expect the game to feel like the Baldurs Gate series and not Divinity.

I expect

- The kitchen sink. All the of spells, all of classes and subclass and at least a dozen companions to recruit. Again, this is Icewind Dale 3, DOS3 or the next version or NWN. It's the game that became Bioware's flagship. The game that gave us everything. This is Star Wars, the sequel to the Lord of the Rings. You guys picked up the gauntlet -- we need as many companions as BG2 gave us.

- Detailed stories and banters for all companions -- these need to BG2 length and not DOS2 length. Sorry Beast you can't stay back there playing the taciturn dwarf I expect you speak at least as often as Korgan Bloodaxe did.

- Different strongholds for different classes

- Ability to use my own portrait and to fully control my avatar's appearance. Sure, I liked the forest hooker look of the DOS2 elves but if I want my thief to be clad in leathers and not leaves I should be able to do that.
Posted By: Sordak

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 21/04/20 06:22 AM

Stabbey stop fighting a point nobody made.

I dont expect a virtual DM.
I expect Sliders.

you slipery sloped right into a can of worms nobody opened.
Posted By: Wynne

Re: What are your expectations with this game? - 21/04/20 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by ZeshinX
Larian seems pretty set on massively pushing players to use the pregen characters given the amount of work put into them having involved backstory included in the narrative. I get the effort there and don't begrudge them that honestly, it's almost essential given everyone being voiced (a problem that does not exist with silent protags, which I've always preferred).

The major perceivable downside at this time (for me anyway) is that before you even begin play, the experience is already diminished if you create your own character from scratch (which with D&D, is entirely the damn point) when compared to the experience you'll see with a pregen character. You can fashion an incredibly compelling motivation and narrative agency in a character created from scratch (see Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 among the many that exist).

It won't stop me from playing it of course, but I'll certainly never use one of the pregens (as party NPCs, sure, but I will never choose to play as one).

From PCGamesN.com:

Quote
“This isn’t D:OS2,” senior writer Adam Smith says in a Reddit AMA. “In BG3, custom characters have a much stronger connection to the world and the main arc of the story – whether they’re from Baldur’s Gate, further afield, or somewhere else entirely (hey, githyanki). The campaign is much more reactive to your actions – when we say there are serious consequences to your choices, we really mean it – and as you move through your adventure, you’ll discover quest-lines and stories that relate directly to the character you’re roleplaying, and the things that you’ve done.”

So even if you don’t have a pre-baked backstory, your character’s place in the world will be determined by the parameters you’ve decided on – like if they’re Baldurian or from the Underdark – and the choices you make throughout the game.

You’ll even get full voice acting for custom characters. Larian founder Swen Vincke says “you’ll choose a voice as part of character creation – and your character will be fully voiced, not just for barks!”

So there you have it. They are aware of the problem and working on it. This isn't something they have no clue matters to anyone. Hopefully that's as heartening to you as it was to me when I read it.

I'm not completely against Origin characters. I actually really like Lohse in DOS2, though I got lucky there. Currently, however, neither Shadow nor Laezel is anything like what I'd want to play; in my first playthrough I always want to go for a character who's a kindred spirit to me. I like both but don't feel connected to them in a protagonistic sort of way. Only two female characters puts me at a choice disadvantage again, though at least this time the male characters aren't all water water everywhere. I mean, you go into DOS2 wanting to get it on with Beast or Red Prince or pre-mask Fane then you are VERY different from me. *lol* Just saying. But I digress.

I do like Origins to a degree, but this time I don't yet see one I'd want for myself, and I'm far more excited to play a drow or half-drow and a dwarf and an aasimar, maybe a tiefling. I think the tags are also a very good system. Ideal, for me, is something like in Inquisition where the game knows things about your character based on what you chose to be--if you're a mage, that has a huge effect. An elven mage was raised among the Dalish, a nomad, rather than being part of the Circle Tower a human would've been cloistered in. A qunari mage is lucky to not be truly qunari anymore, but a Tal-Vashoth mercenary, because they haven't had their eyes and mouth stitched shut like the saarebas. Racism in the setting and cultural variations have different effects as well even for non-mages.

That sort of setting variety IS present here. If you're a warlock, for instance, or a noble, or a drow, there's a lot that can be done with that. I hope it will be so, and more pervasive but less restricting than being an undead in DOS2. Bring on the tags, I say.

Originally Posted by Stabbey
a custom character you create in a videogame will never, ever have the personal attention to detail and the depth of story interactions that you can get with a human dungeon master that tailors a plot based on a player's character in a pen and paper RPG.

I'm confused as to what your goal is with this. It's like walking onstage at a theater event about to begin and saying "Hey, hey guys, you know what? This isn't a movie, it's a stage play. It's a stage play not a movie. They can't do as much as a movie can. The whole building won't explode like in movies. You didn't know so I'm telling you." Well... actually, we did know, and we bought our tickets knowing such, but we still have some reasonable expectations for what we want to see based on previous stage plays we've seen and that is fine and normal, we're just talking about those expectations and what would satisfy us. Since Larian's interviews imply they are pushing the envelope now that they have grown in their capabilities, we are hardly amiss to do so. Their own community update says "It has always been Larian’s plan to create games that allow you to play however you wish." Discussing our hopes for how that will be achieved is par for the course on a message board about an upcoming game.

Originally Posted by _Vic_
It would be great if you also can get some character variations that are "earned", not only chosen at start.

With that I mean introduce some rules that could also add or modify things about your character in the campaign, not only in character creation, depending on your choices in the campaign. I´m fond of that type of modifications that depends on your actions while playing, like campaigns with alignment changes tied to your doings or wrongdoings.

Something in the way of the "Fame and renown" or "Prestige" points or the old reputation system of 3.5 (because alignment is not going to be important or so they told us), different reputations with several factions, maybe titles that you can get in your adventures in the game, boons and curses, or character improvements that you can learn in your free time?

YES. I like this idea so much! I was just thinking how unsatisfying flat positive/negative reputation is. There was a hero tag you could earn in DOS2--maybe something like that, but a bit more complex, like hero points that could be offset with villain points. If you have 10 hero points, people think you're dashing and expect you to rescue them when you show up. 10 villain points, and they run for the hills. If you have 5 hero points and 5 villain points then they're just confused and nervous. *lol*

Among companions, a more personal reputation would be amazing. You could get callousness points, so you're not the one people turn to when they're upset or need something, or empathy points so that they are. Would be harder to implement but very rewarding to see the companions grow to expect you to act a certain way. I like it when significant moments are recorded in some way and come back to haunt you. Even a small measure of that sort of thing makes you feel like you're having an impact and really roleplaying.
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