Larian Studios
Posted By: deathidge General Thoughts about Gameplay - 05/05/20 12:47 AM
In no particluar order of importance, just some general thoughts about what we've been shown (which is obviously pre-EA so all subject to change, yada yada...) I like pretty much all of what I have seen and so I won't list what I like. What I tend more towards 'disliking' is:
- over-the-top animations for mundane things, like leap, etc. I would rather it be a simple, mundane animation to make things that actual deserve a cool animation better.
- party based initiative
- DoS-inspired world building; DoS world size wasn't really that big. It seems bigger than it is because of the amount of enemies but if you just straight run its like 2 or 3 minutes per act. I wish we could have a more open-world feel and just bigger world in general to explore
- past-tense dialogue...which seems to be an almost universal dislike.
- no plans for DLC. I dislike knowing there won't be anything more to the game...however, i would take it off this list if it was because they are taking no breaks and jumping right into Baldur's Gate 4

Some of my hopes for things that have not been shown/discussed yet:
- I hope I can create an entire team of however many they end of going with (4,5,6, etc) of generic NPCs without having to use any of the pregenerated characters. I disliked in DoS2 that I was forced to choose campanions with a backstory. Now, I get that this might be a bit bland by not having anyone with a storyline built into the game for any of the pre-recorded dialogue options...but I would like that. I want to go find some random NPC to hire of any race/class combo.
- I hope they are taking the time to create a massive repertoire of D&D monsters; i want to BE in the Forgotten Realms and fight loads of different kinds, from elementals to giants, dragons, undead, goblinoids, magical beasts, devils, demons, oozes, trolls, etc etc etc. We know there will be illithids/mind-flayers, intellect devourers, undead skeletons, goblinds, worgs, and bubgears (and all the humanoid races that we can play) so far.
- I hope for a loot system that is not overblown like DoS; by that I mean I hope you can't just make tons of money by selling things like candles and boxes.
- I hope they make magic items as rare as 5E indended them to be. A +1 sword isn't necessarily game-breaking but it's expensive to make and we really shouldn't be getting too many too fast. It needs to feel like a treasure instead of loot...if that makes sense.
Posted By: deathidge Re: General Thoughts about Gameplay - 08/05/20 02:21 AM
Something else I noticed while rewatching the PAX East gameplay, Swen looted 29 gold off of the first corpse that he came across. That really sucks. Some of the funnest parts of D&D is working my way up from finding/looting copper to silver then to gold as you gain more levels. This makes me think the trading system is just going to be ported over from DoS2 instead of redone for D&D. There was also bread, cheese, and apples on the corpse. Unless they plan to, for some odd reason, add a hunger survival thing to the game then I don't see the point of adding in a bunch of different kinds of food to loot. If eating a piece of bread heals you or gives you some kind of buff...man, what a damn shame. This really is just a DoS2 in D&D clothes. No more need for potions.
Posted By: Stabbey Re: General Thoughts about Gameplay - 08/05/20 03:03 AM
Pre-alpha. Loot tables can be adjusted. It could be that in the unfinished state of the game at this time, Larian only is using a single gold currency. It's not like there was anything to spend gold on.
Posted By: Sordak Re: General Thoughts about Gameplay - 08/05/20 12:32 PM
>currency
as if thats a thing in most campaigns.
for the most part, money is somethign that gets ignored a lot in most campaigns (inb4 whaa whaa my super special campaign thats super serious and totaly happened)

its usually a hassle on the DM, id like to point out that other contemporary CRPGs like Kingmaker have that exact same "issue"
Posted By: deathidge Re: General Thoughts about Gameplay - 08/05/20 03:45 PM
Currency is a critical part, at least IMO it should be, of all D&D campaigns. Many campaigns spend a decent amount of time in cities shopping and searching for things. A great example is Critical Role. Hate 'em or love 'em, they do a great job showing why currency is important. There have been many time they went into a city looking for or wanting to buy certain items and they couldn't because they didn't have enough gold. This is D&D, not any other CRPG. If your players walk into a city looking for +1 weapons/armor, do you just say "ok you go and find it and put it on"?



Posted By: deathidge Re: General Thoughts about Gameplay - 08/05/20 04:28 PM
Reading through the Community update #2, I agree with a lot of people that that the jump, among other actions, shouldn't be bonus actions. If they make it so that jump doesn't have its own movement pool, that would help. So if you run your full movement you can use the jump bonus action, if you run 15ft then you can only jump 15ft, etc. Though they may have that built in already.
Posted By: Stabbey Re: General Thoughts about Gameplay - 08/05/20 09:05 PM
I don't see a problem with the game eventually having three currencies. Computers are great at managing numbers. It could show you how much gold you have, and if you have Silver left over which doesn't divide into 10, it can show you how many silver pieces you have. If you have copper left over which doesn't divide into 10, it can show you how much copper you have left. Tooltips you hover over remind you that 10 Copper = 1 Silver, 10 Silver = 1 Gold. Or there are some other ways it could be done.

I definitely don't think the Jump (Disengage) should be something any class can do on every turn, as that steps too much on those classes which get it as bonus features. At most, it should be one disengage per battle for other classes (so you need to pick it carefully), Rogues get it once a round.
Posted By: deathidge Re: General Thoughts about Gameplay - 08/05/20 09:16 PM
I think it shouldn't have disengage built it, should definitely still draw an AoO, unless used by a rogue that has the disengage bonus action. Just seems OP if anyone can you jump/disengage every round as a bonus action.
Posted By: Stabbey Re: General Thoughts about Gameplay - 09/05/20 01:29 AM
If anyone could do it every round, yes. But as to your idea of it "definitely drawing an AoO", that entirely defeats the purpose of it existing, so if you're going to do that, just skip to the next logical step and delete it.
Posted By: SorcererVictor Re: General Thoughts about Gameplay - 09/05/20 02:20 AM
Originally Posted by Sordak
> money is somethign that gets ignored a lot in most campaigns


Not true for campaigns where survival or managing something is ultra important. On critical role campaigns, currency is important.

But talking about games, If you wanna max out your barony stats on kingmaker, you need to manage build points, time and gold. Same on NWN2 Crossroad keep. On BG2, your objective on chapter 2 is to raise a lot of money and you also has a lot of expenses to do the quests, purchasing gear, bribing a guard to have a magical license, etc. On Dark Sun Shattered Lands, money is extremely important since any metal weapon is insane expensive, and any magical weapon extremely expensive, any magical scroll ludicrous expensive and so on.

It is a hassle to the DM, but for a computer, it is not. If i an DMing and currency is that important on the campaign, i will only keep track of bigger pictures. And will have the currency extremely deflated. To the point that one gold can buy a lot but is also hard to make one gold coin. Keeping numbers low helps to manage things.
Posted By: deathidge Re: General Thoughts about Gameplay - 09/05/20 02:41 AM
Originally Posted by Stabbey
If anyone could do it every round, yes. But as to your idea of it "definitely drawing an AoO", that entirely defeats the purpose of it existing, so if you're going to do that, just skip to the next logical step and delete it.


Theyve stated, iirc, that jump is to get to vertical locations you couldnt otherwise get to. By the rules, if you move out of reach of an opponent they get an attack of opportunity. Now, you can just jump every round and never get an AoO. Jump to get around AoO does not exist in PnP so im not sure why its critical to the game in your eyes. I like the feature but i hope they take out the disengage feature or you'll literally never draw an AoO...just jump.
Posted By: Ser Varnell Re: General Thoughts about Gameplay - 09/05/20 04:35 AM
So is Jump a bonus action or not bcuz if it is a bonus action I can see the benefit of having it if its NOT a bonus action and it incurs an AoO then what would even be the point of jumping instead of running away?
Posted By: Sordak Re: General Thoughts about Gameplay - 09/05/20 07:38 AM
>critical role
theres your problem
>survival campaigns
probably less about managing currency and more about managing ressources.


this entire complaint seems to be needlessly petty
Posted By: deathidge Re: General Thoughts about Gameplay - 09/05/20 01:30 PM
Originally Posted by Ser Varnell
So is Jump a bonus action or not bcuz if it is a bonus action I can see the benefit of having it if its NOT a bonus action and it incurs an AoO then what would even be the point of jumping instead of running away?


Yes it's a bonus action and acts as a disengage as well.
Posted By: Stabbey Re: General Thoughts about Gameplay - 09/05/20 03:55 PM
Originally Posted by deathidge

Theyve stated, iirc, that jump is to get to vertical locations you couldnt otherwise get to. By the rules, if you move out of reach of an opponent they get an attack of opportunity. Now, you can just jump every round and never get an AoO. Jump to get around AoO does not exist in PnP so im not sure why its critical to the game in your eyes. I like the feature but i hope they take out the disengage feature or you'll literally never draw an AoO...just jump.


I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. I never, ever said it was critical to the game in my eyes. I am saying that your proposed option does not make sense. I'll say this again:

There's no point in having jump as a disengage option which provokes an AoO*, because LITERALLY THE ENTIRE POINT of a disengage action is to NOT provoke an AoO.

If the purpose of the Jump is to get to locations, then it should only work OUT of combat.


* (Assuming that the enemy doesn't have the Sentinel feat.)
Posted By: deathidge Re: General Thoughts about Gameplay - 09/05/20 05:12 PM
I never proposed having jump as a disengage option; literally the opposite. That is how it appears to be right now in the presentation video, and I don't agree with it if that is true. So it looks like we're talking around each other and making the same point; jump shouldn't be a disengage feature. If it is allowed to be used in combat, it should provoke an attack of opportunity unless you have the disengage as a bonus action ability, like the rogue. I think it should still be allowed to be used in combat because there may be times you could get to vertical locations for height advantage that you couldn't otherwise get to. Sorry for misunderstanding your view.
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