So, I could make this one long philosophical post about the pros and cons of early access....sorry to disappoint. A much simpler discussion.

How much is early access going to hit my wallet? Any news on that regard.

:)

Full game price I assume. $60? Just guessing.

Price isn't announced yet, but I'd agree with Wormerine in that it's better to set fair expectations and rather be positively surprised if any lower price is thrown at our wallet 😊

It will be the full price in part because they want to encourage those to buy Early Access because they want to help find bugs and improve gameplay, rather than just playing the game early. There will also be no pre-order bonus or other incentives to buy early, the price on release will be the same as early access so those who want the final finished product should just get that.

Hopefully,. Larian is not Taleworlds

From Steam page.

Larian does have a good reputation here since both DOS and DOS2 were both early access games before coming to full release and they did take customer feedback seriously to make the games better.

I'm guessing $60.

There's a fairly stubborn guy on the Steam forums who keeps posting/repeating ad nauseum that EA should be free anytime EA is mentioned, and arguing that Larian wouldn't charge for it if they didn't need the money.

I tried to suggest he should register an account here (which I stressed was free), and make his case here instead so Larian employees could at least see his feedback, if he feels that strongly about it....but of course his response to that was 'he's not that invested in BG3'.

I'm not sure he'd last that long if he derails every topic where EA is mentioned...

You are right, and my guess is that's more to the point of why he won't really come over here.

Larian at some point really needs to assign a company admin moderator over there by the time EA releases to be honest. It's been fairly ugly at times.

The cost should be half price for EA, due to the fact that there will be no real time combat. ( couldn't help myself)

USD 59.99 per Swen:

https://youtu.be/S5__muccL1c?t=2192

Thanks for the video, It was new to me. Question, Swen made it sound IMO, that the price was just for EA, I got the impression that we will have to buy the game when its released as well? I sure hope not.

No, you're paying for the full game release - in essence you're pre-ordering and then getting to play in the first third or so of the game content early, as they continue to develop new elements and tweak/balance existing ones. Then when full release is ready you'll be patched up to full 1.0.

Thats what I had thought when I first heard about EA. Never purchased a EA game before. Thanks Tyndaleon for the heads up.

There are usually risks involved, but in this case it´s a safe bet they´ré going to make the game.

take my money.....

Still, full price for EA. Full price is what we pay for a full game. I will buy EA, don't get me wrong, but still, every early access I've bought has had a lowered price tag because the game was still in development and not yet fully released.
If this game was going to release fully in like 2-6 months, I would not say anything on the price, but it may be years before full release for all I know. Feel like the price may be a tad high.

Price being the same all the time at least people don't feel forced to "pre order" it before it comes out of early access.

I actually prefer it this way. I find if game in EA is cheaper then 1.0 I feel pressured to buy now, even if I don't intend to play EA. Lower prince EA makes sense, as the product has lower value, but it also make sense to to do it, if you don't want to invite people to jump in early outside providing feedback.

If you want, you can think of Early Access like a preorder, only you get the following bonuses:
- you will greatly influence the game at launch
- can actually play it instead of waiting a year
- have access to unparalleled transparency over its development

It’s additional value, not subtractive
👍

I'm sure they have a minimum number of people they would like to have in EA for testing purposes. If they discover there aren't enough people, that will be a good indication that the price is too high and they will lower it. If they are satisfied with the number of people, then the price is justified.

Interesting how you could manage to make your post here (after several obvious edits at least) palatable vs. the pointedly flame-baiting troll version you made on the Steam forums (that was since deleted) where you knew you could get away with it. I notice you didn't pointedly call out Larian for being 'greedy' here

As someone else pointed out elsewhere, alot of EA's involve independent developers or smaller dev teams, etc, so how EA is handled, whether discounted or free, is a different contextual framework there. Larian is well known at this point, on top of developing a AAA game using the most recognizable roleplaying IP/system in the world....so to expect even a discount in this context isn't really logical. And as has been stated already, you're not paying for EA, you're paying for the full game ahead of time, and being granted the ability to play a bit of the game now and help provide feedback for refinement of the game, *if you even choose to* - and you don't have to make that choice if you don't want. You could instead wait until full release and pay the exact same price for the game then if you don't feel comfortable paying for it now.

So I get to both pre-order the game AND play it, AND help make it better.

Sounds like a good deal to me.

That's basically full game price LMAO

Correction: It is full game price. As expected.

Well, if you saw all the childish answers on steam, there was no point in continuing the conversation there.

Yes, I think it is greedy to have people pay full price for something that is essential a alpha/beta, even if they call it early access.
If they want people to test the game, give people alpha/beta keys. If they want money, make people pay for the beta key and call it early access. I'm not saying early access is bad, but it is still just early access.

Personally, I have never seen a company put a full game price tag on a early access before, specially not a $60 price. And the reasoning behind the full price tag was that Baldurs Gate 3 was bigger and more expensive than Original Sin 1 and 2. Just because one game is biggger and more expensive than another, does not make it worth more as a Early Access title. This is why I think it is greedy.

Larian are going to reinvest the money they get from Early Access in order to make the game as good as possible so they can maximize sales when they fully release the game. I’m very much okay with this. I was going to spend $60 to preorder the game, anyway. I don’t see the problem with paying full price for Early Access.

Steam discussions are always pretty terrible, I think the accessibility of them are a big reason why. It's so easy to get there that it's a quick and easy outlet for all sorts of degenerate behavior.




This is exactly what they did, I guess you just don't like the price. Early access doesn't always mean a discount, yeah a lot of games do it (I mostly see the ones that end up spending 5 years in EA do it, which BG3 is hopefully not going to be one of those), but plenty also do not. 60 bucks may be high but for the quality we can rightfully expect from Larian, I definitely see the value in it.

And of course you don't have to buy into EA. You can always wait for the full game to justify the price tag.



So if they're putting a larger investment into the game, with double the staff and significantly more complexity and all that, you don't see how they can justify charging more out the gate? I mean that all seems perfectly reasonable to me. If the cost to produce something is higher, that usually translates into the cost to consumers.

They aren't having you or us do anything.

Taleworlds did it a few months ago with Mount & Blade 2 : Bannerlord.
Not a problem to me... I can choose to buy it now or at release and I can choose to become a "beta tester" or not, whatever is the price.

I'm a regular participant on the Steam forum, I was actually one of the people who responded to you, and the responses were not childish at all....they were simply refuting your opinion with actual logic and fact. And you do yourself no favors when your first post out the gate basically is telling everyone that if they don't agree with you, they're delusional and wrong.

Also, comparing a hardware appliance such as a tv to a piece of gaming software is more than a bit of a ridiculous comparison - its not even comparable to apples vs oranges, but rather more like apples to socket wrenches.

Crowdfunded games have you pay MORE for early access.

Here is the thing: if you are not sure if you won't to buy Baldur's Gate3 - then don't buy it yet. Larian doesn't want to encourage people to buy in early, if they are not already interested in BG3 - they have been vocal about it, and pricing supports it. You have nothing to gain by buying to EA - you will get the worse experience and you pay the same as if you wait. If you are interested in BG3, however, and want to provide feedback and be a Guinea Pig for their experiments - you can pre-order the game and test it. If you are not interested in it - wait for 1.0.

EDIT. As mentioned before, there are titles that release for full price in EA. It is uncommon, and generally business model wants people to buy in early (aka. we need money to actually work on the game). Not so much in this case (Can't speak about Larian's budget but 1) with that scale it would be silly to count on EA money to finish the project 2) they said it: Buy EA only if you want to make the game better.

Oh, hey Tyndaleon, good to see you here and not just over there.

Likewise sir. /bow

No one is going to force you to buy Early Access. There is not going to be any preorder bonus or incentive given to Early Access backers which people who buy it on launch won't get. If you feel the price is unfair, then don't buy it. It's really simple.

I do believe that's the point. They're displeased with the price, and won't buy it - and being vocal because they feel strongly about it.

Never seen a game in beta who cost that much. I'm not paying this price for a beta game, you guys should be high on something. And congratulation on the italian translation, fucking liars

Hmm...

Ignoring the "greedy" aspect of things, there is someting of a conundrum here for some of us.

I like video game RPGs, FR games in general and the previous BG games in particular, but did not really like D:OS, partly because for video games I am exclusively SP, and the Larian style recently is really focused on what makes a good co-op game. So, as things stand, I don't have certainty that I will want to play BG3, am therefore unlikely to join EA to give feedback, making it less likely the final game will be something I want to buy..

So, if the purpose of EA is to improve the game, but it is full price, it is unlikely to attract any but those that would have purchased the final product regardless of EA. You get something of an echo chamber effect, and are likely to get a more restricted range of feedback.

As this is not a means of gaining funding, one would not expect to receive access to the 1.0 release for anything less than the normal full price; but, an alternative might be a lesser EA price, which can be "upgraded" for the full game. I don't expect this to change, but there is some logic to it.

I am of the understanding, perhaps mistakenly (which would definitely change things if so) that we will not need to purchase 1.0 if we already paid for EA. If I am correct, then it is in Larian's best interest to list EA for the full price of $59.99, since as you said, a lot of people who would buy 1.0 will buy and play EA too, and would in effect end up getting the game for a cheaper price, thereby undercutting (perhaps severely) Larian's expected profits. For example, if they are hoping to have 1 million sales in the first year, that is 60 million in expected revenue. If 300k of those 1 million people bought the game via EA for $30, Larian would need to charge almost $73 for the remaining 700k people who buy 1.0 to make up the difference. If we will need to purchase 1.0 for another $59.99, then that is another matter entirely. We should get some official clarification on this.

I have no problem with paying full price for early access because Larian has earned my trust with their previous early access games with DOS and DOS2. They have a larger team for this game, got hit with the Wuhan Flu and had to work at reduced capacity. They have a proven track record and they have been very open and honest about where the game is.

Heck, I was practically convinced to pay full price back in February because they did a live playthrough of the game as it was then, bugs and all. We know exactly what we're getting and Larian isn't pulling a AAA big-name publisher stunt to try and elevate sales.

That kind of integrity deserves to be rewarded.

You are.

That's good to know. Thanks for clarifying.

Well, If comments like these are not childish, then we have different opinions on what childish comments are.
"Nebbit sounds like Panda with a different account."
"Also noting Nebbit ^ is setting out to be a one-trick pony of a forum troll"
"Shut up. Just don't buy it during EA. Buy it when if fully releases. And shut the hell up."

Yes I compared it to a tv, but it does not matter what I would compare it to, the point would still be the same, replace "tv" with anything else. I guess you just didn't get my point, and I might have written it poorly, English is not my main language.

I'm just saying that early access is early access, it is not a preorder. A preorder is a preorder. Yes, the price you pay will give you the full release at the end, but you are still not paying for the full release, you are paying for early access. Greedy might be a bad choice of words, I just don't know a better word for it.
Yes, this game will most likely be worth more than others, not saying it wouldn't. What I'm saying is that early access, is just that, early access. And should then have a early access price. If the game at full release is worth $60, then early access should be less. like $45 - $50.
I might be the only one to think this way though

Yes, I know I don't have to buy the game if I don't want to pay the $60. I will pay the $60, and I will probably love the game, but I feel like I'm still allowed to think the price is too high and that I'm allowed to put my thoughts into the discussion.

Some miscommunication here, I think.

What I meant was, if EA gives you 1/3 of the game's content to try and comment on, then one option might be to pay 1/3 of the price just for that content. When the full game comes out, you pay the remaining 2/3 of the price to "upgrade" EA to the 1.0 release. The cost for the full game is the same ( no-one gets the full game cheaper ); the only difference is that if the full game does not turn out to your liking after feedback from EA, you needn't purchase the "upgrade" to the full game.

As I said, I don't expect this to happen, and consequently their feedback may be limited to those people very enthusiastic for what they see already.

You know what's also childish?

Deleting every post in the Steam forums so the only chance anyone has to see what you said and the arguments you want to make are in the quote boxes of people responding to you on the Steam forums.

Here's the direct response from someone to "nebbit sounds like Panda with a different account."



That was a respectful response, because your determination about the price and not getting early access were very much like a user named pandariuskairos who made it very clear that they opposed early access and wanted it free because they didn't want to pay to be a beta tester.

"Also noting Nebbit ^ is setting out to be a one-trick pony of a forum troll."

You were making every single thread, even those not related to early access or pricing, all about pricing for early access and calling Larian greedy. I can't even quote your comments and name the threads they're in because all your posts mysteriously got deleted.

"Shut up. Just don't buy it during EA. Buy it when it fully releases. And shut the **** up."

You did make every thread about it and wouldn't stop talking about it, as previously stated.

Can't prove it or provide links, because all the posts were deleted.

Regardless, keep it nice and civil.

It's 60 bucks because it's D&D and they know very well they can get away with it. Larian would be stupid for selling it any cheaper. Even if it was 80 bucks people would still buy it and common sense be damned.

I don't think they have any incentive to do that. You would sell something for $20 if someone was willing to pay $60 for it, even if that 'something' was unfinished? It's not a trial offer; it basically a pre-order that you can playtest. As for the feedback, I don't see any reason to believe that the 'very enthusiastic' people (as a whole) won't be able to offer good constructive criticism. I also expect they are likely to put more time in testing the game than people who aren't so enthusiastic. On the flip side, a $20 EA could easily see an influx of nay-sayers. haters, trolls, etc. who will pass judgement on the game for ridiculous reasons (e.g bugs or lack of desired elements like RTwP).

Fine, I'll be happy to address each of those:

#1 is simply a statement of observation, nothing more, and one that was 100% on point/accurate. #2 was actually posted by me, and again, is simply a statement of observation that was 100% on point/accurate by all observable evidence (and, interesting that you conveniently omitted the rest of the statement of mine you're quoting that precisely showed why the half-quote you're pulling out was said). #3, If you wish to characterize that as supposedly childish, then fine, let's assume it was childish.

However, If you wish to make such claims then, you must also hold the mirror up to your own face and judge your own actions by the same standard you are holding others to. When we do that, the character and tone of your entire post was childish because, for starters, it was your first post in the forum (and thus no one had any prior interaction to go on to judge you otherwise), you attempted to use half-baked logic to try and present your flawed opinion as fact, you mischaracterized Larian's stance as 'greedy', which most of the more 'mature' of us completely understand and recognize Larian's intention having an EA period after preorders launch differently...and finally and most importantly, your posting history on Steam showed you to be a troll poster who's only other posts were in the forum of another game that none of the rest of us had ever heard of, and the post subject for those posts was the exact same trolling mantra there too: EA should be discounted or free.

So, you had no presence in nor engagement with the BG3 Steam community until you suddenly appeared with that post, and you characterized everyone who didn't agree with your flawed opinion as being delusional and wrong if they didn't agree with your flawed opinion. Additionally, you came around out of the woodwork at a time in which we'd already had several other troll posters (including one lingering guy in particular who interjected his skewed opinion of EA everytime it was mentioned in every thread ad nauseum who since got himself banned) trying to push the same agenda. But, bottom line, by your own standard you're judging others, you fall victim to the same classification yourself, and furthermore then a hypocrite in doing so.

So, let me make a suggestion on how to make a truly mature post in this context: Simply state: 'I can only speak for myself, but I was hoping that EA would be discounted, and I'm disappointed by that fact for (XYZ real world reasons that pertain to my financial circumstances or otherwise philosophical perspective, etc.)....but it is what it is. I'll continue to weigh what I see come out and determine if I'm willing to pay the price being asked for the game during EA phase, but otherwise, I'll wait and pay that same full price at launch.'



That is an opinion, but it is not factual. Let's analyze this with logic and reason, with the facts at hand, shall we?

1. If Larian opened up the ability to pay for the game on September 30th, and was not conducting any Early Access period, by very definition in actual fact - -that is exactly what a preorder is.

2. Even though EA *is* going to be conducted, you are paying for the fully released game ahead of time regardless. You don't pay one price for EA, and another price for full release. This has been confirmed multiple times, including by Raze, who is a Larian rep on this forum, just yesterday.

3. Taking facts #1 and #2 into account, that by process of extrapolation then means that, whether you (a) purchased the game on September 30th, but never fired up the game one single time to play before the eventual date of full release, or (b) you decided to play through any part of the EA period, which limits you to only content in the first segment of the game - you are preordering the full game either way.

So bringing it all back home and taking your post content here, if we're going to use the characterization of 'childish' in proper application, a child is usually the person who throws a tantrum because they didn't get exactly what they wanted, didn't get it when they wanted, or didn't get it how they wanted. Thus, your mischaracterization of Larian as being 'extremely greedy' for, heaven forbid, asking people to preorder a game for the same price they'll be asking for it at launch, in a scenario in which it is 100% optional whether you want to participate in the Early Access period - at the same time they've actively stated that, if you're expecting a fully polished game experience, please *do not* particpate - comes across to most of us as not a remotely mature reaction, and certainly not constructive feedback.

As to your last sentence: absolutely you are allowed to feel the price is too high on a personal level, and allowed to put your thoughts into the discussion. All of us have our own unique perspectives on things in the world, not just BG3. Just perhaps try to do so in a more mature manner that characterizes your opinion solely *as* your opinion/perspective and nothing else....and be willing to accept when people don't agree with you. I'd probably still have judged you as a forum troll based on your Steam posting history the same way regardless if I'm being honest about it, but I'd be much less critical of the Steam post being referenced if you had omitted the last few paragraphs and not tried to make commentary about others' perspectives going in.

Oh dang, Larian forums clap-back be like backstab crit. 😂😂😂

Valleys and trunks, I got the mack ten
We can hit the alley with iron and thumper
Take it to the hands like the brand new Leonard
N——z goin' no mas, when the bullets go in him
You dealing with a night stick toker
The ice pick poker, trust, you ain't like this joker
And the set, devoted to opening your neck
With the tech, as you sit in a Lex'
Your next move, is slipping, your last move is s——n
As your body gets soft, the shotty went off
Little soldiers, you're out of position

Ha! DM, i didn't see your response to him until after I'd posted my own, but I forgot to toss out that aspect as well - but you're exactly right there. I'm not sure if that actually *is* Panda on another account or not though - the writing style seems different for one thing, and if it were Panda again he/she would probably have been pushing 'Free' again instead of 'discounted'.

These are excellent points, and one other I'd interject is the added complexity (and potential cost) on Larian's part to have to break up and manage things that way. And if they did that, while Steam might or might not be able to support that approach somehow, I wouldn't even have a clue as it relates to Stadia.

I imagine already as it relates to Steam, if Larian does provide any semblance of a 'Collector's Edition' down the road, they already would have to determine a way to logistically do that too, such that Steam systemically validates each case, and only those that paid the base price game then has the ability to use an 'upgrade' purchase package button for a CE.

I want to preface this by saying I am intending to buy EA.

I think it's a bit dishonest to refer to buying Early Access as a 'pre-order'. A couple of problems come about with that line of thinking, and I'll do my best to sum them up.

1.) Early Access is a formative experience. It's not a demo, it is a release version of the game, unfinished or not. The reason this is important, though, is that if someone buys the game under the impression that the game will come out as it has currently be seen, they may end up disappointed with the purchase when the finished version of the game is patched in, or even just on one of the larger EA updates. This is a level of uncertainty that makes it a risky (even if only to a small degree) consumer decision.

2.) Early Access is both a funding source and a source of feedback and data collection from end-users. Many people understandably view it in the same light as paying to access a beta. Is it new? No, but for some it does come off as a greedy motion. A way to tease players with some early time with the game while Larian profits off of it, instead of spending time, money and other resources on getting playtesting done without EA. It's nice on the surface to feel like you have an impact on the game's development, but realistically it's hard to prove that your view for the game is any more (or less) represented in either scenario.

Again, I personally intend to invest in EA, and don't find the structure of the game's development cycle to be anything untoward. But I can understand those that do.

It certainly can be; and for that very reason, I think it is better to keep the price higher to keep out more of those who would unjustifiably pan the game.


You can't help stupid. If someone buys EA and doesn't know what that entails, then that's on them. That being said, however much the game might change between 9/30/2020 and release, I doubt it will be so substantially different so as to make someone do a 180 (or even a '90').


Larian will make no more or less of a profit this way. And I don't see how EA diminishes their use of time, money, etc. Seems like a win-win to me.


Not sure what you mean here. Are you saying that there is no good reason to think that our feedback in EA is going to have any real impact on the end result?

I understand you are on board and are just trying to illustrate a different viewpoint, and that's cool. Ultimately, all opinions on this are valid in the sense that we all have a voice/wallet to exercise. There's really no more to it than that.

DOS2 changed pretty radically in some ways. It had the benefit of a pretty unified community, though - BG3 is working with the 5e system, and marketing to D&D and BG fans directly as well, now.


You're right, profit's not quite the right word. Money up front, though, is.


Somewhat tied into the first quote I responded to. Nothing about the EA going out to players for playtesting as a purchased 'open' EA makes it any more likely to end up meeting one individual's expectations. Not inherently, you could make an argument that discussion/dialogue on things could change the community's mind on a subject.

I hope I cleared that last thing up, I'm not totally satisfied with how I worded it. I'm notoriously bad at conversing

So much text, and I see that you are using some words I don't even know as my english is limited (sorry about that). But If I understand this right, you are still hung up in what was said on steam, and even adding some stuff that simply is not true. And If you are so interested in a discussion on steam, why don't you bring that part of the discussion there?
But as you said, I have close to 0 posts on steam, and yet you assume that I would know what a Panda is, and why it would not be childish to call people that. And that I'm setting out to be a one-trick pony of a forum troll, what is so mature about that comment? We might have different opinions of what childish comments are I guess.


Yes, I know the early access gives you the game at the end, I even wrote that in the post you quoted.


I'm not good at editing in quotes or however you do that, but
But they are conducting early access, it is what you are paying for.
I never said that you would not get the full game, I even said that you would get the full game.
Since my english is limited, I even googled what a preorder and early access is, just to word it properly, here we go: "A pre-order is an order placed for an item that has not yet been released. The idea for pre-orders came because people found it hard to get popular items in stores because of their popularity. Companies then had the idea to allow customers to reserve their own personal copy before its release, which has been a huge success. Pre-orders allow consumers to guarantee immediate shipment on release, manufacturers can gauge how much demand there will be and thus the size of initial production runs, and sellers can be assured of minimum sales."

Early access: "Early access, also known as early funding, alpha-access, alpha founding, or paid-alpha, is a funding model in the video game industry by which consumers can purchase and play a game in the various pre-release development cycles, such as pre-alpha, alpha, and/or beta, while the developer is able to use those funds to continue further development on the game."

And just as you said to me, I say to you: "you attempted to use half-baked logic to try and present your flawed opinion as fact".

I don't know where you got your "facts" though, but early access is early access, and preorder is preorder. Now we got that out of the way

Yes, what I write in my posts are my opinions, it is not my intention to make it your opinion. If it looked like I did, I apologize. I strongly believe that the pricing is off when it is a price for Early Access (not a preorder or any other kind). And yes, this is my opinion.

I deleted my posts on steam because of the comments, and as I have stated a couple of times before, my english is not my main language, meaning my wording probably came out wrong, I was not trying to irritate people or look like a panda or troll or whatever. I was trying to discuss the early access pricing. When I went to discuss it here instead, I tried another approach, to see if that would become a discussion about the price for the early access. It is you who keep talking about steam posts and is angry or something about that and how I worded it. As I said before, if you are so bent on steam comments, go to steam and comment there.

I don't see the point trying all you can to dig up some dirt on me or whatever, and then attacking me here in this discussion. I really do not know why you are doing this, please stop.

There have been warnings, and will continue to be, that anyone wanting a polished experience should wait for the full release. The purpose of Early Access is to get feedback and test systems, and even excluding planed content that will not be ready for Early Access, there will be changes and adjustments made throughout. That has been described and will be again in more detail closer to release, when asking people to agree to provide anonymous gameplay data.




Good idea. Even better would be not arguing about the content of previous arguments, especially when an attempt was made here to be more constructive.


Who, not what. It was an observation that you were posting similar sentiments and/or style as another poster.

Nibbet,

I stand by my prior post. I analyzed and explained why the content of the Steam post you made & referenced was reacted to as it was, since you brought the comments made to you over here. As stated in that reply, no one knew of you until that point, all we had to go by was the tone and character of your post in addition to what your Steam history said for you, which was also a rant about EA for another game. And I suggested perhaps a healthier, more mature and constructive way to share your opinion(s) going forward. To turn your own phrase: if that's what you consider an 'attack', then you and I have very different views on what constitutes an 'attack'. If somehow you misunderstood something of it based on the language differential you brought forth, then I'll be happy to apologize in that instance.

As it relates to EA, different developers/game publishers have different approaches, goals, contexts and history involved in each case. In the specific case of Larian and BG3, EA vs pre-order is not an either/or proposition but rather one of conjunction of both. A random Google to a Wikipedia article or the like doesn't apply the same in every situation. Regardless if you choose to participate in EA or not, if you purchase BG3 before the official launch date, you are by very definition pre-ordering in this case. As Raze reminded as well, Larian has repeatedly warned the wrong minded sort of consumer away and advised they don't pre-order and play in EA, and instead pay for the game after release.

Essentially, it sounds as though waiting would be the best decision and approach for you, but whatever you decide, my hope is that you come to enjoy the game as much as the rest of us, and I wish you well sir.

Annyliese,

For starters for my part, please allow me to respond with a resounding 'on the contrary' here - I actually had intended to make a reply to your original response myself (and doing so below), but wanted to wait until I got back home instead of via mobile to try and do so. But the thing above all else I wanted to say before bringing my thoughts to the table, was to just give you a huge thanks for making such a demonstrative constructive and reasoned approach to presenting possible differing perspective or opinion on a subject like this. Your post/response IMO should be the poster child example of the right way to attempt to interject a different viewpoint, and I just wanted to say I for one appreciated it very much.




I would agree with this point, if Larian (or any company in similar shoes) had not or were not also doing their due diligence to temper and manage expectations for the potential customer/consumer base going in. Any ethical company selling a product should bear a responsibility to properly convey in truth and transparency the nature of their product and what they're selling, and I and most feel Larian not only has demonstrated that sort of character, but has publicly stated (as Raze has already interected already before I got around to responding) numerous times that EA isn't. Swen himself has actually answered the question of EA more than once by immediately leading in with something along the lines of (paraphrasing), 'Well, I'll tell you what EA is not' or 'I'll tell you who we *don't* want participating in EA', etc.

So, that leads to the other side of the equation, and something that's equally important to bear out: the responsibility in the mix of all this is not solely/100% on the company alone - the consumer also bears some measure of responsibility themselves as well to read/study and educate themselves about what they're buying, or not...and if the consumer doesn't do their due diligence in that regard and purchase blindly, its totally unfair to blame the company at that point. I say that because, its entirely possible there's some poor soul that buys early before release thinking its just a true 'demo' of the first part of the game when its in unfinished state, or worse, thinking they're getting the full game at that point....but with all of the interviews and material out there to be clearly read and understood on the matter, at that point the fault lies squarely at their feet, and certainly not Larian's. And this same premise ^ is true for any product, gaming or otherwise - there's responsibility involved on both sides of the fence.




None of us can scientifically prove the ratio breakdown of perspectives for those of us who will likely be pre-ordering and being actively involved in the EA process, so that should be understood going in before I say this...but I'd feel very confident in making an strongly educated guess that the majority of those who have no qualms about Larian's BG3 EA at all are going to be those who are already emotionally invested, who already trust the quality of both Larian's work and the company's character/actions to date, and thus would already be buying the full release game anyway. And, as has already been shown as fact, purchasing now vs. purchasing after release has no differential involved, save the ability (should one choose to) to pre-order and thus be able to participate in EA. Those same people are also likely viewing the prospect as a team effort - especially if they either participated in Larian's past EA periods, or read the numerous detailed experiential posts from those who did of what occurred therein. You referenced it in reply to someone else as 'money up front', but its almost certainly not money they wouldn't have gotten regardless.

Beyond the above more likely majority scenario however, we should just be blunt here and not dance around things: For anyone else, from what I've observed over the past few months, its only perceived as 'greedy' or touted as such by those who, for whatever reason, either don't have the same confidence in the company as the first pool, or are simply predisposed to be skeptical by nature....but yet obviously have an intense interest in the game regardless - and bottom line, can't figure out how to reconcile between their skepticism and their interest, and are wanting (begging in some cases) to be incentivized to make their internal reconciliation process easier. Simply put, no one that had no interest in the game would spend that much time trying to argue for a discounted or free EA period. Some of them also try and tout other games or developers and what they did, but Larian should not be unfairly held to someone else's standard...and especially not when they've already proven their way of doing things is a very successful approach, not just for company and the company's product, but the consumer as well. And ultimately, as nothing is going to change from Larian's perspective, those that fall into this 2nd classification/pool simply have to somehow make that reconciliation on their own.

It really is very, very simple for them though: if someone is unsure about anything to do with the game or Larian as the developer, as Raze pointed out earlier and as Larian as a whole is stating, they should simply wait until 1.0 release, purchase and try out the game within the refundable timeframe allotted at that point, and if not convinced, they should get a refund at that point. Or, they can (in their eyes) gamble on it by pre-ordering and participating in EA period and let the proverbial dice roll as they may - and I for one hope if they decide to take the risk, they roll a 20 on it.

I feel bad for posting what is to be such a short response to your well-written and eloquent post, but I feel as though all I can say is that I personally agree on most fronts. Larian has done all they really can under the circumstances to present the situation as honestly as possible, and it's why I don't share the thoughts I posted.

I think all I can really add is that I do disagree with the sentiment that EA is a pre-order with benefits. I personally take it as an early purchase of the game, like what we've seen with other highly successful early access games - Minecraft, for example. Larian's EA period is just a considerably smaller period than these other games, so I think it shifts perspective a lot.

And thank you for the kind words. I doubt my ability to communicate pretty often. ^^

I would not have to bring anything over here if you had not brought a steam discussion over here, which I said before, I don't really see the point in doing.

Still going to say, let steam discussions be steam discussions, please take them to steam, where they belong.

Taking a discussion from another forum to this forum just to paint a negative image of me is an attack. And why do you continue here? I've asked a couple of times, but if you have problems with a steam discussion, please take it to steam.

I think my wording might be wrong at times, and not understanding some things also.

Yes, and in this case, this developer, this game studios decision to ask full price for an early access is in my opinion too much.

I don't think you understand, it is what Early access and Preorder means, not what opinions people have of the name. A preorder is ordering a game that is fully released and getting that fully released game in the mail (or by other means) on that fully released games realease date (in most cases a Version 1.0 or higher). Early access simply means that, paying to play a game before it's full game release date (before Version 1.0. Maybe Version 0.2 or 0.8) There is a very very big difference. I don't really see the point in arguing what a preorder is, research it if you want to.

I did not really understand this, but am I "wrong minded" to think that the price is high? I'm really looking forward to playing the game, and if I can contribute, that would be awesome. The only thing I'm trying to discuss, is the price of early access.

I'm not gonna wait, I'm gonna play the game, and hopefully enjoying it as much as I think I will
And I'm not doing the quoting thing correctly, I apoligize..

This is probably true, I will take your word for it. But on the contrary, a beta is free

I kinda agree, just not the price, but if they only wanted people already interested in BG3, they would not release early access to the entire world. Because many people will pay and play early access just because a friend of them will, they hear good things about it or any other reason, even if they have no idea what they are getting into. Larian knows this.

I agree with this, but I still believe people that does not know what BG3 is,will still buy the game

Yes and no, If they only wanted feedback to make the game better, they would simply give out beta keys and make people pay for the game after the beta ended. In this case, they are asking for money, indicating that they need it in some way. This is how I understand it atleast

Either way, I hope this game is gonna be as good as I hope, even If I have to pay full price.

I neither was, nor am 'continuing' in any context. My prior response was final in intent. If you wish to continue to debate your unique perspective on this subject with other members, or with the Larian reps themselves for that matter, then I wish you luck sir.

Sounds like you both want to let that subject to be discontinued. Everyone agrees - Perfect.

Larian has been quite specific about how they use EA to improv the game. It is a longer and more involved process than a typical beta, and this shows by how much DOS2 changed throughout the process of its early access. They also take the money they get from EA and reinvest it back into the game, in order to make a better finished product.

For me, I'll happily pay 60 for early access and provide agreed feedback to make the retail released game better. It's a small price to pay for the long term enjoyment that I will get, knowing that perhaps some feedback I provided changed the game and made it better to include future BG content.