Larian Studios
Posted By: Talaverus Romance Options (toggle) - 12/09/20 09:47 PM
Will there be an option to turn off/on romantic dialogues and encounters, thus allowing the player to enjoy either a romance-heavy or a romance-free story? As a Christian, being able to simply turn off romance would be my first choice. The reason being that most CRPG romances I don't find to be very tasteful and the sex scenes inappropriate. This is personal opinion and not meant to be offensive to anyone who is of a different mind.

I am certain that I am in the minority, but I would like to see this option.
Posted By: Nyanko Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 12/09/20 10:21 PM
I hope it's more in depth than this. I do hope not only your character sexual orientation and theirs will be evaluated to decide if they want to flirt with you or not. I would rather have the companions being more moved towards you by the choices you make in the game. It's much more interesting in my opinion than just matching sexuality preferences, which should be secondary concerns.
Posted By: Emrikol Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 12/09/20 10:32 PM
Originally Posted by Talaverus
Will players be able to designate their main character of a particular sexual orientation? The result being that if your character was designated hetero- or homo- sexual, then companion characters of opposing orientations wouldn't flirt with your character and certain romantic dialogue options wouldn't appear (if bi-sexual was chosen, then obviously all companion characters could flirt with your character) . I would personally like to see this type of option. I know that in real life, a person can be flirted with by any and everyone...but not every person finds that pleasing...and this is a fantasy game.

Or will there be an option to turn off/on romantic dialogues and encounters, thus allowing the player to enjoy either a romance-heavy or a romance-free story?

I am certain that I am in the minority, but I would like to see these options.

I think they said in the most recent update (towards the very end) that the next community update would give more details on romances. Personally, I could do without them entirely.
Posted By: Talaverus Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 12/09/20 10:33 PM
I hear you, Nyanko

My fear is that when your character is genuinely but simply (without any romantic hopes or interest) being nice to a companion (showing an interest in their lives, etc.) that the coding will flag that and respond with flirtation. This has been my experience with Bioware titles.

So some kind of romance toggle or orientation designation would allow the developers the freedom to design the game to be sensitive to potential romantic interests but give the players an "opt out" clause so that their actions won't always be interpreted that way.
Posted By: Talaverus Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 12/09/20 10:36 PM
Originally Posted by Emrikol
Originally Posted by Talaverus
Will players be able to designate their main character of a particular sexual orientation? The result being that if your character was designated hetero- or homo- sexual, then companion characters of opposing orientations wouldn't flirt with your character and certain romantic dialogue options wouldn't appear (if bi-sexual was chosen, then obviously all companion characters could flirt with your character) . I would personally like to see this type of option. I know that in real life, a person can be flirted with by any and everyone...but not every person finds that pleasing...and this is a fantasy game.

Or will there be an option to turn off/on romantic dialogues and encounters, thus allowing the player to enjoy either a romance-heavy or a romance-free story?

I am certain that I am in the minority, but I would like to see these options.

I think they said in the most recent update (towards the very end) that the next community update would give more details on romances. Personally, I could do without them entirely.


I could as well. But that's mostly because the CRPG romance that I have witnessed is largely in poor taste (personal opinion).
Originally Posted by Emrikol
Originally Posted by Talaverus
Will players be able to designate their main character of a particular sexual orientation? The result being that if your character was designated hetero- or homo- sexual, then companion characters of opposing orientations wouldn't flirt with your character and certain romantic dialogue options wouldn't appear (if bi-sexual was chosen, then obviously all companion characters could flirt with your character) . I would personally like to see this type of option. I know that in real life, a person can be flirted with by any and everyone...but not every person finds that pleasing...and this is a fantasy game.

Or will there be an option to turn off/on romantic dialogues and encounters, thus allowing the player to enjoy either a romance-heavy or a romance-free story?

I am certain that I am in the minority, but I would like to see these options.

I think they said in the most recent update (towards the very end) that the next community update would give more details on romances. Personally, I could do without them entirely.



I agree. They usually feel shoehorned in and not very natural, especially in more modern games.
Posted By: Warlocke Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 13/09/20 08:38 AM
I very rarely care for romance in rpgs, especially if they involve cringe-worthy sex scenes. I did romance Fane in DOS2, because I thought it was hilarious.

I’ll probably mostly play BG3 with my girlfriend, so my protagonist’s partner is already a done thing. I’m still interested in seeing how Larian will handle it. I’ll go gay for Minsc. ❤️
Posted By: Nyanko Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 13/09/20 08:55 AM
Originally Posted by Warlocke
I very rarely care for romance in rpgs, especially if they involve cringe-worthy sex scenes. I did romance Fane in DOS2, because I thought it was hilarious.

I’ll probably mostly play BG3 with my girlfriend, so my protagonist’s partner is already a done thing. I’m still interested in seeing how Larian will handle it. I’ll go gay for Minsc. ❤️


The sex scenes are good in the witcher 3 though. And romance in DOS2 was fun, I agree.

My favorite romance was in Dragon Age Origins with Morrigan, cause it was so difficult to get her that it was a minigame in itself. But the devs made sure she was hot as hell to keep you interested lol. That's the kind of romance I would like in BG3, something interesting because the character you are flirting with is interesting and well written.
Posted By: vometia Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 13/09/20 09:06 AM
Originally Posted by Nyanko
The sex scenes are good in the witcher 3 though. And romance in DOS2 was fun, I agree.

My favorite romance was in Dragon Age Origins with Morrigan, cause it was so difficult to get her that it was a minigame in itself. But the devs made sure she was hot as hell to keep you interested lol. That's the kind of romance I would like in BG3, something interesting because the character you are flirting with is interesting and well written.

Sera in Inquisition was fun, and interestingly hard work when playing a mage character. I would hope romances are more like that than the rather threadbare efforts in e.g. Skyrim.
Posted By: Wormerine Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 13/09/20 11:42 AM
Originally Posted by Nyanko

My favorite romance was in Dragon Age Origins with Morrigan, cause it was so difficult to get her that it was a minigame in itself.

Morrigan difficult? She is the first one to initiate romance with, and she is so blunt with things she wants to hear, tis difficult to piss her off, unless you really try. And in doubt gift system will allow you to win over companions even if they should hate you.
Posted By: Nyanko Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 13/09/20 11:44 AM
Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by Nyanko

My favorite romance was in Dragon Age Origins with Morrigan, cause it was so difficult to get her that it was a minigame in itself.

Morrigan difficult? She is the first one to initiate romance with, and she is so blunt with things she wants to hear, tis difficult to piss her off, unless you really try. And in doubt gift system will allow you to win over companions even if they should hate you.


For me it was really difficult. I had to look up for the right choices to take online at some point.
Posted By: kanisatha Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 13/09/20 01:23 PM
I thought the Dorien relationship in DA:I was very well done. He is gay, but even after you decline his advances (assuming you're male) you can still do his entire personal quest line and even be really nice to him and help him out with his problems, and he never hits on you again and in the endgame tells you that no one has ever been as nice to him as you and that you are like a brother to him. That's how a well-made relationship system should work.

Re. Morrigan, yeah she's relatively easy to romance, and also yeah she's one of the best cRPG romances of all time.
Like a lot of people around the web, I love the options available with the romances, but like them as well, I find it too flexible. It feels very unrealistic that all of the companions can be romanced regardless of player sex or race (every single one is pansexual?) It feels like bad character writing just to try to make things diverse. I'm excited by the variety but very disappointed by the forced writing just so I can romance everyone with anyone I make. :( Larian, please consider giving the companion characters realistic sexual preferences! And I love the idea that suggested in this forum that if you are playing a character not interested in romance, you can specify as much with your character and at least some of the characters (depending on that characters personality) will be respectful and not try to romance you. (And some still would?) Realistic! <3
Posted By: Sordak Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 14/09/20 06:36 AM
I dont realy see how beeing a christian would make that uncomfortable, i consider myself a christian and i dont bother, its not like the games gonna force you to have sex with strangers.

but oh well
Posted By: vometia Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 14/09/20 12:18 PM
Originally Posted by Sordak
I dont realy see how beeing a christian would make that uncomfortable, i consider myself a christian and i dont bother, its not like the games gonna force you to have sex with strangers.

Same*. I suppose my perspective is that it's fiction, not reality, and it's supposed to be about roleplaying. Well, inasmuch as I just said elsewhere I'm not much good at playing evil characters; but that's just a product of me not enjoying it much rather than "I mustn't roleplay that because principles etc". But I don't enjoy it so I don't do it, which is a simple enough solution. Okay, usually: I mean you do get some really ham-fisted attempts at "this is more complex than good vs. evil" such as Fallout 3's Tenpenny Tower quest-line whose outcomes were realistic=evil and good=idiotically naïve. That's the sort of writing I can do without.

* well, variously. The "variously not" is caused by some specimens who really dislike anything LGBT which is very tiresome.
Posted By: Nyanko Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 14/09/20 12:45 PM
I do understand some people feel uncomfortable with evil stuff in video games. I guess it has to do with being able to dissociate your gameplay experience from real life or not. Some manage, some don't. And it is not to say one group is better than the other. It's just the way it is. As a writer myself, I know I can handle playing evil easily because it is just a story in a fictional world for me and it does not affect my values outside of it. And to be honest, it feels good sometimes to bitch around and play evil.

I remember back in the day, when neverwinter nights community servers were a thing, I used to play an evil drow mage and some other players were also playing drows and we had some sessions in which we were capturing people (other players) from the surface to torture them. Everybody was just playing a game and it had no other consequences than being edgy and fun.
Posted By: Salto89 Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 14/09/20 03:21 PM
It's bad idea. Okay, I can understand that sex scenes often look weird and maybe toggle for "dark screen" instead of cyber-humping would be nice but "romance-free story" seems absurd. It should be an adult world with all it's blessings and flaws. With sexual content, and not only companions cheesy romance. You can always turn somebody down.
Posted By: Irakandjii Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 14/09/20 03:33 PM
I would have thought turning down a protagonist was in and of itself a toggle.

It seems to me a well written rpg, which Larian games are, would quickly determine a disinterested party from the players responses and then leave well enough alone.
Posted By: Maze Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 14/09/20 06:44 PM
Romances in RPGs tend to be quite optional. In the original BG you can easily play the whole game without triggering them, and you can always just say "hey...you know what? I'd rather not" to a flirty character. BG:EE is a bit more direct about it by design (especially BG2:EE, I never expected my evil cleric-wizzard egotistical gnome lady to get in a "love" triangle with a Blackguard half orc and a vampire, but the game almost insists on it), but even there you can always tell someone to buzz off.

Also, I wouldn't expect all companions to flirt with you without you flirting with them first. So if one of them is too flirty for your taste, just don't take them along? Evil companions tend to be more flirty, so assuming you will play a mostly "good" party, even if the game kinda sets the alignment system aside, avoiding that kind of company should be relatively simple. Especially since Larian games are not known to turn any and every relationship in a suggested romance.

I wouldn't oppose the toggle option, but I don't expect making your character incapable of love to be needed for any kind of playthrough.
Posted By: DrunkPunk Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 14/09/20 06:58 PM
Romancing in RPGs is one of those things that i feel every game would lose zero value over simply not including. Hell romance in most forms of entertainment, including movies and TVs, tend to detract from what would otherwise be a perfectly fine story and it becomes a rather senseless inclusion or dramatic angle. Especially in games like D:OS2 where one selecting one rather vague dialogue choice can result in romance, a toggle option wouldn't be a bad thing. Sure the Fane romance was amusing at least, but man it was too easy to stumble into it. Ultimately I'd prefer if the genre alltogether just stopped with this weird fascination with romancing pretend and often questionable characters, but a toggle would be a sufficient substitute.
Posted By: deathidge Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 14/09/20 07:09 PM
Originally Posted by DrunkPunk
Romancing in RPGs is one of those things that i feel every game would lose zero value over simply not including. Hell romance in most forms of entertainment, including movies and TVs, tend to detract from what would otherwise be a perfectly fine story and it becomes a rather senseless inclusion or dramatic angle. Especially in games like D:OS2 where one selecting one rather vague dialogue choice can result in romance, a toggle option wouldn't be a bad thing. Sure the Fane romance was amusing at least, but man it was too easy to stumble into it. Ultimately I'd prefer if the genre alltogether just stopped with this weird fascination with romancing pretend and often questionable characters, but a toggle would be a sufficient substitute.


+1

I would much prefer that any/all assets/resources that went into making romance went into making more, non-romance content instead. It's an easy thing in P&P to have romance if you want it, or don't, but in a video game which is a finite, created world with limited resources and assets working on it...i'd rather just play a game based on romance if i really wanted romance.
Posted By: Warlocke Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 14/09/20 08:21 PM
Well, if you have ever seen the BioWare forums you will know LOTS of people really care about romance in their CRPGs, so I don’t think Larian is misguided in allocating resources into that.

If it is done well then I like romance subplots. Especially in BG2/ToB. My canon character’s romance with Jaheira actually ended up changing the ending I picked. I was all ready for him to ascend to godhood, but in that moment, after all that they had been through together, I felt it was more true to my Bhaalspawn’s nature and character arc for him to choose Jaheira over apotheosis. There was no explicit flag saying Jaheira or godhood, so it felt like a very organic choice, and I enjoyed that.

So if a romance subplot provides ample opportunities to develop the player character, that is great. If it is just some vehicle to be rewarded with awful, awkward sex scene, hard pass from me.
Posted By: Gray Ghost Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 15/09/20 11:16 AM
I for one love romance in my cRPGs and while it'll probably never be a make or break factor in my decision to buy a game, when I hear that a game won't include romance it's always a disappointment. I see romance as one more way to express your character and who they are; who a person chooses to love and how says a lot about them and opens an opportunity to shape their character even further. I think the main problem with romances in games is that too many include them out of a sense of obligation as opposed to feeling as though the romances would really add something. Romance in a cRPG should be given the same amount of thought and consideration as other aspects of NPC interaction, providing ways for you to shape and express your character rather than just being another sidequest.
Posted By: NinthPlane Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 16/09/20 03:00 AM
Originally Posted by deathidge
Originally Posted by DrunkPunk
Romancing in RPGs is one of those things that i feel every game would lose zero value over simply not including. Hell romance in most forms of entertainment, including movies and TVs, tend to detract from what would otherwise be a perfectly fine story and it becomes a rather senseless inclusion or dramatic angle. Especially in games like D:OS2 where one selecting one rather vague dialogue choice can result in romance, a toggle option wouldn't be a bad thing. Sure the Fane romance was amusing at least, but man it was too easy to stumble into it. Ultimately I'd prefer if the genre alltogether just stopped with this weird fascination with romancing pretend and often questionable characters, but a toggle would be a sufficient substitute.


+1

I would much prefer that any/all assets/resources that went into making romance went into making more, non-romance content instead. It's an easy thing in P&P to have romance if you want it, or don't, but in a video game which is a finite, created world with limited resources and assets working on it...i'd rather just play a game based on romance if i really wanted romance.

+1
Posted By: mfr Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 16/09/20 01:00 PM
Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by Nyanko
The sex scenes are good in the witcher 3 though. And romance in DOS2 was fun, I agree.

My favorite romance was in Dragon Age Origins with Morrigan, cause it was so difficult to get her that it was a minigame in itself. But the devs made sure she was hot as hell to keep you interested lol. That's the kind of romance I would like in BG3, something interesting because the character you are flirting with is interesting and well written.

Sera in Inquisition was fun, and interestingly hard work when playing a mage character. I would hope romances are more like that than the rather threadbare efforts in e.g. Skyrim.

Sera was one of the best written characters I have seen in the series. (IM 'not so' HO) It was fun acting the part of an elven mage in my first play through, not knowing that I had doubled the difficulty. Her character seemed to develop in a fascinating way, particularly if she came along for the tour of the fade!

I have to say that I find the odd ball characters some of the most fun to include in parties.
Posted By: kanisatha Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 16/09/20 01:02 PM
Originally Posted by mfr
I have to say that I find the odd ball characters some of the most fun to include in parties.

I'm 100% with you on this.
Posted By: Goldberry Re: Romance Options (toggle) - 23/09/20 07:28 PM
Well the sex scenes are gonna be far more explicit than I imagined for sure, I was imagining DAO kind of romance but...

[Linked Image]https://i.imgur.com/WV2QfPB.png

Posted By: qhristoff Re: Romance Options (toggle) - 23/09/20 07:32 PM
Seriously. If you want to stop objectifying bodies then stop emphasizing their objectification through sexual gratification.

All this is is masturbation. It is trashy pulp garbage.
Posted By: Warlocke Re: Romance Options (toggle) - 23/09/20 07:37 PM
Just reposting from the community update thread:

Larian, if you could have a PG toggle feature where during the sex scenes the narrator just describes the intimacy DOS2 style while characters just stand in front of the camera looking incredulous and embarrassed I’ll love you forever. I’ll buy two copies of the game.
Posted By: flick40 Re: Romance Options (toggle) - 23/09/20 08:18 PM
Hmm MxF, FxF.. whats missing, oh yeah MinotaurXMummy
Posted By: Dagless Re: Romance Options (toggle) - 23/09/20 08:39 PM
Originally Posted by flick40
Hmm MxF, FxF.. whats missing, oh yeah MinotaurXMummy


And what’s up with the multiplication anyway? That image is offensive for its maths illiteracy.

It should be M+F, F+F, etc.
Posted By: Nyanko Re: Romance Options (toggle) - 23/09/20 08:46 PM
Yeah, it's pretty much The Witcher 3 level of romance here. Didn't expect that. But I never shy away from stuffed unicorns. So it's all good.
Posted By: kanisatha Re: Romance Options (toggle) - 23/09/20 09:09 PM
Originally Posted by Nyanko
Yeah, it's pretty much The Witcher 3 level of romance here. Didn't expect that. But I never shy away from stuffed unicorns. So it's all good.

Yup, sex on a unicorn is the bar to beat. wink
Posted By: CandrianIllborne Re: Romance Options (toggle) - 23/09/20 10:58 PM
Originally Posted by Nyanko
Yeah, it's pretty much The Witcher 3 level of romance here. Didn't expect that. But I never shy away from stuffed unicorns. So it's all good.


I don't shy away from it either, but if it has that feel to it then I don't think it really belongs in a BG game.
Posted By: Wormerine Re: Romance Options (toggle) - 23/09/20 11:05 PM
Originally Posted by kanisatha
Yup, sex on a unicorn is the bar to beat. wink

Yeah, but it's not very explicit. It's a very cute moment build up throughout the game, and a pay off, especially if one read the books.
Posted By: Languid Lizard Re: Romance Options (toggle) - 24/09/20 10:16 AM
One of the great reasons to play single player Baldur's Gate is to get away from females! Hopefully, it will be possible to have an entirely male stag party! That would certainly get rid of the "romance" posiibilities. And just in case the party have a little too much love-potion to drink, kill all the female monsters, just in case!
Posted By: Nyanko Re: Romance Options (toggle) - 24/09/20 10:24 AM
Originally Posted by Languid Lizard
One of the great reasons to play single player Baldur's Gate is to get away from females! Hopefully, it will be possible to have an entirely male stag party! That would certainly get rid of the "romance" posiibilities. And just in case the party have a little too much love-potion to drink, kill all the female monsters, just in case!


You assume too much. In this day and age, homosexuality is probably a thing in this game. Only lonewolf mode can save you now XD
Posted By: Languid Lizard Re: Romance Options (toggle) - 24/09/20 10:39 AM
Originally Posted by Nyanko
Originally Posted by Languid Lizard
One of the great reasons to play single player Baldur's Gate is to get away from females! Hopefully, it will be possible to have an entirely male stag party! That would certainly get rid of the "romance" posiibilities. And just in case the party have a little too much love-potion to drink, kill all the female monsters, just in case!


You assume too much. In this day and age, homosexuality is probably a thing in this game. Only lonewolf mode can save you now XD

Haha! Even alone there can be peril... shame

It seems the entire premise of the game is reproduction and romance. The mind flayer lovingly selects its chosen spawn and deposits it into The Chosen One.

I hope the game develops the whole birds-and-the-bees theme and we are able to see gelatinous cubes on the make, amarous Ankhegs, uxorious Umber Hulks and passionate Pixies. It would be enchanting, absorbing, scientific and in demand!
Posted By: KeraTerra Re: Romance Options (toggle) - 24/09/20 11:50 AM
Reposting my comment from the "Community update #7" topic as it seems even more relevant here:

I just watched the Romance community update. It seems that Larian do take a lot of care to implement romance as a narrative and cinematic feature.
They want players to care about the characters and impact that such relations have on the story.

But I want to suggest something that could take that impact to the next level - gameplay.
What if characters who are in love could gain a treat that would enable them to react to things that happen in the fight? Perhaps even automatically?
For example, Shadowheart could have a chance to cover the player with a shield from an attack, or the player character could immediately counterattack the monster who hurt their love interest. Rule-wise it could work based on the reaction rules similar to some spells to stay true to the DND source.

The closest I have seen to this was either the new unique skills in Tyranny, permanent buff to the stats in NWN:Mask of the Betrayer, or the friendship system in the XCOM series.
Of course, it may be seen as an imbalance, but imagine the impact such system could have on the player. We would spend 60 to 80% of our time in combat, and having romance change something about how characters behave in combat and not just in dialogue would be precious and previously unseen in RPGs.

What do you think?
Posted By: Languid Lizard Re: Romance Options (toggle) - 24/09/20 12:38 PM
Originally Posted by KeraTerra
Reposting my comment from the "Community update #7" topic as it seems even more relevant here:

I just watched the Romance community update. It seems that Larian do take a lot of care to implement romance as a narrative and cinematic feature.
They want players to care about the characters and impact that such relations have on the story.

But I want to suggest something that could take that impact to the next level - gameplay.
What if characters who are in love could gain a treat that would enable them to react to things that happen in the fight? Perhaps even automatically?
For example, Shadowheart could have a chance to cover the player with a shield from an attack, or the player character could immediately counterattack the monster who hurt their love interest. Rule-wise it could work based on the reaction rules similar to some spells to stay true to the DND source.

The closest I have seen to this was either the new unique skills in Tyranny, permanent buff to the stats in NWN:Mask of the Betrayer, or the friendship system in the XCOM series.
Of course, it may be seen as an imbalance, but imagine the impact such system could have on the player. We would spend 60 to 80% of our time in combat, and having romance change something about how characters behave in combat and not just in dialogue would be precious and previously unseen in RPGs.

What do you think?



There was something similar to what you suggest in XCom 2. Squad members who went on missions together, and had compatible personalities, gradually increased their bonding, until a threshold was met and they "Bonded". This enabled additional perks, like an extra move through teamwork. Over time, the level of the bond could be increased, to unlock further, enhanced perks. If a bondmate was injured severly or died, it had a chance to trigger a reaction in the other member, including "going berserk"! It was an enjoyable part of the game.

It could be worked in opposition too, in Baldur's Gate III, where in addition to bonding, characters could grow apart in antipathy. For example, perhaps there is a smoking hot female elf in the party, and two male party members find themselves in rivalry for her affection. You could bond the she-elf with one of the males, to advantage, but that would come at the cost of a malus with the other character.

There ought to be something like you suggest, I think. A Paladin does not like Evil, or even Neutrality. A "Fracture" could become established over the passage of time, as characters stray from one another in their chosen path.
Posted By: Gray Ghost Re: Romance Options (toggle) - 24/09/20 12:40 PM
@KeraTerra I think integrating romance into gameplay like that would be awesome. There's a game called Wildermyth, it's very different in how it works from BG3 but it's still a type of RPG, and the relationships between characters are pretty important. Characters do get bonuses in battle depending not just on romance but on whatever relationships they have. Characters in a romance get bonuses when attacked creatures that have done damage to their partner, friends get a bonus when they attack the same monster and even rivals get a bonus; increased critical hit chance when they're around one another to represent them trying to one-up each other. I don't know if that sort of thing can work in D&D but something like that would go a long way towards adding depth and meaning to relationships, and providing a mechanical insentive to explore various types of relationship.
Posted By: vometia Re: Romance Options (toggle) - 24/09/20 01:09 PM
Originally Posted by Languid Lizard
There was something similar to what you suggest in XCom 2. Squad members who went on missions together, and had compatible personalities, gradually increased their bonding, until a threshold was met and they "Bonded". This enabled additional perks, like an extra move through teamwork. Over time, the level of the bond could be increased, to unlock further, enhanced perks. If a bondmate was injured severly or died, it had a chance to trigger a reaction in the other member, including "going berserk"! It was an enjoyable part of the game.
[...]

Fallout 4 did this sort of thing too, though it's been long enough that I don't quite recall the exact details...
Posted By: Ivory Samoan Re: Romance Options (toggle) - 24/09/20 01:56 PM
TIL: this forum has a lot of people who simply hate romance in their gaming.

I, for one, am glad for the excursion: looks to he done masterfully, that scene with the cavorting hands was hot even...hard to achieve in a game.
Posted By: qhristoff Re: Romance Options (toggle) - 24/09/20 05:01 PM
Masturbatory romance novella trash.
Posted By: LoneSky Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 24/09/20 05:03 PM
I don't think it's so simple to just set an on & off switch and romance is gone. I wouldn't mind it of course, I can ignore any optional part that I want to ignore, just these are deeply intertwined in the game. Auto-skip "sex" scene vids if there's any, that's likely possible.

Also I'm sure that many, many things would lead to a very different (maybe more enjoyable) experience if all these and more could be just "turned on or off":
- boring parts on & off, same with
- parts involving math or puzzles
- gay, straight or whatever orientations and so on (need a wiki to list them all)
- suggestions to steal or betray
- burning witches, hurting baby goblins or drinking alcohol
- rolling dice
and many more smile
Originally Posted by LoneSky
I don't think it's so simple to just set an on & off switch and romance is gone. I wouldn't mind it of course, I can ignore any optional part that I want to ignore, just these are deeply intertwined in the game. Auto-skip "sex" scene vids if there's any, that's likely possible.

Also I'm sure that many, many things would lead to a very different (maybe more enjoyable) experience if all these and more could be just "turned on or off":
- boring parts on & off, same with
- parts involving math or puzzles
- gay, straight or whatever orientations and so on (need a wiki to list them all)
- suggestions to steal or betray
- burning witches, hurting baby goblins or drinking alcohol
- rolling dice
and many more smile


I like this idea a lot and wonder whether something like this suggestion was raised early on in production of the game. At the start of the game, the player could, as you suggest, use sliders or toggles to indicate which sort of experiences they do and don't wish to encounter. For example, gore, nudity, females, etc. I suppose it might be possible to download only those components of the game which are compliant with your filters. The game might also support multi-player gaming by connecting you only with players of similar preference. When it came time to creating new modules, funding could be allocated in proportion to the preferences of the gaming community.

The film industry could follow a similar methodology when filming and releasing movies online or on DVD. In the case of films, a large number of scenes would have to be filmed several times. Sometimes, this might not be practicable, so there would be limitations.

It would be valuable for the developers to do this. Netflix already harvest data from viewers' preferences to determine which shows get the go-ahead for production, what the storylines will be, even who the actors are.
Posted By: Warlocke Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 24/09/20 07:06 PM
... You want a toggle to disable women in your games?

😐
Originally Posted by Warlocke
... You want a toggle to disable women in your games?

😐


Yes, at the end of the day, I think that would be quite a popular feature. Remember, you could also toggle to have only females. (The menu could be: "Do you want women? Yes and No, No, or Yes please.) So, all or nothing or somewhere in between. Equally, you could have another toggle for nudity.

Some care would be needed in designing the toggles though. For instance, many people consider women to be female humans. Some people might be ok with smoking hot, nudy she-elves, but not wish to see any women.
Posted By: qhristoff Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 24/09/20 09:27 PM
wow
Posted By: Warlocke Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 24/09/20 09:33 PM
Originally Posted by qhristoff
wow


Yeeeeah ...

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Tzelanit Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 25/09/20 07:41 AM
Interesting that you mentioned "orientation options" but didn't actually touch on them in your post. It sorta sounds like you've played somes games where there wasn't a distinct man/woman dynamic present and things were open-ended, and you were made uncomfortable by it. So as opposed to stepping on anyone's toes by directly stating that, you'd either like to see the romance options removed completely, or make them entirely heterosexual. And then you're protecting your stance by slapping a disclaimer on your statement saying that it's a personal opinion and not meant to be offensive, when it low-key sorta is at its core.

I'm not trying to be confrontational. I just don't understand how you're perfectly content with playing a game that that dabbles in the occult, spellcasting, demons, and planes that resemble hell, all of which are warned against and contradict the beliefs of many faiths, but two people of the same sex flirting is where you would be so disturbed that you'd call for a toggle unless all of the relationships were strictly and bluntly heterosexual.

That would be like if I made a post insinuating that I would like to see nothing but same-sex relationships or no relationship option at all because the inclusion of straight relationships would bother me.

Sweetheart, if I can manage to get over the entire "male hero saving the damsel in distress" dynamic that's been prevalent in practically everything and has been forced since the early 80's that was never a choice, I think you'll be just fine politely declining the PG-13 rated advances of video game characters that won't force you to interact with them in a sexual manner if you just choose the option that's the equivalent of "no thank you."
Posted By: Annyliese Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 25/09/20 08:49 PM
Originally Posted by Ivory Samoan
TIL: this forum has a lot of people who simply hate romance in their gaming.

I, for one, am glad for the excursion: looks to he done masterfully, that scene with the cavorting hands was hot even...hard to achieve in a game.


Wouldn't say I hate romance so much as I hate the culture surrounding it for games.

Also don't think having new mechanics added for the sake of love interests is a good idea, responding to an earlier sentiment. Something simpler like a +1 to WIS saves within 30 ft of your lover or something seems much less formative. If you make romance required for optimization, though, I may grow to hate this game.
Posted By: DrunkPunk Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 25/09/20 09:18 PM
Originally Posted by Annyliese
[quote=Ivory Samoan]Also don't think having new mechanics added for the sake of love interests is a good idea, responding to an earlier sentiment. Something simpler like a +1 to WIS saves within 30 ft of your lover or something seems much less formative. If you make romance required for optimization, though, I may grow to hate this game.


I'm right there with you. I like to eventually min-max my playthroughs, but it would absolutely kill replayability for me if there was any sort of buffs or any garbage like that associated with romance. It's cringey enough as it is, don't force me to participate in it for power gains.
Posted By: Van'tal Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 26/09/20 04:36 PM
A toggle system sounds good actually. (Interested / not interested).

I recall in the Mass Effect series wanting to get to know the characters better and so I talked with them. I remember having to reload several times because I was suddenly forced into a romance unawares.

Ashley in ME1 was coming on full speed ahead for one, and there were others. you could easily cut yourself off from dialogs with other NPCs.


Dragon Age was another game I remember getting into some "uncomfortable" dialogs with players as well..."Hey watch where your pointing that sword!".
Originally Posted by Van'tal
A toggle system sounds good actually. (Interested / not interested).

I recall in the Mass Effect series wanting to get to know the characters better and so I talked with them. I remember having to reload several times because I was suddenly forced into a romance unawares.

Ashley in ME1 was coming on full speed ahead for one, and there were others. you could easily cut yourself off from dialogs with other NPCs.


Dragon Age was another game I remember getting into some "uncomfortable" dialogs with players as well..."Hey watch where your pointing that sword!".


It would be quite good fun to toggle it the other way too, so that the only NPC's and Characters you could encounter would those who were "up for it", "if you played your cards right". What confidence one would have, striding through the game, all the time knowing that you were able to get off with any humanoid or creature you met! You could sleep your way to the top!
Posted By: deathidge Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 26/09/20 08:43 PM
Originally Posted by Languid Lizard
Originally Posted by Van'tal
A toggle system sounds good actually. (Interested / not interested).

I recall in the Mass Effect series wanting to get to know the characters better and so I talked with them. I remember having to reload several times because I was suddenly forced into a romance unawares.

Ashley in ME1 was coming on full speed ahead for one, and there were others. you could easily cut yourself off from dialogs with other NPCs.


Dragon Age was another game I remember getting into some "uncomfortable" dialogs with players as well..."Hey watch where your pointing that sword!".


It would be quite good fun to toggle it the other way too, so that the only NPC's and Characters you could encounter would those who were "up for it", "if you played your cards right". What confidence one would have, striding through the game, all the time knowing that you were able to get off with any humanoid or creature you met! You could sleep your way to the top!


That does not sound like a D&D I would ever want to play, let alone buy. I'm not excited about the levels of romance they are hinting at with those porn drawings but as long as its in no way, shape, or form pushed on me and as long as the game doesn't direct me to those kinds of scenarios, i'll do my best to ignore it. It's not something I want to see, so if I am forced to see any of it, at all, then rest assured I'll be asking for my money back. I want to play D&D, not a fantasy romance game with optional exploration and combat.
Posted By: KillerRabbit Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 26/09/20 08:59 PM
I think @kanisatha take mirrored my own. This is best update so far. People are focusing on the story boards but I was happy to see that the romance and sex was put into the context of relationships.

Sure I'm all for a toggle -- I actually toggled gore off on BG2 -- but I won't use on for the romances. I'm surprised that they story boards are getting the attention they are. I found the "crushing the skull to get the pet" scene much more disturbing than the virtual pastie over a nipple scene.
I think that the definition of "romance" varies depending on the ages.
Originally Posted by Tzelanit
Interesting that you mentioned "orientation options" but didn't actually touch on them in your post. It sorta sounds like you've played somes games where there wasn't a distinct man/woman dynamic present and things were open-ended, and you were made uncomfortable by it. So as opposed to stepping on anyone's toes by directly stating that, you'd either like to see the romance options removed completely, or make them entirely heterosexual. And then you're protecting your stance by slapping a disclaimer on your statement saying that it's a personal opinion and not meant to be offensive, when it low-key sorta is at its core.

I'm not trying to be confrontational. I just don't understand how you're perfectly content with playing a game that that dabbles in the occult, spellcasting, demons, and planes that resemble hell, all of which are warned against and contradict the beliefs of many faiths, but two people of the same sex flirting is where you would be so disturbed that you'd call for a toggle unless all of the relationships were strictly and bluntly heterosexual.

That would be like if I made a post insinuating that I would like to see nothing but same-sex relationships or no relationship option at all because the inclusion of straight relationships would bother me.

Sweetheart, if I can manage to get over the entire "male hero saving the damsel in distress" dynamic that's been prevalent in practically everything and has been forced since the early 80's that was never a choice, I think you'll be just fine politely declining the PG-13 rated advances of video game characters that won't force you to interact with them in a sexual manner if you just choose the option that's the equivalent of "no thank you."

Great post: this deserves some golden pantaloons.

100% with you regarding the imagery/themes on show that, IMO, should be far more disconcerting to Christians.

Planes that resemble Hell and the general dark vibe of the Illithid spawn in your head scares me a lot more than 2 guys/girls having a relationship.

Originally Posted by Van'tal
A toggle system sounds good actually. (Interested / not interested).

I recall in the Mass Effect series wanting to get to know the characters better and so I talked with them. I remember having to reload several times because I was suddenly forced into a romance unawares.

Ashley in ME1 was coming on full speed ahead for one, and there were others. you could easily cut yourself off from dialogs with other NPCs.


Dragon Age was another game I remember getting into some "uncomfortable" dialogs with players as well..."Hey watch where your pointing that sword!".


Anders got a little pushy for my liking: pest level is not good no matter what the sexual orientation.
Posted By: vometia Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 27/09/20 02:04 PM
Originally Posted by IndySandbagTrick
Anders got a little pushy for my liking: pest level is not good no matter what the sexual orientation.

In Anders' case it was nothing to do with sexual orientation, nor even relationships, and everything to do with the fact that he was a git. I used to be quite outspoken about his personality transplant between Oranges (well okay, Awakening) and DA2 but having recently replayed Awakening I can now see the basis of his personality hadn't actually changed. Anyway, I digress; the point was it was more down to him being an obnoxious character (IMHO ofc) than the game's attempt to railroad the PC's sexuality (which would've been "trying to make me straight" in my case, though I don't recall hearing that particular complaint, curiously).
Posted By: LoneSky Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 27/09/20 02:52 PM
Romance, whatever it is - from falling in love to sexuality and beyond, it's just part of life. Just like the other wants, food or drinks. Or wanting that cool armor, legendary weapon, magic skill, treasure, and everything else.
All these can go wrong. Not the subject is bad in itself, just how it is implemented in a game. That can go wrong.

Love is just like food, isn't good when it's forced. You have to want it first. Then have to be cooked properly, unless you that hungry, because otherwise you get sick and won't feel it as a joy. That's why there has to be a teasing first and an easy way to refuse that. Nothing wrong at this point, just take it a a compliment. You may become hungry later. Or not.

Depends on the food as well: a tasty cookie could be always tempting. It's up to those laws of attraction. These make a game more rich, even if we just react with some kind of "no". Don't have to end in a complicated a scene. Just a single line of teasing, from a character you encouraged to do so, goes deep.

So I don't think a toggle needed, as in option & settings. Just to be well written, and allow for a refusal, from a simple one, to a polite or even threatening one "don't even try this again with me", including the "maybe later" leaving the door open. These won't make a game feel cheep or creepy. They will actually add a lot, they make sense and nothing to be afraid of.

We can't just keep censoring the most important parts of our humanity; that is falling in love, from the fear of doing something weird. These parts just need a better writing than games get usually. Still, props for those trying, considering the "western" world we live in 2020 is still ashamed of sexuality and feelings, and how can one learn a proper way (of writing) without trying and failing, making corrections, trying again, doing better and in the end, getting it right. Just try it in real life, if you haven't yet, and see that "romance" it's never a 100% success story smile
Posted By: deathidge Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 27/09/20 05:34 PM
Originally Posted by LoneSky
Romance, whatever it is - from falling in love to sexuality and beyond, it's just part of life. Just like the other wants, food or drinks. Or wanting that cool armor, legendary weapon, magic skill, treasure, and everything else.
All these can go wrong. Not the subject is bad in itself, just how it is implemented in a game. That can go wrong.

Love is just like food, isn't good when it's forced. You have to want it first. Then have to be cooked properly, unless you that hungry, because otherwise you get sick and won't feel it as a joy. That's why there has to be a teasing first and an easy way to refuse that. Nothing wrong at this point, just take it a a compliment. You may become hungry later. Or not.

Depends on the food as well: a tasty cookie could be always tempting. It's up to those laws of attraction. These make a game more rich, even if we just react with some kind of "no". Don't have to end in a complicated a scene. Just a single line of teasing, from a character you encouraged to do so, goes deep.

So I don't think a toggle needed, as in option & settings. Just to be well written, and allow for a refusal, from a simple one, to a polite or even threatening one "don't even try this again with me", including the "maybe later" leaving the door open. These won't make a game feel cheep or creepy. They will actually add a lot, they make sense and nothing to be afraid of.

We can't just keep censoring the most important parts of our humanity; that is falling in love, from the fear of doing something weird. These parts just need a better writing than games get usually. Still, props for those trying, considering the "western" world we live in 2020 is still ashamed of sexuality and feelings, and how can one learn a proper way (of writing) without trying and failing, making corrections, trying again, doing better and in the end, getting it right. Just try it in real life, if you haven't yet, and see that "romance" it's never a 100% success story smile


You, like most others on the forums, seem to be misunderstanding those that have voiced concerns over the intended sex scenes; no one is asking for relationships and romance to be removed from the game. I won't speak for everyone else on the specifics, but IMO the sex scenes are too far, unnecessary, and are a big detractor from the game. I'm all for keeping in all the relationship/romance dialogue but I wish they would cut the softcore porn scenes that add nothing to the game.
Posted By: Warlocke Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 27/09/20 06:00 PM
Yeah, I like romance when it is well written and provides role playing opportunities to define my character, and I’m not even inherently opposed to sex scenes. But watching animated video game characters entwine themselves in each other always looks like crap. Cringeworthy and embarrassing. They remind me of the sex scene in Team America: World Police, but played straight instead of for laughs.

There is a way to do it tastefully, and this ain’t it. I’ll just end up skipping the sex scenes, so it isn’t a huge deal. Just disappointing. If you ever see video game sex scenes discussed anywhere online the pervading opinion seems to be that they are rubbish. I don’t know why Larian wasted resources on this, but oh well.
Posted By: LoneSky Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 27/09/20 06:58 PM
I didn't know there will be sex scenes, this gonna be interesting (or not, I don't know yet, depends how they look like and what happens in there).
These likely need a skip options, certainly. Even if someone likes them, sometimes just needs to happen fast, I skip many cutscenes I like, in many games, after I watched them many times and don't need to watch them anymore, skip has same effect already.

But then again, I still wouldn't be against them, there can't be innovation without failures. I would need to think a lot how to make them, if I had to direct such scenes... Maybe like the one I remember from Witcher 2, Geralt and Triss in rose garden or bath. That was a beautiful place and that scene was just really fitting there.

As for wasting resources... could look like, if it's about scenes I would just skip. But then these kind of games seem boring to many, no offense, but dice & and stuff isn't what an action gamer or even a non-gamer would want. Just think for a moment from their perspective as well. Add a bit of color & tease, without turning it into "adult" content of course, and may become interesting and worth going through the "boring parts" to get a rewarding romance scene. Why don't attract more people to the smart parts of the game? Even if the main audience already likes it, more money will allow more games and with even more features, since all they are about cost as well.
I'm here for example just for the RPG part & story (that's part of RPG but still, one could role play on the go and invent stories, I won't).

There is always opposition when it comes to sex in games, even if "skip" is the default. The standards of our society are still like of a medieval cloister; rotten to the core, but still keeping the "façade" appearance of a "holy" institution. I remember the posts against the Witcher 1 "Sex" cards. Just silly. Things may need a proper packaging and implemented in a tasteful manner, but they need to be there, to allow life-like reactions.

More options are always better, if they are useful options. Many would like alternative ways of playing through games, other than just killing. Being a "murder hobo" is the golden standard, since crusades and before, but isn't better way than just sneaking through stealth, using diplomacy from friendly arguments to subtle mind control, and maybe now using that special charm "Casanova" or even being more subtle about it, like that happens in our real world.

How much graphics details for all these? I'm not making the game, but somehow I'm afraid that the most bloody killing scene would be "enjoyed" without any "skip" button, but even a mild sex scene would cause heart attacks. So I guess we don't want players dying during gaming and "skip" is needed, like those training wheels mounted parallel to the rear wheel of a bicycle that assist learners.
Posted By: Warlocke Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 27/09/20 07:23 PM
We have a pretty good idea what the sex scenes will look like. They showed a bit in the last community update video. You should probably watch that before trying to join the conversation about it.
Posted By: KillerRabbit Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 27/09/20 08:15 PM
All we've seen are a few seconds from a few scenes being developed, scenes that were put into the context of a story about a group of people who wouldn't normally associate with one another asking themselves if their common experiences have caused them to forge common bonds. I was kinda impressed by the author they interviewed. I saw some wine glasses being clanked and some facial expressions that made me giggle.

Like all the "we the we have a pretty good idea" statements I don't think we have enough info -- we will on the 6th.

But, with what we do have, I agree with @LoneSky when I compare the (lack) of reaction to the (much longer) pulling the-brain-out-of-the-skull scene and the negative reactions to some story boards. I'm reminded of the horror / erotica double standard. If an exposed breast gets a knife through it, that earns the movie a R rating / if an exposed breast is gently stroked the movie gets an NC17. Will no one think of the children?!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_Picture_Association_film_rating_system
Posted By: tsundokugames Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 27/09/20 08:42 PM
To me it is more a question of how dynamic the relationship interactions really are in play.

Time after time, video game "relationships" are these choose-your-own-adventure style games of connect the dots that end in the "requisite" sex scene. They are as formulaic and cringe worthy as they come. Nudity itself isn't the issue, centrally, but it is indicative of the patterns we've seen in games in the past that send questionable vibes. Add to that Larian's generally tongue in cheek way of approaching everything, it is difficult to imagine what an actually seriously approached relationship might look like from them.

Sex doesn't have to be explicit to be meaningful in a narrative. It doesn't even have to be present, necessarily, as there is an entire literary function called allusion that can often do a better job of reflecting the interpersonal emotions involved in the intercourse than "show and tell".

This was the first update that gave me real pause about the game, but I am still looking forward to seeing how this is managed.
Posted By: Warlocke Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 27/09/20 09:37 PM
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
All we've seen are a few seconds from a few scenes being developed, scenes that were put into the context of a story about a group of people who wouldn't normally associate with one another asking themselves if their common experiences have caused them to forge common bonds. I was kinda impressed by the author they interviewed. I saw some wine glasses being clanked and some facial expressions that made me giggle.

Like all the "we the we have a pretty good idea" statements I don't think we have enough info -- we will on the 6th.

But, with what we do have, I agree with @LoneSky when I compare the (lack) of reaction to the (much longer) pulling the-brain-out-of-the-skull scene and the negative reactions to some story boards. I'm reminded of the horror / erotica double standard. If an exposed breast gets a knife through it, that earns the movie a R rating / if an exposed breast is gently stroked the movie gets an NC17. Will no one think of the children?!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_Picture_Association_film_rating_system


No, you still aren’t getting it.

The horror / erotica double standard comes from a conception that depicting violence is more morally permissible than depicting nudity or sexuality.

That isn’t what has been stated in this thread.

People by and large haven’t been saying that don’t like the sex scenes because it is morally wrong. People’s dissatisfaction is that sex scenes between video characters often looks dumb, going off the deep edge into the uncanny valley.

It’s not:

violence = okay
sex = bad

It’s:

Animated sex with video game characters doesn’t look good.
Posted By: kanisatha Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 27/09/20 11:37 PM
Originally Posted by Warlocke
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
All we've seen are a few seconds from a few scenes being developed, scenes that were put into the context of a story about a group of people who wouldn't normally associate with one another asking themselves if their common experiences have caused them to forge common bonds. I was kinda impressed by the author they interviewed. I saw some wine glasses being clanked and some facial expressions that made me giggle.

Like all the "we the we have a pretty good idea" statements I don't think we have enough info -- we will on the 6th.

But, with what we do have, I agree with @LoneSky when I compare the (lack) of reaction to the (much longer) pulling the-brain-out-of-the-skull scene and the negative reactions to some story boards. I'm reminded of the horror / erotica double standard. If an exposed breast gets a knife through it, that earns the movie a R rating / if an exposed breast is gently stroked the movie gets an NC17. Will no one think of the children?!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_Picture_Association_film_rating_system


No, you still aren’t getting it.

The horror / erotica double standard comes from a conception that depicting violence is more morally permissible than depicting nudity or sexuality.

That isn’t what has been stated in this thread.

People by and large haven’t been saying that don’t like the sex scenes because it is morally wrong. People’s dissatisfaction is that sex scenes between video characters often looks dumb, going off the deep edge into the uncanny valley.

It’s not:

violence = okay
sex = bad

It’s:

Animated sex with video game characters doesn’t look good.

First off, I agree with @KillerRabbit in general here (that the violence and gore is what is over the top in the game). But @Warlocke I also get what you're saying in making a distinction. But I disagree with you in that IMO, no matter how bad animated sex scenes may be (and keeping in mind that we cannot necessarily compare how they will come out here to past games because the graphics tech level is significantly higher than in any previous similar game), even bad animated sex is -- for me -- way better than fade to black. Fade to black is the stupidest thing ever, and if that is what we get then I'd much rather we get no romance/sex cinematics at all.
Posted By: Warlocke Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 27/09/20 11:57 PM
Sure, I get that. It is a matter of preference. Ideally I think that there is a way to portray sex in games without just a fade to black that can work, but it needs to take into account the limitations of the medium and the tech being used.

Violence and gore are easy. Whether it is supposed to be comically or discomforting, it can be over the top and achieve whatever it’s objective may be.

Sex requires a lot more subtlety to be successful in achieving its end. When I see the sex scenes in this game my interpretation is that I’m supposed to be excited or titillated, based on the manner in which they are going about it.

But it just doesn’t work for me. The models and animations are great for their general purposes: showing turn based combat, which is already so abstracted that the presentation doesn’t need to be super realistic, or telling a story. The subtleties of intimacy are not being satisfied, however. Not at least in my estimation. Instead it seems wooden and unintentionally silly, and draws me into confrontation with the uncanny valley.

I just think this is one of those things that if it can’t be done well, it shouldn’t be attempted.
Posted By: LoneSky Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 28/09/20 12:54 AM
Maybe Cyberpunk will have it better, but I haven't watched their previews either. Still, I'm really trying to be open to new things. BG3 likely won't have motion capture tech helping out these scenes, but then neither for a throwing axe animation. We will still get it, few years ago graphics were far worse and games still were made. I'm more worried about the story side, to fit there and don't feel cheap; less worried about the graphical fidelity this time.
Posted By: Warlocke Re: Romance and/or Orientation options - 28/09/20 01:30 AM
Yeah, at the end of the day if I don’t like the sex scenes I can skip them. It’s far more important that the narrative interactions are satisfying.
Originally Posted by kanisatha
[quote=Warlocke][quote=KillerRabbit], even bad animated sex is -- for me -- way better than fade to black. Fade to black is the stupidest thing ever, and if that is what we get then I'd much rather we get no romance/sex cinematics at all.


Yes, even bad animated sex is better than none at all, and for some people, it might be all they ever have.

I think in my party, I am going to have one of my characters "fall in love" and "try and have a romance" with every one of the monsters we meet, from the Gelatinous Cube to the Owlbear. I wonder if the game will let me role play this "curse".
Posted By: Nyanko Re: Romance Options (toggle) - 28/09/20 10:05 AM
Posted By: LoneSky Re: Romance Options (toggle) - 28/09/20 01:02 PM
Actually just saw the latest update vid "Romance & Companionship" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYD5HHKmVT8
and they have motion capture tech... also the scenes so far are beautiful, though were just small samples in there, but looks like there's nothing to worry about, was nothing explicit, just similar to Dragon Age Origins

The only fear I have is the COVID, they were quite close to each other in that vid. Fingers crossed kind of thing, just hate that damn virus...
Posted By: deathidge Re: Romance Options (toggle) - 28/09/20 02:28 PM
First, they wouldn't put explicit stuff in a trailer; we saw their story boards...they definitely have explicit stuff in the works. Second, the people doing motion capture were young and have a 99.997% survival rate from this virus, I think they'll be fine.
Posted By: IndySandbagTrick Re: Romance Options (toggle) - 28/09/20 03:43 PM
Originally Posted by deathidge
[quote=LoneSky]

I'm all for keeping in all the relationship/romance dialogue but I wish they would cut the softcore porn scenes that add nothing to the game.


Your nothing is subjective, to me, that adds a level of relatability and realism that I very much want.

Sex is as natural as casting a spell - I'm glad we're seeing both in all their glory in various forms in BG3 laugh
Posted By: Apocynum Re: Romance Options (toggle) - 28/09/20 06:21 PM
Originally Posted by deathidge
Second, the people doing motion capture were young and have a 99.997% survival rate from this virus, I think they'll be fine.


a.) Data changes, but last time I checked, the CDC was estimating base mortality rate (i.e., for 18–29 year olds) at somewhere between 0.2%–1.5%, meaning your oh-so-confident 0.003% underestimates the risk by somewhere between a factor of sixty and a factor of five hundred.

b.) Even cases that don’t result in death can cause hospitalization and permanent complications.

c.) Even cases that don’t cause hospitalization, including asymptomatic cases, can infect other people who then are hospitalized or die. Cf the Maine “superspreader” wedding linked to seven deaths, none of whom attended the wedding.

d.) Just because something poses little risk to you yourself doesn’t make it a Cool, Fun, and Consequence-Free Activity. Personally, if all I cared about was myself I’d do a lot more crimes. But I care about other people, so I don’t.

e.) I’d lay money on much of the completed mo-cap, likely including the clips we saw, having been done before the pandemic kicked off.
Posted By: deathidge Re: Romance Options (toggle) - 28/09/20 07:08 PM
Originally Posted by Apocynum
[quote=deathidge]Second, the people doing motion capture were young and have a 99.997% survival rate from this virus, I think they'll be fine.


Originally Posted by Apocynum
a.) Data changes, but last time I checked, the CDC was estimating base mortality rate (i.e., for 18–29 year olds) at somewhere between 0.2%–1.5%, meaning your oh-so-confident 0.003% underestimates the risk by somewhere between a factor of sixty and a factor of five hundred.


Well seeing as only 9% of deaths, in the US, were purely COVID related the number are extremely inflated. There is no way of knowing how many of the other 91% are actually because of COVID.

Originally Posted by Apocynum
b.) Even cases that don’t result in death can cause hospitalization and permanent complications.


And? name a sickness/disease that can't do that.

Originally Posted by Apocynum
c.) Even cases that don’t cause hospitalization, including asymptomatic cases, can infect other people who then are hospitalized or die. Cf the Maine “superspreader” wedding linked to seven deaths, none of whom attended the wedding.


wut. how is this relevant?

Originally Posted by Apocynum
d.) Just because something poses little risk to you yourself doesn’t make it a Cool, Fun, and Consequence-Free Activity. Personally, if all I cared about was myself I’d do a lot more crimes. But I care about other people, so I don’t.


Where tf did I say it was a "cool, fun, and consequence-free activity? stop projecting. And that analogy is utterly senseless.

Originally Posted by Apocynum
e.) I’d lay money on much of the completed mo-cap, likely including the clips we saw, having been done before the pandemic kicked off.


Cool?

There are dozens of known cases, most likely hundreds/thousands of unknown cases, where sterile swabs were sent in and all came back positive. The numbers are massively inflated. There are CONFIRMED cases where poeple have died in accidents, like motorcycle accidents, and, because they 'tested' positive for COVID, COVID was ON THE DEATH CERTIFICATE. If you don't think there is an agenda behind this plannedemic then you need to get your head out of the sand. Covid-19 is a real disease, yes. It has killed people, yes. But not nearly as many as the media is touting. The common cold is just as deadly to seniors and those with pre-existing respiratory problems as Covid.
Posted By: The Composer Re: Romance Options (toggle) - 28/09/20 07:57 PM
Guys, this is not the right forum to discuss politics, and it is especially not right to derail and hijack a thread about it. Reel it in and get back on topic. Also, when you do find the right place to talk politics, try to refer to actual sources if you're going to bring in alleged statistics.

Any posts about covid or related politics in this thread will be removed.
Posted By: Warlocke Re: Romance Options (toggle) - 28/09/20 08:20 PM
Originally Posted by The Composer
Guys, this is not the right forum to discuss politics, and it is especially not right to derail and hijack a thread about it. Reel it in and get back on topic. Also, when you do find the right place to talk politics, try to refer to actual sources if you're going to bring in alleged statistics.

Any posts about covid or related politics in this thread will be removed.


Thank you.
Posted By: IndySandbagTrick Re: Romance Options (toggle) - 28/09/20 11:19 PM
Back OT, I'm hoping to romance all the members of the party, creating conflict and resulting in at least one walk off from the party.
Posted By: vometia Re: Romance Options (toggle) - 28/09/20 11:43 PM
Originally Posted by IndySandbagTrick
Back OT, I'm hoping to romance all the members of the party, creating conflict and resulting in at least one walk off from the party.

That did get a RL lol out of me. Good way to start the day. biggrin
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