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Posted By: Masakado Crafting? - 25/09/20 03:21 AM
I haven't seen any reference to this, but I am wondering whether there will be crafting in BGIII (and if so, how much). My suspicion is that this is at least part of what the "camp followers" are for, but I don't imagine we'll see it in EA. At least until we establish to the characters' knowledge that they aren't going to sprout tentacles in the very near future, I could see an argument that "there isn't time for that", but at some point I would hope we see something along those lines, whether it's shards of an item like in BG2 or genuine crafting like NWN2. I was somewhat disappointed in Kingmaker - having skinned the Crag Linnorm (and later the dragon), I discovered the only use was to sell the scales for a bit of gold. I ended up putting them in my kingdom storage as a "trophy", but there really should have been more you could do with such things.
Posted By: Warlocke Re: Crafting? - 25/09/20 03:28 AM
Nothing has been said about BG3, but in the DOS2 postmortem Swen said that he was pretty disappointed with how crafting panned out in that game, and would strongly consider not including crafting in future games.
Posted By: Masakado Re: Crafting? - 25/09/20 04:12 AM
DOS2 crafting was almost the exact opposite of what I'd be looking for from a crafting system. Making consumables (which you mostly don't use because the duration isn't long enough) and low quality gear out of scraps found everywhere maybe works in an MMO where you might be grinding for money, but for a single player (or low number of multiplayer) CRPG, gathering a few special ingredients for a more exotic item (you used to be able to make good armor from Bulette hide or Ankheg chitin, for example) or a more "legendary" weapon is what I had in mind - the venom sack of the spider matriarch we saw in Swen's attempt to get to the underdark, a special dagger taken from a cultist leader, maybe a rare gem, and you have a dagger of venom. Gear you wouldn't just toss or sell if you found it in a chest. I thought crafting in NWN2 was pretty good - I was able to make a suit of mithril plate for my warlock (I took the feat that let you wear medium armor), and I don't think I saw another suit of that in the entire game.

If they're not doing crafting, one has to wonder why you're dragging around a retinue of "camp followers" like the Svirfneblin who we're told will eventually join you as a follower if you rescue him enough (personally I'm speeding up the windmill and sending him into orbit at least once). And what they're doing to replace the githyanki ability to be proficient in another set of tools (though that would solve the "only 1 rogue problem).

It's not a make or break thing for me (as long as it doesn't force you to make dozens of poison fish pies so your undead party member can actually heal after a rough fight - I ended up carrying around so many void tainted fish of different kinds there should have been an achievement "toxic fishmonger"), but I was curious to see what, if anything they do. If the mission is time sensitive (and it at least starts that way) it's completely fair to say "making stuff takes time you don't have" and drop it.
Posted By: Tzelanit Re: Crafting? - 25/09/20 08:39 AM
I generally enjoy crafting, but a lot of games are either underwhelming in their implementation and offer nothing better than you'd find or is necessary, or crafting is grossly overpowered and completely breaks the scaling and makes gear found in the world useless. DOS1 crafting was a pain and an absolute chore, being better left to "camped" party members. DOS2 crafting was largely unnecessary. I wouldn't be upset to see it in BG3 as I do love crafting in general, but I'm not entirely sure that it'll be necessary or may fit into whatever loot balancing system that might be in place.
Posted By: Nyanko Re: Crafting? - 25/09/20 08:50 AM
Apart from a very few instances, I have never seen much crafting in my pnp D&D campaigns. I guess they won't put much resources in making something deep in BG3. But I could be wrong. Nothing has been said about it so far though, so I assume it's a minor feature if ever it makes it into the game at all.
Posted By: Languid Lizard Re: Crafting? - 25/09/20 10:21 AM
Isn't there an Artificer class in D&D 5th Edition? I am not sure how that would fit in with Baldur's Gate III, if they couldn't manufacture anything. SCUM is a game with a big crafting element to it that is reasonably popular.

Perhaps spell component crafting could be examined in the game.
Posted By: AnonySimon Re: Crafting? - 25/09/20 10:42 AM
D&D 5e has almost no crafting (well except for mundane crap like arrows and weak consumables; technically you could craft non-magical weapons and armor, but the amount of time and resources it takes makes it just not worth it). Unlike previous editions of the game (D&D 2e, D&D 3.5, etc), magical crafting has almost no support (if any). For these two reasons, I doubt that there will be extensive crafting support in BG3. Would I like to have crafting support? Yes. But I don't really see it happening outside of say making arrows, poison, or potions of healing.
Posted By: Skallewag Re: Crafting? - 25/09/20 10:45 AM
There is such a class in official DnD material, there is however no such class in the players handbook and the scope of BG3 is to get as much as possible from the phb into the game.

Artificers will haveto be a consideration for future BG games.
Posted By: Sordak Re: Crafting? - 25/09/20 11:16 AM
DOS1 crafting was fantastic, DOS 2 crafting was shit. Idk why that is,t hey removed half the options from it.
I wouldnt say crafting is the problem, id say the implementation in OS2 was just bad
Posted By: Bukke Re: Crafting? - 25/09/20 03:48 PM
Originally Posted by Warlocke
Nothing has been said about BG3, but in the DOS2 postmortem Swen said that he was pretty disappointed with how crafting panned out in that game, and would strongly consider not including crafting in future games.

This is the first time I hear this but I, for one, am glad to hear it.
I honestly did not like crafting in DOS2 and aside from just being a source of upgrading your equipment (a process that might as well be given to an NPC such as a blacksmith) and making slip-resistance boots I don't recall using it much in DOS1 either.
Funnily enough I'm not exactly against the concept of crafting, I just really didn't like how having it in the game caused your inventory as well as every loot container to be full of hundreds upon hundreds of different crafting materials and miscellaneous objects you picked up somewhere along your journey.
Posted By: qhristoff Re: Crafting? - 25/09/20 05:02 PM
The crafting in New World preview was absolutely superb.
Posted By: Languid Lizard Re: Crafting? - 25/09/20 07:13 PM
Originally Posted by qhristoff
The crafting in New World preview was absolutely superb.

Could you please tell us a bit about that, ghristoff? What did you like about it?
Posted By: qhristoff Re: Crafting? - 25/09/20 08:50 PM
It was a satisfying game loop of farming and refining resources and creating your own gear, and as you level your crafting your chances for rare and unique effects increases. Crafting is easy to get in to with resources being readily available throughout the starting zones with reasonable respawn rates for nodes. Crafted gear surpasses found gear, meaning that short of quest rewards/unique sets, you are always able to repair/gear up to meet the challenges ahead. Most importantly, crafting was relevant to the game play as you quested in how they placed the progressive resources and questing areas. They did everything right.
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: Crafting? - 25/09/20 09:39 PM
I like crafting in MMO because it's often well done and usefull but in solo games in which the story is what matter, I usually find it boring.
Plant, plant, flower, plant, skin, flower, skin, plant,... things everywhere to create useless potion, useless weapons and useless armors... That's absolutely not fun to me.

Not sure it can be call "craft" but the specific items you can create in BG 2 suited very well to a D&D game to me.
(flail of ages, the equalizer, short bow of gesen,...)

It was a simple feature but incredible to me because it was like side quests in which every steps leaded you closer to your very special and powerfull weapon.

I'd really LOVE they implement that kind of quests/craft/items in BG3.

+ That's another easy and enjoyable feature for BG3 to become a little bit more BG smile
+ That's an easy way of creating "quests" starting on a map (act) and ending on another one, which looks important to me in a game where the FR worldmap is full of invisible walls.
Posted By: Warlocke Re: Crafting? - 25/09/20 11:09 PM
I am one of those gamers that generally has no interest in crafting, so its potential exclusion is nothing lost for me. BG2 style crafting where you just take 2 or 3 components to a special smith would be great though.
Posted By: qhristoff Re: Crafting? - 25/09/20 11:49 PM
I also really enjoyed the enhancement system in Pillars of Eternity, and the ability to find parts to unique weapons that were lore specific.
Posted By: Bukke Re: Crafting? - 25/09/20 11:51 PM
Originally Posted by Warlocke
I am one of those gamers that generally has no interest in crafting, so its potential exclusion is nothing lost for me. BG2 style crafting where you just take 2 or 3 components to a special smith would be great though.

100% agree.
Bringing items to a specialist (or I suppose having one as a camp follower) in order to have them forge something special as opposed to just smacking some sticks and stones together makes way more sense to me.
I suppose an additional benefit of also having limited crafting materials is that you first and foremost won't have to play as a Dungeon Janitor that systematically sweeps through every container and puts 50 different logs and mushrooms into your bag. Then there's also the sense of wonder when you find a specific component and you know it's going to be used for something grand.
Posted By: Warlocke Re: Crafting? - 25/09/20 11:55 PM
Originally Posted by qhristoff
I also really enjoyed the enhancement system in Pillars of Eternity, and the ability to find parts to unique weapons that were lore specific.


Yeah, I actually include a similar system of upgrading in my own table top campaigns, so I’d be all for that.
Posted By: CandrianIllborne Re: Crafting? - 26/09/20 12:30 AM
Originally Posted by Warlocke
I am one of those gamers that generally has no interest in crafting, so its potential exclusion is nothing lost for me. BG2 style crafting where you just take 2 or 3 components to a special smith would be great though.


I like it like this too. So much simpler and makes for a lot less junky loot in the world.
Posted By: Masakado Re: Crafting? - 26/09/20 06:26 AM
I think for a single player game, a designer working of crafting should always have 2 questions at the front of his or her mind:

1) How easy is it for the player to find the exact same item?
2) How likely is this item to be sold rather than used?

DOS2 failed on both grounds (or if they had a good weapon or armor recipe I never found it). BG2 succeeded on the first (the artifacts were not replicable) and you were bound to use at least some of the items for a while.

One other consideration is customization: how many times have you found a cool item that you didn't really want to use because it's the wrong weapon? I suppose it's less of an issue in 5E, but in editions with "weapon specialization" type proficiencies/feats it was an issue. Gathering adamantine ingots, dragon's blood, and a gem taken from the heart of an earth elemental, taking it to a smith and being given the option of whether it's a sword, an axe or a hammer would be a nice change from "crap, if that wasn't a 2 handed weapon I'd be all over that"
Posted By: Sordak Re: Crafting? - 26/09/20 10:23 AM
>new world
poor mans conan exiles
Posted By: Zellin Re: Crafting? - 26/09/20 11:19 AM
Shortly, I prefer when crafting adds to the game not more things, but more depth and a little bit of satisfaction.
Main campaign of NWN was good example at some points. Crafting of regeneration ring there was more like side quest, just with no journal entry. You needed to have access to laboratory, find the recipe, find super rare ingredient... And the result was desirable.
Posted By: Stabbey Re: Crafting? - 26/09/20 12:26 PM
I am not a big fan of Crafting in games, it tends to be tedious, grindy, and underwhelming. DOS 1 and DOS 2 have not done anything to change my view on that. I really hope that any crafting in the game has been massively overhauled from DOS 2. Especially the tendency to have 1000 ingredients, each with one and only one use.

Originally Posted by Warlocke
Nothing has been said about BG3, but in the DOS2 postmortem Swen said that he was pretty disappointed with how crafting panned out in that game, and would strongly consider not including crafting in future games.


Oh thank goodness. Do you remember where you saw that postmortem? It sounds interesting.

EDIT: Was it this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKwi_5nePZg

EDIT 2: Yes, at about 59:11 for the mention of crafting.
Posted By: Dagless Re: Crafting? - 26/09/20 01:44 PM
I don’t mind crafting, sometimes I quite enjoy it. But collecting the things gets tiresome.

DOS games are far from the only offenders, but they were particularly egregious. Go into a room and there’s stuff in chests, desks, barrels, jars, bookcases, shelves, cabinets, as well as like a hundred items just lying in the open. You press the tab key (or whatever it was) and whole screen is covered in the labels of all the things to click on. Urgh!

Then they made it even worse with the “lucky charm” mechanic, which meant that any innocuous container could give you something really good. Jesus, who thought of that one?

I know it’s partly my fault for wanting to pick up anything and everything that might useful or valuable, but it doesn’t have to be like this. Just put anything I might want to collect in one or two places and make it obvious that that’s where I should look.

Maybe it’s more “realistic” to fill the game with items scattered all over the place, but I just don’t care. Does anyone actually enjoy the monotony of searching and looting each room like this?



Posted By: kanisatha Re: Crafting? - 26/09/20 02:18 PM
Originally Posted by Dagless
I know it’s partly my fault for wanting to pick up anything and everything that might useful or valuable, but it doesn’t have to be like this. Just put anything I might want to collect in one or two places and make it obvious that that’s where I should look.

I'm the same way, and that's why I like having some secure place where I can store all this stuff so I'm not carrying everything around with me.

Generally, speaking, I like having the crafting mechanic in my cRPGs, but agree with everyone else's critiques about what would make for a good and fun system versus what wouldn't.
Posted By: flick40 Re: Crafting? - 26/09/20 02:42 PM
I don't need crafting, that's for MMOs or survival games. I'm playing a hero not a blacksmith. But if its in the game, ok.
Posted By: vometia Re: Crafting? - 26/09/20 02:47 PM
Originally Posted by flick40
I don't need crafting, that's for MMOs or survival games. I'm playing a hero not a blacksmith. But if its in the game, ok.

It's the constant need to keep repairing equipment that does my head in. I'm glad Larian decreed it's officially not fun and completely ditched that particular feature.
Posted By: Tzelanit Re: Crafting? - 26/09/20 04:10 PM
Originally Posted by Masakado
I think for a single player game, a designer working of crafting should always have 2 questions at the front of his or her mind:

1) How easy is it for the player to find the exact same item?
2) How likely is this item to be sold rather than used?

DOS2 failed on both grounds (or if they had a good weapon or armor recipe I never found it). BG2 succeeded on the first (the artifacts were not replicable) and you were bound to use at least some of the items for a while.

One other consideration is customization: how many times have you found a cool item that you didn't really want to use because it's the wrong weapon? I suppose it's less of an issue in 5E, but in editions with "weapon specialization" type proficiencies/feats it was an issue. Gathering adamantine ingots, dragon's blood, and a gem taken from the heart of an earth elemental, taking it to a smith and being given the option of whether it's a sword, an axe or a hammer would be a nice change from "crap, if that wasn't a 2 handed weapon I'd be all over that"


Armour of the Eternals was solid for a good while. Also, the Vulture crafted set from the Relics of Rivellon was good, but that was kind of a "gimme" and just a consequence of the questline. Outside of those two specific instances, nothing else was worth crafting over what could be found, unfortunately.
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