Larian Studios
Hey guys, my name's Gary, i'm 36 yrs old...a retired attorney raising 2 kids, and a lifelong lover of rpg and Baldur's Gate. I've done so many run-throughs of Baldur's Gate and BGII that I can't remember some of them. Solo runs, runs with every class, race, and combination thereof. I've downloaded mods to change the game, to randomize the drops so I didn't know where all the best weapons were anymore. Re-bought the enhanced editions, Siege of Dragonspear, ect. All of this is to say, I know BG I and II inside and out, and I come to this game with high expectations. I've also played PoE and DOS, Dragon Age, and Skyrim. None of them captured the magic of BGI or II in my opinion. None of them made me want to endlessly replay, or in some cases, even finish, the game.

What was it that made BGI and II so special? For me, it was the combination of open-world exploration, unforgiving consequences, and exactling specialization.

Why can't a thief pick up a 2 handed greatsword? Why is a cleric restricted to maces and war hammers? Why do druids favor quarterstaffs? There is a logical, realistic explanation for each of these. Sure a thief "could" pick up a 2 hander, but he is a thief. He has spent his life learning to pick pockets, hide in shadows, find traps, and open locks. He has developed high levels of dexterity and charisma. Have you ever picked up a 2 handed sword? It's extremely heavy, and it's double-edged. You will kill yourself with it if you try to use it in battle and don't know what you are doing. THIS is why thieves can't use them in BGI or II. Because it wouldn't make sense. Clerics, likewise, have focused much of their lives on their god/goddesses, learning how to call down their power, and use simpler, less skill intensive weapons as a result. There are common sense reasons behind every specialization, but this leads to the endless replayability. How many times did you come across a weapon of incredible power and couldn't use it effectively. Then did you wonder how powerful your character would be if he had grandmastery in katana's while wielding Celestial Fury? So what did you have to do? Play the game again, this time as a dual-classed fighter/thief who achieved grandmastery in katana's before changing his profession. THIS was the kind of situation that led to unlimited replayability.

Now as to the open-world exploration, do you remember Baldur's Gate I, when you left candlekeep, and the whole sword coast opened up to you, all at once? You could follow the path and course that were recommended for you, that would more the story along, OR you could literally wander the countryside discovering new maps and zones to your hearts content, and very easily be eaten by a wolf or gibberling if you weren't ready for it. This feeling of freedom was unprecedented, and still to this day only truly exists in Baldur's Gate I. Even BGII had a much more linear path that didn't allow travel to other areas unless you had a quest for it. And what happened if you did that in BGI and bit off more than you could chew? Death and reload. If your party member died but not too horribly, you could resurrect with a spell or by taking him to a temple, but if your MC died...no helping hand would be getting him up. That made it more challenging, and also more satisfying.

How do I feel about BG3? Well, it's good. I enjoy playing it. I enjoy the co-op a lot more than single player, because controlling 4 characters by myself in turn-based combat is...tedious. But it's still a good story with gorgeous graphics and it's set in one of my favorite fantasy worlds of all time. But it isn't magical. The terrain forces you to go where you need to go. No true freedom of exploration to be had here. But this is okay, most games are like this nowadays, Pillars of Eternity being the exception.

The weapon and spell structure is almost generic. How does a shield dwarf soldier have the SAME proficiency in war hammers as a rogue soldier? lol, I just can't. How do spells "miss?" I mean, it's magic...now magic misses? BGI and II rolled for damage, not for hit, and included a sophisticated resistence and immunity structure based on class, race, item bonuses, and spell protections, to create a complex and refined system. In comparison, BG3 's magic and weapons systems feel made for a 6 year old. It's dumbed down. The specialization is gone, for the most part. The endless customization seems more focused on cosmetics then skills. You gave me 40 different hair styles to choose from, but you won't give me 5 levels of weapon specialization? I've got a shield dwarf right now that does more damage with a longsword than a battle axe. I don't understand the reasoning behind that, and I think that's because there isn't any. I think Larian just doesn't grasp or value the importance of weapon specialization and how it relates to replayability.

Dialogue is also tedious. I read a lot faster than people talk. I enjoy a cutscene here or there, especially on important interactions. But for some reason Larian has decided every single interaction needs to be voiced and acted. I don't understand this either, but at least they allow me to skip through it with the spacebar.

And finally, it almost seems like the game is doing everything it can to keep you from dying. Lose all your HP? So what, a teammate will just pick you up by the hand and ur back on your feet. Nearly dead? No healing spells? Meh, just hit that campsite button. No need to find a cleric and spend money, or rest to replenish your party's heal spells. Maybe this is appealing to some, but I don't play a game for it to be easy. I want the challenge. BG3 is better than some games about this, but the "help" feature is just lame. You would be much better served doing away with it.

I won't get into the turn-based combat vs real time with pause debate here, as I can see how real time with pause in this game would be difficult to pull off. For the way this game is constructed, I understand the decision.

It's probably way too late for them to do anything with the weapon specializations, but it is my biggest disappointment. I loved being able to take a dwarf fighter all the way to grandmastery with hammers and axes and dual wield one in each hand, then go back and do it again with a different weapon. Now it almost seems like it just doesn't matter what character i am or what weapon i pick up, if i just choose soldier for the background of ANY of my classes.

So, for me, as it stands, good game, will finish it, but will also probably be done with it after 2 or 3 playthroughs, and that is just so extremely disappointing.
Oh, as a side note, in multiplayer my friends and I have noticed that sometimes, the game allows multiple people to be attacking at the same time. We aren't sure if this is a glitch or just a feature of having more than one person able to control characters, and it seems that it still only gives us one turn per round, but if it is a glitch...please don't fix it. This is one of those good bugs that really make the game flow better. Please keep it, make it a staple feature. IF all 4 players can execute their turn each round without having to switch from character to character, co op will be greatly superior to single player.
Characters being able to move simultaneously when their truths coincide is an intentional design, not a bug.

A lot of your complaints are more about 5th Edition D&D rather than BG3 specifically, and those rules will not be changed.
Posted By: Stabbey Re: A more coherent letter to Larian Studios - 13/10/20 07:50 PM
tl;dr: "This is not 2e, I want another game based on the 22-year old rules".
Posted By: AlanC9 Re: A more coherent letter to Larian Studios - 13/10/20 07:55 PM
Some magic has been capable of missing the target since 3.0, if not earlier.
Also, you don’t seem to understand how proficiencies work. The soldier background gives skill proficiencies in athletics and intimidation, but does not give any weapon proficiencies. A rogue using a Warhammer will not get to use their proficiency bonus when attacking.

Specific weapon proficiencies are gone, but in 2nd edition D&D, weapon proficiency was pretty much the only thing fighters could choose to make themselves distinct from one another. In 5th edition ever class is making some sort of choice every time they level up, allowing for far more variety than the rigidity if 2E ever could.
Maybe it's time for a 6th edition then. This post isn't about DnD edition rules, but what makes a great game. There's a reason Baldur's Gate continues to be one of the all-time great games, and if that reason is that the 2nd and 3rd edition rules lent itself to a better pc game, we shouldn't be dismissing it simply because it's 22 years old.
Originally Posted by WeiShiLindon
Maybe it's time for a 6th edition then. This post isn't about DnD edition rules, but what makes a great game. There's a reason Baldur's Gate continues to be one of the all-time great games, and if that reason is that the 2nd and 3rd edition rules lent itself to a better pc game, we shouldn't be dismissing it simply because it's 22 years old.


5th edition is wildly popular and with good reason. As somebody who grew up playing AD&D 2/2.5, I will take 5E any day. The old rules were often convoluted and arbitrary. There was nothing refined about the old saving throw tables. 😂
Posted By: Stabbey Re: A more coherent letter to Larian Studios - 13/10/20 08:31 PM
Originally Posted by WeiShiLindon
Maybe it's time for a 6th edition then. This post isn't about DnD edition rules, but what makes a great game. There's a reason Baldur's Gate continues to be one of the all-time great games, and if that reason is that the 2nd and 3rd edition rules lent itself to a better pc game, we shouldn't be dismissing it simply because it's 22 years old.


Then that letter should go to WotC, not Larian Studios, who have been contracted by WotC to make a game based on the current existing rules, not the 22-year old rules. This is in part because WotC is a business and they want people to get excited and buy their current products.
Originally Posted by WeiShiLindon
Maybe it's time for a 6th edition then. This post isn't about DnD edition rules, but what makes a great game. There's a reason Baldur's Gate continues to be one of the all-time great games, and if that reason is that the 2nd and 3rd edition rules lent itself to a better pc game, we shouldn't be dismissing it simply because it's 22 years old.


It really is though. You don't like very core things to 5E. On that though, BG3 does not so a faithful implementation of the whole system. Even so, like with proficiency, that won't change. They're determined by both class and background. You want it to be by class only.
Originally Posted by Warlocke
Originally Posted by WeiShiLindon
Maybe it's time for a 6th edition then. This post isn't about DnD edition rules, but what makes a great game. There's a reason Baldur's Gate continues to be one of the all-time great games, and if that reason is that the 2nd and 3rd edition rules lent itself to a better pc game, we shouldn't be dismissing it simply because it's 22 years old.


5th edition is wildly popular and with good reason. As somebody who grew up playing AD&D 2/2.5, I will take 5E any day. The old rules were often convoluted and arbitrary. There was nothing refined about the old saving throw tables. 😂

Really? because I can't find any other pc games based on 5th edition dnd rules. BG3 is the first one to my knowledge. You seem to be trying to make this about the rule set, but I'm trying to focus on computer games. It may be wildly popular, but the jury is still out on whether it makes for a great computer game.
Posted By: Stabbey Re: A more coherent letter to Larian Studios - 13/10/20 08:42 PM
Originally Posted by WeiShiLindon
Really? because I can't find any other pc games based on 5th edition dnd rules. BG3 is the first one to my knowledge. You seem to be trying to make this about the rule set, but I'm trying to focus on computer games. It may be wildly popular, but the jury is still out on whether it makes for a great computer game.


4E probably would have made a better videogame. No one ever made one, though. There's another 5e-based game entering EA in a week: Solasta: Crown of the Magister.
Originally Posted by WeiShiLindon
Originally Posted by Warlocke
Originally Posted by WeiShiLindon
Maybe it's time for a 6th edition then. This post isn't about DnD edition rules, but what makes a great game. There's a reason Baldur's Gate continues to be one of the all-time great games, and if that reason is that the 2nd and 3rd edition rules lent itself to a better pc game, we shouldn't be dismissing it simply because it's 22 years old.


5th edition is wildly popular and with good reason. As somebody who grew up playing AD&D 2/2.5, I will take 5E any day. The old rules were often convoluted and arbitrary. There was nothing refined about the old saving throw tables. 😂

Really? because I can't find any other pc games based on 5th edition dnd rules. BG3 is the first one to my knowledge. You seem to be trying to make this about the rule set, but I'm trying to focus on computer games. It may be wildly popular, but the jury is still out on whether it makes for a great computer game.


I’m just letting you know that lots of your complaints have to do with you not liking (and in some cases not understanding) 5th edition rules. Larian does not have a choice in whether or not to use 5th edition, so those rules aren’t going to be changed in BG3.

That being said, a lot of the rules in BG 1 and 2 didn’t work particularly well. Choosing your weapon proficiencies for a fighter is not more engaging or interesting than building a fighter in 5th edition / BG3 for most people.
Originally Posted by Stabbey
Originally Posted by WeiShiLindon
Maybe it's time for a 6th edition then. This post isn't about DnD edition rules, but what makes a great game. There's a reason Baldur's Gate continues to be one of the all-time great games, and if that reason is that the 2nd and 3rd edition rules lent itself to a better pc game, we shouldn't be dismissing it simply because it's 22 years old.


Then that letter should go to WotC, not Larian Studios, who have been contracted by WotC to make a game based on the current existing rules, not the 22-year old rules. This is in part because WotC is a business and they want people to get excited and buy their current products.


Alright look, Larian Studios wants feedback, and this is mine. If you think I should be writing to WotC, i say, maybe WotC will listen to Larian Studios a bit more closely then they would me. It's just my opinion. I'm not trying to pick a fight lol.

As for class vs background, nah that's really not it. I don't care if it's determined by both class and background, I just think there should be more to it past character creation. Seems to have great depth at character creation, but is surprisingly shallow thereafter, in my opinion.
I wish 5e gave us epic levels, or more attributes available.
I totally understand your point of view because I have nearly the same experience than you about BG1/2.

But I have to agree with others (and I don't often agree with some of them^^), the rules had changed, and that's good.
This is a little bit disturbing but the more I try to understand those rules, the more I think they're great for a video game.

That said, it's only about the rules and that's not your entire message...

About exploration, I totally agree with you. The feelings in BG1/2 were way different than here. Again, the worldmap is USELESS, as in DoS and I'm very dissapointed about that.
BG3 deserve something better than a cosmetic worldmap... even if the structure of the maps/act/region won't change.
At least I really hope they'll change their awfull MMORPG fast travel system for it to hbecome a part of the worldmap. Better than nothing I guess.

I also agree with dialogs... and even more because I read them in french... And I read way faster than they talk... and I don't always understand what they say smile
Even for a totally useless dialogs, you have those cinematics (hello the 2 characters dying on the nautiloid), fully voiced to say... nothing interresting...
This is a waste of time and a waste of ressources... Those cinematics are great but should stick to interresting, related to quests, lore and that kind of things...
Someone that say "I have nothing to say, you just loose 15 seconds" should say it in a popup, not in a cinematic. Gonna be fun when we'll reach Baldur's Gate....

I also agree woth the HP things but I think things has to be balanced.
There are too many things to keep your HP high during battles ("oh wait, I'm going to eat an apple before I try to hit you"), and even with that you have to rest everytime because of your spells...


That said, please try to reconsider things and think about the game in a few days/weeks.

Maybe I'm too optimistic but I really think it's still time for it to become a legendary BG new gen.
Of course many things have to change according to me and Larian has to hear/understand why BG1/2 are still in the head of so many people... and why it became legendary games.

Posted By: Mky Re: A more coherent letter to Larian Studios - 13/10/20 09:05 PM
Originally Posted by WeiShiLindon
If you think I should be writing to WotC, i say, maybe WotC will listen to Larian Studios a bit more closely then they would me. It's just my opinion. I'm not trying to pick a fight lol.


No, but he is. Judging by his first comment he's clearly not here to listen to people having different opinions.

Anyway i'm agree with your opinion on character builds. So far it seems quite poor compared to other editions like 2e or 3e but we can't realy judge knowing that lvl are capped to 4 and that there will be tons of items to build with and around.
Posted By: Stabbey Re: A more coherent letter to Larian Studios - 13/10/20 09:19 PM
Originally Posted by Mky
No, but he is. Judging by his first comment he's clearly not here to listen to people having different opinions.


Different opinions are fine. But "I want the game to have the 2e rules" isn't a useful opinion, because it is flat out not going to happen.
Posted By: Stilvan Re: A more coherent letter to Larian Studios - 13/10/20 09:35 PM
Gary, can I point you to Pathfinder:Kingmaker or its followup Pathfinder:Wrath of the Righteous if you haven't seen them. These should provide you with the experience you're looking for. The 3.5e system Pathfinder is based on is as far above 2e in complexity and verisimilitudinous modelling as 5e is below it - I think you'll be in heaven. Take a look.

Originally Posted by Stabbey
Originally Posted by Mky
No, but he is. Judging by his first comment he's clearly not here to listen to people having different opinions.


Different opinions are fine. But "I want the game to have the 2e rules" isn't a useful opinion, because it is flat out not going to happen.


Learn to read Stabbey... He probably didn't know about the rules. Warlocke inform him... You taunt him spitting your poison again.

Everyone is not a D&D player and not everyone is hype by the game because it's D&D. He is because it's Baldur's Gate, and Baldur's Gate is not only D&D wink
Posted By: Eguzky Re: A more coherent letter to Larian Studios - 13/10/20 10:18 PM
Most the OP's complaints fall into 2 categories:

1) Not understanding 5E rules.

2) Liking Baldur's Gate 1 & 2's ruleset more.


You're fine to have your opinion, OP, but a post like this is akin to having your friend bake you his first professional cake after he graduates culinary school. He gives you a slice and asks your opinion, and you say 'It's not pie. I like pie. I like the apple pie I had last year. Why can't this be more like that pie?'

It's information, but nothing your friend can use in regards to that 5th Edition cake he made.


For your information:
Weapon proficiency is weapon proficiency; if you are proficient with a weapon, you add your proficiency bonus. If your Prof Bonus is a +3 and your proficient with Short swords; add +3 to your attack. And add your Str mod to the damage. It does not matter if you're a rogue, a warrior or even a mage. If you are proficient, you can use that weapon to it's fullest effect.
And spells have been able to miss since at least 3.5; a ranged touch attack spell misses if you don't hit the characters flat-footed AC. A ray attack can be dodged.
I think only area of effect spells can't miss, but they can be resisted.

And weapons have a flat damage. It's not Larian's choice if weapon <x> has a higher damage than weapon <y>. It has nothing to do with Larian balancing the weapons or 'not grasping' any importance.

And I believe your Proficiency Bonus is also added to skills you are Proficient in. IE: Anyone can do any skill, but you won't get that sweet +3 Prof. Bonus added on unless you are Proficient in it.

And your Background gives you 2 Skill Proficiencies. Not weapon or armor proficiencies.

I don't think you even get skill points anymore. It's just your Ability Mod + Proficiency (If you are proficient)


So, again; many of your complaints boil down to either not understanding a new ruleset (which happens to everyone) or just liking AD&D more.
Ya know, it is still an EA. So as far as open/big world and sandboxy, it still has room to be that. I think it has handled the many paths style to each end perfectly fine so far. So I hope it continues on the path it is on. Good write up though.
Originally Posted by Stilvan
Gary, can I point you to Pathfinder:Kingmaker or its followup Pathfinder:Wrath of the Righteous if you haven't seen them. These should provide you with the experience you're looking for. The 3.5e system Pathfinder is based on is as far above 2e in complexity and verisimilitudinous modelling as 5e is below it - I think you'll be in heaven. Take a look.



I played Kingmaker. It didn't do it for me. I think I made it about 30 hours of gametime. I can't really put a finger on why i wasn't in heaven with Kingmaker, but it just didn't hook me.
Posted By: _Vic_ Re: A more coherent letter to Larian Studios - 13/10/20 11:01 PM
I understand the OP´s concerns, but most of your criticisms are about the 5th edition of D&D, the rules that the game follows, not the game itself.
That´s the way it is now. They can change some things here and there, but the core rules will be in the game.
Posted By: LoneSky Re: A more coherent letter to Larian Studios - 13/10/20 11:14 PM
Looks like the 5th edition rules aren't that great after all. I don't know who made them and why, but would be useful to have a sticky post somewhere here with those rules, and a very detailed explanation of why everything is like that.

I never heard of any of these before, so no comments beyond that these should be clarified right on this site for people like the OP.
There are many reasons for frustration, and understanding why things are how they are can go a long way.
Posted By: Lindon Re: A more coherent letter to Larian Studios - 13/10/20 11:46 PM
OP, I don't know why you stole my name or why you chose to be an imposter, but I'll try to offer my perspective.

Larian seems to have adhered to the 5e rules too closely in many cases. It's as if they've never played a game of D&D in their life and they learned it all from the rule books, or maybe WOTC just forced them to. To top it off, 5th edition apparently dumbs down a lot of things, so if you're looking for in-depth character customizations it's not the greatest IMO. Whatever the case may be, Larian chose to make a video game based on D&D 5e rules and called Baldur's Gate 3, and they're the ones I paid, so I expect them to make good decisions and deliver an enjoyable product. Anything to do with WOTC, 5e rules being that way, or whatever is irrelevant to me. 5th edition rules could say that a jump is a bonus action and every dialogue requires a skill check and I'd say Larian should know to get rid of garbage like that that won't translate well to a PC game and won't be enjoyable.

I feel like this game came so close to bridging the gap between 2D Baldur's Gate and 3D gaming, similar to what NWN tried to do. However it's not quite there and I don't think it ever will be. Not due to a lack of technical skill, but rather due to a lack of understanding, bad design decisions, and too much re-use of Divinity assets & mechanics. It'll probably be a good game when it's finished, but it's not going to be for everyone.
Posted By: Argyle Re: A more coherent letter to Larian Studios - 13/10/20 11:56 PM
I suspect the 5E rules were made with computer games in mind. This was likely not the case with the previous rule sets. For example, in NWN during the end battle my mage ran out of spells and charged items, and so had to resort to beating the end-boss with a club. It took a while to do that, and as you can imagine, it was not a satisfyingly splendid display of the finest magery. BioWare thanked me for my my feedback, and noted that it was good that I used all my items. One can never know for certain, but I believe my story is the basis for the unlimited/repeatable use of cantrips in 5E, so that wizards will never again have to resort to beating the end-boss with a club.
Posted By: Eguzky Re: A more coherent letter to Larian Studios - 14/10/20 12:10 AM
Originally Posted by Argyle
I suspect the 5E rules were made with computer games in mind. This was likely not the case with the previous rule sets. For example, in NWN during the end battle my mage ran out of spells and charged items, and so had to resort to beating the end-boss with a club. It took a while to do that, and as you can imagine, it was not a satisfyingly splendid display of the finest magery. BioWare thanked me for my my feedback, and noted that it was good that I used all my items. One can never know for certain, but I believe my story is the basis for the unlimited/repeatable use of cantrips in 5E, so that wizards will never again have to resort to beating the end-boss with a club.


Ohh, no. 4E was the 'video game' ruleset. :P
I rolled a character for 4E, and then got bored when I realize my Cleric would be no different form my Friend's Cleric because our powers were so module and streamlined.
4E felt like a bloody PC game badly ported to pen & paper in an attempt to bring in the 'gamer' crowd.
I predicted this, fans of the old Baldur's gate games complaining about the new game (Yes I've played them). I haven't played BG3 yet (still downloading) but all I have to say is A) I'm much more excited about a game based off 5e, and two D&D games need to be turn based! Those are my thoughts going into this. We'll see after I've played a bit, but at the moment I'm super hyped!
Posted By: Jayce Re: A more coherent letter to Larian Studios - 14/10/20 12:38 AM
Originally Posted by WeiShiLindon
Maybe it's time for a 6th edition then. This post isn't about DnD edition rules, but what makes a great game. There's a reason Baldur's Gate continues to be one of the all-time great games, and if that reason is that the 2nd and 3rd edition rules lent itself to a better pc game, we shouldn't be dismissing it simply because it's 22 years old.


Oh man. If you find 5th edition a little disappointing, you should thank your lucky stars BG-3 wasn't made with 4th! LOL!
I read the first third of OP's post and then wrote it off when it became very clear that the general sentiment here is: "BG3 isn't based on the 2e ruleset and this game isn't doing justice to my nostalgia."
This might require another thread but most people are focusing on the 2nd vs 5th ed portion of the letter but as important is the "open world" / non-linear model of BG.

Especially in BG1 I could just forget the plot altogether and decide to see what was happening on the coast for a time. Linearity has been weakness of nearly all the successors to BG such as SoD and PoE1. PoE2 comes closest. Plot? Whatever, I'm going sailing.

I'm waiting to see if act 2 is like chapter 2 of BG2. Can I just go anywhere? If so I think a "skip act 1" mod will be popular just like "Dungeon be gone" was a popular bg2 mod.
BG1 was very open, but BG2 wasn’t. You could only travel directly to locations outside of Athkatla after you learned about them from NPCs, as opposed to just picking a direction and going on a journey map by map like in BG1. The OP admits this, so it makes it a weird thing to critique. Would it be nice if BG3 was a giant open world, sure, but I’d rather get the game in one year instead of three, and at a certain point Larian will start seeing diminishing returns in how much they are invested versus how many units they will sell, so it just isn’t happening and really isn’t worth talking about.
Posted By: Argyle Re: A more coherent letter to Larian Studios - 14/10/20 01:08 AM
The open exploration of BG1 was one of its best features, despite numerous complaints from Draconis, except for that little area in the Northeast part of the city where the Blushing Mermaid inn was located. It took me a long time to figure out how to get across the split map. Ironically, D&D had a spell for just such a situation, Passwall, which was not in the game.
You shared your piece and that is what they want. This game isn't final, that is why they wanted to do this and give it a solid year, perhaps some of these things will be addressed, I wouldn't rule that out.

One thing that hits home with me you mentioned is the Voice Acting and speed. Pretty much any game you play with VA has overly dramatic acting which slows the dialog down, I still love VA games, I actually like to hear the protagonists ask questions as well, but you can't have everything. Two things: turn off text dialog so you can't read along, that can help relax and listen at their pace. That said I always look for innovation to the standard and as we know things like Youtube has 1.25x speed etc and you can still clearly hear and get the message. A game with a toggle option like that would be a way to address this issue and it is one because they all over-act.

Another TB feature I throw out there from time to time and try something different is to record the actual TB battle and after you fight or whenever you can go back and watch it play out user-less with dramatic camera angles, it would look more realtime and have some cool close up action sequences I'm sure. Perhaps even record all the dialog choices and watch the game you played as a movie and share. I dunno I think that would be cool and something to really knock our socks off, BG5 stuff. That said, I do like for example how they've incorporated dialog choices into streams where the audience can make a choice, I like steps forward like that, that invests the audience more.
Originally Posted by Eguzky
Most the OP's complaints fall into 2 categories:

1) Not understanding 5E rules.

2) Liking Baldur's Gate 1 & 2's ruleset more.


You're fine to have your opinion, OP, but a post like this is akin to having your friend bake you his first professional cake after he graduates culinary school. He gives you a slice and asks your opinion, and you say 'It's not pie. I like pie. I like the apple pie I had last year. Why can't this be more like that pie?'

It's information, but nothing your friend can use in regards to that 5th Edition cake he made.


For your information:
Weapon proficiency is weapon proficiency; if you are proficient with a weapon, you add your proficiency bonus. If your Prof Bonus is a +3 and your proficient with Short swords; add +3 to your attack. And add your Str mod to the damage. It does not matter if you're a rogue, a warrior or even a mage. If you are proficient, you can use that weapon to it's fullest effect.
And spells have been able to miss since at least 3.5; a ranged touch attack spell misses if you don't hit the characters flat-footed AC. A ray attack can be dodged.
I think only area of effect spells can't miss, but they can be resisted.

And weapons have a flat damage. It's not Larian's choice if weapon <x> has a higher damage than weapon <y>. It has nothing to do with Larian balancing the weapons or 'not grasping' any importance.

And I believe your Proficiency Bonus is also added to skills you are Proficient in. IE: Anyone can do any skill, but you won't get that sweet +3 Prof. Bonus added on unless you are Proficient in it.

And your Background gives you 2 Skill Proficiencies. Not weapon or armor proficiencies.

I don't think you even get skill points anymore. It's just your Ability Mod + Proficiency (If you are proficient)


So, again; many of your complaints boil down to either not understanding a new ruleset (which happens to everyone) or just liking AD&D more.


All you have said is correct, that is the way 5e handles proficiency.

Originally Posted by Jayce
Originally Posted by WeiShiLindon
Maybe it's time for a 6th edition then. This post isn't about DnD edition rules, but what makes a great game. There's a reason Baldur's Gate continues to be one of the all-time great games, and if that reason is that the 2nd and 3rd edition rules lent itself to a better pc game, we shouldn't be dismissing it simply because it's 22 years old.


Oh man. If you find 5th edition a little disappointing, you should thank your lucky stars BG-3 wasn't made with 4th! LOL!

We don't talk about that edition... .
Originally Posted by Lindon
OP, I don't know why you stole my name or why you chose to be an imposter, but I'll try to offer my perspective.

Larian seems to have adhered to the 5e rules too closely in many cases. It's as if they've never played a game of D&D in their life and they learned it all from the rule books, or maybe WOTC just forced them to. To top it off, 5th edition apparently dumbs down a lot of things, so if you're looking for in-depth character customizations it's not the greatest IMO. Whatever the case may be, Larian chose to make a video game based on D&D 5e rules and called Baldur's Gate 3, and they're the ones I paid, so I expect them to make good decisions and deliver an enjoyable product. Anything to do with WOTC, 5e rules being that way, or whatever is irrelevant to me. 5th edition rules could say that a jump is a bonus action and every dialogue requires a skill check and I'd say Larian should know to get rid of garbage like that that won't translate well to a PC game and won't be enjoyable.

I feel like this game came so close to bridging the gap between 2D Baldur's Gate and 3D gaming, similar to what NWN tried to do. However it's not quite there and I don't think it ever will be. Not due to a lack of technical skill, but rather due to a lack of understanding, bad design decisions, and too much re-use of Divinity assets & mechanics. It'll probably be a good game when it's finished, but it's not going to be for everyone.


Well, for starters, let me just say how cool it is to find a fellow Cradle fan. I hope you already read Wintersteel, b/c i'm ready to discuss lol. Secondly, as you can tell by the name, I am the real Lindon. You can tell by the Surname. You are just "Lindon." Could be Jai Ma Lindon for all we know. I feel the same way about many of the "functions" in BG3 and we shall just leave it at that. My post sparked some pretty heated responses, which I love to see, b/c it means people are passionate about the game and its future. That will always lead to good things.

I believe most people that responded focused heavily on the "5e vs 2e" portion of my post b/c that was really the only part of it that struck a cord with them. People don't really care about the open world vs linear module or how dialogue is handled, but question their dnd rules and the gloves will come off quickly! At least that's what I learned here lol
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