Larian Studios
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 15/10/20 05:07 PM
There has been a lot of speculation about what exactly is going on in various threads. Maybe it would be useful to gather the various ideas somewhere.

So what do we know about the Absolute?

The dead Mindflayer reveals a vision of a circle of Mindflayers. They seem to be allied with a group of drow, gnolls and goblins
"curved drow blades, crude goblin torches, gnoll teeth dripping blood
You see other mindflayers arranged in a seren circle. Absolute unity. Absolute power"

"You see dark tunnels lit by noxious pols of brine. The darkness spreads through the earth
the sky splits open and nautiloids pour out of a void that consumes the stars"
Is this a retelling of the war that freed the Gith from slavery or a vision of a possible event about to happen

Auntie Ethel reveals that the tadpole has been modified using netherese magic
Some kind of magic or technology is capable of triggering instant ceremorphosis
There was some hint that a larger fleet of nautiloid ships could attack at some point.
Mindflayers had lost the knowledge to build nautiloids some time ago. They either figured out the missing pieces on their own or someone helped them.

Minthara is an adept of house baenre from menzoberrazan.
The former strong connections of the house with Lolth suggest some Lolth involvement in what is going on. Or she was taken hostage and brainwashed by the absolute.

The visions suggest that the tadpole is angry at the absolute for putting it in stasis and using it
Someone said that one of the visions glitched for him and he could see raphael. Unconfirmed
the game logo shows a mindflayer with horns. Could Raphael be in a contract with some mindflayers to build an army?

Sharp contributed a new hypothesis:
Loulaum is both an Elder Brain and a Netherese mage, so there is enough overlap there to be able to consider him a possibility.






Additions by Azarhal

The Absolute is female as per a few of her disciples.

The Cult hangs out in a Selûne's temple and there is a note/book early in the zone that mention the Selûnites in the area went weird a few years ago (pre-Absolute as all the monsters attacking is recent according to the Grove Druids).

The Cult leaders are planning raids on certain sections of the map. Drows seems to have other plans than the goblins (they kidnapped the Duke, the goblins just wanted to pillage Waukeen's Rest).

The Cult do business with the Zhentarim (Bane followers) and "hired" a priest of Loviatar (the Maiden of Pain is a servant of Bane) without trying to convert them. But they really want to kill the druids and tieflings for some reasons.

Dark Justicars, a Shar order, came over the area a while back and disappeared into the Underdark. The leader created a shadow fog that encircle the Moonrise tower and kills anyone trying to go there. The Cult has a way to pass through that fog and the Moonrise tower is their HQ it seems.

The Selûne Temple Underdark section has a Sharran gem at the top of statue (thematically super weird).

Netherese magic could mean some Shadovars are involved. More Shar followers unless they switched allegiance.

The Maglubiyet goblin priest who is prisoner in the temple mention that the Absolute is gaining followers by offering them whatever they want. He doesn't think it's a real god.

The Githyanki who attacked the ship were actually after Shadowheart...more precisely, the artifact she is carrying. Her pod in the ship was different then the others as well. It could be linked together. So not a 1 vs 1 thing, but multiple group/gods acting against each others.

The Moonrise tower is mentioned in a document in the Harper's cache. Could be a (former) Harper base.



I am sure that there were more hints, feel free to add them.
Posted By: Dinvan Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 15/10/20 05:11 PM
Well we also know the Absolute is a single person, female I believe. I am assuming some sort of Drow matriarch(tend to be powerful wiz/sor/clerics) although that is speculation.
Perhaps a Drow matriarch got her hands on some forgotten netherese magic and is making a powerplay?
Posted By: Warlocke Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 15/10/20 05:14 PM
Originally Posted by Dinvan
Well we also know the Absolute is a single person, female I believe. I am assuming some sort of Drow matriarch(tend to be powerful wiz/sor/clerics) although that is speculation.
Perhaps a Drow matriarch got her hands on some forgotten netherese magic and is making a powerplay?


I’m quite sure that the Absolute is an entity for more powerful than a mundane Drow.
Posted By: Abits Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 15/10/20 05:18 PM
Originally Posted by Warlocke
Originally Posted by Dinvan
Well we also know the Absolute is a single person, female I believe. I am assuming some sort of Drow matriarch(tend to be powerful wiz/sor/clerics) although that is speculation.
Perhaps a Drow matriarch got her hands on some forgotten netherese magic and is making a powerplay?


I’m quite sure that the Absolute is an entity for more powerful than a mundane Drow.

Also why female? Is there any indication for it?

No, I think the Absolute has some ties to Bhaal if it's not Bhaal himself. I don't have a lot of evidence, but it seems likely to go there based on the dead three lore spread out around the game. And it would be great
Posted By: Godforsaken Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 15/10/20 05:19 PM
Originally Posted by Dinvan
Well we also know the Absolute is a single person, female I believe. I am assuming some sort of Drow matriarch(tend to be powerful wiz/sor/clerics) although that is speculation.
Perhaps a Drow matriarch got her hands on some forgotten netherese magic and is making a powerplay?


It's a BG game. She might as well be the last Bhaalspawn. It could be a way to tie it to the first two games.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 15/10/20 05:22 PM
What about the possibility that this whole Absolute entity is a mindflayer invention? A religion designed so that believers volunteer for hosting a tadpole.
I suspect that there is more to it than that though. Someone gave them the ability to build new nautiloids and the netherese magic is different to the psionics used by mindflayers. It could be an entity allied with mindflayers, in control of mindflayers or captured by mindflayers. So many options.
Posted By: Dinvan Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 15/10/20 05:23 PM
Originally Posted by Warlocke
Originally Posted by Dinvan
Well we also know the Absolute is a single person, female I believe. I am assuming some sort of Drow matriarch(tend to be powerful wiz/sor/clerics) although that is speculation.
Perhaps a Drow matriarch got her hands on some forgotten netherese magic and is making a powerplay?


I’m quite sure that the Absolute is an entity for more powerful than a mundane Drow.


I wouldnt call a Drow Matriarch a "mundane" drow. Then tend to be exceptionally powerful, usually having to fend off rivals (including blood relatives) their entire life.

Originally Posted by Abits
Originally Posted by Warlocke
Originally Posted by Dinvan
Well we also know the Absolute is a single person, female I believe. I am assuming some sort of Drow matriarch(tend to be powerful wiz/sor/clerics) although that is speculation.
Perhaps a Drow matriarch got her hands on some forgotten netherese magic and is making a powerplay?


I’m quite sure that the Absolute is an entity for more powerful than a mundane Drow.

Also why female? Is there any indication for it?

No, I think the Absolute has some ties to Bhaal if it's not Bhaal himself. I don't have a lot of evidence, but it seems likely to go there based on the dead three lore spread out around the game. And it would be great


There are several lines in the goblin camp and other places that refer to the absolute as a "she". Could be my faulty memory, I'll have to wait til I speak to Priestess Gut again in my current play through.
Posted By: Warlocke Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 15/10/20 05:23 PM
Originally Posted by Godforsaken
Originally Posted by Dinvan
Well we also know the Absolute is a single person, female I believe. I am assuming some sort of Drow matriarch(tend to be powerful wiz/sor/clerics) although that is speculation.
Perhaps a Drow matriarch got her hands on some forgotten netherese magic and is making a powerplay?


It's a BG game. She might as well be the last Bhaalspawn. It could be a way to tie it to the first two games.


All of the Bhaalspawn are dead. This was necessary for the rebirth of Bhaal, which happened in the table top adventure Murder in Baldur’s Gate.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 15/10/20 05:30 PM
The absolute is referred to as "she". The way it presents itself to its followers does not necessarily mean that it is a female or a single person.
Posted By: Dinvan Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 15/10/20 05:31 PM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
The absolute is referred to as "she". The way it presents itself to its followers does not necessarily mean that it is a female or a single person.



Excellent point I did not consider.
Posted By: Warlocke Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 15/10/20 05:31 PM
Mundane meaning “of this world.” I’m quite sure that whatever the absolute is, it is not just some character-inhabitant of Toril.

Anyway, my interpretation was that the being that approaches you in your dreams and tempts you with power is the Absolute. The is connected to tadpoled True Souls, and you only get those dreams of you use your tadpole powers.
Posted By: Dinvan Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 15/10/20 05:35 PM
Originally Posted by Warlocke
Mundane meaning “of this world.” I’m quite sure that whatever the absolute is, it is not just some character-inhabitant of Toril.

Anyway, my interpretation was that the being that approaches you in your dreams and tempts you with power is the Absolute. The is connected to tadpoled True Souls, and you only get those dreams of you use your tadpole powers.


You could quite well be correct, as Matron mothers to my knowledge seldom leave the service of lollth and live. Usually getting sacrificed to said angry spider god to win back favour for the family. They love a good sacrifice them drow lol.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 15/10/20 05:39 PM
In order for the mindflayers to build new ships they could have struck a new deal with the arcane. As the arcane are lawful neutral the absoulute cannot be one of them. The mindflayers themselves seem to be inadept at dealing with netherese magic.
I guess the answer to the question "Who can build spelljamming ships and work with netherese magic" would point in the right direction.

It pretty much cannot be a drow matron. Lolth would not be happy about someone starting a new drow religion.
Posted By: blindhamster Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 15/10/20 05:41 PM
Originally Posted by Dinvan
Originally Posted by Warlocke
Mundane meaning “of this world.” I’m quite sure that whatever the absolute is, it is not just some character-inhabitant of Toril.

Anyway, my interpretation was that the being that approaches you in your dreams and tempts you with power is the Absolute. The is connected to tadpoled True Souls, and you only get those dreams of you use your tadpole powers.


You could quite well be correct, as Matron mothers to my knowledge seldom leave the service of lollth and live. Usually getting sacrificed to said angry spider god to win back favour for the family. They love a good sacrifice them drow lol.

Need to read the latest salvatore novels lol.
Posted By: Dinvan Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 15/10/20 05:52 PM
Originally Posted by blindhamster


Need to read the latest salvatore novels lol.
[/quote]
Now that is a tease haha.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 15/10/20 05:53 PM
Adding more stuff to the OP.


The Absolute is female as per a few of her disciples.

The Cult hangs out in a Selûne's temple and there is a note/book early in the zone that mention the Selûnites in the area went weird a few years ago (pre-Absolute as all the monsters attacking is recent according to the Grove Druids).

The Cult leaders are planning raids on certain sections of the map. Drows seems to have other plans than the goblins (they kidnapped the Duke, the goblins just wanted to pillage Waukeen's Rest).

The Cult do business with the Zhentarim (Bane followers) and "hired" a priest of Loviatar (the Maiden of Pain is a servant of Bane) without trying to convert them. But they really want to kill the druids and tieflings for some reasons.

Dark Justicars, a Shar order, came over the area a while back and disappeared into the Underdark. The leader created a shadow fog that encircle the Moonrise tower and kills anyone trying to go there. The Cult has a way to pass through that fog and the Moonrise tower is their HQ it seems.

The Selûne Temple Underdark section has a Sharran gem at the top of statue (thematically super weird).

Netherese magic could mean some Shadovars are involved. More Shar followers unless they switched allegiance.

The Maglubiyet goblin priest who is prisoner in the temple mention that the Absolute is gaining followers by offering them whatever they want. He doesn't think it's a real god.

The Githyanki who attacked the ship were actually after Shadowheart...more precisely, the artifact she is carrying. Her pod in the ship was different then the others as well. It could be linked together. So not a 1 vs 1 thing, but multiple group/gods acting against each others.

The Moonrise tower is mentioned in a document in the Harper's cache. Could be a (former) Harper base.

Posted By: blazerules Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 15/10/20 05:57 PM
It has to be some sort of god.

Why? There are Clerics of the Absolute. You literally can't be a Cleric unless you well... follow a real god. Unless this has been changed somehow for BG3 specifically.

Perhaps Shar? I believe this goddess pretended to be someone else. There are other signs pointing to Shar as well.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 15/10/20 06:00 PM
Shar does have a strong connection to shadow magic and netheril, so that would point to shar. But why pose as a new goddess?
I have added the addititions contributed by azarhal to the first post. Thanks.
Posted By: blindhamster Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 15/10/20 06:01 PM
Maybe it's Karsus. And he somehow became a she when he took Mystrals place and was super briefly the god of magic before breaking the weave. He was netherese and super powerful and technically a god, albeit briefly. lol
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 15/10/20 06:08 PM
A netherese mage would be a possibility. I find it interesting that Gale has nothing to say on the netherese aspect of the tadpoles. He clearly has taken the study of their magic close to his heart.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 15/10/20 06:38 PM
Originally Posted by blazerules
It has to be some sort of god.

Why? There are Clerics of the Absolute. You literally can't be a Cleric unless you well... follow a real god. Unless this has been changed somehow for BG3 specifically.

Perhaps Shar? I believe this goddess pretended to be someone else. There are other signs pointing to Shar as well.


In the Forgotten Realms, there has been a few cases of none-god being worshipped and their followers receiving spells because that person's godly patron was granting them. Those none-god would all qualify as Chosen. So the Absolute doesn't need to be a deity herself, but it does mean a god is involved at some levels.

I can't decide if Shar is in it or against it. She could have had followers corrupted by the Absolute too.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 15/10/20 06:43 PM
The followers of the Absolute talk about it as the one true god, they most likely would try to win over followers of Shar. Something in this game reminds me of planescape and it's not just the Gith.
Posted By: Dinvan Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 15/10/20 06:48 PM
With the immergence of new gods, Ao tends to get involved. Can't become a new god with out Ao giving the Ok...oh...

So it trucks with the goblin priest saying they are not a real god. Of course, the dont stop people trying....
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 16/10/20 06:30 PM
Something new to add:

Minthara is an adept of house baenre from menzoberrazan.
The former strong connections of the house with Lolth suggest some Lolth involvement in what is going on. Or she was taken hostage and brainwashed by the absolute.
Posted By: Dark_Ansem Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 16/10/20 07:27 PM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
The followers of the Absolute talk about it as the one true god, they most likely would try to win over followers of Shar. Something in this game reminds me of planescape and it's not just the Gith.


the power of *belief*?
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 16/10/20 07:40 PM
Belief is far too strong a word, just a few parallels and things that expand beyond Faerun.
A few examples:

Gale hosting a piece of astral plane
The Mindflayers ability to construct new Nautiloids.
The very strange party composition reminiscent of the population of Sigil. The concentration of such strange characters in Faerun is far lower.


A few more notes:

The visions suggest that the tadpole is angry at the absolute for putting it in stasis and using it
Someone said that one of the visions glitched for him and he could see raphael. Unconfirmed
the game logo shows a mindflayer with horns. Could Raphael be in a contract with some mindflayers to build an army?
Posted By: Sharp Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 16/10/20 07:50 PM
Loulaum is both an Elder Brain and a Netherese mage, so there is enough overlap there to be able to consider him a possibility.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 16/10/20 07:54 PM
That is a very useful addition. He would have a lot of knowledge about how to construct flying things as well.

He is located in the Northdark, which also makes sense
He could also solve Gales problem. This is a meta point and not an in-world explanation
But the absolute does not match him being lawful neutral, does it?
Posted By: xMardeRx Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 16/10/20 07:57 PM
The vivid dream creature is the absolute, that is how it is converting and talking to its followers and future decibels.


I would not be surprised if you meet it in the absolutes tower.
Posted By: xMardeRx Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 16/10/20 08:00 PM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
Belief is far too strong a word, just a few parallels and things that expand beyond Faerun.
A few examples:

Gale hosting a piece of astral plane
The Mindflayers ability to construct new Nautiloids.
The very strange party composition reminiscent of the population of Sigil. The concentration of such strange characters in Faerun is far lower.


A few more notes:

The visions suggest that the tadpole is angry at the absolute for putting it in stasis and using it
Someone said that one of the visions glitched for him and he could see raphael. Unconfirmed
the game logo shows a mindflayer with horns. Could Raphael be in a contract with some mindflayers to build an army?


why dose it have to be a new one? What if it was frozen/lost in time and just reemerged and was instantly attacket?
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 16/10/20 08:58 PM
Originally Posted by xMardeRx
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
Belief is far too strong a word, just a few parallels and things that expand beyond Faerun.
A few examples:

Gale hosting a piece of astral plane
The Mindflayers ability to construct new Nautiloids.
The very strange party composition reminiscent of the population of Sigil. The concentration of such strange characters in Faerun is far lower.


A few more notes:

The visions suggest that the tadpole is angry at the absolute for putting it in stasis and using it
Someone said that one of the visions glitched for him and he could see raphael. Unconfirmed
the game logo shows a mindflayer with horns. Could Raphael be in a contract with some mindflayers to build an army?


why dose it have to be a new one? What if it was frozen/lost in time and just reemerged and was instantly attacket?


It really doesn't have to be a new one, but

the Githyanki were not after the ship. They were chasing after Shadowheart and the artifact in her inventory.

How she ended up on it is the real question. She got a magically warded pod, unlike the others on the ship. As if she was special cargo.


I just realized that nobody mention the Absolute's symbol is a bloody hand.
like a bloody version of Bane's black hand.


Posted By: xMardeRx Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 16/10/20 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by xMardeRx
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
Belief is far too strong a word, just a few parallels and things that expand beyond Faerun.
A few examples:

Gale hosting a piece of astral plane
The Mindflayers ability to construct new Nautiloids.
The very strange party composition reminiscent of the population of Sigil. The concentration of such strange characters in Faerun is far lower.


A few more notes:

The visions suggest that the tadpole is angry at the absolute for putting it in stasis and using it
Someone said that one of the visions glitched for him and he could see raphael. Unconfirmed
the game logo shows a mindflayer with horns. Could Raphael be in a contract with some mindflayers to build an army?


why dose it have to be a new one? What if it was frozen/lost in time and just reemerged and was instantly attacket?


It really doesn't have to be a new one, but

the Githyanki were not after the ship. They were chasing after Shadowheart and the artifact in her inventory.

How she ended up on it is the real question. She got a magically warded pod, unlike the others on the ship. As if she was special cargo.


I just realized that nobody mention the Absolute's symbol is a bloody hand.
like a bloody version of Bane's black hand.




also we dont know here she was pickt up. Avernus blood war? before that snacked up by a tentacle? shadow plane?!?
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 16/10/20 09:42 PM
It seems likely that Shadowheart was

abducted after a sharran mission suceeded in capturing a mighty githyanki artefact. Obviously she could not return it to her masters yet. Strange: She does not seem to be in a hurry to deliver her cargo.
The mindflayers obviously knew that she has something special on her.


As for Bane, he already holds command over the goblins god Maglubiyet, so

the goblin priest in a cage calling the absolute a false god and praising Maglubiyet makes no sense
As loviatar is serving bane the presence of one of her priests points in the opposite direction, he should provide more information
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 17/10/20 12:17 AM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
It seems likely that Shadowheart was

abducted after a sharran mission suceeded in capturing a mighty githyanki artefact. Obviously she could not return it to her masters yet. Strange: She does not seem to be in a hurry to deliver her cargo.
The mindflayers obviously knew that she has something special on her.


As for Bane, he already holds command over the goblins god Maglubiyet, so

the goblin priest in a cage calling the absolute a false god and praising Maglubiyet makes no sense
As loviatar is serving bane the presence of one of her priests points in the opposite direction, he should provide more information



Shadowheart wants to deal with the tadpole first, you can actually have a discussion with her plan after that is done if you want. She's going to Baldur's Gate has she has "people" there. It probably was her destination before getting snatched by the mindflayers.


They didn't kill the Maglubiyet priest, you think zealots of the "one true god Absolute" would have. He's also sure the Absolute isn't a true god, so he probably knows more about it. I think I'll kill him in another PT and see if he is more chatty dead.


Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 17/10/20 07:45 PM
It could be that they intend to do some sort of ritual sacrifice involving the priest of their former god as main attraction.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 17/10/20 09:28 PM
Found something else, inside the Grove in the antechamber where Khaga and the black druid hangs out.


There are interactable plaques with writing around pillars that explain the painting on the walls showing how the Grove was created. One of the section of the room has collapsed pillars hiding the wall behind, but the plaque is still there. That one talks about the druids fighting Shar followers and the Moonrise tower. The narrator link the Moonrise to Selûne (no check required or anything).

So the Cult of the Absolute HQ is inside another Selûne related building.

Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 17/10/20 09:36 PM
There is a mention that

some or all of the selune followers have been behaving strangely for a while. The druids fighting shar makes their tolerance towards Shadowheart even stranger. If they had bad history with Shar they should notice the Shar ornaments on Shadowhearts Armor.
It seems that the church of Selune was corrupted and abandoned its temples
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 17/10/20 10:37 PM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
There is a mention that

some or all of the selune followers have been behaving strangely for a while. The druids fighting shar makes their tolerance towards Shadowheart even stranger. If they had bad history with Shar they should notice the Shar ornaments on Shadowhearts Armor.
It seems that the church of Selune was corrupted and abandoned its temples


If you play a Cleric of Shar you don't identify Shadowheart's armor either. It's probably not supposed to scream Shar that much...beside, once I got to the grove she was decked in Githyanki's half-plate with a leather helm.
Posted By: Some_Twerp753 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 17/10/20 11:23 PM
Educated guess, considering the previous games and that temple of Jergal, but I suspect a god(ess?) is trying to return. We know a god can be killed but actually dying is harder (it's canon Bhaal's plan worked, and Myrkul is back too, both killed) so I wonder if this is a shot at making (hive?) mind controlled followers to bring one back from the dead.
Posted By: Abits Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 17/10/20 11:25 PM
any known dead mind flyer gods?
and also, I was reading about the gith and I thought that perhaps it has something to do with the lich queen's aspirations of godhood?
Posted By: xMardeRx Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 17/10/20 11:27 PM
Originally Posted by Some_Twerp753
Educated guess, considering the previous games and that temple of Jergal, but I suspect a god(ess?) is trying to return. We know a god can be killed but actually dying is harder (it's canon Bhaal's plan worked, and Myrkul is back too, both killed) so I wonder if this is a shot at making (hive?) mind controlled followers to bring one back from the dead.


wait a second he got devoured in my game in mask of the betrayer, he cant be back! LIES!
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 17/10/20 11:29 PM
When the dialogue was written the armor probably was not designed yet. Someone got the task of designing a shar priest and look at the top of the page: Complete with black circles and Shar tattoo. They could include a roll to recognize her religion.
Back to topic:
A god returning would be a possibility. But which one? And why does Selune to be absent?

Selune and Shar fusing? But why would they want to do that or need no followers, they already have lots.
Posted By: OneManArmy Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 17/10/20 11:30 PM
This is all not true. In fact, the Absolute is a big space hamster, and his name is Boo.

[Linked Image]


How else to explain Larian's silence about Minsc and Boo? They don't want to make a spoiler ...
Posted By: Abits Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 17/10/20 11:31 PM
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
This is all not true. In fact, the Absolute is a big space hamster, and his name is Boo.

[Linked Image]


How else to explain Larian's silence about Minsc and Boo? They don't want to make a spoiler ...

Boo doesn't strikes me as lawful evil though
Posted By: OneManArmy Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 17/10/20 11:32 PM
Originally Posted by Abits
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
This is all not true. In fact, the Absolute is a big space hamster, and his name is Boo.

[Linked Image]


How else to explain Larian's silence about Minsc and Boo? They don't want to make a spoiler ...

Boo doesn't strikes me as lawful evil though



oh, you won
Posted By: Abits Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 17/10/20 11:35 PM
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Originally Posted by Abits
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
This is all not true. In fact, the Absolute is a big space hamster, and his name is Boo.

[Linked Image]


How else to explain Larian's silence about Minsc and Boo? They don't want to make a spoiler ...

Boo doesn't strikes me as lawful evil though



oh, you won

I mean he is clearly directing all of minsc actions, but I don't know his motives... Neutral evil perhaps?
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 18/10/20 02:16 AM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
When the dialogue was written the armor probably was not designed yet. Someone got the task of designing a shar priest and look at the top of the page: Complete with black circles and Shar tattoo. They could include a roll to recognize her religion.
Back to topic:
A god returning would be a possibility. But which one? And why does Selune to be absent?

Selune and Shar fusing? But why would they want to do that or need no followers, they already have lots.


Selûne is back as a greater deity post Second Sundering (aka the start of 5e). She shouldn't be absent, her followers deserted the area (or were all killed/corrupted).

Currently in my 2nd PT and what seems to have happened is this:


There is a book at the Tollhouse that mention the following:
- The road between Baldur's Gate and Elturel attracted a lots of Selûnites.
- They built a temple (became the goblins camp), a village (must be the blighted village) and the Moonrise Towers (toll were paid there, so it must be towers between a road, mountain pass or bridge)
- At some point the Selûnites started to act strange, not timeline for this could be after the Dark Justicars showed up or before it.
- From the blighted village doctor's journal (in his secret lab) + skeleton with helmet that makes Shadowheart glow, we learn that Dark Justicars came over the village and raided it.
- If you save Haslin, we learn that the Dark Justicars went to the Underdark after that, probably following the Selûnites from the temple. With the leader creating a cursed shadow fog around the Moonrise Towers after they failed to take the place?. The druids of the Groves helped fight off the Justicars.
- Decades later (couldn't find a year anywhere), the Absolute took residences at the Moonrise Towers and started converting people (aka put tadpole in them).

It's hard to say if the Absolute has a link with the Selûnites or Sharrans, or if someone else just came over after the places were cleaned up by the Justicars...but we know from Haslin that the Justicars disappear one day, a whole army.


Posted By: DumbleDorf Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 18/10/20 03:09 AM
I think the Absolute is a trick of the parasites, as Lae'zal suggests and based on Priestess Gut's dialogue about not even knowing she has a parasite.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 18/10/20 03:27 AM
Maybe what separates

our characters from the true souls is a kind of finishing ceremony including a strong connection to the absolute and amnesia. As the survivors could tell the other true souls about the tadpoles the absolute wants them dead.
If Priestess Gut really does not know that she has one of those things and told the truth then ...goblins are not the brightest. Someone like Minthara with all the drow paranoia should be more likely to believe it.
Could it be that the strange followers of Selune were locked in the Moonrise towers by the shadow curse the sharrans made?
Posted By: Iszaryn Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 18/10/20 06:02 AM

In the Goblin Camp its said that the Absolute is a "she". You also run into 2 humans Bryn and her brother I believe and both of them mention that the Absolute is a "she" as well.
Posted By: Ulla G Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 18/10/20 07:20 AM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog

A few more notes:
The visions suggest that the tadpole is angry at the absolute for putting it in stasis and using it
Someone said that one of the visions glitched for him and he could see raphael. Unconfirmed
the game logo shows a mindflayer with horns. Could Raphael be in a contract with some mindflayers to build an army?


Now that you mention it, there is a strange thing I saw during one of the first scenes, even posted about it, and yes, looking at it could very well be Raphael's wing tip, now if it's just a bug or he is responsible for the dreams in some way, cannot say


[Linked Image]

Posted By: DumbleDorf Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 18/10/20 07:23 AM
Originally Posted by Iszaryn

In the Goblin Camp its said that the Absolute is a "she". You also run into 2 humans Bryn and her brother I believe and both of them mention that the Absolute is a "she" as well.


You learn its a she much earlier than that, Sazza tells you if you stop her execution in the Druid Grove.

Then if you have Lae'zel in the party, she very quickly realizes the Absolute is a trick of the tadpoles.
Posted By: Veylandemar Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 18/10/20 08:28 AM
Originally Posted by Abits
any known dead mind flyer gods?
and also, I was reading about the gith and I thought that perhaps it has something to do with the lich queen's aspirations of godhood?


Per 2nd Edition, The Illithid had two major gods, Illsensine and Maanzecorian. Illsensine still exists and maintains a realm in the Concordant Domains of the Outlands, in whatsoever state that happens to be in the current edition.

Maanzecorian, however, was among the Gods and god-like beings killed in the Planescape adventure module 'Dead Gods', slain by Tenebrous (Who was a vestige of Orcus, clinging to existance after Kiaransalee wiped memory of him from the multiverse to kill him) using The Last Word. Maanzecorian's divine portfolio encompassed secrets, knowledge and philosophy. Followers of Maanzecorian's teachings apparently have started surfacing, which is unusual given their deity's death having occurred over a century prior.



Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 18/10/20 01:00 PM
Originally Posted by DumbleDorf
I think the Absolute is a trick of the parasites, as Lae'zal suggests and based on Priestess Gut's dialogue about not even knowing she has a parasite.


The tadpoles are under control by magic, there are a few NPCs in the EA that can tell you that. They aren't the ones controlling things.

The amulet of the Absolute is the biggest redflag about who is in control of the cult or whom they are trying to piss off, as I don't think gods like to have their (un)holy symbols usurped.
Posted By: xMardeRx Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 18/10/20 01:27 PM
Originally Posted by Ulla G
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog

A few more notes:
The visions suggest that the tadpole is angry at the absolute for putting it in stasis and using it
Someone said that one of the visions glitched for him and he could see raphael. Unconfirmed
the game logo shows a mindflayer with horns. Could Raphael be in a contract with some mindflayers to build an army?


Now that you mention it, there is a strange thing I saw during one of the first scenes, even posted about it, and yes, looking at it could very well be Raphael's wing tip, now if it's just a bug or he is responsible for the dreams in some way, cannot say


[Linked Image]



what if that are sipder fangs and the absolute is loth? Spoiders lure the prey in too, seduction, promises of power. Lots of drow, drugary and under world stuff. Spiders in the pit. Maybe its revenge for selune and shar moving there base of operations and temples in the under dark. Loth got much more powerful after the second sundering. Maybe she did go full more crazy and now strikes out against the others.
Posted By: Mozhad Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 18/10/20 03:46 PM
Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by DumbleDorf
I think the Absolute is a trick of the parasites, as Lae'zal suggests and based on Priestess Gut's dialogue about not even knowing she has a parasite.


The tadpoles are under control by magic, there are a few NPCs in the EA that can tell you that. They aren't the ones controlling things.

The amulet of the Absolute is the biggest redflag about who is in control of the cult or whom they are trying to piss off, as I don't think gods like to have their (un)holy symbols usurped.


Agreed, the illithid option changes to this when you use the dialogue enough times.



I think the absolute is actually a minor god/person, trying to become greater. She's gaining a following, she has clerics to empower etc, plus there is netherese magic involved with our tadpoles, they've been tampered with. The friendly Illithid in the underdark tells you if the magic goes away you would turn into a mind flayer instantly without the seven day process. So the dream lady/guy is not the tadpole, the tadpole actually doesn't like the entity. I don't think we are dealing with a mind flayer plot here. I suspect part of the plot is stopping her/ taking over the faith yourself/joining the absolute or the bad ending where you just become a plain old mindflayer.
Posted By: DumbleDorf Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 18/10/20 04:13 PM
Originally Posted by xMardeRx
Originally Posted by Ulla G
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog

A few more notes:
The visions suggest that the tadpole is angry at the absolute for putting it in stasis and using it
Someone said that one of the visions glitched for him and he could see raphael. Unconfirmed
the game logo shows a mindflayer with horns. Could Raphael be in a contract with some mindflayers to build an army?


Now that you mention it, there is a strange thing I saw during one of the first scenes, even posted about it, and yes, looking at it could very well be Raphael's wing tip, now if it's just a bug or he is responsible for the dreams in some way, cannot say


[Linked Image]



what if that are sipder fangs and the absolute is loth? Spoiders lure the prey in too, seduction, promises of power. Lots of drow, drugary and under world stuff. Spiders in the pit. Maybe its revenge for selune and shar moving there base of operations and temples in the under dark. Loth got much more powerful after the second sundering. Maybe she did go full more crazy and now strikes out against the others.


Well yes, I mean that the people pulling the tadpole's strings are the 'absolute'. It would still seem to be illithid in nature, or at least borrowing heavily from Illithid magic. And with that the absolute could be entirely fictional and made up by whoever is pulling the strings.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 18/10/20 04:20 PM
So the game tells you that you are a high ranking servant of the absolute (True Soul after using the illithid options) yet the other followers of the absolute (goblins) still want to kill you no matter what? That does not make sense.
Maanzecorian, a new option. The game provides many clues but still we are left with lots of possibilities.

The mindflayer vision clearly shows a group of Mindflayers being or being in alliance with the absolute. Maybe a small group trading tadpoles for nautiloid helms

I have noticed the amulet, it could be a case of "that looks cool" or imply an actual connection

The thing in the dream is pretty clearly raphaels wing.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 18/10/20 04:21 PM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
So the game tells you that you are a high ranking servant of the absolute (True Soul after using the illithid options) yet the other followers of the absolute (goblins) still want to kill you no matter what? That does not make sense.
Maanzecorian, a new option. The game provides many clues but still we are left with lots of possibilities.

The mindflayer vision clearly shows a group of Mindflayers being or being in alliance with the absolute. Maybe a small group trading tadpoles for nautiloid helms

I have noticed the amulet, it could be a case of "that looks cool" or imply an actual connection

The thing in the dream is pretty clearly a cambion wing. Someon saw raphael completly

Posted By: DumbleDorf Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 18/10/20 04:26 PM
Im pretty sure that 'true soul' is just anyone with a parasite, the encounter with Edowin strongly confirms as such.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 18/10/20 04:39 PM
The two "apprentices" with him can be found in the goblin camp later under some circumstances. He worked with the goblins, too.
Posted By: Azarielle Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 18/10/20 06:30 PM
If you "interview" one of the corpses around the nautiloid (the one on the beach" it says there was a beautiful female elf and all other survivors followed her West.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 18/10/20 06:56 PM
Where exactly are we on the map? I think Halsin said something about the direction of the moonrise towers but I don't remember
Thanks for the addition, the elf thing is interesting.
Posted By: TheAscendent Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 18/10/20 07:16 PM
Still in between Baldur's Gate and Elturel. It's mentioned here.
Crescentcoat
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 18/10/20 09:22 PM
If the elf took the other survivors to the west and we are supposed to find them the distance to Baldurs Gate seems to grow as the group heads to the west of Elturel.

I think I have found a strong hint outside of the game. It seems that Larian stated somewhere that BIG SPOILER

We find ourselves on the centre stage of a complot hatched by none other than the Dead Three


That would mean that the absolute is indeed a fake and I have seen more interesting ideas here than what appears to be the one Larian chose.
Posted By: DumbleDorf Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 18/10/20 09:42 PM
The dead three are bhaal, myrkul and someone else, jargol I think?
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 18/10/20 10:03 PM
Bane
But Magluybiet serves bane so the goblins would follow them without inventing a new god and imprisoning the priest of the old one
Posted By: xMardeRx Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 18/10/20 10:51 PM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
Bane
But Magluybiet serves bane so the goblins would follow them without inventing a new god and imprisoning the priest of the old one


Bane?
Was he a big guy?

But the zentalim would not, they are enemys of bane, well his sign is a black hand, the absolute ones is a white hand......

great what is the next step in his master plan? getting a mage named Pavel and get to Baldus Gate and plant a over sized Arcane Diffusion Bomb?
Is this why the gnomes are mined to death to gather resources?
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 18/10/20 11:03 PM
He seems to be quite strong at the time BG3 takes place. There are lots of cultists of Bane, Myrkul and Bhaal in Baldurs Gate. I am not sure that they are behind the absolute though.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 18/10/20 11:16 PM
I went to check the corpses on the beach.

Two of them talk about the beautiful elf. One says going West and the other North, but they are talking in function of the beach. My guess is that she went to arcane rune waypoint.

Posted By: dza101 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/10/20 12:41 AM
Originally Posted by Ulla G
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog

A few more notes:
The visions suggest that the tadpole is angry at the absolute for putting it in stasis and using it
Someone said that one of the visions glitched for him and he could see raphael. Unconfirmed
the game logo shows a mindflayer with horns. Could Raphael be in a contract with some mindflayers to build an army?


Now that you mention it, there is a strange thing I saw during one of the first scenes, even posted about it, and yes, looking at it could very well be Raphael's wing tip, now if it's just a bug or he is responsible for the dreams in some way, cannot say


[Linked Image]



when mindflayers convert people it deprives the devils of potential souls, which is their currency. I think they would absolutely be against any mindflayer attempt to tadpole everyone.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/10/20 12:48 AM
Harmless modified Tadpoles to facilitate more deals "hello there, I am Raphael and I can remove that thing for a small price" He could not benefit from people actually turning but from lots of scared souls
Posted By: Ulla G Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/10/20 01:09 AM
Question, can the illithid tadpoles transfer a dead mind-flayer's "self" over? I started another play, and the cinematic shows lots of bodies already inside the nautiloid, which the main Illithid pays attention to (Including one propped up against Lae'Zel's pod). Later when the dead Illithid is interrogated about the absolute, the description is a group of Mind Flayers, I wondered if there was a connection, it could explain why the Absolute is after the fugitives from the Nautiloid, the Illithid there could be opposition to the Absolute, also why Raphael is so interested and showing up here and there.

There seems to be a small "altar" for Lolth in the underdark, next to the lost gnome, normal candles, Lolth's candles, floor has a circular pattern. Might be nothing.


Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/10/20 01:22 AM
They hatch from eggs. These are modified ones but the scenario seems unlikely. Mindflayer brains can become part of the elder brain, tadpoles are for procreation.
Posted By: dza101 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/10/20 01:35 AM
Originally Posted by Ulla G
Question, can the illithid tadpoles transfer a dead mind-flayer's "self" over? I started another play, and the cinematic shows lots of bodies already inside the nautiloid, which the main Illithid pays attention to (Including one propped up against Lae'Zel's pod). Later when the dead Illithid is interrogated about the absolute, the description is a group of Mind Flayers, I wondered if there was a connection, it could explain why the Absolute is after the fugitives from the Nautiloid, the Illithid there could be opposition to the Absolute, also why Raphael is so interested and showing up here and there.

There seems to be a small "altar" for Lolth in the underdark, next to the lost gnome, normal candles, Lolth's candles, floor has a circular pattern. Might be nothing.





I think you're on to something there, about the illithid being a dissident.

In this interview with one of the dnd writers on mindflayers after the bg3 trailer was introduced:

Quote
GamesBeat: Why are the mind flayers of Ryxyg more peaceful than others? Why don’t they actively seek out slaves, as others do?

Perkins: You’ll have to ask the folks at Larian. Perhaps the mind flayers have eaten a few too many halfling brains, or maybe the mind flayers of Ryxyg realized that keeping slaves is a lot of work and might draw unwanted attention to themselves.


https://venturebeat.com/2019/07/30/...k-horrible-secrets-of-the-mind-flayer/2/

Could this mindflayer be part of this Ryxyg group? And why did he seem to desperate to infect the captured people with tadpoles while his ship was being chased by gith and dragons and the rest of the crew was dead.
Posted By: Osiris0716 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/10/20 01:37 AM
My take on who the "Absolute" is: It's Tiamat.

There is a scrawled drawing in blood in several places (wall by Wakeem's Rest, and several shields found in Shattered Sanctuary) showing five stalks firing approximately straight up around a central thing that looks like an eyeball. To me, that has a LOT of reminders of the old "Dragonlance" story line, where Tiamat was renamed and took the form of a woman with five strands of hair in the form of each one of the chromatic dragons. My thinking is that, for whatever reason, the mind flayers attacked Tiamat's domain in hell and are having their asses handed to them. So the mind flayers are attacking human settlements as a kind of forced recruitment in order to staunch their military losses.

My theory of events explains Raphael coming into your camp with his "offer" (I literally said to myself "that's a devil" almost the moment it showed up); "he" was dispatched by Tiamat with the offer to basically not recharge enemy forces while simultaneously grabbing a few servants of her own. It explains the woman that came to "save" me from Priestess Gut from out of nowhere as well. That could have been Tiamat, or it could have been another devil/demon-kind under Tiamat's service. It also explains why the Mind flayer ship could so easily transport into Hell to begin with: the mind flayers were trying to control the front line and force that front line to be in Tiamat's domain. Not smart, but if you can show up on your enemy's doorstep at will, it's hard for your enemy to advance their forces onto your domain.

Still haven't figured out why the Githyanki are involved other than they want to be the big, psionic bullies on the block and the mind flayers get in the way of that. In the original, opening cinematic, I thought the dragons being ridden were bronze, which made me ask why the Githyanki are on Bronze dragons (mind control, I concluded), but I also can easily believe that those were very tiny red dragons, as well. Or that is a very large ship.

More practically, Tiamat is a very recognizable figure in D&D, to the point where she appears in multiple locations/mythos in the game, and, frankly, I'm a little surprised (especially after the old Dragonlance campaign from way back there) that Tiamat isn't considered an actual deity at this point. I think she made an appearance in Neverwinter Nights as well (again, old game), but I don't remember that one for absolute certain (no pun intended).

It could be that the Absolute is also some kind of Githyanki deity, but I don't have as much evidence for that one.

Anyway, that's my two cents: The mind flayers are at war with Tiamat.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/10/20 01:50 AM
Originally Posted by Osiris0716
My take on who the "Absolute" is: It's Tiamat.

It explains the woman that came to "save" me from Priestess Gut from out of nowhere as well.


I have not seen that scene. Care to describe it?

The Githyanki don't tend to be very religious. A goddess that puts tadpoles in them is most certainly not appealing to them.
Posted By: dza101 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/10/20 01:55 AM
They're red dragons. Apparently Tiamat has a deal with the Gith to supply them with red dragons to ride.
Posted By: dza101 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/10/20 01:57 AM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
Originally Posted by Osiris0716
My take on who the "Absolute" is: It's Tiamat.

It explains the woman that came to "save" me from Priestess Gut from out of nowhere as well.


I have not seen that scene. Care to describe it?



If you ask the priestess to help you with the tadpole, she puts you in prison while you await your execution. An attractive looking woman (elf?) comes in and slits her throat and kills everyone else there. She doesn't say who she's working for though.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/10/20 02:02 AM
This could be the elf the dead at the coast were mentioning
Did you get a journal entry that you are now an enemy of the absolute after that happened? Or some mention of the dead three?
Posted By: dza101 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/10/20 02:06 AM
If that's the case, she must not be working for the absolute, as the Absolute followers were trying to kill the survivors of the ship.

I guess there's two groups of tadpole-infected:

1) The absolute followers
2) the people on the mindflayer ship

I wonder where the elf woman took the other survivors? It can't be Moonrise Towers, as that's where the rest of the Absolute people are holed up.
Posted By: dza101 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/10/20 02:11 AM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
Harmless modified Tadpoles to facilitate more deals "hello there, I am Raphael and I can remove that thing for a small price" He could not benefit from people actually turning but from lots of scared souls



That's a good point. I'm guessing there are a lot of different factions here.

It seems that the mindflayers of Ryxyg are involved in the game from the interview I linked above. And they're actually sorta good guys, preventing a fire giant invasion of the surface and not activating taking slaves. They might actually be the ones from the ship?

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Ryxyg
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/10/20 02:19 AM
If they are not in alliance of the absolute they clearly know about its intentions, as the one questioned by ragzlin was on the ship
Posted By: dza101 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/10/20 02:25 AM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
If they are not in alliance of the absolute they clearly know about its intentions, as the one questioned by ragzlin was on the ship



i don't remember that convo .. could you say what happened when he was interrogated?
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/10/20 02:29 AM
When asked about the absolute he revealed a vision of curved drow blades, gnolls, goblins with torches and mindflayers standing in a circle. Absolute unity, Absolute power.
He also showed a vision of darkness spreading in what was likely the underdark and a fleet of nautiloids darkening the sky
Posted By: dza101 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/10/20 03:29 AM
So I never went through the tadpole removal with the hag but here's a video showing gameplay where it does (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOU2Rj2Ickc)

Apparently the hag says she won't touch it because it's been tampered with and has netherese shadow magic on it. The shadovar were netherese Shar worshippers who were recently defeated a few years before the game takes place but there are likely survivors.

Halsin also says that the area around Moonrise Towers is blighted with the shadow plague or something like that.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/10/20 03:49 AM
The Auntie Ethel dialogue is mentioned in my first post on page one with most of the other known hints.
Ioulaum is an undead elder brain from netheril, we had a theory about him being the absolute but he is not evil
Shar plays some role in this, just as the fallen followers of Selune. I do not know how Myrkur fits in, his symbol is on the absolute amulet
Posted By: dza101 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/10/20 04:11 AM
isn't the symbol on the amulet a combination of bane, bhaal, and myrkhul's symbol? this was also the symbol on the grafitti on the wall in the cinematic of the Flaming Fist dude turning into a mind flyer.

And all those three gods are mortal beings at the moment walking around Faerun.
Posted By: Spideyknight Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/10/20 04:51 AM
Originally Posted by dza101
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
Originally Posted by Osiris0716
My take on who the "Absolute" is: It's Tiamat.

It explains the woman that came to "save" me from Priestess Gut from out of nowhere as well.


I have not seen that scene. Care to describe it?



If you ask the priestess to help you with the tadpole, she puts you in prison while you await your execution. An attractive looking woman (elf?) comes in and slits her throat and kills everyone else there. She doesn't say who she's working for though.


So I just did this with Gale, since my character is an elf and she attacks when the sleep potion doesn't work. Heh. Anyway, if you let Gale get put to sleep, then don't break out of the chains, Corilla Heartflame comes to save you. See is a halfling(I think. She is quite a bit shorter than Gale) that is able to slit the priestess's throat and also incinerate a 76 hp Ogre without a mark. Even Gale remarks on this feat and wonders who she serves?
Posted By: Ulla G Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/10/20 06:43 AM
So, during another play got to see the scene where the tadpole calls to you, and yes, it is Raphael standing next to you, managed to smash the print button fast enough. That being said it came right after meeting him, so I think it's just a glitch showing the NPC that is probably just invisible in your camp for game purposes, not relating him to the dreams themselves. Haven't tested, but I believe sleeping in the "uppermost" cot (the one in the direction of Astarion's later on) you can also get a view of it after the encounter. That confirms the claim in OP's list, but might not be adding anything in the end.


[Linked Image]
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/10/20 06:41 PM
A halfling? It gets more confusing. I thought it might have been the elf that led some survivors away from the crashsite
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/10/20 11:18 PM
So I had a save right before talking to Priestess Gut and I did it with Gale.

Korrilla Heartflame works
for Raphael,
she straight up told me when I asked.

She is also not an elf, she's a dwarf going by that body type. Some other interesting thing about that path

- Priestess Gut says the Absolute wants to know about the tadpole. Does it means even the Mindflayers do not know their tadpoles are tempered with?
- Korrilla mention that Raphael is interested in our skins, strange choice of word in context
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/10/20 11:38 PM
Maybe Raphael was telling the actual truth when he said that he could become a friend. Mindflayers are of no worth to him. If we help him to stop them that means more potential recruits for him to make deals with.
Priestess Gut is not exactly the brightest light on the absolutes chandelier.
Out of game spoiler:

Some mindflayers want to create a group of super soldiers. True Souls. They seem to cooperate with the entity behind all of this
Posted By: Kraydenvar Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/10/20 11:48 PM
The fact that one of the loading screen texts is referring to the mortals who became gods by a bargain with Jergel does lend to the theory that the absolute may be trying similar.
Posted By: dza101 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 20/10/20 12:26 AM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
When asked about the absolute he revealed a vision of curved drow blades, gnolls, goblins with torches and mindflayers standing in a circle. Absolute unity, Absolute power.
He also showed a vision of darkness spreading in what was likely the underdark and a fleet of nautiloids darkening the sky


1. So the true souls are unaware that they have tadpoles, yet this vision suggests that mindlayers are working together than the other Absolute followers. Why are people on the ship aware that they were infected with tadpoles, but the true souls unaware?

2 .Are the true soul tadpoles also modified by Netherese magic, or is it only the tadpoles of the ship survivors?

3, There are "absolute" items that will only work if you have been branded with the mark of the absolute. what's the relationship between this and the tadpole?
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 20/10/20 12:46 AM
I guess that there are some plot holes.
You are right, it is strange. The goblins know that they are allied with mindflayers and want to kill anyone who attacks a mindflayer. They don't know that they have tadpoles. Gut talks about shadows. She knows that there is something in her head but she does not realize what it is. I guess some kind of spell or suggestion prevents them from understanding that they have parasites. I think that the cras stopped the mindflayers and they could not finish the process. So the people on the ship were likely supposed to become true souls but the process was interrupted. Anonther possibility would be some kind of mindflayer civil war. The one side creating true-souls and the other one creating tadpoles that can initiate immediate conversion into mindflayers.

2: They must be or the True-Souls would transform into mindflayers. The process should be complete after a week and with all the long rests the game takes longer yet none of them transform.

3: It would appear that there is no relationship. These items only work on those branded, I think there is no indication that the tadpole mediates their power. We will see once we get a non-tadpole companion.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 20/10/20 12:48 AM
Originally Posted by Kraydenvar
The fact that one of the loading screen texts is referring to the mortals who became gods by a bargain with Jergel does lend to the theory that the absolute may be trying similar.

I guess it refers to the dead three. Myrkul, Bhaal and Bane. Jergal got tired of being a god and handed over his responsibilities to them. They later became mortal again (see the story of BG1 and BG2) and were murdered. They rose to godhood again later, more or less.
Posted By: Osiris0716 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 20/10/20 12:50 AM
Originally Posted by dza101
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
If they are not in alliance of the absolute they clearly know about its intentions, as the one questioned by ragzlin was on the ship



i don't remember that convo .. could you say what happened when he was interrogated?


It was part of the Goblin Quest. I just finished this, and Ragzlin was the final boss (for me). He casts Speak With Dead on the mind flayer who's head you supposedly stomped in when you encountered it at the wreckage and it tried to make you "fall in love" with it. Personally, I have no clue how that could be the exact same mind flayer, since it's implied I stomped in it's head. It makes sense if I stomped in it's neck, but the one in the image didn't resemble having it's neck crushed either.

You use the mind meld to control Ragzlin for a bit to direct conversation, and the mind flayer replies with images of war. I allowed Ragzlin to control the final question. How he got "it's you" from the image that the mind flayer presented is still a mystery to me, but so be it.
Posted By: dza101 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 20/10/20 12:53 AM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
Originally Posted by Kraydenvar
The fact that one of the loading screen texts is referring to the mortals who became gods by a bargain with Jergel does lend to the theory that the absolute may be trying similar.

I guess it refers to the dead three. Myrkul, Bhaal and Bane. Jergal got tired of being a god and handed over his responsibilities to them. They later became mortal again (see the story of BG1 and BG2) and were murdered. They rose to godhood again later, more or less.



i suspect the skeleton at the ruins might actually be Jergal himself.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 20/10/20 12:56 AM
According to the description on the plate the hooded skeleton is jergal. If he wants his power back the three gods would have to loose it.
Posted By: Osiris0716 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 20/10/20 12:56 AM
Originally Posted by dza101
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
When asked about the absolute he revealed a vision of curved drow blades, gnolls, goblins with torches and mindflayers standing in a circle. Absolute unity, Absolute power.
He also showed a vision of darkness spreading in what was likely the underdark and a fleet of nautiloids darkening the sky


3, There are "absolute" items that will only work if you have been branded with the mark of the absolute. what's the relationship between this and the tadpole?


I know that there are "Absolute only" weapons. One of them is an "Uncommon" weapon that I gave to Shadowheart. Everytime she used it, she got "Bane" inflicted on her. I can't use it, because I'm a wizard. I do know that weapon will also cause fear on hit, but not sure what the chance is, or what the saving throw is.
Posted By: Spideyknight Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 20/10/20 01:27 AM
Originally Posted by azarhal
So I had a save right before talking to Priestess Gut and I did it with Gale.

Korrilla Heartflame works
for Raphael,
she straight up told me when I asked.

She is also not an elf, she's a dwarf going by that body type. Some other interesting thing about that path

- Priestess Gut says the Absolute wants to know about the tadpole. Does it means even the Mindflayers do not know their tadpoles are tempered with?
- Korrilla mention that Raphael is interested in our skins, strange choice of word in context


Oh very interesting. She wouldn't answer that question from my Gale because I hadn't met Raphael yet. Just said someone was looking out for our skins. I thought she looked more like a halfling, but could definitely be wrong.
Posted By: Osiris0716 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 20/10/20 01:36 AM
Originally Posted by Spideyknight

Oh very interesting. She wouldn't answer that question from my Gale because I hadn't met Raphael yet. Just said someone was looking out for our skins. I thought she looked more like a halfling, but could definitely be wrong.


She said that to me as well, but I had encountered Raphael in camp.

She looked like a drawf or halfling to me as well, A bit on the short and curvy side, which tends to be the way drawven and halfling women are drawn.
Posted By: dza101 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 20/10/20 01:48 AM
Originally Posted by Osiris0716
Originally Posted by dza101
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
When asked about the absolute he revealed a vision of curved drow blades, gnolls, goblins with torches and mindflayers standing in a circle. Absolute unity, Absolute power.
He also showed a vision of darkness spreading in what was likely the underdark and a fleet of nautiloids darkening the sky


3, There are "absolute" items that will only work if you have been branded with the mark of the absolute. what's the relationship between this and the tadpole?


I know that there are "Absolute only" weapons. One of them is an "Uncommon" weapon that I gave to Shadowheart. Everytime she used it, she got "Bane" inflicted on her. I can't use it, because I'm a wizard. I do know that weapon will also cause fear on hit, but not sure what the chance is, or what the saving throw is.


you need to get branded by priestess gut for those items to work properly
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 20/10/20 02:02 AM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
I guess that there are some plot holes.
You are right, it is strange. The goblins know that they are allied with mindflayers and want to kill anyone who attacks a mindflayer. They don't know that they have tadpoles. Gut talks about shadows. She knows that there is something in her head but she does not realize what it is. I guess some kind of spell or suggestion prevents them from understanding that they have parasites. I think that the cras stopped the mindflayers and they could not finish the process. So the people on the ship were likely supposed to become true souls but the process was interrupted. Anonther possibility would be some kind of mindflayer civil war. The one side creating true-souls and the other one creating tadpoles that can initiate immediate conversion into mindflayers.

2: They must be or the True-Souls would transform into mindflayers. The process should be complete after a week and with all the long rests the game takes longer yet none of them transform.

3: It would appear that there is no relationship. These items only work on those branded, I think there is no indication that the tadpole mediates their power. We will see once we get a non-tadpole companion.


I don't think they know they are allied to the mindflayers exactly. The Absolute asked them to find what happened to the ship, the survivors and the weapon. Asking the "owners" of the ship would help with that.

2. There are answers in the Underdark about the lack of transformation
from a Mindflayer. The tadpole is in statis via magic, the Netherese shadow magic. It's also different from normal tadpoles beyond that as the mindflayer wonder if his species is evolving in banter with another NPC.


3. There are non-tadpoled goblins who can use the weapon, you just need a brand which act as some magical key to use them properly.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 20/10/20 02:07 AM
If they don't know that they are allied with the mindflayers why would they attack you once the mindflayer reveals that you are its killer
Posted By: Mister Monster Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 20/10/20 03:45 AM
Not sure if anyone mentioned, but the scrying eye around the goblin camp is from some drow in moonrise towers, and the dead drow in the druid grove recieved their tadpole at an 'initiation' in moonrise....
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 20/10/20 03:50 AM
Hah, I guessed it. An initiation ceremony, probably including amnesia about the tadpole.
Where did you get these bits of information? Talk with the drow in the grove?
Posted By: Mister Monster Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 20/10/20 04:40 AM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
Hah, I guessed it. An initiation ceremony, probably including amnesia about the tadpole.
Where did you get these bits of information? Talk with the drow in the grove?


Yep, a very specific line of questioning using speak with dead:

'Where did you get your Tadpole? will unlock it.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 20/10/20 04:43 AM
An interesting quest from act 2 of the game

Spoiler, this is not part of EA

In the duergar camp a few survivors are trapped with a drow true soul called nere behind rubble.
Nere is leading some duergar
Once the rubble has been removed nere tries to convince or force
the player character to kill the gnomes. If the player did not side with the druids/tieflings against the goblins the player seems to have the option to voluntarily kill the gnome survivors including the one from act 1.
He will then order the players to find a path through the underdark toward moonrise towers.
This could also be the end of act 1 instead of the beginning of act 2 in the final game.
Posted By: dza101 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 20/10/20 11:44 AM
Originally Posted by blazerules
It has to be some sort of god.

Why? There are Clerics of the Absolute. You literally can't be a Cleric unless you well... follow a real god. Unless this has been changed somehow for BG3 specifically.

Perhaps Shar? I believe this goddess pretended to be someone else. There are other signs pointing to Shar as well.




In this talk with one of the writers at WOTC last year, he talks about how Bhaal, Myrkhul, and Bane are now mortal beings who are killable because they refused to stop meddling in Faerun --- (@ 20 min in) https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/dratalk_arnieniekamp
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 20/10/20 12:09 PM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
If they don't know that they are allied with the mindflayers why would they attack you once the mindflayer reveals that you are its killer


Because the Absolute wants the killers dead. Ragzin clearly doesn't see the mindflayer as an ally, he calls it a bunch of names like squiddie.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 20/10/20 02:52 PM
So I've been thinking about this.

I think the Netherese Shadow Magic and the tadpole being in stasis are unrelated.

1. The stasis is built-in because the Mindflayers don't want people to start to turn right away, they want them to turn on command (we can see that on the ship) once they start their invasion (basically the announcement cinematic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcP0WdH7rTs). They created the cult to have humanoids pawns, but it might not have been their ideas (see next point).

2. The Netherese magic is someone manipulating the Mindflayers behind the scene. This someone is why the PC is aware of the tadpole. This someone is influencing the Cult of the Absolute but not necessarily entirely in control of it. It's quite telling that the cult wants to kill the Druids because they worship Silvanus, but have no issues with a Loviatar Priest and Bane followers around camp.

3. For the mindflayer invasion to work, the Githyanki have to be depowered. How? By stealing an important weapon from them of course! Now this is where it gets weird. We know the thief
Shadowheart
, but the thief doesn't seems to know what they stole exactly. The thief isn't associated with the Cult of the Absolute either. That leaves us with more speculations:
- the people who gave the thief the mission are tadpoled or didn't get the request from whom they claim
Shar
(i.e. usurped identity)
- the mission is exactly as it was which raise more questions about #2 "someone"

4. Nobody seems to know what the thief looks like,
despite the thief being caught and put in a special warded pod in the Mindflayer ship. You think the Mindflayer would have communicated her look to the Absolute. You think the Mindflayers would have taken the mysterious artifact from her too. They did neither.

Also, memory suppressed...or were they altered...and an unknown power acting up when near sites of past Selûne/Shar conflicts.

You know what the glows remind me off? NWN2 PC, who had a shard of the Silver Sword of Gith inside of them. Sword used to defeat the King of Shadows coming to visit from the shadow plane (Shar's original domain). Sword that was originally lost in the Hells and was in possession of Myrkul for a while too.

Maybe the mysterious artifact is just something Shadowheart took while trying to get something else from the Githyanki. It could explain why she is trying to open it instead of just waiting to bring it back to the coven in Baldur's Gate. Or she is terrible at following orders


5. We can see the goal of the Mindflayers, we don't know the goal(s) of the puppetmaster(s) in the EA. We also know some demons are very interested in something, but maybe they just want to swoop in and screw everyone else over at the right time.

6. The Nightsong...Am I the only person confused that it's considered a Selûnite artifact when Shar is the Nightsinger? ...and the trails seems to follow the Absolute.
Posted By: Ulla G Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 20/10/20 04:23 PM
Did anyone else read the book in the Tiefling hideout and think something of it?

It speaks about two sisters, one, a cleric, who wanted to control the powers of an elder brain. According to the book the Elder Brain killed both, but it got me thinking all the same.


I don't think it's there just for shits n giggles, if it is an actual reference/clue to something that did happen. The mural at the grove also set me thinking (given, I'm not the most versed in lore so it might be some other thing that happened and I have no idea about).
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 20/10/20 04:27 PM
Originally Posted by Ulla G
I don't think it's there just for shits n giggles, if it is an actual reference/clue to something that did happen. The mural at the grove also set me thinking (given, I'm not the most versed in lore so it might be some other thing that happened and I have no idea about).


The murals tells the story of how the Grove was created by fighting of the monsters in the region and eventually how they fought the Dark Justicars who came over to attack the Selûnites at the temple and Blighted village.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 20/10/20 06:18 PM
Originally Posted by azarhal

6. The Nightsong...Am I the only person confused that it's considered a Selûnite artifact when Shar is the Nightsinger? ...and the trails seems to follow the Absolute.


I think the nightsong is a person.

It is strange that the Mindflayers made a specially shielded container for shadowheart but do not seem to search for her. Maybe they don't know what is in the box and placed a shield around it for safety reasons
If they do know what is inside they had no chance to communicate information about shadowheart. That or they are not in alliance with the absolute.
Posted By: communal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 21/10/20 06:04 AM
Did anyone else see the record about goblins on the illithid ship? Seems like the mind flayers studied goblin culture to understand how to manipulate them.
Posted By: asdf11784 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 21/10/20 08:43 AM
There's something in the EA that's very easy to miss - I'm not sure what exactly triggers it, but it happened for me when I was playing as a solo character after the 3rd dream. At some point when you go to rest Shadowheart will appear at your camp saying that she's hearing voices that are telling her to find you, and if you pass a wisdom check using the tadpole you can read her thoughts and you can tell that the voices are not coming from her tadpole. At that point you can either agree to let her stay, or if you don't then she'll attack you.

Obviously this event can't happen if Shadowheart is already in your party, but I'm not sure whether it's related to being a solo playthrough or just not having Shadowheart in particular or not. I think it's probably related to the dreams but I'm not 100% sure.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 21/10/20 11:59 AM
Originally Posted by asdf11784
There's something in the EA that's very easy to miss - I'm not sure what exactly triggers it, but it happened for me when I was playing as a solo character after the 3rd dream. At some point when you go to rest Shadowheart will appear at your camp saying that she's hearing voices that are telling her to find you, and if you pass a wisdom check using the tadpole you can read her thoughts and you can tell that the voices are not coming from her tadpole. At that point you can either agree to let her stay, or if you don't then she'll attack you.

Obviously this event can't happen if Shadowheart is already in your party, but I'm not sure whether it's related to being a solo playthrough or just not having Shadowheart in particular or not. I think it's probably related to the dreams but I'm not 100% sure.


That's her 3rd and final "recruit me" scene. She's the only character with one. But some of the other characters will show up at camp after a certain point in the story anyway (and act as if they were always around, it's weird).

As for where the voices are coming from, we can speculate:
- they could be coming from her goddess.
- she could just be crazy.
- it could be the Raphael (he does take the time to save your ass a few times).
Posted By: Spideyknight Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 21/10/20 02:34 PM
Supposedly there is a Dark Justiciar helm in the blighted village on a skeleton that also makes Shadowheart react. I haven't been able to find it, but I have seen a few mention it. This is not the scene behind the windmill. It's another one.
Posted By: Vhaldez Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 21/10/20 02:35 PM
Quote
In the duergar camp a few survivors are trapped with a drow true soul called nere behind rubble.
Nere is leading some duergar
Once the rubble has been removed nere tries to convince or force
the player character to kill the gnomes. If the player did not side with the druids/tieflings against the goblins the player seems to have the option to voluntarily kill the gnome survivors including the one from act 1.
He will then order the players to find a path through the underdark toward moonrise towers.
This could also be the end of act 1 instead of the beginning of act 2 in the final game.


Lol. This is just silly. What kind of "evil" character would be okay with slaving despot cultists without some kind of motivation? Why is everyone on the evil path all about doing harm to innocents for the lulz?
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 21/10/20 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by Spideyknight
Supposedly there is a Dark Justiciar helm in the blighted village on a skeleton that also makes Shadowheart react. I haven't been able to find it, but I have seen a few mention it. This is not the scene behind the windmill. It's another one.


You can find it by entering the Blighted Village from the entrance facing the direction of the Grove and going right between the building and village wall until you reach the end of the buildings. The corpse should be next to the last building there. The shape match the representation of the defeated Shar followers on the Grove's mural.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 21/10/20 03:09 PM
Originally Posted by Vhaldez
Quote
In the duergar camp a few survivors are trapped with a drow true soul called nere behind rubble.
Nere is leading some duergar
Once the rubble has been removed nere tries to convince or force
the player character to kill the gnomes. If the player did not side with the druids/tieflings against the goblins the player seems to have the option to voluntarily kill the gnome survivors including the one from act 1.
He will then order the players to find a path through the underdark toward moonrise towers.
This could also be the end of act 1 instead of the beginning of act 2 in the final game.


Lol. This is just silly. What kind of "evil" character would be okay with slaving despot cultists without some kind of motivation? Why is everyone on the evil path all about doing harm to innocents for the lulz?


Chaotic evil path. People seems to think that's the only evil path in the EA. It's not. You can side with Kagha, closing off the Grove and screwing/killing the Tieflings while getting Haslin to help you (because he can't go back to his grove).

Hell, I did what people call the "good path" and I could tell people I did it all because killing goblins was fun, there was lots of bloodshed and murder. There is even an Evil Cleric choice to say it's was all in the name of your god to Nettie. lol.
Posted By: Vhaldez Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 21/10/20 03:11 PM
Quote
You can side with Kagha, closing off the Grove and screwing/killing the Tieflings while getting Haslin to help you (because he can't go back to his grove).


Really? confused I thought there were only two endings? Does this reflect in the final cutscene also?

EDIT: wait never mind, this is the "race war" ending I read about and it is allegedly really bugged. You have inspired me to do yet another playthrough to get this ending though so thank you, haha
Posted By: Neuleser Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 21/10/20 04:01 PM
Originally Posted by asdf11784
There's something in the EA that's very easy to miss - I'm not sure what exactly triggers it, but it happened for me when I was playing as a solo character after the 3rd dream. At some point when you go to rest Shadowheart will appear at your camp saying that she's hearing voices that are telling her to find you, and if you pass a wisdom check using the tadpole you can read her thoughts and you can tell that the voices are not coming from her tadpole. At that point you can either agree to let her stay, or if you don't then she'll attack you.

Obviously this event can't happen if Shadowheart is already in your party, but I'm not sure whether it's related to being a solo playthrough or just not having Shadowheart in particular or not. I think it's probably related to the dreams but I'm not 100% sure.


Watsonian answer
Shadowsheart has a mysterious box which influences her into attempting to join the PC's camp or die trying.



Doylist answer
Shadowheart has a plot-relevant item which the PC needs to get by either letting her join the party or killing her.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 21/10/20 07:10 PM
Everything in this game seems to lead to Moonrise towers.
The captured cambion, the survivors, the cure, the cultists, the disappared sharrans, the nightsong must also be on the way.

The dark justiciars plot seems to be important for Shadowheart. Some possible outcomes

Find the Dark Justiciar's lair.
Shadowheart died. We won't be able to bring her back.
Shadowheart left our party and won't return.


Posted By: Vhaldez Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 21/10/20 08:14 PM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
the nightsong must also be on the way.



It was leaked what the Nightsong is. Not where it shows up though.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 21/10/20 08:43 PM
I think the approximate location is quite clear.

We stumble across many dead dark justiciars. This is the location Halsin was talking about.
I think they were led by Ketheric. Then we can side with or against Ketheric to save or damn the nightsong.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 21/10/20 08:53 PM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
I think the approximate location is quite clear.

We stumble across many dead dark justiciars. This is the location Halsin was talking about.
I think they were led by Ketheric. Then we can side with or against Ketheric to save or damn the nightsong.


They were defeated and died a long time ago, Haslin was there and tell you as such.

Also, Shar is the Nightsinger, not Selûne... wink
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 21/10/20 09:02 PM
I can tell you as a matter of fact that the game files show

The nightsong being a cursed female
Ketheric being in opposition to her
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 21/10/20 09:07 PM
So I just played the video at the end of the EA and the fortress at the end used to be
the Dark Justicicars stronghold, the statues are wearing the same helmet you can find in Blighted Tower and on the Grove mural.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 21/10/20 09:10 PM
Which makes it a natural location for the cursed Ketheric (or his ghost?) and the nightsong
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 21/10/20 09:35 PM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
Which makes it a natural location for the cursed Ketheric (or his ghost?) and the nightsong


Haslin less or more says he killed Ketheric.

It should probably be noted that the Moonrise Tower existed in the setting before BG3 and it's not underground. Just in case people believe the end of EA cutscene shows the place.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 21/10/20 09:41 PM
I've read that it was a Tollhouse. Yes, it is over ground. I would not be surprised for the cultists to have extended its foundation into the underdark.
There is also a book talking about Ketheric fighting with another druid after his planned assault on moonhaven
Posted By: Spideyknight Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 21/10/20 09:44 PM
Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by Spideyknight
Supposedly there is a Dark Justiciar helm in the blighted village on a skeleton that also makes Shadowheart react. I haven't been able to find it, but I have seen a few mention it. This is not the scene behind the windmill. It's another one.


You can find it by entering the Blighted Village from the entrance facing the direction of the Grove and going right between the building and village wall until you reach the end of the buildings. The corpse should be next to the last building there. The shape match the representation of the defeated Shar followers on the Grove's mural.



Hmm...I appreciate it, I found it, but didn't get any sort of reaction from her. I had found it in one of my previous playthroughs as well, and no reaction there either. Must be bugged for me.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 21/10/20 10:46 PM
Originally Posted by Spideyknight
Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by Spideyknight
Supposedly there is a Dark Justiciar helm in the blighted village on a skeleton that also makes Shadowheart react. I haven't been able to find it, but I have seen a few mention it. This is not the scene behind the windmill. It's another one.


You can find it by entering the Blighted Village from the entrance facing the direction of the Grove and going right between the building and village wall until you reach the end of the buildings. The corpse should be next to the last building there. The shape match the representation of the defeated Shar followers on the Grove's mural.



Hmm...I appreciate it, I found it, but didn't get any sort of reaction from her. I had found it in one of my previous playthroughs as well, and no reaction there either. Must be bugged for me.


She only react to the first thing you find in the village among:
- journal talking about the kidnapped kids
- the helmet
- the broken Selûne statue behind the windmill

Could be another one, but I don't remember it right now.

It could also be bugged for you. I saw someone who had the powerful stone on the pedestal, while in all 3 of my PT, it was on the ground.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 22/10/20 06:20 PM
Why would they limit her reactions? Are 3 short reactions in the village really enough to annoy the players?
If Ketheric is still there and so is the absolute then a connection between shar and the absolute should be found at moonrise towers
Posted By: Vhaldez Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 22/10/20 07:13 PM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
If Ketheric is still there and so is the absolute then a connection between shar and the absolute should be found at moonrise towers


Ketheric and his entire army is a pile of dust and bones. The Duergar are camping in their stronghold, it is where you end up at after the boat ride. Shadowheart comments on the power of the Absolute if she overcame an entire fortress worth of Sharran forces.



Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 22/10/20 07:18 PM
But there is a quest entry about

about siding with Ketheric


But if Shadowheart is not in error that makes an absolute/sharr alliance unlikely
Posted By: Vhaldez Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 22/10/20 07:22 PM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
SPOILERS


Huh, I had no idea. I have not

Glitched into the Duergar Camp myself, but the wiki says that if you have Shadowheart in your tea...ng or someone very powerful killed them.[Linked Image]



Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 22/10/20 07:27 PM
But she did not explicitly say that it was the absolute.
Ketheric seems to be alive in some form and plays a part in the nightsong quest
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 22/10/20 11:58 PM
Haslin's journal is interesting. The guy died while we were clearing the gobbos, after he got his ass thrown into the spiders.

The Shadow Curse was raised a century ago around the Moonrise Towers.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 23/10/20 01:51 AM
More stuff found at the grove from reports/annals that you need to steal.

One entry mention it is DR 1492 in the Grove Annals, it has the exact date Haslin leaves with the mercenaries.

Haslin has notes about the Shadow Curse, it's of divine origin, especially mentioning Shar. He also links what the mercenaries are looking for to the Shadow Curse.

I guess we know from where the Netherese shadow magic is coming from now...

Posted By: dza101 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 23/10/20 11:34 AM
Originally Posted by azarhal
Haslin's journal is interesting. The guy died while we were clearing the gobbos, after he got his ass thrown into the spiders.

The Shadow Curse was raised a century ago around the Moonrise Towers.



That means the curse went up during the spellplague
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 23/10/20 06:58 PM
"I guess we know from where the Netherese shadow magic is coming from now..."

The tadpole tampering seems to be a more recent event. If there is a source of the shadow magic at moonrise towers it makes sense for someone to go there and exploit it. Why don't the tadpoles need to eat? Something must power them. We know that humanoids can be sustained by big ion stones, maybe the same works for splinters and tadpoles.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 24/10/20 12:58 AM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
"I guess we know from where the Netherese shadow magic is coming from now..."

The tadpole tampering seems to be a more recent event. If there is a source of the shadow magic at moonrise towers it makes sense for someone to go there and exploit it. Why don't the tadpoles need to eat? Something must power them. We know that humanoids can be sustained by big ion stones, maybe the same works for splinters and tadpoles.


The tadpoles are technically in stasis, that's probably why they don't eat. They are in suspended animation unless you use them going by the explanations after using them or getting it upgraded by Omeluum. If pocked enough they will eat chunk of your brain and grow bigger. Also probably why they can cause insta-transformation as seen in the ship if you play the console in one of the room. I said it previously, but I don't think the stasis is caused by the shadow magic. That's a modification done by the mindflayers. I think the shadow magic is what stop you and the other party members from being thralls and under the control of the Absolute from the get go, like all the others we have seen infected.

As for the shadow magic, my point was more that the only source had to be the Shadow Curse. Whatever it's just a side effect because it's all over the area (Haslin's note does say it corrupts everything living) or because someone is using it on purpose is something we will only understand once we have the rest of Act 1 I think.



Posted By: OneManArmy Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 24/10/20 08:55 AM
The Mind Flayers have a legend about the "Adversary" - an unusual representative of the race who retained his personality before the transformation and plays his own game. Perhaps Lolth and Shar are also involved.

Most likely he is a strong psionic and a wizard, and in the Moon Towers will appear to us in the form of the Goddess Absolute, most likely in the same form in which he comes to us in dreams. This will be the illusion that we already saw in the first act. Thanks to his illusion, he managed to plant a tadpole on the goblin leaders without them noticing it.

Something went wrong with us, we have a tadpole and his power, but there is no direct control of the Absolute over us, and therefore we can reveal his deception. This is the main reason why he wants to destroy us, even if we are helping the goblins.

This is my guess
Posted By: Nyanko Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 24/10/20 09:06 AM
What if Shadowheart is also a justicar and this is the very reason part of her memory was wiped so she couldn't be discovered and killed until she finally gets to the nightsong and the absolute? Cause when you discover the helmet, she has the same magic manifestation on her hand that she gets when near the Selune statue in the village. I have this impression Shadowheart's story arc is deeply grounded into the absolute raise to power.
Posted By: Mister Monster Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 24/10/20 11:18 AM
Interesting new tidbit I came across:

Upon the end of the evil playthrough's choices, the goblins around your Altar to the Absolute...

... call it a 'Him'.
Posted By: Abits Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 24/10/20 11:49 AM
Originally Posted by Mister Monster
Interesting new tidbit I came across:

Upon the end of the evil playthrough's choices, the goblins around your Altar to the Absolute...

... call it a 'Him'.

How progressive of them. Maybe the absolute is gender fluid
Posted By: Vhaldez Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 24/10/20 12:06 PM
Originally Posted by Abits

How progressive of them. Maybe the absolute is gender fluid


If the Absolute is projecting itself as your "dream partner" that you make in the intro then Larian is setting themselves up for some serious clownery.
Posted By: Abits Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 24/10/20 12:13 PM
I think Larian mentioned somewhere that your dream person is an actual person who will come into play later in the game, but I don't think the dream person and the absolute are one and the same. Are there any abstract gods in FR?
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 24/10/20 12:17 PM
Originally Posted by Nyanko
What if Shadowheart is also a justicar and this is the very reason part of her memory was wiped so she couldn't be discovered and killed until she finally gets to the nightsong and the absolute? Cause when you discover the helmet, she has the same magic manifestation on her hand that she gets when near the Selune statue in the village. I have this impression Shadowheart's story arc is deeply grounded into the absolute raise to power.


Her mission is related to the mysterious artifacts she has. She's supposed to bring the box back to the Baldur's Gate coven.

Now whatever the Baldur's Gate Shar coven leaders are tadpoled and the mission is related to the Absolute is up in the air...
Posted By: Vhaldez Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 24/10/20 12:18 PM
Originally Posted by Abits
I think Larian mentioned somewhere that your dream person is an actual person who will come into play later in the game, but I don't think the dream person and the absolute are one and the same. Are there any abstract gods in FR?



No idea. I doubt diving into auxillary FR lore will help us understand it anyway, the story has to make sense in of itself and right now it just kind of doesn't.
Posted By: Abits Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 24/10/20 12:25 PM
Originally Posted by Vhaldez
Originally Posted by Abits
I think Larian mentioned somewhere that your dream person is an actual person who will come into play later in the game, but I don't think the dream person and the absolute are one and the same. Are there any abstract gods in FR?



No idea. I doubt diving into auxillary FR lore will help us understand it anyway, the story has to make sense in of itself and right now it just kind of doesn't.

It's true in theory but I feel like even bg1-2 didn't do a very good job in that department. The worst game in that regard was planescape torment actually. Half the time I had no idea where the hell am I and what the hell is going on. And no, the fact that the world is full of lore books that potentially explain everything does not qualify as good world building. Mass effect, dragon age, the Witcher, all of these games are good examples of games that thought you enough about the world through the story itself.
Posted By: Bernkastel Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 24/10/20 12:26 PM
Game informer october 2:

"Will you be a beast taming mage-breaking charlatan halfling ranger with a toxic frog as a familiar, or a noble githyanki eldritch knight who let herself be seduced by the Absolute, with the ability to psionically drag her enemies towards her," says the team. "Or, will you go for a more traditional tiefling warlock who made a pact with the devil? The choices are endless!"

So I guess the dream person is really the absolute.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 24/10/20 06:43 PM
I am pretty sure that the dream entity is the absolute. But why doesn't it point us towards its supporters among the goblins? "Follow me, I promise you power. Meanwhile go ahead and butcher my goblin army."
Posted By: Vhaldez Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 24/10/20 06:58 PM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
I am pretty sure that the dream entity is the absolute. But why doesn't it point us towards its supporters among the goblins? "Follow me, I promise you power. Meanwhile go ahead and butcher my goblin army."



But the goblins are not the Absolute's army. That plot point is a little bizarre when you think of it. The goblins are just roped in by Minthara and promised things by Gut so they raid for the Absolute. The Duergar slaver and his gang as well as everyone we will meet once we get off the boat and any True Souls we have already met are the Absolute's real army.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 24/10/20 07:02 PM
A group of armed people fighting for me -> my army
Maybe the goblins could be considered mercenaries because they only work in exchange for what the absolute provides. But is that different for the True-Souls? Either they are in it for personal benefits or they are somehow enslaved.
Posted By: Vhaldez Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 24/10/20 07:16 PM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
A group of armed people fighting for me -> my army
Maybe the goblins could be considered mercenaries because they only work in exchange for what the absolute provides. But is that different for the True-Souls? Either they are in it for personal benefits or they are somehow enslaved.


The goblins betray you and if you go back to their camp you have to kill them all. Truth be told we have no idea what True Souls even do and you are the only one who is aware of Illithid meddling in Absolute business. Gut tries to imprison you if you tell her you are infected. If I had to guess I think they are all enslaved, but I have no idea what the Absolute thinks to gain from that.

What is a real shame is that in DOS2 you had a similar promise done right with Lucian. A "good" god with evil personal motivations for a greater good. Now though the Absolute is convincing literally nobody that they are some kind of all-powerful god, nor are they trying to stop something more powerful than all the gods like the void in DOS.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 24/10/20 07:23 PM
Even though the true souls competing for the favor of the absolut suggests that they are not entirely enslaved. Someone mentioned that they get 'their' tadpoles at an initiation at moonrise towers. Probably they go there to become true-souls voluntarily but no one tells them about the little surprise ingredient to their new power.
Posted By: Vhaldez Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 24/10/20 07:26 PM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
Even though the true souls competing for the favor of the absolut suggests that they are not entirely enslaved. Someone mentioned that they get 'their' tadpoles at an initiation at moonrise towers. Probably they go there to become true-souls voluntarily but no one tells them about the little surprise ingredient to their new power.



Which is absurd because the player is keenly and immediatly aware of this, since the opening cinematic. I read in the transcript of the Kevin vanOrd livestream that the Nautiloid section was one of the last things they added, if that is true they royally screwed up their own plot by making us aware of the true nature of the Absolute. It also makes the "evil" path one where you choose to ignore this information and do something you know is not in your best interests, separate even from the fact that you mass murder a small town's worth of people.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 24/10/20 07:35 PM
I guess the idea is that the initiation ceremony involves amnesia about the tadpole insertion. The player knows what it is that grants the psionic abilities. A potential threat. But the absolute sends dreams nonetheless. It promises you power and support but it also wants you dead. It appears to be mad. Maybe just sloppy writing.
Posted By: Nyanko Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 24/10/20 07:38 PM
Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by Nyanko
What if Shadowheart is also a justicar and this is the very reason part of her memory was wiped so she couldn't be discovered and killed until she finally gets to the nightsong and the absolute? Cause when you discover the helmet, she has the same magic manifestation on her hand that she gets when near the Selune statue in the village. I have this impression Shadowheart's story arc is deeply grounded into the absolute raise to power.


Her mission is related to the mysterious artifacts she has. She's supposed to bring the box back to the Baldur's Gate coven.

Now whatever the Baldur's Gate Shar coven leaders are tadpoled and the mission is related to the Absolute is up in the air...


But there is some kind of a weird loop with the fact she stole a githyanki artifact aboard the ship of their arch enemy. Was she after Lae'zel from the beginning? And did they get caught together, one trying to steal from the other? Because when you meet the raiders up north, Lae'zel seems to be pretty aware the party has it but chooses not to say anything. And their enmity is clearly over the top. So they might have a grudge we don't know about yet. Or even better, what if they work together and are actually faking their enmity?
Posted By: Vhaldez Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 24/10/20 07:43 PM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
I guess the idea is that the initiation ceremony involves amnesia about the tadpole insertion. The player knows what it is that grants the psionic abilities. A potential threat. But the absolute sends dreams nonetheless. It promises you power and support but it also wants you dead. It appears to be mad. Maybe just sloppy writing.


You were most likely on your way to Moonrise and a memory wipe in service of the Absolute, the Illithids were bringing you there. The problem with this theory however is that Shadowheart already has memory loss and is probably a brainwashed cleric of Selune, on top of that she has a Gith weapon that we know nothing about. Something does not add up there and I don't know what was written first.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 24/10/20 07:43 PM
She was on a mission to steal it prior to being captured. Which is probably why she was kept in a separate capsule with strong sealing
Shadowheart appears to suffer a different kind of amnesia. There is an incentive to have deep secrets and major problems with every origin character. Making them all companions leads to problems.
Posted By: Vhaldez Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 24/10/20 07:48 PM
So was the Absolute going to turn her into a "beautiful weapon" like she suggests? Why is she not being hunted by a third party like Astarion? The Gith squad attacked the Nautiloid to get the artifact back but they were the people she robbed it from in the first place, right?

Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog

Shadowheart appears to suffer a different kind of amnesia. There is an incentive to have deep secrets and major problems with every origin character. Making them all companions leads to problems.


Well said. Everyone is a main character but us, it seems.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 24/10/20 07:53 PM
The gith are looking for it. Considering how important the thing seems to be to them there should be more than one Gith team in the area. Gith are not very good at social interaction with the people in Faerun but they could bribe some locals to spy for them.
The mindflayers knew about it, otherwise why shield Shadowheart. If they were in alliance with the absolute, the absolute should know about it and should know from the tadpole that Shadowheart has it. But the absolute and its followers do not seem to care about it.
Posted By: Vhaldez Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 24/10/20 07:56 PM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
The gith are looking for it. Considering how important the thing seems to be to them there should be more than one Gith team in the area. Gith are not very good at social interaction with the people in Faerun but they could bribe some locals to spy for them.


What I mean is that

Cazador already has people on the Sword Coast looking for Astarion seemingly before you crash-landed. A Gur monster hunter is hanging out in front of Ethel's hut who after a pursuasion check admits he is hunting a vampire spawn called Astarion. If you ask Astarion himself about it later he explains that this is a mind game by Cazador based on his siring when a group of Gur beat him to death's door and Cazador saved him.



If that guy can do, what is stopping a literally Godess from looking for you? The goblins and Minthara run into you by chance, lol.

Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
The mindflayers knew about it, otherwise why shield Shadowheart. If they were in alliance with the absolute, the absolute should know about it and should know from the tadpole that Shadowheart has it. But the absolute and its followers do not seem to care about it.


Fair point, but what does it have to do with anything then? Another unsolved mystery for Act 2? The Baldurian coven of Shar theory I have read about here is true?
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 24/10/20 08:05 PM
There is a quest line leading to Baldurs Gate that involves Shar. Shadowheart is supposed to bring the artifact to baldurs gate. But we will also meet justiciars of shar and a shar temple in Act 2. Maybe there are close ties between Shar and the Absolute or their proximity is a coincidence.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 24/10/20 11:03 PM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
The gith are looking for it. Considering how important the thing seems to be to them there should be more than one Gith team in the area. Gith are not very good at social interaction with the people in Faerun but they could bribe some locals to spy for them.
The mindflayers knew about it, otherwise why shield Shadowheart. If they were in alliance with the absolute, the absolute should know about it and should know from the tadpole that Shadowheart has it. But the absolute and its followers do not seem to care about it.


The Githyanki might be looking for it, but they clearly have no idea who has it and barely know what it looks like.

It's possible Shadowheart was shielded for other reasons, like her flaring magical powers.

The Absolute seems to have been made aware there was a "weapon" inside the ship at some point. It doesn't mean it knows what it is and who has it. Edowin was going to the ship to find a "weapon" but gives no description. His "siblings" believed they were going to rescue survivors. The Goblins/Minthara doesn't seems to know anything.

Shadowheart has self-banter at the Grove (if you don't recruit her at the beach), where she says she just has to keep it safe (until she bring it to Baldur's Gate). That's probably the extend of her knowledge on the matter...
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 24/10/20 11:51 PM
I found something else about Ketheric in the Grove. It didn't register the first time I read that "historical scroll" because it only mention Ketheric and I read it long before getting the Dark Justicar story later in the EA.

The person writing the scroll blame himself for how Ketheric turned. Saying he didn't fall, but was pushed via causing him grief. And that shadow twisted his grief. The scroll is probably written by Haslin.


Posted By: Surface R Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 25/10/20 07:12 PM
The player and companions only know about the tadpole because the Nautiloid crashed so the process was interrupted half way through.

Thats the gist of it one can infer, seeing how other true souls dont know and refuse the idea of a tadpole in their heads.

The vision you get from the Goblin warlord of Illithids in a circle, all united, something, something - could be a sort of religious ceremony - process of telepathic union with their new god, illensine ?
And that would be normal for Illithids since they are usually all connected and control by Elder brains - which in this case is their new God. Who is the Absolute.
Which may very well be the new trick the Dead Three are playing on everyone.

Im not sure but i think they have been reduced to having physical bodies again, so maybe they united to be stronger and are hiding as the Absolute - pretending to be the new Illithid God.
Trying to build a new and improved army.

Since the dead three will be involved in some way, i kinda wish Bane would take prominence this time around.
Posted By: Neuleser Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 25/10/20 09:57 PM
Originally Posted by Surface R
Since the dead three will be involved in some way, i kinda wish Bane would take prominence this time around.


Isn't one of the NPC in the Goblin camp a worshipper of one of his servants?
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 25/10/20 11:14 PM
There is a Loviatar servant there. Loviatar serves Bane. But they imprisoned the priest of the goblin god who also serves Bane.
Larian wanted to make a plot by Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul the center of the Baldurs Gate 3 story. The Absolute amulet is the symbol of Myrkul. The altar in the goblin camp fits that story, too. Maybe they decided at some point to make them hide behind an invented god "the absolute" or they thought they had a more intersting idea for a new enemy and replaced them with the absolute.

"Edowin was going to the ship to find a "weapon" but gives no description. His "siblings" believed they were going to rescue survivors."
Did they believe that? They attack the player once they find out that he/she is a survivor.
I am starting to consider the option that everything is so confusing because Larian changed the story and the rewrite is incomplete
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 25/10/20 11:52 PM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
The Absolute amulet is the symbol of Myrkul.

"Edowin was going to the ship to find a "weapon" but gives no description. His "siblings" believed they were going to rescue survivors."
Did they believe that? They attack the player once they find out that he/she is a survivor.


In don't think there was any changes there, the Cult of the Absolute was mentioned along the Dead Three way back at E3.

The siblings mention going looking for survivors as if they wanted to rescue them. I never used the "I'm a survivor" option, maybe I should check that one out. Eodwin mentions looking for a weapon for the Absolute if you use "speak with dead" on him.

It is possible the "weapon" is your party. Which would mean that "Daisy" in the dream is not the Absolute...oh and that you're just pawns for someone/something.

update: I went to tell the siblings I'm a survivor. They actually say they are are looking for fugitives, then switch to survivors. That explain why they attack you.
Posted By: OneManArmy Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 26/10/20 03:10 AM
I have an assumption that the Absolute is just a proxy of Lolth who plays with tadpoles, they are one and the same. The following things speak in favor of this:
1.) Goblins do not attack drow because "the drow bears the seal of the absolute." Lolth believes she has rights over all drow.
2.) Minthara talks about returning to Menzoberranzan under the control of Lolth's clerics, as if she would be greeted there with honors and not executed for not serving Lolth.
3.) Betrayal of a character who helps the Absolute is pointless, but it's very Lolth's style to give such an order.
4.) Minthara mentions "test of the absolute" - "test" is a typical mechanic for Lolth, other gods have not been seen in such perversions (https://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/races/elf/drow2.shtml)
5.) Minthara gives us Drider to help us as if she were actually a cleric of Lolth

It is also obvious that the Shar also has something to do with this. Answer in Moonrise Towers
Posted By: Surface R Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 26/10/20 05:18 AM
Yeah Shar is involved somehow. Multiple gods are and the Hells.

The siblings attacking us is just a mistake by the devs. The Cultists should not attack True Souls at all. We see that in Goblin camp where you are accepted and fights brake out only if you attack them or say wrong things to three leaders.

Posted By: Ulla G Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 26/10/20 05:33 AM
One thing the dream sequence person says that got my attention is "agony suits you, suffering less so" and considering the presence of Loviatar it got me thinking, suffering being the domain of both her and Jergal, who is referenced lots as well.

Another thing is that Swen, during the podcast where he mentions the dream NPC, refers to the custom character (player character) as "avatar" briefly, correcting himself right away. Although english is not his first language it didn't escape notice as that is something in the realm of possibilities, either for the player or the dream sequence. Just throwing thoughts here.
Posted By: Spideyknight Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 26/10/20 06:03 AM
Originally Posted by Ulla G
One thing the dream sequence person says that got my attention is "agony suits you, suffering less so" and considering the presence of Loviatar it got me thinking, suffering being the domain of both her and Jergal, who is referenced lots as well.

Another thing is that Swen, during the podcast where he mentions the dream NPC, refers to the custom character (player character) as "avatar" briefly, correcting himself right away. Although english is not his first language it didn't escape notice as that is something in the realm of possibilities, either for the player or the dream sequence. Just throwing thoughts here.



Probably just a mistake on his part. Avatars of Gods would have increased stats and other abilities that I'm not sure can be hidden.
Posted By: Warlocke Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 26/10/20 06:28 AM
Custom characters are generically referred as “avatar” in the game files. You can see this a lot if you start a game with multiple custom characters. It is just BG3’s version of CHARNAME.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 26/10/20 12:01 PM
Originally Posted by Ulla G
One thing the dream sequence person says that got my attention is "agony suits you, suffering less so" and considering the presence of Loviatar it got me thinking, suffering being the domain of both her and Jergal, who is referenced lots as well.

Another thing is that Swen, during the podcast where he mentions the dream NPC, refers to the custom character (player character) as "avatar" briefly, correcting himself right away. Although english is not his first language it didn't escape notice as that is something in the realm of possibilities, either for the player or the dream sequence. Just throwing thoughts here.


Avatar is the name given to playable characters in video games, especially in french (which Swen speak). They are the player's avatar inside the game, it's not some secret plot elements.

Posted By: rodeolifant Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 26/10/20 01:58 PM
I suspect it's [something representing] The Dead Three. My theory is as follows:


1. Load screens indicate that the Dead Three are something important, yet we've seen nothing about it.
2. The game ties in [somewhat] to Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, Bhaal is part of the Dead Three
3. The name 'Absolute' suggests something that 'covers everything', something combined
4. The forces we encounter have no problem with the portfolio's of the Dead Three
5. We obtain the services of something talkative that serves Jergal and/or Kelemvor. Jergal is also directly responsible for The Dead Three.
6. There are clerics of the Absolute, indicating something [at least remotely] Divine.

Then. I highly, highly suspect all origin stories will tie in to the main plot and all will find an enemy in the Absolute, and perhaps some will find an ally. Yet I doubt ANY of these are the actual Absolute.

And we've already encountered most of the opposing forces.
Avernus [Zariel] - Raphael is introduced as the if-you-fail-at-other-things option. There are quite a number of mentions/depictions of the Bloodwar and [Descent into] Avernus. It's bound to be important.
Demons [Wyll] - He comes with a Demon overlord. One that might have a vested interest in the above mentioned Bloodwar.
Githyanki [Laezal] - Tiamat once held Zariel's position, again, in Avernus, currently allied with the Githyanki.
Sharrans [Shadowheart] Shadowheart directly opposes the Githyanki, they weren't chasing Mindflayers, they were chasing Shadowheart and the... Relic of Holies.
Vampires [Astarion] - His origin will undoubtely be the choice of 'side with Vamps and overtrhow the other evil, or be more evil and overthrow the Vamps'
Selunites [Default Tav] - Also mentioned to be in a war against Sharrans, their stuff is broken everywhere.

This leaves Gale. Personally, I do not believe Gale's story in the slightest, and I suspect him to just be [unknowingly] teleporting magic stuff to someone else. He'd need 2000 years and a pointy hat for me to believe his origin. Or perhaps that is his destiny or something? He's Chosen to go all Catastrophe on the Absolute?


Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 26/10/20 02:15 PM
Originally Posted by rodeolifant
I suspect it's [something representing] The Dead Three. My theory is as follows:


1. Load screens indicate that the Dead Three are something important, yet we've seen nothing about it.
2. The game ties in [somewhat] to Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, Bhaal is part of the Dead Three
3. The name 'Absolute' suggests something that 'covers everything', something combined
4. The forces we encounter have no problem with the portfolio's of the Dead Three
5. We obtain the services of something talkative that serves Jergal and/or Kelemvor. Jergal is also directly responsible for The Dead Three.
6. There are clerics of the Absolute, indicating something [at least remotely] Divine.

Then. I highly, highly suspect all origin stories will tie in to the main plot and all will find an enemy in the Absolute, and perhaps some will find an ally. Yet I doubt ANY of these are the actual Absolute.

And we've already encountered most of the opposing forces.
Avernus [Zariel] - Raphael is introduced as the if-you-fail-at-other-things option. There are quite a number of mentions/depictions of the Bloodwar and [Descent into] Avernus. It's bound to be important.
Demons [Wyll] - He comes with a Demon overlord. One that might have a vested interest in the above mentioned Bloodwar.
Githyanki [Laezal] - Tiamat once held Zariel's position, again, in Avernus, currently allied with the Githyanki.
Sharrans [Shadowheart] Shadowheart directly opposes the Githyanki, they weren't chasing Mindflayers, they were chasing Shadowheart and the... Relic of Holies.
Vampires [Astarion] - His origin will undoubtely be the choice of 'side with Vamps and overtrhow the other evil, or be more evil and overthrow the Vamps'
Selunites [Default Tav] - Also mentioned to be in a war against Sharrans, their stuff is broken everywhere.

This leaves Gale. Personally, I do not believe Gale's story in the slightest, and I suspect him to just be [unknowingly] teleporting magic stuff to someone else. He'd need 2000 years and a pointy hat for me to believe his origin. Or perhaps that is his destiny or something? He's Chosen to go all Catastrophe on the Absolute?



The 3 in the game title is based on the 3 floating towers in Avernus that launch imps in the intro cinematic.

Technically, Wyll's patron is just an neutral evil outsider as Succubus aren't demons in 5e anymore, just fiends. She could be working for anyone evil.

Going by Astarion
, the vampires could be allied to Avernus as his master engraved an infernal poem on his back. He also seems to worship Shar.
Posted By: Vhaldez Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 26/10/20 02:23 PM
Originally Posted by azarhal


The 3 in the game title is based on the 3 floating towers in Avernus that launch imps in the intro cinematic.

Technically, Wyll's patron is just an neutral evil outsider as Succubus aren't demons in 5e anymore, just fiends. She could be working for anyone evil.

Going by Astarion
, the vampires could be allied to Avernus as his master engraved an infernal poem on his back. He also seems to worship Shar.


I hope that
the story is not as such that everyone has a secret divine employer. It would be much more interesting to position the player in a power game between independent actors once you get to Baldur's Gate proper.

Posted By: kanisatha Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 26/10/20 02:26 PM
As I said in another thread, Shar being someone calling themselves the Absolute fits her lore. I vaguely even remember in one of the old FR novels Shar referring to herself as "Absolute" or at least as something akin to being "absolute."

I agree the "avatar" reference is probably just terminology for the PC. However, it is possible the PC is a Chosen of some god. Chosens emerged as a prominent theme only in 3e lore and thereafter (so after the original BG games), and a Chosen can be an ordinary person to whom at some point a god gives a part of their divine essence. So the PC may be already selected to be some god's Chosen, but who has not yet received the god's essence (or the essence is currently dormant and the PC doesn't yet realize they have it in them).
Posted By: Warlocke Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 26/10/20 02:28 PM
Doesn’t Wyll specifically declare his patron as being a demon?

And yeah, not every origin character needs to be representative of a faction. Since there will be at least 8 characters, having them all represent a faction would get convoluted.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 26/10/20 03:52 PM
Originally Posted by Warlocke
Doesn’t Wyll specifically declare his patron as being a demon?

And yeah, not every origin character needs to be representative of a faction. Since there will be at least 8 characters, having them all represent a faction would get convoluted.


Wyll might not be aware that WoTC made a change there. wink
Posted By: rodeolifant Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 26/10/20 04:36 PM
Originally Posted by azarhal

The 3 in the game title is based on the 3 floating towers in Avernus that launch imps in the intro cinematic.[/spoiler]



I wasn't referring to the logo; that three merely points to being the third in a series. I meant the actual loading screens; they specifically mention and name the Dead Three. You know, in the loading screen tips, "Remember, while your character does not have to eat, remember that you do. We don't want to loose any dedicated players" . There are only a handful of tips about the gameworld, including the war between Shar & Selune, it's already apparant that this will be important. As such, whilst we haven't uncovered anything of it, I suspect the Dead Three eventually become equally important.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 26/10/20 04:38 PM
Originally Posted by rodeolifant
Originally Posted by azarhal

The 3 in the game title is based on the 3 floating towers in Avernus that launch imps in the intro cinematic.[/spoiler]



I wasn't referring to the logo; that three merely points to being the third in a series. I meant the actual loading screens; they specifically mention and name the Dead Three. You know, in the loading screen tips, "Remember, while your character does not have to eat, remember that you do. We don't want to loose any dedicated players" . There are only a handful of tips about the gameworld, including the war between Shar & Selune, it's already apparant that this will be important. As such, whilst we haven't uncovered anything of it, I suspect the Dead Three eventually become equally important.


I know what you were referring to. I was just adding that the 3 is shaped like the 3 floating Avernus towers.

The logo isn't just a Bhaal's skull that turns into a Mindflayer. It also has Avernus symbolism on it.
Posted By: Vhaldez Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 26/10/20 04:39 PM
Originally Posted by rodeolifant

As such, whilst we haven't uncovered anything of it, I suspect the Dead Three eventually become equally important.


There is a theory going around that the player is the new Cyric and is destined to ascend to godhood or at least use the godsword to destroy the Dead Three.



Posted By: Nyanko Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 26/10/20 04:42 PM
Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by Warlocke
Doesn’t Wyll specifically declare his patron as being a demon?

And yeah, not every origin character needs to be representative of a faction. Since there will be at least 8 characters, having them all represent a faction would get convoluted.


Wyll might not be aware that WoTC made a change there. wink


She's a half cambion. So she's not a demon but a half devil. And it seems half devils are still able to use pacts. Which is interesting.
Posted By: Leuenherz Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 26/10/20 05:14 PM
Originally Posted by Nyanko
Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by Warlocke
Doesn’t Wyll specifically declare his patron as being a demon?

And yeah, not every origin character needs to be representative of a faction. Since there will be at least 8 characters, having them all represent a faction would get convoluted.


Wyll might not be aware that WoTC made a change there. wink


She's a half cambion. So she's not a demon but a half devil. And it seems half devils are still able to use pacts. Which is interesting.


She's just a cambion, not a half cambion. So, basically the same as Raphael. Pacts can be made with both demons or devils btw, including their halfbreeds. Demons just don't necessarily feel bound by such agreements due to their nature.

Gale's explanation of what makes a cambion is also faulty. Technically, a union with ANY fiend can produce a cambion (older editions had other variations), it is not restricted to incubi and succubi. So, she can be a half-demon OR half-devil.

Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 26/10/20 09:52 PM
Originally Posted by Vhaldez

There is a theory going around that the player is the new Cyric and is destined to ascend to godhood or at least use the godsword to destroy the Dead Three.


That sounds more like a very high level story. BG3 will only go to 12 or so. An interesting option would be to pit the various entities against each other. Sharrans vs. Githyanki vs. Absolute (whatever it is)
Bhaal being involved makes sense for a bit of continuation but if the dead three really want to hind behind the absolute they should not use their symbols everywhere. "If you are coming from iraq, why is there a US Air Force logo on all of your planes?"
Posted By: Nyanko Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 26/10/20 10:59 PM
Originally Posted by Leuenherz
Originally Posted by Nyanko
Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by Warlocke
Doesn’t Wyll specifically declare his patron as being a demon?

And yeah, not every origin character needs to be representative of a faction. Since there will be at least 8 characters, having them all represent a faction would get convoluted.


Wyll might not be aware that WoTC made a change there. wink


She's a half cambion. So she's not a demon but a half devil. And it seems half devils are still able to use pacts. Which is interesting.


She's just a cambion, not a half cambion. So, basically the same as Raphael. Pacts can be made with both demons or devils btw, including their halfbreeds. Demons just don't necessarily feel bound by such agreements due to their nature.

Gale's explanation of what makes a cambion is also faulty. Technically, a union with ANY fiend can produce a cambion (older editions had other variations), it is not restricted to incubi and succubi. So, she can be a half-demon OR half-devil.



No, Wyll states clearly she's a half cambion when you talk to him in the camp. We are talking about Mizora here, right?
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 26/10/20 11:14 PM
Originally Posted by Nyanko
No, Wyll states clearly she's a half cambion when you talk to him in the camp. We are talking about Mizora here, right?


Yes, but I never had much luck with Wyll or Gale to tell me anything despite high approval so I'm going with what others are saying. I read she was a succubus somewhere, then you said half-cambion, then someone else said full cambion than we are back at half-cambion.

But I have no idea what is a half-cambion. Cambions are already half-fiends lol.
Posted By: Mozhad Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 26/10/20 11:26 PM
She's a cambion, aligned with hell. Wyll really gets triggered with Raphael's appearance and tells you to never trust a devil. (He's talking from experience.)
Posted By: Warlocke Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 26/10/20 11:28 PM
I went back and checked on YouTube, he says Mizora is “a cambion; half human, half devil.” So I was wrong, she is a devil and not a demon.

I’m pretty sure that a half-cambion is just a tiefling.
Posted By: rodeolifant Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 26/10/20 11:33 PM
[Linked Image]
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 27/10/20 10:01 PM
Originally Posted by rodeolifant

And we've already encountered most of the opposing forces.
Avernus [Zariel] - Raphael is introduced as the if-you-fail-at-other-things option. There are quite a number of mentions/depictions of the Bloodwar and [Descent into] Avernus. It's bound to be important.
Demons [Wyll] - He comes with a Demon overlord. One that might have a vested interest in the above mentioned Bloodwar.
Githyanki [Laezal] - Tiamat once held Zariel's position, again, in Avernus, currently allied with the Githyanki.
Sharrans [Shadowheart] Shadowheart directly opposes the Githyanki, they weren't chasing Mindflayers, they were chasing Shadowheart and the... Relic of Holies.
Vampires [Astarion] - His origin will undoubtely be the choice of 'side with Vamps and overtrhow the other evil, or be more evil and overthrow the Vamps'
Selunites [Default Tav] - Also mentioned to be in a war against Sharrans, their stuff is broken everywhere.



I think it has been stated that the player will visit Avernus again at some later point in the story.

The Sharrans do not seem to be in a pact with the Absolute. New info on Ketheric from some dialogue responses of the Nightsong:


Thousands of Sharrans came here seeking my kiss. I am her instrument, transforming the faithful into shadows.
I want to sing my own song, not Shars, not Ketherics
Shar is the nightsinger and I her nightsong
I am a slave of Shar
Slay Ketheric, his wretched existence binds me to this temple
I was captured by Ketheric, he turned me into this creature
Posted By: rodeolifant Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 28/10/20 12:35 AM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog

I think it has been stated that the player will visit Avernus again at some later point in the story.
Aye, stated or otherwise, it certainly seems that way. There is also the refugees-from-Elturel who are your friends from a good Act I, and hunted by Minthara/Absolute. Why? Why would they care? Note that one of the Tiefs has that coin, the one chased by an assassin.

Quote

The Sharrans do not seem to be in a pact with the Absolute.



No, I doubt that, as the Sharrans would be one of the factions-to-oppose-or-join against the big bad. Like the Selunites, you can tell that they have been there before you, but they're already gone by the time you get there. Also, I doubt they'd be in league with Mind Flayers.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 28/10/20 01:12 AM
So I've been thinking about the various conversations in the temple my conclusions are:

The only thing the Absolute asked them was:
1. find where the ship missing tadpoled people went and kill them (the kill them is confirmed from goblins ambient discussion inside the Temple)
2. asked the goblins to aid a drow party to raid Waukneen's Rest. The drow had the mission of kidnapping the duke and bringing him back to Moonrise Towers. The goblins were just muscles. This was done pre-ship crashing, if you run from the beach to Waukeen's Rest it is already burning (I tried it).
3. For the rest, the Absolute doesn't care... which is what the Priest of Maglubiyet is complaining about, a real god would keep his people in check.

Someone "higher-up" doesn't trust them, otherwise no reasons to have a scrying eye floating around the base from someone at Moonrise Towers.

The goblins just want to raid and pillage, while Minthara wants to become the Absolute's favorite. I think destroying the grove is a task she invented herself to achieve that (as she said it will make them the Absolute favorites) and she's using the goblins as her expendable grunts to do so (and you too if you accept to participate).
Posted By: Vhaldez Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 28/10/20 07:52 AM
Thanks to datamining we now know that

the Nightsong recoils in horror when she finds out the tadpole is more powerful than Shar.


With that in mind I am becoming less and less interested in what the Absolute is, as it seems like Larian's fanfiction character now.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 28/10/20 11:42 AM
Originally Posted by Vhaldez
Thanks to datamining we now know that

the Nightsong recoils in horror when she finds out the tadpole is more powerful than Shar.


With that in mind I am becoming less and less interested in what the Absolute is, as it seems like Larian's fanfiction character now.


My guess is that the Absolute is still

the Dead Three manipulating the Illithids. So the tadpole would have the influence of the Dead Three vs one goddess.
Posted By: Vhaldez Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 28/10/20 12:35 PM
Originally Posted by azarhal


My guess is that the Absolute is still

the Dead Three manipulating the Illithids. So the tadpole would have the influence of the Dead Three vs one goddess.


You are most likely right.

That means the PC will become the new Cyric and overthrows the Dead Three. This must also be why Jergal is casually hanging out in our camp.



Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 28/10/20 01:41 PM
Originally Posted by Vhaldez
Originally Posted by azarhal


My guess is that the Absolute is still

the Dead Three manipulating the Illithids. So the tadpole would have the influence of the Dead Three vs one goddess.


You are most likely right.

That means the PC will become the new Cyric and overthrows the Dead Three. This must also be why Jergal is casually hanging out in our camp.




I don't think the PC will become a god, as Larian wants the level cap to be near 10 because it's not supposed to be a high level adventure.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 28/10/20 11:11 PM
The level of the player and the companions does not really seem to fit the story.
I wonder what a story about Bhaal, Bane and Myrkul could bring that would lead the player back to Avernus. There seems to be an infernal element in all of this. More than just Raphael being on a dealmaking tour.
Posted By: rodeolifant Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 29/10/20 08:15 AM
Oh, I also found this:

[Linked Image]

The Gnolls in service of the Absolute made this, as evidenced by the 'dialogue' with their Flind leader. Gut's 'Absolute' shield carries the same symbol.
It seems like an amalgimation of the symbols of the Dead three; Bane having his Black Hand, Myrkul and Bhaal both sporting skulls.
Posted By: Vhaldez Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 29/10/20 09:09 AM
Why are the dead three masquerading as a new god with less influence than they have individually?
Posted By: BuckettMonkey Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 29/10/20 09:25 AM
Originally Posted by Vhaldez
Why are the dead three masquerading as a new god with less influence than they have individually?

The return of Mirkul and Baal did not go as they had originally anticipated. All this greatly weakened them. With Bane, the situation is rather incomprehensible, it is possible that he also lost some of his powers.
It is possible that The Dead Three are hoping to gain more power by uniting.
Posted By: Vhaldez Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 29/10/20 09:29 AM
Originally Posted by BuckettMonkey
The return of Mirkul and Baal did not go as they had originally anticipated. All this greatly weakened them. With Bane, the situation is rather incomprehensible, it is possible that he also lost some of his powers.
It is possible that The Dead Three are hoping to gain more power by uniting.


They could have done with a less generic name then.
Posted By: BuckettMonkey Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 29/10/20 09:44 AM
Originally Posted by Vhaldez
Originally Posted by BuckettMonkey
The return of Mirkul and Baal did not go as they had originally anticipated. All this greatly weakened them. With Bane, the situation is rather incomprehensible, it is possible that he also lost some of his powers.
It is possible that The Dead Three are hoping to gain more power by uniting.


They could have done with a less generic name then.







I agree.
However, I personally do not support the theory that the Absolute is The Dead Three.
It seems to me that the Absolute should be much more strongly associated with the illithids.
Posted By: rodeolifant Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 29/10/20 10:11 AM

Alright chaps, it clearly states SPOILERS in the thread title. No need for these tags, so..


Well. I suspect the mind Flayers associated with the Absolute aren't the same as the 'regular' Flayers, the ones that added your tadpole. I supect the Absolute's forces have 'merely' subjugated an Elder Brain or somesuch to control 'people' with a tadpole.

In point of fact, the Flayer Invsasion of Baldur's Gate, as depicted in the game's trailer could be very well in response to just that.
Posted By: Nyanko Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 29/10/20 10:54 AM
The subjugated elder brain is an interesting concept.

What if the illithids who captured the player character are trying to save the elder brain in question by making the player being their pawn to join the absolute and discover what's going on and where it is located? It would explain why the tadpole is dormant. Cause illithids would be destroyed on sight by the absolute followers while apparent 'true souls' would be welcomed in open arms and could infiltrate the cult.
Posted By: BuckettMonkey Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 29/10/20 10:55 AM
Originally Posted by rodeolifant

Alright chaps, it clearly states SPOILERS in the thread title. No need for these tags, so..

Well. I suspect the mind Flayers associated with the Absolute aren't the same as the 'regular' Flayers, the ones that added your tadpole. I supect the Absolute's forces have 'merely' subjugated an Elder Brain or somesuch to control 'people' with a tadpole.

In point of fact, the Flayer Invsasion of Baldur's Gate, as depicted in the game's trailer could be very well in response to just that.


Auntie Ethel says the parasite is enhanced by Netherese magic.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 29/10/20 11:55 AM
Originally Posted by Nyanko
The subjugated elder brain is an interesting concept.

What if the illithids who captured the player character are trying to save the elder brain in question by making the player being their pawn to join the absolute and discover what's going on and where it is located? It would explain why the tadpole is dormant. Cause illithids would be destroyed on sight by the absolute followers while apparent 'true souls' would be welcomed in open arms and could infiltrate the cult.


The cultists tadpoles are dormant too, otherwise they would all have been consumed and turned into mindflayers over the next 7 days after getting them.
Posted By: Ixal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 29/10/20 12:08 PM
Originally Posted by BuckettMonkey
Originally Posted by Vhaldez
Why are the dead three masquerading as a new god with less influence than they have individually?

The return of Mirkul and Baal did not go as they had originally anticipated. All this greatly weakened them. With Bane, the situation is rather incomprehensible, it is possible that he also lost some of his powers.
It is possible that The Dead Three are hoping to gain more power by uniting.


I thought Bhaal took the murder domain back from Cyric, so he is a full fledged god.
Posted By: rodeolifant Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 29/10/20 12:17 PM
Originally Posted by Nyanko
The subjugated elder brain is an interesting concept.

What if the illithids who captured the player character are trying to save the elder brain in question by making the player being their pawn to join the absolute and discover what's going on and where it is located? It would explain why the tadpole is dormant.


I doubt this, the Flayer onboard the Nautiloid thinks you are his thrall, after all.


Quote
Auntie Ethel says the parasite is enhanced by Netherese magic.

Oh, right! There is *that* too. Still, that only supports a how, not necessarily the who. It *does* tie into Gale's story though, the one I couldn't tie in earlier.
Posted By: Nyanko Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 29/10/20 12:19 PM
Originally Posted by rodeolifant
Originally Posted by Nyanko
The subjugated elder brain is an interesting concept.

What if the illithids who captured the player character are trying to save the elder brain in question by making the player being their pawn to join the absolute and discover what's going on and where it is located? It would explain why the tadpole is dormant.


I doubt this, the Flayer onboard the Nautiloid thinks you are his thrall, after all.



But he's the one who put the tadpole inside your head. So are you suggesting he doesn't know it's a special tadpole which has a different purpose than the ones they usually use?
Posted By: Vhaldez Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 29/10/20 12:48 PM
Originally Posted by Nyanko
Originally Posted by rodeolifant
Originally Posted by Nyanko
The subjugated elder brain is an interesting concept.

What if the illithids who captured the player character are trying to save the elder brain in question by making the player being their pawn to join the absolute and discover what's going on and where it is located? It would explain why the tadpole is dormant.


I doubt this, the Flayer onboard the Nautiloid thinks you are his thrall, after all.



But he's the one who put the tadpole inside your head. So are you suggesting he doesn't know it's a special tadpole which has a different purpose than the ones they usually use?


Maybe the (totally not a DOS2 repeat) scene at the end of the intro where a mysterious force saves you from dying is supposed to imply the shadow magic being inserted into the tadpole?
Posted By: rodeolifant Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 29/10/20 01:20 PM
Quote
But he's the one who put the tadpole inside your head. So are you suggesting he doesn't know it's a special tadpole which has a different purpose than the ones they usually use?


Well, yes, why would he? Everyone else on the ship was turning, namely the townsfolk on the gundeck [for lack of better words]. The brain-things think you're one of them, calling you to the helm. You can also turn someone into a Flayer. It all seems like regular Mindflayer tactics so far.

For all we know, nothing was wrong with the tadpole, until the ship crashed, and we were 'in range of the [Netherese] magic-whatever that affects tadpoles'?


Originally Posted by Vhaldez


Maybe the (totally not a DOS2 repeat) scene at the end of the intro where a mysterious force saves you from dying is supposed to imply the shadow magic being inserted into the tadpole?


I thusfar suspected Gale for being responsible for that, but I have no other reason to think that, besides; "A Wizard did it" - Oh, and tht he mentioned me lying somewhere, so he thought I was dead. He could of course mean, on the ship itself.
Posted By: Moirnelithe Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 29/10/20 01:24 PM
Originally Posted by rodeolifant

Originally Posted by Vhaldez


Maybe the (totally not a DOS2 repeat) scene at the end of the intro where a mysterious force saves you from dying is supposed to imply the shadow magic being inserted into the tadpole?


I thusfar suspected Gale for being responsible for that, but I have no other reason to think that, besides; "A Wizard did it" - Oh, and tht he mentioned me lying somewhere, so he thought I was dead. He could of course mean, on the ship itself.

I have a suspicion Gale was never on the nautiloid.
Posted By: Vhaldez Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 29/10/20 01:31 PM
Originally Posted by Moirnelithe
Originally Posted by rodeolifant

Originally Posted by Vhaldez


Maybe the (totally not a DOS2 repeat) scene at the end of the intro where a mysterious force saves you from dying is supposed to imply the shadow magic being inserted into the tadpole?


I thusfar suspected Gale for being responsible for that, but I have no other reason to think that, besides; "A Wizard did it" - Oh, and tht he mentioned me lying somewhere, so he thought I was dead. He could of course mean, on the ship itself.

I have a suspicion Gale was never on the nautiloid.



Because Gale was an Act 2 character and they forgot to reflect this in his push to Act 1, lol.


Isn't it implied that the Absolute saves you? Maybe I'm reading the message wrong but you have 0 context otherwise and making up more outside agents just adds to the confustion.
Posted By: BuckettMonkey Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 29/10/20 01:42 PM
Originally Posted by Ixal
Originally Posted by BuckettMonkey
Originally Posted by Vhaldez
Why are the dead three masquerading as a new god with less influence than they have individually?

The return of Mirkul and Baal did not go as they had originally anticipated. All this greatly weakened them. With Bane, the situation is rather incomprehensible, it is possible that he also lost some of his powers.
It is possible that The Dead Three are hoping to gain more power by uniting.


I thought Bhaal took the murder domain back from Cyric, so he is a full fledged god.

To be honest, I thought so too, but for some reason many sources call him Quasi-divine entity.
Posted By: Surface R Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 29/10/20 01:42 PM
I think it may be the tadpole itself rather then Absolute directly. Or some other more benign force, maybe - thats working against the Absolute. The effect looked a bit "nice" - but it could be the tadpole too since its special effects arent obviously "evil" looking.

So far we havent seen a whiff of any good deities or forces interjecting into the issue at all. So i thought maybe thats a hint.
But its far simpler if it was just the tadpole, protecting you and itself from dying.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 29/10/20 01:53 PM
Originally Posted by Vhaldez
Originally Posted by Nyanko
Originally Posted by rodeolifant
Originally Posted by Nyanko
The subjugated elder brain is an interesting concept.

What if the illithids who captured the player character are trying to save the elder brain in question by making the player being their pawn to join the absolute and discover what's going on and where it is located? It would explain why the tadpole is dormant.


I doubt this, the Flayer onboard the Nautiloid thinks you are his thrall, after all.



But he's the one who put the tadpole inside your head. So are you suggesting he doesn't know it's a special tadpole which has a different purpose than the ones they usually use?


Maybe the (totally not a DOS2 repeat) scene at the end of the intro where a mysterious force saves you from dying is supposed to imply the shadow magic being inserted into the tadpole?


Raphael is the entity that makes the most sense to have saved you. He send someone to save you later in the game if you take a certain path with Priestess Gut and fail some rolls (or just don't take them) even if you haven't meet him first.

He needs you.
Posted By: Vhaldez Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 29/10/20 01:55 PM
Originally Posted by azarhal


Raphael is the entity that makes the most sense to have saved you. He send someone to save you later in the game if you take a certain path with Priestess Gut and fail some rolls (or just don't take them) even if you haven't meet him first.

He needs you.


I was thinking Raphael too but thought it made no sense for him to save you before you even meet him. Going by what we know it is the most likely possibility though.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 29/10/20 10:13 PM
We don't know since when Raphael knows about the Absolute. A nautiloid showing up in Avernus would hardly go unnoticed.
I don't think that the Mindflayers on the Ship were not aware of what was going on with the tadpoles. The one questioned by Ragzlin certainly knows a lot about the Absolute.
Let's assume that someone tampered with all tadpoles in existence. That would be an existential threat to the Mindflayers because they could no longer create new Mindflayers. So they started to experiment with a device that can initiate rapid ceremorphosis on the modified tadpoles.
I don't believe that to be the case but it would explain the seeming contradiction between the "new tadpoles that never transform hosts" and "instant transform technology"
We know that Larian made it so that the Mindflayers of Ryxyg don't want to hold slaves. We also know that the True-Souls are a sort of super soldiers in the service of some mindflayers. If the Mindflayers of Ryxyg don't want to hold slaves anymore then what do they eat? They must hunt or find an alternate means of sustenance. Maybe this is where the pact with the Absolute comes into play.
Posted By: Nyanko Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 29/10/20 10:21 PM
Originally Posted by Vhaldez
Originally Posted by azarhal


Raphael is the entity that makes the most sense to have saved you. He send someone to save you later in the game if you take a certain path with Priestess Gut and fail some rolls (or just don't take them) even if you haven't meet him first.

He needs you.


I was thinking Raphael too but thought it made no sense for him to save you before you even meet him. Going by what we know it is the most likely possibility though.


I would have simply thought it was the tadpole who saved us. The fact we were falling head first to the ground comforted me in this idea. It just wanted to save itself.
Posted By: FrostyFardragon Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 30/10/20 08:31 AM
Originally Posted by Moirnelithe
Originally Posted by rodeolifant

Originally Posted by Vhaldez


Maybe the (totally not a DOS2 repeat) scene at the end of the intro where a mysterious force saves you from dying is supposed to imply the shadow magic being inserted into the tadpole?


I thusfar suspected Gale for being responsible for that, but I have no other reason to think that, besides; "A Wizard did it" - Oh, and tht he mentioned me lying somewhere, so he thought I was dead. He could of course mean, on the ship itself.

I have a suspicion Gale was never on the nautiloid.


Gale is an origin character, which means if you choose to play him he goes through the whole nautaloid prologue sequence, and is the one saved by the mysterious force.
Posted By: FrostyFardragon Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 30/10/20 08:35 AM
Oh, and my theory as to the identity of the Absolute:

Melissan/Ameylissan (Throne of Bhaal)

[url=https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Amelyssan][/url]
Posted By: rodeolifant Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 30/10/20 08:39 AM
Well, we have yet to see how exactly the origin characters will be introduced, it could be different, but due to him being an origin character, he can hardly be introduced in Act 2. Also, currently, Gale outright tells you he was on it when you meet him, and he has a tadpole, just liek the rest of us.

Edit: Wait,Ammelysan the Blackhearted? If there was ever a villain in no need of resurrection, it is her. Sheesh, that would be terrible.
Posted By: FrostyFardragon Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 30/10/20 08:45 AM
Originally Posted by rodeolifant
If there was ever a villain in no need of resurrection, it is her. Sheesh, that would be terrible.


Haya, it's me, Imoen.
Posted By: rodeolifant Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 30/10/20 08:52 AM
Immy would make more sense, truth be told. Regardless of the ending in ToB, Amellysan was completely destroyed with no hope in [pocket plane] Hell of resurrection; whereas Immy was not.

Do you have anything that supports your theory it's Amelyssan?
Posted By: FrostyFardragon Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 30/10/20 09:36 AM
Originally Posted by rodeolifant
Immy would make more sense, truth be told. Regardless of the ending in ToB, Amellysan was completely destroyed with no hope in [pocket plane] Hell of resurrection;

So was Bhaal, and he came back. There is no such thing as an unresurectable villain, just read any comic for proof.


Quote
Do you have anything that supports your theory it's Amelyssan?

Nothing conclusive. Gender. Connection to Bhaal. MO - an over-elaborate charade. Voice acting - BG3's the DM voice is also the voice of the Absolute, just as in BG1 the DM voice was also Saravok. And the DM voice sounds rather similar to Melissan.

So far as I can find out, Melissan was voiced by Heidi Shannon, who also voiced Jalhera. She is no longer voice acting.


Posted By: rodeolifant Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 30/10/20 09:47 AM
Not convinced by Amellysan, but.. . That is actually, a rather clever hook. Not saying it is so, but it would make an incredible amount of sense that the 'voice in our heads' is that of the Absolute. I like that theory!

Edit: YEah, shame. We missed out on Jaheira's dialogue for SoD, too, sadly.
Posted By: Priest Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 30/10/20 03:06 PM
Quote

Gender. Connection to Bhaal. MO - an over-elaborate charade.

First post. Just to jump in here, the Absolute is referred to as both male and female, seemingly dependent on who is talking about the Absolute.
Here are some examples from those who refer to it as male:

"You hear the Absolute's voice, don't you? I will soon - I can already feel Him coming closer!"

"Our gift to the Absolute. May the whole world see His strength!"

"Let the Absolute hear your prayers. Let the blood of His enemies flow over you!"
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 30/10/20 10:49 PM
The goblin conversations as part of the evil "party" seem to be universally referring to the absolute as "him" while in most of the game it is "she".
The narrator in IWD was also the main antagonist. I think that Larian liked the voice actor from Divinity and hired her again. That seems more likely than the "sounds similar to Melissan" thesis.
A page or two back someone posted the big gnoll-drawn absolute symbol. It is close to 100% a fusion of the Symbols of Bhaal and Myrkul (and Bane, being similar to Myrkul in symbolism ) Edit: Bane and Myrkul (Myrkul and Baal similar)
Could the three gods try to fuse into one greater power?
We also know from game files that there will be

a church of the absolute
and a
chapel of many gods
in Baldurs Gate, probably in Act 2
Posted By: rodeolifant Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 30/10/20 11:49 PM
Yes, I like that theory better smile

[Although it's Bane's hand, Skull would be Myrkul and Bhaal]

Also, mind that the game takes place right after the events of Descent into Avernus; wherein also there are cults to the Dead Three. Now, I doubt we'll be facing a deity, or a trio directly, but something representing them? Or one that wants to tap into their power? Fits right into the series, Sarevok, Irenicus, Melissan all trying this very thing.
Posted By: communal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 31/10/20 12:30 AM
Originally Posted by Vhaldez
Thanks to datamining we now know that

the Nightsong recoils in horror when she finds out the tadpole is more powerful than Shar.


With that in mind I am becoming less and less interested in what the Absolute is, as it seems like Larian's fanfiction character now.


It seems a lot more likely that the Nightsong tries to heal you with magic from Shar and it doesn't work than the tadpole literally being more powerful than Shar.
Posted By: N7Greenfire Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 31/10/20 01:52 AM
Originally Posted by communal
Originally Posted by Vhaldez
Thanks to datamining we now know that

the Nightsong recoils in horror when she finds out the tadpole is more powerful than Shar.


With that in mind I am becoming less and less interested in what the Absolute is, as it seems like Larian's fanfiction character now.


It seems a lot more likely that the Nightsong tries to heal you with magic from Shar and it doesn't work than the tadpole literally being more powerful than Shar.

Doesn't the hag say the Tadpole is altered by shadow magic?
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 31/10/20 02:04 AM
She mentions netherese shadow magic, implying a connection to the shadovar. Neteherese wizards in alliance with Shar. Since their city crashed to the east of where the game takes place (as far as I remember) the surviors are struggling to reorganize. They could have something to do with it.
Posted By: N7Greenfire Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 31/10/20 02:20 AM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
She mentions netherese shadow magic, implying a connection to the shadovar. Neteherese wizards in alliance with Shar. Since their city crashed to the east of where the game takes place (as far as I remember) the surviors are struggling to reorganize. They could have something to do with it.

Wasnt there a netherese dude who somehow became a Elderbrain Lich?
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 31/10/20 02:40 AM
Ioulaum. We had some theories about his involvement somewhere in the thread. He is located somewhere in the Northdark, to the northwest of where the games act 1 is located
The shadovar and their city crashed near the underdark mindflayer settlement Ryxyg. We know that Larian asked WotC to change some things about it. Ryxyg is not too far from the northdark.
Posted By: FrostyFardragon Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 31/10/20 08:39 AM
Also, mind that the game takes place right after the events of Descent into Avernus; wherein also there are cults to the Dead Three. Now, I doubt we'll be facing a deity [/quote]
Originally Posted by rodeolifant
Now, I doubt we'll be facing a deity, or a trio directly,


Icewind Dale: Rime of Frostmaiden puts the players directly up against a deity, and it covers a similar level range to BG3 (1 to 10+).

It might be significant the the plot of that adventure involves the recovery of Netherise magic, and takes place before Decent to Avernus, and hence before BG3.
Posted By: Vhaldez Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 31/10/20 10:28 AM
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire
It seems a lot more likely that the Nightsong tries to heal you with magic from Shar and it doesn't work than the tadpole literally being more powerful than Shar.

"That thing in your head must be incredibly powerful to resist a godess" t. Nightsong (Source)
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 31/10/20 12:05 PM
Originally Posted by Vhaldez
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire
It seems a lot more likely that the Nightsong tries to heal you with magic from Shar and it doesn't work than the tadpole literally being more powerful than Shar.

"That thing in your head must be incredibly powerful to resist a godess" t. Nightsong (Source)




Could just be talking as if her powers = Shar's powers like some clerics/priests tend to do. Gods aren't supposed to interfere directly with the mortal world.


I listened to Mizora's line (Wyll's patron). She mention
that Spike is asking about a weapon that was on the Nautiloid.

There is something weird about that. Everyone know there was a weapon on the ship. Nobody seems to know what it is or who as it.

And the game use the term for two different things in-game:
- the mysterious artifacts
- Shadowheart (someone told her she was a "beautiful weapon" in her mind while in the ship).
Posted By: FrostyFardragon Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 31/10/20 12:18 PM
So you are suggesting that
Shadowheart is Nightsong?
Posted By: Neuleser Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 31/10/20 01:18 PM
Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by Vhaldez
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire
It seems a lot more likely that the Nightsong tries to heal you with magic from Shar and it doesn't work than the tadpole literally being more powerful than Shar.

"That thing in your head must be incredibly powerful to resist a godess" t. Nightsong (Source)



Could just be talking as if her powers = Shar's powers like some clerics/priests tend to do. Gods aren't supposed to interfere directly with the mortal world.


I listened to Mizora's line (Wyll's patron). She mention
that Spike is asking about a weapon that was on the Nautiloid.

There is something weird about that. Everyone know there was a weapon on the ship. Nobody seems to know what it is or who as it.

And the game use the term for two different things in-game:
- the mysterious artifacts
- Shadowheart (someone told her she was a "beautiful weapon" in her mind while in the ship).


Another fiend who wants...
Shadowheart's damned box.

Quote
Shadowheart's box seems to scare Raphael and at some point he asks you to give it to him. Shadowheart specific narrator line: "*You think back on Raphael's offer. The devil covets the artefact - but Shar must come first.*"


https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGat...companions_info_from_tag_mining/ga1w00i/
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 31/10/20 03:02 PM
Originally Posted by FrostyFardragon
So you are suggesting that
Shadowheart is Nightsong?


No, I'm not sure how you are getting that idea.

Nightsong is another servant of Shar.
Posted By: FrostyFardragon Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 31/10/20 03:16 PM
Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by FrostyFardragon
So you are suggesting that
Shadowheart is Nightsong?


No, I'm not sure how you are getting that idea.

Nightsong is another servant of Shar.









I thought you where suggesting that the "two different things in-game" where actually the same thing.

There was a powerful weapon the nautaloid - Shadowheart was on the nautaloid - Nightsong is a powerful weapon - Nightsong is a female person - Shadowheart is a female person
Posted By: Yiasemi Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 31/10/20 03:32 PM
Shar is appallingly banal at names. DO NOT invite her to name your kids or pets.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 31/10/20 03:41 PM
Originally Posted by FrostyFardragon
Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by FrostyFardragon
So you are suggesting that
Shadowheart is Nightsong?


No, I'm not sure how you are getting that idea.

Nightsong is another servant of Shar.




I thought you where suggesting that the "two different things in-game" where actually the same thing.

There was a powerful weapon the nautaloid - Shadowheart was on the nautaloid - Nightsong is a powerful weapon - Nightsong is a female person - Shadowheart is a female person


Oh no.

I was talking about the weapon everyone is looking for. It's clearly the artifact for the Githyanki, but it's a bit unclear what is it for the Absolute as their servants seems clueless outside "it was on the ship".

And while the artifact is called a weapon, so was Shadowheart (called a weapon).

So which weapon does the Absolute wants: the artifact or Shadowheart.

Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 31/10/20 07:58 PM
Can someone shine more light on what was going on in Rime of the Frostmaiden in so far as it is relevant for the netherese aspect of BG3?
I think we should limit the use of spoiler tags to things that cannot be learned ingame.

Shadowheart being a weapon would tie in with the brainwashing theory and the strange magic effects she experiences sometimes. Especially in proximity to things related to Selune. Why would the Sharrans decide to force recruit a Selunite for a mission?
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 31/10/20 09:06 PM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
Can someone shine more light on what was going on in Rime of the Frostmaiden in so far as it is relevant for the netherese aspect of BG3?
I think we should limit the use of spoiler tags to things that cannot be learned ingame.

Shadowheart being a weapon would tie in with the brainwashing theory and the strange magic effects she experiences sometimes. Especially in proximity to things related to Selune. Why would the Sharrans decide to force recruit a Selunite for a mission?


Rime of the Frostmaiden: there is a Netherese floating city that crashed centuries ago (when Netheril was destroyed) over Icewind Dale that is now under the ice. I don't think it has much to do with BG3 personally, as it pre-date the Shadovar (the Netherese who use shadow magic).

Back to Shadowheart
I very much doubt she's a brainwashed Selûnite thanks to datamining. She likes darkness and the Underdark way too much. I'm starting to think she has Shadar-Kai ancestry actually.

She doesn't experience anything near related Selûne things (no reaction at the untouched shrine in the Owlbear cave), only things that shows/mention the passage of the Dark Justiciars. People aren't paying attention to the details here.

Her personal quest at the end of the EA is called Chosen of Shar and Nigthsong calls Ketheric a Chosen of Shar. Ketheric was the leader of those Dark Justiciars. It all look connected to me...and not really relevant to the Absolute. Unless the Absolute and Ketheric are acquainted...



Posted By: N7Greenfire Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 31/10/20 09:20 PM
Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by FrostyFardragon
Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by FrostyFardragon
So you are suggesting that
Shadowheart is Nightsong?


No, I'm not sure how you are getting that idea.

Nightsong is another servant of Shar.




I thought you where suggesting that the "two different things in-game" where actually the same thing.

There was a powerful weapon the nautaloid - Shadowheart was on the nautaloid - Nightsong is a powerful weapon - Nightsong is a female person - Shadowheart is a female person


Oh no.

I was talking about the weapon everyone is looking for. It's clearly the artifact for the Githyanki, but it's a bit unclear what is it for the Absolute as their servants seems clueless outside "it was on the ship".

And while the artifact is called a weapon, so was Shadowheart (called a weapon).

So which weapon does the Absolute wants: the artifact or Shadowheart.





What if its both and the gith artifact holds her real memory/powers
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 31/10/20 09:57 PM
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire

What if its both and the gith artifact holds her real memory/powers


It doesn't.

Take a look to know what is the artifact:
the artifact is a prison for a Githyanki General.
Posted By: N7Greenfire Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 31/10/20 10:10 PM
Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire

What if its both and the gith artifact holds her real memory/powers


It doesn't.

Take a look to know what is the artifact:
the artifact is a prison for a Githyanki General.


Whose the source though? The gith grunts?
Posted By: KillerRabbit Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 31/10/20 10:17 PM
Powerful datamining spells.
Posted By: Priest Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 01/11/20 12:40 AM
Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire

What if its both and the gith artifact holds her real memory/powers


It doesn't.

Take a look to know what is the artifact:
the artifact is a prison for a Githyanki General.



Which datamining thread confirms that the artefact is a prison for a githyanki general? (Gith herself?)
I know there was a lot of speculation about it being the infernal puzzle box containing the contract between Tiamat and Gith.

Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 01/11/20 01:57 AM
Originally Posted by Priest
Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire

What if its both and the gith artifact holds her real memory/powers


It doesn't.

Take a look to know what is the artifact:
the artifact is a prison for a Githyanki General.



Which datamining thread confirms that the artefact is a prison for a githyanki general? (Gith herself?)
I know there was a lot of speculation about it being the infernal puzzle box containing the contract between Tiamat and Gith.



Reddit, someone posted the script notes for her scene when you don't recruit her and she show up at the camp. It mention what it is and it really should be under spoiler tag for this thread. This is not in-game information.
Posted By: Cyka Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 01/11/20 04:59 AM
If the absolute turns out to be exactly like The God King - a bland evil character with simple motivations that is he wants to destroy/enslave the world and will one shot you through dialogue, i think im gonna puke.
Posted By: Priest Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 01/11/20 07:52 PM
Quote

Take a look to know what is the artifact:
the artifact is a prison for a Githyanki General.

...

Reddit, someone posted the script notes for her scene when you don't recruit her and she show up at the camp..


Ok, I've added a spoiler tag to my post. Can you please link me this thread for what the artefact actually is?
Posted By: C_Corday Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 01/11/20 08:26 PM
In DND mythology their is the concept of the Illithid adversary.

When an Illithid undergoes ceremorphosis, it can occasionally take on some elements of the absorbed host creature's former mind, such as mannerisms. This typically manifests as a minor personality feature, such as a nervous habit or reaction (e.g., nail-biting or tapping one's foot), although the process that determines the type and number of traits so inherited appears to be stochastic. Some adult Illithids have even been known to hum a tune that its host knew in life. Usually, when a mind flayer inherits a trait like this, it keeps it a closely guarded secret, because, were its peers to learn of it, the Illithid in question would most likely be killed. This is due to an Illithid legend of a being called the "Adversary". The legend holds that, eventually, an Illithid larva that undergoes ceremorphosis will take on the host's personality and memory in its entirety. This Adversary would, mind and soul, still be the host, but with all the inherent abilities of an Illithid.

I think this is what the absolute is.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 01/11/20 08:54 PM
Originally Posted by Priest
Quote

Take a look to know what is the artifact:
the artifact is a prison for a Githyanki General.

...

Reddit, someone posted the script notes for her scene when you don't recruit her and she show up at the camp..


Ok, I've added a spoiler tag to my post. Can you please link me this thread for what the artefact actually is?


Looks like it was posted at the time the mods on Reddit were deleting datamining stuff. Google showed trace of it on 4chan, but I'm not going to link to that place.

edit: I found the text myself in the engine using the extractor, posted it in the datamining thread here.
Posted By: Sharp Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 01/11/20 09:04 PM
Interesting side note,
either Minthara does not have a tadpole, or there is an oversight. The Warlock Tadpole ability allows you to teleport to anyone who has a Tadpole. This is implemented almost completely comprehensively, you can teleport to all friendly companions, as well as enemies that have a tadpole. All of the "True Soul" Goblins can be teleported to, the Flind can be teleported to. The dead NPC you run into just outside of the druid camp can be teleported to. It seems unusual for them to so comprehensively implement a mechanic, going so far as allowing you to teleport to corpses of NPCs that possessed a tadpole, but not give it to the "Cleric of the Absolute."

If this mechanic is implemented as comprehensively as I think it is, you can use this warlock power to test NPCs for tadpoles without knowing anything about the NPC, because if they have one, you can teleport to them. Similarly, you can figure out who is branded by the Absolute by using the "Shield of the Absolute" power on NPCs. If they have a mark, they will not be afflicted with Bane, if they do have a mark, they are afflicted by bane. Its an interesting subtle gameplay mechanic that I hope they expand upon more as a "meta" method to learn information about NPCs.
Posted By: 0Muttley0 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 01/11/20 09:50 PM
I'm pretty sure The Absolute is an Elder Brain.
Posted By: Tuv Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 02/11/20 04:54 AM
Originally Posted by Sharp
Interesting side note,
The dead NPC you run into just outside of the druid camp can be teleported to.


Can you teleport to the one where the tadpole leaves and you get the choice to crush it? Is there a before/after? Quite the detail!
Posted By: N7Greenfire Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 02/11/20 05:54 AM
Originally Posted by Sharp
Interesting side note,
either Minthara does not have a tadpole, or there is an oversight. The Warlock Tadpole ability allows you to teleport to anyone who has a Tadpole. This is implemented almost completely comprehensively, you can teleport to all friendly companions, as well as enemies that have a tadpole. All of the "True Soul" Goblins can be teleported to, the Flind can be teleported to. The dead NPC you run into just outside of the druid camp can be teleported to. It seems unusual for them to so comprehensively implement a mechanic, going so far as allowing you to teleport to corpses of NPCs that possessed a tadpole, but not give it to the "Cleric of the Absolute."

If this mechanic is implemented as comprehensively as I think it is, you can use this warlock power to test NPCs for tadpoles without knowing anything about the NPC, because if they have one, you can teleport to them. Similarly, you can figure out who is branded by the Absolute by using the "Shield of the Absolute" power on NPCs. If they have a mark, they will not be afflicted with Bane, if they do have a mark, they are afflicted by bane. Its an interesting subtle gameplay mechanic that I hope they expand upon more as a "meta" method to learn information about NPCs.



Well she seems to be a fully devout cleric, and iirc a tadpole never spawn from her when i've killed her, maybe she's intentionally kept that way to make for a better infiltrator. Ethel could sus out something was up so any other moderately powerful being should be able to the moment they meet a host as well.
Posted By: Sharp Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 02/11/20 10:49 AM
Originally Posted by Tuv
Originally Posted by Sharp
Interesting side note,
The dead NPC you run into just outside of the druid camp can be teleported to.


Can you teleport to the one where the tadpole leaves and you get the choice to crush it? Is there a before/after? Quite the detail!

You can yes. This does not change after the Tadpole is gone.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 03/11/20 02:02 AM
Regarding the adversary theory:
Could a tadpole infect a mortal former god?

Regarding Minthara:
Her not having a tadpole would make the lack of an option to tell her about having one much less unsatisfactory. The question remains: Why isn't she a True Soul?
Becoming one does seem to be very important for all the absolute novices

You can find a book about the crashed netherese city Nhalloth in the arcane tower. Looters and Shadovar have been searching it while feeling that someone is watching them.
The see of Fallen Stars is not too distant from the Act 1 location. About equal distance to Baldurs Gate in the east direction.
We are also really close to fort morninglord. The paladins there disappeared and stone turned black.
Posted By: Firesnakearies Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 03/11/20 02:10 AM
Vlaakith.
Posted By: N7Greenfire Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 03/11/20 03:16 AM
I'm thinking the whole true soul being chosen thing is bs, especially if Minthara doesn't have a tadpole.

Sofar every true soul we have seen has essentially been a battlefield commander, with Minthara pulling the strings.

Maybe the True Souls are just ment to be Leutenants led by a Cleric of the Absolute which lacks a tadpole, making it easyer for them to sneak in and convert a populace.

Gut for example refuses to believe she has a tadpole and is driven to kill you in secret if you tell her
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 05/11/20 02:57 AM
What makes you think Vlaakith could have something to do with it? Faerun is quite far from the Gith.

The novices say that the True Souls are meant to rule in the future. Maybe that is just propaganda but it seems to be an important element of the religion.
Posted By: Priest Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 05/11/20 05:56 AM
This is one of my current theories. It's quite a lot different in nature to the other ones in this thread, but here it goes:

I believe that "the Absolute" is not a single entity in the way others are thinking, i.e., it is not Vlaakith, Tiamat, Lolth, etc. It is thus possible that "the Absolute" is merely a construct / proxy.

There are a few reasons why I believe this is so:

First of all, we can see that characters have different views of what the Absolute actually is. Some believe "the Absolute" to be female, some characters believe "the Absolute" is male, whilst the mind flayer that captured us relates that: "You see other mind flayers arranged in a serene circle. Absolute unity. Absolute power", upon casting speak with dead on it. Perhaps it is because the thought of the Absolute being a female to a drow priestess from Menzoberranzan is more convincing or pleasing, as is a war-like male deity to certain goblins.

Secondly, I think it is likely that the Dead Three are behind what the Absolute "is", or somehow they are manifesting what the Absolute is in the minds of others. They have potentially done this via manipulating mind flayer tadpoles with Netherese magic in order to keep them in stasis. Thus, this enables the mind flayer tadpoles to continue projecting some sort of internal voice to the True Souls, convincing them to carry out its will telepathically. I think True Souls are those who have mind flayer tadpoles inside of them (but are unaware). Thus, the player characters aren't technically True Souls, and thus the other True Souls (Gut, Dror Ragzlin, Minthara, etc) mistake them for being True Souls. Again, they think they are communicating with "the Absolute", a brand new deity, but that is far from the truth, as "the Absolute" is merely a proxy, a voice in their heads from another source. By proxy, "the Absolute" knows that we know that we carry the tadpole, unlike the "other" True Souls. This is why High Priestess Gut and Minthara may have attempted to kill us: "The Absolute" must have demanded it.

---End of basic theory for "What is the Absolute"---

Further speculation:

The Absolute must, of course, have something to do with the mind flayers. Perhaps the Dead Three corrupted or gained control of an elder brain? This, in turn, controls the mind flayers to capture others (drow, goblins, etc), and inject them with "modified" tadpoles. With the modified tadpoles in their heads (preventing ceremorphosis), the voice ("the Absolute" proxy) commands them to carry out the will of the Dead Three. Considering the domains and portfolios of the Dead Three, they would certainly revel in the slaughter of others, such as the druids of the Emerald Grove. "Curved drow blades, crude goblin torches, gnoll teeth dripping blood" - what better force to wreak havoc and carnage with? Mayhap the Dead Three are trying to accrue followers to completely overtake others' (Shar's) portfolio / domain. As the Dead Three are somewhat powerless (potentially lesser deities/demigods) compared to their past glories, perhaps this is their bid to fully regain their divinity, with much slaughter in the process?
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 12:27 AM
Originally Posted by Priest


First of all, we can see that characters have different views of what the Absolute actually is. Some believe "the Absolute" to be female, some characters believe "the Absolute" is male, whilst the mind flayer that captured us relates that: "You see other mind flayers arranged in a serene circle. Absolute unity. Absolute power", upon casting speak with dead on it. Perhaps it is because the thought of the Absolute being a female to a drow priestess from Menzoberranzan is more convincing or pleasing, as is a war-like male deity to certain goblins.

That could be the case. It is also imaginable that the developers changed plan. I think some goblins refer to the absolute as she.
There is an unused? dialogue entry about a vision that reveals

that only a priest of the dead three can remove the tadpole

The involement of the dead three is a given. Their symbols are the symbols of the absolute. It is curious that characters well learned in the lore do not point that out. Surely a cleric of Shar would also recognize the symbols of Bane and Myrkul?

Someone in the datamine thread found out that

using the tadpole a lot can give true-souls power over the character.
I guess that this confirms that they are controlled from afar by the Absolute.


Regarding the Minthara True-Soul speculation:
There is an intimidation check for Minthara. "You wouldn't dare kill me - I'm a True Soul, same as you.
She answers "That might be. But you have not been truly tested yet"
That is not a full confirmation. Why would the absolute not use the control over all its clerics?
Posted By: Firesnakearies Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 01:44 AM
Who specifically refers to the Absolute as "he"?
Posted By: Priest Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 02:44 AM
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Who specifically refers to the Absolute as "he"?


Multiple goblins, particularly after a successful raid on the grove. Talk to those in your camp during the celebrations. Here are some examples I picked up:

"You hear the Absolute's voice, don't you? I will soon - I can already feel Him coming closer!"

"Our gift to the Absolute. May the whole world see His strength!"

"Let the Absolute hear your prayers. Let the blood of His enemies flow over you!"

There are other examples, even in descriptions of items, instead of said by characters.
For example, hover over the "Absolute Protection" ability of the Absolute's Warboard. It says:

"The Absolute shields his faithful. Invoke His name to increase your Armour Class by 2."
Posted By: KillerRabbit Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 04:16 AM
Interesting the gendered examples you came up with. My guess is that it was a he and then got changed? Both Gut and the Hobgoblin leader insist the absolute is a 'she'.
Posted By: KillerRabbit Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 04:24 AM
Here's another far out possibility @Priest. Far out there, not very likely but I'm just spitballing.

Perhaps the absolute, like all mind flayers doesn't have a gender. Instead the absolute is a god like Angharradh that is made up parts of other gods? The dead three, Ilsensine and Shar?

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Angharradh
Posted By: Firesnakearies Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 05:40 AM
I think, now, that the Absolute is just appearing to everyone in whatever form that person wants to see. Like in the dreams. If someone would be more swayed by worshipping a goddess, the Absolute is "female", and if they'd be more swayed by a male god, then the Absolute is "male".
Posted By: KillerRabbit Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 05:50 AM
Yeah, I'm thinking that right. I still think the question of what god / consortium of gods is behind it remains. So we have the symbol of the dead three, shadow magic which means Shar and we have mind flayers which would mean Illsensine or Ioulum.

It's far out that but we have one 'triune' goddess already -- perhaps the mind flayer circle that we saw was really the form of the consortium?
Posted By: ash elemental Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 06:39 AM
It could be that they are continuing from BG1 and BG2, not the story itself, but the antagonist and their motivation. In BG1 the antagonist wants to achieve godhood by orchestrating a grand war (akin to mass murder), in BG2 he uses magic rituals and steals the soul of a godchild for the same purpose, and even ToB, the final part of the saga, it's about taking a dead god's divinity for yourself.

It might be that the absolute is someone who wants to ascend to godhood and uses tadpoles to create and mind control an army of fanatical believers.
Posted By: N7Greenfire Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 06:41 AM
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Yeah, I'm thinking that right. I still think the question of what god / consortium of gods is behind it remains. So we have the symbol of the dead three, shadow magic which means Shar and we have mind flayers which would mean Illsensine or Ioulum.

It's far out that but we have one 'triune' goddess already -- perhaps the mind flayer circle that we saw was really the form of the consortium?

Aside from the symbols of the dread three though what other evidence is there for their involvement?

Shar has shown a crazy amount of involvment, and his seemingly directly involved with the tadpoles, Moonrise towers also seems covered in Shar paraphernalia, and a Shar cleric was given a special place on the Nautiloid.

We also know Nautiloids shoudent be around anymore.

If we want to get tinfoily we also have Gale, who's lover could have been Shar, manipulating him,, instead of Mystra.
Posted By: alt-thea Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 07:06 AM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog



Someone in the datamine thread found out that

using the tadpole a lot can give true-souls power over the character.
I guess that this confirms that they are controlled from afar by the Absolute.



yeah, that was me
there are few more interesting Absolute-related bits in conversation with that npc

by NPC I mean True soul Nere, we get to him after crossing the lake
If you are female drow, that this is his reaction to 'I don't take orders from male'
We are no longer under Lolth's tyranny, sister. I take orders directly from the Disciple. You will do as I say.

It sure seems Lolth has nothing to do with Absolute cult, and yet there are a lot of drow on somewhat high ranks. The Disciple is called Z'rell (she's in Moonrise Towers) which also sounds like a drow name

And doesn't look like they care about Shar as well
This heretical ruin once belonged to an old Shar cult. It spooks the rothé. The duergar think it's cursed.
But it shouldn't pose a problem for the likes of you and I. Excavate it, as far as you can.


Although the Shadow Curse (caused by Ketheric if I'm not mistaken) overland is somewhat beneficial to them (or maybe that's just for drow)
While the curse plaguing the land above protects us, it also slows us down. Securing an underground passage would aid us tremendously.
So they need the underground passage to Moonrise towers because it's will be faster
Posted By: Firesnakearies Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 07:08 AM
This press kit image directly says the Dead Three are the ones "hatching the plot".

https://preview.redd.it/f2el4jj0r6b...1dd9358c3c44c94bd84ef7b1ab69385b8ec31b8c
Posted By: KillerRabbit Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 07:09 AM
I'm also wearing one of those Gale is working for Shar tin foil hats.

But besides the symbol we do have a chosen of Jergal hanging out in our camp (or perhaps an old avatar). And clerics of the dead three get a dismissive line from the skeleton telling them he will serve but isn't really on side with their god. Jergal has always worked to subtly undermine the dead three and he could be doing so again.

But yes, all signs point to Shar and Shar is often the master mind in the shadows -- but is she absolute, is she aiding the absolute or is she part of the absolute?

Here's another far out possibility -- that book in the talkative skeleton's crypt takes multiple checks to read and it has the names of all the gods that have been resurrected. Shar could be promoting someone who has been dead a very long time but is off our radar right now.

Edit: Didn't see post above. Oh, yeah, and Larian has said so. Damn you evidence! Must you always get in the way of good theory?
Posted By: N7Greenfire Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 07:14 AM
Originally Posted by alt-thea
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog



Someone in the datamine thread found out that

using the tadpole a lot can give true-souls power over the character.
I guess that this confirms that they are controlled from afar by the Absolute.



yeah, that was me
there are few more interesting Absolute-related bits in conversation with that npc

by NPC I mean True soul Nere, we get to him after crossing the lake
If you are female drow, that this is his reaction to 'I don't take orders from male'
We are no longer under Lolth's tyranny, sister. I take orders directly from the Disciple. You will do as I say.

It sure seems Lolth has nothing to do with Absolute cult, and yet there are a lot of drow on somewhat high ranks. The Disciple is called Z'rell (she's in Moonrise Towers) which also sounds like a drow name

And doesn't look like they care about Shar as well
This heretical ruin once belonged to an old Shar cult. It spooks the rothé. The duergar think it's cursed.
But it shouldn't pose a problem for the likes of you and I. Excavate it, as far as you can.


Although the Shadow Curse (caused by Ketheric if I'm not mistaken) overland is somewhat beneficial to them (or maybe that's just for drow)
While the curse plaguing the land above protects us, it also slows us down. Securing an underground passage would aid us tremendously.
So they need the underground passage to Moonrise towers because it's will be faster


Yeah but so far none of the True Souls have even known about their tadpoles, much less that they are altered by shadow magic.

Also how many dieity's are capable of preserving a Nautiloid?
Posted By: ash elemental Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 07:18 AM
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
I'm also wearing one of those Gale is working for Shar tin foil hats.

But besides the symbol we do have a chosen of Jergal hanging out in our camp (or perhaps an old avatar). And clerics of the dead three get a dismissive line from the skeleton telling them he will serve but isn't really on side with their god. Jergal has always worked to subtly undermine the dead three and he could be doing so again.

But yes, all signs point to Shar and Shar is often the master mind in the shadows -- but is she absolute, is she aiding the absolute or is she part of the absolute?

It seems to me rather the opposite: that Shar is the enemy of the absolute. My guess

It's Shar who tampered with the tadpole using shadow magic and this magic is what shields your character from the absolute's powers. Which is why the goblin priestess, once she sees "the shadows" in your mind when you talk to her, tries to kill you. The absolute cannot access your mind directly; it can only "see you" through the goblin (since it seems to have a direct mind link to its followers) and gives the order to kill you once they notice the netherese magic on the tadpole. Which also implies that everytime you use the tadpole powers you weaken the shadow magic protecting your mind, and that is why the absolute can now invade your dreams.
Posted By: ash elemental Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 07:23 AM
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire


Yeah but so far none of the True Souls have even known about their tadpoles, much less that they are altered by shadow magic.


Is there any information in the game that the 'true souls' tadpoles got tampered with shadow magic too? Because my impression was it's only those who were on that ship.
Posted By: alt-thea Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 07:25 AM
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire
[quote=alt-thea][quote=ArmouredHedgehog]

Yeah but so far none of the True Souls have even known about their tadpoles, much less that they are altered by shadow magic.

Also how many dieity's are capable of preserving a Nautiloid?



I'd say the high-ranks would be aware of that. We only met low-ranking ones, except Minthara who doesn't even have a tadpole. And they are putting tadpoles into people in Moonrise towers, so the Disciple is probably overseeing that
Do we know for sure that shadow curse is also netherese magic? Our tadpoles are altered by netherese

Quote
It seems to me rather the opposite: that Shar is the enemy of the absolute.

I'm also leaning to this after reading conversation with Nere.
Posted By: KillerRabbit Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 07:46 AM
Originally Posted by ash elemental

It seems to me rather the opposite: that Shar is the enemy of the absolute. My guess

It's Shar who tampered with the tadpole using shadow magic and this magic is what shields your character from the absolute's powers. Which is why the goblin priestess, once she sees "the shadows" in your mind when you talk to her, tries to kill you. The absolute cannot access your mind directly; it can only "see you" through the goblin (since it seems to have a direct mind link to its followers) and gives the order to kill you once they notice the netherese magic on the tadpole. Which also implies that everytime you use the tadpole powers you weaken the shadow magic protecting your mind, and that is why the absolute can now invade your dreams.


Nice! And that would explain why she hasn't hindered up until now. Can't wait to see which theory is correct . . .
Posted By: Nyanko Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 08:56 AM
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Originally Posted by ash elemental

It seems to me rather the opposite: that Shar is the enemy of the absolute. My guess

It's Shar who tampered with the tadpole using shadow magic and this magic is what shields your character from the absolute's powers. Which is why the goblin priestess, once she sees "the shadows" in your mind when you talk to her, tries to kill you. The absolute cannot access your mind directly; it can only "see you" through the goblin (since it seems to have a direct mind link to its followers) and gives the order to kill you once they notice the netherese magic on the tadpole. Which also implies that everytime you use the tadpole powers you weaken the shadow magic protecting your mind, and that is why the absolute can now invade your dreams.


Nice! And that would explain why she hasn't hindered up until now. Can't wait to see which theory is correct . . .


Interesting theory. It would explain the magic phenomenon saving you right before you hit the ground on the beach and the fact Shadowheart always tries to get to you compared to the other companions who seem to be lost forever if you don't recruit them the first time.
Posted By: FrostyFardragon Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 09:28 AM
Yes, this seems to make sense:

"The Absolute" is a tool of the Dead Three, created with Netherlise magic from a an elder brain, and is producing their altered mind control tadpoles. When they have spread far enough the dead three will activate the tadpoles and take over the world with an army of mind flayer puppets.

Shar is the main opposition to the Dead Three, the other gods being bound from interfering by Io's Prime Directive. The protagonist is Shar's chosen instrument, she is the one blocking the tadpole's mind control, and who stopped the protagonist falling to their death. This means that all the origin characters (including Custom) are Shar's chosen, not just Shadowheart. The "DM voice" isn't the Absolute, it's Shar.

It's also occurs to me that this being BG3, (possibly former) Sharian cleric Viconia DeVir is likely involved in some way. Rumours of her demise are greatly exaggerated.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 10:19 AM
Originally Posted by ash elemental
My guess

It's Shar who tampered with the tadpole using shadow magic and this magic is what shields your character from the absolute's powers. Which is why the goblin priestess, once she sees "the shadows" in your mind when you talk to her, tries to kill you.

I think the explanation is simply that she notices something inside the person she is talking with. She is not aware of having a tadpole so she does not know what it could be and calls it a shadow.
I think there was something mentioned about netherese shadow magic. That would point to Shadovar and Shar but she seems to be opposed to the absolute.
As for Shar

Dialogue for Act 2 reveals that Astarion is a follower of Shar. I don't see a connection between Lae'zel and Shar.
Posted By: Nyanko Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 10:40 AM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog


Dialogue for Act 2 reveals that Astarion is a follower of Shar. I don't see a connection between Lae'zel and Shar.



Well, there is, through the gith artifact.
Posted By: ash elemental Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 11:10 AM
O
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog

I think the explanation is simply that she notices something inside the person she is talking with. She is not aware of having a tadpole so she does not know what it could be and calls it a shadow.

That is the point. Consider that

the priestess' attitude towards your character only changes after you attempt the mind meld. Before you are part of the flock, after she tries to dispose of you, claiming to do the absolute's will. At this point it's clear that the absolute doesn't have free access to your mind like with the true souls. If you don't use tadpole powers, it won't even have access to your dreams.


Shar is powerful enough to weave a shadow shield strong enough to shield you even from a psionic pseudodeity.
Posted By: Rhobar121 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 12:03 PM
Originally Posted by ash elemental
O
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog

I think the explanation is simply that she notices something inside the person she is talking with. She is not aware of having a tadpole so she does not know what it could be and calls it a shadow.

That is the point. Consider that

the priestess' attitude towards your character only changes after you attempt the mind meld. Before you are part of the flock, after she tries to dispose of you, claiming to do the absolute's will. At this point it's clear that the absolute doesn't have free access to your mind like with the true souls. If you don't use tadpole powers, it won't even have access to your dreams.


Shar is powerful enough to weave a shadow shield strong enough to shield you even from a psionic pseudodeity.


From some dialogue it seems that the tadpole is powerful enough to resist Shar's power. So I rather doubt that this is her work.
Posted By: Verte Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 12:12 PM
Originally Posted by ash elemental
O
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog

I think the explanation is simply that she notices something inside the person she is talking with. She is not aware of having a tadpole so she does not know what it could be and calls it a shadow.

That is the point. Consider that

the priestess' attitude towards your character only changes after you attempt the mind meld. Before you are part of the flock, after she tries to dispose of you, claiming to do the absolute's will. At this point it's clear that the absolute doesn't have free access to your mind like with the true souls. If you don't use tadpole powers, it won't even have access to your dreams.


Shar is powerful enough to weave a shadow shield strong enough to shield you even from a psionic pseudodeity.


It could be her (Minthara's) own agenda to get rid of us, she doesn't like to share... memories and victories.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 01:10 PM
I like this Shar theory (of her "helping" the party). I had a similar theory, as her being against the Absolute is the only reasons I can see her going after
the weapon the Absolute wants. There are indication in the game files that a dead sharran cleric should be on the Nautiloid in the tutorial (dialogue related to it is still in temporary stage) and that would explain why Shadowheart was in a special pod, she wasn't picked up randomly. The Sharrans might have corrupted the tadpoles before you got them too.

But at the same time, there are indications that the BG Coven sent people in that mission to get all of them killed, but I'm starting to think that the BG Shar Coven was compromised by Absolute moles at the same time...


Originally Posted by Rhobar121
Originally Posted by ash elemental
Shar is powerful enough to weave a shadow shield strong enough to shield you even from a psionic pseudodeity.


From some dialogue it seems that the tadpole is powerful enough to resist Shar's power. So I rather doubt that this is her work.



That dialogue could be conditional to using the tadpole.

And it's not exactly resisting Shar's power, it's resisting the Nightsong's soul sucking kiss. Kiss that might also be conditional. If Shar is responsible for shielding the tadpole, then she would want you dead if you used it as well.
Posted By: Vamathi Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 01:37 PM
Absolute is
Cyric
I think. He will have a way of coming back to realms, if you wreck enough havoc with your choices maybe?
A lot of encounters that are dribbled in EA seem to be odd; because the people are shadow people that don't completely remember their memories and their time is warped,
I think each of your companions will turn out to be a reincarnation or avatar of god/s and the player character could represents Mystra, but it could also continue being convoluded and we will see a lot of ties with our character's "needs" and past of some evil gods.


The big villain is the voice in your head, whoever that is.
Vampiric illithid DM *coughs*
Posted By: Priest Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 01:38 PM
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Here's another far out possibility @Priest. Far out there, not very likely but I'm just spitballing.

Perhaps the absolute, like all mind flayers doesn't have a gender. Instead the absolute is a god like Angharradh that is made up parts of other gods? The dead three, Ilsensine and Shar?

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Angharradh


I don't think that the Absolute is a combination of the Dead Three, Ilsensine, and Shar. I can't see what Ilsensine and Shar would have to gain from working with three now-lowly deities.
Posted By: Nyanko Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 01:38 PM
Originally Posted by azarhal


That dialogue could be conditional to using the tadpole.

And it's not exactly resisting Shar's power, it's resisting the Nightsong's soul sucking kiss. Kiss that might also be conditional. If Shar is responsible for shielding the tadpole, then she would want you dead if you used it as well.




Makes sense, I agree. An evil goddess protecting the character from another evil entity. Overused concept, but why not.

I hope at some point though, through Gale for instance, Mystra will have a role to play to help Good leaning characters in this fight. Selune too.
Posted By: Priest Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 01:42 PM
Originally Posted by Vamathi
Absolute is
Cyric
I think.


Why would Cyric be represented by the symbols of the Dead Three and be referred to as both male and female?
Posted By: BuckettMonkey Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 02:11 PM
Originally Posted by Priest
Originally Posted by Vamathi
Absolute is
Cyric
I think.


Why would Cyric be represented by the symbols of the Dead Three and be referred to as both male and female?

I personally do not support this theory.
But it can be justified.
That is, the Cyric is a mad deity, and his domain is deception. It is possible that he tricked the goblins, drow and other followers into posing as both a woman and a man.
The use of the symbols of the Dead Three can be justified by the fact that initially Cyric usurped their orbs when he killed Leira and making himself the God of Deception, Murder, Strife, the Dead.
By the way, it seems strange to me that Cyric is not on the list of deities. Perhaps this is due to the fact that the game is in EA, but it's still weird.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 02:17 PM
Originally Posted by Nyanko
Originally Posted by azarhal


That dialogue could be conditional to using the tadpole.

And it's not exactly resisting Shar's power, it's resisting the Nightsong's soul sucking kiss. Kiss that might also be conditional. If Shar is responsible for shielding the tadpole, then she would want you dead if you used it as well.



Makes sense, I agree. An evil goddess protecting the character from another evil entity. Overused concept, but why not.

I hope at some point though, through Gale for instance, Mystra will have a role to play to help Good leaning characters in this fight. Selune too.


Going by the description of what is in Gale's chest,
he's more in Shar's palm than Mystra's right now...


Saying that, before the end of Act 1, you can probably piss off Shar
without using the tadpole or working for the Absolute. As you can remove the shadow curse which Shar wants to keep up and destroy the remains of her power base in the region.
Posted By: Vamathi Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 02:29 PM
Originally Posted by BuckettMonkey
I personally do not support this theory.
But it can be justified.
That is, the Cyric is a mad deity, and his domain is deception. It is possible that he tricked the goblins, drow and other followers into posing as both a woman and a man.
The use of the symbols of the Dead Three can be justified by the fact that initially Cyric usurped their orbs when he killed Leira and making himself the God of Deception, Murder, Strife, the Dead.
By the way, it seems strange to me that Cyric is not on the list of deities. Perhaps this is due to the fact that the game is in EA, but it's still weird.

Yes, this where I started; but I am also now under impression that I understand what Larian and WotC wanna do... and how it's going to meld into current 5e handbooks.
Cyric was supposed to rise in power around the time of BG3 and it's not adressed in the books so far. I assume it's going to be addressed in the game. Specifically if you don't keep certain someone in check.
Posted By: Priest Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 02:41 PM
Originally Posted by BuckettMonkey
Originally Posted by Priest
Originally Posted by Vamathi
Absolute is
Cyric
I think.


Why would Cyric be represented by the symbols of the Dead Three and be referred to as both male and female?

I personally do not support this theory.
But it can be justified.
That is, the Cyric is a mad deity, and his domain is deception. It is possible that he tricked the goblins, drow and other followers into posing as both a woman and a man.
The use of the symbols of the Dead Three can be justified by the fact that initially Cyric usurped their orbs when he killed Leira and making himself the God of Deception, Murder, Strife, the Dead.
By the way, it seems strange to me that Cyric is not on the list of deities. Perhaps this is due to the fact that the game is in EA, but it's still weird.


We know that the Dead Three are generally behind the crisis going on in the Western Heartlands.
From the press kit: "we find ourselves on the center stage of a complot hatched by none other than the Dead Three: the gods of Murder, Tyranny, and Death."
I don't see how both the Dead Three and Cyric could fit in with this. Perhaps one or the other, but not both parties.

In addition, the divine hooded skeleton in the camp is very likely to be Jergal, due to the several dialogue options explored. Considering Jergal allowed Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul to assume his power, it is possible he has been brought back to atone for his crime. Perhaps Ao, or lawful deity by the command of Ao, say Helm, is responsible for this, and has set the hooded skeleton on his divine mission. This would also explain why Jergal is hanging around the camp assisting the PCs.
Posted By: BuckettMonkey Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 02:45 PM
Originally Posted by Vamathi
Originally Posted by BuckettMonkey
I personally do not support this theory.
But it can be justified.
That is, the Cyric is a mad deity, and his domain is deception. It is possible that he tricked the goblins, drow and other followers into posing as both a woman and a man.
The use of the symbols of the Dead Three can be justified by the fact that initially Cyric usurped their orbs when he killed Leira and making himself the God of Deception, Murder, Strife, the Dead.
By the way, it seems strange to me that Cyric is not on the list of deities. Perhaps this is due to the fact that the game is in EA, but it's still weird.

Yes, this where I started; but I am also now under impression that I understand what Larian and WotC wanna do... and how it's going to meld into current 5e handbooks.
Cyric was supposed to rise in power around the time of BG3 and it's not adressed in the books so far. I assume it's going to be addressed in the game. Specifically if you don't keep certain someone in check.



Sorry, I didn't really understand you.
You mean the very ascent of Cyric as God? It's just that the rise of Cyric itself happened 100 years before the start of the game.
In BG 3 (late-15th DR) Cyric is already God. More interestingly, he is imprisoned. After killing Mystra, he was imprisoned in the Supreme Throne for 1000 years.
This, coupled with the prohibition of the Church of Cyric, may explain why he is posing as the Absolute.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 02:57 PM
Originally Posted by Priest
Originally Posted by BuckettMonkey
Originally Posted by Priest
Originally Posted by Vamathi
Absolute is
Cyric
I think.


Why would Cyric be represented by the symbols of the Dead Three and be referred to as both male and female?

I personally do not support this theory.
But it can be justified.
That is, the Cyric is a mad deity, and his domain is deception. It is possible that he tricked the goblins, drow and other followers into posing as both a woman and a man.
The use of the symbols of the Dead Three can be justified by the fact that initially Cyric usurped their orbs when he killed Leira and making himself the God of Deception, Murder, Strife, the Dead.
By the way, it seems strange to me that Cyric is not on the list of deities. Perhaps this is due to the fact that the game is in EA, but it's still weird.


We know that the Dead Three are generally behind the crisis going on in the Western Heartlands.
From the press kit: "we find ourselves on the center stage of a complot hatched by none other than the Dead Three: the gods of Murder, Tyranny, and Death."
I don't see how both the Dead Three and Cyric could fit in with this. Perhaps one or the other, but not both parties.

In addition, the divine hooded skeleton in the camp is very likely to be Jergal, due to the several dialogue options explored. Considering Jergal allowed Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul to assume his power, it is possible he has been brought back to atone for his crime. Perhaps Ao, or lawful deity by the command of Ao, say Helm, is responsible for this, and has set the hooded skeleton on his divine mission. This would also explain why Jergal is hanging around the camp assisting the PCs.


Jergal was never gone, he's been working for Myrkul, then Cyric and now for Kelemvor as scribe of the dead recording everything that dies since he passed most of his power to the Three. I'm not sure why he would be punished now for it either, considering how long ago that happened.

Also, he's pretty busy recording things, so I doubt the skeleton is him. The skeleton could be working for Jergal thought.
Posted By: BuckettMonkey Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 02:57 PM
Originally Posted by Priest

We know that the Dead Three are generally behind the crisis going on in the Western Heartlands.
From the press kit: "we find ourselves on the center stage of a complot hatched by none other than the Dead Three: the gods of Murder, Tyranny, and Death."
I don't see how both the Dead Three and Cyric could fit in with this. Perhaps one or the other, but not both parties.

Well, yes, for approximately this reason I reject the theory that Cyric is the Absolute.
So far, it seems to me that the Absolute is a consortium of the Dead Three, like Angharradh mentioned earlier.
Originally Posted by Priest

In addition, the divine hooded skeleton in the camp is very likely to be Jergal, due to the several dialogue options explored. Considering Jergal allowed Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul to assume his power, it is possible he has been brought back to atone for his crime. Perhaps Ao, or lawful deity by the command of Ao, say Helm, is responsible for this, and has set the hooded skeleton on his divine mission. This would also explain why Jergal is hanging around the camp assisting the PCs.

Yes, I also think that the hooded skeleton is Jergal, or his avatar, or something related to it. There are too many hints of this in the game. Only I don’t think that he is involved in this Ao. So, as Overgod, he is, essentially, the God of Gods, the aloof and indifferent ruler over all deities who occasionally bestirs himself to smack them all upside the head when they do something he finds unforgivably stupid. Perhaps he will intervene in the course of the plot, but this seems doubtful to me.
Posted By: Vamathi Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 02:58 PM
Originally Posted by Priest
We know that the Dead Three are generally behind the crisis going on in the Western Heartlands.
From the press kit: "we find ourselves on the center stage of a complot hatched by none other than the Dead Three: the gods of Murder, Tyranny, and Death."
I don't see how both the Dead Three and Cyric could fit in with this. Perhaps one or the other, but not both parties.

In addition, the divine hooded skeleton in the camp is very likely to be Jergal, due to the several dialogue options explored. Considering Jergal allowed Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul to assume his power, it is possible he has been brought back to atone for his crime. Perhaps Ao, or lawful deity by the command of Ao, say Helm, is responsible for this, and has set the hooded skeleton on his divine mission. This would also explain why Jergal is hanging around the camp assisting the PCs.

It's a theory. If you think they will just place a main villain in front of you and it will be straight-forwards you haven't been listening to the NPCs around you much.
Maybe the Dead Three are falling to Shadowfell and Cyric will take over or is already taking over, maybe there will be other resolution, but I am convinced that he already has something to do with it.
Tbh I am not convinced that the talking skeleton is God, I think he might be a powerful lich such as https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Larloch could turn out to be quite a problem for your party. Of course that's more of a going more by lore on wiki...

Originally Posted by BuckettMonkey

Sorry, I didn't really understand you.
You mean the very ascent of Cyric as God? It's just that the rise of Cyric itself happened 100 years before the start of the game.
In BG 3 (late-15th DR) Cyric is already God. More interestingly, he is imprisoned. After killing Mystra, he was imprisoned in the Supreme Throne for 1000 years.
This, coupled with the prohibition of the Church of Cyric, may explain why he is posing as the Absolute.


I am well aware, the time in Act 1 is not what it seems like smile

Posted By: N7Greenfire Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 03:04 PM
Originally Posted by ash elemental
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire


Yeah but so far none of the True Souls have even known about their tadpoles, much less that they are altered by shadow magic.


Is there any information in the game that the 'true souls' tadpoles got tampered with shadow magic too? Because my impression was it's only those who were on that ship.

The Drow Halsin killed before he met us had q tadpole in stasis too, qll the true souls tadpoles are in stasis, its why they arnt mindflayers
Posted By: Priest Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 03:26 PM
Originally Posted by azarhal

Jergal was never gone, he's been working for Myrkul, then Cyric and now for Kelemvor as scribe of the dead recording everything that dies since he passed most of his power to the Three. I'm not sure why he would be punished now for it either, considering how long ago that happened.

Also, he's pretty busy recording things, so I doubt the skeleton is him. The skeleton could be working for Jergal thought.


I didn't mean that he was fully "gone" and then "brought back" to "life". I just meant that he had been brought to Faerun to assist the party against the Dead Three.
We don't know what has happened to Jergal as of the last couple of years. Perhaps he had been imprisoned some time after the Second Sundering (by another deity that recently "returned", Helm, perhaps).

I still believe that the skeleton is Jergal, or at least some sort of avatar, as BuckettMonkey said, there are many hints in the dialogue we have seen thus far.

Just speculation on my behalf, it is possible the skeletal being from the crypt is something else!
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 03:29 PM
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire
Originally Posted by ash elemental
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire


Yeah but so far none of the True Souls have even known about their tadpoles, much less that they are altered by shadow magic.


Is there any information in the game that the 'true souls' tadpoles got tampered with shadow magic too? Because my impression was it's only those who were on that ship.

The Drow Halsin killed before he met us had q tadpole in stasis too, qll the true souls tadpoles are in stasis, its why they arnt mindflayers


I don't remember Halsin's note mention shadow magic. We know about it because of the hag and the Mindflayer in the Underdark can sense the magic too but doesn't know what it is. That Mindflayer also suggest the tadpole were evolved to stay in stasis (as a species). So the stasis and shadow magic might be unrelated.

Also, there were other survivors in the ship with tadpoles (not companions), they were brought away by a female Elf controlling them (you have to talk to the dead fishermen to find that out). Even in the ship, Us and the Mindflayer at the helm think you are connected to the network, like everyone else on the ship, but you aren't and both will attack you if they realize that. Just like the Absolute members will attack you if they learn you are a survivor from the ship regardless if you used the tadpole or not.
And once you meet Nere the True Soul, he can mind control you if you used the tadpole too much, just like the survivors from the ship taken away.


There is something different between the PC/Origin's tadpoles and the ones everyone else is using and the only special thing we know about our tadpole is that there is shadow magic involved.
Posted By: alt-thea Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 06:04 PM
Originally Posted by azarhal

Also, there were other survivors in the ship with tadpoles (not companions), they were brought away by a female Elf controlling them (you have to talk to the dead fishermen to find that out).


The synopsis for that dialog says that it's about mindflayer illusion
You speak with the dead soul of a fisherman, who hurried to the crash site when he saw your ship fall from the sky. At the site he saw a mindflayer, disguised as a beautiful woman, and was killed by Intellect Devourers (brains)
Posted By: KillerRabbit Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 06:13 PM
Originally Posted by Priest
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Here's another far out possibility @Priest. Far out there, not very likely but I'm just spitballing.

Perhaps the absolute, like all mind flayers doesn't have a gender. Instead the absolute is a god like Angharradh that is made up parts of other gods? The dead three, Ilsensine and Shar?

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Angharradh


I don't think that the Absolute is a combination of the Dead Three, Ilsensine, and Shar. I can't see what Ilsensine and Shar would have to gain from working with three now-lowly deities.


We''ll I'm not fully committed to the theory but here's a defense anyway smile Shar has a long history of using low level evil deities for her own purposes. (indeed all these gods are her creation) Most recently she helped Cyric murder Mystra and did so at a time that Cyric was barely able to hold onto his portfolio.

Ilsensine has wanted to destroy and replace the Ohgma and the other gods of knowledge so "replacement" plot is right up his alley.

Again, not betting the farm on it but it seems plausible. smile
Posted By: KillerRabbit Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 06:18 PM
Originally Posted by azarhal

Jergal was never gone, he's been working for Myrkul, then Cyric and now for Kelemvor as scribe of the dead recording everything that dies since he passed most of his power to the Three. I'm not sure why he would be punished now for it either, considering how long ago that happened.

Also, he's pretty busy recording things, so I doubt the skeleton is him. The skeleton could be working for Jergal thought.


That's my guess as well. The dialogue mentions the power of a chosen which would fit. As would an old avatar. If it were Jergal himself he would be disguising his form and faking his time in the tomb (Jergal looks like a praying mantis.)
Posted By: alt-thea Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 06:22 PM
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit


That's my guess as well. The dialogue mentions the power of a chosen which would fit. As would an old avatar. If it were Jergal himself he would be disguising his form and faking his time in the tomb (Jergal looks like a praying mantis.)


again datamined scene synopsis

"After the party has slain a group of undead scholars, the judge of death--Jergal--climbs out of his sarcophagus to greet them. He has been locked inside for years by the god Helm to atone for his part in raising the Dead Three, wicked gods who are now plotting to conquer the realms. Jergal is emotionless and excessively formal, both resigned to his fate and that of others. He is here to assist the party because that is his divine oath, not out of any true desire to act. Players can attempt to goad or attack him, but to minimal effect, as he is functionally immortal. His only goal was to see their faces, so he can find them at camp later to offer further assistance."

"Jergal, a god of the dead, awaits the player in camp. He is bound by the judgment of another god - Helm - to assist the players as penance for past crimes. He provides resurrection services to the players."
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 06:34 PM
Originally Posted by alt-thea
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit


That's my guess as well. The dialogue mentions the power of a chosen which would fit. As would an old avatar. If it were Jergal himself he would be disguising his form and faking his time in the tomb (Jergal looks like a praying mantis.)


again datamined scene synopsis

"After the party has slain a group of undead scholars, the judge of death--Jergal--climbs out of his sarcophagus to greet them. He has been locked inside for years by the god Helm to atone for his part in raising the Dead Three, wicked gods who are now plotting to conquer the realms. Jergal is emotionless and excessively formal, both resigned to his fate and that of others. He is here to assist the party because that is his divine oath, not out of any true desire to act. Players can attempt to goad or attack him, but to minimal effect, as he is functionally immortal. His only goal was to see their faces, so he can find them at camp later to offer further assistance."

"Jergal, a god of the dead, awaits the player in camp. He is bound by the judgment of another god - Helm - to assist the players as penance for past crimes. He provides resurrection services to the players."



That contradict ~30 years of Forgotten Realms lore. I would be rather surprised that WoTC would just allow the devs to change that. Even more curious, the place where we find him was a Selûne's chapel just a few months ago (in demonstration) and everything related to that is still in the game files.
Posted By: KillerRabbit Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 06:35 PM
Originally Posted by alt-thea
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit


That's my guess as well. The dialogue mentions the power of a chosen which would fit. As would an old avatar. If it were Jergal himself he would be disguising his form and faking his time in the tomb (Jergal looks like a praying mantis.)


again datamined scene synopsis

"After the party has slain a group of undead scholars, the judge of death--Jergal--climbs out of his sarcophagus to greet them. He has been locked inside for years by the god Helm to atone for his part in raising the Dead Three, wicked gods who are now plotting to conquer the realms. Jergal is emotionless and excessively formal, both resigned to his fate and that of others. He is here to assist the party because that is his divine oath, not out of any true desire to act. Players can attempt to goad or attack him, but to minimal effect, as he is functionally immortal. His only goal was to see their faces, so he can find them at camp later to offer further assistance."

"Jergal, a god of the dead, awaits the player in camp. He is bound by the judgment of another god - Helm - to assist the players as penance for past crimes. He provides resurrection services to the players."



%$%$^ evidence works against my theories again. smile Thanks. At some point we some language that explains his change of appearance


[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Posted By: alt-thea Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 06:51 PM
Originally Posted by azarhal



That contradict ~30 years of Forgotten Realms lore. I would be rather surprised that WoTC would just allow the devs to change that. Even more curious, the place where we find him was a Selûne's chapel just a few months ago (in demonstration) and everything related to that is still in the game files.


I honestly don't know how accurate these descriptions are. Just that he is called Jergal in them and all his files say 'Jergal' also.
As for the tomb itself, there a dialog with Shadowheart:
PC: The air's stale. It's been centuries since any prayers disturbed it.
SH: Who were those prayers for? Normally the patron god is obvious - not here.

And there is Jergals statue, so at least this particular room hasn't been dedicated to Selune lately.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 07:07 PM
Originally Posted by alt-thea
Originally Posted by azarhal



That contradict ~30 years of Forgotten Realms lore. I would be rather surprised that WoTC would just allow the devs to change that. Even more curious, the place where we find him was a Selûne's chapel just a few months ago (in demonstration) and everything related to that is still in the game files.


I honestly don't know how accurate these descriptions are. Just that he is called Jergal in them and all his files say 'Jergal' also.
As for the tomb itself, there a dialog with Shadowheart:
PC: The air's stale. It's been centuries since any prayers disturbed it.
SH: Who were those prayers for? Normally the patron god is obvious - not here.

And there is Jergals statue, so at least this particular room hasn't been dedicated to Selune lately.


I'm not saying they are inaccurate, I'm saying it's break the lore into pieces and that the place where we find him had a different story and they didn't bother scrubbing the game files of it.

You could clearly see the Selûne's symbol on banners back at E3, they changed them to banners that don't even have Jergal's symbol on them. The statues were probably changed too. They nixed some of Shadowheart's special dialogues that referenced Selûne but the game files that trigger them still exist.

It's just a strange change for the sake of making change. On top of that, his service breaks the game, as he should be able to cure you of the tadpole...
Posted By: Verte Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 07:26 PM
Originally Posted by azarhal
It's just a strange change for the sake of making change. On top of that, his service breaks the game, as he should be able to cure you of the tadpole...


Maybe his service is open for EA purpose only. 200 gold for people who run out of scrolls already or something. Less complaints in reviews how game is ooh so difficult (git gud?).
Posted By: N7Greenfire Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 08:13 PM
Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire
Originally Posted by ash elemental
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire


Yeah but so far none of the True Souls have even known about their tadpoles, much less that they are altered by shadow magic.


Is there any information in the game that the 'true souls' tadpoles got tampered with shadow magic too? Because my impression was it's only those who were on that ship.

The Drow Halsin killed before he met us had q tadpole in stasis too, qll the true souls tadpoles are in stasis, its why they arnt mindflayers


I don't remember Halsin's note mention shadow magic. We know about it because of the hag and the Mindflayer in the Underdark can sense the magic too but doesn't know what it is. That Mindflayer also suggest the tadpole were evolved to stay in stasis (as a species). So the stasis and shadow magic might be unrelated.

Also, there were other survivors in the ship with tadpoles (not companions), they were brought away by a female Elf controlling them (you have to talk to the dead fishermen to find that out). Even in the ship, Us and the Mindflayer at the helm think you are connected to the network, like everyone else on the ship, but you aren't and both will attack you if they realize that. Just like the Absolute members will attack you if they learn you are a survivor from the ship regardless if you used the tadpole or not.
And once you meet Nere the True Soul, he can mind control you if you used the tadpole too much, just like the survivors from the ship taken away.


There is something different between the PC/Origin's tadpoles and the ones everyone else is using and the only special thing we know about our tadpole is that there is shadow magic involved.

Halsin's journal entry mentions the Drow's tadpole isnt a normal i belive it even says stasis, Netty flat out calls it status.
Posted By: alt-thea Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 08:32 PM
Originally Posted by azarhal
[quote=alt-thea][quote=azarhal]

I'm not saying they are inaccurate, I'm saying it's break the lore into pieces and that the place where we find him had a different story and they didn't bother scrubbing the game files of it.

You could clearly see the Selûne's symbol on banners back at E3, they changed them to banners that don't even have Jergal's symbol on them. The statues were probably changed too. They nixed some of Shadowheart's special dialogues that referenced Selûne but the game files that trigger them still exist.

It's just a strange change for the sake of making change. On top of that, his service breaks the game, as he should be able to cure you of the tadpole...


Honestly, everything about 'there's a talkative skeleton in our camp and it wants to revive us repeatedly' sounds really weird...
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 08:35 PM
Originally Posted by alt-thea
Honestly, everything about 'there's a talkative skeleton in our camp and it wants to revive us repeatedly' sounds really weird...


Try attacking him...lol
Posted By: ash elemental Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 09:26 PM
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire

The Drow Halsin killed before he met us had q tadpole in stasis too, qll the true souls tadpoles are in stasis, its why they arnt mindflayers

The tadpoles could be designed that way by the absolute, which would explain why the true souls aren't turning. I don't recall the hag explaining what the shadow magic did to the tadpole, just that it was tampered. Seems like misdirection.
Posted By: Verte Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 09:36 PM
Originally Posted by ash elemental
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire
Originally Posted by ash elemental
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire


Yeah but so far none of the True Souls have even known about their tadpoles, much less that they are altered by shadow magic.


Is there any information in the game that the 'true souls' tadpoles got tampered with shadow magic too? Because my impression was it's only those who were on that ship.

The Drow Halsin killed before he met us had q tadpole in stasis too, qll the true souls tadpoles are in stasis, its why they arnt mindflayers

The tadpoles could be designed that way by the absolute, which would explain why the true souls aren't turning. I don't recall the hag explaining what the shadow magic did to the tadpole, just that it was tampered, hence my question.


Rather mindflayers themselves, it's their way of breeding and there was pod with girl which turned after pulling the lever. They are experimenting. They work for/with/being the Absolute.
Posted By: ash elemental Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 09:38 PM
Ah yep, that makes sense. I completely forgot about the prologue. But it is interesting, because it implies that the transformation could be controlled. So maybe the absolute gathers the army and then turns everyone into a mind flayer at once. This would give them the advantage of being able to infiltrate Baldur's Gate for example, since they won't show any symptoms of turning beforehand, and the turning itself is instantaneous.
Posted By: Rhobar121 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 10:17 PM
Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by alt-thea
Originally Posted by azarhal



That contradict ~30 years of Forgotten Realms lore. I would be rather surprised that WoTC would just allow the devs to change that. Even more curious, the place where we find him was a Selûne's chapel just a few months ago (in demonstration) and everything related to that is still in the game files.


I honestly don't know how accurate these descriptions are. Just that he is called Jergal in them and all his files say 'Jergal' also.
As for the tomb itself, there a dialog with Shadowheart:
PC: The air's stale. It's been centuries since any prayers disturbed it.
SH: Who were those prayers for? Normally the patron god is obvious - not here.

And there is Jergals statue, so at least this particular room hasn't been dedicated to Selune lately.


I'm not saying they are inaccurate, I'm saying it's break the lore into pieces and that the place where we find him had a different story and they didn't bother scrubbing the game files of it.

You could clearly see the Selûne's symbol on banners back at E3, they changed them to banners that don't even have Jergal's symbol on them. The statues were probably changed too. They nixed some of Shadowheart's special dialogues that referenced Selûne but the game files that trigger them still exist.

It's just a strange change for the sake of making change. On top of that, his service breaks the game, as he should be able to cure you of the tadpole...


I don't see a problem.
You assume he'd like to heal our team. If he did, then everyone would go their own way and no one would investigate the plans for the absolute.
In the first presentation, Jergal's statue was a placeholder, it was a model from DoS2.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 10:33 PM
Originally Posted by Rhobar121
Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by alt-thea
Originally Posted by azarhal



That contradict ~30 years of Forgotten Realms lore. I would be rather surprised that WoTC would just allow the devs to change that. Even more curious, the place where we find him was a Selûne's chapel just a few months ago (in demonstration) and everything related to that is still in the game files.


I honestly don't know how accurate these descriptions are. Just that he is called Jergal in them and all his files say 'Jergal' also.
As for the tomb itself, there a dialog with Shadowheart:
PC: The air's stale. It's been centuries since any prayers disturbed it.
SH: Who were those prayers for? Normally the patron god is obvious - not here.

And there is Jergals statue, so at least this particular room hasn't been dedicated to Selune lately.


I'm not saying they are inaccurate, I'm saying it's break the lore into pieces and that the place where we find him had a different story and they didn't bother scrubbing the game files of it.

You could clearly see the Selûne's symbol on banners back at E3, they changed them to banners that don't even have Jergal's symbol on them. The statues were probably changed too. They nixed some of Shadowheart's special dialogues that referenced Selûne but the game files that trigger them still exist.

It's just a strange change for the sake of making change. On top of that, his service breaks the game, as he should be able to cure you of the tadpole...


I don't see a problem.
You assume he'd like to heal our team. If he did, then everyone would go their own way and no one would investigate the plans for the absolute.
In the first presentation, Jergal's statue was a placeholder, it was a model from DoS2.


I'm not talking about healing, his resurrections isn't revivify (which require the original body), it's true resurrections. It recreate a whole new body, tadpole free.

Gale's true resurrections scroll should also cure him of the tadpole.
Posted By: Surface R Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 10:54 PM
There was a guy in the intro movie who turned instantaneously too.

Some people commented thats weird but assumed it was done for cinematic purposes. Guess not.
Posted By: Priest Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 11:11 PM
Originally Posted by Surface R
There was a guy in the intro movie who turned instantaneously too.

Some people commented thats weird but assumed it was done for cinematic purposes. Guess not.


Are you sure he "turned instantaneously"? We don't know when he became infected. Perhaps they were all activated at the same time (ceremorphosis triggered as the tadpole was no longer kept in stasis), hence why all the mind flayers rise up at the same time.
Posted By: Priest Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 11:19 PM
Originally Posted by azarhal

I'm not talking about healing, his resurrections isn't revivify (which require the original body), it's true resurrections. It recreate a whole new body, tadpole free.

Gale's true resurrections scroll should also cure him of the tadpole.


It should cure him of the tadpole, yes. However, I have a feeling that the writers will say "The tadpole cannot be removed in such a way, it's a special case. The power behind what is keeping the tadpole there is unique".

They may also say that it isn't a wound, poison, disease, or curse, but rather a parasite or "part of you": if you're brought back, you're brought back with the tadpole.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/11/20 11:29 PM
Originally Posted by Priest
Originally Posted by azarhal

I'm not talking about healing, his resurrections isn't revivify (which require the original body), it's true resurrections. It recreate a whole new body, tadpole free.

Gale's true resurrections scroll should also cure him of the tadpole.


It should cure him of the tadpole, yes. However, I have a feeling that the writers will say "The tadpole cannot be removed in such a way, it's a special case. The power behind what is keeping the tadpole there is unique".

They may also say that it isn't a wound, poison, disease, or curse, but rather a parasite or "part of you": if you're brought back, you're brought back with the tadpole.


True resurrections just take your soul to bring your back and you need to be willing on top of it. If the tadpole is now your soul than we are already mindflayers at the start of the game.

And that's not the intent, because there are dialogues about the tadpole feeding on something inside of you that isn't physical, aka your soul.

Posted By: N7Greenfire Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 07/11/20 12:25 AM
Originally Posted by ash elemental
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire

The Drow Halsin killed before he met us had q tadpole in stasis too, qll the true souls tadpoles are in stasis, its why they arnt mindflayers

The tadpoles could be designed that way by the absolute, which would explain why the true souls aren't turning. I don't recall the hag explaining what the shadow magic did to the tadpole, just that it was tampered. Seems like misdirection.

The "scholar" with the mushroom people lets us know the stasis its the only thing stopping the tadpoles from chowing down, he might have mentioned shadowmagic too
Posted By: Surface R Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 07/11/20 01:35 AM
Originally Posted by Priest
Originally Posted by Surface R
There was a guy in the intro movie who turned instantaneously too.

Some people commented thats weird but assumed it was done for cinematic purposes. Guess not.


Are you sure he "turned instantaneously"? We don't know when he became infected. Perhaps they were all activated at the same time (ceremorphosis triggered as the tadpole was no longer kept in stasis), hence why all the mind flayers rise up at the same time.


What a silly question.

The cinematic clearly shows just that and since we have seen precisely that ability on the nautiloid there is no sense to hallucinate you didnt see what you did see.
Unless you just got stuck on that early "idea" and prefer to hallucinate and imagine things that arent there.

It fits very well with the idea of a plot for a sudden occupation, with improved True Soul fighters and with grunts turning into grunts immediately when the time comes.
Posted By: Priest Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 07/11/20 01:45 AM
Originally Posted by Surface R
Originally Posted by Priest
Originally Posted by Surface R
There was a guy in the intro movie who turned instantaneously too.

Some people commented thats weird but assumed it was done for cinematic purposes. Guess not.


Are you sure he "turned instantaneously"? We don't know when he became infected. Perhaps they were all activated at the same time (ceremorphosis triggered as the tadpole was no longer kept in stasis), hence why all the mind flayers rise up at the same time.


What a silly question.

The cinematic clearly shows just that and since we have seen precisely that ability on the nautiloid there is no sense to hallucinate you didnt see what you did see.
Unless you just got stuck on that early "idea" and prefer to hallucinate and imagine things that arent there.

It fits very well with the idea of a plot for a sudden occupation, with improved True Soul fighters and with grunts turning into grunts immediately when the time comes.


I think I misinterpreted what you meant. I thought that you meant he turned soon after he was infected, instead of an instant transformation.
Posted By: N7Greenfire Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 07/11/20 01:49 AM
Originally Posted by Surface R
Originally Posted by Priest
Originally Posted by Surface R
There was a guy in the intro movie who turned instantaneously too.

Some people commented thats weird but assumed it was done for cinematic purposes. Guess not.


Are you sure he "turned instantaneously"? We don't know when he became infected. Perhaps they were all activated at the same time (ceremorphosis triggered as the tadpole was no longer kept in stasis), hence why all the mind flayers rise up at the same time.


What a silly question.

The cinematic clearly shows just that and since we have seen precisely that ability on the nautiloid there is no sense to hallucinate you didnt see what you did see.
Unless you just got stuck on that early "idea" and prefer to hallucinate and imagine things that arent there.

It fits very well with the idea of a plot for a sudden occupation, with improved True Soul fighters and with grunts turning into grunts immediately when the time comes.

Yeah guys i wouldent put too much stock in the cinematic Remember Da:O's with the glowing eye and Tat Warden? Those are largely for hype.

Besides we know the tadpoles we carry are much stronger that a regular mindflayers

Maybe the Nautiloid carried two varieties of Tadpole though, one for True Souls qnd the regular kind to make more mindflayers.
Posted By: Surface R Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 07/11/20 01:52 AM
We dont see when exactly he was infected but due to how its all set up, with the sudden attack on the city and taking people left and right, we can safely assume it was done shortly before ceramorphosis.
Its an important thing in the lore, a new development, which we get confirmation on in the very tutorial. By a loaded Illithid pod.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 07/11/20 02:05 AM
The BG3 announcement trailer looks like what the dead mindflayer shows as "their plan" if you highjack Ragzlin's interrogation. Part of the game plot will be to stop that from happening I suspect. Well unless you achieved "True Soul", in that case you're probably more Illithid than you would want, you just don't know it yet. wink
Posted By: ash elemental Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 07/11/20 11:16 AM
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire

The "scholar" with the mushroom people lets us know the stasis its the only thing stopping the tadpoles from chowing down, he might have mentioned shadowmagic too

He calls it "strange magic", not shadow magic, though.

He also states that apart from stasis, the tadpole is shielded from interference. So it might be that there are two forces at work here: one prevents your character from turning until the stasis is removed, but the other prevents the absolute from getting into their mind.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 08/11/20 05:08 AM
Originally Posted by Surface R
We dont see when exactly he was infected but due to how its all set up, with the sudden attack on the city and taking people left and right, we can safely assume it was done shortly before ceramorphosis.

WotC let it be known in an interview that those seen in the teaser had the tadpole for 7 days, suggesting a normal transformation sequence. But the symbol of the absolute is clearly visible on a wall so that would indicate that the absolute cultists also infect people with normal tadpoles. Or the communication between Larian and WotC does not work.
I guess that the teaser really showed the events of the mindflayer interrogation. I still wonder how they got the plans for the nautiloids, they had lost the capability to build them a long time ago. I am pretty sure these things need a lot of time to grow, so the alliance between mindflayers and absolute must have been in place for a long time.
Posted By: Surface R Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 08/11/20 08:07 AM
Hm, whatever, i guess it will be clarified sooner or later. In any case we have seen that a quick transformation is possible.
Posted By: N7Greenfire Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 08/11/20 08:14 AM
Originally Posted by ash elemental
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire

The "scholar" with the mushroom people lets us know the stasis its the only thing stopping the tadpoles from chowing down, he might have mentioned shadowmagic too

He calls it "strange magic", not shadow magic, though.

He also states that apart from stasis, the tadpole is shielded from interference. So it might be that there are two forces at work here: one prevents your character from turning until the stasis is removed, but the other prevents the absolute from getting into their mind.

He says its sheilded from physical and magical attacks iirc, even telepathic reaching out it all seems part of the same magic shield.
Posted By: Taramafor Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 08/11/20 08:25 AM
Quote
All of the Bhaalspawn are dead. This was necessary for the rebirth of Bhaal, which happened in the table top adventure Murder in Baldur’s Gate.

You're comparing board game logic to computer game logic. Don't assume that will apply here. Nothing in Baldur's gate computer games has ever given any indication of ALL children of Bhaal being wiped out. For we know we could be playing as one. I highly doubt this tabletop game you mention even mentions the main character in BG2. Who is of course a bhaalspawn. And I really don't see how ALL children of Bhaal can be found and hunted down if there's so many (let alone THEIR children to boot). You can follow a trail of destruction of course but what of those that keep a low profile? Or even go out of their way to not kill? What if you just THINK you got them all but haven't? No, that seems unlikely. But this isn't necessary for Bhaal to resurrect.

Bhaal doesn't need ALL Bhaalspawn to resurrect. He simply needs enough. "A good chunk". That's his failsafe. So even if/when he resurrects there's every chance we'll be playing AS one. Which will further make the encounter all the more interesting. The "lust for blood line" at the end of the early access version of BG3 indicates this might just be happening. If not the character then perhaps whatever sent the parasite. Mindflayers deal more with "converting" then "slaughter".

It's all speculation at this point. All we know for sure is that Bhaal is involved somehow. The absolute is likely some shady organisation that either banded together under bhaal (knowingly or not) or some resistance movement against whatever threat Bhaal presents even if he has yet to present himself "in person". The absolute isn't ONE person. It's a gang/group. That's why the goblins fear you're with them. And the drow with the goblins seems to be one of them herself. She's not THE absolute. She's ONE absolute. If it was just one person then the goblins would never call YOU the absolute. You don't just know someone and then look at a stranger and go "That's who I know". But it's very easy to do that when it's a group. That's why it shows you the mindflayers and gnolls and drow. And mentions "unity". For whatever reason they all share the same goal. Whatever that goal is. Which likely involves the parasite somehow.
Posted By: BuckettMonkey Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 08/11/20 10:18 AM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog

I guess that the teaser really showed the events of the mindflayer interrogation. I still wonder how they got the plans for the nautiloids, they had lost the capability to build them a long time ago. I am pretty sure these things need a lot of time to grow, so the alliance between mindflayers and absolute must have been in place for a long time.

Well, some of the illithid colonies still had nautiloids. Of course, such colonies are extremely rare and incredibly old, but still.
Nautiloids were often used for escape or the last line of defense, while illithids obeying the Absolute use them to kidnap people.
It seems to me that the presence of nautiloids speaks first of all about the return of the illithids and the beginning of active aggressive actions.
One of the forum topics raised the idea of the influence of the Far Realm and the intervention of the Arcane (mercanes), but it seems to me that it is too early to judge this.
Posted By: Firesnakearies Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 08/11/20 10:58 AM
Now I'm thinking the Absolute is just the Dead Three, Voltron'd together into a mega-god.
Posted By: ash elemental Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 08/11/20 11:24 AM
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire

He says its sheilded from physical and magical attacks iirc, even telepathic reaching out it all seems part of the same magic shield.


It doesn't seem so to me. The true soul tadpoles are in stasis too, but they do not appear to be shielded from the absolute. Only the party is.

Also, the encounter with the goblin priestess indicates that

this shielding might prevent transformation. When she gains a glimpse into the character's mind (if they mind meld), she doesn't immediately rally all the goblins to kill you. Instead she imprisons the character to observe the transformation. But she doesn't wait very long, which means she expects the transformation to happen quickly. And when it doesn't, only then does she try to kill the character.

The goblin priestess isn't very aware of what is really going on. But if the true souls are not shielded from the absolute, and it can mind link to them and control them that way, then those actions make sense.
Posted By: Kendaric Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 08/11/20 01:10 PM
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Now I'm thinking the Absolute is just the Dead Three, Voltron'd together into a mega-god.


It might actually be their attempt to circumvent Ao and regain immortality. We'll have to wait and see...
Posted By: N7Greenfire Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 08/11/20 06:09 PM
Originally Posted by ash elemental
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire

He says its sheilded from physical and magical attacks iirc, even telepathic reaching out it all seems part of the same magic shield.


It doesn't seem so to me. The true soul tadpoles are in stasis too, but they do not appear to be shielded from the absolute. Only the party is.

Also, the encounter with the goblin priestess indicates that

this shielding might prevent transformation. When she gains a glimpse into the character's mind (if they mind meld), she doesn't immediately rally all the goblins to kill you. Instead she imprisons the character to observe the transformation. But she doesn't wait very long, which means she expects the transformation to happen quickly. And when it doesn't, only then does she try to kill the character.

The goblin priestess isn't very aware of what is really going on. But if the true souls are not shielded from the absolute, and it can mind link to them and control them that way, then those actions make sense.


I dont think there is a direct link to the absolute like you are suggesting otherwise Gut Ragzlin and Minthara would have known what we were and attacked immediately
Posted By: Ellenhard Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 08/11/20 07:21 PM
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire
Originally Posted by ash elemental
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire

He says its sheilded from physical and magical attacks iirc, even telepathic reaching out it all seems part of the same magic shield.


It doesn't seem so to me. The true soul tadpoles are in stasis too, but they do not appear to be shielded from the absolute. Only the party is.

Also, the encounter with the goblin priestess indicates that

this shielding might prevent transformation. When she gains a glimpse into the character's mind (if they mind meld), she doesn't immediately rally all the goblins to kill you. Instead she imprisons the character to observe the transformation. But she doesn't wait very long, which means she expects the transformation to happen quickly. And when it doesn't, only then does she try to kill the character.

The goblin priestess isn't very aware of what is really going on. But if the true souls are not shielded from the absolute, and it can mind link to them and control them that way, then those actions make sense.


I dont think there is a direct link to the absolute like you are suggesting otherwise Gut Ragzlin and Minthara would have known what we were and attacked immediately


On that point, I agree. While on the outside Absolute is behaving like any other aggresive cult would, on the inside it behaves just like a Shar cell vs cell: no one knows for sure that this is a Shar agent before you (ofc, unless it is Shadowheart with her circlet and armor).

But it doesn't mean anything conclusive at all.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 08/11/20 08:34 PM
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire
Originally Posted by ash elemental
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire

He says its sheilded from physical and magical attacks iirc, even telepathic reaching out it all seems part of the same magic shield.


It doesn't seem so to me. The true soul tadpoles are in stasis too, but they do not appear to be shielded from the absolute. Only the party is.

Also, the encounter with the goblin priestess indicates that

this shielding might prevent transformation. When she gains a glimpse into the character's mind (if they mind meld), she doesn't immediately rally all the goblins to kill you. Instead she imprisons the character to observe the transformation. But she doesn't wait very long, which means she expects the transformation to happen quickly. And when it doesn't, only then does she try to kill the character.

The goblin priestess isn't very aware of what is really going on. But if the true souls are not shielded from the absolute, and it can mind link to them and control them that way, then those actions make sense.


I dont think there is a direct link to the absolute like you are suggesting otherwise Gut Ragzlin and Minthara would have known what we were and attacked immediately


They have a connection, it doesn't mean it's always up or that the Absolute knows what the party looks like. Gut gets real interested once she learn that you have a tadpole, going as far as trying to study you.

There are also ambient dialogues that suggest the higher ups at Moonrise Towers don't trust them (hence the scrying eye).
Posted By: Surface R Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 08/11/20 08:39 PM
The Goblin priestess has no idea about any tadpole. She simply believes she got powers from a new god. She thinks the tadpole is only your character problem, a regular illithid tadpole that will turn you into a mindflayer. When you tell her she has one too she refuses to believe it, says its only your tadpole making you think crazy things because its already eating your mind so you are hallucinating. *

There is no direct connection with the absolute that affects that. The Goblin warlord also doesnt reveal any such direct communication with the Absolute. It doesnt seem to communicate directly but only through visions created by the tadpoles while at the same time it hides the existence of tadpoles from infected. The true souls genuinely believe the false story about a new god, the Absolute. Its not a direct control.

The only difference between other true souls and our characters is that our implantation process was cut short so we remained aware of the tadpole. Its possible but unclear if any other higher force was involved in any of that.
Posted By: KillerRabbit Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 08/11/20 08:49 PM
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Now I'm thinking the Absolute is just the Dead Three, Voltron'd together into a mega-god.


A merged god is a real possibility but Shar has to be part of the conspiracy for shadow magic to be involved.

The "Shar as Protector" is a possibility but that doesn't explain the instant transformation we saw on the nautaloid. As I see it shadow magic keeps the tadpole in stasis, the true souls use the powers, tadpole gains power without changing the body and at the right time the absolute pushes the button and 'bam' all the leaders become flayers.
Posted By: N7Greenfire Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 08/11/20 09:11 PM
Originally Posted by Surface R
The Goblin priestess has no idea about any tadpole. She simply believes she got powers from a new god. She thinks the tadpole is only your character problem, a regular illithid tadpole that will turn you into a mindflayer. When you tell her she has one too she refuses to believe it, says its only your tadpole making you think crazy things because it already eat your mind so you are hallucinating.

There is no direct connection with the absolute that affects that. The Goblin warlord also doesnt reveal any such direct communication with the Absolute. It doesnt seem to communicate directly but only through visions created by the tadpoles while at the same time it hides the existence of tadpoles from infected. The true souls genuinely believe the false story about a new god, the Absolute. Its not a direct control.

The only difference between other true souls and our characters is that our implantation process was cut short so we remained aware of the tadpole. Its possible but unclear if any other higher force was involved in any of that.

Yeah, presumably Tav/The Origin characters would have been mind wiped when they arrived at Moonrise, or even on the Nautiloid had it not been attacked
Posted By: Surface R Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 09/11/20 05:58 AM
Not completely mind wiped, but just enough so we dont remember the implantation. Other True souls retain their personalities and memories as usual, they just dont remember being infected with tadpoles.
Posted By: N7Greenfire Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 09/11/20 06:13 AM
Also worth noting the Nautiloid mindflaners were specifically studying the last thousand years of history wonder if that could narrow down what the absolute is
Posted By: Ellenhard Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 09/11/20 07:12 AM
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire
Also worth noting the Nautiloid mindflaners were specifically studying the last thousand years of history wonder if that could narrow down what the absolute is


If we are going with Chekhov's rifle theory, then yes; but aren't mindflayers are a race which gathers all the info they could get, all the time, by definition?
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 09/11/20 12:31 PM
Originally Posted by Surface R
Not completely mind wiped, but just enough so we dont remember the implantation. Other True souls retain their personalities and memories as usual, they just dont remember being infected with tadpoles.


Normal mandflayers can keep a certain amount of personality/memories from the original host they grew from. wink
Posted By: ash elemental Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 09/11/20 01:03 PM
Originally Posted by Taramafor
Quote
All of the Bhaalspawn are dead. This was necessary for the rebirth of Bhaal, which happened in the table top adventure Murder in Baldur’s Gate.

You're comparing board game logic to computer game logic. Don't assume that will apply here. Nothing in Baldur's gate computer games has ever given any indication of ALL children of Bhaal being wiped out. For we know we could be playing as one. .


I think there was a statue of an illithid in the ending cinematics of BG1. Though I'm not quite sure, it has been some time since I've played the game. But you never meet an illithid Bhaalspawn in BG2, so maybe ut remained hidden all this time... until now. :P
Posted By: N7Greenfire Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 09/11/20 04:58 PM
Originally Posted by Ellenhard
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire
Also worth noting the Nautiloid mindflaners were specifically studying the last thousand years of history wonder if that could narrow down what the absolute is


If we are going with Chekhov's rifle theory, then yes; but aren't mindflayers are a race which gathers all the info they could get, all the time, by definition?

The other data drives on the ship specifically relate to the game events though.

One is a study on Goblins another is about Shadowheart's artifact
Posted By: Ellenhard Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 09/11/20 05:06 PM
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire
Originally Posted by Ellenhard
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire
Also worth noting the Nautiloid mindflaners were specifically studying the last thousand years of history wonder if that could narrow down what the absolute is


If we are going with Chekhov's rifle theory, then yes; but aren't mindflayers are a race which gathers all the info they could get, all the time, by definition?

The other data drives on the ship specifically relate to the game events though.

One is a study on Goblins another is about Shadowheart's artifact


I agree, and humanoid's history (the third manuscript) could easily be linked to the events, too.
Posted By: Surface R Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 09/11/20 06:14 PM
I just noticed that the little brain devourer companion urges you to leave Shadowheart in the pod, to not even try to release her. Although it doesnt mind Laezel at all, strangely. Its a bit intentionally oblique and looks as if its just urging you to go on get to the helm, easy to miss on the first playthrough, but its noticeable on the second run when you already know some bits. And her pod is additionally hardened against tempering or opening, plus of course she reveals she is missing memories and her artifact was the reason Gith attacked. Quite probably a tragic role of the game, with options.
Posted By: FaultyValve Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 10/11/20 01:13 AM
Both Shar and Tiamat (and other evil gods) have posed as good gods for one plot or another. Sometimes just to gain more followers that wouldn't normally worship them. So I could see that.. kind of. Seems to simple as a plot point.

The Illithids had nautiloids in spelljammer, so even if they can't make them anymore, doesn't mean there aren't still a few (or a lot) still out there. And remember, it was one of their enemies that said they lost the ability to make them, might not even be true.

MINOR SPOILERS FOR THE RECENT RA SALVATORE BOOKS - There was something about Lolth and the Illithids that I would say more about.

IMO, it's deffinately NOT a Bhaalspawn, but it wouldn't be a Baulder's Gate game with someone trying to become a god.

The Githyanki capital city is built on the corpse of a dead god the floats through the astral plane, and Tiamat is already (at least a little) involved through them.

Are there actual clerics of the Absolute, or just cultists?

There are UR priests in older D&D editions, who tap into the raw divine energy to cast and are in fact atheists.

Could be an Elder brain that found a way to pause the ceremorphosis. Uses it to create a cult. Cults mean worship. Enough worship and the Illithids get their own god....which would be superbad for all the Realms and the other gods too, as the Illitids are from Outside.

Just a bunch of random facts and theories.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 10/11/20 01:38 AM
Originally Posted by FaultyValve
Are there actual clerics of the Absolute, or just cultists?


Gut and Minthara are both clerics of the Absolute, but that doesn't mean much as any gods could grant them spells if they wanted to keep the charade up. There are plenty of example of that in the setting.

Datamined info:
There is also a Chosen of the Absolute at Moonrise Towers...so they are pushing the charade very far.
Posted By: FaultyValve Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 10/11/20 01:56 AM
True, I forgot about that.
Posted By: Priest Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 10/11/20 02:04 AM
Originally Posted by FaultyValve

Enough worship and the Illithids get their own god....which would be superbad for all the Realms and the other gods too, as the Illitids are from Outside.


Illithids already have "their own god"s, even if they don't worship them to the extent of other mortal races.

Check out Ilsensine, as well as Maanzecorian.

Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by FaultyValve
Are there actual clerics of the Absolute, or just cultists?

Gut and Minthara are both clerics of the Absolute, but that doesn't mean much as any gods could grant them spells if they wanted to keep the charade up. There are plenty of example of that in the setting.


I agree, and I think this is certainly plausible.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 11/11/20 01:45 PM
Maybe the three now mortal gods want to find a way to godhood that does not limit their ability to interfere in Faerun. They were made mortal because they did not stop their interference. As the Mindflayer gods are outside of the normal pantheon, could they seek to cooperate with them to become a less limited kind of god with no supreme entity to control them?
This seems more like a story for a planescape setting, but the motivation is there for them.
Posted By: Surface R Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 11/11/20 09:01 PM
After more playing it feels to me that Shar might be the main culprit, if there is a main. But the dead Three are certainly involved in some way. It may be they made some kind of a pact with Shar, because they are not as strong and powerful anymore, and Shar has her own issues and goals. Several characters describe Absolute as female and i dont think the dead three would easily go for such pretending.

The devils are obviously an outside force in this. Its not their game but they do have interests in it.

Apart from that the only unclear thing is whats the deal with presumed Illithid diety. Is it an actual deity or an impostor.
The mural that is the first thing we see in the game makes it definite there is some sort of religious thing going on with Illithids,although it may be just a part of Illithids, not all of them.

[Linked Image]

There is an elder brain out of whom the chosen one comes forth holding the special staff above kneeling and bowing multitudes.
I have no idea what are the things on the left and right of the figure with the staff, the creatures with two big legs and long tails, bent so their big triangular heads touch the floor. Anyone knows?

-edit-

On a second look, those might be humans leaning back with their shoulders but their heads are unclear. The tentacles , not tails, would then be behind them.

The crowd is also humanoid on the left and right and only the middle row are Illithids.


Posted By: Vhaldez Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 11/11/20 09:08 PM
There's also this to consider;
Unbeknownst to many surface-dwellers, the dreaded mind flayers are devoutly religious beings. Unlike the atheistic aboleths, illithids give constant thought to their gods and both fear and honor their race’s clerics. These are the three known deities worshiped by mind flayers.

ILSENSINE
The God-Brain
Deity of illithids, mental domination, and psychic magic
Alignment: Lawful evil
Domains: Evil, Law, Knowledge, Magic, Trickery
Subdomains: Deception, Discipline, Divine, Slavery, Thought
Favored Weapon: Unarmed strike or tentacle

The mind flayers themselves do not know if Ilsensine is their creator or if he merely “adopted” them, but regardless the God-Brain epitomizes everything the illithids strive to be: pure thought, unfettered from physical constraints and bent on the domination of all minds in creation. Almost all illithids venerate Ilsensine, though outright worship is uncommon: to most illithids, Ilsensine is an ideal to strive for, not a cause to dedicate onesself to. Most mind flayer cities, cells, or ships contain a shrine to Ilsensine. The rare temples of the God-Brain are complex networks of curving halls patterned after the tangled gray matter of a humanoid brain. Its unholy symbol is an illithid’s head grasping the world in its tentacles.

Ilsensine’s priesthood is small and secretive, and many cults contain more psychics than clerics. Priests of Ilsensine are respected but not envied, because they forgo the honor of joining with their community’s elder brain upon death, instead allowing their spirits to join Ilsensine in his otherworldly realm, the Caverns of Thought on the Astral Plane. Ilsensine’s priesthood is devoted to archiving the history and knowledge of the illithids, as well as honing their mental powers to their utmost potential. Their ability to control the undead (which are immune to most telepathic attacks) makes them feared by other illithids.

On rare occasions, cults of Ilsensine crop up among human psychics. These deviant cults seek to emulate mind flayers, sometimes even cannibalizing other humans’ brains, and are often led by an illithid cleric.

Ilsensine is a being of pure mental energy with no real form, but when it deigns to communicate with its followers, it projects the form of a massive green brain with thousands of ganglia trailing off into the distance.

MAANZECORIAN
The Keeper
Deity of knowledge and secrets
Alignment: Lawful evil
Domains: Darkness, Evil, Knowledge, Law, Rune
Subdomains: Devil, Language, Loss, Memory, Thought
Favored Weapon: Quarterstaff

Unlike Ilsensine, Maanzecorian’s origin is known to all mind flayers. Once the greatest psychic ever to rise in the primordial Illithid Empire, Maanzecorian ascended to godhood with Ilsensine’s sponsorship and has served as the God-Brain’s loyal advisor ever since. Maanzecorian is deferential to Ilsensine, and his priesthood, though smaller, is given equal respect in illithid culture. His unholy symbol is a silver crown set with a red gem.

Maanzecorian is a god of philosophy and secrets, concerned with the pursuit and exploitation of knowledge. His priesthood, consisting almost equally of clerics, psychics, and occultists, believes that other races may possess knowledge of use to mind flayers, and may even diplomatically approach non-illithids for exchanges of information; however, they still see other beings as potential slaves or food, and quickly betray their allies when they are no longer of use. As a god of secrets, a rare few illithid wizards and sorcerers, heretics among the rest of their kind, pray to Maanzecorian to conceal their activities and grant them deeper arcane knowledge.

Maanzecorian appears as a towering ulitharid with greenish skin and yellowed tusks on either side of his eight tentacles, a silver crown with a blinding red gem levitating above his head.

THOON
All
Deity of constructs and quintessence
Alignment: Neutral evil
Domains: Artifice, Evil, Madness, Void, War
Subdomains: Blood, Construct, Dark Tapestry, Insanity, Toil
Favored Weapon: Heavy flail

Mind flayers are known to cross the vast gulfs of the Dark Tapestry in their nautiloid ships, and it was on one such excursion through interstellar space that a fleet of illithids on a mission of exploration came in contact with the unspeakable force they named Thoon. These illithids returned (or were sent back) warped in mind and body, fanatically devoted to the worship of Thoon, which they described alternately as either a god or philosophy. When questioned, they answer only that “Thoon is Thoon, and Thoon is all.” Thoon’s priests claim to receive mental instructions from this mysterious force, but whether Thoon truly speaks to them or they are simply mad, few can say. The fact that Thoon’s clerics receive power from this alien source, however, is not in doubt.

Using their strange visions and mental instructions, the mind flayers of Thoon animate horrific constructs and travel the planets and planes in search of a substance they call quintessence, a life-giving energy radiated by a rare few living beings. Not all creatures of the same race contain quintessence, but the illithids’ constructs are designed to sense it within them. Once detected and secured, the quintessence is extracted, killing the victim and preventing it from returning from the dead with any spell less than true resurrection. The quintessence, distilled into a glowing green fluid, is then used to power more Thoon constructs.

The mind flayers of Thoon terrify other illithids, who see the Thoon flayers as heretics against Ilsensine and fear the spread of their alien philosophy. The illithids of Thoon seek to spread their faith by the sword, destroying the elder brains of other illithid communities and subverting its tadpoles, and the sight of heavily-armored clerics of Thoon sends an illithid community into an uproar as they scramble to destroy the interlopers.

The true nature of Thoon is unknown. The few human scholars who know of it guess that it may be a heretofore unknown Outer God, akin to Azathoth and Nyarlathotep, but this is only crude supposition. Its unholy symbol is a simple green metallic disc.

Posted By: Surface R Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 11/11/20 09:32 PM
Yes well, as i said, and that mural throws in our faces as the first thing we see - the supposed Illithid deities should be considered. But as that lore says neither the more official deity, nor the other one are very clear even to Illithids themselves and remain cagey, mysterious and somewhat hidden. Connections to the Astral plane abound.

What we have seen so far in the EA points out to a more complicated plot with several forces involved. Which i prefer and like so i hope the main plot will continue on that trajectory.

However, if one would seek a malevolent force much greater and older then the Dead Three, and with even bigger grudges against everything, that would be Shar.
Who also already pulled off "pretending to be other god" trick to exact her vengeance.
And also - "Shar eventually made allies of Bane and a patsy of Cyric in 1374 DR. Together, their followers attempted to conquer Myth Drannor "

Her bitter fight against Selune and the whole universe would fit with the name "Absolute", as in someone who denies other forces are as great or as important.

Also;

"Shar killed Ibrandul, a lesser deity of caverns, dungeons, and the Underdark, as an act of pure opportunism. She continues to grant spells to clerics in the name of Ibrandul, reveling in the deceit of the entire affair."

What do we get to play with immediately? The Underdark - right under the defiled temple of - Selune.

What is changing the tadpoles? Shadow magic.

Auntie Ethel being too scared of it to even touch it... and who would frighten such a hag, eh?

Plus, fool Gale thinks he was so special Mystra herself came down to sex him up. Ha. Ha. And what did he get out of it? An orb of magic eating - cities or continents destroying Netherese - shadow magic - primordial weave - from an Astral plane.

Plus she knows the fetherfall spell.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: ash elemental Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 12/11/20 06:19 PM
After giving it a bit more thought, I think that when the character keeps using those tadpole powers, it's

not the shield blocking the absolute that is getting weaker, but rather the tadpole itself is getting stronger, allowing it to get through. Only a little bit at first, which is why the absolute can visit the main character in dreams, because this is when their conciousness is not in full control. But "feed" the tadpole enough and it'll break through completely.
Posted By: PraiseThanos Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 12/11/20 06:35 PM
My guess? A person making a power play Like some others have said. Someone (probably a woman as the Absolute is usually referred to as a goddess) got their hands on powerful Netherese magic. Clearly they are aiming to get all the benefits of the mind flayer tadpoles without having the hosts turn into mindflayers.

My personal question is how long we will have the tadpoles in us, assuming we want to get them out in the end.
Posted By: Surface R Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 12/11/20 07:19 PM
Its not a person, a mortal, thats for sure. The way whole thing is talked about, the actual spells priesthood gains, the fear tadpole causes to even someone like ancient hags...

Its a god-ess. If BG games have a common thread its the "Gods play their games with mortals" theme. One of the dead three played the main villain role in the originals, the signs of the whole dead three are all over the start of the game - but they are not enough anymore, because they have been reduced and simply repeating the story of the originals all over again would be dumb and cheap. One of the most basic things sequels try to do is to top the previous movies or games or stories.
The presence and influence of Shar is all over the story. From companions to whole sections of game world. And she already used the dead three as her pawns, killed and impersonated other gods, including giving their spells and powers to the priests to maintain the charade.
Posted By: ash elemental Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 12/11/20 07:24 PM
Originally Posted by PraiseThanos
Clearly they are aiming to get all the benefits of the mind flayer tadpoles without having the hosts turn into mindflayers.

The opposite is hinted at in the game.

The Underdark "scholar" tells you that as soon as the stasis gets removed the transformation will be instant. Imo this is the fate Raphael hints at, and also why he is so sure that the PC will be willing to make a deal with him in the end.


Might be a plot similar to some extent to the doppelgangers in BG1.

Edit: I'd also add that the BG games don't have a common theme of 'gods playing with mortals'. Other deities are forbidden from interfering directly in the Bhaalspawn conflict. The common theme is the antagonist trying to achieve godhood.
Posted By: Surface R Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 12/11/20 07:56 PM
Yeah i didnt mean any game, obviously, but the game like Bhaal tried to play for his own gains, being under threat of armagedon, personal existence in risk and all. That kind of "gods playing games with mortals" done by an evil deity for his own purposes.
Sarevok was only trying to achieve godhood because he was egotistic and power hungry. It wasnt the main underlying theme of the games but one of the major consequences of the game Bhaal played. Similar to Irenicus and Bodhi, who wanted that power to escape their faiths.

But it all starts with a game one God tries to play by using mortals, giving them powers, making them think they can even cheat, use those powers simply for themselves, etc, etc.
Thats the underlying theme, the source of all thats happening later on.
Posted By: ash elemental Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 12/11/20 08:17 PM
If you are talking about the Dead Three, then this is also a story about mortals achieving godhood. And it is not the source of everything that happens later on. For example, Irenicus has lost his elven spirit (or whatever it was they have), because he tried to usurp the power of the tree of life. Failing on that, he tries to get divinity again by stealing the divine soul of a Bhaalspawn first.

The initiative starts with mortals. Bhaal was mortal too, before he became a god. This is how the story starts: the Dead Three make a pact: they will become gods or die trying.
Posted By: KillerRabbit Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 12/11/20 08:26 PM
I agree with@ash elemental's point. We also saw that on the nautaloid itself. One push of a button and *bam* instant transformation.

I'm not sure what to do with the mural that @surface R has posted. The underdark mindflayer tells us that nautaloids can no longer be made and are relics of days of empire. So is that mural an Ozymandius like mural or a vital clue? If the later then that would point to Ilsensine if the former it could point to Vlaakith or the dead three.

I had originally dismissed Vlaakith but some spoilers in the datamining thread have made me reconsider.
Posted By: Surface R Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 12/11/20 08:33 PM
No it doesnt, obviously. It starts with you and Gorion trying to escape Candlekeep because one Bhaalspawn thought he can get Bhaal juice and become cool. Failed miserably. Bhall profited from all of it - which was his plan all along.
We never played the Dead three rise to power - which, btw, only happened because Jergal decided to go along with it - for his own reasons.
The story of Irenicus was not a direct continuation of Bhaalspawn saga, but it did provide another consequence of it and if anything its a continuation of Sarevok story.
There is no "initiative starts with mortals" - at all in original games. You are hallucinating and denying reality. Mortals are only reacting and scrambling to Gods games, while inevitably playing right into them one way or another.

One of the ways mortals react to such powers becoming available is to say "F you Gods ill take all of it muahahaha!"

Buts thats a consequence.

Posted By: ash elemental Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 12/11/20 08:40 PM
Originally Posted by Surface R

There is no "initiative starts with mortals" - at all in original games. You are hallucinating and denying reality.

And you are unable to hold a civil conversation.
Posted By: KillerRabbit Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 12/11/20 08:42 PM
@Vhaldez

Thanks! I had never heard of THOON before. Makes me

(datamining)

think about the importance of the warforged PC that is in the code
Posted By: Surface R Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 12/11/20 08:57 PM
As always, when one looses his argument because he argues from completely nonsensical and blatantly unreal ludicrous angle, the only thing left are accusations of incivility and other ad hominems.
Which goes along with egoism really well, which is why you live in hallucinations of personal empowerment and fantasies of "initiative by mortals"... and why you take dismemberment of your ludicrous arguments as something personal. Buddy, i was super mild with you there.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 13/11/20 03:02 PM
Quite the accumulation of adjectives. Let's not derail the thread by personal conflicts.

I initially assumed the box to be a device primarily connected to Shadowhearts origins story. Seeing the Shar Temple in the Underdark and all the possible connections makes me call that into question. It seems quite obvious now that the whole Shar/Githyanki plot is connected with the Absolute arc. Is the gith patrol looking for the artifact in service of Vlaakith or are they a rouge group allied with the

general?

Do we have a clear link between the arcs yet or just a collection of hints revolving around shadow magic?
I guess the dead three are looking for a no limits approach to godhood, Shar could not provide that. Maybe both are toying with involving some far realm entity in the affairs of Faerun?
An ulikely option:

The gith general seems to be aware of what is going on. Could he be guiding the group towards Moonrise because he could escape there? The option to hand the box to the gith does not mean that we won't meet him again if they are his followers. They do speak of the box as a weapon, but not in a grudging way
Posted By: Sadurian Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 13/11/20 03:35 PM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
Quite the accumulation of adjectives. Let's not derail the thread by personal conflicts.

What the Armoured Hedgehog said.

Play nice.
Posted By: Surface R Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 13/11/20 04:35 PM
There is no definite link between the arcs. Just hints and bits and pieces.

One small but interesting one i encountered in the new game. When you find a diary in the Blighted village and read it, it triggers the first of Shadowheart strange "magical" reactions, with her hands shaking and glowing.
You also find a skeleton with ancient Shar helmet right there. And in the few written pieces of info the hiding Thay wizard kept you find that a group of "dark knights" visited and even attacked the village. Which very well could be dark justicars which... went into the Underdark, and so on. Then there are the paintings in the Grove of Druids and Selune fighting the dark - Shar forces.
Then the desecrated Selune temple.
And on and on.

I dont think we would get so much pointers toward Shar if she wasnt involved. And if she is, she is running things. She is a major primordial diety, not just another god and has used the dead three for her own ends before to kill Mystra no less and cause a whole sundering of the Universe. And she represented herself as another god, which i already said. The Ilsensine god of the mindflayers is said to just appeared out of nowhere at one time, after a duergar uprising that nearly destroyed them completely. What a coincidence.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 13/11/20 04:48 PM
Originally Posted by Surface R
There is no definite link between the arcs. Just hints and bits and pieces.

One small but interesting one i encountered in the new game. When you find a diary in the Blighted village and read it, it triggers the first of Shadowheart strange "magical" reactions, with her hands shaking and glowing.
You also find a skeleton with ancient Shar helmet right there. And in the few written pieces of info the hiding Thay wizard kept you find that a group of "dark knights" visited and even attacked the village. Which very well could be dark justicars which... went into the Underdark, and so on. Then there are the paintings in the Grove of Druids and Selune fighting the dark - Shar forces.
Then the desecrated Selune temple.
And on and on.

I dont think we would get so much pointers toward Shar if she wasnt involved. And if she is, she is running things. She is a major primordial diety, not just another god and has used the dead three for her own ends before to kill Mystra no less and cause a whole sundering of the Universe. And she represented herself as another god, which i already said. The Ilsensine god of the mindflayers is said to just appeared out of nowhere at one time, after a duergar uprising that nearly destroyed them completely. What a coincidence.



The land used to be under Shar's control centuries ago before the Druids/Selûnites showed up. The Druids defeated them. Then Halsin did something stupid which caused the Dark Justiciars to attack again. The Druids + Harper helpers "defeated" them again but not before the leader cursed the area around the Moonrise Towers. That was about a century ago. That's less or more the story on the Grove murals and a few books/notes found in the Grove.

That's just background information about the region and it gives insight in the motivation of certain NPCs like Halsin. It all pre-date the Absolute by like 100+ years.
Posted By: Surface R Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 13/11/20 05:09 PM
Sure, there is a history of Shar involvement in the area. That doesnt contradict my suspicions at all. Infact it strengthens them because Shar would obviously have a very good reason for vengeance on that whole area and the Grove and the Druids.

The Blighted village destruction is more recent, (i think) and i wouldnt be surprised if Shadowheart was one of the children that started missing from the village - also a bit of info found in one of the written documents you find there. I think its the diary that gets Shadowheart strange shaking.
Posted By: ash elemental Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 13/11/20 05:34 PM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog

I guess the dead three are looking for a no limits approach to godhood, Shar could not provide that. Maybe both are toying with involving some far realm entity in the affairs of Faerun?

The main issue with having Bhaal or Shar, or Vlaakith, act as an ally of the absolute, is that you can play a cleric of one. So here you are, a powerful evil deity running an elaborate scheme to gain more power, while one of you lowly level one acolytes is doing their best to ruin it? Which the player character can do, even unknowingly.

At the beginning of BG1 one if the big hints is a book about the dead three your character is given. So now I've been looking at the books in BG3 and there are some interesting tomes, e.g. The unclaimed, about a forgotten cleric of Shar. The book ends with the following lesson ”That not of forgetting, but being forgotten." I wonder whether it's therefore not something long forgotten making a comeback here, which only the truly old ones like Shar would remember. Don't githyanki build their cities on dead gods (my gith wizard claimed sth like that in dialogue)?
Posted By: Surface R Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 13/11/20 05:42 PM
How exactly and why Shar couldnt "provide approach" to godhood?

Limited or unlimited.... whatever that means. What does that sentence even mean, at all? Its proclaimed as if its a fact of some kind, so surely its something thats absolutely established? But in what sense, really? What does it mean?
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 13/11/20 06:48 PM
The dead three lost their godhood because they trespassed the boundaries of what Ao deems acceptable behaviour. Their godhood was limited because it was subject to an overgod ending it. An unlimited godhood would be one that could not be limited by any other entity. Shar is a member of the Faerunian pantheon and could therefore not grant powers to others which she does not possess herself.
If the dead three want "absolute" power with unlimited meddling in the affairs of Faerun they would be forced to pursue a novel path to becoming a new kind of Deity.
I hope that explains what I meant
Posted By: Surface R Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 13/11/20 08:36 PM
Its really difficult to say what the dead three may want as the ultimate goal - and although some kind of unlimited godhood may be a distant goal there are necessary steps toward it. We can only guess based on their previous behavior. Shar has an even bigger grudge to hold and she would also very probably prefer to evade being under the control of Ao. Although she is by all accounts also on the side of destroying the whole Toril/Faerun and everything else. One other way to evade being under Ao control is to somehow destroy him. But those are some really high end goals. Wild Speculations at best.

If we look at the current situation, Shar has been greatly weakened as were the Dead three so their first immediate concern in getting their previous powers back.

"The Dead Three, greatly reduced in power, decided to remain on Toril, living as quasi-divine mortals, to spread the word of their return, gather more worshipers, and influence events in their favor. Bane led the trio in these efforts." Shar rebuild her power and dominion in the Astral plane. She had already previously impersonated other gods, killed other gods, used Bane and Cyric to kill Mystra, caused the spell plague and so on.

It seems more or less obvious that she and the dead three are involved in the cult of the Absolute. The only question remains whether there is any other additional deity or two in the game, or if the Ilsensine is just another of Shar impersonations created to gain influence over Illithids and their special capabilities such as tadpoles present.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 15/11/20 04:22 PM
The book of the dead gods mentions that severaly names on the last page have been stricken, the last three completely. I assume that the last three are the dead three.
As their names are not in alphabetical order the book uses a different system of grouping. Can we assume that all of the gods on that page were connected?
That would indicate that some of the others are part of the complot.
I guess pretty much every god floating in the astral plane could be brought back somehow.
What is in it for the illithids is one of the big questions. If they had indeed lost the nautiloid designs and someone helped them to build new ones that would be
worth a great deal for them. No nautiloids, no astral empire. The gith must be very alarmed by the prospect. There really should be a dialogue option to tell the
Gith with the dragon about the mindflayer vision of a nautiloid invasion. A few dozen red dragons would certainly help to keep the illithids at bay.
Posted By: Verte Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 15/11/20 04:32 PM
Not sure if he would trust us, tadpoled nonames (at least in the Gith's eyes). He could just simply assume we are ghaik's tools.
Posted By: Taramafor Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 16/11/20 12:35 PM
Originally Posted by ash elemental
Originally Posted by Taramafor
Quote
All of the Bhaalspawn are dead. This was necessary for the rebirth of Bhaal, which happened in the table top adventure Murder in Baldur’s Gate.

You're comparing board game logic to computer game logic. Don't assume that will apply here. Nothing in Baldur's gate computer games has ever given any indication of ALL children of Bhaal being wiped out. For we know we could be playing as one. .


I think there was a statue of an illithid in the ending cinematics of BG1. Though I'm not quite sure, it has been some time since I've played the game. But you never meet an illithid Bhaalspawn in BG2, so maybe ut remained hidden all this time... until now. :P



Hmm... put a bhallspawn in an illusion of where they can murder? Such things have been done in games before after all. But man, would you have sex with a mindflay- actually, that's a good point. That's not how they reproduce. Which means a mindflayer can't be. Not unless... Do you think Bhall might have done things other then sleep with people to spread his children around? There's a thought... If everyone is so focused on the children yet see a mindflayer that reproduces through tadpoles and turning other races into mindflayers...

Doubt it's the route they'll go with. But it has gotten me thinking. What better way to keep a Bhallspawn of pure anger trapped then to have it in an illusion where they keep fighting?

We also see a clone of Icaris's... complicated love interest? In BG2. This could be implying something. Though what exactly I'm not sure. He was after all obsessed with the power of bhaal.
Posted By: Vhaldez Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 16/11/20 12:56 PM
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
@Vhaldez

Thanks! I had never heard of THOON before. Makes me

(datamining)

think about the importance of the warforged PC that is in the code
Me too. There is hardly anything to go on regarding the
Rare and bestial races at the moment, including the birdpeople, catmen and the lizardfolk
but even barring that, there is also this to consider;
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 17/11/20 05:06 PM
Would the Gith trust us? Probably not. But we should have the option to tell him. The situation is dangerous and they cannot afford to completely ignore clues, even if they are suspicious of the person they got them from.
As the

Bhaalspawn slayer

is in the game files there will be an appearance. Bhaal is still around and involved with the tadpoles. What if the tadpoled absolute followers turn into illithid slayers under total mind control by the absolute.
Posted By: Dee_MogII Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 18/11/20 10:44 AM
Has it been mentioned yet that The Absolute is the woman who has been narrating our actions throughout the game? It'd be silly, but very meta if she turned out to be a DM. x)
Posted By: ash elemental Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 18/11/20 11:21 AM
Icewind Dale already did this.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 18/11/20 12:54 PM
Originally Posted by Dee_MogII
Has it been mentioned yet that The Absolute is the woman who has been narrating our actions throughout the game? It'd be silly, but very meta if she turned out to be a DM. x)


The narrator in BG1/BG2 is Sarevok's voice actor.
Posted By: Dee_MogII Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 18/11/20 09:21 PM
Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by Dee_MogII
Has it been mentioned yet that The Absolute is the woman who has been narrating our actions throughout the game? It'd be silly, but very meta if she turned out to be a DM. x)


The narrator in BG1/BG2 is Sarevok's voice actor.


Originally Posted by ash elemental
Icewind Dale already did this.



That's right! Could be that's what's being referenced? smile
Posted By: Taramafor Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/11/20 05:10 AM
Originally Posted by Dee_MogII
Has it been mentioned yet that The Absolute is the woman who has been narrating our actions throughout the game? It'd be silly, but very meta if she turned out to be a DM. x)


Again, the intro refers to the absolute as a group. "Absolute unity."

If they have a leader it's only to lead the flock itself. But the absolute is more of an idea. A leader you can just kill. But an idea? Much more difficult. That's why the absolute has as much power it does.

As for the absolute itself, someone could be pulling the strings. But they might not be part of the absolute itself. I suspect that's where this is going. Especially since it's already been hinted that the netherese are behind it when trying to find a cure.
Posted By: Verte Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/11/20 10:04 AM
Originally Posted by Surface R
After more playing it feels to me that Shar might be the main culprit, if there is a main. But the dead Three are certainly involved in some way. It may be they made some kind of a pact with Shar, because they are not as strong and powerful anymore, and Shar has her own issues and goals. Several characters describe Absolute as female and i dont think the dead three would easily go for such pretending.

The devils are obviously an outside force in this. Its not their game but they do have interests in it.

Apart from that the only unclear thing is whats the deal with presumed Illithid diety. Is it an actual deity or an impostor.
The mural that is the first thing we see in the game makes it definite there is some sort of religious thing going on with Illithids,although it may be just a part of Illithids, not all of them.

[Linked Image]

There is an elder brain out of whom the chosen one comes forth holding the special staff above kneeling and bowing multitudes.
I have no idea what are the things on the left and right of the figure with the staff, the creatures with two big legs and long tails, bent so their big triangular heads touch the floor. Anyone knows?

-edit-

On a second look, those might be humans leaning back with their shoulders but their heads are unclear. The tentacles , not tails, would then be behind them.

The crowd is also humanoid on the left and right and only the middle row are Illithids.




Bhaalspawn slayers?
Posted By: Ellenhard Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/11/20 10:16 AM
Cyric (one of the Dead Three) holds the portfolio of Lies and a Trickery Domain. His interference can explain a lot.

For now, I'd say it would be nice to see a power play between the Dead Three (who may turn on each other easily, especially closer to the culmination), Shar, Vlaakith, Iolaum, and some devilish powers to boot. It's the one boiling pot with many turns and twists along the way. Or it is a wishful belief that Larian writers can hatch a truly epic plot and not get their wings cut in the process, by Hasbro or whoever.
Posted By: Riful Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/11/20 11:01 AM
Originally Posted by Ellenhard
Cyric (one of the Dead Three) holds the portfolio of Lies and a Trickery Domain. His interference can explain a lot.

The Dead Three includes Bane, Myrkul and Bhaal, not Cyric. Besides, by the time of BG3 events Cyric lost most of his portfolio (especially the part related to death) and is imprisoned in his plane.
Posted By: Ellenhard Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/11/20 11:09 AM
Originally Posted by Riful
Originally Posted by Ellenhard
Cyric (one of the Dead Three) holds the portfolio of Lies and a Trickery Domain. His interference can explain a lot.

The Dead Three includes Bane, Myrkul and Bhaal, not Cyric. Besides, by the time of BG3 events Cyric lost most of his portfolio (especially the part related to death) and is imprisoned in his plane.


My bad, thank you for correcting me. Was it in novels, or somewhere else? Who is holding the Portfolio of Lies now, then?

Edit: actually, that would be even more interesting, with Cyric being outside but still plotting, and acting through intermediaries. If he is still a Prince of Lies.
Posted By: Riful Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 19/11/20 11:54 AM
Originally Posted by Ellenhard
Was it in novels, or somewhere else? Who is holding the Portfolio of Lies now, then?

The portfolio of lies still belongs to Cyric, but now it's his sole portfolio. His imprisonment is mentioned in "The Grand History of the Realms", though I can't say when exactly other parts of his portfolio were returned to resurrected gods. Or how Myrkul and Kelemvor are supposed to share the same portfolio of the god of death now.
Posted By: ReeceMichael1 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 20/11/20 01:33 AM
So I bought the game and started it. My character is stuck and will not move as soon as game starts. I can rotate camera and open menus but my character is a statue.

--Spam links removed by moderation--
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 21/11/20 06:01 PM
The narrator could be a clue. She does not sound like someone completely neutral.

As
Sylvira Savikas

is likely to show up in the game some things are interesting:
She is an expert on magical puzzle boxes (The gith box) and the outer planes (illithid and forgotten gods connection?)
She lives in Candlekeep so we might revisit the place. A tiefling wizard, infernal contracts, outer planes.
That ties in nicely with some of the speculation here.

The devs also hinted that we would visit another plane and there is a diary entry referring to a strange place that the party seems to get teleported to


Cyric seems to be unable to get involved with much right now. I guess the dead three and some ilithid entity with netherese connections are the most likely candidates right now
Posted By: SpookyNai Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 22/11/20 04:29 AM
In that opening cutscene mural, the staff that the mindflayer is holding kind of looks like the Staff of the Moonmaiden that you find where the big battle happened in the Underdark.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 24/11/20 11:08 PM
A connection between Selune and the Mindflayers would be surprising. But the staff is curious as Mindflayers tend to rely on their psionic powers. What would a Mindflayer do with a staff? It can't just be a symbol of authority because they read each others thoughts and know who he is anyway. Something to extend the range of his control? They want their astral empire back, so they need Nautiloids. But do they need something else to enable communication over extreme distances and between planes?
There is an Interview hinting at a visit to another plane (likely not Avernus) so who knows.
Posted By: Priest Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 25/11/20 02:17 AM
Originally Posted by ArmouredHedgehog
What would a Mindflayer do with a staff?


Mind flayers sometimes use staves, particularly if they are illithiliches (any sort of arcane staves) or ulitharids (extractor staves). Official art has a few examples.

Another example is the staff of Ancient Penumbra, a psionically-powered staff and artefact with strong ties to the ancient world, Penumbra.
Posted By: dza101 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 25/11/20 07:08 PM
Originally Posted by Riful
Originally Posted by Ellenhard
Was it in novels, or somewhere else? Who is holding the Portfolio of Lies now, then?

The portfolio of lies still belongs to Cyric, but now it's his sole portfolio. His imprisonment is mentioned in "The Grand History of the Realms", though I can't say when exactly other parts of his portfolio were returned to resurrected gods. Or how Myrkul and Kelemvor are supposed to share the same portfolio of the god of death now.



i think kelemvor is the god of "the dead" and myrkul is the god (or demigod or whatever) of "death"
Posted By: KillerRabbit Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 25/11/20 07:31 PM
The god of the undead smile It'spart of the portfolio that Kelemvor refuses to take over. It's essentially a power vacuum story. Unless someone else takes up the portfolios of murder, the undead and death-is-the-ultimate-tryant the dead three will keep coming back.
Posted By: Eldath Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 25/11/20 07:41 PM
I think Larian is going to pull an Obsidian and basically create a Mask of the Betrayer type of story.
Basically the Dead Three come up with the idea of the Absolute, which is a Mask of ultimate authority that they all give their power to and then spread the religion as far and wide as possible to increase it's power and then they share it equally (lol) which will obviously not work out because they are all scheming bastards. They ultimately want to become the Absolute One, who is actually Three (where have I heard this before?) which obviously pisses off all other deities because that would infringe upon their domain.
Good deities will simply oppose them face to face, while evil deities instead will try to subvert them so that they can take hold of the Mask that is the "Absolute" so they can grab a huge chunk of power for themselves.
Shar and Lolth will both be meddling because they have much to lose if they simply let the other one do their own thing and sitting back (Lolth hates Shar's guts now because Shar took over the portfolio of caverns and the underdark, and Shar naturally expects Lolth to meddle, so she will try to cross her). Cyric is out of the picture because he is in prison. Kelemvor probably has an interest in keeping the dead three in check because they have portfolios closely related to his own. Vlaakith is still not a deity and maybe she hopes to become one.

Basically I think that by the end of the story we will decide who gets to be the absolute. We will be Godmakers (kinda like in PoE).

I expect to be courted by several high level deities. Maybe Jergal wants his powers back?
At any rate the story seems to be about a civil war amongst the evil deities for the most part.
Posted By: Riful Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 25/11/20 10:00 PM
Seeing how the talkative skeleton is reluctant to do almost anything, I think that getting back his powers is the last thing Jergal ever wanted. grin
Posted By: Leuenherz Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 25/11/20 10:07 PM
Originally Posted by Riful
Seeing how the talkative skeleton is reluctant to do almost anything, I think that getting back his powers is the last thing Jergal ever wanted. grin


True. The only reason Jergal let the Dead Three have his portfolio to begin with, is because he was tired of his duties.
Posted By: OneManArmy Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 27/11/20 11:04 PM

I have a theory that when we see the Absolute in person, it will be the same person who appears to us in a dream. Something similar to the illusion of a witch in a swamp near a teahouse
Posted By: T2aV Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 28/11/20 07:03 PM
The absolute is the Raven Queen
Posted By: Phea Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 28/11/20 07:20 PM
My first thought was some powerful elder brain, so basically illithids hive mind. Or, I don't know, an elder brain which has achieved divinity? Not very subtle but obvious answer, at least for me.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 02/12/20 10:01 PM
The elder brain idea is one of the more popular ones in the thread. Maybe the whole Absolute thing is a bit like what the Kuo Toa are doing: Making their gods real by belief. But this time Bhaal, Myrkul and Bane are doing what the Redcap in the underdark is doing on a small scale.
A mindflayer god could also be involved in the plot. Lots of hints but nothing definitive so far
Posted By: StrongDwarvenAle Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 05/01/21 10:53 PM
If we can suppose that Ceremorphosis not only destroys the host's soul, but in doing so provides that soul's "essence" to the newborn Mind Flayer... and maybe ultimately to that illithid's Elder Brain, then I have a twist on these Absolute theories.

My guess is that The Absolute is: An Elder Brain that has absorbed or been altered by Amelyssan. This makes a lot of things fit. Perhaps she survived the destruction of the Throne of Blood and got picked up floating in the Astral Plane by that nautiloid or the Githyanki?

New Elder Brain Melissan is preparing to, or maybe already has, eaten the brains and souls of Bane and Myrkul (who were quasi-divine mortals on Toril, I believe.) It could be something she learns can be done to the Chosen or weakened mortal forms of any deities.

Anyway, in keeping with the saga, it would be traditional if Bhaal mojo is the missing ingredient in her stew when we begin the story.

Amelyssan could be the prophesied Illithid "Adversary." They ate her, but she retained her personality or will to some degree. She discovered that Ceremorphosizng the Chosen or the Quasi-Divine is a way to get what she wanted previously: To keep the Bhaal essence for herself and become a Goddess.

This time around, she's taking power from all of the Dead Three. In a way, the Absolute is becoming all of them as they are "absorbed." It can be simultaneously true that the Absolute is Bane, Myrkul, Bhaal, anyone else she's eaten, "she," "it," "he," "they," etc.

Quite possibly other deities' Chosen, or weakened Quasi-Divines are potential targets, which could tie in some Origin Characters. (Selune? Mystra? Bane's subjects like Maglubliyet might also be on the menu for the new Super-Illithid-Amelyssan too..)
,
I am not sure if the resistance to Ceremorphosis is a part of her plan, if it is a natural resistance that Chosen types have, if it is a protective measure by another power, or if it is part of a Githyanki plot to sterilize all Mind Flayers. (???) At any rate, She really wants you to break through that resistance and let her tadpole take over.

Some clues that I think support this:
- There are authoritative sources giving gender as "She" and also "It/Sexless." Both of these can be true, in a way, if Amelyssan's mind/will has taken over an Elder Brain. Also fits the narrator is the villain tradition.
- The Absolute Talisman image seems clearly a merging of the Bane and Myrkul symbols.
- The keen interest from Diabolical higher-ups/Raphael. I suspect it messes up contracts for souls if these souls get "eaten" by mind flayers.
-- Perhaps Amelyssan or an NPC would actually be evading a contract with a Devil this way. This could involve Gale and/or Thay. I believe Ssass Tam had a 1000-year term with an Archdevil on his soul.

--

I am not an FR Loremaster, and this theory needs details, but I think it's close.
Posted By: Dexai Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/01/21 09:09 AM
There is only one thing Absolute in the world, and that is Death; And Death -- is Bhaal.
Posted By: 0Muttley0 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 29/05/21 01:42 PM
According to the torturer in the goblin camp the Absolute is searching for a weapon
Posted By: cool-dude01 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 13/06/21 03:54 PM
Probably the dead three, since the Absolutes symbol is a combination of each ones symbol. The Skelton guy you meet who speaks like a King James bible, is also probably Jergul in my opinion.
Posted By: Bufotenina Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 26/06/21 08:00 PM
In the end I have to go with this hypothesis (and how a strong defender of the originality of BG3), but after I watched the end of DOS 2, I have, with utmost difficulty, say this:

(end of divinity 2)
Tarquin and Malady.

In all the endings the necromancer stats that he's interested into a new plan of existence, yeo plane of existence, full with mind eaters entities, and Malady is a demon who can travel between planes of existence. Furthermore in some endings the Lizard race comes out strong and they can use dragons, something that reminds me that the Gynthaki ar antropomorphic reptilians that ride dragons, so they can be a future evolution of the lizard people of Rivellion



:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D


[Sorry to Larian's programmers but I have to laugh laugh ]
Posted By: GM4Him Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 27/06/21 01:11 AM
I had a theory that the Absolute is Melissan from BG2 TOB. She had absorbed a great portion of Bhaal. The Absolute is a female, or so they called her a she. Perhaps she has absorbed the portfolios of the Dead Three, becoming the new Jergal.
Posted By: azarhal Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 28/06/21 02:30 PM
Originally Posted by GM4Him
I had a theory that the Absolute is Melissan from BG2 TOB. She had absorbed a great portion of Bhaal. The Absolute is a female, or so they called her a she. Perhaps she has absorbed the portfolios of the Dead Three, becoming the new Jergal.

While many refer to the Absolute as "She", there a few goblins in the game who use "He".
Posted By: GM4Him Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 28/06/21 02:33 PM
Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by GM4Him
I had a theory that the Absolute is Melissan from BG2 TOB. She had absorbed a great portion of Bhaal. The Absolute is a female, or so they called her a she. Perhaps she has absorbed the portfolios of the Dead Three, becoming the new Jergal.

While many refer to the Absolute as "She", there a few goblins in the game who use "He".

Hmmm... I don't recall anyone calling the Absolute a "He", but either way... If Mellisan has absorbed the essences of 3 male dead gods, she might refer to herself mostly as a "She" but sometimes also as a "He".

Anyway. Just a theory. It would certainly tie BG1 and 2 to 3 very closely.
Posted By: GM4Him Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 28/06/21 02:39 PM
Originally Posted by 0Muttley0
According to the torturer in the goblin camp the Absolute is searching for a weapon

I think the weapon is YOU, the MC, and your party of "special" people. Some have argued that none of the companions are normal, regular people. I think there's a reason for it. I think the entire party was "Chosen" by the Absolute for a reason. They are like a collective. Magic Pockets, shared thoughts, even if a party member isn't present, they know what you've said and pass judgment on your decisions. At one point, Shadowheart tells you that a voice in her head called her a "Beautiful Weapon." The goblins who enter the secret tunnels with Findal the Gnome Druid were sent to search for "a weapon". Ed's siblings tell you that they were sent, along with many others, to search for survivors from the crash. They are looking to gather all the True Souls.

Then, if you choose to use Illithid powers, the Dream Lover shows up and calls you Chosen. So, I think it's pretty clear that YOU and your companions are the weapon. You are one collective unit that the Absolute is hoping She can use in some special way.

I don't know. I could be totally wrong, but it sounds a lot like Mellisan in BG2 TOB. Who did she manipulate and use to fulfill her purpose? YOU, the player, the most powerful of all Bhaalspawn who was, from birth, infected with some sort of strange, other-worldly powers. Who is the Absolute using? YOU, the player, someone infected with some sort of strange, other-worldly powers.
Posted By: Dtelm Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 29/06/21 06:44 PM
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Then, if you choose to use Illithid powers, the Dream Lover shows up and calls you Chosen. So, I think it's pretty clear that YOU and your companions are the weapon. You are one collective unit that the Absolute is hoping She can use in some special way.

About 10 pages into this thread, and starting a PT where i plan to take as many notes as possible on some of these theories. Intuitively though, I agree with this assessment. I get the sense that the party characters are being groomed in some capacity...
Though I think it's less benign than simply desiring to mold you into a weapon. Somebody or something is interested in your vessel, i don't think they plan on letting you keep it.
Posted By: Neuleser Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 17/07/21 01:02 PM
The new Patch 5 content features what appears to be the first encounter with the Absolute.



Also foreshadowing three important figures who work for her.
Posted By: ArmouredHedgehog Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 04/08/21 01:44 PM
The three representativs match with the three gods forming the absolute. While it seems quite clear by now that Bhaal, Bane and Myrkul are the Absolute there are some major questions remaining:
How do the Illithids fit into their plan. How do they form the telepathic unity known as the absolute. Are the three going to fuse into one new god. What does the githyanki artefact have to do with it.
HarbsNarbs did a summary video for the aforementioned thesis on youtube.
Posted By: Abits Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 04/08/21 01:50 PM
Since patch 5, everyone seems very intent on pointing out the absolute is a she. Neither Bhaal, Bane, or Myrkul are female... the only one of them that can possibly be a She as far as I know is Bhaal
Posted By: spacehamster95 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 04/08/21 11:40 PM
The Absolute is mentioned both as male and female. I think it manifests itself as it chooses, to better manipulate the given figure (whether they answer better to a male or female authority figure). I agree with Harbs Narbs analyses that the Absolute is the Dead Three teaming up with a group of illithid. In the current timeline, the Dead Three are not full fledged deities so it makes sense for them to want to consolidate power.
Posted By: Abits Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 05/08/21 02:23 PM
Originally Posted by spacehamster95
The Absolute is mentioned both as male and female. I think it manifests itself as it chooses, to better manipulate the given figure (whether they answer better to a male or female authority figure). I agree with Harbs Narbs analyses that the Absolute is the Dead Three teaming up with a group of illithid. In the current timeline, the Dead Three are not full fledged deities so it makes sense for them to want to consolidate power.
That's just not true, and I thought it was but I think patch 5 removed all ambiguity in regards to the absolute's gender.
Some minor spoilers:
If you talk about the absolute to the goblin prisoner you have the option to call the absolute he, and the goblin will correct you
Posted By: spacehamster95 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 05/08/21 02:37 PM
Again, that's her faulty knowledge. She believes it to be female because that's how she was taught. The acolytes near the Owlbear cave still call the Absolute him if I recall correctly.
Posted By: ash elemental Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 05/08/21 03:02 PM
Originally Posted by spacehamster95
Again, that's her faulty knowledge. She believes it to be female because that's how she was taught. The acolytes near the Owlbear cave still call the Absolute him if I recall correctly.
The acolyte girl says that the true souls will be ruling in her name. I don't recall any npcs calling the absolute a him. The only different answer was from the dead mindflayer (perfect unity or sth like that).
Posted By: spacehamster95 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 05/08/21 03:27 PM
I might be wrong, but I think the dying acolyte, the dwarf evokes the Absolute as a Him, but I am now not sure. Maybe, I am stuck in Patch 4 mentally. Still, I don't think the pronoun is important in this case. Faerun gods are usually willing to do drag to increase their power or gain new followers.
Posted By: Priest Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 05/08/21 03:51 PM
spacehamster95 is correct. The Absolute is referred to as both male and female, as we already covered in this thread.

Originally Posted by Priest
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Who specifically refers to the Absolute as "he"?

Multiple goblins, particularly after a successful raid on the grove. Talk to those in your camp during the celebrations. Here are some examples I picked up:

"You hear the Absolute's voice, don't you? I will soon - I can already feel Him coming closer!"

"Our gift to the Absolute. May the whole world see His strength!"

"Let the Absolute hear your prayers. Let the blood of His enemies flow over you!"

There are other examples, even in descriptions of items, instead of said by characters.
For example, hover over the "Absolute Protection" ability of the Absolute's Warboard. It says:

"The Absolute shields his faithful. Invoke His name to increase your Armour Class by 2."
Posted By: Priest Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 05/08/21 03:54 PM
Someone could verify if this changed in patch 5 manually if they complete "Raid the Grove" and talk to the goblins at the end at the camp. Unfortunately, "Raid the Grove" was bugged for me this time around.

I'd be interested to know if it has changed!
Posted By: ash elemental Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 05/08/21 05:03 PM
Originally Posted by Priest
For example, hover over the "Absolute Protection" ability of the Absolute's Warboard. It says:

"The Absolute shields his faithful. Invoke His name to increase your Armour Class by 2."
It says "The Absolute shields Her faithful. Invoke Her name", just checked.
Posted By: Priest Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 05/08/21 09:28 PM
Originally Posted by ash elemental
Originally Posted by Priest
For example, hover over the "Absolute Protection" ability of the Absolute's Warboard. It says:

"The Absolute shields his faithful. Invoke His name to increase your Armour Class by 2."
It says "The Absolute shields Her faithful. Invoke Her name", just checked.

Ah, so it has changed, thank you for checking. Can you check the goblins at camp after the evil path?
Posted By: Priest Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/08/21 12:56 AM
Just did another playthrough, Patch 5. Many still refer to the Absolute as male.
Here are a few examples:

https://imgur.com/a/vhsLEsr
Posted By: Black_Elk Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/08/21 01:27 AM
Is it changing based on the character creation prompts? That could account for the variation, if its pegged to the custom PC or who they dream of etc.

absolute (adj.)
late 14c., "unrestricted, free from limitation; complete, perfect, free from imperfection;" also "not relative to something else" (mid-15c.), from Latin absolutus, past participle of absolvere "to set free, acquit; complete, bring to an end; make separate," from ab "off, away from" (see ab-) + solvere "to loosen, untie, release, detach," from PIE *se-lu-, from reflexive pronoun *s(w)e- (see idiom) + root *leu- "to loosen, divide, cut apart."
Posted By: lilaque Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/08/21 02:46 AM
Haven't read the entire thread, so sorry if someone already mentioned this. Has it been considered that the Absolute is the narrator? Or the layered voices that say 'Who are you?' and 'Who do you dream of at night?' during character creation. The narrator is clearly a woman, so obviously could fit the role of Absolute as the Absolute is described as a woman by her followers, but if we're considering the idea that the Absolute could have multiple identities, or is a God with the ability to shape themselves how they like, the other disembodied voice we hear during CC that seems to have masculine and feminine voices layered over each other could very well be the Absolute too.
Posted By: GM4Him Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/08/21 03:15 AM
My favorite theory so far is Gorion's Ward, which is why we don't REALLY know the gender. The tadpole takes the form of male or female depending on your choice. Gorion's Ward was also yur choice. Has Gorion's Ward decided to become a god in the end after all? Is he/she tired of things as they have been?

Or maybe its Amelyssan back from the dead. If entire pantheons have been wiped out and some gods brought back during the Second Sundering, could she have returned? What about Bodhi and Irenicus. 😱 Or Sarevok!
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/08/21 09:03 AM
Originally Posted by lilaque
Haven't read the entire thread, so sorry if someone already mentioned this. Has it been considered that the Absolute is the narrator? Or the layered voices that say 'Who are you?' and 'Who do you dream of at night?' during character creation. The narrator is clearly a woman, so obviously could fit the role of Absolute as the Absolute is described as a woman by her followers, but if we're considering the idea that the Absolute could have multiple identities, or is a God with the ability to shape themselves how they like, the other disembodied voice we hear during CC that seems to have masculine and feminine voices layered over each other could very well be the Absolute too.
Now, when you mention it ...
First time we meet our dreamcrush ... i think we have option to say "i have heared your voice aboard the ship" ... but i dont recall hearing any other voice than this you mention ... wich is kinda odd especialy since we chose its woice in creation, and that one who is talking to us certainly dont sounds "human" at all. laugh
Posted By: ash elemental Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/08/21 09:24 AM
Originally Posted by Priest
Just did another playthrough, Patch 5. Many still refer to the Absolute as male.
Here are a few examples:

https://imgur.com/a/vhsLEsr
They might yet get changed later, considering that requires new voiced lines, while changing item descriptions is easier. Otherwise I'm not sure why Larian would bother to rewrite item descriptions.

Anyways, now I suspect the main plot is connected to hells, souls and the resurrection business, and the mind flayers are just being used as tools. Apart from the books in the chapel , in the fake doctor's basement there is a "nobleman's portrait" lying on the floor, which depicts Mizora (funny enough if you pick it up, in the inventory it will show a nobleman laugh ). And that wizard was doing experiments on raising dead.

There is also a letter in the harpy nest written by a warlock who, from the description, sounds like he was working for Raphael. There is a crashed boat next to the nest, so perhaps they were lured by the harpies and crashed. What is interesting is the old journal lying next to the letter, though it could be simply an easter egg. Or the warlock was carrying that journal.
Posted By: Priest Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/08/21 04:32 PM
Originally Posted by ash elemental
Originally Posted by Priest
Just did another playthrough, Patch 5. Many still refer to the Absolute as male.
Here are a few examples:

https://imgur.com/a/vhsLEsr
They might yet get changed later, considering that requires new voiced lines, while changing item descriptions is easier. Otherwise I'm not sure why Larian would bother to rewrite item descriptions.

Anyways, now I suspect the main plot is connected to hells, souls and the resurrection business, and the mind flayers are just being used as tools. Apart from the books in the chapel , in the fake doctor's basement there is a "nobleman's portrait" lying on the floor, which depicts Mizora (funny enough if you pick it up, in the inventory it will show a nobleman laugh ). And that wizard was doing experiments on raising dead.

There is also a letter in the harpy nest written by a warlock who, from the description, sounds like he was working for Raphael. There is a crashed boat next to the nest, so perhaps they were lured by the harpies and crashed. What is interesting is the old journal lying next to the letter, though it could be simply an easter egg. Or the warlock was carrying that journal.

Yeh, I completely agree that these voicelines might get changed later. However, it is very concerning, if true, that Larian can't get the identity of the Absolute, a main antagonist, correct.

At the moment, it is worth considering the current information, that the Absolute is referred to as male and female in addition to the fact that one line was changed from "His" to "Her". I guess this is just a "watch this space" scenario for now.
Posted By: KillerRabbit Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/08/21 05:02 PM
Well now that's pretty clear that the absolute is the dead three and one of the three chosen is a woman with pale skin and pale eyes perhaps that Myrkul's chosen and Myrkul is now appearing as a woman?
Posted By: Priest Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 06/08/21 05:21 PM
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Well now that's pretty clear that the absolute is the dead three and one of the three chosen is a woman with pale skin and pale eyes perhaps that Myrkul's chosen and Myrkul is now appearing as a woman?

Yeh, that is a pretty popular theory: that each one of the Absolute's Chosen represents one of the Dead Three. It might just be a representative of them, rather than actually them. It would be odd for one to appear as an elf, and another as a woman, so I'm learning towards the former.
Posted By: Abits Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 08/08/21 11:23 AM
Please delete
Posted By: timebean Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 08/08/21 12:59 PM
Originally Posted by Neuleser
The new Patch 5 content features what appears to be the first encounter with the Absolute.



Also foreshadowing three important figures who work for her.


Is it just me, or does the outline of the “younger man with a quick easy smile” look an awful lot like Aradin?
Posted By: spacehamster95 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 08/08/21 01:34 PM
Originally Posted by Abits
Please delete

What you mean?
Posted By: Zellin Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 08/08/21 01:45 PM
Is it just me, or does the outline of the “younger man with a quick easy smile” look an awful lot like Aradin?[/quote]
Those 3 more likely have a placeholder appearance at the moment. Aradin uses a hairstyle available for PC, none of important boss-like NPCs use such hairstyles.
Posted By: Gourls Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 22/09/21 04:11 PM
Originally Posted by Dexai
There is only one thing Absolute in the world, and that is Death; And Death -- is Bhaal.

Point of order here, Bhaal is actually the god of murder. The god of death in the Forgotten Realms is Myrkul.

And then the god of the dead is Kelemvor.
Posted By: Faustus Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 29/09/21 07:32 PM
The Absolute could be a collective consciousness of all things or an entity without shape or form, the name itself doesn't sound too singular.
Posted By: Umbra Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 29/09/21 08:51 PM
I'm going toplace a bet on Vlaakith being the Absolute.

We know she's plotting to ascend to godhood from lichdom, she's been putting her needs ahead of the Gith purpose for centuries already, this could be her endgame.

The artifact could be her phylactory or something of that sort. Semi-sentient and containing much of her pre-lich personality and ambition - lead the Githyanki to victory over the mind-flayers. It is opposing Vlaakith, and doesn't want to fall into her hands via the Gith who have been sent out hunting the "weapon", or the cultists.

Vlaakith has fought Illithids for a long time and probably understands them very well. Discovering and manipulating an Illithid plot to her benefit instead of destroying it would be risky, but if the reward is tricking her ancient enemies into helping her ascend, it would be tempting.

Remember when Lazy talks about the K'lirr library? Vlaakith is smart and extremly well informed about every race religion and organisation, powerful in her own self and with forces to command and with a racial portfolio there for the taking, she's halfway there already.
Posted By: Black_Elk Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 30/09/21 11:20 AM
Originally Posted by Umbra
I'm going toplace a bet on Vlaakith being the Absolute.

We know she's plotting to ascend to godhood from lichdom, she's been putting her needs ahead of the Gith purpose for centuries already, this could be her endgame.

The artifact could be her phylactory or something of that sort. Semi-sentient and containing much of her pre-lich personality and ambition - lead the Githyanki to victory over the mind-flayers. It is opposing Vlaakith, and doesn't want to fall into her hands via the Gith who have been sent out hunting the "weapon", or the cultists.

Vlaakith has fought Illithids for a long time and probably understands them very well. Discovering and manipulating an Illithid plot to her benefit instead of destroying it would be risky, but if the reward is tricking her ancient enemies into helping her ascend, it would be tempting.

Remember when Lazy talks about the K'lirr library? Vlaakith is smart and extremly well informed about every race religion and organisation, powerful in her own self and with forces to command and with a racial portfolio there for the taking, she's halfway there already.

If I had more confidence in the writing and the set up, then the Absolute could just be
Time.

That's what I thought they were going to do with it on my first run. Like that they were going to make the Baldur's Gate version of Dark with a traveler theme, since it was just gaining popularity when this one came out. Or Time but with a "memory-travel" or "dream-travel" riff on the more standard time-travel motif, like where we never actually left the tank. It would have explained many things about the gameworld, including why the gameworld feels like Time is notably absent, or perhaps how this game connects with the originals etc. I mean BG1 actually opened with that Nietzsche quotation from "Beyond Good and Evil: Prelude to a Philosophy of the Future" way back in 1998, so it's not like it couldn't work there with some provenance. Maybe explains how we get Minsc back or whatever. But now I don't want them to go that route, because I don't really trust Larian to do it justice. I'm not sure they are sophisticated enough in the writing to pull it off, while still keeping the tight lid on. I think it's something they could have done, but not when the game is releasing in an EA like this with everyone watching over their shoulders, and where a plot reveal of that sort early on would probably ruin it. For a concept like that to work, the game really needs to present as more cohesive from the getgo, since the concept tends to fall apart on close scrutiny and pacing is key. They have enough in the set up for it to carry though, or at least I thought it did, and that would have provided some meta interest for a gameworld that already routinely includes Planar Travel. Probably the only thing left untapped from a narrative standpoint that hasn't already been done to death in D&D campaigns. You know, trying to build the idea of 'replay' right into it at the foundation hehe. But again, I think they'd be hard put to do it up proper now, without it feeling overly gimmicky. I think it would be derided as too derivative or out genre at this point, to do a Matrix version of Faerun, but it would have been cool a year ago lol.
Posted By: Firesong Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 30/09/21 11:23 AM
How about Shadowheart?

She is absolutely good looking, which may be a hint, haha.
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 30/09/21 04:20 PM
She is? O_o
Didnt notice so far ...
Posted By: Faustus Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 08/10/21 08:47 PM
The goblin priestess refers to the Absolute as "she"

"Whatever the Absolute tells me to. Don't worry-She loves you. I can tell."
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 08/10/21 08:54 PM
Originally Posted by Faustus
The goblin priestess refers to the Absolute as "she"

"Whatever the Absolute tells me to. Don't worry-She loves you. I can tell."
Does she even when you made your dream person a male?
Since as far as i know, few people mentioned it changed its pronoun.
Posted By: Faustus Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 08/10/21 09:05 PM
Are you implying the Absolute is the dream manifestation itself? I don't know about the male part, just something I've picked up on..
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 08/10/21 09:24 PM
Not me specificly, but its one of common theories. smile
Posted By: ALexws Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 13/10/21 06:24 PM
I kinda figure out who's the one of the Absolute chosen.
"Ketheric Throm, the Absolute Chosen"
around 39:25[video:youtube]
[/video]
it's a perfect fit for the description for one of the chosen
an armoured male elf, exuding power and command
and I might also dig out how things happened from the past to the present.
A bunch of people (include Halsin) tried to defeat Katheirc Thorm at the moonrise tower. Yet he managed to release the curse before being pushed out of the cliff and died(for which Halsin was likely responsible for that). Then the Absolute found his dead body, resurrected him and made him a Chosen. It kinda also explains why the cult of Absolute can survive in that area.
Posted By: OneManArmy Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 16/10/21 12:58 PM
What do you think of the new cinematic scene at the entrance to the goblin camp? Who are these three chosen ones?
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 16/10/21 01:15 PM
When you say "new" ... you mean patch 5 new, or patch 6 new? laugh
Posted By: OneManArmy Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 17/10/21 07:09 PM
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
When you say "new" ... you mean patch 5 new, or patch 6 new? laugh
I played baldurs gate last December last time

Attempts to hear the full dialogue of the Absolute in the cast scene were unsuccessful:
- I did not take Shadow Heart to the party - she caught up with me on the cast scene
- I threw it off Natuloid, the artifact dropped
- I killed her near the chapel, the artifact also dropped
I should try to ignore SH completely. A strange woman with her artifact, I want to know what the Absolute wanted. Apparently the opportunity to give the artifact to the Absolute will be in the Moon Towers
Posted By: ALexws Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 17/10/21 07:51 PM
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
When you say "new" ... you mean patch 5 new, or patch 6 new? laugh
I played baldurs gate last December last time

Attempts to hear the full dialogue of the Absolute in the cast scene were unsuccessful:
- I did not take Shadow Heart to the party - she caught up with me on the cast scene
- I threw it off Natuloid, the artifact dropped
- I killed her near the chapel, the artifact also dropped
I should try to ignore SH completely. A strange woman with her artifact, I want to know what the Absolute wanted. Apparently the opportunity to give the artifact to the Absolute will be in the Moon Towers
well, I kinda answer your question partially. And I don't think you can't really give the artifact to the Absolute this early.
the artifact clearly has a significant role in the whole game. And it has its own consciousness. It shows you its anxiety when you are close to people who want to take it. Also, the artifact will bounce back and shock you if you drop it on the ground(you need to observe it from your menu)
Posted By: cool-dude01 Re: What is the Absolute SPOILERS - 23/10/21 03:23 PM
I think the Absolute and their followers represent Christianity, or atleast take heavy inspiration from Christianity. If you notice, the symbol of the absolute is a combition of symbols, each one belonging to one of the dead three. i think the Absolute's symbol represents a holy trinity, and the Absolute is Jesus, in the sense that the Absolute is essentially the incarnation of the dead three, in the same way jesus was in the Christian holy trinity.

I think the Absolute is a brand new character, who is the dead three, but at the same time isn't. They are a "what if the dead three had a baby"
© Larian Studios forums