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Posted By: Hoarfrost Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 18/10/20 05:41 PM
He just seems to be an arrogant blowhard; the other characters are at least interesting but all this guy is a fake a hero; is there anything redeemable about him?
Posted By: Blade238 Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 18/10/20 06:16 PM
Oh most definitely. I was going to force myself to take him along this playthrough just to see if he develops beyond the annoyance he is at first greeting, but he randomly aggroed on first meeting and I killed him. This playthrough won't be graced by the "Blade of the Frontiers" thank god.
Posted By: Hachina Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 18/10/20 06:30 PM
Originally Posted by Hoarfrost
He just seems to be an arrogant blowhard; the other characters are at least interesting but all this guy is a fake a hero; is there anything redeemable about him?


Anomen was like that too, at first.
Posted By: KillerRabbit Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 18/10/20 06:36 PM
Wyll's great -- very interesting portrait of someone whose lust for revenge and vanity is taking him down a dark path. I'm hoping he has a critical moment where he will either fall into evil or redeem himself. And, of course, that decision will really be up to the MC and the advice they give.



Gale is my Anomen. Well written but so annoying.
Posted By: Argonaut Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 18/10/20 06:48 PM
Originally Posted by Hachina
Originally Posted by Hoarfrost
He just seems to be an arrogant blowhard; the other characters are at least interesting but all this guy is a fake a hero; is there anything redeemable about him?


Anomen was like that too, at first.

While I don't find Wyll to be bad with what we have available in the game, I wouldn't consider him similar to Anomen. Anomen is arrogant and condescending yes but he is still trying to understand the people around him and do good in the world. Wyll is going down a much more questionable path and has much more questionable motivations. It's unfair to boil either of them down to "they are irritating because they are prideful".

Posted By: IdPreferNotTo Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 18/10/20 07:11 PM
Not me. I played near the end of chapter 1 as a warlock. Wyll didn't make it into the group because I didn't see how 2 mage build would work for a party of 4. I Would have possibly picked him into the party over Astarion, if he were rogue, since the latter just doesn't come off as very dependable sort and I prefer the company of seasoned perverts you don't have to introduce novel good concepts like polite introductions or consent to. I don't find Astarion intolerable either, though. I only had a few camp interactions with Wyll after he joined up and he didn't strike to me as particularly "fake". People seem to complain he's juvenile and thinks too highly of himself, but he didn't seem any more deluded or otherwise annoying than the rest of the party members.

If he's very similar to Anomen though, I'm possibly going to keep restricting him to campsite heroics and pick Gale over him to fill the mage role.
Posted By: DumbleDorf Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 18/10/20 07:13 PM
Well I never picked Anomen again after using him for the first time because he was the single most annoying NPC in BG2.

How sorry I felt for anyone playing a female character that he was their romanceable option lol.
Posted By: vel Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 18/10/20 08:43 PM
Wyll's story gets more interesting. He's not as one dimensional as you're claiming.
Posted By: Sharet Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 18/10/20 08:57 PM
I like him. I mean, he is full of himself but he is the first to think he is actually nothing special, even if he tries to mask it under the bravado. I think he suffers from the impostor syndrome quite a lot.
Beside this, at least he is one of the few people treating you like a decent person. It's not level, just a dumbass I suspect will develop quite nicely during the course of the game.
Posted By: Hachina Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 18/10/20 09:18 PM
Originally Posted by Argonaut
Originally Posted by Hachina
Originally Posted by Hoarfrost
He just seems to be an arrogant blowhard; the other characters are at least interesting but all this guy is a fake a hero; is there anything redeemable about him?


Anomen was like that too, at first.

While I don't find Wyll to be bad with what we have available in the game, I wouldn't consider him similar to Anomen. Anomen is arrogant and condescending yes but he is still trying to understand the people around him and do good in the world. Wyll is going down a much more questionable path and has much more questionable motivations. It's unfair to boil either of them down to "they are irritating because they are prideful".



And they're both lying in a way. Both play the hero , even though Anomen never was one, and Will has much darker secret. But yeah, they are different characters, with different motivations of course. I didn't mean to say they were the same.
Posted By: Divine Star Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 18/10/20 09:53 PM
I tried to play his story but honestly I don't pick him much simply because I always play a warlock.
Posted By: Argonaut Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 18/10/20 10:32 PM
Originally Posted by Hachina
Originally Posted by Argonaut
Originally Posted by Hachina
Originally Posted by Hoarfrost
He just seems to be an arrogant blowhard; the other characters are at least interesting but all this guy is a fake a hero; is there anything redeemable about him?


Anomen was like that too, at first.

While I don't find Wyll to be bad with what we have available in the game, I wouldn't consider him similar to Anomen. Anomen is arrogant and condescending yes but he is still trying to understand the people around him and do good in the world. Wyll is going down a much more questionable path and has much more questionable motivations. It's unfair to boil either of them down to "they are irritating because they are prideful".



And they're both lying in a way. Both play the hero , even though Anomen never was one, and Will has much darker secret. But yeah, they are different characters, with different motivations of course. I didn't mean to say they were the same.

Anomen? Playing the hero? When you encounter Anomen for the first time he is in a den of scum and villainy and actively trying to aid the situation while recognizing that he cannot do so on his own. He is not taking advantage of his status as a noble or his family name, wealth and influence but standing present, boots to the floor at ground zero. Anomen is trying to be a hero in a very real and literal sense and working past his flaws. I understand your point but these characters are just not similar past "arrogant and condescending".
Posted By: Arideya Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 18/10/20 11:05 PM
While Anomen was never my favorite romance and I tended to just use mods, I did like his character arc and how he was written. He went from a douchebag to a fairly decent human being (albeit still realtively prideful), and he IS a very good cleric, especially if you sort out his quest in a good way. For my canon ToB parties I swapped him and Viconia and they both kicked ass.

I haven't gotten far with Wyll, but it would be interesting to see where he goes. He did strike me as a more of a "fake" hero type, but lets see. I never hate on party members from the start, just tend to try and figure out where they are coming from, whats their secret, and which path are they going.
Posted By: Hachina Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 18/10/20 11:08 PM
@Argonaut

When you start with Anomen, he constantly boast about his past deeds and how he did insane stuff killing giant and whats not. Then he later reveals that this was all lies. If this is not playing the hero, what is?
And I urge you to read the thread again. The OP was complaining about Will being arrogant, and I said ''Anomen'' was the same, implying he was arrogant as well. You agreed on that matter with me.
Posted By: Argonaut Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 18/10/20 11:11 PM
@Hachina
It would be playing the hero if he wasn't actively being heroic and doing heroic things. He even explains why he lies and it's not just because of braggadocio.
Posted By: Stray952 Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 18/10/20 11:18 PM
Originally Posted by Hoarfrost
He just seems to be an arrogant blowhard; the other characters are at least interesting but all this guy is a fake a hero; is there anything redeemable about him?


Eh, I think it depends on where you are at in life. I like that he’s a fake hero, he’s playing the shtick. It implies a little depth of character. I haven’t seen that from any of the other characters.

But to each their own. No reason you have to take him. I don’t take a few characters with me.
Posted By: vometia Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 18/10/20 11:46 PM
He reminds me of Liam from Andromeda, probably due to the VA (I think it's the same guy, anyway). I kinda liked Liam but I'm finding it harder to warm to Wyll; perhaps that's more due to him being a bit useless, though.
Posted By: Stray952 Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 18/10/20 11:50 PM
Originally Posted by vometia
He reminds me of Liam from Andromeda, probably due to the VA (I think it's the same guy, anyway). I kinda liked Liam but I'm finding it harder to warm to Wyll; perhaps that's more due to him being a bit useless, though.

lol yeah it was a hard shift to see him go from seeming to wreck goblins in his introduction to having him in my party and having to be carried a little.
Posted By: FatePeddler Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 18/10/20 11:52 PM
I don't think Wyll is that bad, but I dislike Shadowheart most.

I don't know how to complete his story in chapter 1 properly yet, the burning town is pretty buggy with saving people. I was fine with Wyll's joining quest, because it lines up with saving Halsin smile.

I like him better than Shadowheart though.
Posted By: Nezix Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 19/10/20 12:01 AM
It's interesting how different perspectives can be. His boasting didn't bother me at all, when I met him he was trying to help the kids defend themselves and boost their morale. Clearly a solid good guy, which after Lae, Shadowheart and Asterian was refreshing. And yeah, a lot more of his story has been revealed.
Posted By: blazerules Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 19/10/20 12:20 AM
Nah I don't find Wyll intolerable. But there are 2 very good reasons as to why I personally do not find him to be so:
A) He dies in the first battle you see him in because he is so useless.
B) If he survives I don't take him along because he is so useless.

I don't particularly like any of the characters in BG3 so far but that's just up to personal preference. They either come off as a bit too whiny, bit too arrogant or way too edgy (I swear I can imagine Shadowheart crossing her arms, pouting and going "UGH FINE I guess we'll go do the stupid thing!" like some angsty teen.) even after getting to know them best you can in the early access I'd say... yeah Shadowheart is the worst by far. Probably intentional though.
Posted By: Figulus Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 19/10/20 01:15 AM
What? Wyll the misser?...nah Love 'im!
Posted By: pwykersotz Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 19/10/20 03:06 AM
Wyll is arrogant? Compared to everyone else?

Gale condescends to you massively, especially on first meeting.
Shadowheart knows what's best with absolute certainty in terms of Gith and (not) helping others.
Lae'zel demands you follow her every order and dresses you down if you don't.
Astarion constantly talks about how easy it would be to kill you.

Wyll is no more or less arrogant overall than any of the others. He just has a particular type of hyperbole he employs to jazz up his adventures. He's kind of bard-like in that respect. But he's smart, kind, and recognizes his own flaws. He's a good guy and a good character in my opinion.
Posted By: BrianDavion Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 19/10/20 03:30 AM
I didn'tr see Gale as condescending, I saw Gale as launching into something that included a ton of technical language only to realize "........ you don't really understand a word of what I'm saying right sorry" it's something ANYONE in a technical profession has experianced. hell It's something I've experianced with my family if hobby stuff comes up.
Posted By: Lady Avyna Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 19/10/20 03:41 AM
Originally Posted by Hoarfrost
He just seems to be an arrogant blowhard; the other characters are at least interesting but all this guy is a fake a hero; is there anything redeemable about him?


I agree that he seems arrogant. I also can't seem to quite figure him out but I definitely feel like he has a few skeletons in his closet and he's not being completely honest.
Posted By: J-Hart Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 19/10/20 05:16 AM
Well I guess we'll all feel differently about the companions, but singling out Wyll specifically as having intolerable arrogance in a cast that includes Lae'zel, Shadowheart and Astarion is wild to me. And that's before you learn more about Wyll and see that his bravado is not all that it seems.

Shadowheart gives you crap for just opening a door after hearing noises from the inside, because wHaT iF tHeRe'S dAnGeR like I didn't just demolish a whole goblin camp. Like girl shutup.

Meanwhile even if you don't take Wyll...
to the goblin camp when it's his plan and defeating the leaders is his goal, he lets you know that he's disappointed but glad you still got the job done. Even congratulates you on your efforts at the party.


So all in all, Wyll is an actual bro and I really look forward to seeing where his personal story leads.
Posted By: Warlocke Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 19/10/20 05:45 AM
I love Wyll. He is the first chaotic neutral character I have seen done with nuance.

And if you think Wyll isn’t chaotic neutral:

when given the chance he tortures an innocent man for information on where to find his patron. This is chaotic neutral. It’s not just an alignment for lunatics, but also somebody’s whose sense of morality is entirely contingent. Wyll will teach refugee children self defense one day (especially when he knows others are watching him do it) but kill a foe whom surrenders or torture an innocent man the next.


This is why Wyll is my favorite companion so far.
Posted By: Hoarfrost Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 19/10/20 08:36 AM
Originally Posted by Warlocke
I love Wyll. He is the first chaotic neutral character I have seen done with nuance.

And if you think Wyll isn’t chaotic neutral:

when given the chance he tortures an innocent man for information on where to find his patron. This is chaotic neutral. It’s not just an alignment for lunatics, but also somebody’s whose sense of morality is entirely contingent. Wyll will teach refugee children self defense one day (especially when he knows others are watching him do it) but kill a foe whom surrenders or torture an innocent man the next.


This is why Wyll is my favorite companion so far.


Wait, where did he torture someone? It does not make sense for him to be CN when his patron is clearly LE. That is almost oppositional in terms of alignment. I am not sure what about any of that is CN; it definitely is not good but it could just as well be N(E) or even LE in some context
Posted By: Zress Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 19/10/20 08:46 AM
He is the companion I like the most. Warlocks, unlike clerics, do not need to see eye to eye with their patron. This is the whole idea of the class. A person that made a deal to gain power knowing full well (most of the time) where the power is coming from.
Posted By: azarhal Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 19/10/20 01:06 PM
Originally Posted by Hoarfrost
Originally Posted by Warlocke
I love Wyll. He is the first chaotic neutral character I have seen done with nuance.

And if you think Wyll isn’t chaotic neutral:

when given the chance he tortures an innocent man for information on where to find his patron. This is chaotic neutral. It’s not just an alignment for lunatics, but also somebody’s whose sense of morality is entirely contingent. Wyll will teach refugee children self defense one day (especially when he knows others are watching him do it) but kill a foe whom surrenders or torture an innocent man the next.


This is why Wyll is my favorite companion so far.


Wait, where did he torture someone? It does not make sense for him to be CN when his patron is clearly LE. That is almost oppositional in terms of alignment. I am not sure what about any of that is CN; it definitely is not good but it could just as well be N(E) or even LE in some context


If you let him, Wyll will do what Spike ask of him to get information...and that is torturing a man.

He has no ethic and will always take the shortest path to his goal. I put him into NE personally.
Posted By: DonutRemover Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 19/10/20 01:25 PM
I like Wyll and Laezel for their personalities. Laezel is a joy to be around because she's always angry for no reason. Kind of like your personal George Costanza. And her reactions to being told to shut up and get back in line are great. I also like how Astarion is the embodiment of everything that is wrong in the world. His dialogue, voice acting, hair, face, and clothing makes me wish for an option to come up to him and punch him in the face just for existing. Same with Shadowheart who looks like an escaped circus clown. The wizard companion seems pretty typical, though. In fact, he is so bland that I can't even think of his name haha. To be fair, I only played for a little bit and these are just my initial impressions.
Posted By: Nezix Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 19/10/20 03:10 PM
Originally Posted by Warlocke
I love Wyll. He is the first chaotic neutral character I have seen done with nuance.

And if you think Wyll isn’t chaotic neutral:

when given the chance he tortures an innocent man for information on where to find his patron. This is chaotic neutral. It’s not just an alignment for lunatics, but also somebody’s whose sense of morality is entirely contingent. Wyll will teach refugee children self defense one day (especially when he knows others are watching him do it) but kill a foe whom surrenders or torture an innocent man the next.


This is why Wyll is my favorite companion so far.


Ehh... iirc, his first response of the "offer" to torture is like "No way!". There is a following option where you can push him to do it. Seems like at that point and given his first response the onus lies more on you. Given what I have seen with his approval of dialog choices regarding helping people and being nice, I would put him solidly in chaotic good.
Posted By: Warlocke Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 19/10/20 03:26 PM
Originally Posted by Nezix
Originally Posted by Warlocke
I love Wyll. He is the first chaotic neutral character I have seen done with nuance.

And if you think Wyll isn’t chaotic neutral:

when given the chance he tortures an innocent man for information on where to find his patron. This is chaotic neutral. It’s not just an alignment for lunatics, but also somebody’s whose sense of morality is entirely contingent. Wyll will teach refugee children self defense one day (especially when he knows others are watching him do it) but kill a foe whom surrenders or torture an innocent man the next.


This is why Wyll is my favorite companion so far.


Ehh... iirc, his first response of the "offer" to torture is like "No way!". There is a following option where you can push him to do it. Seems like at that point and given his first response the onus lies more on you. Given what I have seen with his approval of dialog choices regarding helping people and being nice, I would put him solidly in chaotic good.


A chaotic good character wouldn’t be persuaded into torturing an innocent person. Wyll has a sense of morality, but he is driven by ego and is willing to set aside his morals in the right circumstances. He is morally inconsistent, and this is chaotic neutral.
Posted By: Nyanko Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 19/10/20 03:39 PM
Well, if you say a warlock is not very good, I don't know what is. From level 3, they are just completely OP. And besides, I find Wyll story the most appealing so far. Want to know who this Mizora is.

In my second playthrough, I have 2 warlocks in my party. I don't even bother going stealth against bosses lol.
Posted By: Vexor Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 19/10/20 06:40 PM
Originally Posted by Warlocke
I love Wyll. He is the first chaotic neutral character I have seen done with nuance.

And if you think Wyll isn’t chaotic neutral:


I believe the technical term is Chaotic Nuts and that is definitely his alignment despite his patron. When a given situation arises he's just as likely to do good or evil.
Posted By: Goldberry Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 19/10/20 07:29 PM
I have not given Wyll a chance, I'm playing a warlock so I see no point in having him in my party, and unfortunately, I get progressively less interested in characters that are not in my party.

That and fiendlock is the most uninteresting pact for my taste. That said, he seemed alright during his introduction and the few times I talked to him.
Posted By: Warlocke Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 19/10/20 07:56 PM
Originally Posted by Goldberry
I have not given Wyll a chance, I'm playing a warlock so I see no point in having him in my party, and unfortunately, I get progressively less interested in characters that are not in my party.

That and fiendlock is the most uninteresting pact for my taste. That said, he seemed alright during his introduction and the few times I talked to him.


I played Wyll with a custom warlock and had a blast. Specifically, an eldritch blast. Several, actually. All day every day. It was pretty fun being able to bounce opponents around with two warlocks.
Posted By: Goldberry Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 19/10/20 09:55 PM
Originally Posted by Warlocke
Originally Posted by Goldberry
I have not given Wyll a chance, I'm playing a warlock so I see no point in having him in my party, and unfortunately, I get progressively less interested in characters that are not in my party.

That and fiendlock is the most uninteresting pact for my taste. That said, he seemed alright during his introduction and the few times I talked to him.


I played Wyll with a custom warlock and had a blast. Specifically, an eldritch blast. Several, actually. All day every day. It was pretty fun being able to bounce opponents around with two warlocks.


Hahaha, that's... Kind of a good point, actually. I do have a lot of fun with pushing people off high grounds with Eldritch blast. Or against the wall. Or each other. When in doubt; Eldritch blast.
Posted By: Tuco Re: Anyone else find Wyll intolerable? - 19/10/20 10:23 PM
The most intolerable thing about Wyll is his build/stat distribution.
It's IMOEN.
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