Larian Studios
Posted By: OneManArmy Vegetarianism sustem in the game - 19/10/20 01:55 PM
Baldurs Gate has a Speak with Animals spell. If you use it, it becomes clear that animals have intelligence, they have their own opinions, feelings, dreams. This is already a double reason to fight against animal abuse.

Can we eat intelligent beings?
How then will our hero be different from the goblins who roast the dwarf at the stake?

The game has already implemented a vegetarianism system: in order to replenish health, the player has the freedom of choice: he can eat meat, or he can eat fruits and drink health potions. So everyone can answer this question on their own

But is it possible to do a quest to rescue the bulls from the tiefling camp in order for them to find freedom? And escape the terrible fate of being eaten.
I actually like that idea!
It's a bit Restaurant At The End Of The Universe: I'm thinking of the scene where Dentarthurdent was becoming decidedly queasy about the still living quality meat product that was trying to describe how tasty it was.
Hey, if the dwarf meat is already roasted, it would be a shame to waste it.

And this from a player of dwarfs. When entering the village and being ambushed by goblins, one of them comments that, "We should get a few cuts from you". I looked at the avatar and thought, "yeah, you're probably right".

Slightly more seriously, this raises that long-debated question over what constitutes cannibalism in a fantasy world where there are many intelligent species (okay they call them races, but that's semantics). The actual definition is that you eat a member of your own species, but in FRPGs things tend to get more blurred so that, for example, a dwarf eating a halfling is liable to be viewed as a 'cannibal'.

If the half-orc eats the half-elf, is that quarter-cannibalism?
Originally Posted by Sadurian
Hey, if the dwarf meat is already roasted, it would be a shame to waste it.

And this from a player of dwarfs. When entering the village and being ambushed by goblins, one of them comments that, "We should get a few cuts from you". I looked at the avatar and thought, "yeah, you're probably right".

Slightly more seriously, this raises that long-debated question over what constitutes cannibalism in a fantasy world where there are many intelligent species (okay they call them races, but that's semantics). The actual definition is that you eat a member of your own species, but in FRPGs things tend to get more blurred so that, for example, a dwarf eating a halfling is liable to be viewed as a 'cannibal'.

If the half-orc eats the half-elf, is that quarter-cannibalism?


What interesting questions the game poses for us! It is better if we answer them now, and help Larian do something about it, than after the release they will be covered by American critics
Pick you diet:
Vegan/vegetarian/traditional/cannibal
Even if I am a Human, and the goblins were eating human flesh, is that enough reason for me to want to wipe them all out? In fact I wouldn't care at all by my Chaotic Neutral nature so long as it isn't me being cooked and eaten. I would weigh up whether it is more beneficial to me to join the goblins or the druids regardless of good or evil.
It won't be the first time D&D has been attacked as containing Terrible Influences.
Originally Posted by Wormerine
Pick you diet:
Vegan/vegetarian/traditional/cannibal

Sentient plants could be vegan cannibals.
Originally Posted by Wormerine
Pick you diet:
Vegan/vegetarian/traditional/cannibal


This is what is wee need in 2021.
Vegan - Restores more health from apples and other fruits, but cannot eat other foods.
Vegetarian - can also eat milk.
Traditional is the way it is in the game now.
Canibal - can collect meat from humanoid corpses, but cannot heal with other food
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Baldurs Gate has a Speak with Animals spell. If you use it, it becomes clear that animals have intelligence, they have their own opinions, feelings, dreams. This is already a double reason to fight against animal abuse.

Can we eat intelligent beings?
How then will our hero be different from the goblins who roast the dwarf at the stake?

The game has already implemented a vegetarianism system: in order to replenish health, the player has the freedom of choice: he can eat meat, or he can eat fruits and drink health potions. So everyone can answer this question on their own

But is it possible to do a quest to rescue the bulls from the tiefling camp in order for them to find freedom? And escape the terrible fate of being eaten.

+1 more content and interesting avenues of thinking and roleplaying are always welcome.
I have a question for vegans:
Do you have any displeasure with eating meat in the game to replenish your health, preferring apples, rest and health potions? Or does it not matter to you if the meat is virtual?
By the by, there is also a speak with plants spell. If you are currently simulating a growing moral horror at the casual genocide inherent in the DnD universe, you are doing it right.
Originally Posted by OneManArmy

Vegan - Restores more health from apples and other fruits, but cannot eat other foods.
Vegetarian - can also eat milk.
Traditional is the way it is in the game now.
Canibal - can collect meat from humanoid corpses, but cannot heal with other food

I like this idea ... maybe there can be even way for some races to consume raw meat for smaller amount of HP, than when cooked.
I dont know DnD so good, but for Half Orc, for example, i would expect raw meat to be consumable, even if maybe not as enjoyable as cooked.
I would rather have the option to eat one cow at a time and replenish all of your health. Similar to the regen stations on the ship. Any farm animals you find in the world could act as 1 use max heals.
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Originally Posted by Wormerine
Pick you diet:
Vegan/vegetarian/traditional/cannibal


This is what is wee need in 2021.
Vegan - Restores more health from apples and other fruits, but cannot eat other foods.
Vegetarian - can also eat milk.
Traditional is the way it is in the game now.
Canibal - can collect meat from humanoid corpses, but cannot heal with other food


Unfortunately its not really realistic as some Vegan that tried to climb mount Everest to prove that vegans arent weak died from the attempt. It would be more correct to add malnourished debuffs to characters that don't eat a balanced diet.
Originally Posted by OneManArmy

But is it possible to do a quest to rescue the bulls from the tiefling camp in order for them to find freedom? And escape the terrible fate of being eaten.


They are oxen, not bulls... and their terrible fate is to pull a cart currently.
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
I have a question for vegans:
Do you have any displeasure with eating meat in the game to replenish your health, preferring apples, rest and health potions? Or does it not matter to you if the meat is virtual?


I don't know about most vegetarians/vegans, but I don't particularly care about eating meat in a game, especially because it seems like meat in this game heals for a lot more than fruits/vegetables. Honestly, a lot of what I do in the game is somewhat morally questionable in my opinion, so having my character eat some meat she found sitting in a barrel somewhere is just one more thing to add to the list. Weirdly though, killing the virtual animals does bother me, so I never attack non-hostile animals unless it's for a quest or something.
Originally Posted by tourmaline
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
I have a question for vegans:
Do you have any displeasure with eating meat in the game to replenish your health, preferring apples, rest and health potions? Or does it not matter to you if the meat is virtual?


I don't know about most vegetarians/vegans, but I don't particularly care about eating meat in a game, especially because it seems like meat in this game heals for a lot more than fruits/vegetables. Honestly, a lot of what I do in the game is somewhat morally questionable in my opinion, so having my character eat some meat she found sitting in a barrel somewhere is just one more thing to add to the list. Weirdly though, killing the virtual animals does bother me, so I never attack non-hostile animals unless it's for a quest or something.


I've been a vegan for...24 years now...and it's pretty much the same for me.

For some reason I can't make my character eat the cooked dwarf cuts though. I have Lae'zel eat them instead.
Been vegan for 5 years, due to health problems gone full vegetarian for about 7years (in total I haven't touched meat/fish for about 12 years now) and I really don't care about pixel food. All I care about is that it heals me in game and takes the damned weight off my chars bags, what was it, pork head or chops weight 20kg? Are you kidding me??

So while your idea might be nice, honestly, I would entirely remove food healing us from the game. Sure, for RP reasons or some hardcore realistic mode (I believe POE1 or 2 had modes where you had to eat food or you'd die), food can stay but it shouldn't heal us. Makes clerics pretty much redundant... like hp potions still have some use.
Originally Posted by Nicottia
Been vegan for 5 years, due to health problems gone full vegetarian for about 7years (in total I haven't touched meat/fish for about 12 years now) and I really don't care about pixel food. All I care about is that it heals me in game and takes the damned weight off my chars bags, what was it, pork head or chops weight 20kg? Are you kidding me??

So while your idea might be nice, honestly, I would entirely remove food healing us from the game. Sure, for RP reasons or some hardcore realistic mode (I believe POE1 or 2 had modes where you had to eat food or you'd die), food can stay but it shouldn't heal us. Makes clerics pretty much redundant... like hp potions still have some use.


just wanted to make sure the game doesn't offend vegans' feelings when they are forced to eat virtual meat to replenish their health.
Food is needed, health potions need to be saved, rest is not often, cleric's mana is not infinite


A possible solution for vegetarians who are offended by this opportunity is to give meat to other companions, and the main character only has vegetarian food
I do for my characters what is fitting for them.

I really want to play my Wood Elf as an Elder Scrolls Wood Elf though... eating only meat because they revere all plants.
But my fellow adventurers are health potions certified vegan?
Posted By: Sadurian Re: Vegetarianism sustem in the game - 21/10/20 08:53 PM
Given that we all know that magic potions require eye of newt and toe of frog, a vegan adventurer is going to struggle with potions.



Yes, I know that the latest theory is that the witches' ingredients are simply contemporary folk names for herbs and plants. That's not as funny, though.
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
just wanted to make sure the game doesn't offend vegans' feelings when they are forced to eat virtual meat to replenish their health.
Food is needed, health potions need to be saved, rest is not often, cleric's mana is not infinite


A possible solution for vegetarians who are offended by this opportunity is to give meat to other companions, and the main character only has vegetarian food


Ehhhhhhhhhh, in this day and age anyone can be offended by anything. But I don't think hardcore and casual RPG players care much really. Also, mana? laugh There is no mana in D&D bro, you learn and prepare spells, also, technically speaking, you can rest infinitely in BG3 with no consequences. I think you play too many other RPGs/MMOs. wink
Posted By: OneManArmy Re: Vegetarianism sustem in the game - 21/10/20 08:57 PM
Originally Posted by Sadurian
Given that we all know that magic potions require eye of newt and toe of frog, a vegan adventurer is going to struggle with potions.



Yes, I know that the latest theory is that the witches' ingredients are simply contemporary folk names for herbs and plants. That's not as funny, though.


Not everything is so simple with potions. If you think about it, for example a potion of strength, when consumed by a character, causes certain changes in the body, it can be considered as a drug that induces an adrenaline rush like methamphetamine. Does this mean that you can use drugs in the game?
The ability to communicate does not equate to intelligence, as demonstrated by people all over the world.
I eat just chicken and fish for meat but not all the time, like 1-2 times a month.

I use beans for protein on most days because they are cheaper.
just wow ......this is even a thread ...brilliant I love it !
Imagine what it would be like if we could speak to plants then?
I have a counter argument.

Give us a system to EAT any thinking life in the game.
Originally Posted by Sordak
I have a counter argument.

Give us a system to EAT any thinking life in the game.

That makes a lot of sense for some of the races that might potentially be playable. The obvious ones, such as half-orcs and dragonborn, might follow their less 'civilised' half and happily eat anything that was available. Beyond that, though, I completely see evil members of other sentient races being happy to eat other sentients, even if not actually being cannibals (i.e. eating their own race). In the early days of AD&D, a half-orc character tended to view a halfling on the party as travelling emergency rations.

Followers of Bhaal or Malar might even indulge as part of their ceremonies. Those following devils and demons, likewise.

I doubt very such that we will see such a system implemented in BG3, however. It might be a step too far for some.
Wouldn't it be more accurate that you are not really "talking", but merely that you are communicating with them on their level, via understanding their mimic and behaviour? This has little to do with animal intelligence, just one's own intelligence and knowledge allowing for deeper personal insight into animals and manipulating them in this way.

Can I use the Spell "Talk with Animals" and "Talk with the Dead" at the same time to talk to the pig's head in my inventory and learn about its fate?
Originally Posted by OneManArmy

Can I use the Spell "Talk with Animals" and "Talk with the Dead" at the same time to talk to the pig's head in my inventory and learn about its fate?

Don't talk to dead pig heads. They tend to be a bit of a boar.
Honestly this game cranks up animal intelligence to an extremely unreasonable degree. The way squirrels talk to the player is just as silly as if they would have a strength score of 18 and capable of yeeting dwarfs.

Animals talking shouldn't go past: "me hungry", "cave there", "me afraid" etc. Otherwise it's not an animal anymore, those animals would've integrated into the society a long time ago, would learn the language etc. When I meet a squirel like that my question is why is it not selling potions at the camp? Why isn't it carrying a pouch with nuts and gold coins?

Originally Posted by Sadurian
this raises that long-debated question over what constitutes cannibalism in a fantasy world


Same as in the real world: eating your own species. Your species is who you can procreate with to pass on your genes.

Originally Posted by OneManArmy

Not everything is so simple with potions. If you think about it, for example a potion of strength, when consumed by a character, causes certain changes in the body, it can be considered as a drug that induces an adrenaline rush like methamphetamine. Does this mean that you can use drugs in the game?


Yes it is exactly the same as using drugs. You can use drugs in this game.
Originally Posted by FatePeddler
Imagine what it would be like if we could speak to plants then?



Well I just cut up the excess growth on my mint plant and will make it into pesto later, but if plants could talk would it feel pain?

Though the lower leaves and stems were starting to die because it had gotten too big so it needed cutting.

Mint, butter, mozzarella cheese, almonds and cashews mushed up and into a jar. Getting some living Basil and Parsley soon along with pine nuts and parmesan cheeze blocks, but they are harder to grow.

Hmmm what the heck do vegans even do without dairy? Its already going to be full of crushed nut paste, what else would they substitute for the cheese? Can use oil instead of butter.

I keep forgetting to buy a food processor, I've been doing it by hand in a mortar and pestle so far.

Originally Posted by OneManArmy
I have a question for vegans:
Do you have any displeasure with eating meat in the game to replenish your health, preferring apples, rest and health potions? Or does it not matter to you if the meat is virtual?


I avoid it if it's not required as even though it's not real animals, the idea still repulses me. Besides, the icons for fruits and vegetables are much more colourful and appealing to me than a slab of animal flesh or whatever. I also tend to play druids so it fits with my druid characters mind set anyway. xD
Originally Posted by Tawkami

Originally Posted by OneManArmy
I have a question for vegans:
Do you have any displeasure with eating meat in the game to replenish your health, preferring apples, rest and health potions? Or does it not matter to you if the meat is virtual?


I avoid it if it's not required as even though it's not real animals, the idea still repulses me. Besides, the icons for fruits and vegetables are much more colourful and appealing to me than a slab of animal flesh or whatever. I also tend to play druids so it fits with my druid characters mind set anyway. xD


But carnivorism is a part of nature's balance.
Originally Posted by DumbleDorf
[quote=Tawkami]

But carnivorism is a part of nature's balance.


Yes, and carnivores fulfil that function. Most playable races are omnivores, like humans.
Originally Posted by OneManArmy

Can we eat intelligent beings?
How then will our hero be different from the goblins who roast the dwarf at the stake?


The inverse argument would be that in Faerun cannibalism should be normalised because every being is intelligent 🧠
Originally Posted by Tawkami
Originally Posted by DumbleDorf
[quote=Tawkami]

But carnivorism is a part of nature's balance.


Yes, and carnivores fulfil that function. Most playable races are omnivores, like humans.


And omnivores also fulfil the function of meat consumption. Druids wouldn't be vegan if their race is omnivorous.
I remembered an interesting situation with squirrels in "Rick and Morty" when Morty could talk to animals:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfkaLT5zxIY
I like meat 'rare', so I can taste their blood - hmm, I wonder if I'm a vampire....
Originally Posted by spaceweed10™
I like meat 'rare', so I can taste their blood - hmm, I wonder if I'm a vampire....


The very existence of a steak level of frying higher than "Medium Rare" insults my feelings as a meat eater
My Character has transcended the need to eat. He realized early on that meat in general is not only bad for your health, but bad for your soul. Then when talking to druids and various talking plant life, realized that plants too are not something you should consume, they are living too!

So he has taken the next step in evolution and decided not to eat anything. That is why he is better than any other species in BG3. He has since decided in helping his companions in refraining from consuming anything.

He's also decided not to breath. Inhaling miniscule life is also tantamount to genocide. It also helps block out all offensive odors you might see across the land.

What more he has since decided not to swim as he could contaminate the oceans and hurt all marine life. He has taken this to the next step and found a way to magically bar all land life from the waters of Faerûn! I implore you, try just TRY going for a swim. You can NOT!!

Originally Posted by Phoots
My Character has transcended the need to eat. He realized early on that meat in general is not only bad for your health, but bad for your soul. Then when talking to druids and various talking plant life, realized that plants too are not something you should consume, they are living too!

So he has taken the next step in evolution and decided not to eat anything. That is why he is better than any other species in BG3. He has since decided in helping his companions in refraining from consuming anything.

He's also decided not to breath. Inhaling miniscule life is also tantamount to genocide. It also helps block out all offensive odors you might see across the land.

What more he has since decided not to swim as he could contaminate the oceans and hurt all marine life. He has taken this to the next step and found a way to magically bar all land life from the waters of Faerûn! I implore you, try just TRY going for a swim. You can NOT!!

That's a terribly long way to say that your character just died....
Originally Posted by Nicottia
Been vegan for 5 years, due to health problems gone full vegetarian for about 7years (in total I haven't touched meat/fish for about 12 years now) and I really don't care about pixel food. All I care about is that it heals me in game and takes the damned weight off my chars bags, what was it, pork head or chops weight 20kg? Are you kidding me??

So while your idea might be nice, honestly, I would entirely remove food healing us from the game. Sure, for RP reasons or some hardcore realistic mode (I believe POE1 or 2 had modes where you had to eat food or you'd die), food can stay but it shouldn't heal us. Makes clerics pretty much redundant... like hp potions still have some use.


To be fair, anything I can do to relieve the necessity of Clerics healing is great. There's other things I want to do with those spell slots.
Side note, though, while the way they're doing Speak with Animals is amusing, the paper game notes that you're only going to get the info the animal would actually understand/care about. Of course, these are animals at a druid grove...so it's even odds that the animals there are more self-aware and intelligent than normal.
I like a more involved conversation with the animals I speak to. I felt let down in games when I went to speak to an animal and all it said was a meaningless single word. Sure, a squirrel will likely only be interested in nuts and predators, but having a small animal rant at you and warn you not to climb its trees is superb.
Originally Posted by Sadurian
I like a more involved conversation with the animals I speak to. I felt let down in games when I went to speak to an animal and all it said was a meaningless single word. Sure, a squirrel will likely only be interested in nuts and predators, but having a small animal rant at you and warn you not to climb its trees is superb.



There is such a thing in the game now, there is a daring squirrel somewhere in the druid camp
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Originally Posted by Sadurian
I like a more involved conversation with the animals I speak to. I felt let down in games when I went to speak to an animal and all it said was a meaningless single word. Sure, a squirrel will likely only be interested in nuts and predators, but having a small animal rant at you and warn you not to climb its trees is superb.



There is such a thing in the game now, there is a daring squirrel somewhere in the druid camp

That's the one I was talking about, but I didn't specify exactly where it was because it seems like a revelation like that needs a spoiler tag.

On my first play-through I was unable to talk with it and thought it was trying to alert me to the nearby
bugbear assassin
. Nothing quite so philanthropic.
Originally Posted by Sadurian

That's a terribly long way to say that your character just died....


My character is alive and well in a game world were we are not required to eat, drink or breath and can't swim. It was my attempt at humor in relation to those limitations.

As an aside, I think the quest the OP mentioned would be a great Druid quest!

Originally Posted by Phoots
Originally Posted by Sadurian

That's a terribly long way to say that your character just died....


My character is alive and well in a game world were we are not required to eat, drink or breath and can't swim. It was my attempt at humor in relation to those limitations

I knew that. I'm afraid I was also attempting humour. I probably should have added a winking smiley.
The convoluted inventory/crafting system in Larian's last game annoyed me to no end. So here's hoping there will be LESS of excessively complex inventory shenanigans rather than more. I'm an OCD loot goblin and overly complex inventory and crafting detracts from my gaming experience. For me being a pack-mule is anti-RP as is eating 10 apples and drinking 5 mugs of milk to recover from serious wounds. These things should be abstracted to a large degree in my opinion.
I play a hunter and would rather they make a full kill, skin, and eat system. Even crafting out of the animal skin would be good.
Posted By: OneManArmy Re: Vegetarianism sustem in the game - 02/11/20 08:09 AM
thk Firesnakearies for this screen

[Linked Image]

As we can see, the game offers a really large selection of products for both vegetarians and meat eaters!
Meat restores more HP, but is harder to find
Posted By: Dogmatis Re: Vegetarianism sustem in the game - 02/11/20 09:09 AM
I disagree with this whole thing 100%. If you want to role play a character that doesn't eat meat that's fine, but we can leave it at that, otherwise we have to start worrying about implementing systems that acknowledge everyone's life choices in RPG games to keep everyone happy. This is high fantasy, not 21st century western society sim.
Not to mention that those 3 animals would feed a lot of refugees who are already low on food and supplies. Might as well take away their bread as well because you are against eating gluten and/or kill them.
Posted By: Soul-Scar Re: Vegetarianism sustem in the game - 02/11/20 02:50 PM
Vegans are as far from Druids as mushrooms are from poptarts. We will save A cow but burn down 500 sq miles of Druid habitat because they need the land for coffee and soybeans as they plan to open a string of moonbucks franchises in Waterdeep. That's chaotic evil my freind, leave the cows alone they happy enough.

You want more involved conversations with animals...... What like their opinion on current trade union rules or would you prefer romance options? What is a squirrel going to have insight into other than burying knuts? Have you ever seen a cow? What wisdom do you believe you can gain from an animal with a brain the size of a tennis ball?
Posted By: Dexai Re: Vegetarianism sustem in the game - 02/11/20 03:01 PM
Cows usually have pretty wise eyes.
Posted By: Firesnakearies Re: Vegetarianism sustem in the game - 02/11/20 03:29 PM
Cows are sacred for a reason. #Harmoony
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Baldurs Gate has a Speak with Animals spell. If you use it, it becomes clear that animals have intelligence, they have their own opinions, feelings, dreams. This is already a double reason to fight against animal abuse.

Can we eat intelligent beings?
How then will our hero be different from the goblins who roast the dwarf at the stake?

The game has already implemented a vegetarianism system: in order to replenish health, the player has the freedom of choice: he can eat meat, or he can eat fruits and drink health potions. So everyone can answer this question on their own

But is it possible to do a quest to rescue the bulls from the tiefling camp in order for them to find freedom? And escape the terrible fate of being eaten.



Posts like this are why we need more content, people are losing rational thought through boredom.

However I am bored enough to answer: The second you let a domestic animal lose in a non civilised world something will eat it.

That's why adventurers carry all those weapons. To stop from being eaten.
https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=747387#Post747387

I see this topic is being discussed again. Therefore, I up the topic.
Why this need to politicize, or put ideology in everything? I'm a very political person but I know how to put boundaries. Pretty sure the writers didn't thought about a vegetarian option (or any option at all) they just put on all the possibles foods they could, from egs to apples throug meat from bovines, suines, ovines, little game, and so on.

About the talking with animals, it is just how the writers translated what probably are images telepathically transmitted from the animal.

Then we filter them aligning them with our personal point of view. Just like in real life tend to humanize our pets giving them more credit than they need (they are animals, more complex than was thought in past but still a lot of steps away from that complexity that made human intelligence, summed with erect position and opposable thumbs, one of the traits that gave us the fitness necessary to became the apex of the food pyramid and the ultimate super predator).


Furthermore there is humongous contradiction: in the game, unless you were able to do a full stealth run (impossible because you have at least to kill the goblins that attack the party at the gates of the Druid's Lair, and the Goblin bosses or the druids in the Lair), for your own wellness (just like eating animals) you go around ready to kill proper sentient beings (from the more intellectual limited ones like gnolls, to humans, through Goblins, Drows, Mindfliers, etc etc.. ...) and up to know I haven't read anyone (specially from the ones interested on the level of intelligence of the animals in the game) asking if is really moral to kill, or massacre, sentient beings for the sole purpose to maintain our own wellness, neither I saw posts that question the ethics of trying to kill a sentient being like the tadpole, or pushing for a full stealth no killing run.
I am actually of the opinion that animal intelligence should be tuned down, otherwise world building problems arise like I described in my thread. With animals as intelligent as they currently are there is no reason for them not to be integrated into the society.
I have it on good authority that healing potions all use animal byproducts in their creation, so if want to go vegan it is veggies only!

-Sarcasm-
This is a great idea. Then several Tieflings die of starvation and the entire camp utterly despise you for your actions once you reach Baldur's Gate.
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