Hi,

Currently playing as a drow and noticing that this race has the most benefits, superior dark vision is one on them, but quest wise - goblins worship me and I can walk around Goblin base as a boss, one would say thats ok if some evil characters think you are evil as well, but surely I will get some penalties from good characters, right?

Nope.

Except for some unique answers - nobody pays too much attention that I am a drow, for instance, those warriors that got slaughtered at the burning house and their grand duke of something got kidnapped by a drow raiders... completely ignore the fact that I am a drow, there should be at least some distrust or something.

To sum up - game needs more racism or xenophobia (that sounded terrible haha), or some kind of opinion penalties to make it more realistic and challenging.

The drow is actually the character type with the most unique dialogue by far. Just to make sure I understand, your concern is that there's not enough?

It does sound like that, does it not?
No, I think the main concern is that you do not face any hardship as a drow, quite the contrary, you only experience bonuses. Whether this is good or bad depends on the player, I imagine.


I also do not know how to bring in those additional 'bad experiences' for a drow player, other than adding even more unique lines for the drow. We also do not yet have the full game, so we can not 100% say that there isn't any drawback for a drow character just yet.

I welcome highlighting the issue though, even if we do not yet know if it is in game. An idea might come up to offer that drawback. Like additional loss of approval from non-companion NPCs if you are caught doing something bad.

No I get what you mean now and you're right. It's incredibly stupid to give a drow character only benefits. I still remember how everyone was treating Viconia in bg

The scene at Waukeen's Rest feels so unreal when you play as a drow and counselor Forrick informs you the duke was kidnapped by drow raiders but doesn't at least question your allegiance.

There should be much more contempt and fear when you go to the grove and when you meet humans or elves in general, I agree.

Drow nowadays are like Twilight vampires. They're no longer scary or hated, they're sparkly shiny cool kids.

Yes. This was so strange that they did not attack me. I do not wish for easy mode in this game, hopefully there will be more difficulties later on while playing one. Not all of us are wannabe Drizzt.

The burned down inn should be much more hostile towards drow than the rest of the map, I think. The tieflings who captured Lae'zel are also much more hostile towards drow than most other races.

Other than that it is a bit hard to tell, for now, Baldur's gate as a city should be dangerous for a drow player, but considering who we meet in act1 so far it is not so odd drow have an advantage. As long as it changes later on when you visit more civilized areas.

The same goes for githyanki. When people questioned the idea of having such an outlandish, uncivilized race in the game, Larian promised that the world would respond realistically to them. But aside from the occasional glib remark about your race, there's nothing in the game so far that acknowledges the fact that you're basically a literal alien. NPCs barely treat you any different. It's nowhere near the reactions that you should be met by when you show up in Faerûn as a githyanki, so it's a really shallow experience. Drow should likewise be treated by locals in a manner that ranges from screaming horror to violent hostility, depending on the individual. A drow waltzing into a druid's grove would be attacked on sight. These races should not be playable in a game where much of the gameplay takes place in relatively civilized areas amongst normal denizens of Faerûn.

The grove is different though since to reach it in the first place, you first must help in its defense. No matter what race you are if you defend the gates it should buy you quite a bit of goodwill.

In Original Sin 2 when you played elder race (or skeleton) you could disguise yourself, maybe Larian should implement something of the sorts (but without ripping off faces haha), like wearing a veil or a hood/helmet.

There is already disguise self spell.

In the current woke enviroment WotC won't allow Larian to give Drow penalties, notice that there is no sunlight sensitivity, which the Drow were designed around originally? Drow are going to be the most broken race, at least until Yuan Ti Purebloods get implemented.

Pretty sure our dark passenger lets us walk in the sun.. the goblins kind of hint to that. But I do agree with OP. As a Gith the only appropriate reaction to my race was with shadowheart... imo everyone at the grove should behave the same.. well if they know what a Githy is. Same with drow.. if you happen to see a drow in your town that isnt married to a red haired human you can assume they are here to kill someone.

Drow do get more special lines, I am noticing this in my evil playthrough, but I would say in general all races have a similar experience and all of them might as well be humans in the narrative. There is very little racial differentiation even though Forgotten Realms does an excellent job at describing nuances and differences between races, it is sad to see very little of it reflected.

On the other hand, it must be so difficult to adapt so much diversity in a new generation game like this is. So I guess we have to be ready to accept it will not be a 100% dnd experience when it comes to the setting. It's just a gigantic work.

I hope that the other races will get more options even in the content currently in the game, maybe the drow are just the most fleshed out in that area.

That being said I do think it is reasonable that some races will get more options than others depending on the situation.

Drow get so many lines in fact. Even when you find some drow armor, the party members comment on the fact it has lost its magic potency while your drow character is just boasting about they are good armors. It clearly shows how much emphasis devs have put on the race.

I won't say I am complaining. I like drow. But yeah, I agree, other races deserve more specific lines too.

There should be several instances where quests are flat out locked out for drow or they are attacked on sight in a normally peaceful or neutral encounter. But I doubt Larian (and WotC) will allow that.

Drow had drawbacks to somewhat counter their insane bonuses in 3rd and prior editions, like SR11+level, +2 Dex, Int, AND Cha (-2 Con). In 5e, compared with Wood elves or shield dwarves, drow bonuses kind of suck now. Giving them their penalties back would make them nigh unplayable.

I don't think anyone suggested stat penalties, but something more along the lines of dialogue, quest and story penalities... because drow.

I did my first playthrough as a seldarine drow and I gotta say - I was shocked at how many extra lines of dialogue you get compared to something like a high elf (my 2nd run), you feel a bit extra special compared to the other races, that's true. What I didn't like was the fact that as a drow, the entire goblin camp is just too easy, they basically brown-nose you to the max. But I totally agree that there should be a lot more hate towards drow in general, I do hope that once we reach the titular city, we'll encounter some hate, even if we play a 'good' drow and go out of our way to help everyone we met before that.

Also, speaking of extra lines - Zevlor says something along the lines of 'you are brave not to hide your heritage' as a drow specific line, so it makes me think that once we reach Baldur's Gate, we'll have to wear a cape or a cloak or something to disguise ourselves.

Talking about the city, I hope they add some hoods and full helmets so as a drow you can hide yourself. Would be neat.

I agree with the prevailing opinion here that drow and gith shouldn't be treated the same as halflings and humans by most people. I'm playing a gith on my current playthrough and most people don't even acknowledge it, like they see gith every day. I haven't tried drow yet but they should be looked at with mistrust by almost everyone they meet. Pretty much everyone in Faerun views drow that way and with good reason I might add.

+1. There is very little reason, story/interaction-wise, to pick a human or other standard race over a drow in the game rn. Drow just get so many more options. To bring in the very contentious Community Update #8, Character Creation, it does appear like Larian has a favored race(s) that they've put much more work into.

Although I wouldn't want every NPC to be hostile, my Lolth-Sworn Drow PC should definitely have to put in some work (e.g., disguise self, persuasion check) to have friendly conversations with a some NPCs

Sorry, this is reserved for druids now. Only against Tieflings.

LOL, yeah. That's kind of odd but the thing I found to be the most strange about the tiefling/druid arrangement was how the tieflings, supposedly just refugees, were the ones in charge of the gate to the grove (what kind of druid grove has a mechanical gate anyway for that matter?)

Regarding the druid interaction with drow, I disagree with what one person posted earlier about how drow should be unwelcome at the druid grove. Druids are traditionally neutral and see evil as necessary to maintain the balance. I wouldn't think druids would reject drow, or any evil, just for the sake of them being evil.

I'm old school and well, ya, old. I never liked when all these additional playable races came on the scene. Dragon born, etc. just not a fan. Core races and that's it, everything else is super rare or a bad guy to kill. Not all but most top dwelling Drow should be Half Drow anyway given their propensity for raping err raiding parties.. But I see the appeal. This is a single player game for individual enjoyment, so do what you want etc. That said, I certainly intend to play a Half Drow, but yeah there should be some distrust.

I like how they kind of forgot to involve the druids in what is supposedly a huge issue for them and now that issue is taking care of itself. It even gets worse when you and your party show up because the situation would never have resolved without your involvement. Guess those poor refugees will have to live in those comfortable huge caves nobody else is using forever.




Right now the druids are tolerant of all races except Tieflings, who they (or Kagha anyway) hate to the point of being okay with murdering them and their children. There is actually a line for when the player meets Kagha as a Duergar, where she calls you "someone from below" in a contemptuous manner. I wonder how that will pan out once we can play as a druid ourselves.



Don't look in the datamining thread then my good sir. You will be unpleasantly surprised.

As per 5e drow should have disadvantage for combat in direct sunlight.

That's the beauty of a single player game, you can do what you want based on what they create.

Back in olden times all demi-humans were limited in game terms, with everything from level caps to racism. Haven't bought a rule book since 2nd ed but this seems to have been totally removed from the modern game making them all the same as humans. Which in itself is wrong.

As for Drow being accepted without that many comments in the Forgotten Realms? The most famous Drow was hounded from civilization and ended up living in Icewind Dale, and even then not in any of the towns. Again the modern game doesn't take this into account. DDO can get away with it as they are on Ebberron.

er, forgotten what point I was going to make.

but I blame WOTC, as always.

btw, when are we getting 6 character slots?

I have been quoted incorrectly! Libel!! :P

I have been quoted incorrectly! Libel!! :P

opps bad quote foo.

as for that datamining thread I'm not upset about the content but rather people hell bent on spoiling portions of the game. But that offtopic, sorry giving thread back to OP

Drows need drawbacks

More like drowbacks.

I'll see myself out.

In fairness, you haven't been in contact with many normal people.. Tieflings have a lot of the same stigma that drow have so they're probably a lot less prejudiced against them than most would be, and druids.. well, they aren't really normal either.

I also strongly disagree with the idea that drow have the most advantages. I think if you're min-maxing there's basically no reason you should ever pick a drow over a half elf. Half elves also increase charisma (and if you aren't using charisma drow are kind of just worse than elves too), plus half elves let you put +1 in 2 stats of your choice which both gives more versatility and more stat points in total than drow (and they can get to 16 in 3 stats, especially CON). Half elves can also get the +movement speed from wood elves which is a pretty great bonus too.

You could look at things as being hilariously reversed. You play as a drow and go around and everyones tolerant of you, yet the lolth sworn lines you are able to use are cartoonishly villainous. Maybe they tried a 'bring your own evil' approach, but that sort of detracts from the experience i think.

Also it might be questionable. The old way of the world which hates the drow and the cliche good drows trying their best teaches the idea of 'dont judge a book by its cover'. As tired as the trope became i dont think any specific 'good drow' and how it was handled would be criticized. The concept of the trope could be criticized by the playerbase while retaining sympathy for specific good drows and their struggles.

But what does this teach us now? That the world is now accepting of drow, but as the racial dialogue choices show us that 'some races' can be evil just because their race unlocks the power to be evil in new ways through their bloodline? A hilarious reversal of the desired message.

As far as benefits however as stated already drow really arent optimal for anything. If they had the elf perception bonus they would be, but currently half wood elves are better. The better darkvision is a nice quality of life improvement though, really lights things up.

Fast clap.

If this is wrong I don’t want to be right.

I am drow-ning this out right now!

I for one think it's handled quite well at the moment:
- those two guarding La'Zel basically shit themselves upon encountering an "underelf"
- upon entering druid grove Zevlor specifically mentions they were taught to fear the drow, but that you've earned your place here and he's gonna update everyone on it, so that explains why they're mostly accepting. Still someone definitely mentions being
surprised about you not walking around in disguise
- Burning inn - well they have a certain emergency going on so it kinda makes sense to accept help wherever it might come from and you're not accompanied by goblins so...
- as for Goblins you're a drow and True Soul so I don't think that even warrants further debate - worth mentioning Drow disguise works here as well (either on PC or any of the companions)
- Zhentarim - as evidenced by Roah they're currently working with goblins and the drow sooo
- Halsin actually expresses some sort of disdain and you can even confront him on it


So to drow a line (couldn't resist) I expect some problems later on, maybe even an obligatory disguise for some places but so far in-game reactions to PC being drow make sense.

And kagha mentions an under elf as a gift in the grove. She's def not on the right side of things, speaking of normal reactions.

I think it all makes sense except for burning inn. I mean, their dude was captured by drow. And they have no reaction at all to a drow showing up... And even in normal circumstances they should probably turn hostile on drow. I don't think the reputation of the drow from the flaming fist has changed in the last 100 years.

At the very least you should have to do a very difficult persuasion check to convince them you're actually drizzt or something.

The underdark is the most hostile environement imaginable and contains every big bad from mindflayers, beholders and even dark gods like Lolth. If there was a fluffy bunny in the underdark it would monty python your aas before laying eggs in your dying body with the added bonus the eggs will keep you alive and in perpetual torment for a millennia.

The Drow call this place home sweet home. They see in the pitch darkness like a humans do in the midday sun. When the Drow come to the surface they attack in the dead of night where all you would hear is screams and torment from the pitch of night before a deathly silence. The lucky ones will have died, the unlucky ones will be dragged to the underdark to be sold as slaves or thrown in pits of spiders to be torn apart for the entertainment of the masses. These villages and towns would be found afterwards with the odd villager in acute mental trauma after seeing the mutillated bits and pieces of friends and family and whos only memory is of the screams of loved ones being hacked to pieces.

The Drow are cruel without purpose, without mercy or conscience and only live to please their respective god. The red eyes of the Drow is a blessing of Lolith to inspire fear in all races they encounter, it is their raison d'être. The Drow are at constant war with themselves and only the most ruthless survive to adulthood. Nothing good EVER follows the Drow, if someone is lucky/unlucky enough to actually see a Drow they dont hang about to find out what mood it's in. That goes for most of the "civilised" races in D&D.

So if someone sees a high elf they say hey dude hows it going? If someone sees a Drow they don't say anything, the only evidence someone was in the area would be brown stinky footprint heading literally anywhere else.

I hope this goes some way to explain the dialogue choices.