Larian Studios
Posted By: pinklily Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 09:11 AM
Hi all~ I figured I'd make a general discussion thread for the romances of the game. What we'd like to see from them, predictions, thoughts and theories, what we like and what we don't like.

This is kind of a carry over from this thread: (warning: spoilers)
https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=723625&page=1

Although this began as a thread for a Halsin Romance is spiraled into a discussion between Astarion devotees (of which I am one.)

For me, one of the biggest draws for massive character driven games is the romance. The Bioware games have, by and large, the masters of this. But with Bioware going downhill over the years, I'm very hopeful that Larian can fill the void.

Big things I would like to see:
- a great deal more character interactions based on approval
- More opportunities to get approval ratings from character conversations
- Player influenced character development (good characters may become less good, evil characters may become less evil depending on player choices.)
- additional romance options based on choices (Halsin for the good route, Minthara for evil route)
- actual happy endings! Maybe this sounds childish but fantasy games offer escapism. I don't want tragedies. I have enough of those in real life! (I can deal with a degree of heartache but, please, no terrible, unavoidable endings to the romances.)

P.S.
Romance Discord: https://discord.gg/JnPcvGr
Thank you Vamathi for sharing it!

Posted By: Vamathi Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 10:38 AM
Continuation from the Halsin thread ¬

Originally Posted by Nicottia
Oh, Astarion is definitely hiding something, but I wouldn't call him a liar for it, he's just not really forthcoming with information, just like some of the other companions... *cough* Shadowheart *cough* Wyll *cough*. The only 2 ridiculously honest ones are: Gale, altho it takes him a while to get there, and Lae'zel - she wants to become a dragon rider. That is all she wants. Oh, and creeeeeche.

Well, about gur and Astarion, I just assumed he had an uncharacteristic, for a 9INT character, strike of 6th sense.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Gur Maybe he just guessed by Gandrel's appearance that he's a gur or all that scented crap has given him away. Speaking of which, I wonder how strong is a vampire's sense of smell. Well, Astarion does say that he was attacked by gur on that fateful night when Cazador had found him, maybe he has the same obsession with gur that Spike (Buffy the Vampire Slayer series) has with killing slayers? Who knows?
About Cazador hunting Astarion, I do think it has something to do with those big scars on Astarion's back. Just a guess.

And Astarion wasn't on the run, when you mind meld with him for the first time you get a vision that he's been prowling dark busy streets (presumably for Cazador), then he got snatched away by the illithids and the rest is history. We don't rightly know how long Astarion has been held captive by the mind flayers, it could be a day, a week? I daresay it's safe to assume it's been long enough to get Cazador angered though.
But whatever the case might be, I do agree, it requires some further explanation.


It's hard to trust him, but it's also hard not to get yourself completely smitten XD
I find some of his approval up choices very curious. Some food for thought and heavy spoilers:
For example if you buy the artist in Zhentarim hideout - there is an option to tell Astarion that he is your slave, and he approves of it.He also both approves if the MC tortures Liam or gets tortured by the follower of Loviatar; is it just because he is a vampire, or is there some loose screws in that porcelain head?

There are definitely some missing dialogue chains with Astarion; possibly just not triggering completely.
The most obvious one is if he kills you MC during feeding, I mean... Really? He doesn't address this at all?

I've been retrying different quest paths to see, if I can meet the Hunter to get the knowledge that there is a vampire lurking about. Basically confront Astarion and tell him I know or that I am suspicious of him?
I tried both letting Astarion kill the Hunter and leaving him alone, without the knowledge on my PC that Astarion is a the vampire; For reference and and flipping out.
I don't think Astarion kills him just because he feels like we are being pulled in by a story of this mild hunter. This dialogue pops up if you tell him 'What the hells? He could have helped us!'
Another thing is that if you tell Astarion after killing Gandrel out of nowhere - 'Trust you? After that?' - he responds with this.

If my point isn't clear yet: I believe Astarion is seducing the PC to be obedient and not to question him. He wants a full trust from you, but sees why you wouldn't and I had the same feeling through multiple playthroughs.
Is he already on the power hunt as soon as he joins the party? He might have even thought he could just control us all, at some point; if the tadpole grows strong enough.
In datamined VA I found him saying: 'Never play a player.' and 'Oh you never know, someday you might end up as me?' Neither if which did I recognize from my previous playthroughs. Lastly I believe he will likely say this at some point during your encounter in Moonrise:
'Trading some whelp we've just met for impossible power? It's a fine deal.'

Unfortunately I went through several different paths, there wasn't a new dialogue option for when he would eventually trigger the feeding scene and reveal he is a vampire himself, nor was there any new dialogue option when we found the dead boar.
Only after the cinematic you can go to him and ask this, if you already killed the Gur; but he doesn't reveal anything new and sticks to his story. When we didn't kill the Gur before Astarion's reveal, there was no new dialogue.

There is also a way to get the knowledge that it is Astarion that the Gur is looking for before he tells you he is a vampire - for reference.
If you hire him after, you can't address this at all.

You might be right that Astarion identified Gur based on appearance; I tought he looked bit too much like a generic human tbh


Originally Posted by Nicottia
My first run was with a seldarine drow female cleric of Eilistraee, and of course I did romance Astarion on that run... although... for a 'good aligned cleric' it makes little to no sense to romance an undead creature... so my roleplaying skills were shit that day. laugh

My 2nd full run was with a high elven female wizard, I was curious if Astarion's lines would change at all for her being a high elf and a noble, but nope. 0 recognition aside from them both being baldurians... Larian, please fix, make backgrounds matter!

On my 3rd run I tried a warlock, but I haven't finished that one... I may have gotten a nasty case of rerollitis (it's what I call constantly creating new characters and deleting them later). Honestly? I am waiting for sorcerer to be implemented. I absolutely love that class. Oh speaking of warlocks, I was shocked when I found that Astarion does recognize you being a warlock for once, after Raphael's little visit, he confronts with something along the lines of 'you are a warlock, you know the importance of making a bad deal'. Makes me wonder how come he doesn't recognize a goddamn cleric on spot. Especially considering clerics have turn undead, heals (which technically should damage undead creatures like... errr.. vampires maybe?). I blame his 9INT. wink

Long story short, I haven't romanced another character but Astarion in BG3. Send help. laugh

And yes, Astarion's voice actor is amazing. And sorry you lost your job. ;(

Honestly I will definitely attempt to sway Astarion from the more evil/power-hungry route if that's what's gonna happen. I actually think drow Eilistraee cleric makes a lot of sense! You could just genuinely want to free him and potentially bring him back to life. She seems like a good deity for that and the drow involvement is clear as well. I just don't know if our hearts will be shattered or not...

Oh I suffer from rerolling as well, but I find Cleric the most useful if I want to run through the game and try a couple of different options. I even run two clerics party as I really don't have to care about picking out almost anything else. I have a secret wish that we would get the unofficial class - blood hunter. That would be interesting party dynamic with Astarion.

And thank you <3

Posted By: pinklily Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 11:02 AM
Originally Posted by Vamathi
Continuation from the Halsin thread ¬

Originally Posted by Nicottia
Oh, Astarion is definitely hiding something, but I wouldn't call him a liar for it, he's just not really forthcoming with information, just like some of the other companions... *cough* Shadowheart *cough* Wyll *cough*. The only 2 ridiculously honest ones are: Gale, altho it takes him a while to get there, and Lae'zel - she wants to become a dragon rider. That is all she wants. Oh, and creeeeeche.

Well, about gur and Astarion, I just assumed he had an uncharacteristic, for a 9INT character, strike of 6th sense.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Gur Maybe he just guessed by Gandrel's appearance that he's a gur or all that scented crap has given him away. Speaking of which, I wonder how strong is a vampire's sense of smell. Well, Astarion does say that he was attacked by gur on that fateful night when Cazador had found him, maybe he has the same obsession with gur that Spike (Buffy the Vampire Slayer series) has with killing slayers? Who knows?
About Cazador hunting Astarion, I do think it has something to do with those big scars on Astarion's back. Just a guess.

And Astarion wasn't on the run, when you mind meld with him for the first time you get a vision that he's been prowling dark busy streets (presumably for Cazador), then he got snatched away by the illithids and the rest is history. We don't rightly know how long Astarion has been held captive by the mind flayers, it could be a day, a week? I daresay it's safe to assume it's been long enough to get Cazador angered though.
But whatever the case might be, I do agree, it requires some further explanation.


It's hard to trust him, but it's also hard not to get yourself completely smitten XD
I find some of his approval up choices very curious. Some food for thought and heavy spoilers:
For example if you buy the artist in Zhentarim hideout - there is an option to tell Astarion that he is your slave, and he approves of it.He also both approves if the MC tortures Liam or gets tortured by the follower of Loviatar; is it just because he is a vampire, or is there some loose screws in that porcelain head?

There are definitely some missing dialogue chains with Astarion; possibly just not triggering completely.
The most obvious one is if he kills you MC during feeding, I mean... Really? He doesn't address this at all?

I've been retrying different quest paths to see, if I can meet the Hunter to get the knowledge that there is a vampire lurking about. Basically confront Astarion and tell him I know or that I am suspicious of him?
I tried both letting Astarion kill the Hunter and leaving him alone, without the knowledge on my PC that Astarion is a the vampire; For reference and and flipping out.
I don't think Astarion kills him just because he feels like we are being pulled in by a story of this mild hunter. This dialogue pops up if you tell him 'What the hells? He could have helped us!'
Another thing is that if you tell Astarion after killing Gandrel out of nowhere - 'Trust you? After that?' - he responds with this.

Unfortunately I went through several different paths, there wasn't a new dialogue option for when he would eventually trigger the feeding scene and reveal he is a vampire himself, nor was there any new dialogue option when we found the dead boar.
Only after the cinematic you can go to him and ask this, if you already killed the Gur; but he doesn't reveal anything new and sticks to his story. When we didn't kill the Gur before Astarion's reveal, there was no new dialogue.

There is also a way to get the knowledge that it is Astarion that the Gur is looking for before he tells you he is a vampire - for reference.
If you hire him after, you can't address this at all.

You might be right that Astarion identified Gur based on appearance; I tought he looked bit too much like a generic human tbh


Originally Posted by Nicottia
My first run was with a seldarine drow female cleric of Eilistraee, and of course I did romance Astarion on that run... although... for a 'good aligned cleric' it makes little to no sense to romance an undead creature... so my roleplaying skills were shit that day. laugh

My 2nd full run was with a high elven female wizard, I was curious if Astarion's lines would change at all for her being a high elf and a noble, but nope. 0 recognition aside from them both being baldurians... Larian, please fix, make backgrounds matter!

On my 3rd run I tried a warlock, but I haven't finished that one... I may have gotten a nasty case of rerollitis (it's what I call constantly creating new characters and deleting them later). Honestly? I am waiting for sorcerer to be implemented. I absolutely love that class. Oh speaking of warlocks, I was shocked when I found that Astarion does recognize you being a warlock for once, after Raphael's little visit, he confronts with something along the lines of 'you are a warlock, you know the importance of making a bad deal'. Makes me wonder how come he doesn't recognize a goddamn cleric on spot. Especially considering clerics have turn undead, heals (which technically should damage undead creatures like... errr.. vampires maybe?). I blame his 9INT. wink

Long story short, I haven't romanced another character but Astarion in BG3. Send help. laugh

And yes, Astarion's voice actor is amazing. And sorry you lost your job. ;(

Honestly I will definitely attempt to sway Astarion from the more evil/power-hungry route if that's what's gonna happen. I actually think drow Eilistraee cleric makes a lot of sense! You could just genuinely want to free him and potentially bring him back to life. She seems like a good deity for that and the drow involvement is clear as well. I just don't know if our hearts will be shattered or not...

Oh I suffer from rerolling as well, but I find Cleric the most useful if I want to run through the game and try a couple of different options. I even run two clerics party as I really don't have to care about picking out almost anything else. I have a secret wish that we would get the unofficial class - blood hunter. That would be interesting party dynamic with Astarion.

And thank you <3



You put a lot of work into this! I applaud your dedication. This is all very interesting.

I'm really hoping we get some additional dialogues that reference a character's race and background. That would really help with overall immersion, as well as make the interactions more interesting across different playthroughs.

I really hope they add some lines for situations like when he accidentally kills the MC. He makes that comment about "don't look at me" but then when you get revived and talk to him he completely skips the post feeding conversation. When you ask him about it he goes straight to the "I already apologized" dialogue. I feel like an additional conversation here is absolutely necessary since the MC can be revived and it's not a game over.

And you touch on what I was referring to when I mentioned that Astarion lies. Not regarding the Cazador stuff and his background, but there's just a general deceptiveness to his treatment of the MC. So I don't mean lies in terms of direct untruths, so much as most of his behavior is an act and you can see this drop when he gets frustrated/frightened. But it's an element of his character I find interesting. The act is largely part of his barrier to keep people at a distance. I'm curious about how this may change over time.

And yes, my biggest, biggest hope is that the romances will have multiple paths depending on how the MC plays. I really hope a good natured MC can help Astarion through a redemption arc. I absolutely love those kinds of stories. I don't want him to change inherently as a character. Just to come to see the world in a different light and (hopefully) have a good ending with the MC.

But I'm still readying myself for heartbreak. frown
Posted By: Callimachus Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 11:09 AM
To tell the truth, while I am a big proponent of romances (especially same sex ones) in video games, and their existence is a major factor in my deciding to buy a game, honestly none of the LIs in the game so far is very appealing to me. Gale is arrogant, condescending and speaks to me like I'm a 6 year old, and not a very smart one at that, Astarion would kill me without batting a lid and then get annoyed if I found that out of line, Wyll, while the most palatable, is just this weird man-child with delusions of grandeur, and if we add the girls to the mix (which I usually don't, but just for completeness sake), Shadowheart is just evil and mean, while Lae'zel seems to combine all the worst of Gale and Shadowheart.
If the rumours (and contaminants) are true, and the rest of the party are indeed Minsc, Karlach, and this Helia woman, I am left with no real romance. Courting Minsc, with his mental condition sounds exploitative and creepy (to me, you do you). And the other two, while unknown for now, are women... So... Yeah... I'm at a loss.
Posted By: Uncle Lester Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 11:10 AM
Unpopular opinion: I'd like the option to completely turn romance off.
Posted By: Callimachus Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 11:14 AM
You can... Just don't pursue it...
Posted By: pinklily Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 11:14 AM
Originally Posted by Callimachus
To tell the truth, while I am a big proponent of romances (especially same sex ones) in video games, and their existence is a major factor in my deciding to buy a game, honestly none of the LIs in the game so far is very appealing to me. Gale is arrogant, condescending and speaks to me like I'm a 6 year old, and not a very smart one at that, Astarion would kill me without batting a lid and then get annoyed if I found that out of line, Wyll, while the most palatable, is just this weird man-child with delusions of grandeur, and if we add the girls to the mix (which I usually don't, but just for completeness sake), Shadowheart is just evil and mean, while Lae'zel seems to combine all the worst of Gale and Shadowheart.
If the rumours (and contaminants) are true, and the rest of the party are indeed Minsc, Karlach, and this Helia woman, I am left with no real romance. Courting Minsc, with his mental condition sounds exploitative and creepy (to me, you do you). And the other two, while unknown for now, are women... So... Yeah... I'm at a loss.


While I personally adore Astarion, I get why none of the current companions would be appealing. I 100% agree regarding Minsc. I feel like he'd be a great platonic option for people who just want friendships but I don't feel like he's a good option for the "good" aligned male romance. This is why I'm advocating for a Halsin romance in this thread's parent thread. He's a character who is good looking, charming, warm and friendly toward the mc. If he isn't a romance option in the final game I think it would be a massive missed opportunity.
Posted By: Vamathi Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 12:31 PM
Originally Posted by pinklily
You put a lot of work into this! I applaud your dedication. This is all very interesting.

I'm really hoping we get some additional dialogues that reference a character's race and background. That would really help with overall immersion, as well as make the interactions more interesting across different playthroughs.

I really hope they add some lines for situations like when he accidentally kills the MC. He makes that comment about "don't look at me" but then when you get revived and talk to him he completely skips the post feeding conversation. When you ask him about it he goes straight to the "I already apologized" dialogue. I feel like an additional conversation here is absolutely necessary since the MC can be revived and it's not a game over.

And you touch on what I was referring to when I mentioned that Astarion lies. Not regarding the Cazador stuff and his background, but there's just a general deceptiveness to his treatment of the MC. So I don't mean lies in terms of direct untruths, so much as most of his behavior is an act and you can see this drop when he gets frustrated/frightened. But it's an element of his character I find interesting. The act is largely part of his barrier to keep people at a distance. I'm curious about how this may change over time.

And yes, my biggest, biggest hope is that the romances will have multiple paths depending on how the MC plays. I really hope a good natured MC can help Astarion through a redemption arc. I absolutely love those kinds of stories. I don't want him to change inherently as a character. Just to come to see the world in a different light and (hopefully) have a good ending with the MC.

But I'm still readying myself for heartbreak. frown

Added this since you read it I think;
If my point isn't clear yet: I believe Astarion is seducing the PC to be obedient and not to question him. He wants a full trust from you, but sees why you wouldn't and I had the same feeling through multiple playthroughs.
Is he already on the power hunt as soon as he joins the party? He might have even thought he could just control us all, at some point; if the tadpole grows strong enough.
In datamined VA I found him saying:
'Never play a player.' and 'Oh you never know, someday you might end up as me?' Neither if which did I recognize from my previous playthroughs. Lastly I believe he will likely say this at some point during your encounter in Moonrise:
'Trading some whelp we've just met for impossible power? It's a fine deal.'

I am really hoping the tags will have more different outcomes. If there even more different tags, that will result into the same dialogue from the origin character more often I will be sad frown

Astarion said: 'Oh gods something terrible happened!' the last time my character died at his hand, waiting to be resurrected. Goddamn twat. It definitely needs to be addressed. Imagine you don't like his character, but are curios what happens - it would genuinely anger you or you would fail 2 rolls in a row you'd really want to kick him out of the party right there for it...

Originally Posted by Callimachus
To tell the truth, while I am a big proponent of romances (especially same sex ones) in video games, and their existence is a major factor in my deciding to buy a game, honestly none of the LIs in the game so far is very appealing to me. Gale is arrogant, condescending and speaks to me like I'm a 6 year old, and not a very smart one at that, Astarion would kill me without batting a lid and then get annoyed if I found that out of line, Wyll, while the most palatable, is just this weird man-child with delusions of grandeur, and if we add the girls to the mix (which I usually don't, but just for completeness sake), Shadowheart is just evil and mean, while Lae'zel seems to combine all the worst of Gale and Shadowheart.
If the rumours (and contaminants) are true, and the rest of the party are indeed Minsc, Karlach, and this Helia woman, I am left with no real romance. Courting Minsc, with his mental condition sounds exploitative and creepy (to me, you do you). And the other two, while unknown for now, are women... So... Yeah... I'm at a loss.

If you like genuinely good characters than yes, you are in trouble selecting right now. I expected Wyll to be that role, but no. You have described him well... I don't even care to get to know his character at the moment.
Posted By: carcra Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 01:15 PM
The theory of Astarion using the MC by seducing them to keep them as an ally makes total sense considering that he's the only companion who you can romance regardless of approval (as far as I know). I also always thought his "dear" and "darling" sounded condescending rather than flirty >>
Posted By: flick40 Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 01:25 PM
I'll just keep romancing my dream sequence character, cuz damn he's hot LOL smile
Posted By: Vamathi Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 02:00 PM
Originally Posted by carcra
The theory of Astarion using the MC by seducing them to keep them as an ally makes total sense considering that he's the only companion who you can romance regardless of approval (as far as I know). I also always thought his "dear" and "darling" sounded condescending rather than flirty >>

In the beginning he will use darling and dear quite condescendingly indeed. Personally it didn't bother me, as I think it fits perfectly for a rogue character.
The approval is a good thing to note for the theory, but it might just be EA shenanigans.

I think entire Astarion romance is just tied to quests at the moment, I had really hard time reproducing some of the conversations, if I progressed with something even though his approval hasn't changed. I mean it doesn't make sense that he would stay there if you take days to get through ACT 1. Shadowheart will seek you out. Maybe Astarion will try to slaughter your party at some point, if you don't take him with you in the beginning.
Not to mention that you can technically get Astarion late, after you already have tad pole powers. If you didn't trigger the vampire reveal yet, you can get the dialogue about Who is Cazador after the dream sequence. He will tell you that he has a vampire master, like you already know that he is vampire, only you don't. It makes no sense.
Originally Posted by flick40
I'll just keep romancing my dream sequence character, cuz damn he's hot LOL smile

Pics or didn't happen, all my dream characters look like potatoes, but that's mostly due to buggy scenes I guess.
Posted By: Tzelanit Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 02:50 PM
I like the romances as they're done now and don't really need them expanded out.
I'd rather see resources put into even more regular interactions and conversations with my companions that comment on what's going on in the moment than play a mini-game where I have to say the right thing to get the approval of a pile of pixels with the hopes that I get an awkward cutscene of plastic bodies tangled together like I'm at the Twister National Championships for Action Figures.
Posted By: Callimachus Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 02:53 PM
I just noticed that my autocorrect changed datamining to contaminants... Weird.
Posted By: Linnea Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 03:51 PM
Astarion is my favorite romance so far and you all have some very interesting thoughts about it!

I know I am concerned about how it all might play out. I am hoping he will genuinely fall in love with the PC. When I played DOS2 I know I was super disappointed in the Red Prince romance and I just don't want that to happen again. :P

Though during the Astarion 'star gazing' scene I think he does look a little smitten with the PC.
Posted By: Nicottia Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 04:07 PM
Originally Posted by Tzelanit
I like the romances as they're done now and don't really need them expanded out.
I'd rather see resources put into even more regular interactions and conversations with my companions that comment on what's going on in the moment than play a mini-game where I have to say the right thing to get the approval of a pile of pixels with the hopes that I get an awkward cutscene of plastic bodies tangled together like I'm at the Twister National Championships for Action Figures.


Err, twister national olympics can happen regardless of romance. laugh

Here's proof:
[Linked Image]



@Vamathi ... please forgive me if I don't massively quote and respond to every point like I did before, a bit too tired for it right now, but overall, I agree, Astarion is a manipulator. All our current companions are, minus Wyll I'd say.

And yes, unpopular opinion, but I find Shadowheart to be quite manipulative too, not on the lvl Astarion is, but she's close enough. Anyhow, after Anders from DA2 and Solas from DAI, I'm hella paranoid of all possible romance options in games. And with popularity of GoT (like I mentioned in previous thread), I really think we're in for some interesting plot twists. Not necessarily regarding Astarion, but the other companions, especially Shadowheart, are on my radar... and Gale. I've come across this entertaining conspiracy theory on reddit about Gale being truly evil. It's an interesting read for sure: https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/jlu5yh/ruminations_whats_your_crazy_theory/
Posted By: azarhal Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 04:53 PM
Originally Posted by Nicottia
And yes, unpopular opinion, but I find Shadowheart to be quite manipulative too, not on the lvl Astarion is, but she's close enough. Anyhow, after Anders from DA2 and Solas from DAI, I'm hella paranoid of all possible romance options in games. And with popularity of GoT (like I mentioned in previous thread), I really think we're in for some interesting plot twists. Not necessarily regarding Astarion, but the other companions, especially Shadowheart, are on my radar... and Gale. I've come across this entertaining conspiracy theory on reddit about Gale being truly evil. It's an interesting read for sure: https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/jlu5yh/ruminations_whats_your_crazy_theory/


Shadowheart is a Sharran, she should be manipulative, it's one of their main traits.

And I don't trust Gale either and that was before reading that Reddit thread. What a sleaze. Good thing I failed to get that weave scene every time, lol.

And lol at Anders and Solas...Morrigan too in DAO, on a smaller scale. In Dragon Age, do not trust the apostate mage.
Posted By: N7Greenfire Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 05:09 PM
I legit think Astarion is probably the most honest LI in right now
Posted By: Nyloth Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 05:22 PM
I didn't like all last companions in Bioware games, Astarion like a breath of fresh air. But I really don't want the characters to become "kinder". Maybe neutral, but not kinder. It destroys their identity. Those pointless arches of redemption again. A good ending with two villains, why not? Why do they have to become kinder? Most often, I play chaotic evil, so I have a lot of choice in this game. Finally, I don't have to play the good soul for the sake of romantic interest.

Arch of redemption - is really what scares me for Astarion and Lae'zel. I don't want to see it or even know it for this two.

Now I'm concerned about the fact that there are scenes with characters only in camp. You may accidentally miss them or get them wrong way. For example, Astarion can tell you about his master even before you know that he is a vampire!

Also, I noticed that if you walk with only one character, they will give their comments on almost every situation. But if you go with 3, you only get 1 random comment. I don't like it, like I'll know what Gale wants, but I won't know what Astarion thinks, just because game won't let him say.

Sad.

edit: I also don't know why someone think Astarion's romance doesn't need approval. I saw he’s reject someone at a tiefling party.
Posted By: Linnea Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 06:13 PM
If you romance him while roleplaying an evil character then I doubt he would have a redemption arc. But if you romance him while roleplaying a good character I don't see why he couldn't have a redemption arc. People aren't static. They can change depending on life events, people they meet, etc.
Posted By: Vamathi Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 06:22 PM
Originally Posted by Nicottia
please forgive me if I don't massively quote and respond to every point like I did before, a bit too tired for it right now, but overall, I agree, Astarion is a manipulator. All our current companions are, minus Wyll I'd say.

And yes, unpopular opinion, but I find Shadowheart to be quite manipulative too, not on the lvl Astarion is, but she's close enough. Anyhow, after Anders from DA2 and Solas from DAI, I'm hella paranoid of all possible romance options in games. And with popularity of GoT (like I mentioned in previous thread), I really think we're in for some interesting plot twists. Not necessarily regarding Astarion, but the other companions, especially Shadowheart, are on my radar... and Gale. I've come across this entertaining conspiracy theory on reddit about Gale being truly evil. It's an interesting read for sure: https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/jlu5yh/ruminations_whats_your_crazy_theory/

I disagree with most of them being manipulative.

I haven't romanced Shadowheart, but I did reveal her secret and had her in my party for several playthroughs and I do not find her manipulative. Very secretive and likely to bacstab you? Propably, but honestly - all of the characters are. And I really like it because it invites some interesting dynamics and so much potential for gazillion playthroughs.

Lae'Zel is just doing what she thinks is best, I feel like especially after 1st tadpole power she is friendlier, although approval might have triggered that as well smile Anyways, she warmed up to me, both of them did. And I don't feel the looming gloom as much as with Astarion.
I've read that theory about Gale! I think it's very likely there's more to him than meets the eye. I must admit I am not very interested in having him around once he ask to eat relics. What if I am feeding some evil god?!

Originally Posted by N7Greenfire
I legit think Astarion is probably the most honest LI in right now

To be honest I thought this up until I went to the hunter without Astarion. I don't entirely believe the reason why the vampire hunter is after him specifically (discussed it somewhere above in spoilers). My main reason is that the hunter doesn't know how he looks, which seems like a major oversight someone as scheming as Cazador sounds.
If he is truthful about that, than I believe that Astarion is indeed the most honest LI. If he is lying about it, than I am really curious what the reason could be.

There is so many questions, as to how the story will develop and it's also core to understanding the possibilities of him backstabbing you... Because of how power hungry and broken/damaged Astarion is, he shouldn't be completely trusted.
If the tadpole stays in our head the entire time in BG3, than I trust him, mostly. This would solve the issue of Astarion leaving the party in case you help him with his quest - whatever that is. Without a tadpole and being true vampire. I don't see why he would stick with you, as he would likely burn in the sunlight.

He is likely to manipulate you to help him kill Cazador and once he achieved both goals, he is free. He mentions maybe having his own coven in one of the dialogues I believe. He also talks about how it never happens, that a vampire shares in his power with a vampire spawn. I believe he is honest with both of these as his goals.
If we can manage to control the tadpole powers and unless there is some sudden power shift and he feels like he is on the losing side I think we are all good.

Anyways the true bad ending to Astarion romance, would be losing him from your party too soon.

Originally Posted by Nyloth
edit: I also don't know why someone think Astarion's romance doesn't need approval. I saw he’s reject someone at a tiefling party.

Pretty sure, if you go ahead and tease him a little it doesn't matter. I definitely romanced him on neutral and mid approval.

Originally Posted by Linnea
If you romance him while roleplaying an evil character then I doubt he would have a redemption arc. But if you romance him while roleplaying a good character I don't see why he couldn't have a redemption arc. People aren't static. They can change depending on life events, people they meet, etc.

My idea of a 'redemption' ark for Astarion is bringing in his morally damaged character to do the right thing... If you can achieve the good ending together, no matter what way you got there. It's still good, only chaotic good smile
Astarion's internal dialogue clearly says he is proud if he party sides with the dark forces vs. this.
It is clear what his choice would be...
Posted By: Kraydenvar Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 06:38 PM
I'm so far interested in the Shadowheart, Astarion and Laezel and possibly Minthara.
Shadowheart provides that challenge to open up a cagey character type path, even if a cliche choice. Plus the VA does a good job at portraying a transparent coyness used as a defense mechanism.

Astarion, I love. He uses flirtations and words as a defense and tool, but is also just about getting as much amusement out of situations as he can (can relate)-We were definitely thinking the same thing about the resolution of the hag quest and getting that wand. But he also suffers from the doubt/anxiety of Cazador's reach.

Laezel, honestly just because its funny the lines you get from her when you romance her and I am curious where that goes and the dynamics of it playing out.

Minthara, There is not a lot interesting about her yet in EA. If you lay with her after taking the goblin side of the grove assault there is an option to try to look into her mind and learn more about her, possible character development in that area when/if she is encountered later is of interest.

Gale, charming words but his plight regarding his background is less intriguing to me.
Wyll, I will help him get his demon lady back, but possibility of heartfelt discussions about caring for a demon or the nature of the allure of power or whatever he might entail after his wall of bravado is brought down kinda not very interesting.
Posted By: Tzelanit Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 06:40 PM
Originally Posted by Nicottia
Originally Posted by Tzelanit
I like the romances as they're done now and don't really need them expanded out.
I'd rather see resources put into even more regular interactions and conversations with my companions that comment on what's going on in the moment than play a mini-game where I have to say the right thing to get the approval of a pile of pixels with the hopes that I get an awkward cutscene of plastic bodies tangled together like I'm at the Twister National Championships for Action Figures.


Err, twister national olympics can happen regardless of romance. laugh

Here's proof:
[Linked Image]


Wow, nightmare fuel. Necks don't work that way. eek
Posted By: Kraydenvar Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 07:16 PM
Originally Posted by Tzelanit
Originally Posted by Nicottia
Originally Posted by Tzelanit
I like the romances as they're done now and don't really need them expanded out.
I'd rather see resources put into even more regular interactions and conversations with my companions that comment on what's going on in the moment than play a mini-game where I have to say the right thing to get the approval of a pile of pixels with the hopes that I get an awkward cutscene of plastic bodies tangled together like I'm at the Twister National Championships for Action Figures.


Err, twister national olympics can happen regardless of romance. laugh

Here's proof:
[Linked Image]


Wow, nightmare fuel. Necks don't work that way. eek

Ceremorphis already started to give that invertibrate flexibility
Posted By: Nyloth Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 07:50 PM
Originally Posted by Linnea
If you romance him while roleplaying an evil character then I doubt he would have a redemption arc. But if you romance him while roleplaying a good character I don't see why he couldn't have a redemption arc. People aren't static. They can change depending on life events, people they meet, etc.


At least because you need to do evil things to get Astarion's approval. If you do what he doesn't like (good actions), you won't get approval and you won't have romance... So how he will change if you need to do evil actions?
So if he can change in other way, like ‘not approved’ way, it’s stupid. Cuz Wyll, for example, doesn't get evil, he just walks away from you if he don’t like your choice. This is logical.


Originally Posted by Vamathi
Pretty sure, if you go ahead and tease him a little it doesn't matter. I definitely romanced him on neutral and mid approval.



And it's still something. You still need to do something for it. My opinion, Astarion should not approve of good choice. He literally approves of kicking squirrels and killing anyone lol. So if you choose a good option and he makes that pained voice, it should cause him to disapprove of your choice. This is what happens with characters, well maybe not Gale, he only thinks about magic food. And I don't see why it should be any different with Astarion. Like I said, Yes, maybe you can make him neutral. But kind? ... meh...

Also happy ending is not equal to a "good" ending, if you know what I mean...

edit: I mean imagine that you are playing as evil character and good character changes to the evil side (this is the reverse example). I've never seen this before... It's not fair that ppl always trying change evil characters, but this never happens with good characters.

Posted By: Arideya Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 08:02 PM
Originally Posted by Nyloth
Originally Posted by Linnea
If you romance him while roleplaying an evil character then I doubt he would have a redemption arc. But if you romance him while roleplaying a good character I don't see why he couldn't have a redemption arc. People aren't static. They can change depending on life events, people they meet, etc.


At least because you need to do evil things to get Astarion's approval. If you do what he doesn't like (good actions), you won't get approval and you won't have romance... So how he will change if you need to do evil actions?
So if he can change in other way, like ‘not approved’ way, it’s stupid. Cuz Wyll, for example, doesn't get evil, he just walks away from you if he don’t like your choice. This is logical.


Originally Posted by Vamathi
Pretty sure, if you go ahead and tease him a little it doesn't matter. I definitely romanced him on neutral and mid approval.



And it's still something. You still need to do something for it. My opinion, Astarion should not approve of good choice. He literally approves of kicking squirrels and killing anyone lol. So if you choose a good option and he makes that pained voice, it should cause him to disapprove of your choice. This is what happens with characters, well maybe not Gale, he only thinks about magic food. And I don't see why it should be any different with Astarion. Like I said, Yes, maybe you can make him neutral. But kind? ... meh...

Also happy ending is not equal to a "good" ending, if you know what I mean...



I generally like evil characters, or characters that don't normally go along with what the main character does and do not get a "redemption" arc. I know Neverwinter Nights 2 was hugely unfinished, but I loved Bishop's character for this reason. He was so unapologetically evil and messed up that no matter what you did he'd still betray you. And I thought all those mods giving him redemption and a happily ever after did not do him justice, turning a cool character into a misunderstood woobie in need of saving. That said Astarion seems different to me. Sure, he is evil and approves of some evil actions, but does not seem to be completely far gone. I might be wrong though... It would be interesting to see. I don't necessarily want a redemption arc for him but more an ability to coexist without falling into an evil for the lulz route.

Edit: @OP thanks so much for creating this thread. <3 Make love not war grin
Posted By: Bernkastel Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 08:09 PM
In my opinion a redemption arc would fit depending on his past. As it was not full revealed yet, and things can be rewritten, it's hard to come to a conclusion. I would prefer at least to be optional cuz I like some bad boy romance devil (not irl ofc)

edit: Arideya posted my thoughts better than me, I totally agree grin
Bishop <3
Posted By: Nicottia Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 08:31 PM
Originally Posted by Vamathi

I disagree with most of them being manipulative.

I haven't romanced Shadowheart, but I did reveal her secret and had her in my party for several playthroughs and I do not find her manipulative. Very secretive and likely to bacstab you? Propably, but honestly - all of the characters are. And I really like it because it invites some interesting dynamics and so much potential for gazillion playthroughs.

Lae'Zel is just doing what she thinks is best, I feel like especially after 1st tadpole power she is friendlier, although approval might have triggered that as well smile Anyways, she warmed up to me, both of them did. And I don't feel the looming gloom as much as with Astarion.
I've read that theory about Gale! I think it's very likely there's more to him than meets the eye. I must admit I am not very interested in having him around once he ask to eat relics. What if I am feeding some evil god?!


Alright, let me unpack this: everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Now let me explain why I think they all are manipulative, aside from Wyll.

Lae'zel - when she's stuck in that cage, she literally makes the PC believe that she has a cure to the tadpole problem. Well, I wasn't shocked when it came out she was bluffing. Second strike is after meeting Zorru, you have to pass an insight check 'for signs of deceit' if you pass it, she's legit lying and having doubts about the creche, you can use the tadpole on her to peer even further beyond her barriers. Which again, I did out of curiosity, but reloaded immediately after. She knows deep inside that the purification is most likely bogus and will end up in entire groups' death, but she's githyanki, she's been legit brainwashed into believing things like: purification will save you, she's still trying to manipulate you into getting her way, regardless how you look at it. It doesn't make her any worse of a character.

Shadowheart - yes, sure, there are multiple points in the game where you can confront her about her being a Sharran, but her admitting that (under pressure no less) doesn't mean she's not manipulative. Her mere hatred of Lae'zel and constant remarks 'you shouldn't take her with us', 'you shouldn't have freed her' etc could've been written in 'manipulation manual for dummies 101'. Manipulative people can be nice btw. Again, it's not about characters warming up to you, it's about the way they act and react to different situations. And no, I haven't romanced Shadow either, not planning to. Basically what @azarhal wrote:

Originally Posted by azarhal

Shadowheart is a Sharran, she should be manipulative, it's one of their main traits.


Shadowheart might be the nicest, most kind Sharran (what is a contradiction in itself) on the face of Faerun, but it doesn't make her any less manipulative. For all we know she could be using us to smuggle that 'mysterious artifact' to Baldur's Gate undetected, back to her Sharran priests and who knows what kind of catastrophe it could cause?

Gale - I think his topic is exhausted in that reddit link I posted before. :P

Astarion - also manipulative as heck, he does his best to gain PCs trust to basically manipulate the main char into becoming his little mobile blood supply, shall I say more? Still, he's my favorite of 'em all, mostly because of these little moments when he breaks out of character, when he's absolutely terrified of Cazador's reach, so much so he temporarily drops the mental walls to put them back up again.

Wyll - he's a special case. He's clearly conflicted about the deal he made with Mizora, cause he knows deep inside that his hero 'shitck' is a lie, he's been lying to himself worst of all. He knows if it wasn't for his pact, he'd be dead, forgotten and he damn well knows he would most likely accomplish nothing without his warlock powers. Of the entire cast, he does lie and dodge the truth the most, but he's not manipulative, but there is potential... to let him succumb to corruption or fight it. It's quite poetic really.


Originally Posted by Vamathi

Originally Posted by N7Greenfire
I legit think Astarion is probably the most honest LI in right now

To be honest I thought this up until I went to the hunter without Astarion. I don't entirely believe the reason why the vampire hunter is after him specifically (discussed it somewhere above in spoilers). My main reason is that the hunter doesn't know how he looks, which seems like a major oversight someone as scheming as Cazador sounds.
If he is truthful about that, than I believe that Astarion is indeed the most honest LI. If he is lying about it, than I am really curious what the reason could be.


I think you are fixated on the hunter a bit too much. wink Like I wrote earlier/in the other topic - the reason for the vampire hunter being there is simple. Cazador wants Astarion back. Why? Well, think about IRL history - what happened to runaway slaves/indentured servants? Do you really think their 'owners' would just let them go and not hunt them down to make an example out of them?

Also, if you romance Astarion with a tiefling, after the night spent together you can comment on his big scar 'poem' being written in infernal. Now why would Cazador write anything in infernal? Most likely in hopes of owning Astarion's soul? A soul transfer spell a'la what Irenicus had done to Gorion's ward in BG2 that made the slayer emerge? Be my guest at the guessing game behind the meaning of Astarion's infernal big bad scar. We simply don't know yet.

And of course the hunter knows only a vague description of Astarion, I have a suspicion that the hunter was setup to fail by Cazador. The first one was just a warning. I'm pretty sure once we meet more hunters going after Astarion - they'll actually mean business, be better prepared.

Originally Posted by Vamathi

There is so many questions, as to how the story will develop and it's also core to understanding the possibilities of him backstabbing you... Because of how power hungry and broken/damaged Astarion is, he shouldn't be completely trusted.
If the tadpole stays in our head the entire time in BG3, than I trust him, mostly. This would solve the issue of Astarion leaving the party in case you help him with his quest - whatever that is. Without a tadpole and being true vampire. I don't see why he would stick with you, as he would likely burn in the sunlight.

He is likely to manipulate you to help him kill Cazador and once he achieved both goals, he is free. He mentions maybe having his own coven in one of the dialogues I believe. He also talks about how it never happens, that a vampire shares in his power with a vampire spawn. I believe he is honest with both of these as his goals.
If we can manage to control the tadpole powers and unless there is some sudden power shift and he feels like he is on the losing side I think we are all good.


Astarion doesn't say he wants his own coven, he merely explains why a vampire wouldn't give up a slave to become his competitor, he even says he doesn't care about becoming a true vampire, all he cares about is Cazador painfully dying.. And when he says that it's one of these moments when his voice actor's delivery is amazing, his voice even slightly cracks. What makes me believe that voice delivery was deliberate and that he actually meant that. On top of that, in previous topic I mentioned that there are magical ways for vampires to be able to walk in sunlight. Again, look up Hexxat from BG2EE. She has a magical cloak, if you don't wear it during daylight, she slowly burns to death (similar to Astarion taking acid damage in running water). So who's to say that the PC and Astarion won't find a way to make him walk in daylight after the tadpole is dealt with?

And I highly doubt, if treated kindly, that Astarion will flip a traitor switch and decide to betray us for funzies. At least if we follow the logic of - for every action there is a reaction. But if you provoke a hornets nest, you're likely to get stung. wink

But again, it's all speculation anyway. Things might get rewritten or slightly/completely changed.
Posted By: N7Greenfire Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 08:34 PM
Yeah Astarion strait up says the first one was a message
Posted By: Vamathi Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 08:35 PM
Originally Posted by Nyloth
And it's still something. You still need to do something for it. My opinion, Astarion should not approve of good choice. He literally approves of kicking squirrels and killing anyone lol. So if you choose a good option and he makes that pained voice, it should cause him to disapprove of your choice. This is what happens with characters, well maybe not Gale, he only thinks about magic food. And I don't see why it should be any different with Astarion. Like I said, Yes, maybe you can make him neutral. But kind? ... meh...

Also happy ending is not equal to a "good" ending, if you know what I mean...

edit: I mean imagine that you are playing as evil character and good character changes to the evil side (this is the reverse example). I've never seen this before... It's not fair that ppl always trying change evil characters, but this never happens with good characters.

I feel like If we took Astarion's word at face value, he would never share his power and freedom once he gets it. That dialogue line says, that Astarion will be willing to do it (whatever it is). Maybe you even lock-in the loyalty of your party at that point (I mean Larian mostly said this, but I am not sure how much it can be taken as in they would never betray you), maybe he will not want to side with the hero path, if our approval is below certain point. The nature of tadpole and who tampered with it might give him enough of a reason to try and learn more about it and use it's power. But yes, I see him ditching on the player character if we somehow get rid of the tadpole before resolving the main quest smile

As I mentioned in one of the previous posts - I believe that even character like him could go through with the 'hero' path, even if the path that gets us there is very grey. I personally don't want him to change his opinions or be more kind. I like that he is snarky, nasty, kinky and all over the place.
As for the good ending or potential cure to vampirism: This is an idea that sprouted from Astarion enjoying the sun. Nothing else.
If there is some clash of gods though - and you do decide to side with the good guys - maybe there would be more of a reason for him wanting to reverse is, have his soul back, especially if the tadpole is gone and he would miss the sun too much including the player character smile I think there are doable ways to make 'evil' characters make choices they wouldn't.
Posted By: OneManArmy Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 09:01 PM
Shadow Heart looks like a cute teen goth, she's better than Josephine and Cassandra from the Inquisition combined. Making her a mysterious and a feminine half-elf was a good decision. Her romance is very sincere and kind, PG13, but for now. In the future, she will reveal herself as a character even more interesting. For good and evil heroes who like the classic girl archetype.

Laezel is more brutal and dominant, evil, but an obvious option for good characters who like Strong Woman. It's not bad, but a little out of my taste. Maybe I'll leave it for the third playthrough of the game in release.

Minthara is the perfect Strong Woman for an evil hero, she has everything that people love in drow - my top 1. Very charming bitch, I love her and her dominance - especially considering the fact that I play as a male drow wizard, I am ready to do anything what will she say. Nevertheless, I hope she will also have the opportunity to show herself in some moments weak and in need of our protection in the future when she will really trust us and consider us her friend. I also expect her to act of her own accord and not as a mind flayer puppet, and that there will be an opportunity for a happy ending.

Astarion is a great option for an evil female character, as well as for bisexuals. Although, he's so charming that some good guys will romance him. I'm not surprised that he is the leader in the amount of fan art among female fans.

Gail is a standard, easy option for a good female character without much kink. This explains its popularity.

Will is just a misunderstanding, I don't understand why he is needed. I think it will be revealed later, when we meet Mizora, it's too early to say anything about it. But if he has a bad demon girlfriend, why is he so "good"?

There is also Karlach and some halfling-werewolf girl who are going to add, but this is trash as for me, I don't care if they are in release or not. In my party they will be at most companions, if I decide to take them at all.
Now my party looks like Laezel, Astarion, Shadow Heart, I would replace one of them (most likely Shadow Heart) with Minthara if she is still added as a companion.
This line-up suits me completely and I don't need other heroes.

Minsc already has the love of his life, this is the space hamster Boo, I can't say anything about him - let the girls say. I suppose it will be a popular compion, but not a popular romance.
Posted By: pinklily Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 10:33 PM
Originally Posted by Vamathi
Originally Posted by Nyloth
And it's still something. You still need to do something for it. My opinion, Astarion should not approve of good choice. He literally approves of kicking squirrels and killing anyone lol. So if you choose a good option and he makes that pained voice, it should cause him to disapprove of your choice. This is what happens with characters, well maybe not Gale, he only thinks about magic food. And I don't see why it should be any different with Astarion. Like I said, Yes, maybe you can make him neutral. But kind? ... meh...

Also happy ending is not equal to a "good" ending, if you know what I mean...

edit: I mean imagine that you are playing as evil character and good character changes to the evil side (this is the reverse example). I've never seen this before... It's not fair that ppl always trying change evil characters, but this never happens with good characters.

I feel like If we took Astarion's word at face value, he would never share his power and freedom once he gets it. That dialogue line says, that Astarion will be willing to do it (whatever it is). Maybe you even lock-in the loyalty of your party at that point (I mean Larian mostly said this, but I am not sure how much it can be taken as in they would never betray you), maybe he will not want to side with the hero path, if our approval is below certain point. The nature of tadpole and who tampered with it might give him enough of a reason to try and learn more about it and use it's power. But yes, I see him ditching on the player character if we somehow get rid of the tadpole before resolving the main quest smile

As I mentioned in one of the previous posts - I believe that even character like him could go through with the 'hero' path, even if the path that gets us there is very grey. I personally don't want him to change his opinions or be more kind. I like that he is snarky, nasty, kinky and all over the place.
As for the good ending or potential cure to vampirism: This is an idea that sprouted from Astarion enjoying the sun. Nothing else.
If there is some clash of gods though - and you do decide to side with the good guys - maybe there would be more of a reason for him wanting to reverse is, have his soul back, especially if the tadpole is gone and he would miss the sun too much including the player character smile I think there are doable ways to make 'evil' characters make choices they wouldn't.


Yeah, when he talks about becoming a vampire lord it clearly sounds like something he wants. Like he hates Cazador and other vampire lords because of what Cazador has done to him, and other vampire lords because of their overall shitty power hunger. But if he joined the club he would be no different--if nothing else out of a sort of payback. I think our boy would be a vindictive bitch lol. I could see him becoming a vampire lord being a potential bad ending for the MC if he made the MC a vampire spawn. Alternatively, killing Cazador without him making an Astarion a vampire lord could potentially be a good ending for him. Especially if it leads to the resurrection cure.

I don't think Astarion would leave the player once the tadpole was removed because of the stargazing scene. He mentions wanting to continue traveling with the mc after its extraction because the mc is a usefull ally. I think he'd want to keep the mc around until Cazador is taken care of. Even though he thinks mc would pose no real threat against Cazador, having help would still improve Astarion's chances against him.

Originally Posted by Arideya
I generally like evil characters, or characters that don't normally go along with what the main character does and do not get a "redemption" arc. I know Neverwinter Nights 2 was hugely unfinished, but I loved Bishop's character for this reason. He was so unapologetically evil and messed up that no matter what you did he'd still betray you. And I thought all those mods giving him redemption and a happily ever after did not do him justice, turning a cool character into a misunderstood woobie in need of saving. That said Astarion seems different to me. Sure, he is evil and approves of some evil actions, but does not seem to be completely far gone. I might be wrong though... It would be interesting to see. I don't necessarily want a redemption arc for him but more an ability to coexist without falling into an evil for the lulz route.

Edit: @OP thanks so much for creating this thread. <3 Make love not war grin



Regarding redemption arcs and Astarion's approval, I agree that I wouldn't want to see his character fundamentally changed. But I think it's natural for a character to be pulled over one alignment based on player influence. So an evil character could become neutral but never good and vice versa. But the player can already get high approval from Astarion without being evil, so this gives me hope.

x3 and np! I'm happy to have a dedicated space to discuss this stuff. It gives me life.
Posted By: Arideya Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 10:43 PM
Wait, I just realized something... OP are you the same pinklily that commented on my Tiefling de-wrinkler Nexus mod?
Posted By: pinklily Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 10:53 PM
Originally Posted by Arideya
Wait, I just realized something... OP are you the same pinklily that commented on my Tiefling de-wrinkler Nexus mod?


xD That I am. Hello, my friend.
Posted By: Vamathi Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 11:07 PM
@Nicottia;;
I think I might rethink some of the characters after your insights,but personally I think it also comes down to dialogue choices you pick. I simply didn't feel manipulated to do anything by any of them.

I will dissect Astarion a bit more, because a couple of things just clicked for my theory smile
My fixation on the hunter might seem silly - of course, Astarion might be saying the truth, the whole point is, it's his word against hunter's and there seems to be some wiggle room potential for plot twist.
Of course, at the moment it's purely speculation. I don't think there is any real proof that Astarion lies to you right now.

Personally I think he is much older, than he says he is and he might even be a greater vampire /wiki.
Hmm a kiss by succubus? Wonder if that's where the seal/Cazador's Poem came from...
Vampire spawn in my eyes, was always more monstrous than vampire and this is why Gandrel doesn't recognize him at all, it's because he changed his form to someone else. Astarion is someone else entirely imho.

There is an line in game, that is propably very missable by most (especially simps) - for reference and larian lore tidbit about him.
Now isn't that interesting? I haven't tested if he possibly replies differently to different race of MC (mine was half-elf), but regardless - the MC should know elfs live pretty long. If he is so sure that he is so ancient, could it be, that he might be older?
And the wording from Larian: 'The mind flayer parasite freed him from his bonds', sounds like it already happened.

Yes, I think Astarion's voice acting is deliberate, to manipulate you laugh
Astarion on vampires being power-hungry and cappable of creating his own coven

Originally Posted by Arideya
Wait, I just realized something... OP are you the same pinklily that commented on my Tiefling de-wrinkler Nexus mod?

Thanks for that one! Also downloaded smile
Posted By: Tarlonniel Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 11:33 PM
I signed up to add my vote for an Astarion redemption path - not that I expect him to wake up chaotic good one morning, or any morning, but a shift into neutral territory seems doable. I'd also like to be able to reverse his vampirism, but so far he hasn't shown the slightest inclination toward being un-undead, so that seems like more of a stretch.

Gale is the only other character who's caught my interest so far and he's... taken? Sort of? In a weird place relationship-wise, at least, and at times (as has been pointed out) at least as manipulative as Astarion, so I'm not sure about the guy.
Posted By: Arideya Re: Romances of Faerun - 01/11/20 11:40 PM
Originally Posted by pinklily


xD That I am. Hello, my friend.


Heyyy!! <3 Haha this is awesome! I guess all of us hang out in the same places :3


Originally Posted by Vamathi

Thanks for that one! Also downloaded smile



Hey any time! Glad you like it smile I was thinking of adding more stuff, but there is not much to do. All the textures and models that were released for the EA look so incredibly beautiful and realistic.


Originally Posted by Vamathi


There is an line in game, that is propably very missable by most (especially simps) - for reference and larian lore tidbit about him.
Now isn't that interesting? I haven't tested if he possibly replies differently to different race of MC (mine was half-elf), but regardless - the MC should know elfs live pretty long. If he is so sure that he is so ancient, could it be, that he might be older?
And the wording from Larian: 'The mind flayer parasite freed him from his bonds', sounds like it already happened.



My main is a Tiefling and its the same line. I just assumed your character is supposed to be relatively young? And I think Astarion is supposed to be 200 or so? At least that's the number I've seen somewhere.
By the "bonds" I've always assumed it was fear of sunlight and entering houses without invitation. He still gets hurt by running water so...
Posted By: Linnea Re: Romances of Faerun - 02/11/20 12:04 AM
Originally Posted by Nyloth
Originally Posted by Linnea
If you romance him while roleplaying an evil character then I doubt he would have a redemption arc. But if you romance him while roleplaying a good character I don't see why he couldn't have a redemption arc. People aren't static. They can change depending on life events, people they meet, etc.


At least because you need to do evil things to get Astarion's approval. If you do what he doesn't like (good actions), you won't get approval and you won't have romance... So how he will change if you need to do evil actions?
So if he can change in other way, like ‘not approved’ way, it’s stupid. Cuz Wyll, for example, doesn't get evil, he just walks away from you if he don’t like your choice. This is logical.


Originally Posted by Vamathi
Pretty sure, if you go ahead and tease him a little it doesn't matter. I definitely romanced him on neutral and mid approval.



And it's still something. You still need to do something for it. My opinion, Astarion should not approve of good choice. He literally approves of kicking squirrels and killing anyone lol. So if you choose a good option and he makes that pained voice, it should cause him to disapprove of your choice. This is what happens with characters, well maybe not Gale, he only thinks about magic food. And I don't see why it should be any different with Astarion. Like I said, Yes, maybe you can make him neutral. But kind? ... meh...

Also happy ending is not equal to a "good" ending, if you know what I mean...

edit: I mean imagine that you are playing as evil character and good character changes to the evil side (this is the reverse example). I've never seen this before... It's not fair that ppl always trying change evil characters, but this never happens with good characters.




I am not expecting a potential redemption arc to suddenly turn him into a lawful good saint. Just a little less...murder-happy?

However in the end 'it is what it is' and I can hope for a good ending for Astarion and my PC, but if it ends in heartbreak I will be fine. (I romance Solas in Dragon Age Inquisition so I know all about that lol)
Posted By: Vamathi Re: Romances of Faerun - 02/11/20 12:19 AM
Originally Posted by Arideya
My main is a Tiefling and its the same line. I just assumed your character is supposed to be relatively young? And I think Astarion is supposed to be 200 or so? At least that's the number I've seen somewhere.
By the "bonds" I've always assumed it was fear of sunlight and entering houses without invitation. He still gets hurt by running water so...

Good to know, that it's the same for tieflings. I honestly don't know, technically he doesn't say how old he is, only how long he has been a vampire, at least according to him.
Larian description wouldn't be accurate, if he was indeed a greater vampire anyways smile
I will be going through the Lords of Darkness pdf that mentions the greater vampire, maybe I will dig out some potential info, but I am probably going to fall asleep after that, before I look like a vampire myself.

This has been me the entire weekend:
[Linked Image]
Posted By: Tarlonniel Re: Romances of Faerun - 02/11/20 12:29 AM
Originally Posted by Linnea
(I romance Solas in Dragon Age Inquisition so I know all about that lol)


I, uh, deleted all my Lavellan saves after Trespasser, and will not be buying the next game. Wish I had more of your tolerance. wink

Crossing my fingers that Astarion ends up closer to Zevran.
Posted By: Nicottia Re: Romances of Faerun - 02/11/20 01:10 AM
@Vamathi those theories of yours are quite interesting and entertaining. Oh and about Astarion's age - he's a high elf, they live long lives, average lifespan being 750 years. Now he has gray hair, lore wise it's been mentioned many times that elves eternally stay at an adult stage, until they are close to dying of old age, so it's not uncommon for an elf to retain their natural hair color until they are 600 I guess? 700 maybe? I mention this because Astarion's hair and eyebrows are gray, so at the moment of his death, he must've been quite old. For sure more than 500 years old. As to why he has no wrinkles? It could be an illusion, or elves aging differently could be to blame, although, in FR I haven't seen many references to super ancient wrinkled elves. I'm not an expert on elven D&D lore, but I guess I know slightly more than your average person, since I have a huge obsession with elves in games. If I am given a race choice, I will always go elf. In D&D I'm pretty much split between elves and drow (I wonder why in BG3 drow aren't an elven subrace, I blame Larian's tag system).

Anyway, let's just assume Astarion was 500 when he died, add 200 years he claims to have spent being Cazador's slave boy, that would make him at least 700 yr old, possibly older... But that line about PC's ancestor's learning to crawl is... interesting. I loaded a super early save and I got the same scenario to pop up... as a drow.

[Linked Image]


I don't think races are at all implemented in this line. I mean, there are a few things that raise my brow... but this one is kinda funny. Oh, that would make him older than Ao, if we are supposed to take this line seriously. LMAO

But in all seriousness, I think that Larian, just like Bioware, assumed people would play human (to later scorn the vault dweller Tav), so in that case it would make sense. Also Astarion's biting scene? Makes 0 sense for elven characters, since they don't sleep, they trance. Good luck sneaking up on an elf in trance to suck their blood... it could be possible, but eeeh. Oh another inconsistency in the lore: from the mods enabling origin characters as mains, you can see that Cazador is an elf (has extra long ears)... with a beard (IMPOSSIBRU). So unless he's some sort of https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Fey%27ri (you might have to copy the link and paste it in your browser, for some reason the name fey'ri causes the link to break), what could explain his proficiency in infernal... but that gives me DOS2 Malady vibes, not gonna lie.

Oh and I did read that infernal to latin to english translation of Cazador's poem a while ago, heck, even my little theory on possible soul transfer is buried deep in the comment section of that reddit post. wink

Well, I'm not deluded into thinking that Astarion is an honorable paladin in shining armor. I know he's a master manipulator. And true, his voice acting being deliberate crossed my mind, altho, there has to be some seed of truth buried within. I mean, come full release first thing I'm gonna do is see the entire game through romancing Astarion, slaying Cazador (I wonder how that will play out really, if there is going to be a way to get Astarion a sip of his blood or will he remain an overpowered vamp spawn forever or will there be other solutions to his vampirism), gonna deny the tadpole and see if it can't be turned against itself. I am curious what type of ending is there in store for all of us, whatever paths we take. I really hope choices will have consequences.

Also, I wouldn't put much stock in Larian's old PR material, since er, retcons happen, plans change.
Posted By: N7Greenfire Re: Romances of Faerun - 02/11/20 01:46 AM
Originally Posted by Nicottia
@Vamathi those theories of yours are quite interesting and entertaining. Oh and about Astarion's age - he's a high elf, they live long lives, average lifespan being 750 years. Now he has gray hair, lore wise it's been mentioned many times that elves eternally stay at an adult stage, until they are close to dying of old age, so it's not uncommon for an elf to retain their natural hair color until they are 600 I guess? 700 maybe? I mention this because Astarion's hair and eyebrows are gray, so at the moment of his death, he must've been quite old. For sure more than 500 years old. As to why he has no wrinkles? It could be an illusion, or elves aging differently could be to blame, although, in FR I haven't seen many references to super ancient wrinkled elves. I'm not an expert on elven D&D lore, but I guess I know slightly more than your average person, since I have a huge obsession with elves in games. If I am given a race choice, I will always go elf. In D&D I'm pretty much split between elves and drow (I wonder why in BG3 drow aren't an elven subrace, I blame Larian's tag system).

Anyway, let's just assume Astarion was 500 when he died, add 200 years he claims to have spent being Cazador's slave boy, that would make him at least 700 yr old, possibly older... But that line about PC's ancestor's learning to crawl is... interesting. I loaded a super early save and I got the same scenario to pop up... as a drow.

[Linked Image]


I don't think races are at all implemented in this line. I mean, there are a few things that raise my brow... but this one is kinda funny. Oh, that would make him older than Ao, if we are supposed to take this line seriously. LMAO

But in all seriousness, I think that Larian, just like Bioware, assumed people would play human (to later scorn the vault dweller Tav), so in that case it would make sense. Also Astarion's biting scene? Makes 0 sense for elven characters, since they don't sleep, they trance. Good luck sneaking up on an elf in trance to suck their blood... it could be possible, but eeeh. Oh another inconsistency in the lore: from the mods enabling origin characters as mains, you can see that Cazador is an elf (has extra long ears)... with a beard (IMPOSSIBRU). So unless he's some sort of https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Fey%27ri (you might have to copy the link and paste it in your browser, for some reason the name fey'ri causes the link to break), what could explain his proficiency in infernal... but that gives me DOS2 Malady vibes, not gonna lie.

Oh and I did read that infernal to latin to english translation of Cazador's poem a while ago, heck, even my little theory on possible soul transfer is buried deep in the comment section of that reddit post. wink

Well, I'm not deluded into thinking that Astarion is an honorable paladin in shining armor. I know he's a master manipulator. And true, his voice acting being deliberate crossed my mind, altho, there has to be some seed of truth buried within. I mean, come full release first thing I'm gonna do is see the entire game through romancing Astarion, slaying Cazador (I wonder how that will play out really, if there is going to be a way to get Astarion a sip of his blood or will he remain an overpowered vamp spawn forever or will there be other solutions to his vampirism), gonna deny the tadpole and see if it can't be turned against itself. I am curious what type of ending is there in store for all of us, whatever paths we take. I really hope choices will have consequences.

Also, I wouldn't put much stock in Larian's old PR material, since er, retcons happen, plans change.


I think he means more like grandparents or the like,
Posted By: pinklily Re: Romances of Faerun - 02/11/20 02:31 AM
Originally Posted by Linnea
Originally Posted by Nyloth
Originally Posted by Linnea
If you romance him while roleplaying an evil character then I doubt he would have a redemption arc. But if you romance him while roleplaying a good character I don't see why he couldn't have a redemption arc. People aren't static. They can change depending on life events, people they meet, etc.


At least because you need to do evil things to get Astarion's approval. If you do what he doesn't like (good actions), you won't get approval and you won't have romance... So how he will change if you need to do evil actions?
So if he can change in other way, like ‘not approved’ way, it’s stupid. Cuz Wyll, for example, doesn't get evil, he just walks away from you if he don’t like your choice. This is logical.


Originally Posted by Vamathi
Pretty sure, if you go ahead and tease him a little it doesn't matter. I definitely romanced him on neutral and mid approval.



And it's still something. You still need to do something for it. My opinion, Astarion should not approve of good choice. He literally approves of kicking squirrels and killing anyone lol. So if you choose a good option and he makes that pained voice, it should cause him to disapprove of your choice. This is what happens with characters, well maybe not Gale, he only thinks about magic food. And I don't see why it should be any different with Astarion. Like I said, Yes, maybe you can make him neutral. But kind? ... meh...

Also happy ending is not equal to a "good" ending, if you know what I mean...

edit: I mean imagine that you are playing as evil character and good character changes to the evil side (this is the reverse example). I've never seen this before... It's not fair that ppl always trying change evil characters, but this never happens with good characters.




I am not expecting a potential redemption arc to suddenly turn him into a lawful good saint. Just a little less...murder-happy?

However in the end 'it is what it is' and I can hope for a good ending for Astarion and my PC, but if it ends in heartbreak I will be fine. (I romance Solas in Dragon Age Inquisition so I know all about that lol)



That's pretty much what I'm expecting/hoping for too. I find his comment on the exchange of lives during the tiefling party interesting. He finds joy in killing and doesn't seem to value any individual life above another (aside from his own.) I've thought about this philosophy a lot because, as good characters, we tend to decide one group of people has more of a right to live than another without giving much thought to the group that's deemed 'bad.' Astarion's approach is truly zero-sum which is fairly in line with a neutral evil character. Ofc, some of his actions are more chaotic evil. It makes sense that at the point we meet him, he values all life equally low since lives were completely disposable under Cazador. His joy in killing and the torture of others could stem from Stockholm syndrome as a survival mechanism, where seeing these things inflicted on others meant his own safety. Until we know more about what he was like before he was turned, it's possible that a lot of his interactions and approval ratings may stem from how he survived and maintained a degree of sanity through Cazador's abuse. I think he could be pulled more toward true neutral if he could gain an overall greater appreciation for life and if MC doesn't treat him as a monster. Basically, I think this guy really needs a friend lol

I'm really hoping they don't go with unavoidable tragedy. I wanted to romance Solas but never could because my heart just can't take it. I've had enough tragedy in my real life. I want my characters to have at least happyish endings.
Posted By: Vamathi Re: Romances of Faerun - 02/11/20 10:53 AM
I went throught the old Lords of the Darkness module and here are some notable finds/connections; more evidence for Astarion potentially being a greater vampire, or at least a lesser vampire, not a vampire spawn;
"A greater vampire had all the abilities of a lesser vampire and could also move about freely in daylight."
"During the hours of daylight, the greater vampire retained its superior strength and spell immunities, but could not use any of its special abilities such as life-drain, shape-shifting, or gaseous form."

Greater Vampire Abilities according to book:
"These creatures possess all the regular attack forms and abilities of lesser vampires." Here is a notable one:
"As is well known, vampires may project a powerful charm through their eyes. The charm certainly may be used against those of the same sex and lasts indefinitely. As an alternate usage, when the monster desires to remain inconspicious, a creature making eye contact with the vampire is subject to a suggestion spell." - suggestion spell according to 5e
"In addition, their gaze weapon also may be employed as a hold person spell.
'"Another talent they may employ is to summon minor demons to serve them for up to 24 hours. This only may be attempted during the hours of darkness, obviously,..."

DMing the Greater Vampires:
"Greater vampires are far more deadly than their lesser counterparts. In almost every case, the creature will adopt the persona of a normal citizen, frequently wealthy, and will do its utmost to keep its true nature a secret..."

- MC is being charmed by a lesser/greater vampire. Vampire spawn doesn't posses the ability to charm (according to 5e) - for reference https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Vampire_spawn
- Astarion is deliberately hiding facts about himself and giving you half truths; I feel like his persona is cracking, if you start looking at dialogue options where you question him/taunt him, sometimes tease him. He loses his posture when he gets a question, that he doesn't expect. I believe that's when MC is getting the most accurate info.
- Astarion mentions we will figure out his other quirks, if you talk to him after the feeding - for reference. This makes me think he is already hiding something.
- There are some buggy scenes before he bites you, showing him sneaking off into the night. He might be practicing his (new) powers, not only hunting for snack.
- The summon demons made me chuckle a little, as it fits this hellish setting so well. Don't you think?
- The only weakness that we know of as, of right now, is the water, this might be something that is just not implemented during EA. If he starts being weak towards some other things that a vampire should, I think he potentially could have been greater vampire already before being abducted.
Maybe he still served Cazador, maybe Cazador wanted a vampire that could walk in the sunlight to do his dirty work. We only have Astarion's word that Cazador turned him. This might not be true.
What if Astarion was stuck in hell for a while instead? Maybe he boarded the nautiloid at some point in hopes to escape? Just like Karlach?
Cazador could have been the reason why he ended up in the hells and that's why he would want to kill him.
I also saw this comment on reddit some time ago, it could make sense, for this theory - for reference.

I believe vampires can still be good, but like Drow and goblins, they've got a strong tendency for evil.
I don't think this means that he would betray you no matter what, it's just a theory about his backstory.


@Nicottia;;
Thanks for your thoughts as always smile It's always good to stay a bit grounded. That dialogue indeed might just some fluke, but it did made me question him.
Posted By: Nicottia Re: Romances of Faerun - 02/11/20 11:44 AM
@Vamathi Well, an entertaining theory, if it wasn't for the fact that the old source books and info about greater vampires have been heavily retconned. That's my main problem with our current D&D lore, it's been so heavily retonned on so many aspects that it's very hard to tell how stuff works sometimes.

For example - all vampires in BG2 seemed to be independent, so not really spawns, and on top of that at higher lvls 'greater vampires' were quite a common enemy in BG2. So we know that the way vampires work has been changed in 3e. BG1/2 = 2e. So I highly doubt Astarion is a greater vampire, like I said - if he was indeed mind controlling you, you wouldn't be able to kick him out of your camp entirely (after him trying to bite you). If he was a greater vampire, and you were dire charmed, it would be impossible to say no to him. So no, you've gone a bit off the deep end with your theory. Basically, you have an idea that he's more than he is and you are grasping at any straws to prove your theory. Look at it all logically with an open mind.

Is Astarion old? Yes.
Does it make sense for a 'greater vampire' to start off at lvl 1? No.
Does it make sense for a vampire spawn to start at lvl 1? Not really, but since he's supposed to be a much weaker version of a vampire, it's at least plausible.
Does it make sense for Astarion to start at lvl 1? Yes and no. If he spent all his 200 years of vampirism being an errand boy for Cazador and wasn't allowed a drop of human blood (could be elven etc) then sure.
Does it make sense for a vampire spawn to have access to dire charm at lvl 1? No.
Does Astarion lie about Cazador? No. Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5U7cWMyz3I (most of your theories fall apart after watching this - considering it's from his point of view - basically he can't be serving Cazador while this is his reaction).
Is Astarion absolutely terrified of Cazador? Yes, for a good reason. We don't know the extent of Cazador's abuse. And Astarion isn't really forthcoming with information, not yet anyway.
Is being charming a part of Astarion's personality or is it due to his vampirism? I think it could be both.
Now does it make sense for Astarion to be a lvl 1 700 yr old elven vampire spawn? Why not? If he wasted his time in life seeking wealth (and according to some old PR material on him, it was implied that he was quite ruthless in life anyway) and partying, mingling in high societies, then why not? And the 200 years he spent being a slave, it's not like he would be allowed any personal growth.

That's the thing, your theory is all fun, but it's way too convoluted. I'd say - the resolution to it all is most likely going to be quite simple.
Posted By: Vamathi Re: Romances of Faerun - 02/11/20 12:21 PM
@Nicottia;;
BG3 is homebrew anyways. I don't see why they couldn't dig out something from a very old module, if WotC allows them.
Greater vampire is only mentioned in the old module. It's hard to say if it can be considered canon, but than again, we have level 4 Archdruids. Greater vampires would be definitely extremely rare - was created from the life-draining kiss of a succubus. Who knows how that could have happen. Honestly though BG1/BG3 have weird vampire setting so it's hard to compare how consistent they want to be with previous games...

As for the charm, for narrative purposes I think they could want to hide it from the player as much as possible in a way.

About the origin story - as I said in the thread as well, I believe he has been a slave to Cazador. The cinematic seems to be pretty set in ground so I think the scene won't change. I don't think Cazador lives in hells or something. His origin character story can disprove that Cazador had anything to do with that though, as it's clear he says that he would be jealous of him. His origin description might change with full-release. I can see Larian try to semi-hide it to not spoil a potential villain to your party...

I am just gonna say I've seen players being a much more powerful things out of nowhere, when the party caught up a little or pissed them off, in DnD games, this is pretty popular surprise to players in classic table top. And than there is a possibility that somehow as he went through Avernus he turned into a greater vampire from a lesser vampire. For narrative purposes this could be also hidden by the "DM" and he could have had an internal dialogue after playing him as origin character later on, explaining more... As I said, I expect there are some missing dialogues related to him, so there might as well be a scene like that in Act 1. They might just not want to reveal yet.

Well, at least it's fun! ^^ And yes, I do not like simple resolutions, I want and like plot twists laugh
Posted By: Nicottia Re: Romances of Faerun - 02/11/20 12:51 PM
@Vamathi Yes, I also doubt that Cazador lives in hell or something, but I still wonder how come he's about the only elf with a beard. Which is where that theory of Fey'ri came from, afaik a fey'ri could still be turned into a vampire... I think (not sure how it could work though). It could also explain his long ears and beard (from his demonic parent perhaps?) and his proficiency in infernal, although, being a vampire he could've always studied languages for years, he has nothing but time on his side.

But again, if Astarion had dire charmed the PC, they wouldn't be able to kick him out of the group completely. If we were under dire charm, we wouldn't be able to betray him to that gur monster hunter (I always forget his name). So again, I don't think Astarion himself knows what's he's capable of with the tadpole in his head (I'm hoping he'll be able to turn into mist eventually). Which is why he's so adamant about finding a way to control it rather than getting rid of it, but I'm sure Larian will find a way for us to get rid of it and not lose our vamp boy, otherwise it's Ifan (DOS2) running off all over again. I don't think they want to rehash old writing mistakes again.

Speaking of crazy theories, I will share mine from reddit, from that infernal translation topic: https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGat...and_analyzed_cazadors/g9q0q3v/?context=3

It's basically another overthought convoluted theory. wink

But yeah, I do like plot twists. It would be fun, if err, our female PCs, after having slept with him, would... result in this: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Dhampyr . Again, it's a damn stretch, I know. It would be fun tho.

But a more possible plot twist I might have is that Astarion has actual family that's alive and unaware of his fate: him being a vampire spawn. Like you said - we know nothing about him, maybe he had a sibling, which had their own children, maybe he was a married and was a father? We don't know. But when it comes to possible theories and plot twists, I think this one is more likely than Astarion being a 'greater vampire' (he sorta is one as long as he has the tadpole in his head).
Posted By: Bernkastel Re: Romances of Faerun - 02/11/20 01:06 PM
Nah, I think the beard and the sleeping elf were just mistakes from someone who didn't know those details about elves smile
Hopefully they will change it.
Astarion becoming a greater vampire would be interesting for his companion quest. Maybe greater vampire = have to do something evil and human = redemption.
Posted By: Kadajko Re: Romances of Faerun - 02/11/20 02:05 PM
Originally Posted by Nyloth
I mean imagine that you are playing as evil character and good character changes to the evil side (this is the reverse example). I've never seen this before... It's not fair that ppl always trying change evil characters, but this never happens with good characters.


It does happen, Kotor 2 and Jade empire come to mind from the top of my head, I'm sure there was more.
Posted By: Tarlonniel Re: Romances of Faerun - 02/11/20 02:09 PM
Things are going to get very interesting re: Astarion when we reach Baldur's Gate. All the people who know him, but not about his vampire status, will be surprised to see him walking around during the day. Those who do know he's a vampire will be surprised and confused. Cazador is going to be surprised, confused, intrigued and possibly a little fearful - if Astarion can walk in sunlight, what else can he do now? And just how powerful are these new friends he's made? Should be lots of fun.

The two obvious outcomes of confronting his master are Astarion drinking his blood and becoming a true vampire (who might then be able to turn us) or just killing him and remaining a vampire spawn. As I said, I'm on board with the un-undead route, but I think it'll have to wait for the very end of the game if it happens at all.
Posted By: Vamathi Re: Romances of Faerun - 02/11/20 02:22 PM
I think I have just found a definite proof that Astarion lies here.
Basically the dev says that he gets invitation for the whole settlement. So again, this would mean that there is another weakness he still has, even though he is immune to sun.
I mean, as far as I know it also wasn't confirmed that we could create a vampire player character no? Only that Astarion is going to be unique. Wouldn't it be possible that he is unique, because for whatever reason he has the ability to walk in the sunlight and it's not the tadpole causing it?

This is from Larian's FAQ:
Origin Characters come with personal backstories, quests and motivations, and have unique ways of interacting with the world, whether you're playing as them or alongside them. If recruited as companions, their previous experiences and attitudes will influence their opinion about what you should do and how you should behave. Everything that you do or say might influence the course of your relationship with them, and determine whether you'll become friends, lovers, rivals, or bitter enemies.
I mean we already know that the other characters are hiding something from us as well. Please tell me it's not irrational to think, that a goddamn vampire, an evil creature, wouldn't be hiding something. For all we know Astarion might be able to control what we see.


@Nicottia;;

We can't even use the the illithid powers on Astarion. Ever. You can only persuade him. With any of the other companions, you can try and go deeper. Since our first encounter he will not show you any of his memories. It scares him right there and he will never open up his head again.
Here, there you have your proof of Charm. We can only detect his goddamn thoughts - for reference
The hunter scene, again is telling if he takes Astarion - we don't see how he takes him down - for reference.
There is dialogue and scene missing. If we tell the hunter where the location is, he will just disappear over night.

I really like your theory on the potential for the seal! At the moment it's related to his sun-walking in my head, maybe it was some sort of a ritual.
Posted By: azarhal Re: Romances of Faerun - 02/11/20 02:29 PM
Originally Posted by Kadajko
Originally Posted by Nyloth
I mean imagine that you are playing as evil character and good character changes to the evil side (this is the reverse example). I've never seen this before... It's not fair that ppl always trying change evil characters, but this never happens with good characters.


It does happen, Kotor 2 and Jade empire come to mind from the top of my head, I'm sure there was more.



SWTOR does too, but only on The Empire side base class stories. I'm seeing a pattern. BioWare abandonned the concept now thought. Good NPCs won't mind your evil PC that much and evil characters won't mind your goody-two-shoes PC, the clinching is just faction based. And it feels so weird to romance Lana in SWTOR on anything but a Sith/Imp (or Dark Sided Jedi) to me.

The option to "fix" the evil romanceable NPC is much more common and send the wrong message I think (you are manipulating people just so they love you).
Posted By: Linnea Re: Romances of Faerun - 02/11/20 03:27 PM
Originally Posted by azarhal

The option to "fix" the evil romanceable NPC is much more common and send the wrong message I think (you are manipulating people just so they love you).


Um, well, call me old fashioned but I dislike evil so I like to see characters change their evil ways even if it is in a small way, not like a massive conversion overnight.

Also, when I role play a PC they never go into a relationship/friendship expecting to change the companion. It just happens, or it doesn't and ends in heartbreak. I can't say that any game has actually given me the impression that the PC is actively trying to change anyone. They give advice/opinions based on how you role play them, but even the companions do that.
Posted By: Nicottia Re: Romances of Faerun - 02/11/20 03:28 PM
Originally Posted by Vamathi
I think I have just found a definite proof that Astarion lies here.
Basically the dev says that he gets invitation for the whole settlement. So again, this would mean that there is another weakness he still has, even though he is immune to sun.
I mean, as far as I know it also wasn't confirmed that we could create a vampire player character no? Only that Astarion is going to be unique. Wouldn't it be possible that he is unique, because for whatever reason he has the ability to walk in the sunlight and it's not the tadpole causing it?

This is from Larian's FAQ:
Origin Characters come with personal backstories, quests and motivations, and have unique ways of interacting with the world, whether you're playing as them or alongside them. If recruited as companions, their previous experiences and attitudes will influence their opinion about what you should do and how you should behave. Everything that you do or say might influence the course of your relationship with them, and determine whether you'll become friends, lovers, rivals, or bitter enemies.
I mean we already know that the other characters are hiding something from us as well. Please tell me it's not irrational to think, that a goddamn vampire, an evil creature, wouldn't be hiding something. For all we know Astarion might be able to control what we see.


Whenever you talk with Astarion after the feeding night, there is a line where he suspects it's the tadpole causing his ability to daywalk. He even says, he should be incinerated in broad daylight and it's been the first time he's seen the sun and felt it's rays, that something (the Absolute) wants him alive (for the same reason Shadowheart was told she was going to become a 'beautiful weapon'). From all the footage as Astarion it's also confirmed. it's not a lie. You are again jumping through hoops to find anything that could possibly confirm your flawed theory. And when you enter Ethel's hut, you can talk to Astarion about his ability to walk into homes uninvited. Also, whatever devs said about being invited into settlements. Whatever works, again, you are overthinking and over-analyzing anything and everything said by Astarion, you are trying to, in a way, misconstrue anything he says as a 'deception' or a 'lie'.

Again, I re-illiterate Astarion is not even aware of his own capabilities with the tadpole in his head. What would further mean that a lot of weaknesses native to vampires will be gone. In very essence, when he says he might be the most powerful vampire in existence, he's not lying. Speaking of vampire PCs, they've been confirmed actually. How they'll be implemented, nobody knows. It's a possibility that during the story, we might get a chance to be turned (by Astarion or Cazador is my bet) or maybe we'll be able to create one from the get go. From what I've come across, Larian is still developing the best way to solve this. So who knows, maybe that idea won't be finished and the only way for us to become a vampire is to be turned by one.

But overall, I think you are just stuck thinking that Astarion is this amazingly overpowered vampire that tries to hide his power from us. No, honey, just no. All companions have secrets, some of them take longer to uncover than others - and for example, in Astarion's case, I do think the way he was turned was hella suspicious, that Cazador just happened by. I do believe Cazador targeted him for a reason. You even have a way of saying so to Astarion after that gur encounter.

Originally Posted by Vamathi
@Nicottia;;

We can't even use the the illithid powers on Astarion. Ever. You can only persuade him. With any of the other companions, you can try and go deeper. Since our first encounter he will not show you any of his memories. It scares him right there and he will never open up his head again.
Here, there you have your proof of Charm. We can only detect his goddamn thoughts - for reference
The hunter scene, again is telling if he takes Astarion - we don't see how he takes him down - for reference.
There is dialogue and scene missing. If we tell the hunter where the location is, he will just disappear over night.

I really like your theory on the potential for the seal! At the moment it's related to his sun-walking in my head, maybe it was some sort of a ritual.


Not this again, it's not a proof he charmed us... And yes, I've seen the detect thoughts vid many times, it's just too bad it's not implemented yet in the EA (that person even says he/she used mods to enable console commands and edited tags). It's been confirmed already that we'll be able to use charm person, detect thoughts, friends and all the other spells of that manner in dialogue too. They aren't implemented in the EA as of yet. Also, you can't use illithid powers on Gale either and it doesn't prove a damn thing, you don't even mind-meld with him when you meet, by your logic, that would mean that Gale is the demogorgon or something. And there is obviously a lot of content/cutscenes missing, like one with that gur monster hunter if you choose to betray Astarion.

Again, it's fun to speculate and theorize, but please, don't go on believing your own theories about Astarion so much. Everything points to you getting hella disappointed come release when most of them will turn out to be pure gibberish, just like that theory of mine about the meaning of that poem. It's most likely bullshit. laugh
Posted By: Vamathi Re: Romances of Faerun - 02/11/20 04:01 PM
@Nicottia;;
Gale might be a demogorgon, who knows. I haven't looked into him that much yet laugh

I am not going to be disappointed. I love the way it's set-up, because this makes me question Astarion. In a usual DnD party, set in Forgotten Realms world a vampire player character doesn't make much sense.
For a good character especially good cleric, once you know someone is a vampire you would likely want to get rid of them. And you can. They are evil by nature.

Somehow, Astarion is a sun-walker and if the dev interview is correct, he does lie. We can speculate whether it's correct or not, but it's some proof. You can't just dismiss it. If the video isn't enough - there is an article about it as well - here.

What if the demo, dream and other things that make Astarion's story about Cazador correct or true for you, is the exact reason they did the demo with Astarion, which wasn't completely from his POV? As you said, things change and this could have been exactly there, to help them sell this broken vampire guy that just want to get his revenge. He is acting like someone who is wounded. But that's what I think it is. Acting.
I've been around game development, this could be exactly what they are doing with it.
And I might be completely wrong. But no, I will not be disappointed. I really really like Astarion's character and how he behaves. The question is, if a vampire can really be genuine, or if this a plot that will completely change how we viewed the character, up until we played it or reached the conclussion with our own player character.

Anyways, whenever my crazy theories come true, even just parts of them I am very excited. My brain power can be used for more useful things later. This sparks joy right now and at least I am getting lots of lore info from wikis and handbooks laugh I am even getting some inspiration for my own DnD campaign.

This place is to discuss theories after all ^^

Posted By: Tarlonniel Re: Romances of Faerun - 03/11/20 01:53 AM
Originally Posted by Nicottia
In very essence, when he says he might be the most powerful vampire in existence, he's not lying.


He's exaggerating quite a bit, though; as far as 5e vampire spawn go, Astarion is kind of a wimp. No regeneration, no damage resistance, no spider climb, no claw attack, his bite doesn't have the extra necrotic damage, and if I'm reading the entry right, he's missing a natural armor bonus. Walking in sunlight and entering houses is probably great fun for him, but he's lost a lot of power. Of course, he also seems to be free from Cazador's control, which I'm sure he thinks is worth the nerf.

It's interesting that healing spells work on him. Maybe that's just not implemented yet, though.
Posted By: Nicottia Re: Romances of Faerun - 03/11/20 09:02 AM
Originally Posted by Tarlonniel
Originally Posted by Nicottia
In very essence, when he says he might be the most powerful vampire in existence, he's not lying.


He's exaggerating quite a bit, though; as far as 5e vampire spawn go, Astarion is kind of a wimp. No regeneration, no damage resistance, no spider climb, no claw attack, his bite doesn't have the extra necrotic damage, and if I'm reading the entry right, he's missing a natural armor bonus. Walking in sunlight and entering houses is probably great fun for him, but he's lost a lot of power. Of course, he also seems to be free from Cazador's control, which I'm sure he thinks is worth the nerf.

It's interesting that healing spells work on him. Maybe that's just not implemented yet, though.


True, but I believe he's been heavily nerfed for the sole reason: if he retained all his vamp spawn powers, maybe even progressed further into full blown vampire, he'd be easily the most overpowered of companions. Something along the lines of Sarevok in BG2. Those random one shots (well, not really one shots, but his deathbringer assault had 10% chance to deal 200 dmg, so, pretty much a one shot). Basically, Astarion would fill in all the roles - tank (high AC + health regen), damage (necrotic bite + rogue sneak attacks) and a spell caster (if you pick arcane trickster subclass), sure, he's not as good of a caster as full blown wizard or warlock, but who cares when he's one man invincible army? wink
Posted By: Tarlonniel Re: Romances of Faerun - 03/11/20 02:23 PM
True, they had to keep him in line with his fellow victims of the nerf bat - the ex-Chosen of Mystra, the not-so-legendary monster hunter, etc. - but in the process they've almost turned being a vampire into something cosmetic, which is... odd. If we do get a chance to make our PCs vampires eventually, will it be mostly a roleplay thing? If Astarion gets upgraded to "true vampire," will he just get another [tag] added to his list and nothing else?
Posted By: Arideya Re: Romances of Faerun - 03/11/20 04:18 PM
Originally Posted by Nicottia


True, but I believe he's been heavily nerfed for the sole reason: if he retained all his vamp spawn powers, maybe even progressed further into full blown vampire, he'd be easily the most overpowered of companions. Something along the lines of Sarevok in BG2. Those random one shots (well, not really one shots, but his deathbringer assault had 10% chance to deal 200 dmg, so, pretty much a one shot). Basically, Astarion would fill in all the roles - tank (high AC + health regen), damage (necrotic bite + rogue sneak attacks) and a spell caster (if you pick arcane trickster subclass), sure, he's not as good of a caster as full blown wizard or warlock, but who cares when he's one man invincible army? wink



Sarevok's Deathbringer assault actually had 3% change to kick in for 200 dmg, and 10% chance to stun the target, but for some reason for me at least it always felt more frequent. Probably because of his crazy stats or maybe because I always gave him boots of speed and a vorpal sword at the start so if it wasn't one effect it was another.

Originally Posted by Tarlonniel
True, they had to keep him in line with his fellow victims of the nerf bat - the ex-Chosen of Mystra, the not-so-legendary monster hunter, etc. - but in the process they've almost turned being a vampire into something cosmetic, which is... odd. If we do get a chance to make our PCs vampires eventually, will it be mostly a roleplay thing? If Astarion gets upgraded to "true vampire," will he just get another [tag] added to his list and nothing else?


To be honest I'm hoping Gale is not Chosen of Mystra or ex-Chosen... that kind of goes against established lore and he should be way more powerful than he is. As for Astarion I don't know if I want him to be a full-blown vampire who will be damaged by healing spells. I like Divinity Original Sin 2 a lot, and similarities are good, but that would be way too much like Fane.
Posted By: Vamathi Re: Romances of Faerun - 03/11/20 06:59 PM
@Arideya;;
I think the main reason why I even started thinking about crazy theories for Astarion and Shadowheart, was that Gale's backstory from what we have, already sounds quite epic.
If Astarion's backstory turns out true, as he says it, I will probably cry a little for ever doubting him :|
We will just to wait and see I guess... but I really wonder how powerful can he become, going full evil!
And I also want to know, if there might some different resolutions to the romance specifically, based on the path you'd choose and class.

I wonder if tieflings will be more likely to figure out what's up with Astarion's back. I wonder if he possibly stayed in hells for a while, like Jander Sunstar and somehow escaped? I don't think we will have an accurate translation before release, but I like to entertain the idea, that he was bound to hells for some reason. He is scared of Cambion, corrects you if you don't pronounce Gale's resurrection ignan properly which I also find odd, but I guess maybe he could learn something from Cazador if he is versed in infernal...
This thing that Swen Vincke said about Astarion keeps haunting me; when we see it we will be like: 'Oh fuck!'"
I am fully prepared to get back stabbed laugh

Originally Posted by Tarlonniel
True, they had to keep him in line with his fellow victims of the nerf bat - the ex-Chosen of Mystra, the not-so-legendary monster hunter, etc. - but in the process they've almost turned being a vampire into something cosmetic, which is... odd. If we do get a chance to make our PCs vampires eventually, will it be mostly a roleplay thing? If Astarion gets upgraded to "true vampire," will he just get another [tag] added to his list and nothing else?

As long as we can do become vampires later, I am good. I don't know how they would want to implement a vampire spawn PC from the beginning story-wise...
Posted By: Verte Re: Romances of Faerun - 03/11/20 07:11 PM
Originally Posted by Vamathi
@Arideya;;
I think the main reason why I even started thinking about crazy theories for Astarion and Shadowheart, was that Gale's backstory from what we have, already sounds quite epic.
If Astarion's backstory turns out true, as he says it, I will probably cry a little for ever doubting him :|
We will just to wait and see I guess... but I really wonder how powerful can he become, going full evil!
And I also want to know, if there might some different resolutions to the romance specifically, based on the path you'd choose and class.

I wonder if tieflings will be more likely to figure out what's up with Astarion's back. I wonder if he possibly stayed in hells for a while, like Jander Sunstar and somehow escaped? I don't think we will have an accurate translation before release, but I like to entertain the idea, that he was bound to hells for some reason. He is scared of Cambion, corrects you if you don't pronounce Gale's resurrection ignan properly which I also find odd, but I guess maybe he could learn something from Cazador if he is versed in infernal...
This thing that Swen Vincke said about Astarion keeps haunting me; when we see it we will be like: 'Oh fuck!'"
I am fully prepared to get back stabbed laugh


Honestly, with the amount of shady companions, each (well, except for Wyll) can 'backstab' us at some point. I remember Ignus...
Posted By: Vamathi Re: Romances of Faerun - 03/11/20 07:27 PM
Originally Posted by Verte
Honestly, with the amount of shady companions, each (well, except for Wyll) can 'backstab' us at some point. I remember Ignus...

As long as it creates a great storytelling I am all for it ^^ We can only guess what will the conclussion to each character be... on our individual playthroughs laugh
I'll just pray Gale doesn't blow up while dreaming about Mystra.
Posted By: Abits Re: Romances of Faerun - 03/11/20 07:31 PM
Yoshimo: "did someone say backstabbing? Yoshimo is willing"
Posted By: Verte Re: Romances of Faerun - 03/11/20 07:53 PM
Originally Posted by Vamathi

As long as it creates a great storytelling I am all for it ^^ We can only guess what will the conclussion to each character be... on our individual playthroughs laugh
I'll just pray Gale doesn't blow up while dreaming about Mystra.


This or I will blow up after giving him one more artifact. Even Astarion is less thirsty.
Posted By: Topper Re: Romances of Faerun - 03/11/20 11:34 PM
Romance is fundamental to DnD. I mean, how else would you meet your wife? Wonder how many of us met our partner over a set of hot dice wink I love the option to get close to someone and add a bit more gritty adult stuff. Just makes the adventure that bit more interesting. Shadowheart? You hearing this? Babe? Hello....
Posted By: Tarlonniel Re: Romances of Faerun - 04/11/20 01:10 AM
Originally Posted by Arideya
To be honest I'm hoping Gale is not Chosen of Mystra or ex-Chosen... that kind of goes against established lore and he should be way more powerful than he is.


I'm not terribly proficient in Realms lore, but Gale's backstory does seem more - I dunno, extreme? - than the others. Lover and Chosen of a god must be a much rarer thing to achieve than "vampire spawn", "folk hero", "random githyanki" (is Lae'zel special at all?) and... whatever Shadowheart is. Also, how the heck is our PC supposed to compete with Mystra. Yeesh.

Gale and Shadowheart seem to have the most well-developed romance tracks so far. Once Wyll's gets unbugged, maybe it'll be up there too. I'd like to see more content for Astarion and Lae'zel but I'm not sure if that's even in the works. And I definitely hope we'll get more of this stuff in Act II and III; Original Sin 2 kind of dropped the ball there, IIRC (and I may be remembering entirely wrong, I basically only romanced Ifan).

As far as shady companions go, I think the top spot in this game will go to

the suspicious-looking rodent riding a ranger mount. Far too charming, and talk about unbelievable backstories! Gonna keep my eyes on those two.
Posted By: FaultyValve Re: Romances of Faerun - 04/11/20 04:45 AM
I think Lae'zel might be more than she's told us. She talks to that githyanki knight like she's higher than he is unless we intervene...then they attack us, but that's not the point. Shadowheart is either some chosen of Shar, or perhaps a Selunite priestess who's been captured and mindwiped by sharans..hmm? probably the former. Gale's story seems.... um, ok-ish. as long as they keep giving us mediochre blue items to feed him. If I have to start giving him my good items he's getting dumped.
Posted By: Dez Re: Romances of Faerun - 04/11/20 06:46 AM
Originally Posted by Nicottia
Originally Posted by Tzelanit
I like the romances as they're done now and don't really need them expanded out.
I'd rather see resources put into even more regular interactions and conversations with my companions that comment on what's going on in the moment than play a mini-game where I have to say the right thing to get the approval of a pile of pixels with the hopes that I get an awkward cutscene of plastic bodies tangled together like I'm at the Twister National Championships for Action Figures.


Err, twister national olympics can happen regardless of romance. laugh

Here's proof:
[Linked Image]



@Vamathi ... please forgive me if I don't massively quote and respond to every point like I did before, a bit too tired for it right now, but overall, I agree, Astarion is a manipulator. All our current companions are, minus Wyll I'd say.

And yes, unpopular opinion, but I find Shadowheart to be quite manipulative too, not on the lvl Astarion is, but she's close enough. Anyhow, after Anders from DA2 and Solas from DAI, I'm hella paranoid of all possible romance options in games. And with popularity of GoT (like I mentioned in previous thread), I really think we're in for some interesting plot twists. Not necessarily regarding Astarion, but the other companions, especially Shadowheart, are on my radar... and Gale. I've come across this entertaining conspiracy theory on reddit about Gale being truly evil. It's an interesting read for sure: https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/jlu5yh/ruminations_whats_your_crazy_theory/


Now that was an EXTREMELY interesting thread.

... I feel like I actually like Gale better now - who does not enjoy a little depth and plot! Still not romancing any of the options though. I really feel like NONE of the available characters suit my ranger lady, even a tiny bit. <.<

Regarding romances, I have an anecdote I'd like to share;
during my first playthrough, I didn't romance anybody (like mentioned above). When we had the celebration at the camp after saving the refugees, Astarion wanted to talk to me (as you all know here, sleep with me) - I told him no and went to check in with all other companions. ALL of them acted as if I had said yes to Astarion. Wyll wanted to toast for us, Gale told him Astarion was a lucky man, Laz snorted at me that my actions had made her run hot, but that I already missed a chance with her cause I promised my body to Astarion, and finally Shadowheart was just being... Shadowheart. And I was just left there being very confused. XD This must have been a flag-bug though, I had a friend experiencing the same - but another friend also tried going non-romance, after hearing of our experience, and he didn't suffer the same issue. Did this happen to anyone else who didn't care for a romance run yet?
Posted By: Vamathi Re: Romances of Faerun - 07/11/20 12:13 PM
If you really want to know if your companions are hiding something from you, look at this:
Posted By: Tarlonniel Re: Romances of Faerun - 07/11/20 02:12 PM
Aww, all of the #1 options are so sweet (except Lae'zel - no sweetness allowed!). But of course they exist to give you such options when you play as an origin character - whether the characters have similar desires "on their own", so to speak, is up in the air. Hopefully Larian can manage to work it all in.

But good Lathander, Gale.
"A mythal in my own right."


What's next? Gonna start aiming for Ao's job?
Posted By: xarallei Re: Romances of Faerun - 07/11/20 03:15 PM
Jumping in here. I REALLY wish there was some way to prioritize interactions with the companions you want. I find despite being "high" attitude with Astarion and only medium with Shadowheart and neutral with Lae'zel, the game still prioritizes their interactions. I literally have to knock both of them out before any of the Illithid dream sequences if I want to get the Astarion interactions. Don't get me wrong. I love Shadowheart and plan on romancing her, just not with that particular character. But I find I need to use her or Lae'zel a lot because otherwise my party is just too squishy. *sighs* Please, please, please allow us to have some way to prioritize interactions with the characters we want.
Posted By: azarhal Re: Romances of Faerun - 07/11/20 03:32 PM
Originally Posted by Tarlonniel
Aww, all of the #1 options are so sweet (except Lae'zel - no sweetness allowed!). But of course they exist to give you such options when you play as an origin character - whether the characters have similar desires "on their own", so to speak, is up in the air. Hopefully Larian can manage to work it all in.

But good Lathander, Gale.
"A mythal in my own right."


What's next? Gonna start aiming for Ao's job?


The options are all things hinted at by the game for those characters as companions.

I mean, Shadowheart's personal quest is literally called Chosen of Shar.
Posted By: Tarlonniel Re: Romances of Faerun - 07/11/20 03:39 PM
Originally Posted by xarallei
I find despite being "high" attitude with Astarion and only medium with Shadowheart and neutral with Lae'zel, the game still prioritizes their interactions.


Yeah, I was amazed at all the new interactions I got with Astarion when I did a Lone Wolf run (I recruited Gale too but he stayed in camp permanently).

I also dislike that so many meaningful interactions are gated behind abusing the tadpole. Though that does make it more tempting.
Posted By: carcra Re: Romances of Faerun - 07/11/20 03:58 PM
I fully agree that certain companion scenes overrides others and made a thread about that not too long ago. I'd wish that instead of overriding, we'd be able to get all the reactions/scenes/longer conversations at camp with ALL party members, regardless of who else is in the party.

I love Shadowheart too, she's one of my favorites so far, but I noticed that the game kind of seems to favor her a lot. Afaik, she's the only companion who will show up in the Grove if you miss her at the beginning, and her solo banter of "hmmm there must be a way to open this thing" as she struggles with her box is impossible to avoid when you run around in that area. She's also the only one who, if you ignore her in the Grove, seeks you out at camp where you get yet another chance to recruit her, even if you try to avoid it.

When I did my first playthrough, I always had her in my party and I always got her reactions to things as opposed to other party members, and her scenes in camp were mostly prioritized with the "!" above her head (after the fourth dream, after Lae'zel attacks you etc.). I've done a playthrough without her and finally get to see more of other companions, though Lae'zel is prone to this as well, I think.

It's a bit frustrating to miss out on content from all the others just because I have SH in the party. And, like xarallei said, I also kind of need her or Lae'zel because I'm playing as a Warlock. Not only that, but I'm interested in her story, so I don't want to have to drop her and avoid her just because she hogs most of the scenes. Hopefully this will be addressed at some point.
Posted By: Sozz Re: Romances of Faerun - 07/11/20 05:29 PM
Originally Posted by Tarlonniel
..."random githyanki" (is Lae'zel special at all?) and...

Originally Posted by FaultyValve
I think Lae'zel might be more than she's told us. She talks to that githyanki knight like she's higher than he is unless we intervene...then they attack us, but that's not the point...


I picked up on that too, I've begun to wonder if her constantly referencing Vlaakith as the mother to all Githyanki is more than metaphorical for her.

Originally Posted by Vamathi
If you really want to know if your companions are hiding something from you, look at this:

Looking at this I find it especially telling that Lae'zel is the only character that doesn't get an option that deals with her past.
© Larian Studios forums