Larian Studios
TL-DR - here you can discuss great RPGs of the past, make recommendations, and share your opinion about which is the best.

We've been beating around the bush for too long. It's time to talk about the greatest RPGs of all times, what made them great, and what can Baldur's Gate 3 learn from them. I want this thread to be a place where you can discuss, argue (nicely), and share your thoughts about the RPG video games we had up until this point. Everything that came before Baldur's Gate 3 is fair game. If you think a game belongs here, it belongs here.

To kickstart this discussion, I made a list of categories, each one about a game and/or company that did something great for the genre. You are welcome to fill out these categories with your favorites, create some of your own, or write anything else you'd like. I do recommend keeping Baldur's Gate 3 in mind, A because after all, it is a Baldur's Gate 3 forum, and B because I think another look at these games and their design might prove useful in improving Baldur's Gate 3.

My list:

Best RPG studio of all times: Bioware

Some would say it's predictable, some would say "wake up the king is dead", and some would consider both statements to be true. But personally, I can't deny that so much of the joy I felt when playing video games comes from playing one Bioware or another. This company has been around for a while, and for a while they were unbeatable. In their prime, they always tried to innovate and change the way they do things, but the core storytelling and character designs remained the same. Some would say Bioware fall stems from teaming up with the devil, I mean EA (sorry devil, even you are not that bad), but I think Bioware tried too much to casualize their games, which led to their downfall. I really hope they'll come back though, but on the other hand, I think there are others that keep their old flame burning (namely CD project, but time will tell).

Best RPG game series: Baldur's Gate

Another obvious choice, but a well-deserved one. The original Baldur's Gate was quite Unique (or so I've been told, I didn't play it until much later). A lot of exploration in a beautiful world map, nice quest, and cool story. The DND systems in place provided a lot of tactical fun, and it had a great sense of humor. The Second Baldur's Gate was an undisputed (as much as these things can be) masterpiece. This series shows how to take something great, and improve upon it without throwing out anything. The second game had a great story, amazing characters, and even better combat mechanics. This is the perfect example of how to create a good RPG series, take what was good and improve all the rough parts. Bioware made similar things with Mass Effect 2 (which is still considered to be the best in that series) but the Baldur's Gate will always be a shining beacon of a good game design advancement.

Best RPG for modders The Elder Scrolls: Skyrim

Skyrim is a great and fun game. It has a vast and inviting world, some crazy fun side quest, and cool mechanics. But to be honest, even in the Elder Scroll series alone, there are other games who did all of these things much better. No, Skyrim's greatest asset is its modding community. with (as of now) 65 thousand mods, this game shelf life seems almost infinite. You can find almost any kind of mod you want in Skyrim, from some cosmetic enhancements to amazing fully voice acted quests. Even after almost a decade, this game produces something like 80 mods in a week, and there are many YouTube channels whose sole purpose is to find the best of the best. If mods are your thing, don't miss this one

Best RPG for normies:The Witcher 3

I'll say it upfront - I don't care about combat mechanics. Almost don't care at all. If the combat mechanics are really terrible I might not replay a game (hence why I never could finish a second playthrough of the first Witcher game), but if the story is good enough, I really don't mind. The Witcher 3's combat mechanics are fine IMO. They are fun enough. But since they are action game combat mechanics, I saw many people who say this game (along with Skyrim I suppose) shouldn't be part of best RPGs lists. And I think it's wrong. I think the most important aspects of every RPG (even a tabletop one, but I don't have much experience there so feel free to correct me) are the story, the characters, the world, and the freedom to choose your path. Many video games struggle to achieve all of these together. Skyrim put more emphasis on the world, Mass Effect 2 more on the story and characters, but in very rare cases you get a game that can pull off all of them. and I think the Witcher 3 is such a game. It has its flaws, sure, but it is still a great RPG, and (warning controversial opinion) this game is as much a BG successor as any other CRpg wannabe. You need more than an isometric point of view and RTwP to create something as unique as BG2.

Most Overrated Studio: Obsidian

Now hold on a second, I want to make it clear - if you love Obsidian that's perfectly fine, and most likely that at least in this forum you are the majority (hence the word overrated). I'm not trying to just put Obsidian down, only to talk about my completely subjective opinion of this studio. Feel free to disagree.

If we would say the RPG industry is a classroom, Obsidian always struck me as the edgy wisecracking kid who sits in the back and talk down his teachers. Although they have their formula (which is very different from Bioware's, nut formula all the same), they tend to try to do new things with their stories. I think I like the ideas of most of their games' stories are great and thought provoking, they usually come in a very mediocre package. Very messy but slow start, uninteresting characters, and a sense of humour I don't particularly like made some of their games a real slog for me, and although I played many Obsidian game, I only finished a select few.

Most Promising Studio: Owelcat

I was really struggling with this one. My default answer here is still CD Project Red, a small Polish studio that it's last title made them a huge success in the gaming world and not only in the RPG fandom. And if you're cool with first person shooters, I honestly think it still is. But unfortunately for me, I simply loath this game perspective, and avoided many (supposedly) great games because of it.

For me, another great promise is Owlcat. They have only one game under their belt, but what a game it is. Pathfinder: Kingmaker not only drawed from the mythology of RPG games design, but also found a new and cool ways to innovate and mix up the old formula. Making your main character a lord of small province and having the leadership being a major part of your experience, was a great addition. Other games tried to do similar things, but no one did as successfully. Other than that, Kingmaker has a solid story, very interesting companions, and deep dnd game mechanics. It is rough around the edges, but it shows great promise. I can't wait to see what owlbear will do next.

The one Game that has Everything Baldur's Gate 3 needs to become a legend: Dragon Age: origins

Dragon Age Origins doesn't have the best story or characters. It's combat is fine, nothing to write home about. But I think that if there was one game that showed how important execution is, it was this one. This game has a lot of flags. You could start as a human noble or a dwarven outcast, but either way not only the world respond to you, who you are has a direct influence on the direction the story will go to. The best example is the Landsmeet scene. Without spoilers, I'll only say that scene has many different outcomes many variables and a lot of dialogue lines that shift and change according to the choices you made previously and during it, and everything works and makes sense. This scene also shows that in order to write a western RPG with multiple choice, good story and characters are not always enough. You need attention to details, and to foresee what choices the player might make, and accommodate them. If you wish to see an example of how it is done wrong, give Divinity Original Sin 2 another try.

My favourite game of all times: Star Wars: Knights of the old Republic

I guess you always remember your first. The first western RPG I played is objectively a very good game. It has an interesting star Wars story, great characters, and a fine combat system that's based on a streamlined version of dnd. It is kinda binary in its choices (light side dark side) and is probably unplayable bon most modern machines, but what can I say, love it. And that twist. Damn.

Speaking of twists, the greatest accomplishment of KoTor is not actually about RPGs but about Star Wars. People like to bash the prequels, and for good reason. George Lucas might have a talent for world building and lore writing, but he is a terrible director and a competent screenwriter at best.

But playing Kotor, you can finally see where he was coming from. Many people talked about how Kotor 2 deconstructs the star wars mythos, but few mention how Kotor 1's story and characters help the prequels to become more cohesive and complete story.

It is much smaller part of the story than in Kotor 2 and completely optional, but there are some side story threads that if you'll presue, you'll learn much about the nature of the Jedi order and its flaws.

I agree with some of your choices and not others. But special mention of so very strongly disagree on Obsidian. For me, Obsidian is the best cRPG studio currently out there.
I agree with some, disagree with others.

Best RPG Studio: Black Isle
Best RPG Series: Original Fallout (not 3+)
Best for Modders: I agree with your choice
Best for Normies: I agree with your choice
Most Overrated: Bethesda
Most Promising: I agree with your choice
The one Game: I agree with your choice
My Favorite: Planescape: Torment
Originally Posted by kanisatha
I agree with some of your choices and not others. But special mention of so very strongly disagree on Obsidian. For me, Obsidian is the best cRPG studio currently out there.



Obsidian did a lot of masterpieces like kotor 2 and FNV but also did a lot of AWFUL things like dungeon siege 3 which is awful like diablo 3.
The best CRPG ever created is Pathfinder:Kingmaker.
" I can't wait to see what owlbear will do next."
Nice smile
How it is even possible to choose one D: I have sentiment for adventure in Planescape: Torment but judging by playtime then DOS2 + Neverwinter mmo for few years.
Originally Posted by Verte
How it is even possible to choose one D: I have sentiment for adventure in Planescape: Torment but judging by playtime then DOS2 + Neverwinter mmo for few years.

That's the beauty of this topic, you don't have to you can choose as many as you want.

Does anyone here remember Alpha Protocol?
Fun times.

Best RPG studio of all times: Obsidian
The most RPG studio I can think of. And not one trick ponies either. Their library is messy, but inspired and varied. I only hope they are about to enter their golden age, not a decline...


Best RPG game series: Fallout
BGs is a strong candidate, but there are three excellent Fallout games. While the IP might be dirty now, I think one can’t overlook how brilliant the good ones are.


Best RPG for normies: Dragon Age:Origins
Not a game I like, but like Firaxis XCOMs I think it’s a great introduction to the genre.


Most Overrated Studio: I would say Owlcat, as I believe the campaign for Kingmaker to be the worst one since NWN1, but I want to see more of them. First title, I will give them some slack. scratch that. Bethesda exists. And I am not on recent hate train. I just never understood, why people enjoyed playing their games. I am still to try Morrowind - I hear that one is decent. But Oblivion/Skyrim/Fallout3 were dull chores.


Most Promising Studio: ZA/UM
I can’t quite see them following up on Disco Elysium - especially as it is a game relying on hand-made content rather then systems. Doing a good sequel or follow up, might not be easier as such. Still, I want to see more.


My favourite RPG of all time: Baldur’s Gate 2
You don’t forget your first time. Still, an excellent ride to this day.

Here are some new categories:

Best open world in an RPG:
Gothic2

Best action RPG system:
Dark Souls

Best roll-based combat system:
Pillars of Eternity

RPG sequel I want to play the most:
Alpha Protocol2
Best studio of all time: Black Isle (almost flawless track record for the admittedly short period they had existed)

Best series: Ultima

Best RPG for modders: - (I've never been much into modding so can't discuss)

Best RPG for "Normies": New Vegas, a nice blend of actual role-playing with character customization, choices galore, non-linear questing and mass market FPS

Most overrated studio: CD Projekt Red (not arguing they're a bad studio, mind, but all that hype)

Most promising studio: Really curious what Archetype may bring to the table.

That one game: Doesn't exist yet as developers have mostly focused on cinematic presentation (games aren't movies!), streamlining and accessibility since rather than truly advancing the core values of BG. In other words, trying to reach an ever larger audience has trumped being unique and awesome

Favourite game of alle time: Tough choice, it's probably a tie between Ambermoon as one of my first, Shock 2 and Planescape:Torment/BG1
Hmm. No mention of Wizardry, Might and Magic, Zork?
Agree with many of your statements. BG series and BG2 is my favorite of all time.

Would add 2 more:

Best side quests : Witcher 3

Best writing : Planescape Torment/ DE.
Originally Posted by Agrippa
Hmm. No mention of Wizardry, Might and Magic, Zork?


Not enough cinematic storytelling for newer audiences. :hihi: To be more serious, the influence of Wizardry is arguably greater in Japan than in the West nowadays, which is curious. Speaking of which, D.W. Bradley's Wizards&Warriors is also a really nice dungeon crawler... smile
since we talking about old times i just wanna do some kind of honorable mention:

Game:

Eye of the Beholder, Eye of the Beholder II - The Legend of Darkmoon


Developer:

Westwood Studios


That being said, for me personally, the best RPG of all times isnt really crystal clear. Eye of the Beholder 2, Baldur's Gate 2 and Pathfinder Kingmaker are all three candidates. Maybe Baldur's Gate 3 will soon be up there aswell, it has potential for sure. I'm replaying Pillars of Eternity right now (Never really finished) and plan to play Pillars of Eternity 2 after finishing the first one, so, we'll see if they are as good.

Also, please don't forget, Owlcat is doing another cPRG which might be released at the end of next year (Wrath of the Righteous).
Best RPG studio of all times: Bioware
Best RPG game series: Baldur's Gate
Best RPG for modders : /
Best RPG for normies:The Elder Scrolls : Skyrim
Most Overrated Studio: Bethesda
Most Promising Studio: Owlcat

The one Game that has Everything Baldur's Gate 3 needs to become a legend: Baldur's Gate should be a source of inspiration to create a new gen BG experience.
My favourite game of all times: Baldur's Gate 1/2
There is no such thing as "best" game or studio, it's all very subjective. It's like making a list of most beautiful movie actor or actress of all time: usually all just commercial lies. When it's about what made the deepest marks on you, the commercial success or the oppinion of the majority means nothing.
Of course our subjective opinion isn't better either, so no point arguing ever: all we can say, what we liked and maybe why, if we still remember it.

Bioware isn't the same or ever was in the past: they evolved, changed, improved and also faded away; may return with quality or not. Not the same people, it's mostly a name, though a name which inspires and creates high expectations for a good reason.

Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 are very much overrated by some (and that's okay), because there wasn't anything better back then. First love is greatest. They aren't bad, but just finished BG 1 and playing BG2 now, and nothing to make me cry in there. Aged games, so won't bash them either.

Skyrim was horrible without mods (I quit after 1hr or so), but mods made it an amazing place where one could do nothing just listen to the sounds of nature & weather, and relax for hours. Forest and rivers, if one had a PC to run it on highest of course. Great background music as well. Not much gameplay, but the main story was decent and was fun exploring every corner a few times.

Witcher series are a special kind, very different atmosphere. Avoiding the fighting with mods (don't afraid to mod out annoying parts), the story and the world were captivating, with emotional moments along.

Obsidian creations is among the best, though one have to pick the good parts and ignore the rest, same as with any other game. The emotions in the voice of Grieving Mother (voice actress Tara Platt) alone made Pillars of Eternity a game that can write it's marks deep. Many great voice acting in that game, and though it's a sad story, the game is thought provoking and can teach more about life and choices, than usually 4 years of school does.

tl;dr -- never follow my recommendations or reviews, or those of anyone: see for yourself, you need to taste it, feel it, because you may miss out really amazing moments if you just follow others; what marks you is unique to you
I agree that Best RPG for modders is Skyrim. It was the same with Oblivion, thousands of mods. But these games also have the problem that they force the players to make mods: it is impossible to marry Serana in the game (I hate the developers of Skyrim for this), it is impossible to join the necromancer guild, and so on.
I want the mods in BG3 to add things like "play as Mind Flayer" and not things Larian should add!

I agree that Dragon Age: origins is the kind of game Larian needs to follow (not Original Sin 2). It was a really great game, every fan of this game is likely to try BG3. I can't remember any of the flaws of Dragon Age Origin, other than the fact that the game didn't react to the fact that I was a blood mage.
Because Bioware can't do it! Dragon Age 2 = complete sh*t, made just to make money, I won't even comment, everything is clear there. The Inquisition was very promising, they made great progress with game design (I liked it, game design is the strongest side of the Inquisition, but this is where the strengths of the Inquisition end), but spoiled the role-playing (not completely, there were interesting quests such as the reception from Empress Celina) and made just disgusting companions. I played as an elf magician, and I had a choice for romance - Cassandra, which is not about magic at all, and too masculine. And Josephine, who is not even a companion. Why couldn't they do something like Leliana and Morrigan again?
But the game has a full range of LGBT relationships, I have nothing against it, but in this game LGBT relationships are written better than heterosexual ones, and there is a lot of such content. Damn.

Larian is doing great, except that they didn't add Minthara as a companion, I'm happy with everything. Evil root problems are obvious = early access problems and will be fixed.

Fallout 3 was terrible in terms of role-playing a bad role (the worst game to play for evil or neutrality), but they were fixed in Fallout 4 and I have no complaints about them.

Regarding Mass Effect, the second and third parts are not bad. I liked Andromeda despite the bad reviews, but to be honest, until I played for 5-10 hours I thought this game sucked and I was bored. After that, it became interesting, and I changed my mind. Yes, it's definitely not 10, but quite a decent game that was a pleasure to play. With Baldurs Gate, it becomes clear that everything is fine with the game from the first minutes, when we enjoy the music in the character editor, when we extract Us from the skull, Larian is great in this regard.

I also want to mention the Gothic and Fable series. Those were good games ... 20 years ago. Their biggest problem was that they failed to understand that the requirements for games were changing, and players needed something more. Sadly, I think these series are dead.
Fable could make a role-playing game without a rigid linear plot, with companions, with different romantic interests (well written), with the ability to gain strength and power gradually depending on their actions, to make many decisions and choices. But, Fable 3 didn't, and I highly doubt that Fable 4 will fix the mistakes.

I hope Larian will listen to our feedback and move in the right direction. If BG3 turns out to be successful and they start developing DLC, BG4 (immediately, not after 2-5-10 years) and the parallel new Neverwinter Nights, while the quality will be the same - I will boldly call Larian the best RPG studio in the world


Eh definitely disagree on Obsidian, Witcher, and Owlcat.
I always loved Obsidian stories and world way more than I did Bioware's, especially after Bioware went downhill with the Dragon Age series and the travesty that is Anthem. At least Obsidian is still trying to make games they are passionate about. Owlcat I really don't see what people like about it, but thats again purely personal opinion. Witcher 3 is not even an RPG... Its a beautiful game with a cool main character and story, but you are playing Geralt of Rivia, the white witcher dude who has a LI he was destined to be with (especially if you read the books), and a daughter figure that he loves and protects (also from the books). Not much to RP here.

Skyrim might be great mod-wise, but I always preferred Morrowind for the story, the lore, and the world-building.
Obisidian games really stand out. I mean their dialogue writing has never ceased to disapoint - their persuasion for non-combat approach has always been a dynmaic combination of your skill checks AND the options you choose, it just fits roleplay so perfectly imho.
Originally Posted by LoneSky
Obsidian creations is among the best, though one have to pick the good parts and ignore the rest, same as with any other game. The emotions in the voice of Grieving Mother (voice actress Tara Platt) alone made Pillars of Eternity a game that can write it's marks deep. Many great voice acting in that game, and though it's a sad story, the game is thought provoking and can teach more about life and choices, than usually 4 years of school does.

tl;dr -- never follow my recommendations or reviews, or those of anyone: see for yourself, you need to taste it, feel it, because you may miss out really amazing moments if you just follow others; what marks you is unique to you



The Rsising Tide quest from White March DLC had some depth too, made me thinking.
Obsidian is not overrated. Their track record is way better than Bioware's during the 2010's. In fact, it might be the best one in the business for the decade: New Vegas, PoE, PoE2, Tyranny, Stick of Truth.

Bioware: Mass Effect 2, DA: Inquisition.
Originally Posted by Abits
TL-DR - here you can discuss great RPGs of the past, make recommendations, and share your opinion about which is the best.

We've been beating around the bush for too long. It's time to talk about the greatest RPGs of all times, what made them great, and what can Baldur's Gate 3 learn from them. I want this thread to be a place where you can discuss, argue (nicely), and share your thoughts about the RPG video games we had up until this point. Everything that came before Baldur's Gate 3 is fair game. If you think a game belongs here, it belongs here.

To kickstart this discussion, I made a list of categories, each one about a game and/or company that did something great for the genre. You are welcome to fill out these categories with your favorites, create some of your own, or write anything else you'd like. I do recommend keeping Baldur's Gate 3 in mind, A because after all, it is a Baldur's Gate 3 forum, and B because I think another look at these games and their design might prove useful in improving Baldur's Gate 3.

My list:

Best RPG studio of all times: Bioware

Some would say it's predictable, some would say "wake up the king is dead", and some would consider both statements to be true. But personally, I can't deny that so much of the joy I felt when playing video games comes from playing one Bioware or another. This company has been around for a while, and for a while they were unbeatable. In their prime, they always tried to innovate and change the way they do things, but the core storytelling and character designs remained the same. Some would say Bioware fall stems from teaming up with the devil, I mean EA (sorry devil, even you are not that bad), but I think Bioware tried too much to casualize their games, which led to their downfall. I really hope they'll come back though, but on the other hand, I think there are others that keep their old flame burning (namely CD project, but time will tell).

Best RPG game series: Baldur's Gate

Another obvious choice, but a well-deserved one. The original Baldur's Gate was quite Unique (or so I've been told, I didn't play it until much later). A lot of exploration in a beautiful world map, nice quest, and cool story. The DND systems in place provided a lot of tactical fun, and it had a great sense of humor. The Second Baldur's Gate was an undisputed (as much as these things can be) masterpiece. This series shows how to take something great, and improve upon it without throwing out anything. The second game had a great story, amazing characters, and even better combat mechanics. This is the perfect example of how to create a good RPG series, take what was good and improve all the rough parts. Bioware made similar things with Mass Effect 2 (which is still considered to be the best in that series) but the Baldur's Gate will always be a shining beacon of a good game design advancement.

Best RPG for modders The Elder Scrolls: Skyrim

Skyrim is a great and fun game. It has a vast and inviting world, some crazy fun side quest, and cool mechanics. But to be honest, even in the Elder Scroll series alone, there are other games who did all of these things much better. No, Skyrim's greatest asset is its modding community. with (as of now) 65 thousand mods, this game shelf life seems almost infinite. You can find almost any kind of mod you want in Skyrim, from some cosmetic enhancements to amazing fully voice acted quests. Even after almost a decade, this game produces something like 80 mods in a week, and there are many YouTube channels whose sole purpose is to find the best of the best. If mods are your thing, don't miss this one

Best RPG for normies:The Witcher 3

I'll say it upfront - I don't care about combat mechanics. Almost don't care at all. If the combat mechanics are really terrible I might not replay a game (hence why I never could finish a second playthrough of the first Witcher game), but if the story is good enough, I really don't mind. The Witcher 3's combat mechanics are fine IMO. They are fun enough. But since they are action game combat mechanics, I saw many people who say this game (along with Skyrim I suppose) shouldn't be part of best RPGs lists. And I think it's wrong. I think the most important aspects of every RPG (even a tabletop one, but I don't have much experience there so feel free to correct me) are the story, the characters, the world, and the freedom to choose your path. Many video games struggle to achieve all of these together. Skyrim put more emphasis on the world, Mass Effect 2 more on the story and characters, but in very rare cases you get a game that can pull off all of them. and I think the Witcher 3 is such a game. It has its flaws, sure, but it is still a great RPG, and (warning controversial opinion) this game is as much a BG successor as any other CRpg wannabe. You need more than an isometric point of view and RTwP to create something as unique as BG2.

Most Overrated Studio: Obsidian

Now hold on a second, I want to make it clear - if you love Obsidian that's perfectly fine, and most likely that at least in this forum you are the majority (hence the word overrated). I'm not trying to just put Obsidian down, only to talk about my completely subjective opinion of this studio. Feel free to disagree.

If we would say the RPG industry is a classroom, Obsidian always struck me as the edgy wisecracking kid who sits in the back and talk down his teachers. Although they have their formula (which is very different from Bioware's, nut formula all the same), they tend to try to do new things with their stories. I think I like the ideas of most of their games' stories are great and thought provoking, they usually come in a very mediocre package. Very messy but slow start, uninteresting characters, and a sense of humour I don't particularly like made some of their games a real slog for me, and although I played many Obsidian game, I only finished a select few.

Most Promising Studio: Owelcat

I was really struggling with this one. My default answer here is still CD Project Red, a small Polish studio that it's last title made them a huge success in the gaming world and not only in the RPG fandom. And if you're cool with first person shooters, I honestly think it still is. But unfortunately for me, I simply loath this game perspective, and avoided many (supposedly) great games because of it.

For me, another great promise is Owlcat. They have only one game under their belt, but what a game it is. Pathfinder: Kingmaker not only drawed from the mythology of RPG games design, but also found a new and cool ways to innovate and mix up the old formula. Making your main character a lord of small province and having the leadership being a major part of your experience, was a great addition. Other games tried to do similar things, but no one did as successfully. Other than that, Kingmaker has a solid story, very interesting companions, and deep dnd game mechanics. It is rough around the edges, but it shows great promise. I can't wait to see what owlbear will do next.

The one Game that has Everything Baldur's Gate 3 needs to become a legend: Dragon Age: origins

Dragon Age Origins doesn't have the best story or characters. It's combat is fine, nothing to write home about. But I think that if there was one game that showed how important execution is, it was this one. This game has a lot of flags. You could start as a human noble or a dwarven outcast, but either way not only the world respond to you, who you are has a direct influence on the direction the story will go to. The best example is the Landsmeet scene. Without spoilers, I'll only say that scene has many different outcomes many variables and a lot of dialogue lines that shift and change according to the choices you made previously and during it, and everything works and makes sense. This scene also shows that in order to write a western RPG with multiple choice, good story and characters are not always enough. You need attention to details, and to foresee what choices the player might make, and accommodate them. If you wish to see an example of how it is done wrong, give Divinity Original Sin 2 another try.

My favourite game of all times: Star Wars: Knights of the old Republic

I guess you always remember your first. The first western RPG I played is objectively a very good game. It has an interesting star Wars story, great characters, and a fine combat system that's based on a streamlined version of dnd. It is kinda binary in its choices (light side dark side) and is probably unplayable bon most modern machines, but what can I say, love it. And that twist. Damn.



Ya, maybe put divine divinity on the list, you know the game larian did in 2002 & every game that followed. Imagine actually having respect for the company.
Best modders were for fallout 4 imo. The game was turned from trash to gold though mods whereas Skyrim was pretty good to start with.

Best studio is difficult because the owners changed and turned them into mass effect - my face is tired and dragonage - sexual assault. Dragonage origins was a great game. Mass effect 1&2 were great games but are all cancelled out by the crap they released after.

I hated PoE, and PoE2 just couldn't get into it as the characters and they bored me to death. Tyranny was the length of a game demo, was really getting into it before I completed it after what figured was the prologue.

Bethedsa is the most overrated game publisher.

I cannot compare games from 1987 to games from 2020 tbh. I loved the original "Syndicate" on the Amiga, loved Zelda on the NES and SNES, loved FF7 on the playstation 1, loved BG1&2 on the PC, Fallout 1&2 beat BG, ToEE on the PC was really underrated, SWKOTR1&2, Vampire the Masquerade, vampire the masquerade bloodlines, resident evil 1&2........

Best RPG of all time? Witcher 3 hands down. No game comes close, combat sucked a bit but cinimatically, voice acting, animations, graphics and story telling set a new standard in gaming.

Best gaming studio of all time? CD project red for the Witcher series alone. No SJW shit, no forced agendas, no nickle and dime microtransactions.

smile
To me the most fun character building was in Arcanum: of Steamworks and Magick Obscura. The character combinations you could come up with were endless. Definitely a game that deserves a reboot but at the same time I'd be scared that whoever tried it would screw up or simplify the character building mechanic.
Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Originally Posted by kanisatha
I agree with some of your choices and not others. But special mention of so very strongly disagree on Obsidian. For me, Obsidian is the best cRPG studio currently out there.

Obsidian did a lot of masterpieces like kotor 2 and FNV but also did a lot of AWFUL things like dungeon siege 3 which is awful like diablo 3.

You mean they did what they needed to do to pay their bills?

As @Wormerine correctly points out, Obsidian has a tremendously wide-ranging portfolio demonstrating that they are not a one-trick pony and can make so many different types of games, from Dungeon Siege and Armored Warfare to the Pathfinder card game and Grounded.
Adding another hot take to the pile.

Best RPG studio: Larian Studios (I've been a huge fan since Divine Divinity.)

Best RPG game series: The Elder Scrolls. (The evolution of the series has been awe-inspiring.)

Best RPG for modders: Fallout: New Vegas. (So. Many. Improvements.)

Best RPG for normies: Modern JRPGs in general. (Perfect for the everyday mouthbreather.)

Most Overrated Studio: Modern-day Square Enix. (Oh how far they've fallen.)

Most Promising Studio: Spiders. (They've consistently improved upon their games and they're almost AAA now.)

The one Game that has Everything Baldur's Gate 3 needs to become a legend: I don't think I understand this very specific question, but BG3 could stand to pull a few things from Pathfinder: Kingmaker.

All-time Favorite: Mother 2 (EarthBound, for the uninitiated.)
Originally Posted by Abits
Originally Posted by Verte
How it is even possible to choose one D: I have sentiment for adventure in Planescape: Torment but judging by playtime then DOS2 + Neverwinter mmo for few years.

That's the beauty of this topic, you don't have to you can choose as many as you want.

Does anyone here remember Alpha Protocol?


Alpha Protocol is one of my favorite games of all time!
Originally Posted by fallenj

Ya, maybe put divine divinity on the list, you know the game larian did in 2002 & every game that followed. Imagine actually having respect for the company.

I am yet to play pre-D:OS but there actually is a trophy I can give to Larian.

Best Coop RPG:
Divinity:Original Sin (didn’t play D:OS2 in coop so can’t comment on that) 10 hours I played of it in coop, were my best coop hours ever.
Don't forget that Obsidian have made Neverwinter Nights 2 and its expensions. The main campaign has its flaws and bugs but overall is very well done, I think, in terms of writing and characters. Also, Mask of the Betrayer is up there with the best RPGs ever, DnD or not. I think its high level setting works better than Baldur's Gate's. So, I don't think Obsidian is overated.
Originally Posted by Danielbda
Obsidian is not overrated. Their track record is way better than Bioware's during the 2010's. In fact, it might be the best one in the business for the decade: New Vegas, PoE, PoE2, Tyranny, Stick of Truth.

Bioware: Mass Effect 2, DA: Inquisition.


Tyranny is not good. Has good story but the mechanics is completely disconnected from the lore.

Obsidian also nerfed casters really hard on nwn2 and made awful games like Dungeons Siege 3.

Being better than post EA BioWare is not that a big thing.
Originally Posted by Gt27mustang
Don't forget that Obsidian have made Neverwinter Nights 2 and its expensions. The main campaign has its flaws and bugs but overall is very well done, I think, in terms of writing and characters. Also, Mask of the Betrayer is up there with the best RPGs ever, DnD or not. I think its high level setting works better than Baldur's Gate's. So, I don't think Obsidian is overated.

Yup, NwN2 (and especially MotB) is second only to BG1 among the old D&D games for me. Love it more than BG2.
I don't follow studios...so, I'm just going to list some of the NPCs that had the most influence or which I have the most persistent fond memories of.

The Gold Box games, Pool of Radiance, Curse of the Azure Bonds, Secret of the Silver Blades, Pool of Darkness...played all of those...played a Gateway and Treasures of the Savage Frontier and Champions of Krynn too. The gameplay has really not aged well, though Gold Box Companion adds a lot of QoL upgrades that make it good.

Vampire:The Masquerade - Bloodlines, very cool game.

City of Heroes - From Third Wave Beta to shutdown, great superhero MMO, easy to play as an entirely solo experience, generally only played with family and other friends or just completely solo. (yes, there's private servers out there, I am playing on some of them.)

The Secret World/Secret World Legends = Let's punch Cthulhu in the face! Yeah! Get to be a nigh-immortal superhero...sort of like being in a grimmer version of City of Heroes with worse travel options...but still cool stories and again, very solo-able (to a point)

Neverwinter Nights and Neverwinter Nights 2 - I've replayed the original campaigns of these so many times. I prefer NWN2 because it has more character build options, but they're both great.

Sword Coast Legends - I know a lot of people dislike this as a D&D game and it isn't a D&D game even if it is a Faerun game. I enjoyed the story and the characters...and some of the bosses were quite clever. I wish it had done better so we could have seen more expansions on it.

Lord of the Rings Online - Such a weird mix of nerding out and nerd rage....amazing game for any Tolkien-fan...even when you're complaining about the small odd things they got wrong.

Vampire: The Masquerade - Redemption - Also a very cool game: Pissed off Cristoff.

Pillars of Eternity - I love the reputation systems and it's a wonderfully pleasant dark fantasy storyline.

Shadowrun Returns / Shadowrun: Dragonfall / Shadowrun: Hong Kong - All the three of the recent Shadowrun games are good, but Shadowrun: Hong Kong just is amazing. So good. Though I have to give real props to whoever wrote/designed the companion characters in Dragonfall....oh man, Glory struck a nerve in a wonderfully emotion stirring way.

Grim Dawn / Titan Quest - Like with LotRO, Titan Quest is great for a mythology nerd....though it is a LOT more "got it wrong" than in LotRO. Grim Dawn is basically the same system of Titan Quest with some severe upgrades and an entire extra layer to the characters builds that makes for some wonderful replayability.
You guys go on I just wanna say I'm so excited to find other fans of Alpha Protocol. do you remember this foxy lady?
[Linked Image]
DDO, lotro, sword coast legends, ice wind dale 1&2. Most of DAO, less of DA2 .....
Don’t hate on the console gamer - Final Fantasy 7, balders gate dark alliance 1&2 - I know they are action rpgs but they were bloody brilliant for a ps2 game and were D&D.

I have a long list of rpgs that I just could never finish...something else always came along ...it’s a gamers thing I reckon ..lol.
We should talk about Jrpgs as well, lots of gems there. Also, some people have mentioned DA2 which I also think deserves a serious discussion. Personally I think it is a really underated game. Very rough around the edges, but has so much cool and unique stuff about it.
This reminds me that I've yet to play Alpha Protocol, which sadly isn't available digitally anymore due to licensing rights (music?) frown Dragon Age 2, not so much. The demo gave me early 1990s multimedia/interactive movie vibes. It was like combat, cutscene, combat, cutscene, combat, cutscene -- there wasn't even any exploration or anything in between. It was also the game that made Brent Knowles quit Bioware http://blog.brentknowles.com/2010/0...summer-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-2398 (in general, anybody "hoping" for them to stage a "comeback" is mislead -- it's people making games, not company logos. The amount of people that have quit there is quite something, including the owners. Doesn't mean they'd never make a decent game again, however, they will be of a different mold). Speaking of which, Obsidian have lost talent too (Fenstermaker, Ziets, Avellone, et all).

That's why looking at Bioware, which I haven't followed in ages, I'm more curious about the new studio set up by James Ohlen, a major force behind the original BGs etc. He's set up camp at Archetype together with ex-Bioware staff such as Chad Robertson and their former writer Drew Karpyshyn likewise. That's what Karpyshyn had to say about it.

Quote
I’ve been in the video game industry for twenty years now. When I started at BioWare, everything was fresh and exciting. It was a dream job – talented people working together to create epic games like Baldur’s Gate, KOTOR, Mass Effect and Dragon Age. But as we grew and became more successful, things changed. We became more corporate. We were less able to make what we loved, and the teams were pushed to create games based on market research rather than our creative instincts and passions. My dream job became just a job, and I lost the enthusiasm and excitement I once had.

But with Archetype, my passion has been rekindled. The feel in the studio reminds me of my early days at BioWare


http://drewkarpyshyn.com/c/?p=1089
Has anyone yet mentioned the game "Adventure" for the original Atari game console?

That game had all the critical story elements: a magic sword, castles, dragons, the holy grail, and a flying bird of chaos. And it had a secret room. It was quite a step up from "Pong", and it paved the way for the emerging CRPG market.

Dialog was terrible, though.
Best RPG studio of all times: Bioware

Best RPG game series: Dragon Age

Best RPG for modders: Neverwinter Nights

Best RPG for normies: what is a normie?

Most Overrated Studio: Bethesda

Most Promising Studio: Larian

The one Game that has Everything Baldur's Gate 3 needs to become a legend: Neverwinter Nights

My favourite game of all times: Neverwinter Nights / DO:S2 (not really an RPG of old)


About Bethesda:
I always WANT to love Fall Out and Elder Scrolls. But I just can't. 3 hours in these games start to bore me.

About Neverwinter Nights (1):
Surely, it's base campaign was dull as hell. But it's game design program and DM client where the best of the best, far beyond what DO:S2 gave us. And very user friendly too. NWN still is the ultimate game for running a classic table top 3th Edition D&D game on a computer.





Originally Posted by Sven_
This reminds me that I've yet to play Alpha Protocol, which sadly isn't available digitally anymore due to licensing rights (music?) frown

Yup. Luckily for me I bought it before that. I think you will be justified in this case on acquiring the game by means available to you.

Alpha Protocol is such a broken mess, but such an interesting broken mess. Only game I raged uninstalled, only to watch download bar 10 minutes later. I really would like to see the sequel. AP has so many great ideas, but it's held back by so many broken things.
I really enjoyed alpha protocol's settings.

About Bethesda - screw them. The only reason their game are good are because of mods
The witcher 3 best rpg for normies? What normies? It's simply the best RPG ever made. Period.
Each of its biggest side quests could be a game of their own. Visually, musically, writing, characters, everything in the witcher 3 is better than anyting Bioware has ever produced. For me, it's not even a game, it's an artistic masterpiece.

And this is, by far, the best game I ever played in my entire life of gamer, which started way back when PC wasn't even a thing.
>Withcer 3
>Best RPG
witcher bareley an RPG to begin with.
If witcher is an RPG then so is Far Cry.

>Best RPG for normies
definitly. Its how i got my girlfriend into video games. its heavy on the narrative, very much a movie game but iwth enaugh gameplay to not keep you falling asleep, graphics are fantastic and so is the voice acting.
Combat is babys first Arkham Asylum clone but its executed well and makes you look awsome while only pressing one button repeatedly.

For what its worth, you gotta commend withcer for making a pants on head stupid story somehow work through excellent execution and acting.

>better than anything bioware ever produced
on a second note. you might aswell be right on that one...
Bioware doesnt deserve the praise it gets
Originally Posted by Nyanko
The witcher 3 best rpg for normies? What normies? It's simply the best RPG ever made. Period.
Each of its biggest side quests could be a game of their own. Visually, musically, writing, characters, everything in the witcher 3 is better than anyting Bioware has ever produced. For me, it's not even a game, it's an artistic masterpiece.

And this is, by far, the best game I ever played in my entire life of gamer, which started way back when PC wasn't even a thing.


Some people like to play blank page hero. ;-)

About action RPG I would like to add first Dark Souls and Bloodborne. Atmosphere, unusual storytelling, good combat and NPCs that aren't our nannies, best bossfight soundtracks, enemies from the nightmares. Aaand visual gothic magnificence of Yharnam.
Dragon's Dogma DA would be my honorable mention because of fun factor of spell syncing maelstroms/BBI. Pawn mechanic gives some freshness.
Best modern(ish) RPG:
- Dragon Age:Origins

Best classic RPG:
- some rpgs I really like a lot for the story or companions but they do have some serious flaws; vtm:bloodlines 1 (best dialogue system ever imo), nwn2: OC/MotB/MoW (I love D&D 3.5 what can I say), nwn 1: HotU (story), BG2 (evil path felt incomplete but otherwise epic).

Best RPG back in the day:
- Ultima 7 (don't think I could play it nowadays, but played it to bits back then)
- BG1 (again, I can't play this anymore even though I was crazy about it back then)

Best casual RPG:
- fallout:NV / elder scrolls: morrowind/oblivion/skyrim, DA3, path of exile, for when I don't want to think too much and just kill stuff and loot for w/e reason.

RPGs I will most likely never play:
- Witcher series, Planescape Torment. I want to play my character not someone else's. Most definitely not a guy.

RPGs I won't be able to play:
- Cyberpunk 2077, Bloodlines 2. First person perspective. Motion sickness is a thing.

RPGs I played but hated with a vengeance:
- I'm looking at you Dragon Age 2. Press a button and something awesome happens? Just no.

RPGs I think are meh:
- Pillars of Eternity 1-2, Divinity OS 1-2. I backed them but the story and companions never really clicked with me. Combat systems were annoying.
Originally Posted by Nyanko
The witcher 3 best rpg for normies? What normies? It's simply the best RPG ever made. Period.
Each of its biggest side quests could be a game of their own. Visually, musically, writing, characters, everything in the witcher 3 is better than anyting Bioware has ever produced. For me, it's not even a game, it's an artistic masterpiece.

And this is, by far, the best game I ever played in my entire life of gamer, which started way back when PC wasn't even a thing.

It can't be the best of all time with bad combat, and combat taking a huge part in it. It is a HUGE flaw.
Best RPG studio of all times: Bioware


Best RPG game series: Baldur's Gate


Best RPG for modders: Skyrim


Best modern RPG: Pillars of Eternity 2


Best RPG for normies: Skyrim


Most Overrated Studio: CD Projekt Red (one great game only)


Most Promising Studio: Obsidian
For all you Alpha Protocol fans, I have a good feeling that MS will end up putting in a strong bid to buy its IP so that a sequel can be made. I personally never played the game because I don't care for shooters, but from all that I've read about it I would agree it's a really good game.
Originally Posted by Verte
Dragon's Dogma DA would be my honorable mention because of fun factor of spell syncing maelstroms/BBI. Pawn mechanic gives some freshness.

That first experience of hiring a prawn who liked to cast maelstrom. "Argh, what just happened?!! D:"
Originally Posted by Nyanko
The witcher 3 best rpg for normies? What normies? It's simply the best RPG ever made. Period.
Each of its biggest side quests could be a game of their own. Visually, musically, writing, characters, everything in the witcher 3 is better than anyting Bioware has ever produced. For me, it's not even a game, it's an artistic masterpiece.

And this is, by far, the best game I ever played in my entire life of gamer, which started way back when PC wasn't even a thing.


I love the artistic side of W3. This is something that I wish Larian would put into BG3.

But CDPR produced W3 because Bioware pretty much elevated the CRPG genre decades before. CDPR started by publishing Baldur's Gate in Polland. And many of the foundations of W3 comes from prior Bioware games.

Originally Posted by Thrythlind
Vampire: The Masquerade - Redemption - Also a very cool game: Pissed off Cristoff.



Wow. Nice to see somebody that knows this game. Loved it back in the day.
Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Tyranny is not good. Has good story but the mechanics is completely disconnected from the lore.



Could not disagree more. I love Tyranny, it's one of my favorites. To me, it's the best of the "new renaissance" batch of CRPGs. (But probably to be dethroned by BG3.)
Originally Posted by Thrythlind
I don't follow studios...so, I'm just going to list some of the NPCs that had the most influence or which I have the most persistent fond memories of.

The Gold Box games, Pool of Radiance, Curse of the Azure Bonds, Secret of the Silver Blades, Pool of Darkness...played all of those...played a Gateway and Treasures of the Savage Frontier and Champions of Krynn too. The gameplay has really not aged well, though Gold Box Companion adds a lot of QoL upgrades that make it good.

Vampire:The Masquerade - Bloodlines, very cool game.

City of Heroes - From Third Wave Beta to shutdown, great superhero MMO, easy to play as an entirely solo experience, generally only played with family and other friends or just completely solo. (yes, there's private servers out there, I am playing on some of them.)

The Secret World/Secret World Legends = Let's punch Cthulhu in the face! Yeah! Get to be a nigh-immortal superhero...sort of like being in a grimmer version of City of Heroes with worse travel options...but still cool stories and again, very solo-able (to a point)

Neverwinter Nights and Neverwinter Nights 2 - I've replayed the original campaigns of these so many times. I prefer NWN2 because it has more character build options, but they're both great.

Sword Coast Legends - I know a lot of people dislike this as a D&D game and it isn't a D&D game even if it is a Faerun game. I enjoyed the story and the characters...and some of the bosses were quite clever. I wish it had done better so we could have seen more expansions on it.

Lord of the Rings Online - Such a weird mix of nerding out and nerd rage....amazing game for any Tolkien-fan...even when you're complaining about the small odd things they got wrong.

Vampire: The Masquerade - Redemption - Also a very cool game: Pissed off Cristoff.

Pillars of Eternity - I love the reputation systems and it's a wonderfully pleasant dark fantasy storyline.

Shadowrun Returns / Shadowrun: Dragonfall / Shadowrun: Hong Kong - All the three of the recent Shadowrun games are good, but Shadowrun: Hong Kong just is amazing. So good. Though I have to give real props to whoever wrote/designed the companion characters in Dragonfall....oh man, Glory struck a nerve in a wonderfully emotion stirring way.

Grim Dawn / Titan Quest - Like with LotRO, Titan Quest is great for a mythology nerd....though it is a LOT more "got it wrong" than in LotRO. Grim Dawn is basically the same system of Titan Quest with some severe upgrades and an entire extra layer to the characters builds that makes for some wonderful replayability.



Great list! I've played and loved most of these as well. Gold Box games were my favorites as a kid, great memories there. Loved both NWN games and their expansions to pieces. I even liked Sword Coast Legends and was sad that it failed so hard. (I made an adventure for it called "Fifty Shades of Thay", now lost to time.)

And oh man, the Shadowrun trilogy are SO GOOD. They get better with each installment, though Dragonfall is still probably my favorite overall just due to thematic reasons. And Glory . . . one of the most memorable companion characters from any RPG, for me. Plus I'm just a huge Shadowrun fan, I played an awful lot of the tabletop game back when I was in my teens and early twenties, big nostalgia.
Originally Posted by Abits
You guys go on I just wanna say I'm so excited to find other fans of Alpha Protocol. do you remember this foxy lady?
[Linked Image]




Scarlet Lake! She was so cool, even more so when you find out her secret. I loved her and Stephen Heck. So many great characters in that game.
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Could not disagree more. I love Tyranny, it's one of my favorites. To me, it's the best of the "new renaissance" batch of CRPGs. (But probably to be dethroned by BG3.)

As much as I griped at the time about the very static-feeling isometric setting (which is purely a matter of taste rather than any claim of objectivity) I loved the game. It went a bit "yeah whatevs, imma finish up now" near the end but overall I enjoyed it a lot.
Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Could not disagree more. I love Tyranny, it's one of my favorites. To me, it's the best of the "new renaissance" batch of CRPGs. (But probably to be dethroned by BG3.)

As much as I griped at the time about the very static-feeling isometric setting (which is purely a matter of taste rather than any claim of objectivity) I loved the game. It went a bit "yeah whatevs, imma finish up now" near the end but overall I enjoyed it a lot.


I feel like it was very much designed to have a sequel, or at least an expansion. But then, due to money or whatever, it never got to have one. Sad. It had such an original setting compared to most RPGs, and I liked the companions a lot, and the magic system was really interesting and unique.
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Could not disagree more. I love Tyranny, it's one of my favorites. To me, it's the best of the "new renaissance" batch of CRPGs. (But probably to be dethroned by BG3.)

As much as I griped at the time about the very static-feeling isometric setting (which is purely a matter of taste rather than any claim of objectivity) I loved the game. It went a bit "yeah whatevs, imma finish up now" near the end but overall I enjoyed it a lot.


I feel like it was very much designed to have a sequel, or at least an expansion. But then, due to money or whatever, it never got to have one. Sad. It had such an original setting compared to most RPGs, and I liked the companions a lot, and the magic system was really interesting and unique.


I was really enjoying Tyranny then it ended after about 9 hours of my first playthough. I was like eh? Like so many other games it had so much potential but in my opinion the entire game should have been act 1 of 4. I think I read the department was defunded before they had chance to complete the game so they ended it as best they could. I loved the dark setting and the characters were far more interesting than in PoE.
for one, i just want to say I absolutely loved SCL, now can someone please tell me where i can find NWN 2??? Ive looked on steam and to no avail... I haven't played tyranny but want to, and also is it worth it graphics wise to try shadowrun???
Originally Posted by DayVlad73
for one, i just want to say I absolutely loved SCL, now can someone please tell me where i can find NWN 2??? Ive looked on steam and to no avail... I haven't played tyranny but want to, and also is it worth it graphics wise to try shadowrun???



It was removed from Steam a few years back, have you tried GoG? NWN2 Complete
Originally Posted by Moirnelithe

Best classic RPG:
- some rpgs I really like a lot for the story or companions but they do have some serious flaws; vtm:bloodlines 1 (best dialogue system ever imo), nwn2: OC/MotB/MoW (I love D&D 3.5 what can I say), nwn 1: HotU (story), BG2 (evil path felt incomplete but otherwise epic).


I was thoroughly disappointed with MoW, but otherwise, I loved NWN2 and NWN1...definitely VTM:Bloodlines

Originally Posted by Moirnelithe

Best RPG back in the day:
- Ultima 7 (don't think I could play it nowadays, but played it to bits back then)
- BG1 (again, I can't play this anymore even though I was crazy about it back then)


You might want to look toward a YouTube stream by the name of Kikoskia. He did Ultima 7. Serpent Isle, Ultima 1, Ultima Underworld, Ultima Underworld 2, Ultima 8, and (recently) Ultima 9. He also did NWN, NWN: SoU, NWN: HoU, Lands of Lore (twice), Lands of Lore 2, Lands of Lore 3, Anvil of Dawn, BG1, and BG2.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_ADhkBQFudvyhdpsBJJvYw

He does a lot of older games and RPGs, actually. Very pleasant, laid back man, generally doesn't have a cross-word to say about games he plays (won't LP games he won't enjoy), but he is lovingly heavy on lampshade hanging.

Originally Posted by Moirnelithe

RPGs I won't be able to play:
- Cyberpunk 2077, Bloodlines 2. First person perspective. Motion sickness is a thing.

RPGs I think are meh:
- Pillars of Eternity 1-2, Divinity OS 1-2. I backed them but the story and companions never really clicked with me. Combat systems were annoying.



Ouch on Cyberpunk and Bloodlines. As to the others yeah, combat was the most annoying part of Pillars. RTWP is something I'm fine with in some games, but not so much in an RPG. I recently played about an hour or two of Divinity 2 because people kept saying how this game is just that over again, but to be honest, I don't much feel it beyond a love for starting people on failing ships and beaches....In any case, Divinity didn't hold me the way BG3 has. It's very much "okay, this is a thing that exists". I think the whole "society believes super powers are evil / super powers are actually evil" story hook turned me off immediately.
Originally Posted by Soul-Scar

I was really enjoying Tyranny then it ended after about 9 hours of my first playthough. I was like eh? Like so many other games it had so much potential but in my opinion the entire game should have been act 1 of 4. I think I read the department was defunded before they had chance to complete the game so they ended it as best they could. I loved the dark setting and the characters were far more interesting than in PoE.


Wow, 9 hours? My first playthough took literally 10 times as long as yours. I clocked in around 90 hours for Tyranny. Of course, the reasons for this are clear in my playthrough on YouTube, in which I (badly) voice acted every piece of dialogue from every character. I also have a very slow playstyle in general. I mean, my BG3 first playthrough was 103 hours, and I was NOT streaming/recording.

Tyranny Playlist:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaN_s1bC7W5xpGp8n8u7e5rj5ABiQgepu
Originally Posted by DayVlad73
for one, i just want to say I absolutely loved SCL, now can someone please tell me where i can find NWN 2??? Ive looked on steam and to no avail... I haven't played tyranny but want to, and also is it worth it graphics wise to try shadowrun???


Shadowrun Returns is good (gets a couple of things with certain Lore very wrong, but it's tolerable)

Shadowrun: Dragonfall is great, lots of improvements to cyberwear and companion mechanics. Much better story.

Shadowrun: Hong Kong .... Oh yes, yes it is worth it. Huge improvements to cyberware. Thin orc models. It is very conversation intensive and I recommend digging into all the conversations because I suspect there are some triggers in there for what endings you're able to get and I can't narrow in on what I think are the important NPC conversations without spoiling and there's some fun bits all over even if not all of them are plot relevant.

Maybe eventually we'll see a Shadowrun CRPG that pushes time to when subraces like oni and people like changelings start making an appearance. I'd love to play my shintoist oni who wanted to be idol singer.
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Wow, 9 hours? My first playthough took literally 10 times as long as yours. I clocked in around 90 hours for Tyranny. Of course, the reasons for this are clear in my playthrough on YouTube, in which I (badly) voice acted every piece of dialogue from every character. I also have a very slow playstyle in general. I mean, my BG3 first playthrough was 103 hours, and I was NOT streaming/recording.

Similar to me (well, except without The Recording of Stuff). I prefer to take my time and explore, and re-explore to see if I've missed anything or just because I feel like it and want to look at the scenery, and to generally faff about and go on random tangents and stuff. Speed-runs are a real anathema to my play-style; as is the risk of doing quests in the wrong order...
Originally Posted by Moirnelithe
Originally Posted by DayVlad73
for one, i just want to say I absolutely loved SCL, now can someone please tell me where i can find NWN 2??? Ive looked on steam and to no avail... I haven't played tyranny but want to, and also is it worth it graphics wise to try shadowrun???



It was removed from Steam a few years back, have you tried GoG? NWN2 Complete


yo why was it removed from steam???








/
Originally Posted by DayVlad73
Originally Posted by Moirnelithe
Originally Posted by DayVlad73
for one, i just want to say I absolutely loved SCL, now can someone please tell me where i can find NWN 2??? Ive looked on steam and to no avail... I haven't played tyranny but want to, and also is it worth it graphics wise to try shadowrun???



It was removed from Steam a few years back, have you tried GoG? NWN2 Complete


yo why was it removed from steam???








/



Probably licensing reasons. That's why Fable 2 isn't on steam despite Fable and Fable 3 are there.
Originally Posted by vometia

Similar to me (well, except without The Recording of Stuff). I prefer to take my time and explore, and re-explore to see if I've missed anything or just because I feel like it and want to look at the scenery, and to generally faff about and go on random tangents and stuff. Speed-runs are a real anathema to my play-style; as is the risk of doing quests in the wrong order...



Yeah, this. You can't JUST talk to every NPC. You have to talk to every NPC multiple times, to see if there's new dialogue. And sometimes I do spend a long time looking at scenery.
Agree totally
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Originally Posted by vometia

Similar to me (well, except without The Recording of Stuff). I prefer to take my time and explore, and re-explore to see if I've missed anything or just because I feel like it and want to look at the scenery, and to generally faff about and go on random tangents and stuff. Speed-runs are a real anathema to my play-style; as is the risk of doing quests in the wrong order...



Yeah, this. You can't JUST talk to every NPC. You have to talk to every NPC multiple times, to see if there's new dialogue. And sometimes I do spend a long time looking at scenery.


I've bounced off Tyranny because all marketing was "play an evil character" and that's just not where my fun times lie. Dark story, I can do with...but not flat out villain.
is it fun to play??? like does obsidian actually tell a good story??? also is there a campaign if so is it long
Originally Posted by Thrythlind

I was thoroughly disappointed with MoW, but otherwise, I loved NWN2 and NWN1...definitely VTM:Bloodlines

MoW was a bit messy, storywise, but I loved that there was a viable path for evil characters. Because of this it will always be one of my favorites. I've played too many RPGs where helping needy NPCs was what it seems all about. It's starting to be annoying how they all wait around for a hero to show up to solve their problems.

Originally Posted by Thrythlind

You might want to look toward a YouTube stream by the name of Kikoskia. He did Ultima 7. Serpent Isle, Ultima 1, Ultima Underworld, Ultima Underworld 2, Ultima 8, and (recently) Ultima 9. He also did NWN, NWN: SoU, NWN: HoU, Lands of Lore (twice), Lands of Lore 2, Lands of Lore 3, Anvil of Dawn, BG1, and BG2.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_ADhkBQFudvyhdpsBJJvYw

He does a lot of older games and RPGs, actually. Very pleasant, laid back man, generally doesn't have a cross-word to say about games he plays (won't LP games he won't enjoy), but he is lovingly heavy on lampshade hanging.

Good to see some people still play the old classics. To me they didn't stand the test of time very well, I still remember them fondly but I won't play them again. It simply wouldn't be the same.

Originally Posted by Thrythlind

Ouch on Cyberpunk and Bloodlines. As to the others yeah, combat was the most annoying part of Pillars. RTWP is something I'm fine with in some games, but not so much in an RPG. I recently played about an hour or two of Divinity 2 because people kept saying how this game is just that over again, but to be honest, I don't much feel it beyond a love for starting people on failing ships and beaches....In any case, Divinity didn't hold me the way BG3 has. It's very much "okay, this is a thing that exists". I think the whole "society believes super powers are evil / super powers are actually evil" story hook turned me off immediately.

Pretty much the same thing on DOS2. I didn't finish it past the 2nd act. The game in a way felt a bit masochistic. The characters/companions didn't feel relatable and I didn't like playing them. Maybe it was the origin system. And the combat felt repetitive. I got bored with it pretty fast.
They have the complete NWN2 on gog for 20 american bux so imay do it just because but honestly if it lags like NWN remastered does i probably wont touch it because of the way it runs ...I just hope it runs better than the 1st one which I bought for xbone 1 these were of course pre PC days... ha I mean does it have better dated graphics than NWN1???
Originally Posted by Moirnelithe

Pretty much the same thing on DOS2. I didn't finish it past the 2nd act. The game in a way felt a bit masochistic. The characters/companions didn't feel relatable and I didn't like playing them. Maybe it was the origin system. And the combat felt repetitive. I got bored with it pretty fast.


A lot of this, yeah. The BG3 companions so far are fairly abrasive-ish...but not in a way that annoys me as a person consuming fiction. The companion/origin characters for DOS2 just felt......annoying. In general.

I LIKE the companions in BG3 for the most part. But the ones in DOS2....just...irritating.
Originally Posted by DayVlad73
They have the complete NWN2 on gog for 20 american bux so imay do it just because but honestly if it lags like NWN remastered does i probably wont touch it because of the way it runs ...I just hope it runs better than the 1st one which I bought for xbone 1 these were of course pre PC days... ha I mean does it have better dated graphics than NWN1???


NWN 1 = Aurora engine
NWN 2 = Electron engine = upgraded Aurora engine

It looks a bit better imo but it's still dated compared to 2020. Don't know about lag I never had problems with either game. But if NWN 1 lagged for you than this one probably will lag too.
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Yeah, this. You can't JUST talk to every NPC. You have to talk to every NPC multiple times, to see if there's new dialogue. And sometimes I do spend a long time looking at scenery.

Something I played recently (I forget what exactly; Greedfall, maybe?) pretty much ensured you had to do this as you'd miss so much dialogue if you didn't go all Columbo on the NPCs!

Originally Posted by Thrythlind
I've bounced off Tyranny because all marketing was "play an evil character" and that's just not where my fun times lie. Dark story, I can do with...but not flat out villain.

Evil situation, but not necessarily an evil character. I find it difficult to do the latter but found Tyranny mostly rewarding to play in that I still got to do my own thing. Yeah, you have to play within the system and side with one of two variously disagreeable factions but it doesn't mean you have to sell out to the evil side.
Wow so many great comments. Some comments about comments:

Vampire: redemption and vampire bloodlines - very different games, both worth a try. I think bloodlines is better, and generally one of the best RPG games ever made (thank god for fans). Just don't play it without unofficial patch.

Dragon's Dogma - from the team that made Devil May Cry 3-5 (one of the only non RPG game series I'm a fanatic fan of), Dragon's Dogma is a great action RPG, with interesting story concepts and cool but half baked mechanics. I really hope a sequel is on the way.

About the Witcher 3 - I can see why people would consider it the best RPG of all times, and I don't think there's anything invalid about it. But I find it hard to pick a game where you can't create your own character as the best.

Let's talk companions - I really love some of kingmaker companions and find them to be quite unique. I also can't leave Jolee bindo out of any self respecting companion list
Greedfall was an.....interesting RPG....very pretty some interesting systems....but well,

So, on Loading Ready Run's Let's Nope stream....Adam Savidan and Ben Ulmer like to open their stream with warning people that horror games often try to make use of mental issues for story purposes and often handle it in very clumsy ways that can be full of unfortunate implications. They especially use the metaphor of trying to stuff a large object through a hole that's too small and saying "Why won't you fit?!"

And that feels like what happened with Greedfall and colonialism. It feels there was an honest attempt to do handle the subject matter, but they sort of lost energy for it half-way through and the result is somewhat...ehh?
Tyranny pushed me to read Black Company series (not very popular dark fantasy books in my country) after I found out Soulcatcher was inspiration for the Voices of Nerat. So good to have games like this.
also never played vampire bloodlines is that worth checking out??? Which of these 3 is best ??? SHADOWRUN
NEVERWINTER NIGHTS 2OR VAMPIRE THE MASQUERADE BLOODLINES
Originally Posted by DayVlad73
also never played vampire bloodlines is that worth checking out??? Which of these 3 is best ??? SHADOWRUN
NEVERWINTER NIGHTS 2OR VAMPIRE THE MASQUERADE BLOODLINES


Hard choice, to be honest, I like all of them very much.
Originally Posted by Thrythlind
Originally Posted by DayVlad73
also never played vampire bloodlines is that worth checking out??? Which of these 3 is best ??? SHADOWRUN
NEVERWINTER NIGHTS 2OR VAMPIRE THE MASQUERADE BLOODLINES


Hard choice, to be honest, I like all of them very much.

OK WHICH ONE HAS MOST BANG FOR THE BUCK THE LONGEST AND BEST STORY
Originally Posted by DayVlad73
Originally Posted by Thrythlind
Originally Posted by DayVlad73
also never played vampire bloodlines is that worth checking out??? Which of these 3 is best ??? SHADOWRUN
NEVERWINTER NIGHTS 2OR VAMPIRE THE MASQUERADE BLOODLINES


Hard choice, to be honest, I like all of them very much.

OK WHICH ONE HAS MOST BANG FOR THE BUCK THE LONGEST AND BEST STORY


As a note, capslock is a bit unneccessary.

NWN2 will get you the Original Campaign, Mask of the Betrayer (which is very good), Storm of Zehir (which I haven't played yet), and Mysteries of Westgate (which is meh but short). And also access to lots of modules made by a very community. (I played a rebuild of Icewind Dale on NWN2 and there's a relatively well known rebuild of Baldur's Gate that I think was put together by one of the original BG1 devs.)

Shadowrun Returns is about 10 hours of content but there may also be a number of custom community modules (haven't delved into it much...I haven't actually done the official expansion module.) Shadowrun: Dragonfall and Shadowrun: Hong Kong have improved game play and are about 28 - 33 hours or so. They also have the ability to run community modules...and again, I haven't tapped into that much yet. But you have to buy each game separately and I'm not sure what they sell for right now.

Vampire the Masquerade has some of the best level-design I've encountered in games and is just hugely well designed in terms of atmosphere and feel. But there's no expansions (there's a fan-made "Final Nights" mod but it's just the same story with a different set of clans available and a handful of very small side-quests...there's also a fan-made mod which lets you turn some of the mortals in the game into vampires....but I haven't messed with that mod. It feels a bit like it promises too much. Also note that the game as sold has some huge issues that make it hard to start up. The unofficial patch is pretty much necessary to play it and though the issue isn't anymore involved than installing games in the 90s would have been and you only really have to deal with it the first time you install it and get it running.

My suggestion would be probably to put them on wishlist and keep an eye on when they go on sale.
Oh man, this could be a loooooong conversation.

My first computer RPG was Diablo. I played that series obsessively. Diablo 2 and 3 were both a little rough when they first launched, but by the time they got the expansions out and refined things further, they had become the quintessential loot-based action RPGs. It's also one of the few RPGs I like playing with multiplayer since I largely think of RPG video games as single player games.

Next I got Fallout and that was a revelation. I adore the first two Fallout games and I think they're still the best in the series. Fallout 3 came around and was very different and lacking in the humor, wit, and style of the first two, but I still sunk hundreds of hours into it. New Vegas was even better in most respects, but Fallout 4 was a let down for me because I felt that Bethesda had taken away the role playing aspect of the game by forcing you to play their limited character. They trick you by putting in a character creator and then railroad you so hard. I hated the Institute storyline and I felt that synths did not fit into the Fallout universe. Also the focus on base building was not compelling in the least to me and my OCD couldn't stand not being able to align items to a grid. Fallout 76 I won't touch with a ten foot pole.

Morrowind was a neat, original place to explore but I never felt compelled to get very far in the story and I thought the character progression system was awful (jump everywhere to raise your skills!). It was more like a fantasy Grand Theft Auto where you just played the game to dick around. Oblivion I liked more -- especially the Shivering Isles which might be my favorite Elder Scrolls thing ever. Skyrim I liked even more and they finally switched to a more sane character progression system. Overall, I like exploring Bethesda games, but the writing and storytelling have never been very strong, IMO. Also I don't think it's cute that Bethesda leans into their reputation of making buggy games and try to play it off like it's charming. It's not; fix your damn game engine and try giving your games some polish for once.

I really like the Dragon Age series. The first one was great and was a very promising start for a new RPG series in a new setting. I would go back and replay it again if the PC version had controller support because I don't like playing games with keyboard and mouse. (Sorry, Morrigan and Leliana.) I find it unfortunate that DA2 was rushed by EA and that it subsequently has a bad reputation. Despite a lot of content being reused, I think they made the best with what little time they had. Magic in combat felt better than the first game and I really love some of the companions from DA2 like Varric and Isabela. Inquisition was mostly excellent. If they had significantly toned down the resource gathering that made me stop to pick up stuff constantly, then I would like it even more. Otherwise, I've got few complaints other than the Frostbyte engine being so poorly optimized that it requires brute force power to make the game playable at a good frame rate and resolution. Here's to hoping DA4 doesn't suck.

I enjoyed the first three Mass Effect games too (didn't bother with Andromeda). There are lots of areas to improve (inventory management, boring planet traversal in ME1, more interesting skills and powers) but I dug what BioWare was going for and the soundtrack was rad. As far as the controversial ME3, I played it after they released the expanded ending and I think it concluded fine. Not incredible, but I wasn't part of the angry mob against it. Hopefully the rumors of a remastered trilogy are true since the original PC versions kinda suck.

Baldur's Gate was my first introduction to D&D and I ate it up. BG2 improved on everything and is a masterpiece in my eyes. The Icewind Dale games (both very similar, just one uses 2e rules and the other 3e) are very fun combat focused dungeon crawlers. Planescape: Torment is one of the most original games I've ever played and I find the whole conceit of being The Nameless One to be very interesting. Just a fantastic game, that one. If you've got the patience to read, you'll be rewarded greatly.

Neverwinter Nights I thought was a big step down from the Infinity Engine games. The 3D graphics were ugly then and are even uglier now (despite EE improvements to lighting). Movement and exploration was more frustrating because now you had to babysit a camera. I didn't like any of the companions or the limited party space and I did not find the story compelling at all in any of the modules. I've only played a few hours of NWN2 and gave up. I remember the controls and camera being even worse. Still, these games are way better than that "free" to play Neverwinter game that's out now. The game wanted me to pay $60 to play as a Dragonborn and then it plays like some awful combination of EverQuest and Kingdom Hearts. Not worth anyone's time. The D&D license under Atari and Hasbro has just produced garbage video games so far. Will BG3 be the first D&D to game break this cursed chain of failures? We'll see...

I couldn't stand The Witcher 1, put maybe 10 hours into the second one, and then went whole hog on the third. Despite combat being so-so, to me The Witcher 3 is the best RPG of the last generation. The storytelling and voice work are top notch and I love, love, love how the game handles monsters. I've waited for years for a game to make me feel like I was battling Meg Mucklebones from Ridley Scott's Legend. TW3 nails atmosphere and making you feel like you're hunting unique monsters. Then on the other side of things you've got the beautiful countryside in Blood and Wine to play around in as you bring Geralt to the end of his adventures. I'm also still impressed with the way the game makes you feel like you're traveling through a real forest with the way trees bend in the wind and such. Simply marvelous.

The first Pillars of Eternity is a little bland and some of the classes I didn't find interesting, but I enjoyed it and the second game even more. PoE2 felt much fresher with the nautical pirate theme and I felt like I had a better sense of the world of Eora -- or at least its pantheon of gods. Plus, they finally added the ability to play Turn Based combat in addition to Real Time with Pause. That in and of itself deserves praise (especially since the debate between the two systems is so contentious).

Pathfinder: Kingmaker is wonderful. I'm in the sixth and final part of the Adventure Path and I think I have enjoyed this game more than any other that tried to follow in the footsteps of Baldur's Gate. It just does so many things right and brings a bunch of quality of life improvements to the genre while giving you the chance to play something new with the whole kingdom management aspect. I installed some mods to alleviate my anxiety with time-based quests and I still see several areas where the game could use some polish, but for a first time game from a small studio, I am super impressed and gladly went ahead and backed the upcoming Wrath of the Righteous. The alpha has actually been super stable for me so far and I love being able to bring up the bug report tool in the game. Very smart stuff.

I've got maybe 70 hours across the entire Divinity franchise. To me, they were always C level games that were kind of interesting once you had played through all the big A and B level games and were looking for something else. (And seemingly nobody seems to praise or even be aware of the Divinity games before Original Sin?) DOS1 I gave up on because I hated the controls (this was before they added controller support) and the story and setting were not interesting. Plus there's just too much useless crap thrown about everywhere (something the Elder Scrolls is also guilty of). DOS2 I have put the most time into, but I don't like it very much. I felt like the game was trying to punish me the entire time I was playing it by putting surfaces everywhere which would make my characters move slowly or trip and fall. Then every spell seems to leave surfaces too and I found that got old really, really quick. Then the writing was average at best and party movement and inventory management was clunky as hell. I'm sad that I failed to see why people love this game.

I never made it very far in Temple of Elemental Evil because the game is just unfinished and broken, but the TB combat seemed fairly good. Arcanum seemed OK, but I never made it far there either. Tyranny came out at the wrong time for me to want to play an evil character. Torment: Tides of Numenera hasn't seen much play time from me and I couldn't get into Wasteland 2.

For JRPGs, Chrono Trigger, EarthBound, and Final Fantasy (5, 6, 7, 9) are my favorites. I don't enjoy playing JRPGs as much ever since they started introducing voice acting into games. Tea kettle voiced characters and overly naïve innocents (Colette from Tales of Symphonia) get on my nerves like crazy. A benefit of the smaller storage size of the older JRPGs is that they had to edit the script so they couldn't just spew line after line of inconsequential dialogue. With those space limitations removed, JRPGs went overboard with bad story pacing and overly long cutscenes as if nobody had an editor telling them to reel things in. And I guess that's how we get a burning trash heap of a story like Kingdom Hearts. There are still some good JRPGs that come out though. Persona 4 and 5 have good stories with interesting characters even if I think the combat is super boring once you figure out you can get free turns by exploiting elemental weaknesses.

I could go on and on, but I feel I've already written too much.
Vampire TM is favorite Tabletop. Wished they explored the franchise more in videogames.

Redemption had a very nice atmosphere, characters and voice-acting. It is hidden gem. Much more action than RPG.

Bloodlines is interesting but buggy. Really hopeful for Bloodlines 2.
Obsidian is clearly the best studio for me. I can see some might consider them overrated because they didn't make a truly great game in many years but they DID make KOTOR 2 and FNV

Obsidian is also the most promising because Avowed is coming, shame they had to release POE 2 first to realize that paying homage to the old infinity engine games over and over doesn't pay but better late than never

Bethesda is clearly the most overrated, I didn't truly enjoy any of their games, they are good at building open worlds but they fill them with shit content and story

CDPR is also a bit overrated. I loved Witcher 1 but can't say I'm happy how TW2 a TW3 turned out but I can see how normies could enjoy them.

As for Bioware the less to say about them the better. Last game they made that was actually good was what? KOTOR 1? And even that was later completely overshadowed by KOTOR 2 even though it was released unfinished.

My top 3 RPGs are:
Witcher 1
FNV
KOTOR 2

Larian should take a close look at KOTOR 2 It is based on DND but it is clearly unique. It has turn based combat that looks and feels good (more spells, animations etc. than KOTOR 1) And it managed it without constntly throwing fire under your feet or abusing verticality.
Best RPG studio of all times: At first, I wanted to answer Bioware, but then I thought about it some, slept on it and came into conclusion that the people who made Bioware successful are long gone, replaced by EAs lackeys. Bioware of the past has made some of the most memorable games that redefined the term cRPG, but lately, thanks to the evil daddy EA they are stuck using engines that aren't really made for RPGs, so they have to battle with them to modify them. Sure, their current games look gorgeous, but are empty shells compared to some of their older work, based on the depth of the stories and the characters. So for me, personally the winner is Obsidian. Sure, they have quite a lot of bad to mediocre games under their belt, but they also aren't afraid to experiment to push their own creative boundaries. The best example I can give is: Bioware, recently has gotten lazy and sticks to their true and tested cookie cutter formula of game writing and design, they are desperately trying to recreate and recapture their own glory days while streamlining their stories and game mechanics as much as possible, meanwhile Obsidian has taken a lot of risks, they don't just stick to what worked in the past, no, they do their best to try to reinvent the wheel, for better or for worse. Not to mention all the times Obsidian has been royally screwed over, it's a wonder they haven't capitulated and called it a day. What I am really hoping for, is that daddy Microsoft won't become the next EA. Given enough time and resources to flourish, I do truly believe that Obsidian might just enter their truly golden era - and they deserve it.

Best RPG game series: Baldur's Gate of course. Although, original Fallouts are also amazing, it's too bad the series have been perverted beyond recognition.

Best RPG for modders: Skyrim.

Best RPG for normies: Skyrim.

Most Overrated Studio: Bethesda - let's get this straight - they have some of the biggest RPG titles out there, but lack creativity to do anything with them, aside from constant reusing of the same game engine they used since Morrowind (slightly modified to graphically look better and better). Their games, once modded and/or fixed by their players are enjoyable enough I guess, but I hate it how it's the community that has to do the heavy lifting for them. Their last good RPG, in my opinion has been Morrowind. At the time of it's release, it was revolutionary, but ever since then they're been recreating the same type of game under different title, they are taking 0 risks and it shows.

Most Promising Studio: Now this is a hard one for me, but I actually think Larian deserves this title. They've been going at it for ages now, I remember when I was a kid with no PC and saw my cousin play this cool game called ... Divine Divinity. And later to realize that both DOS games are prequels/sequel type of deal. BUT I have one criticism to DOS - too much fighting and too little story, what story there is - it's good, but my main problem is that you gotta go through hours of combat to get to the next story bit, and sure, turn based combat is enjoyable, but not when 1 simple fight is a waste of minimum of 5 mins because the AI takes it's sweet ass time plotting the next move... It's the main reason I haven't been able to finish both of them. But I guess before BG3 is done, I will have enough time to actually power through both DOS just to actually see the stories unfold for myself. My main problem with these types of games is that I have to discover every corner of the map, even if there is absolutely nothing there to see. I am a true anal OCD completionist and that tends to tire me out on certain types of games.

The one Game that has Everything Baldur's Gate 3 needs to become a legend: Oof, another hard one for me. But I would say, gameplay wise it's doing fine (could nerf the surfaces though), improve the thinking speed of the AI (getting DOS flashbacks) but... one game that would turn BG3 into legendary status? NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer, I know a lot of people think "eww, NWN2 is trash' or 'boooring' and I agree, the base game was kinda lackluster, but MotB is one of the most epic stories I have ever played through, it's really up there on the lvl of BG2 and Planescape Torment... the only downside it's an expansion, so it's kinda short and you don't have many romance choices because of that, but there is so much in it! All the planar travel (Fugue plane, shadow Mulsantir, can we please get shadow Baldur's Gate? with all the Shar plots it would make some sense), dark force threatening to devour the main char from within...in BG3 it could be the tadpole maybe? Then all my complaints about lack of a main villain on the lvl of Sarevok or Irenicus would be gone. I mean, tadpole being the end boss of BG3 would be fun, but the problem I have with that is - companions and their tadpoles, would we have to fight 4 tadpole bosses in our minds? I don't think it would be that simple. But story wise... I can't state enough how good that game is.

My favorite game of all times: Baldur's Gate 2. It's old and I don't give a damn. I still make it a point to replay it once every couple of years. Just to keep my memory fresh.
Originally Posted by Thrythlind
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Originally Posted by vometia

Similar to me (well, except without The Recording of Stuff). I prefer to take my time and explore, and re-explore to see if I've missed anything or just because I feel like it and want to look at the scenery, and to generally faff about and go on random tangents and stuff. Speed-runs are a real anathema to my play-style; as is the risk of doing quests in the wrong order...



Yeah, this. You can't JUST talk to every NPC. You have to talk to every NPC multiple times, to see if there's new dialogue. And sometimes I do spend a long time looking at scenery.


I've bounced off Tyranny because all marketing was "play an evil character" and that's just not where my fun times lie. Dark story, I can do with...but not flat out villain.



You actually don't have to be an evil character. You can rebel against the evil people and help the "good" people. You have a position within the evil empire, but you can actually decide to use your power for good, and eventually stand up against your evil overlords.
Originally Posted by DayVlad73
They have the complete NWN2 on gog for 20 american bux so imay do it just because but honestly if it lags like NWN remastered does i probably wont touch it because of the way it runs ...I just hope it runs better than the 1st one which I bought for xbone 1 these were of course pre PC days... ha I mean does it have better dated graphics than NWN1???


In my opinion, NWN2 has MUCH better graphics than NWN. Much. I mean, by today's standards, they're still not great graphics, but they don't hurt my soul to look at like NWN. (Which I still love, in spite of the fact that it looks like seven miles of bad road.)
Originally Posted by Verte
Tyranny pushed me to read Black Company series (not very popular dark fantasy books in my country) after I found out Soulcatcher was inspiration for the Voices of Nerat. So good to have games like this.


The Black Company series is great!
I wanted to address this point before but forgot, so here it is - About Bethesda-

They used to be some very highly regarded studio, but I doubt they still are. The best thing about Fallout 4 was the fact it was created with Skyrim's engine, which allowed mod makers to actually fix it's broken story. Since it is still mods, the story still feels like a big mass, and the game is very flawed. Since then Bethesda released the very hated Fallout 77 which was really a bug-ridden expensive nothing. Bethesda is very lucky to have the modding community to fix their games lol.
One RPG I've been having a lot fun with recently is CrossCode...which is an indie puzzle-platformer/action RPG. One of the developers I believe is one of the people in the RPG Maker community that is known for doing high-quality bits and the game has a bit of that visual style of classic JRPGs. Though, again, it's an action RPG and not at all turn-based. Lots of dodging and switching modes. The puzzles are very clever, the music is amazing, and it's actually rather relaxing to just get on and wander about exploring, looking for some of the hidden optional jump-puzzles, fighting the enemies, and just generally experiencing the game.

Storyline is that it is far future and there is a planet, I forget the name of it, where a continent has been set aside as "The Playground". Here people will connect to Avatars generated by something called "Instant Matter" and basically have full-on MMO in actual physical place. This MMO is called "CrossWorld". After a short prologue where you play some lady called "Shizuka" trying to find her brother, you wake up as "Lea" on a ship outside of the Playground proper and told you're going to be put into the game because you have amnesia and the one thing they are sure of is that you had been a player in this game and maybe playing it will get your memory back.

Also, Lea is sort of mute. This is explained as a problem with a neuro-interface and once or twice other "players" will comment that they thought that didn't happen anymore. Over the course of the game, the tech guy supporting Lea will manages to program in a new word here and there (I'm...maybe halfway through the base game and I have, I think, 7 words.) It's both a wonderful bit of poking at the silent protagonist and a bit of representation for people are actually mute (the friend who introduced me to the game occasionally suffers from selective mutism and really loves this game). Lea's dialogue art is extremely expressive and she somehow manages to be extremely snarky even with a very limited vocabulary. Her expression when an NPC responds to her silence or single word replies as if she'd said a paragraph are especially amusing.

I'm not usually a fan of games with set characters (hence why there aren't that many JRPGs on my list) but this game is just delightful. The story has unexpected depths though it is not a branching storyline. And I just love Lea and the first friend she encounters among other players. Just very fun all around.
Originally Posted by eLeF
Obsidian is clearly the best studio for me. I can see some might consider them overrated because they didn't make a truly great game in many years but they DID make KOTOR 2 and FNV.

Err... PoE1 and PoE2 are pretty recent releases.
Most promising studio is very hard to answer. I put Obsidian because Avowed but Larian and Spiders are just as promising.

I just didn't understand why Spiders is coming up with a new IP when Greedfall got so close to greatness. A sequel with more complex mechanics and bigger scope (and now they have the money to do it) could be the RPG of the year.
Originally Posted by Danielbda
Most promising studio is very hard to answer. I put Obsidian because Avowed but Larian and Spiders are just as promising.

I just didn't understand why Spiders is coming up with a new IP when Greedfall got so close to greatness. A sequel with more complex mechanics and bigger scope (and now they have the money to do it) could be the RPG of the year.


Well, Technomancer shared world with their older production Mars War Logs so there is still a chance for colonial expansion in the future. ;-)
Originally Posted by Danielbda
Most promising studio is very hard to answer. I put Obsidian because Avowed but Larian and Spiders are just as promising.

I just didn't understand why Spiders is coming up with a new IP when Greedfall got so close to greatness. A sequel with more complex mechanics and bigger scope (and now they have the money to do it) could be the RPG of the year.

That's actually very good news. Means we have a lot of great games to look forward to.

I really hope CD project won't stay at the FPS games sphere for life. same hope for Obsidian. if Avowed won't be FP only, I'll probably play and enjoy it. And of course, we have Larian, that hopefully will keep evolving and perfecting their formula. or try something completely new (as they like to do), but this time with much more resources
Originally Posted by Abits
Originally Posted by Danielbda
Most promising studio is very hard to answer. I put Obsidian because Avowed but Larian and Spiders are just as promising.

I just didn't understand why Spiders is coming up with a new IP when Greedfall got so close to greatness. A sequel with more complex mechanics and bigger scope (and now they have the money to do it) could be the RPG of the year.

That's actually very good news. Means we have a lot of great games to look forward to.

I really hope CD project won't stay at the FPS games sphere for life. same hope for Obsidian. if Avowed won't be FP only, I'll probably play and enjoy it. And of course, we have Larian, that hopefully will keep evolving and perfecting their formula. or try something completely new (as they like to do), but this time with much more resources

Would be better news if Spiders stuck with Greedfall.
Again, that game was huge for them, it was like PoE for Obsidian or DoS to Larian. It was one of the best selling games of the year, it made their profit go up 400%, why not invest in it?
Originally Posted by Danielbda
Originally Posted by Abits
Originally Posted by Danielbda
Most promising studio is very hard to answer. I put Obsidian because Avowed but Larian and Spiders are just as promising.

I just didn't understand why Spiders is coming up with a new IP when Greedfall got so close to greatness. A sequel with more complex mechanics and bigger scope (and now they have the money to do it) could be the RPG of the year.

That's actually very good news. Means we have a lot of great games to look forward to.

I really hope CD project won't stay at the FPS games sphere for life. same hope for Obsidian. if Avowed won't be FP only, I'll probably play and enjoy it. And of course, we have Larian, that hopefully will keep evolving and perfecting their formula. or try something completely new (as they like to do), but this time with much more resources

Would be better news if Spiders stuck with Greedfall.
Again, that game was huge for them, it was like PoE for Obsidian or DoS to Larian. It was one of the best selling games of the year, it made their profit go up 400%, why not invest in it?

Oh I definitely agree about Spiders. Greedfall was very rough around the edges, but it was so interesting and had such a unique and interesting setting... I don't get them.
Regarding favorite RPG companions....hrrm, this will be hard:


Neeshka (NWN2) - Neeshka is the best rogue companion I've ever had in a game. And she is just adorable. Neeshka is best girl...and if her company leader would stop touching things before she can check them for traps all would be right with the world.

Emilie-Sophie de Belmond aka "Emilienator" - Emilie is amazing. She is the first friend Lea makes in the game and despite the fact it takes her forever to figure out that Lea can't talk much, she is definitely supportive. She is also very competitive in a friendly and non-toxic manner.

Gobbet (Shadowrun: Hong Kong) - Gobbet is an orc rat shaman who is about 19 years old or so. And she is just....an absolute disaster of a person. Reckless, haphazard, friendly, competent, loyal, but more than a little crazy. To be honest, she's sort of the same type of character as Neeshka...though much filthier and more emotionally resilient. (stuff that should be trauma just seems to roll off her like water off a duck's back)

Linu La'Neral (NWN/NWN:HoU) - So, this is another disaster character. Hugely accident prone. Every chapter where you meet her she has a new story of bizarre Rube-Goldbergian disaster that happened since she last saw you. Also she makes undead go Bzzat!

Shandra Jerro (NWN2) - She's a great person who gets drawn into your story through no fault of her own and if there were any justice in the world she would have appeared in Mask of the Betrayer.

Glory (Shadowrun: Dragonfall) - Glory's story....is just so poignant. It is such a well-written story and....I can't say too much without spoiling. Just the sheer weight of her emotional fatigue becomes clearer and clearer the more you know her. And it felt so refreshing to get her some level of closure.

Deekin (NWN:SoU / NWN:HoU) - Deekin is the infamous kobold bard and there is an innocence to the way he talks about things that is just so charming. Let me be clear about what I mean by innocence. Deekin is very friendly and doesn't ever seem to act with evil intent, but at the same time, he takes some activities and situations for granted which any other character would discuss with either fear or sinister attitude.

Hommet Shaw (Sword Coast Legends) - How does one get exiled by the Harpell family? Hommet is the answer to that question. Oh my goodness, he almost feels like he belongs in Discworld. Partying with him is like an exercise in amusing absurdity.

Neera (Baldur's Gate 1 & 2) - I do seem have a thing for disaster characters. Neera is just really a fun character to have around, I was really amused by the way she introduced herself and just the way she has mixes constant anxiety with idealism and optimism just is a mood.
Originally Posted by Abits

Oh I definitely agree about Spiders. Greedfall was very rough around the edges, but it was so interesting and had such a unique and interesting setting... I don't get them.


On the balance I enjoyed Greedfall....but I have trouble deciding if the social commentary aspect is too much or too little and have basically decided that it was just extremely unpolished.
Originally Posted by Thrythlind
Regarding favorite RPG companions....hrrm, this will be hard:


Neeshka (NWN2) - Neeshka is the best rogue companion I've ever had in a game. And she is just adorable. Neeshka is best girl...and if her company leader would stop touching things before she can check them for traps all would be right with the world.

Emilie-Sophie de Belmond aka "Emilienator" - Emilie is amazing. She is the first friend Lea makes in the game and despite the fact it takes her forever to figure out that Lea can't talk much, she is definitely supportive. She is also very competitive in a friendly and non-toxic manner.

Gobbet (Shadowrun: Hong Kong) - Gobbet is an orc rat shaman who is about 19 years old or so. And she is just....an absolute disaster of a person. Reckless, haphazard, friendly, competent, loyal, but more than a little crazy. To be honest, she's sort of the same type of character as Neeshka...though much filthier and more emotionally resilient. (stuff that should be trauma just seems to roll off her like water off a duck's back)

Linu La'Neral (NWN/NWN:HoU) - So, this is another disaster character. Hugely accident prone. Every chapter where you meet her she has a new story of bizarre Rube-Goldbergian disaster that happened since she last saw you. Also she makes undead go Bzzat!

Shandra Jerro (NWN2) - She's a great person who gets drawn into your story through no fault of her own and if there were any justice in the world she would have appeared in Mask of the Betrayer.

Glory (Shadowrun: Dragonfall) - Glory's story....is just so poignant. It is such a well-written story and....I can't say too much without spoiling. Just the sheer weight of her emotional fatigue becomes clearer and clearer the more you know her. And it felt so refreshing to get her some level of closure.

Deekin (NWN:SoU / NWN:HoU) - Deekin is the infamous kobold bard and there is an innocence to the way he talks about things that is just so charming. Let me be clear about what I mean by innocence. Deekin is very friendly and doesn't ever seem to act with evil intent, but at the same time, he takes some activities and situations for granted which any other character would discuss with either fear or sinister attitude.

Hommet Shaw (Sword Coast Legends) - How does one get exiled by the Harpell family? Hommet is the answer to that question. Oh my goodness, he almost feels like he belongs in Discworld. Partying with him is like an exercise in amusing absurdity.

Neera (Baldur's Gate 1 & 2) - I do seem have a thing for disaster characters. Neera is just really a fun character to have around, I was really amused by the way she introduced herself and just the way she has mixes constant anxiety with idealism and optimism just is a mood.



Very nice! Several of these would also be on my list. Gobbet, Shandra Jerro, Glory, and Deekin for sure. Linu was pretty cool too, though NWN doesn't give companions a ton of development, and Neeshka was all right. I found Neeshka a little too boilerplate, but she was still a good companion. But before any of those would be Dak'kon, Fall-From-Grace, Annah, and Nordom from Planescape: Torment. And Kim Kitsuragi from Disco Elysium.
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Dak'kon, Fall-From-Grace, Annah, and Nordom from Planescape: Torment. And Kim Kitsuragi from Disco Elysium.


No love for Morte? D:
Originally Posted by Abits

Let's talk companions

In general I prefer companions with gradual development, and good integration with world/story/themes. In short companions that immediately “pop”, but fails to be relevant or developed (Kingmaker, Baldur’s Gates, D:OS1&2) don’t stay in my memory as much.

The best recent ensemble cast for me was Pillars Of Eternity1. Varied companions with compelling ways of developing them - well representing world, history and themes. Best companions act as resonating boards that amplify game’s story and conflict. PoE1 final revelation wouldn’t hit nearly as hard, if not for an excellent companions whom this reveal is personally relevant. Little back&forth between Thaos and the party of my choice is always rewarding. Favourites: Durance. Such a horrible being, such a satisfying payoff, Edér - I want him to be my bro, Sagani - just liked her journey, and I find it compelling to interact with a companion who has her own life/family, I think that is a bit that a lot of modern RPG loose and that was present in BG2. By making all companions romancable, who those companions can be becomes rather limited - and absurd if you put all companions together.

Other, singular standout is Kim Kitsuragi from Disco Elysium - a nuanced and subtle companion. Best companions feel like actual beings, and Kim is outstanding in that regards. Still, I think skills in DE should count as companions as well - they are great too.

From classics - Planescape. Morte for life! And Dak’kon
Originally Posted by Verte
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Dak'kon, Fall-From-Grace, Annah, and Nordom from Planescape: Torment. And Kim Kitsuragi from Disco Elysium.


No love for Morte? D:



Oh shit I forgot Morte somehow! I feel bad now, Morte is awesome. Of course Morte goes on the list.

Some other ones I liked would be:

- Rhin, Erritis, and Matkina from Tides of Numenera
- Verse, Lantry, and Sirin from Tyranny
- Eder, Grieving Mother, and Devil of Caroc from Pillars of Eternity
- Linzi, Ekundayo, and Amiri from Kingmaker
- Imoen, Minsc, and Viconia from Baldur's Gate
- Mazzy Fentan from Baldur's Gate 2
- Racter and Gaichu (and of course Gobbet as mentioned before) from Shadowrun: Hong Kong
- Khelgar Ironfist from Neverwinter Nights 2
- Kaelyn the Dove and Okku from Mask of the Betrayer
- Parvati and Vicar Max from The Outer Worlds
- Alistair, Oghren, Sten, Shale, and Leliana (and the dog) from Dragon Age Origins
- Stephen Heck (kinda a companion) from Alpha Protocol
- Amadea and Kalden from Masquerada: Songs and Shadows

And that's all I can think of off the top of my head.
I love companion interactions like Korgan giving everybody shit in BG2 or Morte and Annah verbally duking it out in Planescape. Those interactions were always fun. I find that more interesting than just having the main character talk to the party members one-on-one -- it gives more of a sense that you're in an adventuring party together.
Jolee Bindo. This guy is so cool. with a single character BioWare made the prequel trilogy lore more sensible and cohesive. How many video game characters can say that?

This is something both Kotor games did even better than Baldur's Gate. Not only were they loyal to the source metrial, they also built upon it, challenged it, and addressed it's faults.
Anyone else have this tendemcy to stick with first set of the companions? (well, unless meet some sassy one later)

Wish there were more banters between companions in BG3, it's too short and too 1v1 now. DAO has this perfect length of convo in party, it's more 'alive', diverse there. For example Wynne acting like a mother figure especially for Alistair, I found them hilarious together.
For me a lot of RPG (type) games were awesome at the time (but of course feel badly dated now). BG + BG2, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Torment, Might and Magic 1-8, the original AD&D games such as Eye of the Beholder and the later ones like Dark Sun. TBH the list is almost endless, even of the ones I remember.

So for me of the RPG ones I can remember first time through it would be Morrowind, Dark Sun, Torment, M+M 7, BG, Menzoberrenzan and many, many others lol. It is hard to separate so many games as a lot were great fun to play in their time. It is also harder to rate games nowadays as I mainly play MMORPG's which are a whole different kettle of fish.

A lot easier to do of course is to try and remember the truly bad ones. M + M 9 has to be second on the list with Skyrim on the top. I absolutely hated that game (and still do), in my opinion Bethesda's only failure (I can't rate Redguard though as I never got it to work).

As for studio's / companies I always liked stuff by SSI and tried to get whatever their latest release was, whatever type of game it was. Up until XTC I always enjoyed the Egosoft games, even with all the bugs, but Rebirth killed that and X4 hammered the nails in.

However, being 40 something life isn't about liking things, its about how much you dislike everything, in 21 months I'll be back to being a normal human being again and will have a more level view.
SSI made a whole lot of great D&D games (for their day). I loved them when I was growing up.
Don't know about studios but the games I like and enjoy and in no particular order. Their are other games I like but it would take too long and wouldn't want to create a huge list.

1.) Pathfinder: Kingmaker
2.) Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - waiting for that when it gets released
3.) Pillars of Eternity and Pillars of Eternity: Deadfire
4.) Neverwinter nights and Neverwinter Nights 2
5.) Mass Effect 1 - 3
6.) Dragon Age Origins and Dragon Age Inquisition
7.) Baldur's Gate 1 and 2
8.) Icewind Dale and Icewind Dale 2
9.) Skyrim
10:) Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines
11:) Witcher 3
12:) Trails of Cold Steel 1-3 and waiting for the 4th one
13:) Horizon: Zero Dawn

I am planning on getting Solasta when I get my paycheck

I was thinking of Starfield from Bethesda but I want them to show way more than nothing.


Originally Posted by Iszaryn
I was thinking of Starfield from Bethesda but I want them to show way more than nothing.

Same here. Recently some static images of the game were leaked by someone. You should be able to Google them.
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
SSI made a whole lot of great D&D games (for their day). I loved them when I was growing up.


Going to point again to Kikoskia who did a fun series of Eye of the Beholder let's plays....one of his characters from that series is now the character for his Streaming Animal Crossing island.

Kiko's fans have called it "Kiko the Radio Play" because it's one of the ones where he gets most into voicing the characters and adding his own dialogue and interaction.
Matt Chat from Matt Barton, the author of "Dungeons & Desktops", is also a great channel if you're into the history of RPGs -- he has stuff on contemporary developers too though. Some highlights in particular include interviews with Fargo about the fall of Interplay, SSI, Black Isle's Urquhart, and so on. I'm surprised he doesn't have more viewers. Perhaps his stuff is too indepth for that -- those are really comprehensive interviews and also peaks at games both old and new. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCE98xefVUXmbvQfe-wNS8oA
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