hoping for a patch every 2 week was to much to expect I guess.

Pretty sure that passive-aggressive whining for the sake of starting pointless arguments by applying presumptuous pressure to large companies isn't the way to get positive results, but you keep on truckin' along, lil guy.

I don't remember Larian promising a patch every two weeks.

You don't remember? This was at the same time they promised the RTwP mode

what did he mean by this

Honestly, I would rather count on a consistent monthly patch along with a few hotfixes at this point. That's what we had in DOS 2 if I remember correctly. And they must be following the same iterative routines.

Hope the next patch has at least 1 new class.

I'd just prefer they would put some sort of "what's next" column in their next newsletter. It would be nice to know what they intend to introduce immediately next as far as new content goes, I imagine they at least have a plan for that one - as in which class/feat/specialization or companion (as teaser) we can expect next content update.

It would be also super awesome if they'd go full POG and offer community a choice between several classes to work on next, like some sort of secure poll offering a choice between let's say - Sorcerer, Bard and Druid and let people vote for which should be given priority for EA.

A patch? Would be happy with a bullet point at this point.

Guys I'm thirsty for content too but no reason to get dickish about it

I have to admit I expected a patch too.
All the signs aligned: the last patch was exactly two weeks before, it was a Tuesday as well and more importantly SteamDB was signaling a lot of activity updating a build called "patch3" in the game's repository.

All circumstantial hints that amount to exactly zero hard evidence.
And in fact it turned out to be an unjustified expectation.



I'm not exactly the greatest fan of the OP's post history, but to be fair he was just being silly. The only people being "dickish" here are the ones replying with gratuitous passive-aggressive cattiness as if someone was questioning their mother's dignity.

Keep it pleasant, chaps.

If I were Larian, I wouldn't have wanted to release a patch on the same day as the Xbox Series X and Assassin's Creed Valhalla launches...

We know a patch's coming, it'll come when it's ready.

Don't read too much into it, since it got regular updates every N hours for the last 4-5 days, since Friday,

It's coming sooner rather than later, but nothing guarantees us it's coming in a particularly short timeframe.

Game is not as good as I expected. But speed of updating and adding new content is even worst! How many peoples works on this game? They should be able to deliver new content in 2 weeks. Every 2 weeks. They sell as unfinished product for full price. So we have right to hurry them up

Profoundly uninsightful comment.

Hmmm, nah. Absolutely not.

We know a patch is on its way, Larian has made no promises as to the exact cadence, and that's a good thing. It may be as simple as not wanting to clash with everything else going on earlier this week, or it may be that the patch isn't quite ready yet due to wanting to add something else that's ready, or finding an issue just before release that needs to be fixed. Flexibility is good.

That's it I'm out 0/10
#why_Larian
#childhood_ruined

Sometimes I really disappointed by people (or trolls?) complaining about updates Larian was super clear about what EA is, and why you should wait if you want a polished product.
The game is huge and I expect that EA will be for 1,5 year (but again - this is only a guess) - and during that time I believe that we could expect 3 or 4 patches related to changes to the game.
So it would be like a patch every 3 - 4 months - and in my eyes, it seems realistic and healthy. We could iterate on bigger changes than small fixes.

And that is resonable. Plus some hotfixes every 1-2 moths, as game is still buggy for many.

I'd say this is conservative. We know that during EA, "big" stuff will be added: classes, races, companions... and I think some other "major" features were teased. We don't know whether all of classes, for example, are going to be added during EA or when 1.0 ships, but I'd lean towards the former as those things need to be extensively playtested. I think a big patch with new things and/or substantial changes would be reasonable to expect every 2 months or so. Whether it has anything to do with reality remains to be seen...

Don't forget that for the entirety of the early access period only the first act of the game will be available.
There's a limited amount of 'new' content that can be added to one secluded part of the game. Many of the major patches that'll get added during the early access period will mostly contain system changes, revamped encounters/dialogue and other similar additions.
Of course they're also add new classes, races and possibly companions during development, but that's mostly for feedback/QA purposes, not just to add them because they are complete. When I read some of the posts about the EA release schedule I have a feeling that some people are under the impression that the entire game is going to be gradually added to the EA version until the entire game magically becomes playable. This is most certainly not how things will unfold.

Honestly it's the rapid amount of mods being created that's holding my attention to this game. Sure, it's EA. But it's not being updated as much and at the end of the day I still paid $60.00 for a game that's less developed than I thought. It's my first time buying an Early Access game, so I'm going to be honest and say that I was too hyped by what was promised in the marketing and just went for it. Lesson learned. I was cool with the patches coming out regularly and I'm not going to hold back from saying I'm a bit disappointed that things went quiet for a while. Not sorry if some people's disappointment somehow offends people but we STILL paid the price of a full game for this product.

Sounds like you need to go back and read what early access actually means.

there is realy a lot of ways to do a EA game, see satisfactory , they release patch every year or so, see industry of titan , they release patch with content every 2 weeks,

see game like factorio or oxygen not included where the community was truly involved and shaped the game and content all the way to version 1.0 all the content was added in the game during EA.

see game like solasta, where the dev just promised MORE content (quest, map, etc.)


the way Larian doing it , imo, is the wrong way(I own about 50 EA games. I know what am talking about.), it does not feel like a EA, but more like a BETA test. locking the content like that ? like .... we take feedback seriously but.... ONLY for act 1 we going to do act 2 and act 3 and you have NOTHING to say in the matter.you not gonna shape it or change it in anyway. ...... do you see my point ?

am kinda happy I was able to play bg3 for 140 hours, until I was totally bored of it. but according to steam data base the average playtime is 8 hours (per 2 weeks).

I did my part, I summited many feedback directly to larian via the website , and not here on the forum. now I have to wait for more "content", if it does not come and fast, I wil just uninstall and forget about BG3 and that is sad, I was hoping to get involved with the development of Baldur's gate 3 but , its not the case. the dev don't want to get involved with us. they colect thier "data" and will change some stuff here and there.

what is the point of testing a new added class, if I can't lvl up to lv 5?
lv 5 is a game changer for almost every class. it will totally WACK the Balance of ACT1, I would allow the player to test it, unless .... even in the 1.0 version act one will be lvl lock ..... that would be ... stupid.

Citing that you are a spendthrift does not in any way mean you know what you're talking about, nor does it lend any merit to what you say.

Yeah, is clear the game was in much worse state. Imagine if they had kept with the August 30th first deadline.

The game was barely stable when it was released, which I question their motive to even release EA that early. You could have waited until Q1 2021 or at the end of this year.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Mechanics/systems, player options, iterations of currently existing things. I'm certainly not expecting more story content or new areas. (Well, technically companions are more story.)

Sounds like you need to get a life and stop being a keyboard warrior who doesn't understand what an 'opinion' or 'impression' is. Go look it up.

With the bugs and glitches it feels a lot like a beta test more than anything. It's essentially a Beta that they're getting paid for. Don't get me wrong, the game was super fun, but I wasn't expecting just how bad off it was for a game they thought would be stable enough to charge people for it.

Thats... That's what early access is.

Please just back away from using a confrontational tone or getting involved in bad-tempered arguments. Stop and read what you post before hitting the return button, and ask yourself if you would be happy being spoken to in that way. If not, don't make it public.

If someone slings insults or 'fighting talk' at you (and it's likely to happen to everyone eventually), hit the "Report" button. Then be the bigger person and do not respond in the same tone. The danger of getting involved in a "Tit-for-tat" exchange is that you will both/all be tarred with the same brush.

So their mother was a hamster, and their father smelt of elderberries?

So I'm guessing you completely bypassed the tone everyone else was using on every single post here where people were commenting their own opinions, and when I retaliated against one of the rude individuals that commented on every opposing opinion, you picked mine, of all the posts here, to reprimand. Nice selectivity. I'm done with this forum.

You can tell the real play testers vs those who just wanted to play

It was a general comment to all those in the thread. Yours just happened to be the latest in the exchange.

For your collective information, I've just started a new character, Drow, you've got to laugh! Incidents around the Druids' Grove suggest there has been a stealth update.

A stealth update? How? Steam would show any downloads queued or completed.

Such as?

He's experiencing hallucinative denial, the poor soul...

Yeah, that didn't happen.

Early Access = Beta Test. Period. You get to test various aspects of the game, while the company collects data, listens to feedback (not necessarily responding to feedback) and ultimately makes whatever changes it deems necessary in reaching a final product.

Unfortunately, some folk seem to ignore the language Larian used to describe the EA, and decided that Early Access means advanced access to a finished product.

My best guess (and it is certainly just a guess) is we MAY see an update/patch somewhere in December, as a sort of holiday gift to Early Access folk, and to keep us busy during the holiday vacation season.

I'm taking the lack of a weekly patch as confirmation that moonrise towers will be included next time.

Yeah, it must be true for some people. Personally, I am trying my best to break all their rules and I do hope they will get my data. Because the cheese is so intense in some situations, like sniping the hag without even entering combat or killing minotaurs one at a time with a solo wizard, that they really need to fix some stuff.

I'm having too much fun with all the speculations and datamining.

Having fun with that as well. Which is why the need to put in moonrise towers so the dataminers can focus on act 2

Is there even act 2 (or some sort of skeleton of act 2) to datamine? I thought access to act 1 stuff was the main reason behind the ''very small'' size of the game? So far we got stripped down 80GB out of advertised 150GB version of the game.

Just a bit we know where act two and three take place, the maps for act two. As I understand it's not clear if spoiler character is in 1B or 2.

Moonrise Towers plus the two other routes to Moonrise Towers, at least one of which will be important for at least one of our companions (Lae'zel). So far I haven't seen much datamined stuff on those other two routes.

Being honest, at this stage of the game, a patch a week of some kind doesn't seem terribly beyond the ability of Larian--not at all...;) The current game is really, really raw--I mean, alpha raw, not beta raw, yet. When I bought the game in EA I knew it would be rough--and really don't mind it, as such, but then I thought that instead of one huge patch every 2-3 weeks we'd be looking at one smaller patch each week, on average, the cumulative total of three patches in three weeks roughly matching the current *huge* patch. It's now been--two weeks?--since the latest huge patch. The smaller patches--not hotfixes--but patches more specialized, etc., would go a long way to making the EA a lot more palatable. Et Tu, Brutus?...;)

I really, really want to keep playing--but I also really, really want some tangible improvement along with my raw gaming...;) I think the game will be great--certainly a contender for the Game of the Decade--but the EA isn't going to win any prizes currently. A smaller patch weekly would be something to look forward to each week to keep the EA enthusiasm going. Just my two cents, but it would be nice maybe if Sven would consider something like this as a way of accelerating the process a bit without these interminable waits in between patches.

I'm one of these weird people who actually enjoys starting over with subsequent patches and I'm usually glad to do so...;) Jus geeve a'me der patch'eh man! Yo' he'ah? Or my name isn't Zorro!

Z

Has it been stated that we'll get meaningful content added for EA?

Depends on how do you define "meaningful".
We are not getting new parts of the story, but we are supposed to get races, classes, mechanical improvements, etc. Maybe even one extra level up at some point, who knows.

When they said that Early Access was going to last for "over a year", I took that to mean "at least 18 months probably". And knowing that the Early Access period is THAT long, I came into it expecting slow development, very long stretches between updates, and a need for patience.

We didn't pay $60 (or whatever you paid) for the Early Access client. We paid for the eventual finished game. That's the product they sold us. By paying for it WAY in advance, we also get access to this unfinished preview build, that we can play around with and give feedback on. But the unfinished game is not the actual product we bought. They don't owe us ANY Early Access updates. They only owe us the finished game.

So let's have some patience.

I can't +1 this enough. I really can't understand the people who are complaining about paying 'for' early access when they've bought the actual game.
It's close to the equivalent of ordering a car directly from a car factory and going to the said factory and demanding you can take it for a ride. Of course the car won't be as capable of driving as a fully finished car.

When it comes to the length of the early access period our most reliable reference is Larian's previous game, DOS2, which was in early access for one year before it came out. I wouldn't expect anything less for BG3 either.

I read most of the posts as playful. It clearly started as trolling post but people used to say they are eager to play again.

I'm not exclusively referring to the posts on this forum.
Some of the other posts I've seen on random other sites as well as the Steam forums seem to be made by people who are genuinely furious that they weren't given a fully completed game in spite of the plethora of early access notices on the game's store page.

Oh yeah. You are brave to look at the steam forums. I think of them as troll proving grounds.

The way I see it, the more time in between each patch will lead to better progression. They get to do add a lot more into the patch, test it, stabilize it, release it, and then they can hotfix anything that the patch may have broken. Then they can move on to the next patch.

If they release patches faster, they may introduce more bugs, as they aren't taking the time to internally test it. Then they have to chase down those bugs, instead of working on the next patch.

It's a marathon not a race.

I very much agree on the marathon part and that they shouldn't carelessly rush anything, but imo it's better to release smaller patches more frequently. That way you can immediately track what is causing problems in a given build, while if you make a huge patch with a new race, a new companion, a new class and a bunch of changes to mechanics (for an extreme example), it's going to be hell to track what is causing what problem and what impact on the game each element has.

I think a patch per major change + some bugfixes and then several hotfixes until the next big patch would be reasonable.

^this.

I don't mind when the patches come out . I hope they can fix Ethel soon, and I hope we get Chapter 2 soon !

In the meantime I'm keeping busy with games I already own <3.

There is no incentive to push patches at this point. The amount of $ profit on this game is already through the roof. This game is on the back burner and resources have been put on something new for the future.
As long as peeps support these kind of products, it's just the way things roll in the gaming industry.

There is no reason to keep 1+ million paying peeps happy, Larian already got paid.
And you think they are going to get another 1+ million sales at release, or even close to that? in 18 months to 2 years down the road? doubtful.

By time this game is released, if it gets released...in 2 years or so...this game will be long forgotten and passed up by something better.

Nope, this is the model for the gaming industry.

Hype, get funding, throw out a, Alpha/Beta, get the $, and off to the next project.

Why, because people make it an acceptable business model.

I have yet to see a proper patch since launch date.

They mostly fixed performance/visual bugs so far, absolutely nothing on D&D mechanics, which to me shows they don't care about making this a D&D game, but rather DOS3 with some D&D elements.

So yeah, you can tell by the last patches the direction they are taking. Which is No Direction.

But I guess they already have my 60 dollars, oh well.

Insert not sure if serious meme here.

Because otherwise, mohahahahahahahaha.... No.

Patience. They have stupid amounts of feedback to go through AND THEN consider. The EA numbers far surpassed what they were expecting. I'd be more worried if they started churning out content patches without much thought behind them.

What I'd appreciate, however, is some kind of official statement in the vein of what The Composer (mod) posted here some time ago: "You've given us heaps of feedback! We appreciate it, but please be patient - we will need time to go through all of it and give it a good thought. Stay tuned!" Or something like that.

Good thing I bought it on GOG, might get a refund if things go awry.. or nowhere.

👀

Ok, yes!

I find it a bit questionable to patch on Friday. When I think back to the last 2 patches and the bugs that still exist, I don't want to imagine what could go wrong with it.


I would rather be interested in whether Larian is pursuing a patch plan and taking into account all the massive bugs?


I mean, how does it fail that the cube bug appears or the item bug which crashes the game underdark 1hand crossbow. Aunty Ethel endgame dialogues Item Game Crash.

Are they so deep in the programming that you can't get them solved that easily?

I would understand not pushing a patch a friday if it was a live patch on a released game. But for EA, I don't see why it's a problem at all.

Because no one of the developers works on a weekend to fix bugs and the game may not be playable until Monday, i.e. mid-week. Save Game crashs, Ui Crash etc, anything can happen. Like the Auto Save Error game Crash.

This post provides a nice little snapshot of these forums in their current state.
A baitpost meant to sow unrest on the perceived development process, bitter "this isn't Baldur's Gate 3 or 5e, we can't decide which" cheerleaders who only exist to fan flames, and misplaced optimism from aloof fans.
The suggestion forums aren't much better, with half of the posts coming from people who really want their specific sexual kinks and/or malfunctions included in the game to play out their fantasies.
Of course, things are only this way because Larian, much like any other company in this situation, isn't putting out a state of the game address every time they scratch their asses, and people feel entitled to constant updates.

It's been just about 5 weeks since EA release. You all have something like 45-50 more weeks to go. Maybe slow down a little with the exhausting posts where you try to burn everything to the ground out of boredom.
Pace yourselves.

and your reply serves a better purpose?

Wat.

Sure, sure. All of those gamers constantly expressing a desire for older games to be remastered or updated to current generation standards are a fluke.

That's a fair assessment. I still can't help but feel like a slower, more methodical approach would lead to more change in the long run. I admittedly don't have any dev experience, so take that with a grain of salt.

I too wish they at least put out announcements somewhat more frequently

It’s fine though; I have other games I can play until they add in the glorious ooga booga Big bonk class

+1

Remember when one of the patches denied players access to their existing saved games? Anything can happen - much safer to patch early in the week to ensure you have time to fix anything you break (instead of forcing weekend work).

I'm going to guess and say that a patch is coming on Monday.

But tomorrow is still a possibility, right? ;(

Eh, not gonna lie, an update or a patch would make me happy, but I don't mind waiting. Re-watching some of my fav TV series and re-playing some games in the meantime, who knows, maybe somewhere down the line I will get so bored of waiting between patches that I will actually manage to finish some games that have been on my 'to-do' list since ages. And speaking of another games, for sure Cyberpunk 2077 will be a good distraction between BG3 patches. Given CD Projekt won't delay it... again. Which I am betting they will. It's become a meme at this point.

Well, it's that orrrr.... reading books or... brushing up my tablet and actually start drawing again. Got tons of inspirations already. We'll see. Got over a year until the game's fully out anyway. Got a lot of time too, unless... an airplane conveniently crashes on my apartment complex of course.

You can check this.

https://steamdb.info/app/1086940/depots/


I'll be making sure that baby Yoda is safe -- I worry about that guy.

@Nicotta

Did you see this?

https://ogn.theonion.com/gamers-we-need-to-come-clean-cyberpunk-2077-is-just-1845368691

Now that is comedy gold. Looks like real late april fools joke too.

But no, it's the first time I read this and rofl. Whoever wrote that article must've been real salty. Or ate too many onions.

All of the games on my Steam wishlist have been pushed back to 2021, Assassin's Creed: Valhalla went Epic exclusive (boooo) and Cyberpunk is off the table because it's first person only.

Maybe it's time to risk MMO addiction once again.

I just hope CP2077 doesn't get pushed past 2020, since, well, the tabletop game was Cyberpunk 2020.



Whaaaat? Wow, I'm not up-to-date with game news. Personally I'm not that bothered since I'm not planning on playing AC anytime soon, but I didn't expect this. At all.

Same reaction lol. I won't play it but it makes it even look worse than the SkillUp review.

I despise AC since the first chapter (and still tried to play at least half of them at some point), so I can't really say that it going EGS-exclusive bothers me that much.
Especially since regardless of where you play the game, it will still launch on the crappy (but at least serviceable) Uplay client.

Still, I wonder if Ubisoft is actually getting out of the deal more than they are losing by not being on Steam.
EA and Microsoft both backtracked HARD in that sense.

I need to see that review... I didn't have great expectations nor will I play them soon, but I'd be happy if new AC games were good in general.

Why would you show this to my anxious brain. Last record update 3 hours ago.
*shakes Steam for update*

It's worth noting the patches on SteamDB get updated all the time when they change stuff or add new things to it.
The patches being changed recently doesn't necessarily mean we're getting them in the immediate future.

And how I remember it. That's why I wrote it. All the screams Friday Patch are okay, have not even rudimentarily put themselves in a position where everything can go wrong and then find weekend work okay. There is a saying. A plan is only so good until the first enemy contact

If that can calm you down, it's been updated every few hours since past Friday and as you can see we are still waiting, so yeah: that's almost meaningless.
I mean, it tells us we are getting a patch 3 at some point in the near future, but that was already a given and it doesn't tell us exactly when.

I am aware, it was even updated on Wednesday this week no?
I could take some time off from checking on all the media, but I also don't want to miss next patch

AC Valhalla is also available on uPlay/Ubistore.

Fuck that too, by the way.

I wouldn't say I despise them but I definitely grew sick of the repetitive nature of the games. I played all the AC games up until Black Flag but I couldn't finish it and that's where I ended my first round. I picked it back up for Origins and loved every minute of it... I then made the mistake of buying Odyssey which again was just too much of the same thing. It's not that the AC Franchise is bad it's that they put them out every year and they are all too similar. I need that 3 or 4 year break between games for them to feel fresh and fun again. So yeah, If I ever pick up Valhalla it won't be until it's on sale for 15 bucks.

I think the only good thing about uPlay is that Origin is worse. Though it might be debatable.



What would you say about RPG-fication of the franchise and all the booster/filler crap in Odyssey? (Haven't played since Revelations, but I can't say I like the direction they took, even if I agree that innovation is needed in the franchise. I wonder if it's as bad as I've heard.)

They updated patch3 again over summer2020_loca so there must have been a bug that prevented them from pushing the local build to go live.

Somone posted elsewhere that Belgum went under a strict covid curfew maybe they are holding off on pushing through public patches

Have you tried turning Steam off and on again?

the update 3 was deposed like 5 days ago.
before I even made this post
I guess it just makes the game more bugged then it already is, so, we not getting it
I saw it got updated like 7 or 8 times
they also working on mac version for 3% of gamers... lol that made me laugh a lot.

Feeling a little bored, I get there is a lot to do and building a game of this magnitude is no small task, but it would be nice to at least hear SOMETHING from the studio, haven't seen any announcements in a while....
Great game so far but I think a little more community interaction would go a long way... I'm having Fallout 76 flashbacks over here.
I fear by the time the actual game is complete, people will have moved on.

They did a twitter update a few hours ago, they are working, just don't have anything ready yet

Larian should install a reassuring twitter bot that will send small reassuring messages to concerned and anxious fans every day - free sign up of course.
"Just letting you know we are working hard today"
"Had more work done today."
"One more feature implemented for future patch, just hold on"
"Only three devs ended in the hospital due to covid today, but they can still code as long as they get oxygen!"
"The doctors told us they will lay them on their chest so they can type. All day."

Fair, honestly even if their update was "all our developers have Covid" nothings happening for a month, it would still be nice to hear about what's going on.
I'll check the twitter feed, thanks for the tip!

Hopefully the new update contains some previously WIP content like classes and Act 1C / 1D.

I'm gonna hazard a guess and say - 'under construction' scenes are gonna get lifted. We'll be able to appreciate more nude characters other than Minthara.

I'm curious how buggy will they be. I mean, Gale's little bed time story scene is glitch galore.

I expect some of those to be added soonish as well and hopefully, they will be already a bit more polished (at least to a level of Minthara romance lol)
They kinda hinted at it in 9th community update too.

If this is what they were working on for patch3 I want a spiritual refund.

Of course it's a matter of patience. That goes without saying, when the description of the EA states the full game is still a year off--at least. At this rate--18 months, I'd say.

I think that EA purchasers also know that they have paid for "the full game," otherwise no one would have bought the EA if they had to turn around and pay $60 again
for the finished product .

Neither of those salient points is the point, imo. I think it would be good for Larian to set up a regular goal for patches--say, once a week. First it would mean patches that fix a minimum number of things, instead of a monolithic laundry list of patch items that stretches to infinity and therefore takes weeks if not months to complete. IE, better a small patch that fixes a few things correctly, served up on a weekly basis, rather than giant patches designed to fix two or three dozen things--and then breaking a dozen other things in the process--and taking three weeks to a month to offer!

It's just setting smaller goals but sticking to them, imo. If EA purchasers could see a small patch once a week, or even a somewhat larger patch every two weeks--on a regular basis--it would at least provide Larian's customers with a semblance of progress towards the final goal of the complete game. This makes perfect sense to me--don't know why it wouldn't for anyone.

As it is, daily I fire up Galaxy, hoping for a patch I never see. With no idea when the next one will fall. Of course, someone is going to tell me how ridiculous I am with these suggestions. Really, though, I'm not shooting for ridiculous, and I'm not complaining all that stringently--like I say, I see this game, done right, as the Game of the Decade very possibly! I'm just suggesting something that probably might serve to carve a bit of order out of the chaos, is it were...

Do I expect it will matter? Good gosh, no...! But I am ever the optimist.

I admit. I laughed

+1 Well said.
I'd be perfectly reluctantly happy with a patch every month, as long as there was a stated patch schedule so I could know when expect new content.

I would have.



That is beyond unrealistic. I would love to get an update weekly, but even asking for a monthly patch is probably too much. I don't think a lot of people don't understand what all is involved. You cant just say...well its Friday, lets put out what we have.

Yeah, once a week patches won't happen. What Rum said.

Weekly patches is completely out of the question unless you want the weekly patch to just be tiny bug fixes or correcting labels and spelling mistakes.
Are people expecting a brand new class every week or something?

Come now. Think of the potential. Every week, they could change one npc name. Or they could hide a Sven model somewhere in the game. It will be like a “where’s waldo” book.

I have changed my mind. I fully support this. I demand weekly patches now!

I think Larian is about to blow us away with an amazing update, probably beginning of December:

<back to our roots> patch
DnD5th full out.
BG2 levels of atmosphere.
Revised UI.
Revised cinematic dialogues. Minor dialogues are now DOS2 text based so they concentrate on story heavy elements and add tons of options and improve animation quality.
Five new highly detailed playable NPCs.
Party of 5. Because <wink wink> 5th edition?

or

<AAA wanabe club special> patch
Some stability patches and OSX fixes, Stadia only performance enhancements.
Controller support for console gamers.
Multiplayer bug fixes. Multiplayer bug fixes. Multiplayer bug fixes.
Yet increased HP bloat and weapon damage increase.
Streamline UI for console users.
Tutorial mode for first timers to RPGs.
Three new cringy sex scenes. Your on top, he/shes on top, and threesome party camp mode.

...you know, I'd be on board with "where did Swen hide this week?"

Find Swen sounds like a fun minigame for Early Access.

Cautiously optimistic

They're going to blow us all with their new cinematics!

I forgot how horny we are.

5GB companion sex scene patch here I come

If they will I'll be happy. This should be top priority for them

I'm not 100% it this should be a priority - but this is definitely high on the list.
Cinematics are important - but you can still play the game with some broken cinematic-like Shadow Druids

I would love to see that they address issues related to game mechanics - you can currently use stealth and ranged attacks to destroy every fight without taking a single point of damage.
There are also a lot of issues related to another aspect of the enemy AI.

Personally, I would like to see fixes to game mechanics before cinematic fixes - but reality is that that probably those are task for 2 different teams and we could get both in future updates

It should be high priority at the very least since it is the most complicated thing to fix.

I wish they could at least say what Patch 3 will entail or the timeline for a new class

Larian never did an announcement for patches, they hardly tell us what's there gonna be until something is nearly done.
This is a common tactic - if you need to cut something out, no one really is mad at you because no one knows about it in the first place

Everyone would love to see some update but EA is only for one month - this is not much - I'm sure that patch is close, but it still could be like 2-3 weeks.

This is my assumption as well. I assume they just don't want to commit to anything that isn't a done deal, which is more than fair. I just don't understand why not say it explicitly.

I am no longer optimistic. The last time I paid to alpha/beta test a game and got long streaks of radio silence interrupted by infrequent, anemic patches I got Warcraft III Reforged.

I try to hold a fragment of hope, but I'm preparing for a dumpster fire (probably ignited by a barrelmancer).

You should ask yourself why nothing seems to be "a done deal" so that it can be announced.

Let the upcoming update speak for itself. Also keep in mind that Larian is still getting 3k-4k players a day so their feedback stream hasn't stopped even though I reckon most people here quit by now.

Lots of patches means lots of money not spent on developing the game. Let them only do it when they have plenty that needs new EA input. Remember as well as the direct cost to Larian in providing the patch (development, editing for EA and QA), they also have to pay Steam/whoever for the privilege of the download. Steam/whoever aren't going to provide all that storage and bandwidth for free and they can't monetise patches (yet).

I would prefer all that EA money go to development rather than some quick content just to please a few forum-goers. Don't get me wrong, I'd love more content, but I know resources are finite.

There are some big titles coming up soon so I think Larian doesn't expect us to stick around, especially if they are not updating their game regularly. But still, I think the main issue is not exactly on their hands. The country lockdown they've been going through right now doesn't help much with development and setting up update videos or pushing content.

They made an absolute killing on this game already. There is zero reason to put a huge amount of resources in this game. They sold over 1 mil copies at face value cost. I'm sure the majority of their resources are working on the next greatest project they can sucker another mil peeps to pay full retail for.

The patches for this game will be far and few until release, if it ever gets that far.

Enjoy the new business model, Hype, early access, get paid...and on the the next project.

Oh come on! go back to steam

B-but steam is filled with happiness and unicorns, and rainbows made of butterflies! Maybe only in my language though.

In English it's full of silly, childish, whiney and baseless comments just like this one

Manners please, people.

That would be embarrassing and massively counter productive for Larian. They have built a reputation and those things are worth more than a one time million+ sales. I believe if this was EA or Bethesda they would have cut the dev team by 70% and be working on the next lootbox Ladbrookes simulator. Even worse is Scam Citizen. Narr they will be completing the game.

And Blizzard had a good reputation... and a little before that Bethesda had a good reputation... and back in the early years of pc gaming, a small company called Electronic Arts (and not EA) had a very good reputation. You're only as good as the effort put in to your latest work, and the jury is still out on this one imo.

This IS true. and I suppose a day may come, that larian will be too big to care about their fans. but I seriously think It is not this day

You know, a digression, but I'm really curious about the future of Bethesda. I'm almost optimistic after the acquisition. Which is extremely bizarre by itself. I've already discarded all hope for good (or just barely decent) TESVI, but maybe MS will beat some sense into Bethesda... Won't be worse than Zenimax, eh?

I, too, like to make up some random nonsense that has nothing to do with the truth.

Anyone else feel bad that the mods here have basically been left to attempt to herd cats for at least a year over the course of weeks and months of dead air?
I do not envy you guys.

.

I seem to recall a quest somewhere that involved "herding" 10 cats back home.

This must be an example of life mirroring fiction.

At least wait for them to screw up before you start crying foul. Perhaps the initial price tag was a bit avaricious, but they were not particularly deceitful about what you were buying. And they have not declared they have burnt the ship and are on a lifeboat with our hard earned coin.

Steve Jobs had given a good insight on exactly when it happens back in the day. As long as Swen is truly in charge, it won't I guess.

Very insightful. Thanks for that

Companies don't declare that a ship burned into the ocean depths until a diving team starts pulling charred evidence of the wreckage from the sea floor.
"Hi, we took your money and ran" isn't exactly a solid business practice.

New patch announcement boiiiiii

For now only the announcement though lol. but it seems we're gonna get some story changes.

its just a bait post

around the corner can mean tomorrow or next year.

Does anyone else think this is a really awful thing for the devs to do? It completely invalidates many of the theories on the thread!

It's like that philosopher in Trademeet, why would anyone be so selfish as to save him?

It'd make sense for them to release the next patch in the next few days, and the one after that in January/February. Pretty sure december's gonna be Cyberpunk's month

Cyber what?

No, just kidding. I know where the door is...

Can't believe people still think Cyberpunk is a real game:

https://ogn.theonion.com/gamers-we-need-to-come-clean-cyberpunk-2077-is-just-1845368691

That was all my milk money! Now I cant buy milk for then next 3 months!!!!!

I know I won't be spending much time in meatspace for a while soon

They've started working on Patch 4 but won't even release Patch 3. Company is ridiculous at this point.

I wonder... I don't believe most bg3 players think this way. Probably only the die hard fans like us who check the forums several times a day

That's normal though??

The current patch is likely going through QA. I'm assuming you'd rather the devs actually did work on the next patch while QA's working on the current one, rather just sitting there doing nothing until the patch goes out? *shrug*

Patch 4 was Deposed
its a good sign.

We're ready for Patch 4.

Agreed, after reading Patch 3 notes...*Yawn*. Ready for Patch 4.

Bump

2 month check in...

*Yawn*

Personally, I find the wait time somewhat reassuring. If they're taking so long on this one, that means that it's bound to have something of interest in it. So, looking forward to that.

what is that baldur's gate 3 game?
oh right that Dos 3 game form 4 month ago.
did anything changed since ? nope.

I get why people want major patches but i for one could care less about those.

It's totally fine if they take 6 months or more for the next major patch i don't care. But give us feedback teasers so we can give feedback on those something, anything so we can build community around it! We all know how small, broke ass companies do their EAs. You did it for years so why stop? If a guy can solo code for 12 hours and then post on the forum for few more hours??? There is no reason why a company of 300 can't do it.


Let us be part of the development that was the main reason for EA your words not my. EA to make the game better!!



You did it for Dos 8 years ago when you were broke, so you can do it now! Years later multiple millions from us. Not like it takes a week to make and post a video like that.

And everyone who can read knows what work in progress is so there is no reason not to post!

Btw posts on your twitter on how you're making next patch or if or when you're flooding - whatever is bunch of empty worlds and it's pointless. It just makes studios PR look bad, like amateurs are running lt.

Everyone knows you didn't leave and left the game to die after all it's your golden goose.

People just want to see teasers. The same reason why League of Leagues gives feedback, like skins and champions feedback on changes. So people feel connected to the game how hard is to understand? They have 140 million players learn something from them.

https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/

And that's just for dev feedback not counting game launcher info, patch notes, twitters and other platforms. Learn and get you money! 1 billion a year learn from the best... And trust me no one would talk about floods at Riot even if they happen.

Ow and if anyone thinks i'm asking for to much, here is just a snap from BG 3 GoG store site. Maybe you should change those.


"How can I get a better sense of what's to come during development?"

"Check out the game's forums for a better idea of where the game is heading, and a chance to talk to the devs about the future of their game."

Now this would be expecting to much "talk to the devs about the future of their game" but it still happens with devs that care.

Tease tease tease... fuel that hype train! No need for patches if you tease people.

Maybe we will get something for Valentine's Day.

I'm a bit bored as well with all this waiting. I don't even want story spoils. I just want to see Paladin Oath of vengeance and the other party members. I especially want to see the good party members to see the difference between their idea of good and evil. I also want to see how many good party members are actually getting in so I have a better idea of what kind of game I'll be playing.

I'll be moderately content to just theory craft builds for my party from then till release.

They seem to be enjoying this aura of mystery and these big, high-production value reveals. As someone who works in a creative agency, this is a bad way to collaborate. The client (in this case us, the EA ‘backers’) either feels like they’re settling for something not quite what they asked for or the studio has to do a lot of extra work to bring it in line. Communicating effectively can avoid all of this.

Early Access doesn't mean made-to-order, and even if it did not all players want the same things. The responsibility for creating a fun game with effectively inter-locking systems is Larian's. Designing to specs laid down by the noisiest players doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

Early Access also doesn't mean to take the money and run with it. Everyone is allowed to have a different opinion on how close Larian should follow feedback but weeks and months of practically radio silence and not engaging any conversation with the people paying for your work isn't really a sign of being at eye level with your customers. Sure, some people are fine with that and that's ok but some people are expecting a little bit more when they take their time to test everything (basically doing the work others get paid for) and provide suggestions and feedback about what could be done differently. And honestly, just a little weekly or biweekly community update about how things are going and what is being worked on and discussed with the team would go a long way. People are not expecting a two-page article every single time, just a little update.
And again, if you personally don't care about such things, that's fine as well.

So true, but then again you have no good reason to be in this thread...

This would be great. But unfortunately that would require Larian to actually communicate and engage in some kind of bare minimum dialogue with the community and the EA testers. Alas, that seems to be something they are hell-bent on not doing.

Well, we have the Panel from Hell II coming up on wednesday, so hopefully we will get the communication we so crave from that.

Can't wait!

I’m sure this patch will be a big one, but wow they’re really perpetuating this huge song and dance every time they want to communicate with us. Today we had an announcement about a future event where they’re making another announcement.

I think their Coming Soon™ should be upgraded to Coming Soon®

Making an announcement for an event where announcements will be made is industry standard practice and has been for a long time. How would people know to log into the event (or attend an event in a Covid free alternate timeline) if they didn't announce it?

Pretty sure it’s not industry standard to tease announcements for an event to reveal an EA patch. New titles or expansions, yes. Considering we’ve paid full price to be part of this EA experience, having the only real communications come in the form of trumpeted events is a huge let-down, and not how Larian have done it historically either.

Panel from Hell is the new Nightcity wire.

Oh, please don’t let this be true.

Nope. If you are live streaming something, anything, and want people to watch you let them know beforehand. There is nothing remotely unusual about that.

But why does there need to be a big Twitch reveal for another EA patch. Why all the spectacle to make it seem like they care about communication when it's been radio silence (AGAIN) for months.

And they know how negative impact this has on the community, but they continue to do it.

Why can't they just tweet out the date the patch will go live and post the patch notes. If they want to have a teaser, confirm via tweet on today that it will be a NEW _____

This is just to put on a show for people who have already bought the damn game.

You left out you actually paid the full price for the full game. Playing early, getting an opportunity to influence the development even in the slightest, while also supporting a good up-and-coming developer is what you get back for paying early. Feeling hugely let down by somewhat lackluster communication just as Larian announce another panel event speaks more about entitlement issues than any failing on Larian's part imo.

Personally for me (this is not a personal attack on OP and it is subjective taste) it is totally unrealistic and silly wish to want a patch every second week. If it is huge patch every second month and if needed some hotfix to fix bugs etc in addition to that I am fine with it.

What nonsense!

They do not have to release anything of Act 2 and Act 3 in Early Access and I wish they do not do that.

Having in Early Access all classes in Players Handbook and all Cleric domains would be nice and if there are going to be more races for full release then to release them also.

They could release the 1b area everything from Chapter 1.

"You're entitled to the opportunity of influencing game development but you're not entitled to communication"

Well, for one, they probably want more people to buy the game. BG3 is still technically an unreleased game. What do game studios do to build interest for unreleased games? They hold live steaming events. That’s marketing.

Second, I don’t know why they feel that they specifically need to hold an event for this patch, but I could speculate that they possibly want to discuss something about the data the have collected and / or the path forward beyond this patch.

Third, why not hold an event? It’s not like you will get the patch sooner without the event.

And why do you need constant updates? Seriously? I don’t need to know what they are doing week by week. Why would I? They are negatively impacting the community? That sounds to me like the community should grow up.

Sorry for being rude but this entire line of complaint is dumb.

I'd prefer big patches every 3 months or so.

I'd prefer patches when Larian feels they are good and ready to provide one. Same goes for updates.

I'm not the developer, so I sure as heck am not going to try and dictate how they proceed in developing their product.

I get to view the product as it is being developed, give my suggestions, comments and opinions to the developer - end of story.

I had the choice of buying the game in early access, or waiting until full release - I made my choice.

If I want to travel from Texas to Chicago, I get to choose my destination, my travel dates, my mode of transportation, what I eat while I travel - but I don't get to dictate the design of the vehicle.

If I contract to have a house built, I get to provide input into design and décor choices, but I don't get to dictate HOW the house is built, whether board a is connected to panel b by screws or nails is not my call.

EA nowadays is an AMAZING marketing way to screw fans over, while at the same time give the illusion to people that they are being listened to for future developments / patches. Its just a win win solution when making a game now.
You can be SURE that Larian already knew what fans would complain about, it is incredibly OBVIOUS.

So basically fans of DOS games will be pretty happy. Fans of Baldurs gate games not so happy. And fans of D&D in general pretty unhappy. They ALL bought into EA. Money in the bank from lovers of BG3 and haters alike.

You perfectly described a preorder of a game, not an early access where having a dialogue between developers and their audience is key. So far the communication has been lacking on one side of the table pretty heavily.
Again, if you went into this early access expecting it to be nothing else than a preorder, just waiting for the final release, that's fine for you but other people expect a little bit more from a dialogue than talking to a wall.

I'm a fan of classic BG games, played it countless times since release 20 years ago and I'm VERY happy with this EA. So you're generalizing and you're wrong.

Building off of that, I've seen multiple posts about classic BG fans who were actively dissuaded from trying the game by rhetoric like Mr_Planescapist's here, but ended up liking the EA when they tried it. And as a 5e aficionado, I also am very happy with the EA in general.

I am happy to support rpgs that look good to me in EA or Kickstarter because I know they don't make as much money as other types of games. However, if you don't like EA, just wait until full release to get a game, as it says on the BG3 steam page.

that word has lost all meaning. "omg, you paid for a product and expect something? You're sooo entitled" It's ridiculous. Yes, technically we don't have any "right" to know what's going on behind the scenes, but yikes, a lot of EAs pride themselves on this idea that "hey, we're building the game while you watch" kind of vibe, which includes communication like "Hey, here is our weekly update about what we're working on". It's not entitled to be disappointed when that doesn't happen. It's like if most of the Mcdonalds you visit let you have free refills and suddenly one doesn't, you're not entitled for being disappointed. You're just disappointed, and that's OKAY, just as it's okay for that Mcdonalds not to give you free refills.

Certainly some developers ( paradox comes to mind ) are much more active in providing blogs and other ongoing communications/soliciting feedback, even when they have not taken your money.

Apparently having nobody tasked with community engagement during a full-priced EA, with no real notion of duration, is probably not a good look.

Exactly this. Larian is benefiting hugely from this EA process. We’re all paying volunteers here. A little communication from Larian isn’t too much to ask. At least a running list of known issues or acknowledgment of areas they’re addressing would go a long way so we’re not all talking around in circles. They want my feedback? My feedback is I would politely request that they communicate with us more, just like they used to and other studios using EA do.

As you said VOLUNTEERS !! Nobody made anyone purchase the game in Early Access. You are a volunteer, complaining about the lack of a pay-off. You've been told volunteers will get a free party , dinner and concert at the end of the job, and are screaming because you haven't received details on what is being served, who is playing at the concert, what date it is scheduled for - and demanding your favorite dishes and bands because they are what "everyone wants".

You’ve obviously never done any real volunteering or managed volunteers in your life. Communication is absolutely essential.

I’m really not sure what it is you people feel that you need to be communicated to you.

You want to know exactly what Larian is working on? Not going to happen. In AAA development there are two many moving parts. Larian would constantly need to walk back their statements as features get reimagined, retooled, and pushed back.

You want to know broadly what Larian is working on in a very general sense? Why? For what purpose?

So we know we didn't drop 60 bucks to talk into a void over an alpha test?

What does that mean?

You dropped $60 to purchase a game that you know Larian is working on.

You paid it early to allow Larian to collect your data and read your feedback and make changes to the product before full release.

We already know that they are implementing changes based on feedback based on the last patch.

So what do you mean when you say you are afraid that you are talking into a void?

OK here’s an example – there’s a (possibly infamous) thread in here which has just been promoted to megathread status on party movement – almost 500 comments since Tuco posted it four months ago. A simple ‘it’s in the pipeline’ or even ‘we hear you' from Larian would go a long way. Just take a skim of it and get a sense of the frustration involved and the resentment brewing. It would be so easy for Larian to turn that around, if they treated this forum as other studios treat their betas/EAs (even Larian themselves for DOS).

See? You have already provided interesting topics to keep us in the loop on how and why the game is shaping up the way it is going to be or not going to be. How much they want to go into detail is up to them. I don't need to know every secret hidden room that eventually didn't make it into the game. I also don't need to know about experimental features that aren't even playable at the moment.
But I would like to know what their reasons where to change something that was already implemented in Early Access, for example, or what they are still being unsure about. They could also talk about the currently hottest topics on the forums, to maybe cool the flames here and there or provide another topic people could talk about and get an idea of how people feel about certain things.
They could also just put a stop to certain discussions that are running in circles infinitely because there is nothing in sight on how Larian is going to move on with the game. It feels like everyone and their mother have discussed back and forth about things like combat, how much DnD 5e should be in the game, how much homebrew should be and so on.
They already have a wonderful tool in their hands, a direct line of communication between them and their customers and fans. The only thing they would need to do is use it. If they actually care about feedback, that is, and don't just have a forum for the sake of having a forum and ignore it.
Just being a bit more transparent about their design and production process doesn't mean they would have to play with all cards open.

Every mega thread should have had official responses from a community manager/dev type, at a minimum.

Actually, volunteers are told do this, put this there, be here at such time.

They are not told the program budget, hiring plans, proposed programmatic changes, time lines for proposed changes - and they have NO input into such areas.

People keep demanding Larian run EA the way they believe it should be run - Larian has absolutely NO duty to respond in a fashion you or I deem proper - they get to respond if and when they choose to, in the manner they choose to. This is 100% their choice.

Your choice and mine was solely the chose to participate in EA -

Our choice now is to communicate our opinions and viewpoints, or not.

It’s kind of funny that you post that thread. The first comment in that thread was from me voicing my agreement with the OP because of problems with how the game handled jumping. The last patch specifically changed party jumping in a way that resolved my complaint. I don’t need a Larian rep to come in and assure me that my problem specifically would be addressed. They have said multiple times that they read the comments, iterate on their game design, and implement where they can, and I’ve seen this demonstrated.

Now there is nothing wrong wishing Larian communicated more often. Their perceived lack of response doesn’t bother me, but this is in line with what I have always seen on all of the official game forums I have visited (which isn’t very much) so I don’t expect anything more.

The thing I butt up against is the idea of people being bitter, resentful and frustrated by this. Why? It would be one thing if this was a beta for a multiplayer game, where constant developer feedback is absolutely necessary to maintain the active, constant player base, but that isn’t this game. You don’t need to be constantly engaged with this game and so Larian isn’t trying to keep you constantly engaged. If you have already played 200 hours repeating the first chapter of a roughly 100 hour rpg then get a new hobby. Play another game. Read a book. Learn to paint. I say this as somebody who has put almost 200 hours into the game, and hasn’t bought a new game since.

You people are demanding that Larian not only continue to make the game, but to keep you engaged and entertained while they do it. Why? Just be patient and do something else.

“But I payed to be in the EA!”

And you got hours of (hopefully) entertainment from a game that is a year out from full release. You aren’t owed anything else.

Edit: I’m responding to my own hypothetical invented quote here, not you specifically, Lukas.

I think you misunderstood my point. We don’t need to be in the loop, and Larian doesn’t need to keep us constantly engaged in this forum. If people are at each others’ throats and talking around each other in circles that is their problem, not Larian’s. I just find the very fundamental premise that Larian is responsible for managing people’s expectations and level of engagement in this way a bit ridiculous.

I only ever see studios provide this level of community engagement if they:

A) are making some sort of multiplayer game that needs a certain volume of constant players to maintain viability
B) it is a really small studio that needs to assure its backers that it is still actually making the game and not dicking around.

That isn’t to say there aren’t exceptions to this generalization, but I’ve visited a bunch of different game forums pre-launch over the years and the level of engagement I see here doesn’t strike at all as atypical.

Anyway, typical or not, this it how it is. I simply don’t understand being frustrated by it. We know they read the forum (as they have already made adjustments to the game based on feedback). We will eventually know what is in the new patch and what they have been implementing very soon. Why it is in any way incumbent upon them to tell us what they are doing in the interim is beyond me. I know they are working on the game. Why isn’t that enough for you?

If they did tell people what they were doing some would still melodramatically protest and bicker anyway, regardless of whatever they do, simply because it’s the internet.

That is correct, they don't need to be active or engaging with us, or even moderating on the forums. But doing so wouldn't hurt them either and could even improve the discussions being held on the forums.



This might be correct as well, but "not being atypical" doesn't mean that it's good.

Simple: people are different. What might be good enough for you, isn't automatically good enough for the rest of the world. And every person you meet in life might have different standards of how good or bad something is or has been, whether being it your boss about your job performance, your teacher about your grades, your parents about your freetime activities, or your partner about how little you talk to each other.

Following this reasoning you could simply abandon any type or form of PR because your argument is so broad-brush it could be applied to literally anything. So no reason even talking to anybody in life because there will always be someone protesting or bickering about what you say.

I haven't been around when they were workin on DoS2, but what I do hear a lot is how much more active and engaging they were back then. And now that they have way more money and resources at their disposal I am actually surprised that people are suddenly holding them to a lower standard than what they were used to.

Time to bump this. We were told over 2 months ago at Patch 4 release that they improved their coding and programming and would make subsequent patches easier and faster.

Now we wait to see if the time for Patch 5 actually takes longer than Patch 4, which was over 90 days.

At this point I don’t really believe anything Larian promises. I do think it is best they just stay quiet if they have no intention of making changes or don’t want feedback.

This was my estimated timeline as of March 19
Patch 5: ...waiting (currently 8.5 weeks after Patch 4, 28.5 weeks since launch)
According to my estimate, we are behind schedule for adding a new class. But if the next patch comes in the next 6 weeks and includes the remainder of Act 1 and/or 2 classes, then we'll still be on schedule.

I'm expected an 80 day gap before patch 5. On-boarding new employees is promising, but they usually need to be brought up to speed. After patch 5 is a more realistic timeline to see quicker patch releases.

There's a lot of activity on steamdb since last week. Not sure it really mean something but to be honnest I expected patch 5 last week.

I hope this one is the one.

I feel like when people start posting about a lot of activity on steamdb, then the next patch comes out a few weeks afterward. So 3-4 weeks until patch 5!

One needs to note that Solasta's full launch is happening at the end of May. Releasing Patch 5 on the same week would be in pretty bad form.

At the same time, Pathfinder WotR Beta phase 2 is happening in a week and a half from now as well. Also releasing a patch on that week would also be in bad form, but it'll affect far less people as only a handful of people such as myself have beta access to begin with. I imagine WotC would actually encourage that kind of thing to kneecap Pathfinder hype, but given that we've had zero word on the patch in general, it's unlikely to be anytime within the next two weeks.

My bet is that if a patch is happening anytime soon, it's either going to be in mid-May or mid-June.

Patching or Updates to hurt competition is pretty normal behavior. Blizzard has strangled many a game release this way.

Why? O_o
If they have something to show, i dont see any reason to keep it for themselves, just bcs "some other game will be showing something" at same time ... :-/

I think it'd mainly to avoid competing or seem like they are competing? Though I think most people wouldn't see it as competing and more like "Woah, more D&D content, woo!"

At this point it seems the EA is just there for marketing and creating hype until full release. Whenever things quiet down, they will release a new class to get things going again. Press will write articles, players will start new playthroughs and streamers will stream.

It's smart marketing but I'm disappointed by the complete lack of communication from Larian. Many players are giving well thought out feedback with valid concerns. But it seems like they do what they like (which is mostly Divinity even though this is supposed to be D&D) and have their own internal testing for actual feedback.

The game is mechanically looking to disappoint both DOS fans and D&D fans, and would be interesting to hear which way they are going to salvage the gameplay. Or if it will remain a half baked hybrid to somewhat satisfy as many people as possible, without being great for anyone. Like what happened to Dragon Age, pretty but shallow repetitive gameplay and riding mostly on storytelling and characters. Probably some market research also shows that players who don't care about a mechanical challenge are in the minority and most just want to experience the story. That would explain why AAA games like DA:I play so badly.

I wonder if there will be a backlash if they neuter the D&D gameplay further in the name of video gaming.

Where?

The guy in the tent at the beginning, if I remember well.

Oh yeah ... that was retorical question ... its on 21:40 i was expecting that when i use specific-time link, it would start play in time ... not from the beginning. -_-
Well, at least im learning here ...

Anyway, it seem to me like he is only talking about making patches smaller, but im kinda missing anything about them being faster or more often. O_o

Well, i gues its matter of point of view, as usualy ...
But i would rather to seem like competing ... than seem like being affraid of competition. :-/

And what's wrong with the story riding on characters and storytelling, exactly?

I suppose I never played tabletop D&D (never had the opportunity) but mucking around with dice, rules and game mechanics is not my favourite thing to do. Yes I'm likely in the minority here, but I personally love this game for its characters, visuals and storytelling. I'm definitely itching for a patch to come out, but it will be ready when it's ready. I'd rather the patch be somewhat polished and not broken.

I'm all about storytelling and characters in video games, and quality visuals are a nice bonus. I throw mechanics out the nearest window. It would be interesting to see Larian's stats on how many people played DOS2 in the various difficulty modes.

I don't think you're in the minority. Plenty of us are here for the story and characters.

Speak for yourselves.

I'm here for the entertainment value in watching certain people moan, groan and bitch that EA doesn't meet their definition of EA, and that the final game wasn't released 6 months ago.

Well if we're talking about why we're on the forums, then yes I'm mostly here for the trainwreck lol...

Honestly, I don't mind the wait IF they actually give us some of the things we're really out here asking for.

We didn't really ask for druid so much, but we got it. I like druid and all, but it would have been nicer to get things we REALLY asked for.

At the very least, we need more communication from Larian. What are they doing? ARE they really taking out feedback and putting it into the game?

It's one thing for Blizzard to do it to other MMOs.

It's another thing entirely if both games are ultimately derived from the same core franchise. WotC probably wouldn't like that very much, and Larian likely would stay out of Solasta's way as it's being made by a much smaller studio and Larian actually DID contribute to their kickstarter too, so there's that. That, and there's literally no sign of BG3 being fully launched within the next full year (nor should anyone hope for anything sooner), so there's little point to the kneecapping anyway.

Though I imagine WotC would fully encourage something like that for whenever Pathfinder WotR gets released, since it's part of the one property that is in direct competition with DnD. I'm actually 100% expecting a major patch to drop on the same week as WotR's full launch.

I'm with you. If character or story bored I dont care how cool gameplay, I just drop it.


I'm still trying to finish DOS2 on tactics at least once, but it's very difficult for me, probably because my brain can't think of a way like "take 200 barrels with you" or "wow, can I throw a huge box if use telekinesis". So when I find out here that people carry barrels with them, I just..... O_O what

Careful. In that specific competition I fully expect Pathfinder to win.

Being in the beta myself, I'm in full agreement. It's shaping up to be the best RTwP game I've ever played (though I generally play it with a mix of RTwP for easier fights and switch on turn-based mode for major boss fights), the music is consistently sublime, and the companions have turned out to be my overall favorite cast of party members in any game I've played as well. It's probably going to have the same effect on revitalizing the RTwP scene as DOS2 did for turn-based games.

Sounds awesome. I had been looking at it, will probably pick it up.

Its suppose to rain whole next week in middle Europe ...
Maybe it will cause a minor flood ... and you know what flood means for Larian. :P

are the companions actually likable or at least are there a variety of them for evil/good players?

There's quite the variety of them. 11 to be exact. All with wildly different priorities, but the game's writing somehow makes it very plausible that they're all working together in a hellscape, even if they have entirely different agendas. Some companions are really deep, but it's rather subtle at it.


The thing that really sets WotR's companions apart, even if they aren't as openly deep or philosophical as the likes of BG3, is that you get a good sense of what they are through very indirect means. And by that, I mean lots and lots of party banter. And they will often respond to each other, instead of only reacting to the player character. In the game's hub areas throughout the chapters, you often see the companions positioned in places that make sense given their personalities and backstories, like Sosiel painting at various locales depending on the time of day, Greybor brooding in a corner of the tavern awaiting new contracts, Seelah training new recruits, and so on.

Some of their companion quests also don't actually feature anything related to violence at all (compared to something like DOS2 where you basically shanked someone every step of the way for every companion), which would be very surprising given the game's setting and overall themes. Chapter 3 of WotR in particular is pretty much 60% companion quests and 40% main quest, with one companion even getting three quests in there.

Someone could literally make a very in-depth relationship chart between the WotR companions, and it would actually be a lot more complex than just pairing the companions with similar alignment. For one, make a note of which party members insult Ember, and who otherwise leave her alone or even respect her. The results are not what most people would expect if you are going off of the alignment wheel alone, and it's a very subtle way of adding depth to each companion.

Well...I'm sold.

Good luck Larian, enjoy my $70, you'll never see another penny from me

Hopefully Owlcat has improved on their bugtesting, though, considering the PK release. Last year they've released the game on consoles, and it was apparently quite buggy too. I'd rather they take more time, seems like WotR was in development for a relatively short time.

Well, they seem serious about catching bugs this time. While not much has changed between Kingmaker and WotR on the surface level, they apparently made a lot of backend changes to their coding to make it easier to prevent and fix bugs, especially in regards to how the game recognizes event flags now. There was also originally going to be one alpha testing phase and one beta testing phase, but they decided to open up a second phase for both. Phase 2 for WotR Beta actually starts next Wednesday.

Now that I think about it, Alpha phase 1 actually began an entire year ago. The game's been in development since late 2019 I think.

Owlcat was originally targeting June 2021 for full launch. That's clearly not happening anymore, and as good as the beta was, it got really buggy near the end of the beta build and needs a lot of extra time in the oven. I think full launch will be pushed back to end of September, which would be the 3 year anniversary of Kingmaker's launch. If not even longer than that.

I hope they've hired a better copy editor; the English translation of Kingmaker was... not top tier. Yes, I'm one of the five people who care about such things.

At this rate we'll get WotR before patch 5.

Patch 5 is looking to take longer than Patch 4 at this point. And I wonder if it will be hyped as THE BIGGEST PATCH SO FAR again.

In addition to 5 classes being missing, there are also subclasses missing from existing classes. There are also abilities that NPCs and enemies have that should be enabled for PCs.

It's been about 2 months. Judging from the current lack of any information at all, the earliest that patch 5 may happen will probably cross the 3 month timeline, which would make it on par with patch 4 - and right into Solasta's full release window too.

Now that I think about it, Larian's been pretty radio silent lately, compared to before. Could mean big things are coming in this upcoming patch.

Well, if Patch 5 is bigger than patch 4, then yes it will be "the biggest patch so far". :P
I'm definitely hoping for more of the missing classes to be added.

I don't think it will be bigger, because after 3 months we got one class. I think that again in 3 months we will get 1 class or maybe a new 1 new companion. Or we'll get an update in the summer.

There's another patch 4 hotfix being worked on, apparently, which is not good news for patch 5. If the latter was near release, I assume they'd just be rolling the former into it.

Maybe they are strugling with some things ...
Personaly i cant quite imagine how they want to implement Paladin with this "automatic reactions" system. :-/

Also, given that Larian didn't even start to tease about the fifth patch, we must be at least weeks away from its release.

The companions are pretty much the only thing WotR has going for it story wise. Don't get me wrong, it's a big deal and they are the best cast I've seen in years in a RPG, but it's a shame they are stuck in such a bad story.

Perhaps, but I guess that’s the nature of directly adapting a tabletop module. People said the same thing about tabletop Kingmaker, and the game actually did turn out pretty decent because Owlcat filled in a ton of plot holes themselves, and now their changes are considered canon with the updated module.

The companions really sell these games. Owlcat really knows how to write characters that actually feel like they’re part of the setting and legitimately care about what’s actually happening, instead of being largely self absorbed and only caring about the player.


I hope they do Iron Gods next. I’ve only heard good things about that module.

Hm, not sure if Iron Gods is mainstream enough for a video game
Still, it could be worse (Reign of Winter. Certainly interesting but I guess many people will dislike the strange direction it takes).

I still hope for a Starfinder spinoff.

Funny you mention this.

Beta part 2 had a big surprise for me - there are a lot more lines voice acted now. Considering WotR is several degrees larger and with way more dialogue than most cRPGs save for Kingmaker, that's a tremendous amount of effort. But the voice acting also means the writing is also set in stone, so I'd hope they are really sure about the quality of their writing this time around.

Also WotR is clearly in the optimization phase as well. Beta phase 1 was a bit choppy for me. Beta phase 2 runs smooth as butter in comparison.

Another week of no news. We are headed toward 90 days soon, the longest between any patch.

Well I hope they bring big changes that are good and game changing such as dnd mode, then it will be worth the wait.

We can hope, but... I am not so sure about that.

Anyone else notice that Larian changed their Twitter headline to "Larian Studios, nuanced dungeon master". Do you think it means anything?

They had that since hotfix #10, where they said, quote, 'We've made nuanced changes to the loaded dice...' , so I think its just a joke.

don't expect too much or you will be disappointed

Hey, I expect nothing and I'm still ready to be disappointed anyway.

It's so noticeable and there is SO MUCH MORE of it voice acted right now, that I'm honestly starting to wonder why not to go the extra mile and make the entire game voiced.
I know they already said it would cost too much for them and I know paying voice actors is expensive in general, but I can't help but wonder if it wouldn't be worth at this point, with them already basically being half the way there.

It's not even an increase in costs that comes without a payoff on its own, after all. Fully voiced games are far more likely to be picked and played by streamers these days (because let's face it, no matter how motivated and "fine with reading" someone can be, when you are basically expected to read any single line of dialogue to your audience it's shit that gets tiring very fast) and with some random luck involved the right streamers playing your game can even increase sales significantly.

It will also make the inevitable late console port far easier to market. Traditional computer RPGs are never big sellers in their console version in general, but the ones that aren't even fully voiced are pretty much no-starters-

I am excited for the next patch! Even if the things I wish for most are not in the upcoming patch, there is always the patch after that. There most likely will at least be a new class, which I will have fun playing.

In all reality, all I want is to finally be able to progress past lvl 4. I have reached the "bored from repetition" stage and basically just keep checking in from time to time with fingers crossed. Any word or rumors of an ETA for this yet?

Last update with the Hotfix #11 said they will be back soon*** with a community update. Meanwhile, it is going on the longest gap between patches but we had to have 11-and-counting hotfixes for Patch 4 with still plenty of bugs.

At this point, who knows.

There are now two Patch 5's in the Steam database, EA Patch 5 and Main Patch 5. Larian's just messing with us at this point.

I know! I wonder which Patch 5 will win?! :P

Maybe they are saving for E3

Yeah, at this point it sounds more like they're just going to shadowdrop the patch immediately after some kind of presentation (most likely E3), and it's definitely not going to be this month. I remember the rage over the launch of the previous patch, particularly over everyone's differing definitions of the word 'soon' (although there was a near universal agreement that 'soon' being more than a week is pretty out there).

On the bright side, for those of you who have Gamepass, it turns out Solasta is going to be available there during the full launch next Thursday too. You can pass the time with that. :P

Having played Solasta I can now say its absolute trash. The camera controls alone are shameful. The story is absolute nonsense. Its linear. The Music is clearly public domain or ripped off from other games. It has no multiplayer. The game graphics are basic. The controls are non-intuitive.

Its absolutely shocking to me that anyone has the audacity to mention that game in the same breath as BG3 and not feel shame. Yuck.

I am going to play it for as long as I can stand it and make notes on what an awful game it is.

But hey, maybe they did a good job on reactions. I am sure that makes up for the terribleness of every other aspect of it.

Edit: Oh look at that, and my save file was corrupted when I tried to load the game just now. Requesting refund.

BTW when you uninstall, you get a nice survey to inform them of the multiple reasons why.

Perhaps 'poor update communication' should be on the list.

It is mentioned cause it went out to achieve the same thing, implementing the 5e ruleset as a videogame, and from people have said, it seems it has succeeded on that front. People keep mentioning how BG3 mechanics should be more like Solasta's, indicating in spite of the things you mentioned, it is doing game mechanics part right. BG3 however, for most, seems to do presentation right and while the current characters are divisive, the story is considered interesting enough with its initial hook. I forget where I read it, but a user commented that if BG3's presentation and Solasta's mechanics combined, that would be the best DnD game ever. That is why people keep mentioning it, that said, this is all second hand knowledge based on comments.

20 developpers

The control non intuitive, the shamefull camera control... don't make me laugh, if it's not good (it is), it's even worse in BG3.

So are the musics but it's only a matter of taste. I find them way more epic and engaging but I admit that I'm not a huge fan of Borislav.

No one has ever claimed that the story is very deep/interresting in Solasta or that the graphics are awesome. Usually that's exactly why players loves BG3 better.

But when it comes to combatd... BG3 looks like a brainless tactical game for children.

I haven't ever uninstalled, can you tell me and anyone else who is curious (but not curious enough to uninstall) what options are listed? And is there an OTHER option where you can write the reason?

Today is THE day !

Solasta is a D&D simulator for a single person. You know there are companies that make those if you just want to do that all day. Probably cost less.

And its insultingly linear. I mean, hey I get it - some people need that linear kind of game that tells them to go from A to B to C - otherwise they get confused and end up with their underwear on their head and a ham sandwiched stuffed in their pants.

I love the tactical combat of BG3 personally. I am sorry you have such a hard time with encounters. I posted a list on Reddit for top ten mistakes you are making in BG3, you should check it out. Its great for new players.

But listen, I think its probably a great game for Philistines...I mean If Music, Art, Immersion and Story are things that just puzzle you anyway...

I don't have any hardtimes with combats... Combats in BG3 are a joke my 10 years daughter could handle after reading your list for 5 minutes.

Only unfair ennemies or solo playthrough are "a bit" challenging.

20 devs with 240k $ cannot create a story or graphics as engaging as 300+ people with millions of $. It's only a matter of money.

That's a bit obvious but ofc you have to consider the context and the gameplay/the mechanics more than the graphics / story to understand why Solasta 2 is gonna be a 1.000.000 dollar game.

On many things BG3 is better but this small indie game contain things that works way better than this AAA.

Genuine question, what do you find tactical about combat in BG3?

Personally I found it repetitive and almost solely based around jumping behind your enemies or gaining high ground for advantage and/or shoving. Buff/debuff spells are almost obsolete because Larian believes the playerbase thinks they are boring and want fireworks everywhere.

I mean Solasta has sold 100k to 200k copies. So that means its made about 8 Million (assuming high end), minus steam fees. But that means its a super niche game, with not a lot of broad appeal. Most people want a bit more sizzle with their steak. But I think there are a core group of rule-focused D&D fanatics who don't value storytelling who will love it.

https://steamspy.com/app/1096530

As opposed to BG3 which has sold 2-5 Million copies...so far. Or $120 Million (assuming low end) minus steam fees. Has much broader appeal, has a social aspect to it (Multi), has a huge mod community who are ready to go. The potential for long term content with BG3 is HUGE. Custom Modules, exporting characters, etc etc.. BG3 has the potential to be the Game of the Decade.
I am excited.

https://steamspy.com/app/1086940


If they just fixed the Camera control in Solasta, it would make the game 10 times better. It's ridiculous. Lots of people have complained about it, but also unlike Larian they don't listen to player feedback, even a little.

I agree that the potential of BG3 is MASSIVE. 100%.
And multiplayer is obviously a part of it.

Add BG3's graphics, multiplayer mode, a few more interraction with the environment, a deeper story and real companions to Solasta and it is not a "niche" game anymore. It's potential is also very good and the foundations are extremely strong for next games.

The differences you're tallking about included how it sold only comes from the size of the project and the money available. Not combats mechanics or the rules implementations/deviations.

BG3's combats are a bit brainless because it's all about the OP mechanics inside Larian's box rather than the tons of creativity allowed by the D&D box.

Ofc you may have a better experience in MP if you're playing with players that aren't the best, if you try to solo'd the game or if you don't use Larian's cheeses..

But that's a poor tactical solo game that only rely on a very limited number of OP mechanics that can be summarized in a 5 minutes to read reddit post.

And when higher difficulty levels will come we'll have to stop using the tons of D&D sub-optimal choices even more to focus on Larian's cheeses.

PS : I don't really understand your problem with the camera. From my own experience it's only a real one when you fly but anyway.

This is probably the first time I've heard about people having issues with the camera in Solasta, but I have had issues with the camera in BG3 in comparison. Though admittedly, I think your camera issues are referring to how the camera tends to go wonky if you move the camera by clicking on the map rather than normally scrolling, which is a big side effect of the verticality (and apparently nothing stopping the camera from going out of bounds via map clicking right now).

At the same time though, I've played a wide range of cRPGs, and the Larian games tend to have a different camera and overall control style than the rest that I have to spend an hour readjusting to after playing any other cRPG extensively. One could say that this is basically a litmus test to see who plays cRPGs in general, and who is only a fan of Larian cRPGs. Though one could say that BG3 actually has more verticality than say, DOS2. It arguably has even more than Solasta, but the BG3 combat mechanics in their current state make it seem more detrimental rather than adding any tactical complexity.

That said, everyone's already openly admitted that combat is really the only thing Solasta has going for it in comparison, and that's enough for people like me who understand the context and are okay with it. My main concern in regards to BG3 is that I look at the various mechanics and how the encounter balance is designed to encourage or discourage them, and I'm really not seeing how BG3 is really that tactical in its current state. The vast majority of strategies involve some variation of 'make a really really good surprise round/alpha strike', probably because the encounter balance seems to be deliberately designed under the assumption that you're always doing that to begin with, and failing to do anything meaningful in your attempt immediately causes things to go to hell in most situations. That's not tactical at all, that's just flipping the chess board and saying you won the game.

I've noted that players being able to mount an effective comeback when things go wrong is pretty rare in this game, due to a combination of being grossly outnumbered or the absurd action economy that everyone has. The comebacks I've done mostly consisted of Healing Word abuse on a downed party member, and that's a case of AI manipulation more than anything else. Maybe the phase spider fight could be an example of mounting an effective comeback, but you can't really alpha strike the phase spider fight to begin with unless you are already 100% aware of how the fight works, and you can't argue that 'destroy the webs that they are conveniently standing on' is tactical when the game straight up implies that this is what you are supposed to be doing. It's a nice setpiece mechanic, but people shouldn't be acting like they have choices in that matter or that they're any smarter than anyone else for using it.

Even without all the comparisons to tabletop DnD, the combat design is still an unbalanced mess that - let's be perfectly honest with ourselves here - would be considered completely unacceptable among most turn-based enthusiasts if it wasn't a Larian game.

(And if people look far back enough in my posting history to see when I cared enough to argue about this kind of stuff, one would notice that I barely give a damn about faithfulness to 5E rules, and far more about how the mechanics actually interact with each other. I would be in favor of changes if they were good and sensible changes to begin with, but they're clearly not at this point. And I only care about proper reactions this much because the complete lack of them is a total net loss to tactical variety and could potentially offset some of the imbalance brought about with the changes, and I have yet to hear any argument about why the lack of them is a good thing other than silly theoretical vague 'immersion!' concerns.)

Also, you seem excessively hostile over this topic for some reason. Should probably tone down the emotion there, or people will get the wrong impression and respond in kind. I mean, really, I only made an offhand comment about another cRPG being on Gamepass while we wait for the next patch. And then you went and turned it into... This.

On another topic, I saw your top 10 mistakes thread on Reddit a few days ago. So I'm going to break down what each point actually means to me.

https://old.reddit.com/r/BaldursGat...mistakes_you_are_making_in_bg3_or_how_i/


That said, your list can basically be broken down into three categories. Stat-based mistakes, tactical mistakes, and item-based mistakes. It's the tactical mistakes that people are focusing on, they're the ones that involve the greatest deviations from the base rules, and they're the ones with a disproportionate effect on the game's combat flow than anything else in the game for various reasons - most of all being heavily encouraging ambush/alpha strike mentality, because actually engaging with the negative aspects of these mechanics is like rowing up shit creek because you actually have to wrestle with the RNG there, and in a definitely not interesting way.

This is something we agree on, they need to fix the cheese, and I am a big advocate of that. I don't use the cheesy stuff myself.


No jumping to disengage (unless rogue). No throwing creatures around. No barrelmancy. Shove needs to be a full action.

All three of those need to be removed and shove needs modified.

I have faith that they will address these issues given time. I would rather not depend on the mod community to fix it.

I don't know of anything else that really counts as cheese. Combat stealth feels more like a bug.

Solasta has no plans to build Multiplayer into it. The Developers have said as much. Multiplayer has to be built into a game from the ground up, to try to do it after the fact is nearly impossible and results in bad/buggy multiplayer.

The rotating camera should be controlled by the center mouse wheel by pushing it, like every other game does. You can't even re-map the keys to the mouse. You can't slow down the turn speed. Ugh.

What else do you see as cheese?

Container in container and fill up with items to throw for massive damage
Throwing healing potions next to someone.

And annoying stuff like poison on ground poisons your through your boots (it's not a cloud, it's not acid).

Trash talking Solasta on someone else's forum won't make BG3 any better.

When people highlight Solasta's good features, it's not to downgrade BG3, well hopefully.
Perhaps they also know what kept BG1 / BG2 and other games being played for two decades. And they want to have it in BG3 too.

Are we talking about a Solasta again? Seriously? BG1 / BG2 is old games think about it. This games don't have many new players because the players ' preferences have changed. I never tired of reminding you that Solasta and Pathfinder are games that are designed for a narrower audience.

I know, I know, Maximus is going to say that some traditional things in games are still good for everyone, which is why I'm tired of you guys constantly bringing up this theme here... You all discuss the same thing over and over again. Even if BG3 needs changes, it just annoys me that you constantly discuss this in the context Solasta or DnD, think about a good video game for everyone, not just for board game lovers.

I mean, I was a "new player" for BG1 and 2. Maybe they don't get "many new players" but they do get pretty loyal players that start to add up as consistent buyers.

I mean ... its certainly in topic to talk about Solasta once aggain. :-/
Not if that woulnt be fun watchin you be like: "A is better!" > "No, B is better!" > "A is better!" > "No, B is better!" > "A is better!" > "No, B is better!" > "A is better!" > "No, B is better!" > ...

But lets return to more pressing matters for a second, please.
What day? O_o

Fair enough, the Solasta comparisons maybe get a little tired but BG3 by definition is based on D&D; nobody is asking for carbon copy of the tabletop game, they're asking for something that does justice to the legacy of the previous BG games and at its root is a D&D game. Plonking DOS mechanics in a D&D environment does not make it a bonafide D&D game. The original BG games might be old but they are fantastic ones at that and BG3 could learn a lot from them. Technically speaking the old BG games do have 'new players, or at least recent ones, because of the Extended Editions, opening up the games to the iOS and tablet market.

BG3 is the same kind of party based CRPG as Solasta/Pathfinder, so really the target audiences are the same if not very similar. Having fancy cinematics will no doubt appeal to a broader audience but at their roots they are the same kind of game. BG3 is not necessarily going to appeal to people who are not RPG fans.

Solasta's and Pathfinder's target audience is a much narrower one than BG3. They can still be successful with a smaller target audience because they also have a smaller budget.

For myself I am only currently interested in BG3 of the 3. From what I have read Solasta has weak characters and story, and choices don't impact the story. Pathfinder's characters look interesting, but it lacks cinematic dialogue, which is important to me, and also has harsh resting penalties, which is a big negative to me.

A good guess!

Discriminating and rejecting ideas and arguments based on their origin (or age) is not "fair enough". It is a mark of totalitarism. However I am not the one arguing about Solasta specifically.
Anyways, my reply to an aggressive post intended to stress out that 1- it does not help BG3 get a better content, 2- it may be detrimental to Larian's image as this is posted on their own forum. And I did it because I tend to appreciate what the involved parties usually post on this forum.

Oh, do we have another Solasta topic...?

<_<

META: if you're going to prohibit all mention of Solasta, just be upfront about it. Hinting that further mention of it will bring down the moderator hammer just muddies the water. It's true that people can get a little heated when discussing other games but it's not as if discussing Solasta as it compares to BG3 is inherently bad.

i think people are just joking that due to the preferences of vocal posters every topic becomes a Solasta topic sooner or later. Which is funny.

I played Solasta all the way through in the end, it was ok but had nothing I wanted in a 2021 roleplaying game and certainly nothing that would compel me to post endlessly about for months on a message board, but that's part of the joke.

Pathfinder Kingmaker sold over a million copies and led to the development of a (now imminent) sequel that promises to be "bigger an better" in everything, despise being conceived as a low budget crowdfunded "BG2 spiritual successor" from an unknown Russian developer.
If anything it's the embodiment of a surprise success story.
Solasta has probably a fraction of the Kingmaker's budget.

BG1 and BG2 themselves were ANYTHING BUT an attempt to appeal to "niche audiences" for their time. In fact they were both massive success stories and are often pointed as arguably THE games that introduced high budget and production value in a "genre for nerds" and made it shiny.
Well, outside of the Ultima series, which had the "minor" inconvenient of being basically dead by then, coming from some of its worst chapters and having a history of hefty hardware requirements that made it just for enthusiasts.

If we put aside having a FAR bigger budget, which automatically puts it on a league of its own, there's nothing BG3 is doing over Kingmaker or Wrath fo the Righeous that can be argued to be more or less suited for a "mainstream appeal" from a design standpoint.
And most of the recurring talking points on this forum about the issues BG3 should address have hardly anything to do with its appeal (or lack of it) for a "causal audience". In fact they tend to be the sort of minute details, so to speak, that a causal audience will hardly even hear about or even notice, until pointed to them.
Does anyone SERIOUSLY think that if Larian introduced a control scheme that doesn't kill small lab animals at every use or addressed some of the "quirky" oddities in their implementation of D&D rules, the casual audience would be disappointed and leave?
Like, REALLY? Can anyone argue it with a straight face and making a coherent point?

Trying to leverage the lame "ad populum" appeal with "But if they change things they lose the big market" strikes me as fairly disingenuous, at best.

Not sure what "meta" means in this context, but nah, if I was going to prohibit it I would've said so. It's not quite at the RTwP, no TB, no, your mum level yet.


Yeah, that, pretty much. Not even 100% sure if I was joking when I said maybe it should have its own subforum!

Nobody is prohibiting anything, but it gets brought up so much it has become a meme. Its boring and boorish to hear the same thing over and over.

Its also borderline trolling. Its like comparing Filet Mignon (BG3) to a half eaten hobo hotdog you found in a dumpster that someone threw up in.

But now that I played it, I have all the snark ready to go. "But Solas.." Me: "Nope! Its crap!"

Thank god I got a refund.

I will do as I please, instead, because there's no REAL reason not to.

Well ,that's irrelevant, isn't it? BG3 is NOT going to be a "Witcher 3" type of action RPG, for one, and it matches to a T the same EXACT type of CRPG experience Kingmaker and its sequel are going for, instead. Just with a far larger budget.

You are just making noises without actually saying things, unless you can pinpoint with absolute precision what kind of unreasonable "not very smart" requests I'd be making, according to you.
And please, take the time to BOTH list them and point what would be unreasonable about them.

Well, that would be a pretty damn stupid thing and short-sighted thing to say, which isn't even that surprising all things considered.
You also seem to completely overlook that if I only had NEGATIVE things to say about this game I wouldn't be invested in it. Or that I often comment on the things I don't like, because I want the game to the best it can be, not out of sheer antagonist.

Also, way to go into a complete unrelated tangent, given that the entire post you were quoting isn't even about the qualities or flaws of BG3 AT ALL, but it was related to questionable generic claims about the genre people made in this very thread.

P.S. I made my signature even more click-baity for your enjoyment.

I like how all this started because someone couldn't resist getting a chance to sass over god damn suggesting to try something else next week to pass the time if you had Gamepass, which I'm pretty sure a good chunk of us do. Because there is no way in hell patch 5 is arriving any earlier than mid-June now.

That said, I think it's fair to point out that all this falling back to cinematics and writing does nothing but muddle the waters, because hardly anyone legit has any problem with those. Of course those have mainstream appeal. Reverse the roles a bit - would you guys actually be here if say, Pathfinder had those, and BG3 didn't? Bringing that up is a much more reductionist argument than you guys realize and says quite a lot about you individually, that you guys only care about things with flashy AAA budgets rather than the gameplay itself - when the latter is rightfully more important for some of us because all of gaming at some point in time did not have the capability to support such visuals, so we realize that it is the gameplay that makes up the core of the game.

The grievances are focused on the combat for a reason. Or are you guys going to try to argue with a straight face that things like barrelmancy and height advantage and backstab advantage are suddenly mechanics that are crucial to appealing to a mainstream audience? If so, the future of RPGs is truly dire.

(I see mirrors in this type of argument within the DA fandom, with the jump from DA: Origins to DA: Inquisition. For all the latter did to try to appeal to a mainstream audience, the former is widely considered to be the superior game by the fanbase, despite almost everything about it supposedly being a much more niche game, if we were to use the arguments in this thread as a metric.)

No, and I have made clear that I hope that Barrelmancy gets removed soon as well as:

Throwing people into other people needs a serious nerf
Shove should be a full action
Throwing potions onto people to heal them
Disengage as a bonus action only for rogues. Full action for everyone else.

But I am not making mealy-mouthed statements about some other game that has nothing to do with this one. I advocate for this because I think we are better than allowing these things into the game and in the context of this game these changes make sense.

I consider as "cheeses" the mechanics that totally unbalance the game's difficulty and that reduce many choices to sub-optimal choices (DnD options including spells, features, choices, creativity).
BG3 cheeses himself by cheesing DnD and Larian's layer is the only layer that really matter.

It may not be the right words but according to me the "it's all about creativity and players agency" is a bullshit marketing argument that doesn't suit BG3 at all.
At the moment you totally have to think inside the small Larian's box to handle combats rather than having to choose inside the huge DnD box.

Hope you'll understand what I mean^^

That said, I don't consider barrelmancy as a problem.
Barrelmancy is not something combats are balanced arround at all. You can solo's the game without using any barrels with almost every classes. It's an addition, a real choice for fun.
It's not fun to me but anyway, I find cool that sometimes, ennemies use them. It can create unexpected situations and I'm perfectly fine with this
(a bit less with the too huge surface effect it creates but it's a detail).

- Highground advantage + disadvantage is ont of the biggest issues. DnD's advantage/disadvantage system is interresting and offer many possibilities. In BG3, it's cheap.
I could be fine with reasonable bonuses due to highground but not if it breaks a whole concept of DnD.

- It's the same about backstab. Advantages for attacking behind could be fine but not if it only rely on exploiting the turn based system (lol they can't face me, it's my turn !) and if it break tons of possibilities. This system is even more brainless due to disengage as a bonus action.

- Disengage as a bonus action also break the whole concept of AOO which is very important for melee character.
It tone down the uniqueness of classes, spells, features and so on.

- Dipping is ridiculously easy and powerfull. +1D4 damage is an additionnal attack with a dagger / turn, +2D4 if dualwield, +1D4 damages if the target is burning. Cost : a bonus action.

- Eating pig heads during combats looks stupid in a serious game and heal spells / healing positions are close to useless because a lot of food do a better job.

- I could be fine with shove as a bonus action but it should have real consequences. It should never push your ennemies 4 meters away, you shoud never have 100% if you're hidden and it should give you a disadvantage on your action if you use it or something. Or it should just be an action. Pushing creatures in hole is a lot of fun but the fun goes down if it's something you can do 9 times out of 10.
I'm not laughing anymore when I hear the same joke over and over again.

- Surfaces are too powerfull especially because you cannot avoid damages. It's way too easy to break concentration.

- I guess it's because of EA but being able to equip a shield to all characters before the ennemy's turn is ridiculous. If that's intended, increase our AC by 2 rather than giving us this tedious possibility.

- Unlimited resting system. Players have potions to heal and features to recover a few spells (and guess what, some classes recover their spellslot after short rests).

Anyway there are a lot of issues and I'm close to sure that encounters are so poorly balanced because of such things.

That's probably the short list.

If people are talking so much about Solasta it's because those games uses the same rules and because all issues of BG3's combats don't exist in it at all
(It has other issues for a wider audience, it would be stupid not to agree with you on that one)

But what does it mean ? Thats Larian's implementation/interpretation of the rules and/or homebrew are the cause of BG3's combats issues. Nothing more, nothing less.

Cool. Why did all of these arguments happen in this thread, again? Oh right, because you jumped on me from out of nowhere for even suggesting to try something else to pass the time if you have Gamepass, which wouldn't cost anyone here anything if they did.

That said, your last sentence is curiously worded. What exactly do you mean by 'these things'?

Think carefully before you respond, because you may notice that ever since this began, I have not made any comparisons to how things work in Solasta other than camera controls, which was a more general and neutral observation. My grievances with BG3's systems are based within the context of BG3 alone.

We are getting to 90 days or more out without an update to the game. The only news we got is a vague sentence referencing a community update.

Sad times.

Wait, so you only want the changes you desired before joining the forum?

Forums thrive when everyone has an open-mind. And, you might enjoy combat more with proposed changes from the opinions of others.

Baldur's Gate 3 has more potential than other cRPGs at the moment, that's a good thing. A lot of us agree that combat is the sour point of the game and needs to be changed. A lot of forum members have well-developed opinions that are similar after multiple playthroughs. It'd be good to read through the posts with an open mind.

Yeah, at this point it’s a safe bet to say we’re not getting anything until E3 at the very earliest.

That said, I imagine this wasn’t the original plan. They probably decided to do something different that required a lot of extra work. Like maybe actually making these changes, or something unexpected. The longer people wait, the more they are going to expect.

Though I heard their offices also got flooded again recently.

Honestly, I hope it is something like they chose to start to work on something super complicated like overhauling all the systems based on the feedback here, It'd definitely shut us all up for a bit before we find something else to critique heavily.
Notably, critiquing and comparing is supposed to be part of a process like this. We are supposed to look at things and say "X is not working" or "X is working good" and it is very valid for people to bring up examples of things that currently are working in another game that we feel could work in this one. And S****** is the main one of that cause it is the closest to compare with 5th Edition mechanics and concurrency. However it isn't the only one cause obviously BG1 and 2 come up often, Pathfinder is a common mentioned game, and Dragon Age occasionally pops up in conversations for doing similar things. I don't think people mentioning other games is at all bad for the EA, though notably I and some others who post a lot have gotten repetitive on the forum cause of the lack of updates addressing the things we like to focus on so I apologize if I have annoyed anyone in particular for saying the same shit or bringing up the same things because of my desire to see this game succeed.

OH hell, I sure do hope you're right about them fixing things based on feedback here =)

No I went and tried the game you recommended and it was awful. By the by, a little weird simping for another game in these forums but whatever - if the mods don't care its not my problem.

You wasted two hours of my life (Or I wasted 2 hours listening to you). Thank fully I got a refund, but guess what? I get to make fun of you and that game now, so win.

By the way, if you would like a nice free game to keep you busy that has about as much in common as the one you recommended, see below:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1610870/Chair_Simulator/



Look at you and all the fun you are having!

...Okay, you’ve officially gone off the deep end. Only one of us is getting personal. I’ve tried to be reasonable, but it’s best to cut this off now.

good lord man, do you hear yourself? "ammunition"? This is a discussion forum, just don't respond if he's bothering you.

On topic: Larian loves exposure, they're for sure waiting for E3.

Some things need to get called out. Though the one minute ammunition thought was a bit much, I admit.

On a side note, it’s a bit telling that this thread is that big. The wait is driving people nuts.

i think we all want the game to be awesome

We do. For sure. This could be the most important game for me right now, I think. <3

I am kind of choosing to believe that there being no word on what's in the next patch yet means the devs are working on something several magnitudes more major than everything needed for the Druid class. Stuff like maybe our first look at proper reactions or ready actions. Not really holding my breath, but I can imagine very little that would require so much extra work, while simultaneously introducing another dimension of combat that could break things in a rather catastrophic way in terms of bugs.

Stuff like high ground/low ground and backstabs can be modded. Reactions can't.

I hope the next patch would focus on overhauling systems community did provide the most feedback for (that could be tied nicely to the upcoming community update about how they process community feedback) and yeah, maybe first look at reactions, ready action or something similar. Would be cool.

I keep envisioning Larian taking 4+ months to release Patch 5 to the fanfare of another TRAGIC Twitch event, only to contain fixes and optimization (something that can be done in hotfix) and more stuff about RNG/dice with no new class.

And knowing Larian, that is very possible.

The lack of communication is simple.
They are going all out 100% D&D and prepared to blow us away at E3.

I was imagining something among these lines.

I'm honestly not particularly worried about the "long wait" between patches in itself. More than anything it annoys me not knowing to what it will lead to.
"We are taking our sweet ass time to address X and Y in these ways" would be completely fine, but "BIG STREAMING SHOW FOR THE BIGGEST PATCH AND COMMUNITY UPDATE YET" only to come up with a Streaming From Hell 3 or derivates, meaning a series of awkward live gags, a list of irrelevant factoids about what aggregated data says on player habits and a series of "fixes and improvements" no one really asked for, while ignoring the ones everyone and their grandma are begging for since October 2020?
That's the nightmare fuel.

Yeah, there's a reason I held off on the poll stuff. Without any idea at all on what direction the next patch is taking, any feedback gathering is really premature at this point.

I think its just part of their culture and a way to have fun and blow off steam. Honestly, given how hard this company works I am happy for them that they are able to find so much joy in being silly.

I just hope they are getting enough work/life balance and R&R so they don't burn out.

And how about "we see that some of you dont like X, but we do ... so it stays that way." ?
Since that is sentence i would also appreciate.

In some cases would be a fairly shitty outcome, and another episode in a long series of "Larian stick to their guns only to regret it months later and/or harm the overall quality of their product", but it would at very least be some transparent communication?


I find the scenario where half of the studio has to put extra work to organize a "Swen show" as a way to "have fun and blow off steam" as highly unlikely.
But even if that was somehow the case, it would still not address any other issue with their past streaming events, just give a bizarre vibe to read them.

I completely disagree. I think we are just are not used to companies that celebrate Art and Artistic expression like Larian does. Its so rare to have a CEO who loves gaming and is a gamer himself.

Half the company is more than a little hyperbolic, maybe 10-15 people max, project managers and execs mainly - the people whose job it is to manage the Larian brand and image.

Anyway, I get you're frustrated that we don't have an update. Maybe do some Yoga?

I do (and teach) boxing for a living.
I've got plenty of ways to deal with frustration, but thanks for your concern.

Also, you seem to "get" a lot wrong, especially since I've openly stated that I'm fine with the update taking long, but don't let it take away from your enthusiasm.

On May 27th 2021 after a little more than 7 months in Early Access, Solasta will finally launch its 1.0 version with all the promises made during our Kickstarter Campaign! Whereas BG3 will probably be released on May 21th 2027.

That's fine. BG3 is many many times larger in scope than S******, so it should take longer. I'd rather Larian take the time to properly make BG3 rather than rush it out quickly. Something something a delayed game is eventually good but a rushed game is bad forever. We definitely don't want BG3 to become a CP2077.

My optimistic estimate for BG3 is fall 2022, but a 2023 release date is also likely.

sarcastic quip towards Tuco aside, I agree with you about the hype team face of Larian. You know there's a good group of coders/artists/etc actually just getting down to work shaking their heads when the hype crew comes in lol.

I’m not worried about WHEN BG3 is going to release at all.
I’d say “Take your time and make it right “.

If anything I have more questions, doubts and worries about on which state that will happen.

P.S. and NO, I don’t fear a “Cyberpunk” either. What I’m concerned about is a game overlooking some fundamental design issues, not one releasing mutilated, broken or unplayable.

Yeah, it happened in the weeks before patch 4, everyone was antsy.

It seems the cycle is repeating itself... Larian has flooding at their office, the forum gets antsy... 4 weeks go by.

In good news, Larian has a history of releasing the patch/community update 2 weeks after the initial announcement. This happened for Patch 3, 4, and arguably patch 2 (Comminity Update #9: Launch didn't specifically mention CU#10: Patch 2, but it was 2 weeks before). So...here's hoping for this Feedback Community Update next week!

Please Larian, if you are reading this....

We do not need another streaming event for the next patch. The last one was inaudible and full of technical issues. That is time that could be spent on other things.

I have to say that the ongoing assumption/suggestion that they will release the patch in coincidence with the upcoming E3 seems a bit of a questionable choice.

Can't think of a better moment to get your next update completely overlooked by people than overlapping it with the timing where every other big company around will be revealing their next hype things.


P.S. Completely unrelated, but recent confirmations of Firaxis having "multiple announcements ready for this year" made me impatient about XCOM 3.

Honestly, it has its benefits and drawbacks. By showcasing it at E3, they do risk blending in with everything else, but they also can stand to benefit by gaining a ton of publicity and attracting people who otherwise wouldn't have known about the game cause it was normally outside of the circles they frequent. Personally, I'd just release the Patch when its done and save a trailer or demo for E3.

It asks why you uninstalled. I answered "It wasnt fun."

Is there a specific moment that made you want to stop playing? "All the barrels, all the non D&D content."

Please select any that apply.

Combat is too hard - Not.
Combat is too easy - Check.
I didnt enjoy the characters - Check.
The D&D content I want isnt included. - Check.
I ran out of things to do. - Not
I was lost. - Not
It doesnt meet my expectations - Check.

Do you have any feedback.

"Make it like 5e, actually use the D&D rules."

Ugh I know I'm in the minority on this, but I would much rather take the time to READ a detailed update than have to listen to a confusing streaming video any day.

I am fine with the streams and I actually enjoyed the last one, but I'd absolutely love to have a detailed list of each and every change.

I'm with you, I much prefer a straightforward written list over combing through hours of streamed 'entertainment' to find the information I'm interested in.

It probably is a minority view, but I also vastly prefer reading to watching.

The user Niara had a very competent write up summarizing why a lot of people were definitely not happy with it: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=96429&Number=757338#Post757338

Incidentally that was also more or less the time I sort of give up on my best expectations for this game and I decided to settle for way more modest outcomes.

Respectfully disagree ...
I enjoy those shows, they are funny, they are informative, and as far as i can say it seem like at least Swen is really enjoing making them. :P
Also, im a big fan of free will, so i believe that grown people should and will be able to decide what they want to do with their time.

Why it allways have to be A or B? :-/
There are patchnotes ... what else would you like? o_O
(This sounds a little agressive when i read it, but i really dont know any other words ... sory. :-/ )

You're not in the minority here, but for players overall? Definitely. People seem to love having hype over substance. I'd much rather just have a boring list, or hell, I'd really like a video with a dev just going through the changes one at a time and what they're thinking currently without trying to be HYPE!!! all the time.

I'll take both, too!

I want the Rain dancer back.

As stated, a sloppy Pannel that matches a sloppy game designed for the <millions>.
It lacks direction and vision, therefore is hard to be hopeful.

One thing is amazing news. Baldurs gate 2 and the modding community still going strong.
Building new quests, new playable characters, tons of content!

Another is Pathfinder Wrath of the rightheous. Turning out to be everything BG3 should of been, minus the cringy cinematic dialogues. Soon to be released.

Two weeks ago promised update soon**** and nothing yet. Maybe in 30 more days.

I'm waiting for Larian people to start TEASING Patch #5 on twitter and then starting the two-weeks countdown for the public community update, followed by the actual patch MAYBE one week later.
See you in a while.

Unless you're the Solasta devs, in which 'soon' usually meant 'less than a week before we announce an update that was at most 2 weeks away from releasing'. Though the devs there make it very clear that they're working within reasonable limitations and not shooting for the moon, which is a rarity in this industry.

Then again, they also might have adopted that approach because they saw quite a number of people raging about the wait for BG3's patch 4 release within their own discord, and decided they didn't want any of that business.

E3 is June 12 to 15, so perhaps the twitter teasing for patch 5 will commence next week!

My hopes:
Game gets 2 more years of dev. For more playablr NPCs and content.
Grittier and darker, more adult game. Not just, heres <sex>now its adult. Adult THEMES and dialogues.
Revamped controls and UI.

Like what?

More underdark, no darkvision and lots of spores

Wracking my brain on this one as well.

we have:
Genocide
Torture
Cannibalism
Slavery
Whatever is going on with Volo and that Goblin.
Forced impregnation
Kidnapping
Murder
Theft
Debauchery
Alcoholism
Racism
baby eating

...Off the top of my head. I just think we have become desensitized to what constitutes 'adult'.

Agreed, it's already pretty dark as it is!!
You encounter a talking brain in half a human skull on the operating table in the first 3 minutes of the game. Definitely not for kids.

The point is probably more that you are never really thinking about those things. They are presented for a shock effect and then they are gone and never mentioned again.

Either i missed something ...
Or this is the most collorfull description of inserting tadpole i ever seen.

To be fair, the sex only happens once in the game so far, as well. :P

Not everything on that list is a one-time occurrence, though. Well - Abdirak is definitely just there for kinky shock value.
But the Tiefling refugees are pretty traumatised about their experiences, and you hear several different NPCs' perspectives. So you do pause to think about their stories as they're presented several times.
Racism is mentioned or implied in various conversations, especially if you are a Drow or a Tiefling.
Astarion's 200 years of slavery have clearly left their mark on him - figuratively and literally.
There is no way to have a happy ending for Mayrina's story, and she implies she is going to Baldur's Gate so you may encounter her there again. In fact several NPCs mention this, so we aren't seeing the last of many of them.
I'm sure the more the game keeps going, the more messed up and dramatic the issues and resulting choices will become.

I was thinking in terms of Ridley Scotts Alien.

A lot has been written about the symbolism behind things like this.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/qvdn4d/alien-is-sci-fi-horrors-most-feminist-movie-franchise

https://screenrant.com/alien-movie-chestburster-sexual-assault-meaning/

Improved controls and UI, that's the content adults are looking for ;-)

On Adult themes, not talking about NSFW stuff, we have elements of the fear of the loss of self, the question of the worth of power, the question of evil doing good and good doing evil, the worth of isolationism vs helping refugees, and even discussions of taboo topics like the worth of selling one's soul.

It is a very widespread common - and very dumb - misconception to believe that

"adult" = grim

however, this is not so.

"Adult" means for me, a 50 years old man, this :


Bureaucracy (like paying taxes)
Chronic illnessess
Being a disabled person myself ("Well, that is why I don't have a hand anymore.")
Myasthenia
Lookism ("Uh, that one is looking so ugly, I won't give him the job !")
Birthday parties ("Which of our friends are we going to invite so nobody feels like being neglected ?"
- "So, our kid wants to throw a party. How many children can we endure ?"
- So, our teenager had been throwing a party while we were visiting Aunt Whatshername - and now we have destroyed furniture, painted walls, the bad smell of far too much alcohol, a teenager in a police cell, and I think something was stolen too. And who put the hamster into the microwave oven ? Thank god nobody turned that thing on !")
Avoiding bullies (for example in the tram) and extremists
Violence in general (hooligans, criminals)
Washing dirty clothes (yes, that is something that needs to be done as well !)
Washing the disjes (dito)
Cleaning the remants of the digesting of the household animals' food ("The dog must go out. Who of us does it ?")
Politics (or discussing it)
Ethics
Raising children ("... needs new t-shirts again !" - "Ask grandma if she can knit a few more socks because that winter is going to be COLD !"))
Keeping children away from dangers
Car accidents
Prices for car repairs and of course for gas, too !
Securing the house in defense against burglars
Trying not to get things stolen
Household accidents (the grandmother of a co-worker died a few months ago from falling down on dark cellar stairs after fetching beverage)
Spirituality (yes, nobody wants that, but for some people, it's important, and for some people, it even contains actually *more* athan going to church)
The question whether the money will be enough to feed everyone & pay the bills
Prices going up ("Oh no ! The rent has become even more expensive ! From what are we supposed to live now ?")
Working times ("And who looks after the children ?")
Illnesses of the own children
Preventive medical checkup
Where is the neares public toilet ? ("I'm on the motorhighway now, my stomach rumbles violently, perhaps I must vomit, and nowhere there is a toilet to be seen ...")
Bad meals and good meals in the firm's cantina
Bad smells (farts)
Bad smells (far too much perfume or hair treatment spray)
Intrigue at work
Bullying (co-workers, or sometimes it's even the boss)
Repairing holes in clothes
Getting insects out of the household (like ants)
Trying not to get parasits from going out for a walk into nature (like ticks, for example)

Nobody wants to hear that, but these are actually "adult" themes. Like bureaucracy, for example, Nobody likes that. Nobody likes calculating taxes. It's an un pleasant work teenagers normally never have contact with.
Or, raising teenagers in general. Lots of drama.
Or bullying. Parents have to fdeal with their children being bullied as well. And with other parents denying that *their* children were bullying others.

Very funny, but actually right. It's a lot harder to write a more subtle story with adult themes that don't involve outright violence or an implied threat of violence, because they rely less on grimdark shock value and literally beating you over the head with the themes. Though there is also a point where shock value goes so far off the charts that it becomes comically edgy and juvenile too.

It's why I actually hold the opinion that Pathfinder: Kingmaker or WotR for instance are a lot more sophisticated and mature than the likes of DOS2 and the current state of BG3, even if the presentation doesn't seem like it on a skin deep analysis level because the Pathfinder games don't twist themselves into pretzels waxing as much philosophy as, say, Pillars of Eternity. Those worlds are very convincing and most importantly don't focus entirely on the main characters, which is a much harder thing to pull off.

This is a list of things adults (but also kids for some of them) encounter/have to deal with, but that doesn't make them "adult themes."

"Themes" refers to a subject explored, which means it has to do more than just happen once. It should be an integral part of the story, or at the very least discussed by the characters for the reader/viewer to consider, and usually comes with an intended message. And the "adult" part of "adult themes" more refers to material that we don't want to expose children to, rather than just things kids have less experience of. Chronic illness, racism/sexism/ableism, violence (more than just random violence; e.g., exploring what motivates people to violence or the effects it has on victims), poverty, death of close family. These are adult themes.

Taxes, repairing holes in clothes, washing dishes, hosting birthday parties, and getting insects out of the household aren't adult themes by themselves. They'd need to be a larger part of, for example, a family's poverty and showing how the parents struggle to provide for their kids in a cruel, unjust world.

Well... we already are surrounded by THOSE adult themes. Personally, I play games to get away from those things for a little while. Also, Dragon Age series did an excellent job of exploring politics, religion, and so forth. However, it was a very different game than BG3.

Back to BG3, if you want to analyse it further, Mayrina's story is probably the best example of an "adult theme". The poor woman loved her husband so much, she couldn't bear to lose him, and lost her mind instead - she was willing to sacrifice her unborn child to resurrect her husband. And there was no way to do that, of course, so she ended up with a zombie husband following her to Baldur's Gate. Dark fantasy, yes - symbolic representation of grief and depression, maybe. But after trying this quest every which way and realising there was no good way of resolving it for her, as a mother I had mental images of this zombie husband and a tiny newborn baby and it just disturbed the heck out of me.
Also, Astarion's reaction didn't help!!! (I chose it for his approval anyway, because at that point there is nothing you can do, so you either cry or you laugh, and maybe he's got a good point after all.)

That's really sad.

Uh oh, I think we've found someone who thinks escapism is a dirty word. I'd call down the wrath of J.R.R. Tolkien's On Fairy-Stories, except I'd rather go have fun playing a video game than deal with this real life crap...

Escapism and Discussion of Real World Issues are both good things and do not have to be mutually exclusive, cause escapism depends on the viewers ability to essentially be sucked into that world and not think directly of the real world.

huh, I think it's totally normal and healthy

Yes. Thank you both. Wanting a break from IRL is not bad in any way, and it does not mean by default that something is wrong with a individual in any way. Having your brain work with creative stories, fantasies and imagination is a clear sign of a healthy and functional brain - a concept that far and widely spread among most psychological institutes. Unfortunately, many adults lose their creativity and imagination as they grow older due to focusing too much on the "adult stuff" in real life, and that is... Unfortunate. :[ Many great authors and scientists, encourage adults to continue to stimulate their childish side (don't stigmatize the word <3) by engaging in curiosity, imagination, creativity and fantasy.

And this is EXACTLY what games like BG3 does and that is EXACTLY why games like BG3 are awesome.

Either way, I believe both Larian and I would like to leave as much of the irl discussion back as possible - so addressing the other part of the conversation:


This is a list of things adults (but also kids for some of them) encounter/have to deal with, but that doesn't make them "adult themes."

I disagree about "nobody wanting to hear all that" - these kind of themes are seen time and time again in modern movies, novels and series.

And while I most certainly get your perspective when you say that these are more "adult themes" than just sex and violence - I think that is a matter of not agreeing on what "adult theme" is about. "Adult theme" does not mean that it is necessary stuff that interest or relate more to adults than teens or children - BUT, it is stuff that might not be appropriate for children and teens according to our current standards. Sexual content might be less interesting for a mature adult, but according to the standards of many countries - sexual content in movies and games is simply inappropriate for children, regardless of how interested and/or curious they are about it. And as such, it is labeled as "adult content" as society has decided that they are the only audience that can handle violence and sexual content and process it in a "good" way.

The stuff that you talked about is often mentioned, but in more creative ways, in children and teen content as well - sometimes to a rather large extent.

Anyhow - while I think that many of these things can be (and in many cases are) implemented in games, both for adults, teens and children, but in appropriate levels for a fantasy setting. The hints and struggles of an adult is there (I could list them both in BG3 and from other famous movies, literature and games, but that would be rather time consuming and pointless >.< ), but in small levels so one can focus on the entire fantasy part of the story (heroes and villains, exciting battles and, of course, the story itself).

I mean, all big masterpieces - both in movies, games and literature, contains these elements to some extent since it makes the entire story more relatable and believable. But, often (in fantasy, horror and action etc settings) on appropriate levels to stay on the main topic of the story.

I try to practice Gratitude every single day. Today I am grateful that you are not involved with writing this game.

And listen, I am not saying those are not adult themes - but usually when we refer to adult themes we would consider it something that should be supplemented by a mature adult if a child was exposed to it. There are some examples on your list that qualify and a lot that really don't. For exampled: on my list Slavery and Racism should be supplemented with discussion, however (checks your list) - "Bad smells (Farts)" doesn't really require any supplementation. Although if that is something you are having trouble with you may want to consider the children's book "Everybody Poops" by Tarō Gomi. I've heard great things.

Ok, good luck and happy reading!

Oh I don't know... Still alive, still safely carrying her child, and on her way to Bg (with her safely ambulatory zombified husband), where she might find someone who can raise said zombified husband properly provided she can scrape together the means to pay for it or work out an agreement... and if you clear out the swamp first, but don't talk to the witch or enter her house, and only then go back and do the road-side encounter, and side with the idiot brothers, they survive as well... I'd count that as a 'positive as you can hope for' outcome for now...

Well RAW. Her husband going from dead to Zombie (Undead) just made things 50x worse. See before she would have been looking at a Raise Dead spell - about 500g - likely out of her price range unless she can somehow scrape together that huge sum of money but theoretically possible.

Now that her Husband is Undead she would need at minimum a True Resurrection Spell, Cost? 25,000 gold. She could take her chances with a Reincarnation spell for 1,000 Gold if he has only been dead less than 10 days, but she risks getting a totally random race.

Just fyi, Revivify is only supposed to work if used within a minute of death.

No, Mayrina is screwed. She would have been better just taking him in the wheelbarrow and getting a low level necromancer to cast Gentle Repose for a couple copper pieces.

Mayrina is the worst. She reminds me of the main character, Dorothy, in the show Servant. Her flaw is in her inability to say goodbye. She already got two other people killed and she nearly ended up creating another Green Hag with her behavior.

I would say her flaw was the willingness to give up her infant to a hag. Would be hilarious if we found her as a street wench in BG with her zombie husband has her bodyguard. Or maybe they can raise gold for the scrolls by having people pay 1g to throw a rock at him.

Once you re-kill the zombie, it's not a zombie any more - it's just a corpse again, and if she's lucky a corpse that has only been dead within one of the shorter time brackets. You couldn't raise him from his zombie state, but you could put him down, and then raise him, provided the body was intact enough.

You're right, of course, that sourcing some gentle repose would have been a FAR better option... she's going to be looking at at least the 1 year time scale by this point, even at best, I'd wager.

(I agree, she's not a favourable character... just not entirely hopeless yet, if you wrangle it right, I feel.)

Dude, you are saying that is sad, all the while you being a self admitted D&D player/DM that is a game based in pure fantasy. One should not cast stones in a glass house.

Patchs based on larions show of how they are at releasing content in the patchs to be tested you will get 2 more classes this year then be waiting all next year for the next 3 and then you still have races and additional content to come out.

Regards to the game itself its graphics are amazing what little of the game exists is good. But regards to how well they are at keeping the public interested its pretty bottom of the barrel.

Currently there are 3 main stream crpgs all who have been on content release and production for the games.

WoTR, BG3 and Solasta.

Graphics - BG3 edges in quality of design on characters and the vocals / cinematics. Story line is just as good with pathfinder but your reading text controls are just as smooth if not smoother. Larger party size. Down side its not 5e so classes lack balance they have in 5e. Solastas interactions are better for partys mechanics in combat are rated more true to the rules and combat is based on content rated better. Though I would not 100% agree on that because i think bg 3 still has things to correct with its combat. Larion is the least communicative of all 3 companies and releases content the slowest of all 3 companies. In comparison if I was recommending a person to pick up a game currently I would recommend WOTR over BG3 as a game. Mostly because BG3 is way to slow with content release currently and has the worst communication. In comparison WOTR the end game will probably not be as good as the finally finished version of BG3 the problem is that finally finished version at the rate content is being given out in early access we wont see it till 2023 and they company is bad at communicating. Like the worst at communicating.

I said it before and ill say it again...For the amount of content they are producing at the rate they are producing it I would expect alot more. We should be testing 2 new classes by next month at the bare minimum right now while I do not expect it on the same results on full release I would say they are not up to expectations. If I had a friend asking me should I get bg 3 I would say no wait at least till after the next patch. I had 2 friends ask me if they should bother streaming coming back to try the new content I answered them not to bother wait for the next patch because youll be bored in 2 weeks with the amount of content release in last patch 2 weeks after that youll be sitting here on the forums checking for new content and be dissappointed still 2 months after that waiting for something else.

If we were getting a class or a race added every 2 months with a couple of items added. It would probably keep most of us busy enough to not get bored before the next patch is released. If we had 2-3 more zones to play through with each patch we might get 3 months out of it but when you look the average patch release is every 4-5 months your gonna lose interest fast. During EA and be dissappointed with time it takes for new content.

-----

That is not to say the game is bad the rate at which content is added and fixed is bad. Because its not enough to keep people busy. Its also not to compare the game to say mmos or collections games which need large content patches every 3 months just to keep people invested. But in the this case for the game to be viable to keep peoples interest you need more content at a better release rate than the existing content to keep people interested.

Also with current estimates from most people expecting mid june before content comes out. Assuming some of the covid restrictions get lifted even if they release a ton of new content no one is going to touch it after spending better part of a year cooped up inside summer is the one time most people if they can get out would rather be outside than inside for a breather from being inside.

Ok, so this is good, I have been trying to figure this out FOREVER. So there is one camp that says if you kill a Zombie its still undead, its just a dead undead. There is another camp that says if you kill a zombie then the zombie is no longer undead, its just dead.

So best case Revivify and Raise Dead are off the table because of Organ loss, and time restrictions (1 minute, 10 days respectively) - UNLESS you use Gentle Repose which halts the time limit for 10 days per casting and is super cheap to cast. Which means she would be able to use a Resurrection spell to bring her husband back since it has a 100 year time limit - cost: 1000 gold.

But here is where things get confusing. The wording is VERY strange on Resurrection:

"You touch a dead creature that has been dead for no more than a century, that didn’t die of old age, and that isn’t undead. If its soul is free and willing, the target returns to life with all its hit points.
This spell neutralizes any poisons and cures normal diseases afflicting the creature when it died. It doesn’t, however, remove magical diseases, curses, and the like; if such effects aren’t removed prior to casting the spell, they afflict the target on its return to life."


as opposed to True Resurrection:
"You touch a creature that has been dead for no longer than 200 years and that died for any reason except old age. If the creature’s soul is free and willing, the creature is restored to life with all its hit points.
This spell closes all wounds, neutralizes any poison, cures all diseases, and lifts any curses affecting the creature when it died. The spell replaces damaged or missing organs and limbs.
The spell can even provide a new body if the original no longer exists, in which case you must speak the creature’s name. The creature then appears in an unoccupied space you choose within 10 feet of you."


So is a dead zombie a dead undead or just dead? Do you have a good source for that?

For the attention of nobody in particular, let's make sure we don't get too snarky, please. As for Alrik's comment, I read that as promoting games as escapism because RL "adult content" is pants, which I'm inclined to agree with; sometimes we can have more than enough adulting as it is without turning the grimdark up to 11 too...

Not to be that person, but it is obvious with the Larian clues in the Hag lair that Mayrina will run into the Hag again in the city and still have her child taken from her.

Moving aside from zombies for a second...

Reading these spell descriptions, suddenly I have a sinking feeling they had a reason for choosing 200 years as the exact amount of time Astarion has been undead. :O What if we have to somehow resurrect him as a normal living elf but can't because he's technically been dead/undead just that little bit too long? Aaaaaagh! (Theorycrafting angst is the worst.)

Perhaps you should turn your theorycrafting loose upon


I think it's going to be very relevant to the problem you mention above. But that's just my own theory.

That's been an unfortunate thought of mine since I heard him say "200 years"! I was like oh noooo what are we gonna do...

meanwhile me,

https://i.imgur.com/uapB9F5.gif

One of the greatest movies ever made, really.
Edgar Wright is a genius.

So according to my research a dead zombie is a dead undead and cannot be returned to regular life with a Raise dead or Resurrection spell. However, you can restore a zombie to undeath by using Revivify on it. But to restore it to its old alive self you need True Resurrection.

Basically Mayrina is screwed. Best of the bad options is to tell her to go bury her husband or drag his body to Baldur's Gate.

Man this is so nostalgic. Remember when we had to wait a month for any signs of life from this game?

Poor kittens ...
Do you know that for some other games, developers went silent for one and half year right now?
And last 3 news they give to us was: Lead Writer was fired ... Lead Director was fired ... Entire studio was fired.

This is nothing, compared. :P

So because it can be worse Larian is okay? It's like saying that if I'm a thief but there are murderers in the world I'm good

Bcs it can be worse, it can be worse. Nothing more, nothing less.
And Larian is okay, yes .. but not bcs there are worse, but bc its quite okay.
Its shocking i know.

To work with your example ...
You are comparing Larian to Thief ...
And from that example, since you used murderer as another example ... i dare to presume that you are comparing Larian to some kind of Thief, that is stealing million worth cars.
I see Larian as some kid rascal, who "stole" a slice of pie to his mother, even tho she forbid that.

It certainly can disapoint some people ... but its really not earthshaking crime.

Ragnarok has a good point. We are kinda being a bit impatient. Its hard not to be excited about updates though. There are also a LOT of companies that have been truly awful about updates.

I was just thinking about Vampire The Masquerade Bloodlines 2 is not releasing this year and I haven't seen an update since they fired the entire studio.

There are development studios that have gone VERY long periods of time without any update or just disappeared into the ether.

Hell, even Valheim has been slow with updates.

your condescending attitude doesn't help anything. You're fine with the lack of news, great. Some people aren't. No one said Larian committed a literal crime, they're just venting their displeasure on a game forum. Also, adding a bunch of :P :X comes across very passive aggressive :P

Remember to be awesome to each other, guys.

Blackheifer get it.
It warmed my heart. ^_^

BTW about Bloodlines ... if you dont count the info that HSL is no longer working on it, there is another half-year of silence ... and if you dont count the info, that Brian Mitsoda is no longer working on it ...
And i believe you can "not count" them both, since none of them is telling you anything about the game really ... kinda last "news" we get was in August 2020, and it was "there is COVID and its hard to work like this" (nothing new actualy, also not exactly telling anything about the game) ... so if you want to count some "news" about the game itself, it was DD#12, released in 22 Jul 2020.
Since then? Nothing really.

So on one hand we have studio that promised release in Q1 (March i belive was original date?) 2020 ... and since start of Q3 2020 didnt tell litteraly anything about it ...

And on other hand we have studio, that moved first release by month, and since then is providing game, updates, and from time to time even new content ... and even tho they never promised (as far as i know, feel free to corect me) that another patches will be coming out regulary, nor any specific dates for any of them ... people keep requesting them. O_o

Feel free to judge me, but i really dont think that we have right to be frustrated here.
IF Larian was promissing us, as name of this topic say "the patch every 2 weeks" that would be entirely different situation ... but as i said abowe, im not aware of that.

And we all are free to express oureselves.
So i guess ballance maintained itself.

Neither did i ...
I was only providing values for variables in someone else (Abits) example.

There is nothing agresive about Smilies ...
Smilies are there to add tone that letters are lacking.

How else can you tell if text was written as a joke, or in deadly serious mind, if not by adding: ":D" or "-_-" ?

You're right, its been longer than I realized since there was any news at all. It was supposed to be released November 2020, then one delay because of COVID then Paradox fires the Lead, and the dev house.

They don't even have a new studio hired yet, and honestly who would sign up for this? Even once they get a new studio it will take them 6 + months to get up to speed and organized to continue work?

To be honest I have a mixed opinion about Brian Mitsoda. On the one hand he worked on the original Bloodlines, and wrote the story. On the other hand he worked on Tides of Numenera, which was garbage.

Vampires: Bloodlines 2 is also a complete failure of a production.
Last I heard about it from a friend in the gaming press (and with ties at Paradox) they are scrapping whatever was already done and the publisher itself openly stated doesn't expect a release before 2023 AT BEST.

I wouldn't take it as a virtuous model of anything.
Basically all the downsides of a mid budget production with the costs of a triple A.

It also wasn't an Early Access that sort-of promised to keep a direct line with the user base about how the project was evolving over time, so they had absolutely no "moral obligation" until release to communicate better in that sense.

In fact I started this post to point the "minor differences" but now the more I think about it the more it seems an apples and oranges comparison no matter how I look at it.


P.S. It's also worth stressing that most people aren't really unhappy with the lack of a patch in itself (while admittedly it may not help the mood) as much as they are with how "secretive" Larian is being about what they are working on.
They are basically running an EA where they mostly act as if they felt absolutely no need to tell us anything of what they are doing.
And no, I'm sorry, but a blog post every few months with a bunch of factoids about players' habits (according to aggregated data) is not exactly the same that telling us "We are aware of this issue, we are going to do this about it" (or the evergreen alternative: "Tough luck suckers! We are doing whatever we feel like and you are going to eat this shit up with a smile".