Larian Studios
This is a thought that I've had for a long time now and discussed in other threads before, but how many of you still think that they will read and pay attention to our gameplay ideas?

I have the feeling all they care is to use us for stability play-testing and bug reporting only, since no official gameplay surveys have been made, this forum is old and hasn't been optimized to highlight the posts that people like the most, a like button, an upvoting system... I haven't seen official community managers commenting on these forums either, or even acknowledging that they are reading our ideas.

What are your thoughts on the matter? Maybe I am wrong about it, but I think that if they really cared about that they would be focused on that already since some of the changes we are suggesting are going to take a long time and need a complete rework of some areas or mechanics of the game (like camping mechanics or dialogues and party size).
I guess they gather some feedback but cannot expect they will follow each and every idea they would find here.
I made a long post that discusses this, so I'm mostly with you.

https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=734500#Post734500
I think some of you will continue down this moronic thought process in spite of all the evidence to the contrary. It fits perfectly with US society. Fake news. Feels are more important than facts. etc.
Oh good, another one of these threads.

Larian cares about feedback. The ways in which they can implement that feedback, even if it is very good, are limited. We have no idea what they are and aren't working on, and they don't need to tell us.
And for the people who was there for DOS 2 Early access... was the game really bad at the beginning and Larian heard the player's opinions and improved the game a lot?

Cause BG3 right now has solid issues on game design. That is what worries me the most, bugs and crashes of course are expected, but some decisions like party movement, dialogues, travelling and camping mechanics, and custom characters being soulless mute mannequins is what troubles me the most, it doesn't seem like they are going to change their mind on the way they chose to do those things...
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Oh good, another one of these threads.

Larian cares about feedback. The ways in which they can implement that feedback, even if it is very good, are limited. We have no idea what they are and aren't working on, and they don't need to tell us.


I'm pretty sure I just posted in a thread like this a few days ago...so would you say every few days we get this?


Originally Posted by drimaxus
And for the people who was there for DOS 2 Early access... was the game really bad at the beginning and Larian heard the player's opinions and improved the game a lot?

Cause BG3 right now has solid issues on game design. That is what worries me the most, bugs and crashes of course are expected, but some decisions like party movement, dialogues, travelling and camping mechanics, and custom characters being soulless mute mannequins is what troubles me the most, it doesn't seem like they are going to change their mind on the way they chose to do those things...




What changed?

Pretty sure there was a post earlier where you can get the general hint they listen from interviews if you really want to know.
Originally Posted by drimaxus
Cause BG3 right now has solid issues on game design. That is what worries me the most, bugs and crashes of course are expected, but some decisions like party movement, dialogues, travelling and camping mechanics, and custom characters being soulless mute mannequins is what troubles me the most, it doesn't seem like they are going to change their mind on the way they chose to do those things...


BG3 EA was released in much earlier development than DOS2. That is why I don't expect this game before 2022.

New engine, new rule system, cinematics and bigger scope, it is their first AAA. They rushed to do EA, but for a polished final product will take much longer.
Originally Posted by fallenj
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MUdH5DoACY&t=1793s

What changed?

Pretty sure there was a post earlier where you can get the general hint they listen from interviews if you really want to know.


Dear god, I hadn't checked any of the early DOS2 EA footage before, holly, it's an entirely different game compared to what we have now. I am legit impressed. This gives me hope that stuff will be dramatically changed by the time BG3 1.0 is here.
Originally Posted by Nicottia
Originally Posted by fallenj
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MUdH5DoACY&t=1793s

What changed?

Pretty sure there was a post earlier where you can get the general hint they listen from interviews if you really want to know.


Dear god, I hadn't checked any of the early DOS2 EA footage before, holly, it's an entirely different game compared to what we have now. I am legit impressed. This gives me hope that stuff will be dramatically changed by the time BG3 1.0 is here.


What do you mean? Not much has changed, the EA doesn't have the voice acting and the game received some new skills, some balance changes and two extra origin characters before launch but that is pretty much it. That seems like a lot to you? Check this thread for more details:

https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/io18gb/for_reference_changes_during_the_divinity/
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies


Larian cares about feedback. The ways in which they can implement that feedback, even if it is very good, are limited. We have no idea what they are and aren't working on, and they don't need to tell us.


There are studios that tell you what they are working on and ask for feedback that gets implemented into the game, examples are Paradox Development, Hello Games, Avalanche studios. As a matter of fact I've had the experience of being the first suggesting a mechanic that got implemented into the game afterwards and that felt so gratifying, to feel like they actually read what the community is saying... I don't feel like that with Larian. There is nobody from Larian in this forums, actively reading and answering posts!
Originally Posted by drimaxus
What do you mean? Not much has changed, the EA doesn't have the voice acting and the game received some new skills, some balance changes and two extra origin characters before launch but that is pretty much it. That seems like a lot to you? Check this thread for more details:

https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/io18gb/for_reference_changes_during_the_divinity/


Have you even read this reddit post you linked? Cause it's a lot more than added 'voice acting', 'new skills', 'some balance changes' and new origin characters before launch. DOS2 in the beginning didn't even have this tutorial zone (da boat, equivalent of our nautiloid), no movies/cinematics in the beginning (yknow, the stuff that replaces that letter in the beginning of the YT vid). Hell, even graphically, from what I can tell, if the YT vid had it on high/ultra, characters and environment had a lot less detail than they do now, what sure, with technological improvements obviously the older games will look better, duh.

As of now, a bit over 1 month into the EA I really don't understand some of these complaints. Some small changes were already patched in, bigger changes will take time. Some of you are complaining for the sake of complaining. I personally have already sent quite huge bug reports to Larian that still haven't been patched in... and I don't expect them to be patched for the next few months and I'm talking about GAMEBREAKING bugs, not just small ones, cause finding the cause of those bugs (which I wrote to them how to replicate them and at what points they appear exactly) and alienating them in the code without breaking even more stuff is going to take time. I would be surprised if they got fixed in the upcoming patch. You people need to take a chill pill and get some patience.

Originally Posted by drimaxus
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies


Larian cares about feedback. The ways in which they can implement that feedback, even if it is very good, are limited. We have no idea what they are and aren't working on, and they don't need to tell us.


There are studios that tell you what they are working on and ask for feedback that gets implemented into the game, examples are Paradox Development, Hello Games, Avalanche studios. As a matter of fact I've had the experience of being the first suggesting a mechanic that got implemented into the game afterwards and that felt so gratifying, to feel like they actually read what the community is saying... I don't feel like that with Larian. There is nobody from Larian in this forums, actively reading and answering posts!




So basically you want to have your ego stroked by (in Larian's case) large developers listening to you and implementing your ideas into the game?

If you really want them to listen to you, send your ideas to them via the feedback button on the launcher. Or even do all - launcher feedback, forums and reddit, if you want to ensure you are heard.
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
We have no idea what they are and aren't working on, and they don't need to tell us.



And in regards to "they don't need to tell us" well, they asked our money and support in advance, as a vote of confidence so they very well should keep us updated on what is going on and what is coming soon, don't you agree?

If you ask someone for their money in advance and you ask them to trust you the least you can do is assign someone in your team to keep in touch with them and let them be part of the process. Think about kickstarters for example, when people invest in you and trust your name you should not let them down because I know for sure if BG3 dissapoints me I won't buy another Larian game, and that will happen with a lot of other people too.
Originally Posted by drimaxus
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
We have no idea what they are and aren't working on, and they don't need to tell us.



And in regards to "they don't need to tell us" well, they asked our money and support in advance, as a vote of confidence so they very well should keep us updated on what is going on and what is coming soon, don't you agree?

If you ask someone for their money in advance and you ask them to trust you the least you can do is assign someone in your team to keep in touch with them and let them be part of the process. Think about kickstarters for example, when people invest in you and trust your name you should not let them down because I know for sure if BG3 dissapoints me I won't buy another Larian game, and that will happen with a lot of other people too.


Fire said "need" you are arguing "should". Different ideas. Both correct IMO.
Originally Posted by RumRunner151
I think some of you will continue down this moronic thought process in spite of all the evidence to the contrary. It fits perfectly with US society. Fake news. Feels are more important than facts. etc.

Not sure what US society has to do with a Belgian game developer or vice versa, but kindly don't use gratuitously inflammatory descriptions like "moronic thought process", thanks.
I understand people defending Larian because "reasons", I really do. Do bare in mind however most people react to their current experience and cannot draw on the tadpole to psychicly draw motive from a silent development team. While I have good insticts they do not extend to reading Decembers patch notes in Novemeber or determining mechanical changes Larian will be implementing at a later date using blind optimism.

Until I develop the gift of tadpole imposed optimistic clairvoyance I will have to rely on actual feedback from Larian. laugh
Originally Posted by Nicottia
Originally Posted by fallenj
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MUdH5DoACY&t=1793s

What changed?

Pretty sure there was a post earlier where you can get the general hint they listen from interviews if you really want to know.


Dear god, I hadn't checked any of the early DOS2 EA footage before, holly, it's an entirely different game compared to what we have now. I am legit impressed. This gives me hope that stuff will be dramatically changed by the time BG3 1.0 is here.

Most of the things that were added had nothing to do with feedback, they were just featured they were going to add regardless.
During DOS2 EA the forum was full of dozens of theads complaining about how the armour system felt bad and video gamey, yet that issue was unaddressed until Swen Vincke said in some post-release interview that it probably shouldn't have been added after all.

Originally Posted by drimaxus
I haven't seen official community managers commenting on these forums either, or even acknowledging that they are reading our ideas.


So since Vometia thinks my response was inflammatory, I will provide facts that directly dispute the OPs claims and hope that is not inflammatory.

Larian responding to a feedback thread: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=94360&Number=731263#Post731263
Larian commenting that they are working on fixing a problem: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=87598&Number=731133#Post731133
Larian thanking us for the feedback we have been providing and giving us a hotfix: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=93920&Number=723217#Post723217
Larian thanking us for our feedback and asking us to continue. https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=87468&Number=677655#Post677655
And that's just here in these forums.

What about a quote from the man himself a week ago where he says they are listening to people's complaints and considering ways to address them: “We see the people that have really bad luck, and they are really, really angry over it. So, we're going to help them. We're going to add modes to the game that are going to go with things like a loaded die, and that's going to be a bit more manageable. We'll still keep the option of having full RNG in there. We'll experiment with that throughout early access, and see what we should make the default option. That's one of the things that will be driven by the analytics.” https://www.ign.com/articles/baldurs-gate-3-early-access-changes-player-data-feedback-larian

Sorry if my earlier post was inflammatory, but I feel this thread is inflammatory since it is contradicted by factual evidence that is not hard to find if you look for it.
Originally Posted by RumRunner151

Originally Posted by drimaxus
I haven't seen official community managers commenting on these forums either, or even acknowledging that they are reading our ideas.


So since Vometia thinks my response was inflammatory, I will provide facts that directly dispute the OPs claims and hope that is not inflammatory.

Larian responding to a feedback thread: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=94360&Number=731263#Post731263
Larian commenting that they are working on fixing a problem: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=87598&Number=731133#Post731133
Larian thanking us for the feedback we have been providing and giving us a hotfix: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=93920&Number=723217#Post723217
Larian thanking us for our feedback and asking us to continue. https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=87468&Number=677655#Post677655
And that's just here in these forums.

What about a quote from the man himself a week ago where he says they are listening to people's complaints and considering ways to address them: “We see the people that have really bad luck, and they are really, really angry over it. So, we're going to help them. We're going to add modes to the game that are going to go with things like a loaded die, and that's going to be a bit more manageable. We'll still keep the option of having full RNG in there. We'll experiment with that throughout early access, and see what we should make the default option. That's one of the things that will be driven by the analytics.” https://www.ign.com/articles/baldurs-gate-3-early-access-changes-player-data-feedback-larian

Sorry if my earlier post was inflammatory, but I feel this thread is inflammatory since it is contradicted by factual evidence that is not hard to find if you look for it.


On the one hand, this list of very specific comments doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence about Larian's willingness to change any of their initial plans.

But since we didn't get anything more concrete, we can make some safe assumptions on the matter:
1) Larian does read these forums, otherwise it might have been impossible for them to find these specific posts
2) Larian is willing to respond in some cases.
Now the rest is pure speculation and depends on the way one chooses to interpret these safe assumptions. You can be very pessimistic and say they only care about fixing bugs and use us to do so, or you can be optimistic and say they only respond to things they have a plan for and already started working on.
Posted By: Ari Re: Larian doesn't care about our gameplay ideas - 17/11/20 09:34 AM
I get the feeling confirmation bias will be strong in these threads down the line...
Why don't they just tell us "We're reading our forum, don't worry"
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Why don't they just tell us "We're reading our forum, don't worry"

Now that's a good question. Man's hearts hold Shadows darker than any tainted creature
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Why don't they just tell us "We're reading our forum, don't worry"

You mean like when they said: "...we are hugely appreciative of those who have so far provided feedback. Please continue to do so."
Originally Posted by RumRunner151
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Why don't they just tell us "We're reading our forum, don't worry"

You mean like when they said: "...we are hugely appreciative of those who have so far provided feedback. Please continue to do so."

I guess confirmation bias is a thing
Originally Posted by RumRunner151
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Why don't they just tell us "We're reading our forum, don't worry"

You mean like when they said: "...we are hugely appreciative of those who have so far provided feedback. Please continue to do so."


it can be reviews on twitter or reddit, or through a special feedback form. But they did not say anything about the Larian Studio forum
Larian never promised to implement gameplay ideas of random people from the forum and they should never do that. They wanted feedback, which helps them know what features people like and what dislike but Larian will be working according to their own vision, not a vision of some angry forum poster. Obviously some feedback on feedback would have been great but I understand why they want to keep silence. People just get angry if they are bluntly told that their ideas are horrible and won't be implemented.
I recommend watching Panel From Hell, Swen and Adam talk a lot about EA philosophy and how feedback IS important to Larian. (I think most feedback-related stuff is from 1:07:30.)

Of course you could say they're just lying, but... well, for now we have no good grounds for claiming that. The Composer (mod) is occasionaly chiming in and saying that yes, they're actively gathering feedback. They need some time to process it, as I understand they've severely underestimated player numbers (and amount of feedback to come). The communication could be better, but rushing with patches would not be good.

One thing I'm worried about is how far they're willing to go with changes to the game. Swen gave the example of D:OS2 changing during EA, but from what I see it wasn't that much. BG3 needs much greater changes and a lot of work.
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Originally Posted by RumRunner151
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Why don't they just tell us "We're reading our forum, don't worry"

You mean like when they said: "...we are hugely appreciative of those who have so far provided feedback. Please continue to do so."


it can be reviews on twitter or reddit, or through a special feedback form. But they did not say anything about the Larian Studio forum


What?
Originally Posted by drimaxus

What are your thoughts on the matter? Maybe I am wrong about it, but I think that if they really cared about that they would be focused on that already since some of the changes we are suggesting are going to take a long time and need a complete rework of some areas or mechanics of the game (like camping mechanics or dialogues and party size).


Party size is not going to change. If by camping mechanics, you mean limiting when you can camp, then that isn't a lot of work.
Originally Posted by drimaxus
party movement, dialogues, travelling and camping mechanics, and custom characters being soulless mute mannequins is what troubles me the most, it doesn't seem like they are going to change their mind on the way they chose to do those things...


Larian Studios answering to posts on these forums and other media (reddit and so on) would take far more time than just gather feedback silently. Also making us promises about implementing something and arguing about why they choose to do things one way or the other would be counterproductive, also a waste of time and resources. What they still could do is add a stickied post on top of forum, that nobody would read, repeating same things they already said in patch notes and other posts: that they are reading our feedback.

Don't try to change the game through some kind of mob pressure, that isn't feedback. If I work on a sculpture or painting, and somebody tells me they like this part and less so another, I may do some changes or not. Our posts can be a valuable resource, but also a waste of time reading them.

Just give suggestions and feedback without expecting anything.
In fact, it is likely they are scanning our feedback with a sophisticated social media algorithm, so really all you need to do is type the key words rather than full sentences:

dice roll, hit probability, party formation, origin, 5E rules, evil path, level cap, full release date

That's about it.
Well, the only thing that can be said is that there is no confirmation that they are accepting the feeback. There is no indication of the contrary, however, they might be implementing things players want, and it just takes some time.

My biggest fear is that Larian created BG3 with a DOS-hybrid mindset, that is, they always wanted it to deviate from 5ed and to be more like DOS, and this is not going to change. If this is the case, I imagine some harsh criticism when the game comes out.
Originally Posted by Danielbda
Well, the only thing that can be said is that there is no confirmation that they are accepting the feeback. There is no indication of the contrary, however, they might be implementing things players want, and it just takes some time.

My biggest fear is that Larian created BG3 with a DOS-hybrid mindset, that is, they always wanted it to deviate from 5ed and to be more like DOS, and this is not going to change. If this is the case, I imagine some harsh criticism when the game comes out.


Have you played DOS 1 EA? Cause if you have, you must know they are capable of radically change some mechanics in their games.
Originally Posted by Nyanko
Originally Posted by Danielbda
Well, the only thing that can be said is that there is no confirmation that they are accepting the feeback. There is no indication of the contrary, however, they might be implementing things players want, and it just takes some time.

My biggest fear is that Larian created BG3 with a DOS-hybrid mindset, that is, they always wanted it to deviate from 5ed and to be more like DOS, and this is not going to change. If this is the case, I imagine some harsh criticism when the game comes out.


Have you played DOS 1 EA? Cause if you have, you must know they are capable of radically change some mechanics in their games.

Didn't know there was an EA. If that is the case, how are some of the game mechanics so bad?
Talking specifically about loot and merchant inventories. Randomized loot in a game where enemies don't respawn, also enemies almost never drop loot, not even the weapons and armor that they are using.
Randomized merchant inventories that update ONCE PER LEVEL. That is, if you level up and there is nothing good there, you're fucked.

No one complained about that during EA?
Originally Posted by Danielbda
Originally Posted by Nyanko
Originally Posted by Danielbda
Well, the only thing that can be said is that there is no confirmation that they are accepting the feeback. There is no indication of the contrary, however, they might be implementing things players want, and it just takes some time.

My biggest fear is that Larian created BG3 with a DOS-hybrid mindset, that is, they always wanted it to deviate from 5ed and to be more like DOS, and this is not going to change. If this is the case, I imagine some harsh criticism when the game comes out.


Have you played DOS 1 EA? Cause if you have, you must know they are capable of radically change some mechanics in their games.

Didn't know there was an EA. If that is the case, how are some of the game mechanics so bad?
Talking specifically about loot and merchant inventories. Randomized loot in a game where enemies don't respawn, also enemies almost never drop loot, not even the weapons and armor that they are using.
Randomized merchant inventories that update ONCE PER LEVEL. That is, if you level up and there is nothing good there, you're fucked.

No one complained about that during EA?


Actually someone posted things that was requested in dos1 from a backer and he reposted it some where else to save it, since he you know didn't get his way. You can dig through the forums, maybe you'll see your answers their.

Truthfully with my multi-plays I had with that game I cant say I ever noticed either of those problems or cared really. Why is this such a big deal...nevermind it really isn't. Youtube dos1 ea if you want to see the game before it went live.

morning
Originally Posted by Maerd
Larian never promised to implement gameplay ideas of random people from the forum and they should never do that. They wanted feedback, which helps them know what features people like and what dislike but Larian will be working according to their own vision, not a vision of some angry forum poster. Obviously some feedback on feedback would have been great but I understand why they want to keep silence. People just get angry if they are bluntly told that their ideas are horrible and won't be implemented.



I get angry when they specifically ask us to give feedback on the evil path and then it turns out it's barely implemented and on top of that we get a mailed update saying "74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems. " See the multiple evil path threads why.
Originally Posted by Moirnelithe
Originally Posted by Maerd
Larian never promised to implement gameplay ideas of random people from the forum and they should never do that. They wanted feedback, which helps them know what features people like and what dislike but Larian will be working according to their own vision, not a vision of some angry forum poster. Obviously some feedback on feedback would have been great but I understand why they want to keep silence. People just get angry if they are bluntly told that their ideas are horrible and won't be implemented.


I get angry when they specifically ask us to give feedback on the evil path and then it turns out it's barely implemented and on top of that we get a mailed update saying "74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems. " See the multiple evil path threads why.


Haven't actually played EA, but I was really surprised people are disappointed about the evil path. Especially after Larian hyped it so much... or rather, hyped up that there are multiple viable, reactive evil paths. That the game allows you to play different shades of evil characters and it's all on-par with good playthroughs. To the point people were worried good playthroughs will be the ginger stepchild.
Originally Posted by Uncle Lester
Originally Posted by Moirnelithe
I get angry when they specifically ask us to give feedback on the evil path and then it turns out it's barely implemented and on top of that we get a mailed update saying "74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems. " See the multiple evil path threads why.


Haven't actually played EA, but I was really surprised people are disappointed about the evil path. Especially after Larian hyped it so much... or rather, hyped up that there are multiple viable, reactive evil paths. That the game allows you to play different shades of evil characters and it's all on-par with good playthroughs. To the point people were worried good playthroughs will be the ginger stepchild.

+1 to @Moirnelithe

@Uncle Lester. There is a single evil path currently, and it is Chaotic Evil (or Stupid Evil or psychopath evil).
The only motivations to take this evil path are:
--want to murder innocent tieflings, druids, children
--want to have sex with Minthara (which you can't know will happen unless you've been spoiled, as there's little in-game forewarning of this possibility)
--active desire to take the path with the least chances of helping you with your tadpole problem

The good path has overwhelmingly better story and incentives, and I'm confident the only reason the evil path was chosen as often (25%) was because Larian specifically told us to test it.
Originally Posted by Moirnelithe
Originally Posted by Maerd
Larian never promised to implement gameplay ideas of random people from the forum and they should never do that. They wanted feedback, which helps them know what features people like and what dislike but Larian will be working according to their own vision, not a vision of some angry forum poster. Obviously some feedback on feedback would have been great but I understand why they want to keep silence. People just get angry if they are bluntly told that their ideas are horrible and won't be implemented.


I get angry when they specifically ask us to give feedback on the evil path and then it turns out it's barely implemented and on top of that we get a mailed update saying "74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems. " See the multiple evil path threads why.


I agree with you, of course. However, in the recent interview Swen said that their writers tend to be good aligned and always forget to include proper evil options. I understood it as follows. The writers told Swen that they made a wide variety of evil options and they are proud of it. Swen went on on the dev stream to encourage players to try the evil path his writers so proud of because he knows what their tendencies are. Consequently, if they read the feedback Larian should note that and fix it. It doesn't mean, however, that they need to follow suggestions by some random guy from the forum who is angry because his own "very important" suggestion wasn't implemented in the game. Regarding the "good outweighs evil" line I just hope that this is the personal take of the writer of that post and not an official Larian position. Time will tell.
Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by Uncle Lester
Originally Posted by Moirnelithe
I get angry when they specifically ask us to give feedback on the evil path and then it turns out it's barely implemented and on top of that we get a mailed update saying "74.85% of you stood with the Tieflings, and 25.15% of you sided with Minthara. Good outweighs evil, it seems. " See the multiple evil path threads why.


Haven't actually played EA, but I was really surprised people are disappointed about the evil path. Especially after Larian hyped it so much... or rather, hyped up that there are multiple viable, reactive evil paths. That the game allows you to play different shades of evil characters and it's all on-par with good playthroughs. To the point people were worried good playthroughs will be the ginger stepchild.

+1 to @Moirnelithe

@Uncle Lester. There is a single evil path currently, and it is Chaotic Evil (or Stupid Evil or psychopath evil).
The only motivations to take this evil path are:
--want to murder innocent tieflings, druids, children
--want to have sex with Minthara (which you can't know will happen unless you've been spoiled, as there's little in-game forewarning of this possibility)
--active desire to take the path with the least chances of helping you with your tadpole problem

The good path has overwhelmingly better story and incentives, and I'm confident the only reason the evil path was chosen as often (25%) was because Larian specifically told us to test it.


Eh, quite disappointing indeed. I guess those are two "fine" reasons: for the evulz (psychopath evil) or because the Absolute clearly must know more about how to harness tadpole powers (power-seeking evil)? (Idk, guessing here, please don't spoil.)

But yeah, besides that... most evil characters are going to go with the "good path". And that's another thing I thought Larian is going to avoid: "good path, evil path". Simplified railroaded duality (or at least it seems so to me). Judging by what they've told us before EA, I was sure it's going to be "multiple ways to solve problems", with morality being secondary to "what someone could realistically decide to do". (Which would organically result in multiple moralities reflected in different possible choices.)
Originally Posted by Maerd
It doesn't mean, however, that they need to follow suggestions by some random guy from the forum who is angry because his own "very important" suggestion wasn't implemented in the game.

yeah for normie randos, but I used bold and words in all caps to go along with my angry gamer attitude, surely that at least means that larian has got a small dedicated team working on implementing my suggestions
@uncle Lester you can check out one of the many "evil route sucks" threads on the forum if you want a detailed analysis. In short, the writing in the evil route simply isn't as good as the good route.
They generally did not give the opportunity to play the evil hero, they need a special evil writer if Larian has any problems in order to realize this to its full potential.

What are the shades of evil? Kagha and Shadow Druids? Dead end, they attack even if we helped them. Minthara? She is beautiful, but she did not even go with us to the party as a companion and she is a puppet of the Absolute and does not act of her own free will. Helping her as a "leap of faith" in the first playthrough, there was no hint of a sequel. If my intuition had been less strong, perhaps I would not have helped her because it was not very obvious that this could be done at all.
In addition, at the end it is again not clear what will happen next, when we see her and get into the party with the continuation of the romance. If this does not happen, then it will greatly disappoint me.

Goblins? They are stupid, and helping them looks like the most illogical action, no answers or hints that it might make sense. Helping the fake Paladins of Tyr? Idiocy, you can't tell them that we know their secret and want to enlist in the service of the demons. Show us at least one normal evil variation in EA that would seduce us, motivate us, and look like an interesting solution.

Hey guys it's only been a month since Early Access came out. We can't expect the full release for a year or so; let us keep hope that they are keeping tabs despite the radio silence and are working on things smile
Originally Posted by Abits
@uncle Lester you can check out one of the many "evil route sucks" threads on the forum if you want a detailed analysis. In short, the writing in the evil route simply isn't as good as the good route.


I'm willing to believe people there's a problem with the evil route. I specifically didn't read the thread, as I'm trying to avoid spoilers. wink
Originally Posted by Danielbda
Well, the only thing that can be said is that there is no confirmation that they are accepting the feeback.

Except for one of several times like "We see the people that have really bad luck, and they are really, really angry over it. So, we're going to help them. We're going to add modes to the game that are going to go with things like a loaded die, and that's going to be a bit more manageable. We'll still keep the option of having full RNG in there."
Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
Originally Posted by Maerd
It doesn't mean, however, that they need to follow suggestions by some random guy from the forum who is angry because his own "very important" suggestion wasn't implemented in the game.

yeah for normie randos, but I used bold and words in all caps to go along with my angry gamer attitude, surely that at least means that larian has got a small dedicated team working on implementing my suggestions

As if I wasn't mad enough at you already, if you make me spew my coffee all over my keyboard I will really be pissed! (And tell you so in bold and all caps).
Originally Posted by Uncle Lester
I'm willing to believe people there's a problem with the evil route. I specifically didn't read the thread, as I'm trying to avoid spoilers. wink

Any luck with that ?

I avoid threads that seem dedicated to talking about plot points or quests, but there's a significant amount of spoil going on in other threads. I played until the celebration only, trying to do as little as possible aside of it. Which is already a big chunk, it seems. For the rest, either I hear about some aspects of quests I found and ignored, but had an idea of how they would turn out, or I hear about possible encounters against monsters I haven't met. So, I hear a bit more than I'd wish.
[b][/b]
Originally Posted by RumRunner151

Originally Posted by drimaxus
I haven't seen official community managers commenting on these forums either, or even acknowledging that they are reading our ideas.


So since Vometia thinks my response was inflammatory, I will provide facts that directly dispute the OPs claims and hope that is not inflammatory.

Larian responding to a feedback thread: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=94360&Number=731263#Post731263
Larian commenting that they are working on fixing a problem: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=87598&Number=731133#Post731133
Larian thanking us for the feedback we have been providing and giving us a hotfix: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=93920&Number=723217#Post723217
Larian thanking us for our feedback and asking us to continue. https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=87468&Number=677655#Post677655
And that's just here in these forums.

What about a quote from the man himself a week ago where he says they are listening to people's complaints and considering ways to address them: “We see the people that have really bad luck, and they are really, really angry over it. So, we're going to help them. We're going to add modes to the game that are going to go with things like a loaded die, and that's going to be a bit more manageable. We'll still keep the option of having full RNG in there. We'll experiment with that throughout early access, and see what we should make the default option. That's one of the things that will be driven by the analytics.” https://www.ign.com/articles/baldurs-gate-3-early-access-changes-player-data-feedback-larian

Sorry if my earlier post was inflammatory, but I feel this thread is inflammatory since it is contradicted by factual evidence that is not hard to find if you look for it.



I would like to kindly remind you that you are forgetting what my original post was about, I said all they care is about stability and bug reports, and the links you provided (except one) are about BUG FIXING
And all those comments are from the same account Jess Larian that has only 67 posts since 2018, what an active community manager!

Just to sum up this thread....
"They aren't listening...."
**Evidence they are here listening posted with links**
"Thats not good enough"

May I ask, exactly what are people expecting in terms of feed back? Genuine question.
Originally Posted by drimaxus
I would like to kindly remind you that you are forgetting what my original post was about, I said all they care is about stability and bug reports, and the links you provided (except one) are about BUG FIXING
And all those comments are from the same account Jess Larian that has only 67 posts since 2018, what an active community manager!


Has it occurred to you that post count means nothing? Especially when they are working hard on the game itself? Also, Jess_Larian isn't a community manager, he's working for Larian itself and clearly he cares enough about his job to sometimes check forums and answer here and there if he can spare the time?

Also, has it occurred to you that maybe there are people who work at Larian and check the forums from their private accounts nobody knows anything about? You know, incognito style? To not draw too much attention to themselves?

Can you please stop acting like a child whose toy was broken and parents are taking too long to repair/replace it? Take a damn chill pill.
Originally Posted by Drath Malorn
Originally Posted by Uncle Lester
I'm willing to believe people there's a problem with the evil route. I specifically didn't read the thread, as I'm trying to avoid spoilers. wink

Any luck with that ?

I avoid threads that seem dedicated to talking about plot points or quests, but there's a significant amount of spoil going on in other threads. I played until the celebration only, trying to do as little as possible aside of it. Which is already a big chunk, it seems. For the rest, either I hear about some aspects of quests I found and ignored, but had an idea of how they would turn out, or I hear about possible encounters against monsters I haven't met. So, I hear a bit more than I'd wish.


*sigh* No... not much luck. People just don't give a shit and spoil left and right even if specific forums have clearly written spoiler policies... I wish there was heavier moderation spoiler-wise.
Most games have a problem with an evil route. There is generally the assumption that evil means going around slaughtering everyone for no particular reason for one thing, and that is very difficult to write well (because it is stupid). In playing an evil character, I want a reason and payoff better than getting to loot a bunch of bodies.

Why would I side with Minthara who seems to be nothing but a psychopath or the puppet of a psychopathic being? Why would I side with Kagha who is again a puppet? Neither makes sense to me.

Edited to add: I agree that they possibly need to find a writer who is comfortable writing an evil path, preferably one that makes some logical sense. Is Larian paying attention? I suspect they are. That is kind of the point of Early Release after all. That doesn't mean they will accept all orl even most suggestions/criticisms or make instantaneous changes.
Originally Posted by Dinvan
Just to sum up this thread....
"They aren't listening...."
**Evidence they are here listening posted with links**
"Thats not good enough"

May I ask, exactly what are people expecting in terms of feed back? Genuine question.


See the post directly above yours. A total of 4 posts by Jess Larian, 3 of which are in response to bugs and the other is a generic "thank you for this feedback", does not "response to feedback" make.

I would like an official Community Update by Larian where they specifically mention a few of the big forum discussion topics, noting that these issues seem important to the players and at least saying that Larian is "looking into them to see if changes should be made."
Even better would be Larian indicating their likelihood of changing any of these topics and/or their reasons for doing or not doing so.
Originally Posted by Nicottia
Originally Posted by drimaxus
I would like to kindly remind you that you are forgetting what my original post was about, I said all they care is about stability and bug reports, and the links you provided (except one) are about BUG FIXING
And all those comments are from the same account Jess Larian that has only 67 posts since 2018, what an active community manager!

Has it occurred to you that post count means nothing? Especially when they are working hard on the game itself? Also, Jess_Larian isn't a community manager, he's working for Larian itself and clearly he cares enough about his job to sometimes check forums and answer here and there if he can spare the time?

Also, has it occurred to you that maybe there are people who work at Larian and check the forums from their private accounts nobody knows anything about? You know, incognito style? To not draw too much attention to themselves?

Can you please stop acting like a child whose toy was broken and parents are taking too long to repair/replace it? Take a damn chill pill.

How on earth does post count mean nothing? We are specifically talking about how responsive/acknowledging Larian has been to our feedback. Post count and post content mean everything.

There very well might be people at Larian using private accounts. But, by definition, we don't know about these accounts. Thus we're still in the situation of being in the dark, where to us, Larian has not acknowledged most of our feedback and we are unsure of the extent to which they will actually listen to it.
Originally Posted by mrfuji3
I would like an official Community Update by Larian where they specifically mention a few of the big forum discussion topics, noting that these issues seem important to the players and at least saying that Larian is "looking into them to see if changes should be made."

[deleted inflammatory comment]

Did you see the interview I posted where they noted several issues that seem important and say they are looking into them and that they will be testing changes?


People keep saying "why would anyone choose the evil path?"

One of the main reasons to be evil, in fiction or in real life, is the pursuit of power.

The druids aren't gonna give you any power. The tieflings aren't gonna give you any power. But the Absolute, if it is indeed some new god on the rise, might give you lots of power. Getting in on the ground floor with the Absolute cult could lead to big rewards down the line.
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
People keep saying "why would anyone choose the evil path?"

One of the main reasons to be evil, in fiction or in real life, is the pursuit of power.

The druids aren't gonna give you any power. The tieflings aren't gonna give you any power. But the Absolute, if it is indeed some new god on the rise, might give you lots of power. Getting in on the ground floor with the Absolute cult could lead to big rewards down the line.



"Might" is the key word here. Except it doesn't. Nor is there any reason to assume it ever will. And some chars you meet make it clear that the Absolute wants you dead. That's before you even get to the goblins. There might also drop a pink rabbit from the sky turning you into a god at some point. Or not.
Btw this stuff is all spoiler territory.
Originally Posted by RumRunner151
Originally Posted by mrfuji3
I would like an official Community Update by Larian where they specifically mention a few of the big forum discussion topics, noting that these issues seem important to the players and at least saying that Larian is "looking into them to see if changes should be made."

[deleted inflammatory comment]

Did you see the interview I posted where they noted several issues that seem important and say they are looking into them and that they will be testing changes?


https://www.ign.com/articles/baldurs-gate-3-early-access-changes-player-data-feedback-larian This interview?

I've gone through this article and pulled all relevant quotes
-"players are horny, so we've put a lot of effort into making sure the parts are there" (data metrics, not feedback)
-"Vincke notes that ...encounter to save some children has experienced heavy save scumming" (data metrics, not feedback)
-"We see the people that have really bad luck, and they are really, really angry over it. So we're going to...loaded die" (Feedback, but biased because Larian was already of this opinion. Also most people arguing against the RNG are claiming that it is unfair and have been proven wrong. But sure I'll give Larian half a point for this.)
-"Giving players things to do at the beginning...add a few things...to the fighter" is something Larian wants (Swen's personal opinion. Not based on any significant amount of forum posts)
-"There's been a group of people complaining about the fact that companions are snarky...we haven't put any of the 'good' characters in yet, so I think that will balance that" (Completely ignores feedback by saying that it's only because these companions are evil, not because they're unlikeable. I wouldn't categorize this as really 'listening' to our complaints.)
-Specific mention of evil options put in by the writers, but no mention of the players' response to this "evil" path (almost universally disliked/thought to be lacking depth/incentives)
-Specific mention of "surprised at how many betrayed the tieflings" even though Swen explicitly told us to test this path
-"The game will be moddable eventually" (implying that they won't listen to our feedback)
-"All of the things that people are suggesting were already on the list of things that we had to do...so they fit our roadmap. But there are things we hadn't thought of" (This is the closest we get to actual listening and responding to feedback, but note that nothing specific is mentioned)

This article? I count 3 explicit mentions of problems, 2 of which (snarky companions and evil path) are dismissed without really listening to the actual complaints. The other problem is about players not understanding RNG and is something Larian was already focusing on. Prior to this article, Larian said multiple times their opinion that "missing isn't fun." and had been considering loaded dice.

Edit: The takeaway I got from this article is that Larian has not as of yet considered doing any specific thing they weren't already planning on doing.
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
People keep saying "why would anyone choose the evil path?"

One of the main reasons to be evil, in fiction or in real life, is the pursuit of power.

The druids aren't gonna give you any power. The tieflings aren't gonna give you any power. But the Absolute, if it is indeed some new god on the rise, might give you lots of power. Getting in on the ground floor with the Absolute cult could lead to big rewards down the line.


The problem with the absolute path is they ditch it when you get attacked by goblins after you help Minthara kill everyone in the grove. Besides, she also tries to kill you and the fact she doesn't is locked behind a high score dice roll, which clearly indicates it's a very marginal option in their minds.

I am concerned by this to be honest. Maybe the writers on the game are too teddybear friendly to properly give the evil path the chance it deserves. They should have hired people working on mature content like warhammer 40k or the such, who are not afraid to explore very grey areas.

Evil should be seductive, corruptive and offer great power indeed. It's not like it hasn't been explored in detail by big licenses like Star Wars, The lord of the rings, and so forth. It should not require much thinking to put together an interesting plot evolving around playing a vile character.
I don't find fun playing as evil, not even for testing, but how about accepting the help of

Raphael, the demon lord (or something), that should be the best evil path, the other keeping the tadpole powers and joining the Absolute willingly, if the tadpole can be kept long term without problems, though these can't be tested much since EA ends


so far these are the real big evil paths that I think of, the rest of decisions either doesn't work for long or just gray areas.
Originally Posted by LoneSky
I don't find fun playing as evil, not even for testing, but how about accepting the help of

Raphael, the demon lord (or something), that should be the best evil path, the other keeping the tadpole powers and joining the Absolute willingly, if the tadpole can be kept long term without problems, though these can't be tested much since EA ends


so far these are the real big evil paths that I think of, the rest of decisions either doesn't work for long or just gray areas.


I wouldn't necessarily even count R. as a guaranteed evil path. It depends on what he wants and how you act after a deal is made.
If he wants you to murder some people and you do that? Yeah, evil.
But if he wants
your soul, which would be used as currency in Hell, giving him a bit more influence/power in the Blood War?
Eh, not that evil. Especially if you plan on turning around and murdering him after you get what you want. It's not evil to kill a
demon lord, even if you already made a deal with him.

Just an example of how every scenario/offer could have a mix of alignment options depending on your actions prior to and after accepting a deal.

Similar to the big baddie. Join the big bad, gaining power, to ultimately kill the big bad? Chaotic or Neutral Good.
Join the big bad because you want power for yourself? Evil.
Originally Posted by LoneSky


Don't try to change the game through some kind of mob pressure, that isn't feedback. If I work on a sculpture or painting, and somebody tells me they like this part and less so another, I may do some changes or not. Our posts can be a valuable resource, but also a waste of time reading them.

Just give suggestions and feedback without expecting anything.


You are confusing art with business, if you were a commissioned painter and the client gave you the money in advance you better be listening to their opinion right? Cause otherwise next time they won't hire you or buy any of your paintings.

Also I gave examples of other studios that are active commenting in forums and give official surveys to see what we want and what we like (Avalanche studios is a great example). So I don't think it is an excuse to say it would be easier to gather feedback silently, anyone can say "we are reading your feedback" and not be reading it at all. DOS2 didn't listen to the feedback at all...
Originally Posted by Maerd
Larian never promised to implement gameplay ideas of random people from the forum and they should never do that. They wanted feedback, which helps them know what features people like and what dislike but Larian will be working according to their own vision, not a vision of some angry forum poster. Obviously some feedback on feedback would have been great but I understand why they want to keep silence. People just get angry if they are bluntly told that their ideas are horrible and won't be implemented.


On the contrary, it would be great if at least they said which ideas are bad or won't be implemented, that is at least something. My ideas aren't radical, there are so many other people posting about the same things... but it is clear that there are different types of gamers, some aren't so picky and would play anything really (that is why there are so many battle royales out there), others have an artistic background or are modders or game designers and understand that things could have been done differently.

Again, EA is supposed to be for gameplay feedback not for bug reporting, other companies do care about the community's gameplay ideas, have you heard of a game called No Man's Sky?
Trying to cater to every vocal minority is a fool's errand.
Originally Posted by Uncle Lester


One thing I'm worried about is how far they're willing to go with changes to the game. Swen gave the example of D:OS2 changing during EA, but from what I see it wasn't that much. BG3 needs much greater changes and a lot of work.


I have the same concern, they seem to have a vision of what they want that is cast in stone and I doubt they will go an extra mile to change that, even when there are so many BG3 EA reviews out there pointing out the game is lacking in so many aspects....

They have the chance to make a game changing RPG but if the game vision doesn't change then they are probably going to botch it.
Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
Originally Posted by Maerd
It doesn't mean, however, that they need to follow suggestions by some random guy from the forum who is angry because his own "very important" suggestion wasn't implemented in the game.

yeah for normie randos, but I used bold and words in all caps to go along with my angry gamer attitude, surely that at least means that larian has got a small dedicated team working on implementing my suggestions



Why would someone be angry for their suggestions not implemented in the game if we are only one month in? That doesn't make any sense, but I have been part of other feedback exchanges with other studios and found that they were much more responsive and actively showing they cared for our input, making surveys and implementing our ideas in the game.

Alice, I would also like to introduce you to punctuation and capital letters in addition to bold, cursive and ALL CAPS. It is called Hierarchy and Structure, for better understanding of the text. You should try to implement it sometimes, not everything is snapchat in this life!
Originally Posted by drimaxus

Alice, I would also like to introduce you to punctuation and capital letters in addition to bold, cursive and ALL CAPS. It is called Hierarchy and Structure, for better understanding of the text. You should try to implement it sometimes, not everything is snapchat in this life!



Oh you bout to get wrecked.
Let's not turn this into an English lesson.

Most of of us know the correct way to write and construct a sentence, but a forum is definitely in the category of casual writing, and thus more informal styles are often used and deemed acceptable.
Originally Posted by Sadurian
Let's not turn this into an English lesson.

Most of of us know the correct way to write and construct a sentence, but a forum is definitely in the category of casual writing, and thus more informal styles are often used and deemed acceptable.



k00l
Originally Posted by Sadurian
Let's not turn this into an English lesson.

Most of of us know the correct way to write and construct a sentence, but a forum is definitely in the category of casual writing, and thus more informal styles are often used and deemed acceptable.



Yeah I know, chill, it is just a reply to the statement that using bold font is an "angry gamer attitude" instead of just bringing emphasis to a certain phrase. I also imagine many people commenting here aren't native English speakers, I am not, so no one is here to pick on anyone else's writing.
I am sure they listen, analyse feedback and data.

However, players are not designers. If a subset of players doesn’t like or agree with Larian’s approach/ideals it’s irrelevant. They can’t and shouldn’t change the game based on the whims of the audience. On part, because audience most likely doesn’t know what they want, and because the audience will have different and conflicting ideas. In addition he audience has a very fragmented view of the game - just the unfinished content in the beta, and they most likely don’t know how to properly analyse said content in the context of game being developed (I remember Josh Sawyer saying how giving final sound effect to a gun, stopped people from complaining that it’s underpowered etc.).

Customers are also not a board of directors nor owners. Larian doesn’t work for us. What BG3 is, is decided by WotC and Larian. EA players are just willing, paying guinea pigs. And they pay close attention to what those guinea pigs do, say and how they react. But they won’t put them in charge of anything. Oink, oink.
Originally Posted by drimaxus

Alice, I would also like to introduce you to punctuation and capital letters in addition to bold, cursive and ALL CAPS. It is called Hierarchy and Structure, for better understanding of the text. You should try to implement it sometimes, not everything is snapchat in this life!

rules are for breaking
Originally Posted by Wormerine
I am sure they listen, analyse feedback and data.

However, players are not designers. If a subset of players doesn’t like or agree with Larian’s approach/ideals it’s irrelevant. They can’t and shouldn’t change the game based on the whims of the audience. On part, because audience most likely doesn’t know what they want, and because the audience will have different and conflicting ideas. In addition he audience has a very fragmented view of the game - just the unfinished content in the beta, and they most likely don’t know how to properly analyse said content in the context of game being developed (I remember Josh Sawyer saying how giving final sound effect to a gun, stopped people from complaining that it’s underpowered etc.).

Customers are also not a board of directors nor owners. Larian doesn’t work for us. What BG3 is, is decided by WotC and Larian. EA players are just willing, paying guinea pigs. And they pay close attention to what those guinea pigs do, say and how they react. But they won’t put them in charge of anything. Oink, oink.


Very on point. Perhaps not very tactful, but on point. wink At the end of the day, I think they listen, and I'm sure that some of their designers have already said some of the suggestions, but it comes down what they and ultimately WOTC want to tell and do. However, as pointed out before in other posts, the game will probably be moddable. And if that isn't good enough one can always learn how to become a game designer and pioneer said game suggestions in their own game. Anything is possible, but it takes time, work, and financial backing.

I don't mind being a beta tester/EA player that doesn't really get much say. I say my mind in what I think is plausible and would like to see, but I have no illusions that my opinion will be sought after or even implemented. I will still share my thoughts because that is what they asked. If they happen to see it and think its a great idea, I will be humbly honored that they took my input to heart. I think it is unfair to say though that they don't care about peoples ideas. That is a bit on the harsh side. I think they are indifferent at the worst, but still want our input all the same. It is how they gauge if something is popular or not so popular or needs adjustment. Input is always necessary to create anything. Anyways, enough of me rambling. Not singling you out or anything because I disagree, just felt chatty and sharing my opinion. silly smile
Originally Posted by Wormerine


However, players are not designers. If a subset of players doesn’t like or agree with Larian’s approach/ideals it’s irrelevant. They can’t and shouldn’t change the game based on the whims of the audience. On part, because audience most likely doesn’t know what they want, and because the audience will have different and conflicting ideas. In addition he audience has a very fragmented view of the game - just the unfinished content in the beta, and they most likely don’t know how to properly analyse said content in the context of game being developed (I remember Josh Sawyer saying how giving final sound effect to a gun, stopped people from complaining that it’s underpowered etc.).

Customers are also not a board of directors nor owners. Larian doesn’t work for us. What BG3 is, is decided by WotC and Larian. EA players are just willing, paying guinea pigs. And they pay close attention to what those guinea pigs do, say and how they react. But they won’t put them in charge of anything. Oink, oink.



I would like to politely disagree with the part where the audience doesn't know what they want, I studied Game Design in uni and one of the first principles is to never be narrow minded or too jealous with your idea, because everyone plays the game differently and expects different things from the game. Some enjoy social aspects, others seek for escapism, others need expression, others competitivity. If you aren't flexible with your original idea then your game may end up satisfying only the gamers that think exactly like you, and disappointing the rest.

Plus usually things you thought would work well in the phase of game design may end up not working after being developed, sometimes things seemed fun the first hours you tested and then it just doesn't hold up well for a 70 hour campaign...

See No Man's Sky case for example. The game they had envisioned was a completely different game from what it actually is now, Sean Murray even said so during an interview. They had a more "single player oriented" game in mind where meeting with another human was a complete rarity, it was more focused on exploration etc. During these years and the many updates the game become something completely different from the original idea and it was all fueled by the community's request and ideas.
Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
Originally Posted by drimaxus

Alice, I would also like to introduce you to punctuation and capital letters in addition to bold, cursive and ALL CAPS. It is called Hierarchy and Structure, for better understanding of the text. You should try to implement it sometimes, not everything is snapchat in this life!

rules are for breaking

I guess what I should say is this, “drimaxus,” since I think you deserve a fuller answer: the subtle and not so subtle manipulation of language conventions for comedic effect and the use of irony to lampoon risible targets is a tradition that goes back thousands of years. In fact it should be self evident that I am simply continuing the tradition of Martial, Horace, Plautus even, choosing to ply my humble art among the gamer masses, while you are gesticulating impotently in the direction of Grammarly, thus vindicating my original choice to deliberately and methodically eschew the rules and conventions of, how do you say, “Hierarchy and Structure.”
Originally Posted by Ghost King


I don't mind being a beta tester/EA player that doesn't really get much say. I say my mind in what I think is plausible and would like to see, but I have no illusions that my opinion will be sought after or even implemented. I will still share my thoughts because that is what they asked. If they happen to see it and think its a great idea, I will be humbly honored that they took my input to heart.


That is great, that you don't really mind having no say and enjoy it anyways. And it is true one feels humbly honoured when they take your thoughts into consideration or when you vote an idea that ends up being implemented, it happened for me with the game Generation Zero, I opened a thread for having a baseball bat to smash ticks and a lot of people got on board and the idea ended up being implemented (there will be people who won't like the idea but it was just optional). And it feels really good.

This whole month I found out my view is very much on the same page with most of the BG3 EA reviews and with many users that posted similar thoughts, this game needs a big rework. I am not claiming to have anything original to say, but I think all these voices should be heard, like other studios and games did in the past. Larian has a game here that receives a lot of attention from all the media and RPG community, if they do it wrong, it will be a big loss for them because they are in the spotlight now. As a business, it is always in the best interest to see what your consumers want and think about your product, and if possible, to fix it before it is too late.
Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
Originally Posted by drimaxus

Alice, I would also like to introduce you to punctuation and capital letters in addition to bold, cursive and ALL CAPS. It is called Hierarchy and Structure, for better understanding of the text. You should try to implement it sometimes, not everything is snapchat in this life!

rules are for breaking

I guess what I should say is this, “drimaxus,” since I think you deserve a fuller answer: the subtle and not so subtle manipulation of language conventions for comedic effect and the use of irony to lampoon risible targets is a tradition that goes back thousands of years. In fact it should be self evident that I am simply continuing the tradition of Martial, Horace, Plautus even, choosing to ply my humble art among the gamer masses, while you are gesticulating impotently in the direction of Grammarly, thus vindicating my original choice to deliberately and methodically eschew the rules and conventions of, how do you say, “Hierarchy and Structure.”



Your previous comment was 31 minutes ago. It must have taken you a long time to prepare this pompous comment, obviously you don't improvise and had to sit and think something to say. Don't be such a tryhard
Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
Originally Posted by drimaxus

Alice, I would also like to introduce you to punctuation and capital letters in addition to bold, cursive and ALL CAPS. It is called Hierarchy and Structure, for better understanding of the text. You should try to implement it sometimes, not everything is snapchat in this life!

rules are for breaking

I guess what I should say is this, “drimaxus,” since I think you deserve a fuller answer: the subtle and not so subtle manipulation of language conventions for comedic effect and the use of irony to lampoon risible targets is a tradition that goes back thousands of years. In fact it should be self evident that I am simply continuing the tradition of Martial, Horace, Plautus even, choosing to ply my humble art among the gamer masses, while you are gesticulating impotently in the direction of Grammarly, thus vindicating my original choice to deliberately and methodically eschew the rules and conventions of, how do you say, “Hierarchy and Structure.”


And if you want a writing tip, be careful with with the overuse of adverbs that finish with the -ly suffix, it makes the text sound reiterative and histrionic to use words like "impotently", "grammarly", "deliberately" and "methodically" in the same sentence.
you're right of course, taking your time in writing and thinking things through before you speak, not to mention the application of effort are true demonstrations of character failure. so with that wisdom in mind i have decided that i will cease to try to apply punctuation in my posts. thanks smile
Originally Posted by drimaxus

And if you want a writing tip, be careful with with the overuse of adverbs that finish with the -ly suffix, it makes the text sound reiterative and histrionic to use words like "impotently", "grammarly", "deliberately" and "methodically" in the same sentence.

also keep these coming, im writing all this down for later.
Originally Posted by drimaxus
Your previous comment was 31 minutes ago. It must have taken you a long time to prepare this pompous comment, obviously you don't improvise and had to sit and think something to say. Don't be such a tryhard

Cool it off a bit, eh? As this is just hours after the last warning to not turn it into an English lesson this is the last time.
Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by drimaxus
Your previous comment was 31 minutes ago. It must have taken you a long time to prepare this pompous comment, obviously you don't improvise and had to sit and think something to say. Don't be such a tryhard

Cool it off a bit, eh? As this is just hours after the last warning to not turn it into an English lesson this is the last time.



Chill, we are just having fun, I am not even a native English speaker. And it was all in answer to an aggressive user that said that using bold and ALLCAPS is an "angry gamer attitude", why are you attacking me for then?
I refer my fellow forum users to the following documentary of the true use of the English language.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOSYiT2iG08

Being born English I feel say to say I have never met anyone who speaks the bloody language. That Queen bird for example talks a right load of bollocks, we normies need to google translate the geezer every time.
Originally Posted by drimaxus
Chill, we are just having fun, I am not even a native English speaker. And it was all in answer to an aggressive user that said that using bold and ALLCAPS is an "angry gamer attitude", why are you attacking me for then?

Two points to make here. Normally we don't give such missives, but it should be useful for others in future posts to understand how we think:

1. Please don't tell Admins and Mods to 'chill' or to do anything else. We take it quite badly and will bear terrible grudges until the end of time. If you want to explain your previous behaviour or tone then by all means do so.

2. Nobody is attacking you. If you happen to be quoted in a thread warning it is likely that you are simply the last poster in the exchange and are being quoted to add context to the warning. If you are addressed directly (i.e. your user name is used in the warning) then you can assume that it is directly targeted at you. In either case, ignoring the friendly (or even bad-tempered) warning is likely to have Bad Consequences so take heed.

3. This point left intentionally blank.
Originally Posted by Sadurian
Originally Posted by drimaxus
Chill, we are just having fun, I am not even a native English speaker. And it was all in answer to an aggressive user that said that using bold and ALLCAPS is an "angry gamer attitude", why are you attacking me for then?

Two points to make here. Normally we don't give such missives, but it should be useful for others in future posts to understand how we think:

1. Please don't tell Admins and Mods to 'chill' or to do anything else. We take it quite badly and will bear terrible grudges until the end of time. If you want to explain your previous behaviour or tone then by all means do so.

2. Nobody is attacking you. If you happen to be quoted in a thread warning it is likely that you are simply the last poster in the exchange and are being quoted to add context to the warning. If you are addressed directly (i.e. your user name is used in the warning) then you can assume that it is directly targeted at you. In either case, ignoring the friendly (or even bad-tempered) warning is likely to have Bad Consequences so take heed.

3. This point left intentionally blank.



Oh no please Lord Admin, not a terrible grudge! We beg ya for your mercy, yer highness!

There has to be a way of undoing the curse, how am I going to live with myself if I get banned from this forum? Shall I send cupcakes to your address to remedy the pain and shame I have brought upon the Admin family?
Well that escalated quickly
Originally Posted by Abits
Well that escalated quickly


Time to bring out the Borat thongs you think?
We demand more sexy forum drama.
We can't even respect a friendly moderator warning sometimes. And this is why Larian better not get involved with forum posting. They better spend their time making the game, than explain things that can't be explained nor should be. No point getting involved in toxicity that leads nowhere.
Originally Posted by LoneSky
We can't even respect a friendly moderator warning sometimes. And this is why Larian better not get involved with forum posting. They better spend their time making the game, than explain things that can't be explained nor should be. No point getting involved in toxicity that leads nowhere.


Let's not generalize. There is a lot of constructive feedback that requires Larian's answers, so people would either stop going that way overall or add more ideas and details.
Originally Posted by drimaxus

This whole month I found out my view is very much on the same page with most of the BG3 EA reviews and with many users that posted similar thoughts, this game needs a big rework.


And that is the exact delusion that caused me to post this: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=735823#Post735823 And even if you are talking about the vocal minority here and not the professional reviews it is completely dishonest to state that most of the reviews are asking for a big rework. Yes, people want things added and changed. Big Rework ... very few.


Ya know, Larian might have been lurking incognito on these forums this whole time.

Maybe someone in this chatroom is a mole. Or a frog.
Originally Posted by Argyle
Ya know, Larian might have been lurking incognito on these forums this whole time.

Maybe someone in this chatroom is a mole. Or a frog.


When nearly every single post that isn't sex-related is all a big guessing game and has devolved into people arguing with each other about the things that Larian is or isn't doing, I highly doubt that anyone of consequence that's in a position to influence change directly is just hanging out and taking a silent beating. If they are actually looking, it means one of two things: They see the outcry and they don't care because all of the suggestions being made don't fit their design or vision for the game, or they see the outcry and do care, but they're forbidden from giving any finite answers or responses because the early development process is a mess right now.

Do you remember how they basically had to drag an EA release date out of Sven over the course of a few different panels, and how he looked visibly uncomfortable giving even one solid answer on a date despite the fact that the build that we have is a playable, yet broken mess? The company very clearly doesn't prioritize responses and doesn't manage expectations well. If that's the professional stance, you can't expect for the standard forum member to be any more reasonable when they don't get any answers.
Originally Posted by Argyle
Ya know, Larian might have been lurking incognito on these forums this whole time.


That's for sure, I already saw how quickly they reacted to forum posts, a few times even before early access, like about adding GoG to early access and not keeping just on Steam for example.

Now they just need to post somewhere about the issues expressed in feedbacks, (and not just analytics) which they are considering worth implementing, without promising anything. If there's any.
Though I can see already that anything will be used against them by some of us, no matter what they say. A risk worth taking in this case IMHO.

Anything is better, than leaving the impression that we just wasting our time on feedback. That's why I never post on Ubisoft or EA forums, they certainly won't care. There has to be a middle ground between "the huge evil corporate" silence and spending most of time talking to players (that some smaller game devs do) instead working on that game.
Originally Posted by Argyle
Ya know, Larian might have been lurking incognito on these forums this whole time.

Maybe someone in this chatroom is a mole. Or a frog.

One of the moderators (The Composer) has explicitly said that they've personally been compiling feedback, collecting it from Discord and summarizing it for easier processing.
https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=93594&Number=719776#Post719776
I'm not sure of the specifics in how this collected feedback goes from The Composer to Larian, how high they are in the hierarchy, or who is in charge of collecting data from this forum, but feedback is being compiled.

Originally Posted by LoneSky
Now they just need to post somewhere about the issues expressed in feedbacks, (and not just analytics) which they are considering worth implementing, without promising anything. If there's any.
Though I can see already that anything will be used against them by some of us, no matter what they say. A risk worth taking in this case IMHO.

+1 This is the type of update I'm really really looking forward to reading.
Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by Argyle
Ya know, Larian might have been lurking incognito on these forums this whole time.

Maybe someone in this chatroom is a mole. Or a frog.

One of the moderators (The Composer) has explicitly said that they've personally been compiling feedback, collecting it from Discord and summarizing it for easier processing.
https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=93594&Number=719776#Post719776
I'm not sure of the specifics in how this collected feedback goes from The Composer to Larian, how high they are in the hierarchy, or who is in charge of collecting data from this forum, but feedback is being compiled.

Originally Posted by LoneSky
Now they just need to post somewhere about the issues expressed in feedbacks, (and not just analytics) which they are considering worth implementing, without promising anything. If there's any.
Though I can see already that anything will be used against them by some of us, no matter what they say. A risk worth taking in this case IMHO.

+1 This is the type of update I'm really really looking forward to reading.


The most "valuable" information we've seen so far has been the percentage of people that had sex with Minthara.
Normally I'd take that as a tongue-in-cheek reply, but the silence on actual issues that have been reported countless times is problematic to say the least.
Originally Posted by drimaxus

I would like to politely disagree with the part where the audience doesn't know what they want,

You are absolutely right. It was a vague and unnecessarily provocative statement on my part. What I wanted to say was that players can fail to properly identify their problems with the game. Even if feedback is good, it might not be right for the game Larian is making. Listening to audience is important, but so is processing it.
Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by drimaxus

I would like to politely disagree with the part where the audience doesn't know what they want,

You are absolutely right. It was a vague and unnecessarily provocative statement on my part. What I wanted to say was that players can fail to properly identify their problems with the game. Even if feedback is good, it might not be right for the game Larian is making. Listening to audience is important, but so is processing it.


I think the joy of discovery is one of the most profound human experiences possible. There is nothing even remotely similar to discovering the thing you never knew you were incomplete without. People rarely know what they want. Why do you think so many lead unfulfilling lives? Why else would depression be at an all time high in an age where one can literally live anywhere or do anything they desire with little more than a whim and and some initiative required?

No, people don't know what they want only what they have had.
Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
Originally Posted by drimaxus

Alice, I would also like to introduce you to punctuation and capital letters in addition to bold, cursive and ALL CAPS. It is called Hierarchy and Structure, for better understanding of the text. You should try to implement it sometimes, not everything is snapchat in this life!

rules are for breaking

I guess what I should say is this, “drimaxus,” since I think you deserve a fuller answer: the subtle and not so subtle manipulation of language conventions for comedic effect and the use of irony to lampoon risible targets is a tradition that goes back thousands of years. In fact it should be self evident that I am simply continuing the tradition of Martial, Horace, Plautus even, choosing to ply my humble art among the gamer masses, while you are gesticulating impotently in the direction of Grammarly, thus vindicating my original choice to deliberately and methodically eschew the rules and conventions of, how do you say, “Hierarchy and Structure.”



Aww yeah, this is what I was waiting for. I told that person they was gonna get wrecked.

Picking a fight with a_a? Foolhardy.

Then picking a fight with the mods? Fatal.
Originally Posted by DistantStranger


I think the joy of discovery is one of the most profound human experiences possible. There is nothing even remotely similar to discovering the thing you never knew you were incomplete without. People rarely know what they want. Why do you think so many lead unfulfilling lives? Why else would depression be at an all time high in an age where one can literally live anywhere or do anything they desire with little more than a whim and and some initiative required?

No, people don't know what they want only what they have had.



I like this post a lot. Well said.
They also might know what they don't want.

I had the chicken pox. I don't want them.
Originally Posted by Anfindel
They also might know what they don't want.

I had the chicken pox. I don't want them.

Very illustrative.
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
Originally Posted by alice_ashpool
Originally Posted by drimaxus

Alice, I would also like to introduce you to punctuation and capital letters in addition to bold, cursive and ALL CAPS. It is called Hierarchy and Structure, for better understanding of the text. You should try to implement it sometimes, not everything is snapchat in this life!

rules are for breaking

I guess what I should say is this, “drimaxus,” since I think you deserve a fuller answer: the subtle and not so subtle manipulation of language conventions for comedic effect and the use of irony to lampoon risible targets is a tradition that goes back thousands of years. In fact it should be self evident that I am simply continuing the tradition of Martial, Horace, Plautus even, choosing to ply my humble art among the gamer masses, while you are gesticulating impotently in the direction of Grammarly, thus vindicating my original choice to deliberately and methodically eschew the rules and conventions of, how do you say, “Hierarchy and Structure.”



Aww yeah, this is what I was waiting for. I told that person they was gonna get wrecked.

Picking a fight with a_a? Foolhardy.

Then picking a fight with the mods? Fatal.

and what contributive value are your posts, literally just stirring shit?
Okay. This thread is going nowhere and is starting to breed toxic posts.
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