Hopefully, this patch puts an end to all the negativity about them not listening to feedback because there are a lot of FANTASTIC changes that are obviously based on feedback.

No, they didn't address everything some of YOU individually wanted and never will, but I am very happy about many of the changes.

Some I question..."Melee Sneak Attack now requires a finesse weapon." So you cant make a STR based rogue?

Yes, many of you are still gonna have major complaints, but please tell me we can agree that this is a big, positive step.

You must be new to the internet if you think people are gonna ever stop complaining.

Yeah, no big changes, but overall shows some promise.



Of course you can. You can use finesse with STR bonus if it's higher. Or you can use heavy weapon for first attack and then two offhand attacks cheese. Still won't apply Sneak Attack, but the damage is equivalent or bigger (at this level of course, later SA gets more) due to trivial bugs that haven't been fixed yet in this patch.

I looked up the rules on Sneak Attack. "The Attack must use a Finesse or a ranged weapon." So its inline w/ 5e which many people will like. Rip STR rogue build. Oh well.

Why does that mean RIP strength rogue? Just use a finesse weapon. Finesse doesn't mean you can't use strength.

Well, 5e rules do state that you must use a ranged or finesse weapon to qualify for sneak attack... but they also state that you may use either strength or dexterity for your attack/damage roll with a finesse weapon. So you could still make a rogue with a high strength and low dexterity, but you would not be able to use non-finesse weapons and sneak attack at the same time. Not sure what the use case for this would be, but its not impossible.

yesssssssssss

I was waiting for this post :P
I agree with you on this and am very happy that Larian has made such significant and welcome changes (surfaces, companion disapproval, pacifist exp), some of which were big topics on these forums.

In addition, they gave us a timeline for patch 4 ("expect patch 4 after the holidays"), which addresses the other big criticism: their lack of communication.
Hopefully they will continue this level of communication, and in the ~first week of January they will give us more details on a specific date (or maybe even drop the patch!). Even something as vague as "we should have it out by the end of January" would be good.

However, I still think that communication prior to this patch was poor enough that the negativity was justified, but if Larian continues with this level of response to feedback/giving timelines of patches, then I will be happy.

I totally agree with no strength based rouges from a balance and flavor standpoint.

Actually, complaining about complaining and responding to negativity with negativity is his shtick.

Really impressed that they made some substantial changes.

If Larian removed surfaces from cantrips, they are willing to change anything in the game.

Was about to say this. Almost(?) every post by the OP I see is a (passive-)aggressive comment directed at people criticizing Larian/BG3, be the criticisms constructive or douche-y.

THEY LISTEN!

The change itself ( amount of work they needed to do ) was not so substantial, but the effect on gameplay certainly is.

Even better that Larian recognised the need to reward progress that is not based on killing everything.

I've always felt that, Ideally, advancement in videogames should be based around improvements in the skills and abilities you actually use, rather than abstract choose-a-random-upgrade. The original DnD versions justified abstract levelling by saying it was supposed to take several months of training to achieve your new abilities; but that's not really going to work in a videogame like BG3

They're literally one of the very few gaming companies that actually care about the feedback they receive and work with it!!!

I think a few people (including myself) need to learn to have patience and remember that this is a game that is in its early stages of release and many of us dont know the process of game making!

It's not just about patience. I can be patient, I understand developing a huge game is no piece of cake, but to be patient I need to know that changes are actually coming and feedback is being seriously considered. This patch is a good sign and can ease up some worries. Now we need to see how far they're willing to go with this - some of the improvements I consider the most important would require a certain degree of decisiveness (/breaking status quo) and/or substantial workload.

You don't understand how finesse weapons work. They use whichever bonus is higher, whether it is DEX or STR. See SRD entry:

Finesse. When making an attack with a finesse weapon, you use your choice of your Strength or Dexterity modifier for the attack and damage rolls. You must use the same modifier for both rolls.

And you both see what you want to see because that is ridiculously far from the truth, but the patch has put me in too good of a mood to take your bait.



Because the point of STR rogue was to dual wield awesome weapons like Shattered Flail and Dragons' Grasp which are not finessed while getting sneak attacks. There are no awesome finesse weapons (yet?).


I think it's you that is not understanding, see above.

They're absolutely right in their characterization of you though. You're more childish and indignant than the strawman you built up in your head. Aside from leaving the house more maybe, you'd do just as well with a "humble pie" yourself

Well you tried to play a rogue as a warrior with free damage bonus, that was a bug and it was fixed. Now you can properly play a STR Rogue. What you mentioned was not 5e also. I think other posters thought you said "STR rogue according to 5e" but you actually said "STR rogue according to RumRunner151"

Nah, its you mate.

STR Rogue. Mainhand your finesse weapon, offhand attack with strength weapon. if you're worried about low AC from Dex, pick a githyanki/Dwarf. Take the heavy armor feat at lvl 4(heavy armor +1 strength),now you don't need dex at all(unless you care about initiative). I understand EA has crap heavy armour, but digging around the files, you can see many +1 and +2 Heavy armours with 17-18 base AC + 1, +2 modify. Eventually a STR rogue could do very well.

As well ,you could open up with rapier poke sneak attack, switch weapons to something strength. You could use githyanki again, poke with a rapier for opening sneak attack, swap it to your offhand. get two more pokes. Next turn. swap to 2H sword, and wack with GWM feat. unequip, 2h sword, and offhand your rapier, for two more pokes lol. 2d12+1 +(modifiers) +10(GWM) with the Tyr Sword, 1d8 ,1d8 offhand as a thief.

Strength also has the benefit of Shoving, and Athletics(jumping). So there's that.

I suggest that instead of responding to Rumrunner's negativity about negativity with a third layer of negativity we all just report his passive-aggressive flame-baiting to the mods and let them decide when or if it crosses the line.

That's enough of the personal comments, thank you.


The topic is fine in itself, but as above, people should avoid making personal remarks.

See, for some reason mods, in this case, do not see it as a flame bait. Interesting. I do, though. And I see this baiting working, too.

+1

I'm not sure I see the point of a SRT rogue; stealth, sleight of hand, ranged weapons and initiative are DEX. Why do you want a rogue with high AC but low stealth and SoH? High AC also often means disadvantage on stealth due to armor. Seems like you would be better off with a straight martial class if you want high AC and straight up damage.

Not to say a rogue has to dump strength, but I'd still want a high DEX and CON before putting to many points into STR. Unless you're going Arcane Trickster, which seems pointless with all the scrolls in the game, INT, WIS, and CHA could all be dumped giving a rogue good DEX, CON, and STR.

Am I missing something?

My faith in them was already pretty strong, but now it's on lock.

So if you have a Wood Half-Elf Rogue that dual wields...Their stats are 16-16-14-8-10-10 and they have a Rapier in one hand and a Long Sword in the other....Will they be able to sneak attack?

Balancing Changes:
Melee Sneak Attack now requires a finesse weapon.

Yes if the rapier is in your main hand since it is a finesse weapon(I'm not sure if you can SA with your off hand weapon but I'm guessing no).
You would get a sneak attack with the rapier and the long sword would be a bonus attack.

Except they are not. Not only can you find many posts with me thanking people for their suggestions, give people having problems help, etc., you will even find ones where I disagree but still thank them like:


I am glad to see though that of my 400+ posts and probably less than a dozen negative or inflammatory ones, they stand out in people's minds. I'd hate to think my purposefully inflammatory comments weren't being noticed. I don't want to be forgettable LoL.

Not a lot has been changed yes the spells were welcome, but the companions still feel the same to me, and the combat mechanics are still pretty bad to play.. Barrelmancy is not removed.

Are you serious?
Making <Negative> criticism for feedback on the game is the whole point of this forum. Thanks to that, hey will you look at that! We got a GREAT patch. Thanks Larian.

I don't think this would of happened if everyone here were positive rose and peachy sugar coat-me lala landers just preaching how good the game is 24/7.
The concise critics/negativity and Larian listening IS what is bringing on change.

I'm gonna have to type a sentence now that I never suspected I would.

"I actually agree with mr_planescapist here."

The criticism IS important, and people shouldn't stop doing it. If everyone just posts "great game, 10/10, GOTY, perfect, love it, thx Larian, take my money (again), I am naming my baby Swen" all the time, the game doesn't get improved. Or at least, not AS improved as it could be.

They are being noticed and for the wrong reasons. Kindly desist.

*swoon*

Sven is a good name for your baby though

People need to keep in mind criticism and negativity or two different things.

One says "this isn't working for x reason, please consider fixing it". The other says "it doesn't matter what you say, they'll never listen, they just wanted to get our money and do whatever they would do anyway".

Hopefully, this patch will encourage folks to continue the former, and stop at least SOME folks from continuing the latter.


Now, where are those gnomish pistoliers wearing sexy grass thong armor?

Yeah, exactly. I hate the latter, and I feel compelled to either argue with or make fun of those people (in a perfect world, both at the same time!). I know it's not really helpful or constructive, but it makes me feel slightly better about the soulless desolation that is my existence, so whaddaya gonna do?

I have no problem with people making arguments or posting opinions that are different from mine, even opposite of mine, as long as they communicate in a reasonable manner. It's not the specific points that people are making that put a bee in my bonnet, it's when they use some kind of bullshit RHETORIC (most of which is naked hyperbole at best).

Totally agree with both of you. Please give constructive criticism and advocate for things I don't want or like. I'm totally cool with it. But be a douche about it and may get "inflammatory".



We both have to do what we feel is right. I try to not do personal attacks. I also believe in conflict resolution by forcing things to come to a head and challenging their BS. There have been a few adversarial threads where we ended up agreeing after I was "inflammatory". That's a good result in spite of the fact that you may not like how I got there. At some point, you (or other moderators) my decide I crossed a line and I may get a temporary or even a permanent ban. When/if that happens, I will accept it. I certainly will not be a jerk to the mod responsible as I understand they have a job to do. But, I will not accept people being dicks either. That means I will flirt with the line. So... again... We both have to do what we feel is right. Until such time, I will continue to put forth way more good than bad and hope that the net effect is a positive one. Chaotic Good in DnD terms.

if larian really listened to criticism they would have:

replaced companions with a suite of demure waifus to carry your sword and armor around
made all the armor sexy
made every dice roll automatically pass
got rid of the mindflayer parasite
put in repeatable daily quests
made it first person

Larian doesn't care about the community, it seems. Sad.

Don't forget making sex with Kagha a quest reward (yes, he really did suggest that), or removing all of the cinematic dialogues that I'm sure they didn't put all THAT much work into.

lmao id forgotten about the requests to get rid of voice acting and cinematics


Personally i'm pretty disappointed that larian have ignored community feedback yet again by not shifting the game to the infinity engine.

Updated list:

replaced companions with a suite of demure waifus to carry your sword and armor around
made all the armor sexy
made every dice roll automatically pass
got rid of the mindflayer parasite
put in repeatable daily quests
made it first person
sex with Kagha
remove cinematics
get rid of voice acting
top down only
use infinity engine

Unfortunately the new patch causes massive lag spikes whenever a line of dialogue is loaded or when the AI thinks during combat, so this makes the game unstable and hard to play at the moment. I got the latest drivers for my (mid-tier) graphics card but that does not seem to be the cause of the issue, graphics hardly impact the lag at all.

Pretty good, yeah. I think everyone can agree that THIS is the game that all true fans of Baldur's Gate want.

What happened to the Gnomish Pistoliers in sexy thong armor?

I am all for better graphics, etc., but to tell the truth, I absolutely would buy BG III even if it used the old Infinity engine. And especially if there is an encounter with Shaella, Priestess of Leira.

I'd rather be a squeaky wheel who gets grease and eat humble pie honestly. Let's see if they fix the HP problem.

Basically what I got out of this post, is that people complaining is stupid and the negativity needs to end..but it's alright with you complaining about 'No STR Rogues' and then when people are telling you that your argument is not correct, you're arguing with them. What makes you different from everyone else? Negative feedback is still feedback, regardless who it comes from. What matters is how people go about providing that feedback/criticism.

Humble pie can be quite nice, e.g. steak and kidney. Similarly haggis, which is delicious but I made the mistake of reading too much detail about its preparation. Don't do that, it's worse than you think.

Did you get a clockwise or counter-clockwise haggis? That's why they have four legs in a row of decreasing length from left to right. These ones run round the Scottish Hillsides in a counterclockwise manner as seen from above. If legs increase from left to right they run clockwise. This is all to do with the mating habits of the haggis, but I will say no more on that subject.

Eating haggis is a grand excuse for having a malt whisky (or 2). What's not to like.

People need an excuse other than, "I have single malt sat undrunk"?

Mating habits of the haggis? Whoa, I always thought haggis was just a type of sheep sausage? As for humble pie, I would like mine to be banana cream with a graham-cracker crust. And a whisky sounds good, too.

Fan feedback has been an essential part of D&D development since its inception, and by extension, the same applies to the computer games. That's why I post here, to be part of the community who (hopefully) makes a great game.

Gods damn it, now I want steak and kidney pie for lunch.

THIS. This is basically the thesis statement behind 90% of my posts on here.


Edit: Actually, I lied. My thesis statement is actually...

oh no, I am become all monsters

Haggis is actually delicious. It's carbs and meat which is what everyone likes anyway.

You keep mentioning this. Is it a reference to something?

This thread might shed some light on it for you

Yeah I think the first comment there is mine... I still don't know what the hell is it

Just roll with it!

There was a thread where one user used the phrase in the context of criticizing how the companions are quite over-the-top. Firesnakearies proceeded to use it as a meme-phrase.

im certainly on board with making all armor sexy

right now most of them are pretty drab, might aswell make em crotchless for additional intimidation factor

Just repeat the meme, don't think about it. It means what you want it to mean.

Postmodern.. I like it