Dear Larian,

i have to say that i liked and bought BOTH DoS1 and 2 during Early Access and was never disapointet.
The world was very detailed. The Combat was plain hilarious and somewhat "overdone" but it fitet well into the comedy-like world with all its joking and very humorous approach. It felt at some point like a fantasy-Game within the Discworld by Terry Pratchet.
With Baldurs gate you recreated alot of what made DOS1 and 2 enjoyable.


I read ALOT of Novels and to be honest.... almost ALL of that Novels are based upon 3.5 and even books that are newly written dont take notice of 4.0 ever happend (storywise).
Immersion is a huge Factor for me in a RPG. I want to immagine the game like a Novel. And here comes the Problem with BG3. Some things just dont fit into the World.

I am not talking about minor things like some Lore violations or stuff like this. Its about totaly immersion-breaking stuff.

For example the food healing...... the thought that you bite into an apple DURING a swordfight to heal your wounds is horrible. And we are not talking about special rare magical food like "Goodberries" conjured by a druid. We talking about EVERY food and the totaly abundance of its availability. Mechanicaly it trivialises also the importance of certain classes. Who needs a Priest when i can get a Cook for combat healing. In DOS1 and 2 it was fitting as everything was hilarous. In BG3 this a Immersion Killer.


Another thing ist the jumping...... This nonstop Super Mario combat where everyone jumps around several yards even upwards even from a "standing still" position or while engaged in a sword fight. And no its not about the broken Disengagement system..... i am Talking about the JUMPING. THis is like wathing a Chineese Ghost story film. Everyone flies around ignoring gravity and trading blows while jumping. It fits in a Chineese martial Arts theme. But it doesnt fit into a DND game. In fact it totaly ruins the Immersion to a degree that it becomes activly negative experience.

In fact i couldnt even motivate myself to start the game again since Patch3 as all that changed was that barrelmancy is abit less hilarious than before. I have the impression that this game will keep its "DoS comedy-spirit" while at the same time trying to be serious and very adult (death of children, Brains ripped, Tadpole-Horror, etc.). And that MIX is making it far more worse that if they stick to either style. And patches and communications so far indicate that this "mix" WILL stay no matter what people say.


So i have a request:
Could you make a special event where people can refund the game for half its price? We all know that you CANT see or get a feel for such a massive game in the 2 Hours period of steam (no matter if EA or not).
It would be a very nice move for the People who bought the game just because of the Name Baldurs Gate (with the logical Expectations behind it based upon the previous titles).
Just refund for HALF the Price. I think there are some people who would deeply appreciate this. Is there any Chance?

With a game not being finished, I don’t think asking for refund is unreasonable. GOG allows to ask for the refund for EA at any point as long as the game isn’t released yet.

Yes but have been buying all Larian games on steam
So Larian ist the one to adress to maybe make a refund possible (even if only at half price) or alternativly the comitment that all theese immersion breaking things are placeholder because game is not finished. But to me it seems game-design is finished and only content missing.

I'd honestly scratch up the eating food mid combat mechanic as a bug, it shouldn't be possible for me to mid combat magic pockets my mule char's buffet

out of combat go hog wild on the food healing folks tho, tho in combat health consumes should be limited to healing potions etc,

Afaik larian has stated they're listening to feedback and are evening considering expanding the default party size (!!!) so designwise it feels like things aren't entirely set in stone (yet)

Well would be awesome if they did but they are very rarely comunicating with the fans..... MUCH less that used to be in DOS games.

Some things arent even mentioned by them despite tons of written threads regarding certain things........ It feels like they are intentionaly evading discussions about these things.

Because too many players. It's like when a streamer has 10 viewers they can pretty much respond to every message, but if there are thousands of viewers and a flying wall of text chances are streamer will never notice your particular message.

You mean they never ever saw a thread where people complain it lacks DnD feeling?

Probably have, how should I know? lol

What they do with that information is also unkown currently.

Correct! And thats the most disturbing thing.... not commenting at it or not even mentioning it while a few words could work wonder if they wanted.
Ignoring the fans critics didnt go well with other games...... looking at "sword coast Legends" or "Dawn of War3".

I think it feels like DnD. A lot of players think it feels like DnD. I do sympathize with those that are not enjoying the game though as its a big title with a big IP and something thats dear to a lot of players hearts. Stay with it, the modders will provide the changes most people are looking for. When you think anout it, we are pretty well served with decent RPG's. Could be swamped with ported console actions games and (spits) battle royale titles.

I agree with you op about food and jumping. On my second playthrough and really abusing the jump and its absolutely ridiculous. Just as you said, its like super Mario world out here now haha. The only thing missing is an occasion coin popping up.

What’s funny is I didn’t even know you could heal by eating at first. I thought it was so ridiculous that they would do such a thing. But then I learned you could even eat in combat. I suppose it’s optional so I’m not too concerned about it.

It’s like Larian never bothered to open any D&D rule book.

Get a grip people - they allow for different mechanics to cover a wider audience. The food I think is great but you can self police - I only use it outside combat & I rest less.
It brings something different and enjoyable to the game - I do support though the ability to eat during combat being disabled.
The latest patch has made jumping so much better & as for it don’t feel like D&D that’s just plain wrong - in my opinion.

I don't understand how someone can buy a game clearly labeled "early access - not a final product - do not buy if you want a final product - warning, stuff will be changing" and then want their money back when it turns out to be an unfinished beta product undergoing many changes - as labeled.

Then again, I can never understand adults who see a sign that says "Danger - Do Not Enter - Electric Fence - Guard Dogs - Crocodile Moat - You Will be Maimed or Die" and then enter and get...well maimed or die. And then of course return from the grave to sue the owner. Yes, I'm a lawyer and STILL don't understand what some folks are thinking.

They are possibly evading discussions as to avoid spoilers. But so far I don't think the game is all that bad there are some things that I would like to see fixed like with the feats and some of the bonuses on weapons not working and the fact that there are what is essentially 12th level enemies going against 4th level players which to me is an over kill.

I see no way for this request to be taken seriously by Larian. This is not a Cyberpunk 2077 like failure, where investors were lied to, console versions were hidden from the public until release, so on. The rules for playing an early version of BG3 have been so clearly laid out since the beginning, the whole "not a finished product" thing.

And I have a feeling doing this would open another can of worms, there would be people complaning things like "I only played three hours, I should get a 90% refund, why should I get the same 50% refund as players who went through 30 hours!!"

Bruh.

Go back and play Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate II, and then come back to complain about an "immersion-breaking" combination of tragedy and comedy.
None of the previous Baldur's Gate games were totally serious and "realistic" (whatever that is supposed to mean in a world where dragons are flying around, breathing fire at a techno-organic airship that teleports and houses extraplanar, alien beings who like to multiply their numbers by inserting parasites into the eye sockets of members of other races).

"GO FOR THE EYES, BOO!"

'Nuff said.

Never said anything about humor. It’s about thing that totally violate logic or lore. In your opinion it surely would be ok if you can ram your enemy’s with a super Mario-kart (because Fantasy) but for me this sucks then

BG 1 and 2 were games presenting adventures in the D & D Forgotten Realms, specifically the Sword Coast region, using substantial aspects of the 2.0 rule set and lore specific to the territory, characters, magic, bestiary, and history of that part of Fearun.

BG3 is a game presenting adventures in the D & D Forgotten Realms, specifically the Sword Coast region, using the 5.0 rule set, and lore specific to the territory, characters, magic, bestiary, and history of that part of Faerun.

While YOU may not see enough ties to that prior lore, they are there - and once we get to a full game, and not 10-20 % at best, will surely be there to a greater degree.

So it is clearly BG3.

Being BG3 does NOT require reversion to 2.0 rules (and I for one still am a fan of 1.0 and 2.0 rules), does NOT require it to return to the same protagonist, and does NOT require it to hold to the exact same technical/mechanical rules. BG and 2 utterly ignored the 3rd dimension - you could not climb to a roof, rappel down a cliff wall, swim down a river and so on. Games now allow for such interactions with the environment - should BG3 be forced to limit itself to only what existed back in BG1/2 era? I personally enjoy the IDEA of fire doing more damage in a flammable environment, and electricity doing more harm to someone standing in water. Do they have it down perfect yet? Maybe not, but there is still plenty of time left to perfect it. Do I like barrelmancy? Not to the degree that initially existed, but they are already toning it down - and again, I don't have a problem with blowing the crap out of a brewery, where a big huge vat of alcohol is appropriate - rather than a privy (though certain gasses tend to build up in those old school privies that might operate in a similar fashion). I am happy to watch BG3 explore the impact lighting, elevation, terrain partial cover) and the like as they are being implemented and tuned - none of which existed in BG1/2.

Nor do I expect the vast majority of characters from BG1 and 2 to still be alive and kicking in BG3 - 100 years have passed after all, in the equivalent of the middle ages - not an era known for longevity (at least in humans).

If you decide to have a child, you don't get to return him/her if they don't grow up the way you like, and get back the money you spent raising it.

If you decide to buy a game in EA, essentially a child, you don't get to return it because you don't like the way it's turning out either.

Agree with everything you laid out in the OP... i haven't jumped on since shortly after the patch either... konked out after about 160hrs.. im still holding out hope they fix enough, particularly with combat mechanics, to make it a game id keep replaying...

i like they tried to bring back some elements of 3.5ed with 5ed compared to whatever they were thinking with 4ed.. but im still not all about it... even less about larians take on it so far..

i haven't played any larian games before this... jury still out on them for me... after the wow of some of the cinematics wears off, im not sure how much i enjoyed whats there so far... will still be following.... and having already paid my $60, ill be checking out the final product regardless of whether i sign on again before that... enough potential still there imo and cant imagine not trying out a Balders Gate game...

Jumping around the terrain is fine, but the jumping in combat needs to be cut down. It makes the jump spell a little irrelevant.
I would also like to see climbing and rope use used instead of all the jumping. Some jumping is fine, but having to carry a rope and climbing gear sounds a lot more D&D to me than jumping does (there is a LOT of rope in this game already).

Food is also an issue. I also try and self police, but sometimes it is all you have (I'd rather that then constantly going to camp to have a long rest- which I don't do until my party really needs it).
Perhaps food could also be corrected by having to make food out of ingredients, with some already prepared food available as well (buy or find). Eating raw potatoes to get better doesn't seam right!
Larian could also limit the amount of food you could eat. This would also increase the desire of people to make food in the game, which has better healing powers. You would still have to be careful that it doesn't take the place of healing spells and potions.

As far as discounts or refunds are concerned. Sorry, I don't agree with that. This is EA and we bought in knowing that. If it was a finished game and it was broken, I'd understand completely.

Uh, having a game set in Forgotten realms lore with D&D doesnt make it a Baldurs gate game.

Showed the game to friends (not giving away the title of course) everyones first impression : WOW Divnity Original Sins 3!!!?
So yea.

Firstly you have GAMEPLAY. For me the most important indicator of WHAT A GAME IS. Does it play like BG2? No. Does it try to evolve that game system? NO. DOS2 roots.
The UI, inventory management and presentation. Like BG2? No. Does it try to keep a similar theme/design but a bit more modern? NO. DOS2 roots.
The atmosphere, graphics? Again NO. Does it try to improve and update these systems? NO. DOS2 roots.
Huge dialogue trees, tons of playable characters including a party of 6 (tied to that gameplay element) ? NO. DOS2 roots.

The story and setting? Yes...hopefully.
A new D&D system? Ok, yes! BUT heavily borrows again from DOS2. Aaaand thats all you got thats similar.

The game should be called , <Dawn of the Illithids, > a D&D RPG cinematic adventure made by Larian, makers of the acclaimed DOS1 and 2 games!

I dont dislike BG3 nor do I love it. It just does not feel like a Baldurs gate game which is disappointing. Right now its a pretty good strategic RPG, a D&Dized DOS2 with clunky cinematic dialogues.

This has been said a thousand times, but I will say it again.

1. The previous games are too old. Do you want same graphics? Like 20 years ago? I'm not!

2. Do I want a "slideshow" gameplay with old mechanics? NO plz

3. About atmosphere, perhaps, I agree. I hope it gets darker as the story progresses..

There is too much time difference between the games, this game is made not only for old generation of fans, but also to attract new players who have never played Baldur's Gate. And trust me, new players may not like old mechanics and design. Personally, I hate them. Again, I'm not saying the game doesn't have problems. Yes, there are problems, but this is not about OLD BG.

Also some ppl never played DOS and they will never call this game DOS3 because it is a new experience for them.

Also, each developer has its own "features", I remind you that a new game is being made by another developer on a different game engine. And this is important.

This has been said a thousand times, but I will say it again.

1) no one asked for 20 years old graphics.

2) no one asked for old mechanics to be implemented as they were in a new game (except maybe for party movement because what was done 20 years ago was better than the chain mechanic)

3) yes, maybe... I hope more companionship, a better feeling of a journey across the swordcoast.

What does time has to do with this ?
Isn't there new games that looks or feel way more like BG than BG3 does ?

+1 i agree with max - these just come off as straw man arguments/responses that dont actually work to address the valid criticism being cited of an early access dnd 5e video game, we all can do better as a community/fanbase here.

regarding the atmosphere point, i do agree that the current plot/atmosphere feels a little too 'vibrant' or 'campy' for the bg ip - idk, it is hard to describe, but i just feel like the current build/world is too full of bright colors. in particular when compared to the opening cinematic.

> The atmosphere, graphics? Again NO.
> The UI, inventory management and presentation. Like BG2?

No one? Yes?

Maybe I misunderstood post I was responding to, but it's very likely that some of you want literally the same game. Even in a graphic sense, lol.

Also I think inventory in BG2 is terrible. Yes in BG3 inventory system is not perfect too, but this is not a reason to do exactly the same inventory like in old BG. It just needs to be changed, in a new way.

The genre must evolve and change, including mechanics and gameplay elements.

Many games in this genre have tried to simply copy BG, such as PoE. And what Obsidian doing now? Oh, yes, some kind of action game that can be sold much better. If you want to make a genre popular (cuz now it's not very popular if you compare sales with action games), then you need to change it, not follow the old mechanics, because " the fans remember it that way".

Make this game better? Yes.
Make it look like the old ones? Nope.

Even if you and some of the old fans think that "everything was better before."

This is my opinion.

Yes, you missunderstood what you read.
"Looking like" and "feel like" doesn't mean it has to be the exact same without any improvement.

Make this game better? Yes.
This is probably what everyone still posting here want.

Even if you and some of the younger fans think that "everything is better now".
Looks like even if this has been said a thousand times... you still don't (try to) understand.

Before purchasing this game on Stadia, I was only familiar with the name Baldur's Gate due to my having played all of the Dragon Age games, by it's original developer (Bioware). I've never dabbled with D & D stuff either. Personally, while I read the constant back and forth between hardcore fans that are acquainted with the rulebooks for that stuff and those who like me are more console oriented gamers ... I'm not too bothered by Larian perhaps bending those rules a bit.

The game is in early access and nobody knows if the final release will be more palatable to the former group or whether it will be geared to a broader audience? Like I said, I'm not too bothered either way. I'm liking what I see and am far more annoyed at glitches or bugs that plague this game on Stadia at the moment.

I already told you, I also think game has problems, so I don't think "everything is better now". I just think devs must add something new and not copy old. Adding old mechanics "like in BG2" is not a solution to problem.
It's an indulgence of your nostalgia.

Also it is very convenient to ignore inconvenient phrases, but oh well.

Something new ? Absolutely. Who said something else ?

Adding old mechanics could be a solution to specific problems yes. An exemple ? The chain mechanic.
It was obviously better.

Inconvenient phrase ? Obsidian ?

Do you really think PoE would have been more sucessfull with another UI, with a party of 4, with a chain, with a list to fast travel between locations or with less companions ? Because that's a few exemples of what "looking more like BG" mean.

Out of all the PoE complaints, mechanics or ui were not really ones that came up a lot if at all. Story and loredumping with blocks of text was the main issue.

Ugh. I mean, Obsidian lost money. No matter how good their game is, if they can't make money on it. Because it's only interested for old players. Ask yourself why latest Obsidian game is so different. Why this is an action game. This is not news at all.



Well. you know wut? Maybe. As far as I know, DOS2 is also considered a very good game, and it includes all things that you so terribly hate.

PoE has its flaws, sure. That does not immediatly mean the mechanics are bad. It also does not mean these mechanics alone can carry the game to make it a bestseller if the rest is missing. It is not all black and white.

A good game can still be received poorly due to people not liking the setting or writing, not because it is not a popular genre or mechanics anymore.


Regarding DOS2, it is considered a good game despite those mentioned mechanics, not because of them.

Does DoS 2 considered a good game because of its UI, its short number of companions, its chain mechanic, its party of 4 and it's fast travel system ?

Seriously... I hope you understood why you were wrong about the meaning of "feeling like/looking like".
Now I'm done. Your non sense assumptions aren't interresting at all.

@Maximuuus

I entirely disagree. The powers from the tadpole, are a direct homage to the powers from Bhaalspawn. An evil entity using you(Bhaal), a new god The Absolute(Rebirth of Bhaal using his spawn as a new vessel or just taking over the throne), Having to give into the influence of the tadpole, or resist it(literally exactly what you are doing in BG I), the true souls are working together(OK so not this one, Bhaalspawn were more of a Highlander, there can be only one, getting more powerful from killing your half-siblings. However, we do see that....forgot her name, The Goblin Shaman seems to be a true soul and wants to study/kill you, so maybe it will be Highlanderesk in the later chapters.) Then who is this Absolute, its a new god, and its definitely not a benevolent one. Could this be the Bhaalspawn that ascended?

As of right now the game seems like a love-letter to Baldur's Gate I & II. It's also EA, and I'm sure they want to leave some big reveals to come as well.

As far as gameplay goes, I feel its held onto too much of the PnP style of RPGs / Original BG/NWN games. It needs to evolve that system, if we are going to truly get a rebirth of this franchise and/or successful WotC representation in the genre again.

Also as an aside, just the fact that they mentioned Elminster in a author's note inside a book you can read, sucked me back to my childhood when I played BG I. Surreal moment for me.

There are elements that hint back to how things were handled in the BG series but... It feels hamfisted in. It is not too original to do a repeat of things in a new coat (borrowing from both BG story as well as DOS stuff, the intro is a big offender there) and it feels forced. I get it is meant as a love letter to the old BG games and a homage (something that I considered a good thing and was excited for before I started playing) but... it kind of misses the mark I feel.

The impression I got with BG3 so far is that there is an attempt to make us get the Baldur's Gate 2 experience, without the Baldur's Gate 1 experience. No buildup at all, you just get thrown in what almost feels like the middle of a story, with really high stakes that I tend to associate with high level stories. (Mindflayers, dragonriders, literally one of the Hells itself). This is emphasized by the companions with their backgrounds where they are portrayed as powerful/accomplished people. This is a story that would make a good sequel, but instead we get it as the start of a story where it feels weird to be level 1. To survive the entire prologue as a new adventurer is kind of a case of dumb luck more than anything and kind of feels railroaded in a sense. To have these companions with epic backstories feels.. weird to be level 1 too.

It is a shame, because I think for me I would have enjoyed the story a LOT more personally if it indeed was a sequel/BG4. Your main character would be accomplished too at the mid-levels (assuming this would be a starting point, going by the BG1 >2 experience) and would fit in with the companions, rahter than being the random baby adventurer amongst the group of big shots (storywise at least). The setting and stakes would feel more in line what to expect from the midlevels and you had a buildup as well (if the stakes and situations are epic from the start, there is nowhere to go but up from there really, making stuff more and more ridicilous as you go on to keep the awe factor).

Even without a fantastical, epic introstory you can weave stories where you start as a fresh adventurer properly ( building up to the point where Hell travelling eldritch spaceships attacked by dragonriders is a natural porogression) that is cool and makes you feel like a hero.

I think you really nailed what I have not been able to so far : indeed, the SOUL of BG was also that :
A fresh start, meeting very basic, ordinary and simple people (kind of "realistic" !), and then, very gradually, feeling the progression and the Epic (with something close to the progression in levels)
Of course, they can't reverse that, but maybe they can introduce more "fresh simple" stuff at times in baldurs gate or villages...

And actually, they could still bring this flavor !!
You begin in a small peaceful village (or a small portion of a big city), level 1, speak with some common folks, learn the first steps, have two or three fights, maybe get 1 level...
and then, boom, you are captured by the illithids !

Interesting points you raise here about the tadpole powers and to some extent I agree but at present it is are just a theory of yours, not a fact and from my point of view I don't see the homage or love letter to the original BG games in any meaningful sense. The Bhaalspawn powers in BG2 if I remember rightly were not introduced until some way into the game (could be wrong here I admit). Maybe The Absolute is as your theory suggests but story aside, when I think of homage I can think of plenty of other things that have no link to previous BG games.

By implementing so many things that were in DOS: no day/night cycle, party chain mechanics, 4 person party, explosive surfaces, healing food, etc., it's inevitable some people feel the lack of familiarity. Clearly nobody expects a replica of a 20 year old game but I find the soul of BG is indeed missing in BG3. I understand some people will disagree with me and that is fine; these are all just opinions after all.

I read in another thread that someone described BG3 as having a feel similar to a Marvel film and that resonated with me, from a story/companions/overall tone perspective. From the crazy intro hurtling through the planes to the exceptional backstories of the majority of the companions, everything feels very extreme.

Even if I don't really understand what Seiryu Suta could disagree about what I said...

I'd also like to answer about the tadpole powers which "could be" an homage to the old games.
That's an interresting point but if that's really something supposed to be like in BG1/2... I guess we'll also have new powers for not using the tadpole...?
Because that's what happen in the old games. You have an evil route and a good route, good dreams and bad dreams.
At the moment In BG3 you have the choice between using the tadpole (evil) or nothing (good).
But it's the beginning of the EA and something like this would definitely be interresting.

On the other hand everyone knows that the stories have a link. Is that enough to make a game "feel like" or "look like" ? As many players, I don't think so.
The D/N cycle/meteo effects is another great exemple of things that could have been implemented for BG3 to "look more like".

But you're right there's not nothing.
That's not something I said.

Just a quick point of order? Can people PLEASE stop saying that dumb jokey humor doesn't "feel like DnD". Anyone that says that clearly hasn't played much pen and paper (stupid jokes are the norm). Just one well-worn example: a major setting character that has been around for decades was created because some guy thought that the name "Medium Rary" would be funny.

Even the original Baldurs Gate games had plenty of silly humour, that broke the 4th wall or poked fun at the game itself. Especially 1 had silly encounters hidden here and there on the world map. I think a main thing with why it feels strange is that it happens so much. If every other encounter is a Monty Python sketch it loses its charm quickly and makes it harder to immerse, where if it is a rare thing that happens now and then makes for a fun tongue in cheek moment. It is like all humour basically: timing is important. And balancing it with the serious parts. It might make it feel more like finding a fun easter egg (perhaps one of many) rather than feeling like you are basically in a Monty Python movie.

It fits DnD (I mean, tabletop games have plenty of it) but I think what people mind is that it becomes "too much of a good thing" in essence and it is forced on you rather than be a fun intermission within a serious story.

I guess for me it just hasn't reached that saturation point. I mean, there's definitely fewer jokes per hour than your average Marvel Movie, not that that should be anyone's standard.

This is going to depend on your group. I have usually played with people who take things more seriously, which I prefer (there is still some joking around obviously but not to the point of stupidity.)

I feel the first BG had rather too much of this stuff and this probably is part of why I couldn't really get into it. A bit of silliness is fine but too much of it irritates me and feels out of place, especially in situations that are meant to be more serious. So far BG3 seems to do a lot better about this.

@Zarna you mean you don't crack a "yo mama" joke at the first full grown red dragon you find? I'm shocked and appalled. Lol

Well I have sadism and not much empathy and in BG 3 the first one place that I really started laughing aloud and found it very funny indeed was this:
I am not in real life serial killer and lack totally empathy, but in addition I and very emphatic people do not always get along well we do not understand each other always. Generally I do not want to see people hurt in real life, but in movies and games or TV series well...

I'm starting to think Early Access should never give refunds and cost 2x the finished product across the board. Maybe that would finally get rid of all the people who buy and then bitch about an unfinished product and leave the people who actually know and want to get into an EA.

I think most people are not "bitching about an unfinished product" but moreso being dissapointed/annoyed at getting something rather different than what was promised (A game that resembles 5e closely).

If you order a medium-rare steak and you get a well done one, for the same price, you'd be rather annoyed, I figure.

An unfinished game that's mechanics will be in flux until it's out of EA. If I went to a restaurant where I could pay for all you can eat steak while they train new cooks or try out new things on the menu I would expect certain things not to be the way I want them. If you have in your mind what you wanted and won't be happy unless it's exactly that thing, you should have waited until the game was out of EA and reviewed to make sure it was that thing.

You do realize what the intent of Early Access is, right? Giving feedback what you like and don't like, so the developers can make changes before the product is finished? Something that would be too late, if you would wait until the full release of the game?

You don't get the point. If there was any feedback/indication from Larian that they indeed intend to make this an actual D&D 5e game (to a reasonable extent, of course) and the rules were just not fully implemented yet, or at least that they realize e.g. that their handling of advantage/disadvantage (not specific bugs, those will obviously be fixed along the way) in combat is currently broken, nobody would be complaining - OK, that's a lie, but no one reasonable would. The opposite is true: Larian explicitly mentioned that they tried to implemented the rules, but "it was not fun" (whatever that meant). So instead we get this weird hybrid that really doesn't work well and is insanely abusable once you figure things out. I DO like BG3 so far, but once you figure out the mechanics, the combat kinda sucks. At least once you figure out that you can basically get advantage for almost every attack and that every char should dual-wield to get attack as a bonus action, you can get through the encounters quickly.

EA is meant for exactly this kind of feedback.

Sorry if I was a bit flippant and didn't properly communicate my opinions. I agree EA is meant for constructive feedback and my original post in the thread about absolutley no refunds and 2x the price was tongue in cheek.(mostly) I just feel like a lot of the feedback seems to be very "my way or the highway" and ignores the fact that Larian did make a lot of requested changes in patch 3 and are obviously still trying to find the sweet spot for everything, as you do in EA. I also think asking for a refund the way OP is is ridiculous and at a certain point with EA you make an agreement that even if things aren't turning out how you wanted you just have to cut your losses and accept the fact that you invested in something that didn't turn out the way you expected. But we aren't even at that point with BG3 because we've only had a few patches so who knows how things are going to eventually turn out.

No need to apologize.

No bruh, no. Incorporating "different mechanics" in a system which has a mechanic for about everything, and a loyal following of fanatical fans, to make those who have no F-ing clue what D&D is feel included or placated..is how you make a watered down, unrecognizable turd that your CORE audience denounces. BG, Icewind, NWN..all commercially successful titles and they didn't pepper in BS mechanics that don exist in the ruleset to make it palatable for D&D ignoramuses. So I respectfully disagree with your logic. That logic is what keeps EA turning out slightly rearranged turds every year and people keep buying them.

I have about 15 hours play time logged...and didn't even realize food heals. Know why? Because as a former D&Der, it never freaking crossed my mind. Figured it was included for realism and RPG value. How stupid to be able to stuff your face with cheap food during a fight to stay alive. Smh.

The jumping abuse I also hadn't noticed yet. Thought it clever for making the world more 3D.

Been waiting 20 years for another BG...please don't screw it up Devs...I'm begging ya.

This is so true. I never played a Larian game until now (mainly because of the reputation of silliness in DOS) so I didn’t realize how silly their combat mechanics are. I didn’t know about food, jump disengage, barrelmancy and backstab advantage until I read the forums. I knew about height advantage because I watched a dev video. As a fan of D&D, I never dreamed anyone would break the rules so much in a D&D computer game.

It’s heartening that I am not alone that totaly despises current combat meta game.
I have little hope however that it will change to a at least decent state. All the content being made right now is vbased upon this combat style. Change combat too drastic would mean they had to rework all encounters.

That why I asked for a chance to simply skip combat. So dont have to endure this and instead can focus on the story.