Larian Studios
Posted By: mr_planescapist BG3 current situation - 26/12/20 01:59 PM
So what is the current consensus on the game? Living up to the hype?
Have all the BG1/BG2 D^D fans left for Solasta?
My feelings are that the VERY cinematic nature of BG3 is hurting/slowing its development (clumsy/cringy dialogues, tons of dialogue graphic bugs,lacking atmosphere...) while Solasta is powering on update after update fleshing out the world and its system in a very convincing manner. Yea the dialogues aren't amazing <AAA> stuff, but the game inst completely relying on them like in BG3. The game-play is already super solid. Can the same be said for BG3?
Posted By: fallenj Re: BG3 current situation - 26/12/20 02:31 PM
So another Solasta thread, amazing...
Posted By: Icelyn Re: BG3 current situation - 26/12/20 03:27 PM
I love the game so far! It is living up to the hype for me. smile I like the cinematic presentation. I think they should take however long they need to make the game and not rush it.
Posted By: fylimar Re: BG3 current situation - 26/12/20 04:11 PM
I love the game too. I don't know about hype, since there was a lot, I didn't like in BG and BG2 too, but I feel entertained.
Posted By: Tequilaman Re: BG3 current situation - 26/12/20 04:24 PM
Have they fixed mages being able to learn cleric spells?

Or jumping everywhere as a bonus action to disengage?

Or giving thieves an extra bonus action to attack with, making them attack better with dual wielding than a ranger or fighter.

These and a few more are pet peeves of mine, which is not just from a D&D standpoint, but from a "it doesn't make sense in any RPG" standpoint and I won't go back to the game unless they fix it.
Posted By: Llev Re: BG3 current situation - 26/12/20 04:30 PM
I guess i agree with the OP... too much pretty... not enough crunchy... for me personally, well laid out (d&d)mechanics more directly correlates to replayability... and thats certainly not to say i dont like the look of the game, its pretty amazing!

My biggest hope is they fix the crunchy(mechanics) bits like jump/disengage and dont add too many of their own made up items that are well out of level appropriateness... still great potential... aim small/miss small... ;D
Posted By: biomag Re: BG3 current situation - 26/12/20 05:33 PM
Overall I think its a game that will be successful and rightfully so. Art is good. I expect cinematics to be fine as well once they get to the polishing stage - and origin characters replace the custom character in cinematics. Other kinks will probably fixed along the way, at least I don't see anyhting major that could affect the game's mass market success. It's a game that will resonate with the DOS crowd I guess even though there are D&D mechanics in there.


Now for me personally the game is a disappointment after the first couple of hours of hype.
D&D is in there, but there is a lot of Larianism at the core of the game design that broke completely the action economy of 5e. Yeah, it might work for those who don't care for D&D 5e, but to me its absolutely no improvement, I have the same feeling I had playing DOS2 and I loathed combat there.

Map and origin characters are another 2 points coming from DOS2 and I don't like either of them and the influence they have.

Encounter design - as a result from how they make maps and combat - I'm not impressed, I really think its poorly designed and heavily encourages metagaming.

Story and companions so far have not connected with me, but it might be a matter of time and just companions available.

Overall it has a tremendously gamey feeling, not at all reminding me of BG-styled games, but a lot more of DOS2. The game never fails to remind me its a game and you can exploit it - because actually they want you to as they have added so many things that you can exploit to be 'creative' with the result that you always are better off using Larian's ideas than sticking to D&D 5e options.



But this is personal taste. As I said before, I think this will be a critically acclaimed and well selling game. I doubt though that for the majority of BG-fans its what they are looking for and I don't think people who want a good D&D 5e experience in their game will be satisfied either. Might be Larian makes more concessions to them, but so far reducing fire seems the biggest one after messing up the balance completely.
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: BG3 current situation - 26/12/20 05:54 PM
According to me it's the same now than it was at the beginning : BG3 show me a huge potential but there are MANY things to change and rework.

At the moment it's probably a good Larian game but it's not a good D&D game, it's not a good BG game and it's not a good tactical TB game.

Guess what : I don't care playing a good Larian game.

Better Control/ increased party size/ more and better companions - banter/ less WTF items/better implementation of D&D rules and less cheesy custom rules/ less flashy visual effects / more BG UI-travel-rest system and ressource management is several points I'm really waiting for to say I really like the game.

At the moment it's just fun a few hours... Not a part of the legend.
Posted By: Veilburner Re: BG3 current situation - 26/12/20 06:00 PM
Loving the game so far. Loving the game a lot more than the early access version of Cyberpunk 2077 that's for sure.
Posted By: KillerRabbit Re: BG3 current situation - 26/12/20 06:19 PM
Competition is good.

At present Bg3 is prettier and Solasta has the better interpretation of the rules. Hopefully the end result will be a Solasta that's more BG3 like and BG3 that's more Solasta like.

With Patch 3 Larian showed they are willing to respond to feedback and that's a good thing. And I don't know if the recent hotfix allowing 6 member parties is actually a bug or test balloon. So, reasons to be optimistic.
Posted By: Ixal Re: BG3 current situation - 26/12/20 06:20 PM
Too much Larian DOS gameplay and "everything is special and over the top" storytelling, not enough D&D.
For me BG3 is a failure as I doubt Larian will remove the DOS content from the game.
Posted By: spectralhunter Re: BG3 current situation - 26/12/20 06:28 PM
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Competition is good.

At present Bg3 is prettier and Solasta has the better interpretation of the rules. Hopefully the end result will be a Solasta that's more BG3 like and BG3 that's more Solasta like.

Well said.
Posted By: Drath Malorn Re: BG3 current situation - 26/12/20 09:03 PM
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Competition is good.

At present Bg3 is prettier and Solasta has the better interpretation of the rules. Hopefully the end result will be a Solasta that's more BG3 like and BG3 that's more Solasta like.

Fully agreed.

In addition, each game should have their priorities, and be good at meeting those. Interestingly, back in the days, Baldur's Gate had the better story and roleplay. Icewind Dale was the better dungeon crawler. There isn't a one-to-one correspondance with Baldur's Gate 3 and Solasta today, but both games don't aim for the same goal.

They don't exactly have equivalent positions though.

I don't think Tactical Adventures can do much to make Solasta prettier, given the constraints of a smaller team and smaller budget. I suppose that things like dialogues, avoiding combat, and perhaps multiple resolutions for quests (and possible permutations) are more within reach though. Larian Studios has a much bigger capacity, and the good ideas they could perhaps take from Solasta are not the more expensive ones, like video quality, but the cheaper ones, like adapting the 5E rules in video game form, etc. I'm giving these examples without having tried Solasta, it's more generic/theoretical examples.

So Larian has the better means to act on the good ideas of Tactical Adventures. But regardless, it is true that each studio can reap some benefits from the other having EA at the same time. Basically, they can gather feedback on some ideas without having to code them, provided that the other studio is trying them out.

I don't know if the fact that the audience is likely to overlap strongly is a helping factor. But I hope that most devs on both studios are playing the EA of the other on their work hours.
Posted By: Topper Re: BG3 current situation - 26/12/20 09:29 PM
Love it. Just going to get better. It has issues but they will be addressed/fixed/whatever.
Posted By: Terminator2020 Re: BG3 current situation - 26/12/20 10:06 PM
"Have all the BG1/BG2 D^D fans left for Solasta?"

I must say developers of Solasta could at one point do little marketing this is the first time ever that I have heard about Solasta. Because Solasta is Dungeons and Dragons (5th edition whatever) I am interested in it for sure.

I think it is a difficult to judge because they are not fully released yet. I think Solasta could add even more classes even with the ones know I know about example no Druid yet in plans even.

As for this BG3 vs Solasta I am neutral to it and want to play them both and since I have not played Solasta it is difficult for me to compare.
Posted By: Kokonut Re: BG3 current situation - 26/12/20 10:19 PM
Love it so far. I play DnD by myself and I think they found a good (but not perfect) way to merge the tabletop style with a video game. Still some stuff needs to improve like the already mentioned metagaming and cheesing, the balance and of course the bugs.
But it gives me already quite a good DnD feeling. And by the way, metagaming also happens in the tabletop version...
The characters and story so far I really enjoy.
Posted By: Ixal Re: BG3 current situation - 26/12/20 11:22 PM
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Competition is good.

I don't think there will be much competition the way things are currently progressing.
The ones who want Original Sin 3 will play BG3, the ones who want a D&D video game play Solasta and the people who want a Baldurs Gate successor will play Pathfinders Wrath of the Righteous.
Posted By: Kadajko Re: BG3 current situation - 27/12/20 01:58 AM
Originally Posted by Ixal
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Competition is good.

I don't think there will be much competition the way things are currently progressing.
The ones who want Original Sin 3 will play BG3, the ones who want a D&D video game play Solasta and the people who want a Baldurs Gate successor will play Pathfinders Wrath of the Righteous.

And I will play and enjoy all three instead of comparing them and deciding which one is better.
Posted By: Tarorn Re: BG3 current situation - 27/12/20 03:36 AM
It certainly is a matter of opinion - 99.3 hours in and this game is excellent & only getting better - has the potential to be the best D&D game.
Like Kadajko I’ll enjoy them all eventually but if BG3 continues it’s current path plus responds to feedback then I’ll be playing it for a very long time.
Yes I hope Larian is watching the Cyberpunk fall from grace and continue to do there own thing - you can’t please everyone.
I don’t get why so many critics can’t just like the fact that there are potentially 3 great D&D games on the horizon and just be glad about it.
Posted By: VeronicaTash Re: BG3 current situation - 27/12/20 03:41 AM
I bought the game because of BG1 and BG2. I love the dialogue because it gives an immersive roleplaying situation which is difficult to pull off. I have issues with the narrow layout of the map here and wish they didn't use 5e, but the way you contrasted Solasta made it seem quite unappealing - it lacks that roleplaying atmosphere.
Posted By: DarkRob316 Re: BG3 current situation - 27/12/20 04:12 AM
I have both games and to me its not even a contest. Solasta plays like an indie mobile phone game. Its ok for what it is, Im by no means hating on it.
Baldurs Gate 3 feels like a major AAA title. It looks beautiful, has an engaging storyline and interesting characters.

Mechanically Baldurs Gate 3 feels more intuitive. The UI is smoother and easier to grasp. The targeting is way better. On ranged targets BG3 will tell you if your target is blocked. If Solasta does this as well, I have yet to find it. But Il also admit I have hundreds of hours more invested in BG3 than Solasta.

But I suppose thats because BG3 grabbed me and Solasta really hasnt.

Ive heard Solasta is more true to D&D 5th edition. Thats cool, I dont really care. To me BG3 is far and away the better game.
Posted By: spectralhunter Re: BG3 current situation - 27/12/20 05:25 AM
Originally Posted by DarkRob316
I have both games and to me its not even a contest. Solasta plays like an indie mobile phone game. Its ok for what it is, Im by no means hating on it.
Baldurs Gate 3 feels like a major AAA title. It looks beautiful, has an engaging storyline and interesting characters.

Mechanically Baldurs Gate 3 feels more intuitive. The UI is smoother and easier to grasp. The targeting is way better. On ranged targets BG3 will tell you if your target is blocked. If Solasta does this as well, I have yet to find it. But Il also admit I have hundreds of hours more invested in BG3 than Solasta.

But I suppose thats because BG3 grabbed me and Solasta really hasnt.

Ive heard Solasta is more true to D&D 5th edition. Thats cool, I dont really care. To me BG3 is far and away the better game.

No doubt BG3 is well polished and slick. They should with the size of their staff and the millions of dollars in resources. Solasta is bare bones.

Whether you like the UI and combat on both games is really determined by what you are familiar with. If you know 5E well, Solasta is better. Even the UI is better because it is intuitive to someone who knows how combat works in 5E. On the contrary, if you played DOS and not too familiar with 5E, I'm sure BG3 feels much more intuitive because it's set up similar to other CRPGs. And Solasta, when you are ready to attack, the system clearly shows what mobs are open for attack by drawing lines to your character. All the mobs. I've actually missed a few times in BG3 because I didn't have the cursor exactly on the monster because in BG3 you can target the ground next to the monster.

And by admitting you don't care about 5E is obvious why you like BG3 more. You want a graphically beautiful game with detailed characters and a compelling story (hopefully). That's where BG3 shines compared to Solasta; you're right it's not even close in this regard. Your opinion is perfectly acceptable and logical.

But I think Solasta is mechanically more sound but without the huge financial backing it will never look as beautiful as BG3.
Posted By: VeronicaTash Re: BG3 current situation - 27/12/20 05:50 AM
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
No doubt BG3 is well polished and slick. They should with the size of their staff and the millions of dollars in resources. Solasta is bare bones.

Whether you like the UI and combat on both games is really determined by what you are familiar with. If you know 5E well, Solasta is better. Even the UI is better because it is intuitive to someone who knows how combat works in 5E. On the contrary, if you played DOS and not too familiar with 5E, I'm sure BG3 feels much more intuitive because it's set up similar to other CRPGs. And Solasta, when you are ready to attack, the system clearly shows what mobs are open for attack by drawing lines to your character. All the mobs. I've actually missed a few times in BG3 because I didn't have the cursor exactly on the monster because in BG3 you can target the ground next to the monster.

And by admitting you don't care about 5E is obvious why you like BG3 more. You want a graphically beautiful game with detailed characters and a compelling story (hopefully). That's where BG3 shines compared to Solasta; you're right it's not even close in this regard. Your opinion is perfectly acceptable and logical.

But I think Solasta is mechanically more sound but without the huge financial backing it will never look as beautiful as BG3.

Myself, to butt in here, I find 5e to be dumbed down and overly simplistic - 3.5e has the details I'm looking for. People who care about rules but with disdain for 5e - probably also agree that the careful attention to detail are also not too important.

The gameplay preview on Solasta is doesn't seem too impressive to me - because I'm looking at a game where there are long, narrow pathways that somehow popped up in a graveyard? I'm thinking they just mastered the rules and didn't care about providing an actual game from seeing that. That seems more restrictive than BG3s web of paths.
Posted By: spectralhunter Re: BG3 current situation - 27/12/20 06:02 AM
Originally Posted by VeronicaTash
Myself, to butt in here, I find 5e to be dumbed down and overly simplistic - 3.5e has the details I'm looking for. People who care about rules but with disdain for 5e - probably also agree that the careful attention to detail are also not too important.

The gameplay preview on Solasta is doesn't seem too impressive to me - because I'm looking at a game where there are long, narrow pathways that somehow popped up in a graveyard? I'm thinking they just mastered the rules and didn't care about providing an actual game from seeing that. That seems more restrictive than BG3s web of paths.

Right, a lot of discussion here is personal opinion. I like 3.5 but its a bit bloated rule-wise. You like it. I like 5E better.

Solasta is definitely more restrictive in how you approach a situation. It is more linear. But Solasta is much more faithful to the 5E ruleset and the combat is much more balanced. If you want a game that emulates 5E more, Solasta is better. And we are comparing two radically different sized studios. Larian has hundreds of employees. Solasta I think is being developed by 17. The level of polish shows. If Solasta had hundreds and millions in the bank? Who knows what they could have made?
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: BG3 current situation - 27/12/20 07:17 AM
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by VeronicaTash
Myself, to butt in here, I find 5e to be dumbed down and overly simplistic - 3.5e has the details I'm looking for. People who care about rules but with disdain for 5e - probably also agree that the careful attention to detail are also not too important.

The gameplay preview on Solasta is doesn't seem too impressive to me - because I'm looking at a game where there are long, narrow pathways that somehow popped up in a graveyard? I'm thinking they just mastered the rules and didn't care about providing an actual game from seeing that. That seems more restrictive than BG3s web of paths.

Right, a lot of discussion here is personal opinion. I like 3.5 but its a bit bloated rule-wise. You like it. I like 5E better.

Solasta is definitely more restrictive in how you approach a situation. It is more linear. But Solasta is much more faithful to the 5E ruleset and the combat is much more balanced. If you want a game that emulates 5E more, Solasta is better. And we are comparing two radically different sized studios. Larian has hundreds of employees. Solasta I think is being developed by 17. The level of polish shows. If Solasta had hundreds and millions in the bank? Who knows what they could have made?

I guess they could have made a true modern AAA D&D5 game smile
Posted By: DarkRob316 Re: BG3 current situation - 27/12/20 07:33 AM
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by DarkRob316
I have both games and to me its not even a contest. Solasta plays like an indie mobile phone game. Its ok for what it is, Im by no means hating on it.
Baldurs Gate 3 feels like a major AAA title. It looks beautiful, has an engaging storyline and interesting characters.

Mechanically Baldurs Gate 3 feels more intuitive. The UI is smoother and easier to grasp. The targeting is way better. On ranged targets BG3 will tell you if your target is blocked. If Solasta does this as well, I have yet to find it. But Il also admit I have hundreds of hours more invested in BG3 than Solasta.

But I suppose thats because BG3 grabbed me and Solasta really hasnt.

Ive heard Solasta is more true to D&D 5th edition. Thats cool, I dont really care. To me BG3 is far and away the better game.

No doubt BG3 is well polished and slick. They should with the size of their staff and the millions of dollars in resources. Solasta is bare bones.

Whether you like the UI and combat on both games is really determined by what you are familiar with. If you know 5E well, Solasta is better. Even the UI is better because it is intuitive to someone who knows how combat works in 5E. On the contrary, if you played DOS and not too familiar with 5E, I'm sure BG3 feels much more intuitive because it's set up similar to other CRPGs. And Solasta, when you are ready to attack, the system clearly shows what mobs are open for attack by drawing lines to your character. All the mobs. I've actually missed a few times in BG3 because I didn't have the cursor exactly on the monster because in BG3 you can target the ground next to the monster.

And by admitting you don't care about 5E is obvious why you like BG3 more. You want a graphically beautiful game with detailed characters and a compelling story (hopefully). That's where BG3 shines compared to Solasta; you're right it's not even close in this regard. Your opinion is perfectly acceptable and logical.

But I think Solasta is mechanically more sound but without the huge financial backing it will never look as beautiful as BG3.

Sorry to go off topic here, but I can't pass up the opportunity. You mentioned the lines from source to target in Solasta and I thought they might have something to do with targeting and being able to determine if line of sight is true or false, but I haven't been able to really decipher it.

Could you elaborate on how they work? It might help me gain a better understanding of it.
Like how do the lines appear if line of sight is true, and how do they appear if line of sight is false?

I do want to like Solasta, Ive just found it harder to decipher the visual cues in it compared with BG3.
Posted By: Human Re: BG3 current situation - 27/12/20 07:40 AM
Right now:
"If Solasta had hundreds and millions in the bank? Who knows what they could have made?"

Before:
"If Larian had hundreds and millions in the bank? Who knows what they could have made?"

Future:
"If [name any studio] had hundreds and millions in the bank? Who knows what they could have made?"

keep repeating this cycle
Posted By: Samshell Re: BG3 current situation - 27/12/20 07:50 AM
Competition only brings good things to customers, and we are really fortunate to be having both of these great games at the same time
Posted By: Baldurs-Gate-Fan Re: BG3 current situation - 27/12/20 07:58 AM
The game isn’t outright bad. It’s just that larian don’t thrusts the whole DnD system and insists getting divinity stuff into it.


Granted that 5e is a highly simplified edition that is boring on character progression doesn’t help the game either.
There is not a single good 5e computer game on the market yet and larian wants to change that by merging divinity with DnD.

Horrible idea but this course is set in stone it seems after 3 patches. They will NOT rethink their design but instead throw candys like „toned down environment effects“ to quell the anger. But it won’t be a cure for the core sickness bg3 is suffering from.
Posted By: Human Re: BG3 current situation - 27/12/20 08:08 AM
BG3 is a good game and it keeps getting better and better, it just needs some tweaks right and left which is the point of having it in EA.
Solasta is better game for those who want more faithful 5e combat system
Posted By: T2aV Re: BG3 current situation - 27/12/20 08:49 AM
player 150hrs of bg3, 1hr of solasta..
Posted By: Sordak Re: BG3 current situation - 27/12/20 09:10 AM
lets see how solasta compares to original sin 1 then.
id wager that the game with the thought through system (os1) will do better then the one that autistically sticks to one of the worst tabletop DnD versions
Posted By: Kokonut Re: BG3 current situation - 27/12/20 09:17 AM
If you want something more true to 3 DnD 3.5 try Pathfinder: Kingmaker. Its also much more similar to BG2 than BG3 is at the moment.
Posted By: biomag Re: BG3 current situation - 27/12/20 09:23 AM
Originally Posted by Sordak
lets see how solasta compares to original sin 1 then.
id wager that the game with the thought through system (os1) will do better then the one that autistically sticks to one of the worst tabletop DnD versions

Original Sin 1 was Larian's 6th game, with a 950k kickstarter compared to Solasta's 243k.


Not defending Solasta here, I don't have it and I don't think the gameplay suits me (sounds too much like a dungon crawler. But if they implemented 5e combat properly they are definitely light years ahead in my book than BG3 that's among the worst balanced things I've seen. By the way I enjoyed DOS1 far more than DOS2 (when all those surfaces just went from novelty to annoying) and BG3.
Posted By: Black_Elk Re: BG3 current situation - 27/12/20 09:26 AM
My impression honestly hasn't changed all that much since the first week of the EA. The stuff they've patched in so far just hasn't been noticeable enough for me to "see" the difference so its a bit of a retread right now. Maybe the next patch will be more substantial and I'll get excited again.

One thing that's very hard to miss, is just how similar the banner and promo art for BG3 looks to their DOS2 art. I'm tired of seeing these same 5 Origin faces over and over again in literally all the splash art. It makes this feel like a game that's supposed to be about those specific Origin characters, without much in the way of broadening our horizons or playing to the "Who are You?"/choose-your-own-adventure vibe I associate with baldur's gate.

They want a Drew Struzan poster they can show off, I get it. Because right now its like a blockbuster film staring those 5 Origin characters and my PC isn't really involved. The artwork itself is cool, but that approach feels out of place for a BG game. It makes it look like a Marvel crossover comic or something. It's like if BG1 just had Imoen, Misc, Jaheira, Viconia and Edwin plastered all over the place, montaged in front of a giant ominous Sarevok. On the box cover, in the load screens, everywhere. Inverted, then used again, with close up details, or grouped together, but still using the same art.

I also wish they would use the Forgotten Realms and Dungeons & Dragons logos more prominently (I could care less about WotC) but those two actually feel like a part of the game's dna, and something that should be rep'd a bit harder just for the feels. I don't know who's on the art direction, but I think it needs to distinguish itself from their other IP instead of looking so much like the next chapter in Divinity. Not exactly the question being posed, but I think it does play a part somehow in my impression so far.

How much would it cost Larian to get the rights to re-republish some of the classic D&D fantasy art from the backcatalouge in these load screens?

I mean how cool would it be to load the game and suddenly see Elmore, or Trampier, or Parkinson, or Easely, or Brom flash up for half a minute? That would have been so badass! Just cut a deal for all the back issues of Dragon Magazine or something killer that pays proper homage to the legacy. Maybe that's too much nostaliga. But still the idea of a broader showcase, that is less about the 5 stars and more about the universe itself. Or how about more monsters (other than the Imp ), or some heroes we might never meet but who still look like champs hehe. For the illustrators and concept artists still coming up in the D&D circuit, or the ones specifically on their team already, who have sketchbooks with random heroes and creatures and weapons... why not let the load screens be the spot to show some stuff off? I just think it would be way cooler than reusing the same stuff over and over.
Posted By: adkfina Re: BG3 current situation - 27/12/20 12:20 PM
It's a good game so far, but nothing brilliant or new. It treads old ground but does it well, that's all.

As for Solasta, it sound like a brand of cough medicine
Posted By: fylimar Re: BG3 current situation - 27/12/20 12:26 PM
Why should it be one or the other? If you like those kind of games, chances are, that you will play both.
I'm always on a lookout for good rpgs.
Posted By: VeronicaTash Re: BG3 current situation - 27/12/20 03:50 PM
Originally Posted by adkfina
It's a good game so far, but nothing brilliant or new. It treads old ground but does it well, that's all.

As for Solasta, it sound like a brand of cough medicine

It sounds much more like an allergy medication or maybe an anti-depressant.
Posted By: Danielbda Re: BG3 current situation - 27/12/20 04:54 PM
Larian should take the "Solasta has better combat" thing into consideration. 5e D&D combat is more suited for a D&D game than this DOS mashup that is still the most criticized aspect of the game.
Posted By: Anfindel Re: BG3 current situation - 27/12/20 06:20 PM
Originally Posted by Kadajko
Originally Posted by Ixal
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Competition is good.

I don't think there will be much competition the way things are currently progressing.
The ones who want Original Sin 3 will play BG3, the ones who want a D&D video game play Solasta and the people who want a Baldurs Gate successor will play Pathfinders Wrath of the Righteous.

And I will play and enjoy all three instead of comparing them and deciding which one is better.

This here. From what I have seen this far in the way each is developing, I will end up playing all three, and enjoying the different aspects of game play each brings to the table.

So far, Solasta provides nice bite size bits I can grab when I have an hour or two to play a couple of battles and progress a bit, while BG3 is for when I have a full afternoon or evening free to jump in for several hours. Pathfinder is somewhat of a cross between the two, with a city builder aspect added in for a change of pace. Witcher still fills my need for a first person, solo character build and PoE (regardless of the crap tossed at it here) presents a satisfying BG2 type game, with it's own well-developed world. Different strokes for different folks and all that.
Posted By: spectralhunter Re: BG3 current situation - 27/12/20 08:10 PM
Originally Posted by DarkRob316
Could you elaborate on how they work? It might help me gain a better understanding of it.
Like how do the lines appear if line of sight is true, and how do they appear if line of sight is false?

I do want to like Solasta, Ive just found it harder to decipher the visual cues in it compared with BG3.

Connecting white lines in Solasta represents line of sight. If you don't have LoS, then the line is either broken or red from my experience.
Posted By: spectralhunter Re: BG3 current situation - 27/12/20 08:15 PM
Originally Posted by Danielbda
Larian should take the "Solasta has better combat" thing into consideration. 5e D&D combat is more suited for a D&D game than this DOS mashup that is still the most criticized aspect of the game.

This is my only real complaint with BG3. Everything else, like what type of companions, I can tolerate. I actually don't mind the current ones too much. I'd just like the ability to customize their stats to suit my needs. I just want the DOS inspired combat either removed or toned down is all.

I mean, some changes, like the ranger is actually pretty good.
Posted By: Worm Re: BG3 current situation - 27/12/20 08:25 PM
Originally Posted by fallenj
So another Solasta thread, amazing...
For a fanbase that presumably loves choice and consequences they certainly seem to do the same thing over and over.
Posted By: Talyn82 Re: BG3 current situation - 27/12/20 08:27 PM
I've only been playing for the past 2 days and so far I am enjoying. I finally got to the first village and am going to take my time talking to everyone. Aside from some bugs and glitches which is to be expected the game looks very promising. I never heard of Solasta but if it's dnd I'll check it out eventually.
Posted By: Danielbda Re: BG3 current situation - 27/12/20 11:13 PM
Originally Posted by Worm
Originally Posted by fallenj
So another Solasta thread, amazing...
For a fanbase that presumably loves choice and consequences they certainly seem to do the same thing over and over.
The fanbase also loves good combat.
Posted By: A_va Re: BG3 current situation - 28/12/20 04:09 AM
From someone that has never played BG 1 & 2, Divinity, Dragon Age or whichever other game I saw people linking BG3 to, this game feels absolutely fantastic and promising. It's EA, of course, so there's always room for improvement but I gotta admit I haven't been this hooked in a video game since The Witcher 3. I'm really enjoying the writing and direction the story is going so far. Oh, and the characters - I haven't been this interested in fictional characters since I was what? 16? I love this feeling of hype. Not to be cheesy with 'omg this cured my depression' but damn I missed feeling this excited about anything.

My only complaints are about things that will probably be optimized or fixed in the full launch, such as failing a hit at 96% or enemies shooting through walls. I honestly like the cinematic aspect of the game; it's immersive. It's probably one of the reasons I'm so hooked.
Posted By: Rieline Re: BG3 current situation - 28/12/20 02:13 PM
Solasta may be faithful to the 5th ed rules but there is nothing there aside stats and numbers. The plot is basically generic half baked it is clear is not the focus of the game the graphic is cartoonish and everything moves in a grid that provide the ambients to feel too much geometric constructed.

Baldur's gate 3 all it need is be more faithful the the 5th edition rules to then become perfect.
Posted By: Terminator2020 Re: BG3 current situation - 28/12/20 02:18 PM
Originally Posted by Rieline
Solasta may be faithful to the 5th ed rules but there is nothing there aside stats and numbers. The plot is basically generic half baked it is clear is not the focus of the game the graphic is cartoonish and everything moves in a grid that provide the ambients to feel too much geometric constructed.

Baldur's gate 3 all it need is be more faithful the the 5th edition rules to then become perfect.
In adition please add more stuff... I think they said all PHB Domains for Cleric would be included and so far 3/7 domains from PHB is done. Right now I have a Light Domain Cleric. That said I want to create a Tempus domain Cleric.
Posted By: Capt.Wells Re: BG3 current situation - 28/12/20 03:43 PM
I knew the name of Baldur's Gate only by reputation having previously played other types of rpgs only on consoles, but I was intrigued by the franchise reputation and the ciematics that were released for this game.

I do like the game a lot and see the potential for many hours of play, particularly when more the game world eventually gets opened up, but the turn based mechanic has been a steep learning curve for me. Plus, adjusting to ongoing early access stuff like glitches and bugs is very peculiar to wade through, however beyond that the patches seem to break about as much as the things that they purport to correct? And that is vexing in the extreme!
Posted By: DarkRob316 Re: BG3 current situation - 28/12/20 07:16 PM
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by DarkRob316
Could you elaborate on how they work? It might help me gain a better understanding of it.
Like how do the lines appear if line of sight is true, and how do they appear if line of sight is false?

I do want to like Solasta, Ive just found it harder to decipher the visual cues in it compared with BG3.

Connecting white lines in Solasta represents line of sight. If you don't have LoS, then the line is either broken or red from my experience.

Thank you. This seems to be how it works to me as well, now that I know what to look for. It's helping me enjoy the game alot more now.
Posted By: Khultak Re: BG3 current situation - 29/12/20 07:20 AM
Pay attention to the target info rectangle as well, because it will tell you the modifiers on your attack roll, such as half or 3/4 cover. Your cursor will also give you the basic info of whether you have advantage or not(green plus or red minus). Generally speaking I never really needed the line of sight lines because your cursor will give you the info if you hover over a target. If you have LOS it will show up as a sword or a bow depending on ranged or not, or it will show an x next to the weapon cursor if you don't and tell you why.


I recently bought Solasta because of all the posts I read on here. I'm quite happy that I did. The comments are not wrong about it. Solasta is a custom skin on the 5e framework, races, classes, customization are based on the world of Solasta, but the core mechanics are true to 5e. In turn Larian has made a gorgeous 5e skin with BG3 and wrapped it over a crippled DOS framework. The artwork is more polished, the story is right out of the forgotten realms, and the classes, subs, races, customization options etc are right out of 5e, but the whole thing is on a broken gameplay system that makes combat either obscenely difficult or trivial to the point of boredom. I really encourage people to give Solasta a try, despite the fact that it lacks the polish as well as class/race/multi-classing, etc.. I had a much more enjoyable time playing it than I ever did playing BG3. I want BG3 to succeed, I mean I paid for it, but right now if I had to chose based on fun I'd take Solasta.
Posted By: Vallis Re: BG3 current situation - 30/12/20 04:44 AM
For me? yes. In a year of RPGS that promised to be well.......rpgs (ahem Cyberpunk), atleast one is living up to the promise.
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: BG3 current situation - 30/12/20 11:51 AM
Originally Posted by Vallis
For me? yes. In a year of RPGS that promised to be well.......rpgs (ahem Cyberpunk), atleast one is living up to the promise.

At the moment BG3 is not living up its promises according to me (D&D game, BG game).

Or maybe I'm wrong and the promeses were just "a bit of D&D and BG's name".
Posted By: Nyloth Re: BG3 current situation - 30/12/20 12:36 PM
Solasta's design is just awful, meh.
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: BG3 current situation - 30/12/20 01:07 PM
Originally Posted by Nyloth
Solasta's design is just awful, meh.

Solasta's devs are 17.
Stay focus, the comparison between the games is usualy related to combats.

BG3 is more beautifull, has a more interresting and depth story, better animation and visual effects, the full D&D5 licence for classes and subclasses, the FR etc... But combats in Solasta are way more D&D and strategic.

(And Solasta's UI is better, both for newcomers and old players + you have a better feeling of D&D campaign than in BG3)
Posted By: fallenj Re: BG3 current situation - 30/12/20 03:37 PM
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Solasta's UI is better
Solasta's UI is ugly grey & blocky, generally takes up to much of the screen. The best thing Sol has IMO would be the adventure log.
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: BG3 current situation - 30/12/20 04:25 PM
Originally Posted by fallenj
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Solasta's UI is better
Solasta's UI is ugly grey & blocky, generally takes up to much of the screen. The best thing Sol has IMO would be the adventure log.

Solasta's UI is WAY more intuitive and way more easy to understand whatever you like the colors or not.
This UI helps players to understand the game and it's rules.
Keep in mind that UI is not only what you see in combats. Every windows and tabs are a part of the UI.

You don't like the colors ? Neither am I.
The main utility of a UI is not to be beautifull.

About the size I'm not sure solasta's UI is bigger, but anyway de don't care, that's still not the point.
Posted By: fallenj Re: BG3 current situation - 30/12/20 05:03 PM
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by fallenj
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Solasta's UI is better
Solasta's UI is ugly grey & blocky, generally takes up to much of the screen. The best thing Sol has IMO would be the adventure log.

Solasta's UI is WAY more intuitive and way more easy to understand whatever you like the colors or not.
This UI helps players to understand the game and it's rules.
Keep in mind that UI is not only what you see in combats. Every windows and tabs are a part of the UI.

You don't like the colors ? Neither am I.
The main utility of a UI is not to be beautifull.

About the size I'm not sure solasta's UI is bigger, but anyway de don't care, that's still not the point.

It's dumb easy to understand cause its made like a mobile game.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
Posted By: Danielbda Re: BG3 current situation - 30/12/20 05:27 PM
Originally Posted by fallenj
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by fallenj
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Solasta's UI is better
Solasta's UI is ugly grey & blocky, generally takes up to much of the screen. The best thing Sol has IMO would be the adventure log.

Solasta's UI is WAY more intuitive and way more easy to understand whatever you like the colors or not.
This UI helps players to understand the game and it's rules.
Keep in mind that UI is not only what you see in combats. Every windows and tabs are a part of the UI.

You don't like the colors ? Neither am I.
The main utility of a UI is not to be beautifull.

About the size I'm not sure solasta's UI is bigger, but anyway de don't care, that's still not the point.

It's dumb easy to understand cause its made like a mobile game.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
Well as response to that BG3's UI not only is harder to understand and displays less information but is also reminiscent of DOS2.
Posted By: spectralhunter Re: BG3 current situation - 30/12/20 05:29 PM
I agree the grid system is limiting. Even with my criticism of BG3, I like how I can move fairly freely.

But Solasta’s UI is better because it guides you through your choices in a turn. How spells are organized are also better. BG3 is like your typical MMO and it’s a mess.
Posted By: fallenj Re: BG3 current situation - 30/12/20 06:08 PM
Originally Posted by Danielbda
Well as response to that BG3's UI not only is harder to understand and displays less information but is also reminiscent of DOS2.

Really doubt the ui is going to be the same at launch.
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: BG3 current situation - 30/12/20 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by fallenj
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by fallenj
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Solasta's UI is better
Solasta's UI is ugly grey & blocky, generally takes up to much of the screen. The best thing Sol has IMO would be the adventure log.

Solasta's UI is WAY more intuitive and way more easy to understand whatever you like the colors or not.
This UI helps players to understand the game and it's rules.
Keep in mind that UI is not only what you see in combats. Every windows and tabs are a part of the UI.

You don't like the colors ? Neither am I.
The main utility of a UI is not to be beautifull.

About the size I'm not sure solasta's UI is bigger, but anyway de don't care, that's still not the point.

It's dumb easy to understand cause its made like a mobile game.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

Oh yeah that's so much better and easier to understand...

Intellectual dishonnesty wink

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
Posted By: fallenj Re: BG3 current situation - 30/12/20 11:37 PM
Look at the ui and tell me how many things are on their, compared to the other picture. Combat log is stretched out for more info that can be closed btw. you have potions, scrolls, etc that can be thrown in a bag and tossed on the action bar to clear it up. You have 26 characters in that battle, Imagine what the ui would look like with big grey blocks, probably super fantastic right?
Posted By: Nyloth Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 03:58 AM
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Oh yeah that's so much better and easier to understand...

Intellectual dishonnesty wink

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

You ask me if it looks better? Yes, it looks better. + as fallenj already said, you can close and clear a lot of things if you find it "cumbersome".
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 06:53 AM
Originally Posted by Nyloth
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Oh yeah that's so much better and easier to understand...

Intellectual dishonnesty wink

You ask me if it looks better? Yes, it looks better. + as fallenj already said, you can close and clear a lot of things if you find it "cumbersome".

No.I don't. There wasn't any question.

Whatever you like it or not Solasta's UI helps players to understand how D&D works whatever we're talking about combats, inventory, character creation and character sheet etc...That's a fact.

You may like the grey block or not... It changes nothing.
Posted By: Clawfoot Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 09:01 AM
I've been disappointed. The atmosphere/vibe of the game feels wrong. Larian made it too much like Divinity with non-stop comedy and campiness. The NPCs behave like they're in a movie that deliberately cast the very worst actors in the industry, with acting so cringeworthy and hammy that it's painful to watch. While the original BG series had room for comic relief and over-the-topness, this game seems to have almost nothing other than that. Everything is cranked up to 11, nothing is down to earth. Every part of BG3 comes off like it was designed by someone whose main goal was to make things as extreme and unusual as possible. I really prefer my fantasy settings to be tempered against a backdrop of realism, and BG3 utterly fails to be a believable experience. It ruins any chance of immersion for me.

And then it's just too similar to D:OS in all aspects. It feels like playing a D&D mod for D:OS2. The looks, the controls, the playstyle, the way you interact with the gameplay environment; Larian really didn't do enough to make the game feel different. Imagine if Bethesda had made Cyberpunk2077 and it was literally just Skyrim set in Night City, with Skyrim controls and mechanics and everything. Disappointing, to say the least.

Finally, the combat is terrible. Just profoundly unenjoyable. Part of that comes down to the fact that 5e is a tabletop game that translates inelegantly into a turn-based video game experience, but Larian could have alleviated that somewhat by not restricting the party size to four. With just four party members, the player just doesn't get to do enough during fights. Often you sit there for minutes waiting for a turn, and then you get to do one thing with one character and it's time to wait again. I believe Larian will heavily tone down the mindboggingly terrible "elemental surfaces" stuff in time for release, so that's not something I'm too worried about, but combat as a whole is so clunky and boring.
Posted By: Baldurs-Gate-Fan Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 09:58 AM
Originally Posted by Clawfoot
I've been disappointed. The atmosphere/vibe of the game feels wrong. Larian made it too much like Divinity with non-stop comedy and campiness. The NPCs behave like they're in a movie that deliberately cast the very worst actors in the industry, with acting so cringeworthy and hammy that it's painful to watch. While the original BG series had room for comic relief and over-the-topness, this game seems to have almost nothing other than that. Everything is cranked up to 11, nothing is down to earth. Every part of BG3 comes off like it was designed by someone whose main goal was to make things as extreme and unusual as possible. I really prefer my fantasy settings to be tempered against a backdrop of realism, and BG3 utterly fails to be a believable experience. It ruins any chance of immersion for me.

And then it's just too similar to D:OS in all aspects. It feels like playing a D&D mod for D:OS2. The looks, the controls, the playstyle, the way you interact with the gameplay environment; Larian really didn't do enough to make the game feel different. Imagine if Bethesda had made Cyberpunk2077 and it was literally just Skyrim set in Night City, with Skyrim controls and mechanics and everything. Disappointing, to say the least.

Finally, the combat is terrible. Just profoundly unenjoyable. Part of that comes down to the fact that 5e is a tabletop game that translates inelegantly into a turn-based video game experience, but Larian could have alleviated that somewhat by not restricting the party size to four. With just four party members, the player just doesn't get to do enough during fights. Often you sit there for minutes waiting for a turn, and then you get to do one thing with one character and it's time to wait again. I believe Larian will heavily tone down the mindboggingly terrible "elemental surfaces" stuff in time for release, so that's not something I'm too worried about, but combat as a whole is so clunky and boring.



So true and has been said over and over and over again. Yet larian doesnt even comment on most of the critics and avoids any participation on a dialog on this matter.
Posted By: Innateagle Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 10:08 AM
About the UI, i hope they go with the standard 5ish quick items. As it is right now they way it handles picked up items is overwhelmingly bad, just a lot of clutter that pushes down new spells and stuff like that.
Posted By: pageu Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 10:20 AM
Originally Posted by Baldurs-Gate-Fan
Originally Posted by Clawfoot
(...) boring.



So true and has been said over and over and over again. Yet larian doesnt even comment on most of the critics and avoids any participation on a dialog on this matter.

I get it, you guys simply don't like the game. But stop trying to ruin it (you won't change it anyway) for others who like it as it is. BG3 looks similar to DOS2, because it uses the same engine, but nearly everything else is different, especially the combat.
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 10:49 AM
Originally Posted by pageu
Originally Posted by Baldurs-Gate-Fan
Originally Posted by Clawfoot
(...) boring.



So true and has been said over and over and over again. Yet larian doesnt even comment on most of the critics and avoids any participation on a dialog on this matter.

I get it, you guys simply don't like the game. But stop trying to ruin it (you won't change it anyway) for others who like it as it is. BG3 looks similar to DOS2, because it uses the same engine, but nearly everything else is different, especially the combat.

They're giving their feedback to improve the game. That's what an EA is for.

We won't do another list of similar things between DoS and BG3, I guess.
Posted By: pageu Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 11:14 AM
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
They're giving their feedback to improve the game. That's what an EA is for.

I wouldn't call Clawfoot's "EVERYTHING'S BAD" a feedback.
Posted By: Sordak Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 11:17 AM
unqualified feedback is irrelevant.

Larian cannot change anyhting about a subjective perspective "its like original sin" - well it isnt. so what are they gonna change?

Basically you can tell someones opinion is irrelevant if they cannot even express what they dislike
"Oh it doesnt feel right"
"its too colourfull" (ive disproven this before, look it up)
"it feels like DOS"
"m-muh.."
Posted By: adkfina Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 11:53 AM
Originally Posted by pageu
Originally Posted by Baldurs-Gate-Fan
Originally Posted by Clawfoot
(...) boring.



So true and has been said over and over and over again. Yet larian doesnt even comment on most of the critics and avoids any participation on a dialog on this matter.

I get it, you guys simply don't like the game. But stop trying to ruin it (you won't change it anyway) for others who like it as it is. BG3 looks similar to DOS2, because it uses the same engine, but nearly everything else is different, especially the combat.

I don't get this logic, or the entitlement that comes with it. How is op trying to "ruin" the game? It's not *your* game, and he's just expressing his opinion. Why be a fascist about it?
Posted By: Black_Elk Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 11:59 AM
It just doesn't have the same sense of scale that I was expecting and hoping it would have. I don't know how to put it much more succinctly

The party is smaller than I would have liked
companions are fewer in number
classes available to play as a PC right now are very limited
char builds in general seem fairly narrow, with each class basically branching along one of two lines.
The variety of Backgrounds doesn't really make up for the lack of variety in core Races/Classes (or the subs within those, like having a variety of magical schools/priest domains etc.)
Char creation and aesthetic customization options like heads, voices, or even clothing/armor sets to define the character's look are pretty limited
level cap is lower than I'd have thought
There is a good number of spells, about 80 altogether, but the spellcasting UI has a way of making this seem on the low end, or maybe its just because some spells are clearly better, so I only use like half of them.
Right now it feels like there are maybe 50-60 NPCs and about as many unique combat encounters on offer
The map is not as large as I would have hoped. I mean like the discrete areas within the broader 'world' map
Basically going to the wiki https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Locations or https://guides.gamepressure.com/baldurs-gate-iii/ and then looking at the aggregate material, its not as much as I'd hope from a first Act. Unless the second and third act are way more expansive. Or if this is like a 5 act game, rather than the 3 acts everyone seems to assume. About 25 hours worth of gameplay is what they said. Its hard to know how much bigger its going to get with the full release, since the EA is being presented more like a teaser.

One thing that is larger than I anticipated is the cinematic element, and it is very pretty too look at on the first run. I was captivated enough on the initial pass to continue playing, despite not feeling totally stoked about the controls and general inside/outside of combat gameplay. The story pushed along well enough, and I enjoyed doing the Goblin and Druid paths. But I had really hoped to spend a lot more time in the game, whereas instead I keep showing up at the forums to nitpick. I feel like that's not a great sign. I played the BG1/2 games and their expansions for like a decade before ever having the urge to try to join a forum about it, or to hunt down mods, or things of that sort. The game just had enough content to keep me humming, whereas with this one, I feel impatient and kinda content starved. I think maybe I just figured the game would be further along at the point of EA. I'm sure I'd have bought it regardless, just on pure enthusiasm of BG, still though...



I don't have the experience to compare this game to other contemporary games in the genre, just talking about the impression coming here the earlier Baldur's Gate games. But then I honestly don't know how I'd have felt about BG1 if it ended after the Kobold mines. Its just hard to assess a game when we only get to see the keyhole version of it.

I think the people who have the chops to go under the hood, to datamine or whatever, probably have a better sense of the full picture we're likely to get. Looking at nexus is encouraging, if only to see what stuff has been unlocked. But there's no roadmap out, so when left to speculate I kind of tend to fear for the worst, rather than assuming that there is a metric shit ton of killer content being held in reserve just to wow me when the full thing drops. I don't have a divinity experience to measure this against, though I gather that seems to be the more natural comparison here, as opposed to the earlier BG1/2 games. But coming from those I just expected it to be bigger. I think because I've heard that there won't be much more content in the EA (I don't know from where, I guess there are better sources of information than the News forum here lol), I'm kind of rationing the material of the game. Like I've tried to avoid hitting the underdark just so I can leave myself something to play around with, if they end up improving the hotbar or tweak the camera/movement UI, or push out another class sometime soon. But otherwise I think its kind of cul-de-sac'd right now. Hoping patch 4 is a lot more substantial than the prior 3.
Posted By: pageu Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 12:42 PM
Originally Posted by adkfina
I don't get this logic, or the entitlement that comes with it. How is op trying to "ruin" the game? It's not *your* game, and he's just expressing his opinion. Why be a fascist about it?

What? Op clearly states, that he doesn't like the core mechanics of the game. Changing core mechanics would ruin current idea of BG3.

Do you even know what 'fascist' means? XD
Posted By: adkfina Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 12:48 PM
Originally Posted by pageu
Originally Posted by adkfina
I don't get this logic, or the entitlement that comes with it. How is op trying to "ruin" the game? It's not *your* game, and he's just expressing his opinion. Why be a fascist about it?

What? Op clearly states, that he doesn't like the core mechanics of the game. Changing core mechanics would ruin current idea of BG3.

Do you even know what 'fascist' means? XD

Yeah no it's called a hyperbole and not a literal description. I don't know you obviously or how insufferable you are irl, but it fits in this case.

And since you're slow I'm just going to reiterate, it's not *your* game and *he's* not the developer even. It's his opinion and you should learn to be respectful towards it.
Posted By: vometia Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 12:55 PM
Quit snarking, guys.
Posted By: Baldurs-Gate-Fan Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 01:17 PM
Originally Posted by Black_Elk
It just doesn't have the same sense of scale that I was expecting and hoping it would have. I don't know how to put it much more succinctly

The party is smaller than I would have liked
companions are fewer in number
classes available to play as a PC right now are very limited
char builds in general seem fairly narrow, with each class basically branching along one of two lines.
The variety of Backgrounds doesn't really make up for the lack of variety in core Races/Classes (or the subs within those, like having a variety of magical schools/priest domains etc.)
Char creation and aesthetic customization options like heads, voices, or even clothing/armor sets to define the character's look are pretty limited
level cap is lower than I'd have thought
There is a good number of spells, about 80 altogether, but the spellcasting UI has a way of making this seem on the low end, or maybe its just because some spells are clearly better, so I only use like half of them.
Right now it feels like there are maybe 50-60 NPCs and about as many unique combat encounters on offer
The map is not as large as I would have hoped. I mean like the discrete areas within the broader 'world' map
Basically going to the wiki https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Locations or https://guides.gamepressure.com/baldurs-gate-iii/ and then looking at the aggregate material, its not as much as I'd hope from a first Act. Unless the second and third act are way more expansive. Or if this is like a 5 act game, rather than the 3 acts everyone seems to assume. About 25 hours worth of gameplay is what they said. Its hard to know how much bigger its going to get with the full release, since the EA is being presented more like a teaser.

One thing that is larger than I anticipated is the cinematic element, and it is very pretty too look at on the first run. I was captivated enough on the initial pass to continue playing, despite not feeling totally stoked about the controls and general inside/outside of combat gameplay. The story pushed along well enough, and I enjoyed doing the Goblin and Druid paths. But I had really hoped to spend a lot more time in the game, whereas instead I keep showing up at the forums to nitpick. I feel like that's not a great sign. I played the BG1/2 games and their expansions for like a decade before ever having the urge to try to join a forum about it, or to hunt down mods, or things of that sort. The game just had enough content to keep me humming, whereas with this one, I feel impatient and kinda content starved. I think maybe I just figured the game would be further along at the point of EA. I'm sure I'd have bought it regardless, just on pure enthusiasm of BG, still though...



I don't have the experience to compare this game to other contemporary games in the genre, just talking about the impression coming here the earlier Baldur's Gate games. But then I honestly don't know how I'd have felt about BG1 if it ended after the Kobold mines. Its just hard to assess a game when we only get to see the keyhole version of it.

I think the people who have the chops to go under the hood, to datamine or whatever, probably have a better sense of the full picture we're likely to get. Looking at nexus is encouraging, if only to see what stuff has been unlocked. But there's no roadmap out, so when left to speculate I kind of tend to fear for the worst, rather than assuming that there is a metric shit ton of killer content being held in reserve just to wow me when the full thing drops. I don't have a divinity experience to measure this against, though I gather that seems to be the more natural comparison here, as opposed to the earlier BG1/2 games. But coming from those I just expected it to be bigger. I think because I've heard that there won't be much more content in the EA (I don't know from where, I guess there are better sources of information than the News forum here lol), I'm kind of rationing the material of the game. Like I've tried to avoid hitting the underdark just so I can leave myself something to play around with, if they end up improving the hotbar or tweak the camera/movement UI, or push out another class sometime soon. But otherwise I think its kind of cul-de-sac'd right now. Hoping patch 4 is a lot more substantial than the prior 3.
Originally Posted by Black_Elk
It just doesn't have the same sense of scale that I was expecting and hoping it would have. I don't know how to put it much more succinctly

The party is smaller than I would have liked
companions are fewer in number
classes available to play as a PC right now are very limited
char builds in general seem fairly narrow, with each class basically branching along one of two lines.
The variety of Backgrounds doesn't really make up for the lack of variety in core Races/Classes (or the subs within those, like having a variety of magical schools/priest domains etc.)
Char creation and aesthetic customization options like heads, voices, or even clothing/armor sets to define the character's look are pretty limited
level cap is lower than I'd have thought
There is a good number of spells, about 80 altogether, but the spellcasting UI has a way of making this seem on the low end, or maybe its just because some spells are clearly better, so I only use like half of them.
Right now it feels like there are maybe 50-60 NPCs and about as many unique combat encounters on offer
The map is not as large as I would have hoped. I mean like the discrete areas within the broader 'world' map
Basically going to the wiki https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Locations or https://guides.gamepressure.com/baldurs-gate-iii/ and then looking at the aggregate material, its not as much as I'd hope from a first Act. Unless the second and third act are way more expansive. Or if this is like a 5 act game, rather than the 3 acts everyone seems to assume. About 25 hours worth of gameplay is what they said. Its hard to know how much bigger its going to get with the full release, since the EA is being presented more like a teaser.

One thing that is larger than I anticipated is the cinematic element, and it is very pretty too look at on the first run. I was captivated enough on the initial pass to continue playing, despite not feeling totally stoked about the controls and general inside/outside of combat gameplay. The story pushed along well enough, and I enjoyed doing the Goblin and Druid paths. But I had really hoped to spend a lot more time in the game, whereas instead I keep showing up at the forums to nitpick. I feel like that's not a great sign. I played the BG1/2 games and their expansions for like a decade before ever having the urge to try to join a forum about it, or to hunt down mods, or things of that sort. The game just had enough content to keep me humming, whereas with this one, I feel impatient and kinda content starved. I think maybe I just figured the game would be further along at the point of EA. I'm sure I'd have bought it regardless, just on pure enthusiasm of BG, still though...



I don't have the experience to compare this game to other contemporary games in the genre, just talking about the impression coming here the earlier Baldur's Gate games. But then I honestly don't know how I'd have felt about BG1 if it ended after the Kobold mines. Its just hard to assess a game when we only get to see the keyhole version of it.

I think the people who have the chops to go under the hood, to datamine or whatever, probably have a better sense of the full picture we're likely to get. Looking at nexus is encouraging, if only to see what stuff has been unlocked. But there's no roadmap out, so when left to speculate I kind of tend to fear for the worst, rather than assuming that there is a metric shit ton of killer content being held in reserve just to wow me when the full thing drops. I don't have a divinity experience to measure this against, though I gather that seems to be the more natural comparison here, as opposed to the earlier BG1/2 games. But coming from those I just expected it to be bigger. I think because I've heard that there won't be much more content in the EA (I don't know from where, I guess there are better sources of information than the News forum here lol), I'm kind of rationing the material of the game. Like I've tried to avoid hitting the underdark just so I can leave myself something to play around with, if they end up improving the hotbar or tweak the camera/movement UI, or push out another class sometime soon. But otherwise I think its kind of cul-de-sac'd right now. Hoping patch 4 is a lot more substantial than the prior 3.


Good arguments and well written. This along with the totally unfun combat (feels soo cheese and unimmersive) is the Impression me and Most Friends had after we all bought the game because it’s named baldurs gate 3. I dont think it was their intention but it surely feels like they used the name baldurs gate3 to sell dos3 beyond expectations.
Posted By: Black_Elk Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 01:33 PM
Thanks! Sometimes I ramble a lot, but I do think that it's important to keep those first impressions in mind.

One thing I think would really help the game at this point, would be for Larian to focus heavily on providing more up front content, basically things that the player can see/feel right away. And I do mean right away hehe. This could be stuff from within Character creation (like more Races/Classes/Cosmetics) or in the prologue or early Wilderness Areas (new encounters or NPCs) or the QoL type stuff that becomes immediately apparent when interacting with the user interface at any point in the game.

Stuff that we engage with all the time, like gamesave organization or inventory management for example. Or even menu graphics or load screens could fit in that category I think. Pushing out material that won't go unnoticed because it jumps out at us right away or because we are constantly tooling around with it. But stuff that we see and notice immediately in a replay, not like stuff that's an hour or two into the gameplay. If that makes sense. The sooner they patch in all the classes the better, and I hope they at least give us a 5th party member as a nod to all the noise in the party size thread. I wish they had gone with Merc companions in the EA, and left this whole Origin thing till the full release. I think the Origin characters have kind of overshadowed more important things that I wish were at the forefront here.
Posted By: DuskHorseman Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 01:40 PM
Alright, here's my response to the criticism by Black_Elk

>The party is smaller than I would have liked
That's fair. I would have preferred a 6-man party too, but the 4-man party is more in vogue with video games nowadays, and it falls directly in the center of what DnD 5e is balanced for, saying that the average campaign is usually balanced for 3-5 players, with 4 being a happy medium.

>companions are fewer in number
Larian is going for a quality over quantity approach with their companions, making them very interactable and having big personal quests. We also know that more companions are to come, these 5 are just the ones we have starting out. Baldur's Gate has always had a lot of really cool companions, but usually they haven't been this involved with the world.

>classes available to play as a PC right now are very limited
That's an EA thing. The other 6 classes in the PHB will be released as EA goes along.

>the variety of Backgrounds doesn't really make up for the lack of variety in core Races/Classes (or the subs within those, like having a variety of magical schools/priest domains etc.)
Again, this is an EA thing. More races will come, at least the three others in the PHB, and possibly others.

>Char creation and aesthetic customization options like heads, voices, or even clothing/armor sets to define the character's look are pretty limited
Oh yeah totally. I hope they expand upon character creation as time goes on.

>level cap is lower than I'd have thought
Again, Early Access. It's a level 1-4 adventure, fighting goblins and hags.

>There is a good number of spells, about 80 altogether, but the spellcasting UI has a way of making this seem on the low end, or maybe its just because some spells are clearly better, so I only use like half of them.
To be fair, certain spells have *always* been better than others. More will be added as time goes on. Perhaps the reason for the low-looking count is the fact there is little overlap between the Cleric and Wizard spell lists, so right now they each have, like, 40.

>Right now it feels like there are maybe 50-60 NPCs and about as many unique combat encounters on offer
There are definitely more than that. Not a ton of them are super significant, but you can have a lot of one-off encounters with the NPCS. the Tieflings and Goblins especially have a lot of little conversations.

>Basically going to the wiki https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Locations or https://guides.gamepressure.com/baldurs-gate-iii/ and then looking at the aggregate material, its not as much as I'd hope from a first Act. Unless the second and third act are way more expansive. Or if this is like a 5 act game, rather than the 3 acts everyone seems to assume. About 25 hours worth of gameplay is what they said. Its hard to know how much bigger its going to get with the full release, since the EA is being presented more like a teaser.
The areas are, however, highly detailed. Of those 25 hours, you can spend a good few of them at the Druid Grove just messing around. That list also groups the entire Underdark section as one giant area. I'd say that Act 1 was suitably long imo. This is also considering that it isn't the full of the act, as the Githyanki Creche, the Shadow-Cursed Lands, and Moonrise Towers (Which, by the way, was confirmed by Kevin VanOrd, one of the devs, to be part of Act 1.) are totally missing from the game right now.

I don't have a ton to say about the rest of it, but this was a well-constructed criticism. I find some issue, and I hope that as time goes along, most of this will be addressed!
Posted By: Kadajko Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 01:41 PM
@Black_Elk

You are such a self-concious consumer lol. You KNOW Larian are working on things but you are giving tips on how to make it SEEM like they are doing more so that it would make you feel different about the game.
Posted By: Black_Elk Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 02:24 PM
heheh its totally true though right

I honestly was just thinking to myself right now, how would the story beats hold up here if we never got to see any of these Origins till the full release? Like basically the reverse approach of what they actually went with. Say they had used mercs at first and held back on the origins for example. Instead of grumbling about how Shadowheart isn't nice enough, or has lame stats or whatever, could we then just judge the story progression in a more direct sort of way? Maybe held in suspense about who the Origin characters were actually going to be without really knowing and having that be a point of enthusiasm and anticipation (basically the way people are pulling for Minthara or Halsin or Sazza to join the party right now?) I'm not sure the opening of the game would connect in anything like the same way.

Right now the first Act is pretty reliant on the Origin companions to set the stage and introduce the whole narrative thrust, since they deliver most of the key early dialogue. To the point where if they were removed, the game wouldn't have much set up at all, and the PC would have no clue what's going on or where to head half the time.

Then I was trying to imagine, how does this get set up when a player chooses to play as Lae'zel? Lae'zel as the protagonist I mean. Rather than running into Lae'zel jumping down at us on the Nautiloid, is that suddenly going to be like Gale or Wyll, delivering the "Abomination! This your End!" line? Because that would certainly take away from the drama of that "scene" in the prologue. I can imagine a totally different convo with a different Origin companion getting subbed in, but it would definitely impact the feel and the delivery.

Or like if you play as Shadowheart, is it going to be Asterion in that pod? Or someone else banging at the door on the beach to make it really clear that you should "look for a healer" since otherwise the protagonist probably doesn't have the first clue.

I can't see myself playing the game as any of the Origin characters, but my understanding is that it's pretty much the point of them, as pre-rolled toons with all the VO content. But because they've sort of been presented as the "Stars" of the show in EA, now it feels near impossible to consider what the game looks like without them driving the story and the cinematics.

In know BG1 certainly worked like that to a degree. You were forced to interact with Imoen after Gorion gets dusted, no matter what you said to her the day before. But I think unlike this one, leaving candle keep you could opt to ignore literally everyone, and the game would still basically lead you onto the path. Even if you ditched Imoen, ignored the Zhents, punk'd Elminster, or told Jaheira to get bent, they weren't the one's conveying the main narrative. That happens through the forced NPC interactions, and dreams and such. But I think BG3 uses the Origins companions as a much more involved plot device, to the point where its picture the early game standing up without them. Because this one is way more cinematic, with the early scenes mostly comprised of Origin companion intros, I think the initial story beats would be a lot less compelling. But I want the game to be about my Custom Character, not the fab 5 Origins. I just wish there were more classes and more companions to choose from, so the idea of substitutions or leaving someone behind in a playthrough wouldn't feel like that's upending the run.
Posted By: Thieves Rule Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 02:37 PM
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
So what is the current consensus on the game? Living up to the hype?
Have all the BG1/BG2 D^D fans left for Solasta?
My feelings are that the VERY cinematic nature of BG3 is hurting/slowing its development (clumsy/cringy dialogues, tons of dialogue graphic bugs,lacking atmosphere...) while Solasta is powering on update after update fleshing out the world and its system in a very convincing manner. Yea the dialogues aren't amazing <AAA> stuff, but the game inst completely relying on them like in BG3. The game-play is already super solid. Can the same be said for BG3?

Each has its merits. I will say, I've put in almost 400 hours into BG3. Only 35 into Solasta. To me, BG3 has a lot of replayability. There are a lot of ways to progress through the game and lots of side things to explore. Solasta not so much. Likely I'll play Solasta through once and be done. BG3 I can see running through several times as playing with different companions and taking the different routes through the game makes it fun.
Posted By: Bufotenina Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 03:06 PM
Bethesda has two main games: the Fallout series and the Elders scrolls series. I've played both. Being them from Bethesda they have similar mechanisms.

I'll never understand the surprise about Larian (who has made its name known thanks to the Original Sin: Divinity pair of games) maintaining an obvious recognizable stile.

As I'll never get the comparision with the precedent Baldur Gates. I have bought them because I wanted to have a little of knowledge about the background story of this set. I got bored, not for the graphic that is old, but by the chaotic combat system, I've no problems in learning new playstyles tied to different approaches by the diverse software companies, but rarely (even in the past) was I so annoyed by a combat system.

Not the turn based vs paused but the overall chaos, the jumbled and mumbled system that forced to continuously move the pointer to the characters Icons because the graphics made almost impossible (due even to the abbundance of companions and enemies) to discern one character from another.

When I read some messages I feel like they are more about the warm memories tied to the age when we played them than to the actual worth of said games.

Larian has to do something about the battle system (in the goblin cam if you don't take a prehemtive approach eliminating little groups of goblins thus lowering their numberd in vision of the aftermath of killing Dor you have to battle 20 and more enemies, added to the four members of the party it means it takes a lot of time, too much, specially if the battle ends up with a defeat.

In the translation from DOS to BG3 they've managed this aspect in the worst way possible. Specially in a set of rules that made the most powerful tool (spells) very limited.

I don't care abut the party 4 vs 6. I really don't care, maybe because in almost all the games that I have who have parties 4 is the usual composition (a tank, a healer, a dps, a rogue, that is you have all the needed templates).

Furthermore I'm convinced that the problems came not only from Larian but from how the DnD rules are made the existence of slots instead of stamina or manapoints make it overly complicated any combat, specialy for casual players [that are the majority, sorry to rain in this parade of hardcore high strategist players] who don't delve in spending time creating complex strategies or restarting anew or from a far in playtime save [that by the way is a form of savescumming, you can not save just before any single situation but if you replay the game after a defeat you're savescumming but just convincing yourself that you are not because you don't use it as frequent as other player, and when you reload, it doen't matter if after countless hours of game or any five seconds, you are using metaplaying because you already knwo what is going on. The only players that could lament savescumming are those that when their character died stop playing because just like in real life when you f*ck up you can not go back in time and redo the thing you messed up] after a defeat.

Other iterations like Neverwinter made use of stamina and manapoints with a due regeneration time and spells/skills have a time of recovery, DOS too made use of AP and different times of refresh for different spells and skills, the Elder Scrolls did the same.

The system of DnD is messed up also because being based on dice rolls luck plays a major roll (is the trend of the various miss/miss/miss/critical miss/miss/miss threads in the forum) so you have limited amount of spells, you save your best ones to the right moment but luck mess up and you get fu*ed up because you consumed the slot.

In a table top game this is not a big problem because usually you're not alone so you are enjoying the company of your fellow players thus a series of bad luck rolls can become a moment of conviviality and fun, the dungeon master can use the situation to create a new piece of story and so on. In a video game that part is completely lost (even in multyplayer) and the problem with the system of DnD (but in reality of many tabletop games) explodes.

Larian, Solasta, whoever did the precedent BG, can try to come up with a system that is less or more complicated and so on but at the end of the road the problem relies with DnD.

That's the reason they made the game full with scrolls, because it would be insensate in a reality where adventurers know they would go from one fight to another with limited spell and skill slots not to have a way to overcome that problem.


Answering the original poster, I like the game. Love the cinematics, love the dialogues (even though I couldn't swallow how they, just to please a very sexist part of players, sweetened Shadowheart) but I hope they add more options, sarcasm, humour, irony, in the full release, the combat system is not complicated but the turn based system becames time consuming when the battles imply a lot of enemies (like in the goblin camp), I appreciate that the game relies in dialogues after all this is not a first person shooting game, but an rpg (even if is not the more theatrical oriented White Wolf set), the bugs and so on: this is a early access, what do people expect? The full experience? When even games released in full go through a lot of bugs and glitches and need patches and hotfixes? [i admit that I'm lucky and my computer support the game very well so only in one instance I had serious problems].

I just hope that they start adding more new material specially since it seems it's going to take months before the full release. I maybe have a very bad memory but at my third run I'm starting to get bored.
Posted By: Kadajko Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 03:07 PM
@Black_Elk

I think you would only get lost in the plot without companions if you are not familiar with D&D at all, most of us know who the mindflayers are and how they reproduce and what you need to do if you get tadpoled. Which is a fair point of lack of accessibility if you are new to the franchise and are doing a lone wolf playthrough, but not too relevant to the plot. I've tried playing solo, it works.
Posted By: biomag Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 05:53 PM
Complaining about BG3 having D&D in there is a bit more than just simply off. Sorry, they made their marketing campaign that it is heavily based on D&D 5e - what did people expect? D&D has had a ton of issues through all its editions and I never was a fan of it, but 5e is the first good iteration of it for what it is doing. Its easy to get into, it has a very good flow and it seems overall pretty well balacned among classes (though subclasses can have issues). Its not realistic, it doesn't try to be and that's fine in a game like this. Its not overlly detailed and it doesn't need to. If you don't like D&D systems - then games based on its lore are simply not for you. I don't watch Marvel movies because I don't like super hero stories, but I also don't go to the cinema to complain about having super heroes in it.


I did not expect BG3 to be systemically like BG1 & 2 - because they said its based on 5e and not the outdated old editions that I only played for the lack of other video games back then. I also expected not to have to deal with a combat so heavily influenced by DOS2 because they said its based on 5e and only diverges from it where NECESSARY - and that's not the case. Its not even just changing details because its a video game. They did it deliberatly in a lot of ways completely breaking the systems balance to cater to their own preferences.

Party size isn't for me something crucial, I don't care if its 4 or 6.
I don't care about the limited options the EA offers, because I understand it makes no sense for them to broader it and it just adds more stuff that needs hotfixes instead simply expanding when they are ready. I don't like the companions at all, but I know this is just personal opinion and as long as the game gives me the option for a custom party I won't complain.
The story is so far meh, though I didn't expect it to tie to BG 1&2 anyhow, it didn't engage me at all as they constantly keep throwing random stuff at us trying to show off the whole monster manual, so the whole thing's urgency is just a blurred mess and the game keeps reminding you at every opportunity its a game and time doesn't matter, but I'm fine with it. Its not the best execution, but most RPG games have to admit being guilty of failing at urgency.
Cinematics being odd like so many things to accomodate for the developers' darlings - the origin characters - annoys me, but I get it, some people like them as much as I loathe them.


Overall this game is fine if you are not looking for a good D&D 5e adaptation and you liked DOS2 combat. Not knowing D&D or not caring about it you can like the combat system on its own merits or not. To me its an unbalanced mess, pretty much like DOS2 and for the same reasons and thus not enjoyable at all. I wouldn't even complain about it, if they were not harping about 'how much this game is like D&D 5e'. If I knew they would take so many liberties, breaking the balance for the sake of DOS2 mechanics, I wouldn't have bought the game.

At this point I'm already certain that I won't call it a masterpiece. To many design decions are simply not on par for me with things we have seen done in other games (story, immersion, characters,...). Question for me is will they manage to at least save it to the level of being a proper 5e combat or continue with their homebrew. If they do turn it into what they were selling it might be at least a good game. Currently I can't get myself to play it at least until something new is added that is worth testing out. After one playthrough I'm too annoyed by the companions and combats to bother.
Posted By: Some_Twerp753 Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 07:11 PM
I'm enjoying the game overall, there are some bothers.

-When a party member is downed outside of combat, realtime ticks over. I'd prefer to have it autopause or even go into turn, allowing a player to react comfortably.
-Splitting the party can be a faff with the portrait system. Either a shift+click or shorter drag+drop sytem would alleviate this
-No casting on the character protrait. Once more, I'd much prefer this, as it's easier to pop buffs on characters then. As an aside, it would be nicer if

A lot of people say "This isn't like Baldur's Gate I or II" as a complaint. I don't intend to disparage that opinion; I simply do not share it. Baldur's Gate was from another era, with different hardware. It used to hog hard drives when 8gb was considered huge, it used a different ruleset of dubious faithfulness (many mechanics did not work properly or were useless, especially certain spells) and, more importantly, it was the story of <CHARMAE>. When I heard Baldur's Gate III was actually-finally-this-time-really going forward, my reaction was "Oh no" thanks to reboots like Thi4f, Ghostbusters 2016, Disney Star Wars, Thundercats Roar, the Devil May Cry reboot and... well anyway.

So I enjoy the game is (apparently) a very clear break from the first two games while seemingly keeping the central theme of "How much are you willing to sacrifice for power". It's a sequel in that respect, akin to... I dunno, a james bond film is broadly similar in terms of plot
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 07:26 PM
Originally Posted by Some_Twerp753
I'm enjoying the game overall, there are some bothers.

-When a party member is downed outside of combat, realtime ticks over. I'd prefer to have it autopause or even go into turn, allowing a player to react comfortably.
-Splitting the party can be a faff with the portrait system. Either a shift+click or shorter drag+drop sytem would alleviate this
-No casting on the character protrait. Once more, I'd much prefer this, as it's easier to pop buffs on characters then. As an aside, it would be nicer if

A lot of people say "This isn't like Baldur's Gate I or II" as a complaint. I don't intend to disparage that opinion; I simply do not share it. Baldur's Gate was from another era, with different hardware. It used to hog hard drives when 8gb was considered huge, it used a different ruleset of dubious faithfulness (many mechanics did not work properly or were useless, especially certain spells) and, more importantly, it was the story of <CHARMAE>. When I heard Baldur's Gate III was actually-finally-this-time-really going forward, my reaction was "Oh no" thanks to reboots like Thi4f, Ghostbusters 2016, Disney Star Wars, Thundercats Roar, the Devil May Cry reboot and... well anyway.

So I enjoy the game is (apparently) a very clear break from the first two games while seemingly keeping the central theme of "How much are you willing to sacrifice for power". It's a sequel in that respect, akin to... I dunno, a james bond film is broadly similar in terms of plot

A game that feels like BG1/2 doesn't mean a copy of something that was made 20 years ago.
Baldur's Gate is not just "D&D", the story of the Bhaalspawn or 2D isometric.graphics.

"this isn't Baldur's Gate" mean that BG3 has nothing that is inspired by the old games mechanics except (maybe) "Bhaal" and "D&D". That's true, and that's VERY dissapointing for old fans like me.

What about controls ? Party size ? D/N cycle ? Huge number of companions ? Fast travel trough the worldmap ? Random encounters ? These are just a few exemples but is that too old for a modern game ?
Posted By: VioletGrey Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 08:37 PM
In my opinion they need an easy mode for us new players. Combat is way too frustrating, especially when a monster seems like it gets to hit you twice for every one time you hit it. Argh.

Also, they just need more side quests and the occasional random mob in the wilderness that you can kill for more XP, because I'm finding leveling up hard. There aren't enough side quests.

It would help if they improved the meager tutorial they have, too. It needs to explain how to "dip" weapons, for one thing.
Posted By: nation Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 08:40 PM
Originally Posted by Black_Elk
I think the Origin characters have kind of overshadowed more important things that I wish were at the forefront here.
i think this is a good comment to highlight speaking to an increasing trend ive seen bg3's ea having recently in that its been somewhat directionless with no real messaging via larian regarding what the devs are most looking at in terms of feedback at this time in development and/or when new features will be added as part of ea - it can be debated amongst the community where larian's resources are best being served (altho i too agree that the devs origin characters seem to be getting all the love), however as ea has continued the more and more i feel like larian may have been somewhat too ambitious and bitten off more than they can chew with the number of narrative and gameplay mechanics being concurrently implemented and its ultimately to the game's detriment.

tbh, i would have preferred if larian had first nailed down more of the gameplay mechanics (5e class/combat/spell translation, party size and movement control, cam control, day/night cycle and camp/rest mechanics, map/waypoint travel and exploration, random/ambush mobs [ambush while resting], full dnd character sheet ui, etc.) first or had that be a focus for ea feedback, seeing also as there are still more phb race/class options yet available (and at higher lvls in later game), before opening up 'act1' or tying in any story/narrative/spoiler points so to not split the studio's efforts/resources, but i can understand that being unrealistic from a video game development perspective given this stage of larians process.

as an aside, i hope in the future that larian will provide us with some type of ea roadmap or timeline for what and when new game features are planned to be implemented, even just estimates with 'underpromise/overdeliver' messaging would go a long way to curb what i feel is a growing sense of aimlessness during bg3's ea and also be a way to share with the community what the devs are paying the most attention to and where the community should be most focusing their feedback towards.
Posted By: DuskHorseman Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 08:44 PM
Originally Posted by Clawfoot
I've been disappointed. The atmosphere/vibe of the game feels wrong. Larian made it too much like Divinity with non-stop comedy and campiness. The NPCs behave like they're in a movie that deliberately cast the very worst actors in the industry, with acting so cringeworthy and hammy that it's painful to watch. While the original BG series had room for comic relief and over-the-topness, this game seems to have almost nothing other than that. Everything is cranked up to 11, nothing is down to earth. Every part of BG3 comes off like it was designed by someone whose main goal was to make things as extreme and unusual as possible. I really prefer my fantasy settings to be tempered against a backdrop of realism, and BG3 utterly fails to be a believable experience. It ruins any chance of immersion for me.

And then it's just too similar to D:OS in all aspects. It feels like playing a D&D mod for D:OS2. The looks, the controls, the playstyle, the way you interact with the gameplay environment; Larian really didn't do enough to make the game feel different. Imagine if Bethesda had made Cyberpunk2077 and it was literally just Skyrim set in Night City, with Skyrim controls and mechanics and everything. Disappointing, to say the least.

Finally, the combat is terrible. Just profoundly unenjoyable. Part of that comes down to the fact that 5e is a tabletop game that translates inelegantly into a turn-based video game experience, but Larian could have alleviated that somewhat by not restricting the party size to four. With just four party members, the player just doesn't get to do enough during fights. Often you sit there for minutes waiting for a turn, and then you get to do one thing with one character and it's time to wait again. I believe Larian will heavily tone down the mindboggingly terrible "elemental surfaces" stuff in time for release, so that's not something I'm too worried about, but combat as a whole is so clunky and boring.
I am baffled by this first paragraph in particular. This game is, if anything, a little bit light on the humor compared to original Baldur's Gate games and the Divinity games. If anything, I kept waiting for a joke that never came with this game. I found the large majority of this game to be rather serious and down-to-earth. The opening with the dragon attack and the ride through hell is cinematic, but everything else was a bit subdued. The everyday stories of the refugees at the Tiefling camp and the general way everything played out was pretty fine imo. It just boggles the mind to me that you found this game ridiculous. What particular instances of ridiculousness stood out to you?

On the second paragraph, it's made by the same people. It stands to reason that there are certain design similarities. For the Bethesda thing, that's sort of what they did with Fallout because they're the *same game studio and they design games similarly because they are made by the same people*

The four party members has a reason. the main reason for that is the 5th edition reccomended party size. The Dungeon Master's Guide reccomends 3 to 5 players should make up an adventuring party. 4 fits cleanly between that. Other than that, it's subjective, so I got nothing.
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 09:59 PM
Originally Posted by DuskHorseman
Originally Posted by Clawfoot
I've been disappointed. The atmosphere/vibe of the game feels wrong. Larian made it too much like Divinity with non-stop comedy and campiness. The NPCs behave like they're in a movie that deliberately cast the very worst actors in the industry, with acting so cringeworthy and hammy that it's painful to watch. While the original BG series had room for comic relief and over-the-topness, this game seems to have almost nothing other than that. Everything is cranked up to 11, nothing is down to earth. Every part of BG3 comes off like it was designed by someone whose main goal was to make things as extreme and unusual as possible. I really prefer my fantasy settings to be tempered against a backdrop of realism, and BG3 utterly fails to be a believable experience. It ruins any chance of immersion for me.

And then it's just too similar to D:OS in all aspects. It feels like playing a D&D mod for D:OS2. The looks, the controls, the playstyle, the way you interact with the gameplay environment; Larian really didn't do enough to make the game feel different. Imagine if Bethesda had made Cyberpunk2077 and it was literally just Skyrim set in Night City, with Skyrim controls and mechanics and everything. Disappointing, to say the least.

Finally, the combat is terrible. Just profoundly unenjoyable. Part of that comes down to the fact that 5e is a tabletop game that translates inelegantly into a turn-based video game experience, but Larian could have alleviated that somewhat by not restricting the party size to four. With just four party members, the player just doesn't get to do enough during fights. Often you sit there for minutes waiting for a turn, and then you get to do one thing with one character and it's time to wait again. I believe Larian will heavily tone down the mindboggingly terrible "elemental surfaces" stuff in time for release, so that's not something I'm too worried about, but combat as a whole is so clunky and boring.
I am baffled by this first paragraph in particular. This game is, if anything, a little bit light on the humor compared to original Baldur's Gate games and the Divinity games. If anything, I kept waiting for a joke that never came with this game. I found the large majority of this game to be rather serious and down-to-earth. The opening with the dragon attack and the ride through hell is cinematic, but everything else was a bit subdued. The everyday stories of the refugees at the Tiefling camp and the general way everything played out was pretty fine imo. It just boggles the mind to me that you found this game ridiculous. What particular instances of ridiculousness stood out to you?

On the second paragraph, it's made by the same people. It stands to reason that there are certain design similarities. For the Bethesda thing, that's sort of what they did with Fallout because they're the *same game studio and they design games similarly because they are made by the same people*

The four party members has a reason. the main reason for that is the 5th edition reccomended party size. The Dungeon Master's Guide reccomends 3 to 5 players should make up an adventuring party. 4 fits cleanly between that. Other than that, it's subjective, so I got nothing.

One second the game is serious and you crush a head with your foot... The next second you dip your sword in a candle or a torch.

Next time you heard about poor refugees killed by goblins... A few minutes later you eat the head of a pig between two attack during combats.

See how it looks ridiculous and inconsistent all over the place ?

A game doesn't look serious only because people are dying or mature because you have sex scenes...


- BG3 is 4 party members because D&D is 3-5...
- BG3 is turn based because D&D is turn base even if there are rounds of 6 seconds and spell duration in minutes, not in turns (TT convenience ?)
- BG3 doesn't care about time because time doesn't exist in D&D...
- BG3 allow us to dip our weapons because you can dip weapons in D&D...

Wait... All those sentences also looks ridiculous...
Posted By: DuskHorseman Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 10:18 PM
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by DuskHorseman
Originally Posted by Clawfoot
I've been disappointed. The atmosphere/vibe of the game feels wrong. Larian made it too much like Divinity with non-stop comedy and campiness. The NPCs behave like they're in a movie that deliberately cast the very worst actors in the industry, with acting so cringeworthy and hammy that it's painful to watch. While the original BG series had room for comic relief and over-the-topness, this game seems to have almost nothing other than that. Everything is cranked up to 11, nothing is down to earth. Every part of BG3 comes off like it was designed by someone whose main goal was to make things as extreme and unusual as possible. I really prefer my fantasy settings to be tempered against a backdrop of realism, and BG3 utterly fails to be a believable experience. It ruins any chance of immersion for me.

And then it's just too similar to D:OS in all aspects. It feels like playing a D&D mod for D:OS2. The looks, the controls, the playstyle, the way you interact with the gameplay environment; Larian really didn't do enough to make the game feel different. Imagine if Bethesda had made Cyberpunk2077 and it was literally just Skyrim set in Night City, with Skyrim controls and mechanics and everything. Disappointing, to say the least.

Finally, the combat is terrible. Just profoundly unenjoyable. Part of that comes down to the fact that 5e is a tabletop game that translates inelegantly into a turn-based video game experience, but Larian could have alleviated that somewhat by not restricting the party size to four. With just four party members, the player just doesn't get to do enough during fights. Often you sit there for minutes waiting for a turn, and then you get to do one thing with one character and it's time to wait again. I believe Larian will heavily tone down the mindboggingly terrible "elemental surfaces" stuff in time for release, so that's not something I'm too worried about, but combat as a whole is so clunky and boring.
I am baffled by this first paragraph in particular. This game is, if anything, a little bit light on the humor compared to original Baldur's Gate games and the Divinity games. If anything, I kept waiting for a joke that never came with this game. I found the large majority of this game to be rather serious and down-to-earth. The opening with the dragon attack and the ride through hell is cinematic, but everything else was a bit subdued. The everyday stories of the refugees at the Tiefling camp and the general way everything played out was pretty fine imo. It just boggles the mind to me that you found this game ridiculous. What particular instances of ridiculousness stood out to you?

On the second paragraph, it's made by the same people. It stands to reason that there are certain design similarities. For the Bethesda thing, that's sort of what they did with Fallout because they're the *same game studio and they design games similarly because they are made by the same people*

The four party members has a reason. the main reason for that is the 5th edition reccomended party size. The Dungeon Master's Guide reccomends 3 to 5 players should make up an adventuring party. 4 fits cleanly between that. Other than that, it's subjective, so I got nothing.

One second the game is serious and you crush a head with your foot... The next second you dip your sword in a candle or a torch.

Next time you heard about poor refugees killed by goblins... A few minutes later you eat the head of a pig between two attack during combats.

See how it looks ridiculous and inconsistent all over the place ?



- BG3 is 4 party members because D&D is 3-5...
- BG3 is turn based because D&D is turn base (with rounds of 6 seconds and spell duration in minutes, not in turns)
- Time doesn't exist in BG3 because time doesn't exist in D&D...
- You can dip weapons in BG3 because you can dip weapons in D&D...

Wait... All those sentences also looks ridiculous...
So, you're saying that the game mechanics are somehow stupid or goofy? I don't understand why you would think that. I also didn't understand that was what you were getting at, it seemed as if you were claiming that the story varied wildly in tone, which it doesn't.

There's nothing too goofy about dipping imo, I think it's just sort of a catch-all in an attempt to show all the goofy combat shennanigans that any good DM would allow in actual, IRL, tabletop DnD.

I'm no proponent of eating to regain health either, but there's nothing that seems so ridiculous about doing it. It's been a thing in games for years. It's just, like... a thing. BG3 is four because that is the median party size in the reccomended size. It stands to reason that 4 is what was chosen.

And yes, BG3 is turn-based because DnD is turn based! That is absolutely correct!

Time does pass in BG3, just not in a day/night cycle. You travel around during the day, and take long rests when it gets dark.

Again, Dipping is sort of a catch-all for all of those DnD combat shenanigans that any good DM would allow.
Posted By: Dexai Re: BG3 current situation - 31/12/20 11:43 PM
No decent GM would allow you to use a candle on your sword and gain fire damage.
Posted By: Some_Twerp753 Re: BG3 current situation - 01/01/21 01:53 AM
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
A game that feels like BG1/2 doesn't mean a copy of something that was made 20 years ago.
Baldur's Gate is not just "D&D", the story of the Bhaalspawn or 2D isometric.graphics.

"this isn't Baldur's Gate" mean that BG3 has nothing that is inspired by the old games mechanics except (maybe) "Bhaal" and "D&D". That's true, and that's VERY dissapointing for old fans like me.

What about controls ? Party size ? D/N cycle ? Huge number of companions ? Fast travel trough the worldmap ? Random encounters ? These are just a few exemples but is that too old for a modern game ?
I think you misunderstand what I wrote (or I didn't explain myself very well). I don't want more adventures of charname, and I'm perfectly happy to take a game that follows the themes of the first game without desperately clinging to (or worse, undermining) those games.
The Bhaalspawn saga is over. Completely. Not only is it hundreds of years before Baldur's Gate III, Bhaal is back. His plan worked, because the 'official' narrative followed the books, then had a pen-and-paper module where the final bhaalspawns died and Bhaal's plan (finally) activated. Bhaal will pop in dialogue as an existing, worshipped god.
I'm okay with turn based combat because the realtime combat was great for the fights with popcorn enemies, however DnD was never designed around that and the game did suffer for it; too much happens too quickly, especially on higher difficulties and I routinely pause the game, issue orders and set things off for a few seconds. I understand if you wish it to be closer, however I prefer Baldur's Gate III's first act where things are -generally- fewer and deadlier. A more action orientated game could work, however that would require signficant reworks (such as in Sword Coast Legends) to work in the context of that game imo.
We know there's going to be more companions-Larian made a point that the... more 'morally challenged' npcs were going to be our company for the early access, fast travel is going to be in, most of your complaints will not be there for the first game. There are problems and only the most rose-tinted fanboy is going to say otherwise, but that's why the forum is here; cantrips leaving surfaces was removed due to feedback for example.
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: BG3 current situation - 01/01/21 09:21 AM
Originally Posted by DuskHorseman
So, you're saying that the game mechanics are somehow stupid or goofy? I don't understand why you would think that. I also didn't understand that was what you were getting at, it seemed as if you were claiming that the story varied wildly in tone, which it doesn't.

There's nothing too goofy about dipping imo, I think it's just sort of a catch-all in an attempt to show all the goofy combat shennanigans that any good DM would allow in actual, IRL, tabletop DnD.

I'm no proponent of eating to regain health either, but there's nothing that seems so ridiculous about doing it. It's been a thing in games for years. It's just, like... a thing. BG3 is four because that is the median party size in the reccomended size. It stands to reason that 4 is what was chosen.

And yes, BG3 is turn-based because DnD is turn based! That is absolutely correct!

Time does pass in BG3, just not in a day/night cycle. You travel around during the day, and take long rests when it gets dark.

Again, Dipping is sort of a catch-all for all of those DnD combat shenanigans that any good DM would allow.

Seriously ? Diping your sword on a candle or a torch without something to coat it ? Eating food during combats ? Really ? A DM ?

Some game mechanics are stupid and totally unrealistic even in the reality of the FR. And yes, the tone of the story / the world change a lot and is totally inconsistent.

The experience is a whole and combats are a part of the story you're writing and the adventure you're living in this world. Combats have to fit the story and the world in which they take place.

What would be your reaction if Aragorn started eating the head of a pig during a fight in the LOTR ? (Video game, Books, film, choose your medium)
Wouldn't it be ridiculous ?

Because BG3 is a video game, it has to be inconsistent and include silly things ?
It can, but it hasn't to... especially when the world and the rules are designed to create consistent fantasy stories (which doesn't mean humor and a few silly situations aren't allowed... we're not talking about exceptions).

When I'm playing a game in the FR, with the rules of D&D and with a serious story... I want to experience what could be written or played as a story.

I'm absolutely not against humor or a few silly situations (BG1/2 were full of it), but combats is a huge part of the game and with all these jumps, food, dipping, fire, magical items, (visual effects,)... They just look totally gamey, immersion breaking and very badly integrated to the story.

Keep in mind I'm talking about gameplay mechanics, not who we encounter and why. This is fine... but combats deserve adjustments to become credible.
Posted By: adkfina Re: BG3 current situation - 01/01/21 10:20 AM
Gale you're hurt! Here, eat this whole cheese wheel before they hack you to death you maniac!
Posted By: Mat22 Re: BG3 current situation - 01/01/21 11:00 AM
I trust In Larian and that they are listening to feedback on mechanics as disengage, food heals, jump, long rest etc. I think they know its important to satisfy also the more hardcore rpg fans like myself (bg3 is basically the flagship of dnd 5e).
They can introduce alternative game modes with tweaks to rules and keep people who just wants to enjoy the story. I think the game has great potential to turn out to be something great.
Posted By: mr_planescapist Re: BG3 current situation - 01/01/21 11:15 AM
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by DuskHorseman
So, you're saying that the game mechanics are somehow stupid or goofy? I don't understand why you would think that. I also didn't understand that was what you were getting at, it seemed as if you were claiming that the story varied wildly in tone, which it doesn't.

There's nothing too goofy about dipping imo, I think it's just sort of a catch-all in an attempt to show all the goofy combat shennanigans that any good DM would allow in actual, IRL, tabletop DnD.

I'm no proponent of eating to regain health either, but there's nothing that seems so ridiculous about doing it. It's been a thing in games for years. It's just, like... a thing. BG3 is four because that is the median party size in the reccomended size. It stands to reason that 4 is what was chosen.

And yes, BG3 is turn-based because DnD is turn based! That is absolutely correct!

Time does pass in BG3, just not in a day/night cycle. You travel around during the day, and take long rests when it gets dark.

Again, Dipping is sort of a catch-all for all of those DnD combat shenanigans that any good DM would allow.

Seriously ? Diping your sword on a candle or a torch without something to coat it ? Eating food during combats ? Really ? A DM ?

Some game mechanics are stupid and totally unrealistic even in the reality of the FR. And yes, the tone of the story / the world change a lot and is totally inconsistent.

The experience is a whole and combats are a part of the story you're writing and the adventure you're living in this world. Combats have to fit the story and the world in which they take place.

What would be your reaction if Aragorn started eating the head of a pig during a fight in the LOTR ? (Video game, Books, film, choose your medium)
Wouldn't it be ridiculous ?

Because BG3 is a video game, it has to be inconsistent and include silly things ?
It can, but it hasn't to... especially when the world and the rules are designed to create consistent fantasy stories (which doesn't mean humor and a few silly situations aren't allowed... we're not talking about exceptions).

When I'm playing a game in the FR, with the rules of D&D and with a serious story... I want to experience what could be written or played as a story.

I'm absolutely not against humor or a few silly situations (BG1/2 were full of it), but combats is a huge part of the game and with all these jumps, food, dipping, fire, magical items, (visual effects,)... They just look totally gamey, immersion breaking and very badly integrated to the story.

Keep in mind I'm talking about gameplay mechanics, not who we encounter and why. This is fine... but combats deserve adjustments to become credible.




I kind of like how Poe Deadfire dealt with that. When you start a new game you can have certain RPG hardcore modes turned on or off as challenges. Like having limited rests / no combat food. Or daily ability restrictions, or lighting impacting your viewing area a lot more etc...
Posted By: zyr1987 Re: BG3 current situation - 01/01/21 11:19 AM
Originally Posted by adkfina
Gale you're hurt! Here, eat this whole cheese wheel before they hack you to death you maniac!

[Linked Image from static.tvtropes.org]
Posted By: biomag Re: BG3 current situation - 01/01/21 11:20 AM
Having potential and being something are sadly very different things.. but I agree, a lot of the improvements this game needs to be more than a simple cheese-feast like DOS2 are very easy to implement and on top of that contrary to Larian's features tested for balance.

Willingness is the big issue here. If they really wanted they could have corrected already a lot of things because I serisouly doubt the code for AI action prioritisation is that hard to adjust once you go back to the action economy of D&D (which is mostly like a simple variable value change from using bonus actions to use full actions). But we will see. If it doesn't come in the next two updates than its most probably because Larian doesn't want to go back to the proper rules.

I honestly hope they will make the changes. I want this game to be a success not just because I paid the full price for it, but because I want to see Larian succeed. Still I think they have a lot of deep rooted design issues with their games where they fall short of expectations with little room for improvement as they stick by their philosophies from DOS2. BG3 should have been an attempt to do things differently and not constantly fall back to crutches from DOS when it comes to world design, encounter design and companions. As long as they are not willing to try something new there isn't much growth left.
Posted By: Sordak Re: BG3 current situation - 01/01/21 03:02 PM
so on one hand its a cheese fest on the other hand its too balanced?
wew lads, what is it now?

id point out that exactly this kind of wishy washy complaining led to barrels beeing nerfed

also about you casuals: if 5e, the braindead critical role insert wojak.ping here version of the game, is too complicated for you maybe RPGs arent for you.
i dont see why everyone else should suffer if you literaly cannot be arsed to read how the game works.

This isnt pathfinder kingmaker where the game throws a spide swarm at you within 5 minutes of playing that you literaly cannot beat (unless you read what the NPCs tell you, lets not kid ourseles)

If you realy are not smart enaugh to grasp spell points, play a fighter as they are literaly braindead, or wait till paladins are released so the only thing you need to keep track of is how many times you can smite people.
Posted By: Danielbda Re: BG3 current situation - 01/01/21 03:31 PM
Originally Posted by Sordak
if 5e, the braindead critical role insert wojak.ping here version of the game, is too complicated for you maybe RPGs arent for you.
Maybe this would be more impactful if BG3 actually followed 5e instead of being this DOS homebrew.
Posted By: Dexai Re: BG3 current situation - 01/01/21 04:53 PM
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
[quote=DuskHorseman]What would be your reaction if Aragorn started eating the head of a pig during a fight in the LOTR ? (Video game, Books, film, choose your medium)
Wouldn't it be ridiculous ?

I remember Boromir ate a few arrows during that one fight
Posted By: Icelyn Re: BG3 current situation - 01/01/21 04:54 PM
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
I kind of like how Poe Deadfire dealt with that. When you start a new game you can have certain RPG hardcore modes turned on or off as challenges. Like having limited rests / no combat food. Or daily ability restrictions, or lighting impacting your viewing area a lot more etc...
This sounds perfect to me. I like having unlimited rests but others hate it. This way everyone can select what they like.
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: BG3 current situation - 01/01/21 05:08 PM
Originally Posted by Icelyn
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
I kind of like how Poe Deadfire dealt with that. When you start a new game you can have certain RPG hardcore modes turned on or off as challenges. Like having limited rests / no combat food. Or daily ability restrictions, or lighting impacting your viewing area a lot more etc...
This sounds perfect to me. I like having unlimited rests but others hate it. This way everyone can select what they like.

I'm not sure people don't like having unlimited rests.

The problem is that at the moment, resting has no cost and/or no consequences.
(i.e specific ration consumption, the possibility of a random encounter during the travel to the camp, the need to find a specific spot, the risks of respawn or to be surprised while sleeping in a dungeon,...)

2 free HP potions per day and per character would nearly be the same than actual short rests.

Limited short rest is just a bandage on a broken mechanic... Which is better than nothing but it still hurt.
I guess that's what many of us think if I trust what I read everywhere players give feedbacks about the game.
Posted By: Nyloth Re: BG3 current situation - 02/01/21 05:45 AM
Originally Posted by Baldurs-Gate-Fan
Originally Posted by Clawfoot
I've been disappointed. The atmosphere/vibe of the game feels wrong. Larian made it too much like Divinity with non-stop comedy and campiness. The NPCs behave like they're in a movie that deliberately cast the very worst actors in the industry, with acting so cringeworthy and hammy that it's painful to watch. While the original BG series had room for comic relief and over-the-topness, this game seems to have almost nothing other than that. Everything is cranked up to 11, nothing is down to earth. Every part of BG3 comes off like it was designed by someone whose main goal was to make things as extreme and unusual as possible. I really prefer my fantasy settings to be tempered against a backdrop of realism, and BG3 utterly fails to be a believable experience. It ruins any chance of immersion for me.

And then it's just too similar to D:OS in all aspects. It feels like playing a D&D mod for D:OS2. The looks, the controls, the playstyle, the way you interact with the gameplay environment; Larian really didn't do enough to make the game feel different. Imagine if Bethesda had made Cyberpunk2077 and it was literally just Skyrim set in Night City, with Skyrim controls and mechanics and everything. Disappointing, to say the least.

Finally, the combat is terrible. Just profoundly unenjoyable. Part of that comes down to the fact that 5e is a tabletop game that translates inelegantly into a turn-based video game experience, but Larian could have alleviated that somewhat by not restricting the party size to four. With just four party members, the player just doesn't get to do enough during fights. Often you sit there for minutes waiting for a turn, and then you get to do one thing with one character and it's time to wait again. I believe Larian will heavily tone down the mindboggingly terrible "elemental surfaces" stuff in time for release, so that's not something I'm too worried about, but combat as a whole is so clunky and boring.



So true and has been said over and over and over again. Yet larian doesnt even comment on most of the critics and avoids any participation on a dialog on this matter.

I mean yes. maybe cuz so many ppl think it's fine and game still looks cool. lol Right now game have mostly positive reviews
Posted By: Danielbda Re: BG3 current situation - 02/01/21 02:22 PM
Originally Posted by Nyloth
I mean yes. maybe cuz so many ppl think it's fine and game still looks cool. lol Right now game have mostly positive reviews
Is "mostly positive reviews" enough for a mainline BG game though?
Considering the legacy this game inherited when they chose this title, anything below widespread critical acclaim and consensual game of the year would be a disaster.
Have you ever seen a Zelda game with "mostly positive reviews"?
Posted By: biomag Re: BG3 current situation - 02/01/21 03:40 PM
EA reviews are not reliable in any direction. You have people that forgive everything because its EA and everything will be fixed as well as people saying 'OMG THERE ARE BUGS, I WANT REFUNDDDSS!!!'... so I wouldn't take them at face value and not really worry about them 'if they are mostly positive' or what 'score' they have.

Question is though what Larian will take note of and here I'm afraid its going to be mainly gathered statistics instead of dealing with the feedback that's worded. Because its faster and people like to look at numbers as 'facts' for their own opinions...
Posted By: Tarorn Re: BG3 current situation - 02/01/21 06:47 PM
Cheese fest ? - I wonder if a lot of players who use this term use this play style because they cannot beat the encounters without resorting to it.
Because certain mechanics are available doesn’t mean you have to use them.
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: BG3 current situation - 02/01/21 06:53 PM
Originally Posted by Tarorn
Cheese fest ? - I wonder if a lot of players who use this term use this play style because they cannot beat the encounters without resorting to it.
Because certain mechanics are available doesn’t mean you have to use them.

The game is very hard and frustrating for a normal game mode if you don't use backstab, highground advantages and jump.
If you use them it become easy.
If you add barrelmancy, poison, dipping, eating each turn, shove,... It become very easy.

You should try different playthrough and different mechanics limitation to understand how the game difficulty is(n't) balanced.
Everything is made arround Larian's homebrew.
Posted By: spectralhunter Re: BG3 current situation - 02/01/21 07:11 PM
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Tarorn
Cheese fest ? - I wonder if a lot of players who use this term use this play style because they cannot beat the encounters without resorting to it.
Because certain mechanics are available doesn’t mean you have to use them.

The game is very hard and frustrating for a normal game mode if you don't use backstab, highground advantages and jump.
If you use them it become easy.
If you use barrelmancy, poison, dipping, eating each turn, shove,... It become very easy.

You should try different playthrough and different mechanics limitation to understand how the game difficulty is(n't) balanced.
Everything is made arround Larian's homebrew.

This is true. Larian expects you to use their special mechanics to win (imo-cheese). If you try to stick with 5e rules, you are handicapping yourself, especially since the monsters use Larian mechanics to the fullest.
Posted By: fallenj Re: BG3 current situation - 02/01/21 07:54 PM
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Tarorn
Cheese fest ? - I wonder if a lot of players who use this term use this play style because they cannot beat the encounters without resorting to it.
Because certain mechanics are available doesn’t mean you have to use them.

The game is very hard and frustrating for a normal game mode if you don't use backstab, highground advantages and jump.
If you use them it become easy.
If you use barrelmancy, poison, dipping, eating each turn, shove,... It become very easy.

You should try different playthrough and different mechanics limitation to understand how the game difficulty is(n't) balanced.
Everything is made arround Larian's homebrew.

This is true. Larian expects you to use their special mechanics to win (imo-cheese). If you try to stick with 5e rules, you are handicapping yourself, especially since the monsters use Larian mechanics to the fullest.

Several of the "special mechanics" are 5e already, Coating your weapon with poison is the same mechanic as dipping your weapon in fire but gives the player more versatility to overcome damage reduction (if DR is even a thing anymore). Backstab is a buffed version of flanking, during a flank with two characters vs one they would be considered flatfooted and rogues would gain sneak attack.

Height advantage, explosive barrels, etc. sure you got me on that. There's a huge thread already on height advantage and barrelmancy has been nerfed already along with basic spell's doing additional floor effects.

There is actually a big problem with 5e rules where it is way to easy to break a spell that requires concentration. There is no concentration skill nor is feats as frequent as they used to be in 3.5 or pathfinder. Which both would buff the ability to stay focused on the spell while in battle. With the lackluster focus on concentration in the rules, those spells become more of a waste of time and unnecessary feature.
Posted By: spectralhunter Re: BG3 current situation - 02/01/21 08:14 PM
Originally Posted by fallenj
Several of the "special mechanics" are 5e already, Coating your weapon with poison is the same mechanic as dipping your weapon in fire but gives the player more versatility to overcome damage reduction (if DR is even a thing anymore). Backstab is a buffed version of flanking, during a flank with two characters vs one they would be considered flatfooted and rogues would gain sneak attack.

Height advantage, explosive barrels, etc. sure you got me on that. There's a huge thread already on height advantage and barrelmancy has been nerfed already along with basic spell's doing additional floor effects.

There is actually a big problem with 5e rules where it is way to easy to break a spell that requires concentration. There is no concentration skill nor is feats as frequent as they used to be in 3.5 or pathfinder. Which both would buff the ability to stay focused on the spell while in battle. With the lackluster focus on concentration in the rules, those spells become more of a waste of time and unnecessary feature.

It takes a full action to coat a weapon. BG3 you can dip and attack in the same turn.

The variant flanking rule requires two characters in opposite sides. In BG3 you just need to move behind them. No other character needed.

Ground effects are still plentiful with special arrows available everywhere. Special arrows already do additional damage, they don’t need to have more effects.

Concentration is a balance against OP spells. I won’t say it’s perfect but it’s not as broken as you say. Otherwise we go back to old editions where the party has half a dozen buffs before engaging.
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: BG3 current situation - 02/01/21 08:22 PM
Originally Posted by fallenj
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Tarorn
Cheese fest ? - I wonder if a lot of players who use this term use this play style because they cannot beat the encounters without resorting to it.
Because certain mechanics are available doesn’t mean you have to use them.

The game is very hard and frustrating for a normal game mode if you don't use backstab, highground advantages and jump.
If you use them it become easy.
If you use barrelmancy, poison, dipping, eating each turn, shove,... It become very easy.

You should try different playthrough and different mechanics limitation to understand how the game difficulty is(n't) balanced.
Everything is made arround Larian's homebrew.

This is true. Larian expects you to use their special mechanics to win (imo-cheese). If you try to stick with 5e rules, you are handicapping yourself, especially since the monsters use Larian mechanics to the fullest.

Several of the "special mechanics" are 5e already, Coating your weapon with poison is the same mechanic as dipping your weapon in fire but gives the player more versatility to overcome damage reduction (if DR is even a thing anymore). Backstab is a buffed version of flanking, during a flank with two characters vs one they would be considered flatfooted and rogues would gain sneak attack.

Height advantage, explosive barrels, etc. sure you got me on that. There's a huge thread already on height advantage and barrelmancy has been nerfed already along with basic spell's doing additional floor effects.

There is actually a big problem with 5e rules where it is way to easy to break a spell that requires concentration. There is no concentration skill nor is feats as frequent as they used to be in 3.5 or pathfinder. Which both would buff the ability to stay focused on the spell while in battle. With the lackluster focus on concentration in the rules, those spells become more of a waste of time and unnecessary feature.

I can't agree with that.

Coating your weapon with poison is fine... But a+ 5D6 poison at level 4 is not to me. In my opinion the poison should add 1D4 or something like that and the 5D6 poison should be something we find maximum once or twice during the game (the kind of item you never use except maybe when you fight the final boss).
Coating your weapon with poison should also cost an action or a bonus action.

Dipping doesn't include any coating.
Dipping should be fine, but if you had to coat your weapon with a "rare" item (maybe not rare but expensive, I don't know but we shouldn't be able to use this so easily everytime).
Coating in combats should at least cost a bonus action and dipping an action so you can use your full turn to do it.
Damages are fine to me and aren't OP. The way you can have those additionnal damages is.
This would also give a utility to a real and normal fire sword (which is not "+1D4 damage + if you're standing on fire you deal another +1D6 damages or another shit like that)

Backstab is absolutely not a "buff".
Backstab is nearly a free advantage while you need to create specific conditions to flank.
I'll be so glad they remove their custom backstab to add the optional flanking rules. This would greatly increase the synergy between characters and the usefulness of melee characters.

High ground bonus wouldn't be a problem to me if it was a reasonable bonus. A +1 bonus allow us to control our %to hit a little bit more and increase the value of good positions. Advantages for highground bonus is way too much, break the rules of D&D (see the topic you're talking about) and totally determine the way combats happen.

About concentration it shouldn't be hard to find an easy mechanic to improve 5e.
In exemple a saving throw with a higher DD (not sure how it work in BG3, it doesn't appear in the log).

I guess there are many place in D&D for custom additionnal rules but they have to be balanced arround everything else. At the moment everything Larian choose to add is way too powerfull and every encounter are defined by those few mechanics.
Posted By: fallenj Re: BG3 current situation - 02/01/21 08:46 PM
@Shunter
Interesting if it takes a full action to coat your weapon with poison, whats the action in BG3 to actually coat your weapon. Yes flanking requires two people, why I said it was a buffed version, since it still requires you to be behind the person minus your ally on the opposite side.

I put etc. in cause I didn't want to list all the stupid junk I couldn't remember off the top of my head, example arrow effects.

Concentration is broken, when you cast a spell that requires concentration and lose it the next round from random crap more times than you don't it becomes a waste of time and space. Especially when some spells don't require a DC check and you just lose.

Older editions yes had tons of buffs, Morale, dodge, basic, enhancement, etc. Some came from magic weapons, some came from barbarians screaming in battle, others were naturally gifted / trained. Where is this coming from? What I was talking about was concentration not the amount of spells you can have active at one time.....

@Max I looked up poisons a while back they only go up along with price. So a 5d6 would be expensive as hell. Been a while though, I'd have to relook it up to actually get the info. An ya, dipping doesn't include coating but they generally are one and the same. At least if you take a step back and look at the feature, they work the same giving a small additional damage bonus with DR bypass. I have no clue if both can be applied at the same time but I would imagine no.

Already resaid what I thought on backstab above.

I really don't want to get into the additional features like height advantage, there is a thread on that already.
Posted By: Tarorn Re: BG3 current situation - 02/01/21 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Tarorn
Cheese fest ? - I wonder if a lot of players who use this term use this play style because they cannot beat the encounters without resorting to it.
Because certain mechanics are available doesn’t mean you have to use them.

The game is very hard and frustrating for a normal game mode if you don't use backstab, highground advantages and jump.
If you use them it become easy.
If you add barrelmancy, poison, dipping, eating each turn, shove,... It become very easy.

You should try different playthrough and different mechanics limitation to understand how the game difficulty is(n't) balanced.
Everything is made arround Larian's homebrew.

Im 104 hours in at this stage - I agree some encounters are very challenging but thats what makes it so enjoyable, a sense of achievement - I tend to use as little Larian rules as possible but I do use the jump to get out of attacks of opportunity in a tight spot, dont use barrelmancy at all (apart from shooting the wrong one & blowing myself to pieces) . I use highground when it makes sense & I dont long rest pretty much until im out of options.

But thats just me playing it how I want to & I do believe some of the tougher encounters may be different by the full release of the game i.e you can be past level 4 potentially for these areas - or we may have to live with the Larian game design & play it how you best enjoy it - the more I play it the more you can see Larian trying to get this to appeal to a wide audience & from a financial & sales success perspective thats a smart move. Do I want to see it watered down so far it dont feel like D&D?.... certainly not but currently it has a huge D&D vibe for me.
Posted By: Moxus Re: BG3 current situation - 02/01/21 09:42 PM
Joined here just to add my 2 cents. As a huge fan of BG2, I don't see how BG3 could live up to the hype. From the moment of early announcement, I pretty much knew that this project would be more of a DOS continuation. BG2 set a very unique mark back 20 years ago. To expect this level of depth, character class system, lore, combat system, loot system, story, music, atmosphere, in a modern game? You must be kidding me. DOS games are ok as a separate breed and I have plenty of friends who liked the series. But I'm yet to see a single person with a genuine addiction to replay the game several times. What I'm seeing today pretty much confirms my suspicions. BG3 is just another DOS remake with some features added/removed. What really annoys me is that this is going to taint the very name of Baldur's Gate. Similar to Diablo 3 vs Diablo 2. Why couldn't they just come up with a different title, unrelated to BG? Is it always all about money? Or just add some new names to the hall of fame created by talented people long gone?

BG2 is a masterpiece

BG3 is just another game, one of many decent DnD attempts - IceWind Dale, NeverWinter Nights, Dragon Age. You can inflate its scores to 95% on steam, but you can't make it a masterpiece. Certainly not worth 80$ in my opinion. I'd much rather replay NVN at this point.

But if, once fully refined and polished, it changes to the point of challenging the best games of its genre - I might rethink my view. Been waiting for 20+ years to see a true BG2 evolution. Still waiting.
Posted By: Danielbda Re: BG3 current situation - 02/01/21 10:22 PM
Originally Posted by fallenj
There is actually a big problem with 5e rules where it is way to easy to break a spell that requires concentration. There is no concentration skill nor is feats as frequent as they used to be in 3.5 or pathfinder. Which both would buff the ability to stay focused on the spell while in battle. With the lackluster focus on concentration in the rules, those spells become more of a waste of time and unnecessary feature.
There is actually a feat that gives advantage on saving throws to maintain concentration called War Caster. I'd say it should be implemented on a full release, but at this point I don't know if some feats will be left out on purpose.
Posted By: fallenj Re: BG3 current situation - 03/01/21 07:07 PM
If that's true, it would generally fix the problem. Guess it depends on level and implementation.
Posted By: KillerRabbit Re: BG3 current situation - 03/01/21 08:14 PM
Yeah, Solasta has implemented this pretty well. They've implemented the "shield spell as reaction" rule and implemented a Solasta version of war caster feat which allows you to take 10 hp of damage before having to make a concentration check so you get two chances to maintain concentration even before a check. My mage kept concentration even when being level drained by a vampire.

Also when BG3 allows us to roll for our stats, lots of us will have casters with insanely high constitution wink
Posted By: Clawfoot Re: BG3 current situation - 04/01/21 12:37 PM
Originally Posted by fallenj
Concentration is broken, when you cast a spell that requires concentration and lose it the next round from random crap more times than you don't it becomes a waste of time and space. Especially when some spells don't require a DC check and you just lose.

It's particularly bad in BG3 because there's so much incidental damage. Five seconds into every fight, the whole world is on fire. In tabletop, you mostly just take damage if something actually swings at you or directs a spell at you. In this game, you're often taking ticks of environmental damage literally every turn of every fight unless you spend fully half of your action economy getting out of ground effects. This is one of the million ways in which BG3 feels just like Divinity and not at all like BG/D&D. Just like in Divinity, combat is often an annoying lightshow of random shit happening all over the place, except to make it even worse, you mostly just have one and a half action per turn and can't afford to spend them on countering the ridiculous battlefield clutter.

In Divinity, at least you had two or three actions per turn, or even more with certain builds, and it made more sense to devote some of your actions to putting out fires or teleporting away or whatever. Not that BG3 should break the 5e action economy, but Larian should have designed the fights and gameplay environment to accomodate it. Instead they literally just made Divinity with D&D mathematics under the hood, which is such a massive disappointment. I'm starting to think tiefling is the best race for everything just because of the fire resistance...

There are so many fights in this game that pretty much go like this:

Enemy shoots a fire arrow/grenade/whatever at you, covering the entire party.

You move out of the way so you aren't literally standing inside of a fire.

Enemy shoots another fire arrow at your new location, adding more fire.

You move away again. Half the battlefield is now a smoky blaze.

Whaddayaknow, the enemy shoots ANOTHER fire arrow at you and...

It's just such awful, brainless, uncreative design. It isn't fun, it isn't good gameplay, it isn't a meaningful challenge, it's just a game that trolls the player and is annoying on purpose. It's like Larian's idea of encounter design is to just make combat as irritating as possible, just as their idea of storytelling is to make everything as silly and camp as possible. It's what made the Divinity series unenjoyable for me, and while I had hoped that they would steer away from that when they moved to a different franchise, they proved to me that they don't know any other way to do it. What I had thought was a quirk of the Divinity series was in fact just the only way Larian knows how to design games. There's none of the suspense of BG combat, none of the believable environments, just cartoon gameplay and troll design.
Posted By: Dexai Re: BG3 current situation - 04/01/21 01:36 PM
Have you played the latest patch, Clawfoot? I only tested it a little bit myself, I'm currently waiting for new classes and whatnot to be added before I make another deep playthrough, but what I want to say is, when I tested the freshest version the environmental/surface damage seemed to have been diminished a bunch.
Posted By: DuskHorseman Re: BG3 current situation - 04/01/21 01:48 PM
Originally Posted by Dexai
Have you played the latest patch, Clawfoot? I only tested it a little bit myself, I'm currently waiting for new classes and whatnot to be added before I make another deep playthrough, but what I want to say is, when I tested the freshest version the environmental/surface damage seemed to have been diminished a bunch.
Yeah, I noticed this too. I think they only deal damage when you walk into them/start your turn there/end your turn there now, which has severely decreased the amount of damage they do.
Posted By: Sharet Re: BG3 current situation - 06/01/21 01:16 PM
I think people just like to complain. The game is good, I too would like a more close implementation of 5e ruleset instead of a DOS mashup but with patch3 the devs showed their willingness to change things (they already removed tons of DOS surface effects).
So yes, the game is good. It could be better, like any game, but it's good, and it's fun.
I'm sure at the end of the development process it will be a pearl.
Posted By: DuskHorseman Re: BG3 current situation - 06/01/21 01:28 PM
Originally Posted by Sharet
I think people just like to complain. The game is good, I too would like a more close implementation of 5e ruleset instead of a DOS mashup but with patch3 the devs showed their willingness to change things (they already removed tons of DOS surface effects).
So yes, the game it's good. It could be better, like any game, but it's good, and it's fun.
I'm sure at the end of the development process it will be a pearl.
I always appreciate seeing some positivity on these forums. Thank you.
Posted By: fylimar Re: BG3 current situation - 06/01/21 01:37 PM
I agree, the game is good. I'm enjoying it a lot. Of course, there is always room for improvement, but I'm really glad, I buyed it.
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: BG3 current situation - 06/01/21 03:04 PM
Originally Posted by Sharet
I think people just like to complain. The game is good, I too would like a more close implementation of 5e ruleset instead of a DOS mashup but with patch3 the devs showed their willingness to change things (they already removed tons of DOS surface effects).
So yes, the game it's good. It could be better, like any game, but it's good, and it's fun.
I'm sure at the end of the development process it will be a pearl.

I agree with your last sentence but not with all the message...
I don't find the game "good"or "fun" at the moment, especially if we're talking about combats (which is very important to me).

It has an incredible potential but combats are bad and absolutely not "strategy" to me (steam say "strategy").
If the strategy is always the same I don't call this a good strategy game.

+ I'm not very fun... Throwing fork and jumping everywhere don't make me laugh a lot...
Posted By: KillerRabbit Re: BG3 current situation - 06/01/21 04:30 PM
Originally Posted by Sharet
I think people just like to complain. The game is good, I too would like a more close implementation of 5e ruleset instead of a DOS mashup but with patch3 the devs showed their willingness to change things (they already removed tons of DOS surface effects).
So yes, the game it's good. It could be better, like any game, but it's good, and it's fun.
I'm sure at the end of the development process it will be a pearl.

Yes to all that. Like @flyimar I'm happy I bought it. But I'm also happy that Maximuus is relentless in his push to get 5th rules in the game. The devs listened and the feedback worked.

Oh and I really like being able to throw a fork. Seriously. Makes it feel like tabletop.
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: BG3 current situation - 06/01/21 10:43 PM
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Originally Posted by Sharet
I think people just like to complain. The game is good, I too would like a more close implementation of 5e ruleset instead of a DOS mashup but with patch3 the devs showed their willingness to change things (they already removed tons of DOS surface effects).
So yes, the game it's good. It could be better, like any game, but it's good, and it's fun.
I'm sure at the end of the development process it will be a pearl.

Yes to all that. Like @flyimar I'm happy I bought it. But I'm also happy that Maximuus is relentless in his push to get 5th rules in the game. The devs listened and the feedback worked.

Oh and I really like being able to throw a fork. Seriously. Makes it feel like tabletop.

This is not TT. This is a video game grin

I want more D&D in combats for a better strategy vidéo game but I don't want a TT simulator.

I.E I'll be so glad if they choose to remove (or give us an option to) those terrible, slow, intrusive, immersion breaking dice rolls during dialogs^^
I'm fine with throwing forks if you like it... Even if I guess u never use such things in... A video game...
Posted By: KillerRabbit Re: BG3 current situation - 07/01/21 12:23 AM
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
I'm fine with throwing forks if you like it... Even if I guess u never use such things in... A video game...

Thanks smile There are things I prefer about Solasta and things I prefer about BG. One of the things I like about BG is the art and how interactive the environments are. In Ethel's the frog tea pot can picked up and it's either charming or terrifying depending on your interpretation of her and it. Not to bash on Solasta -- at all -- but when there are only one or two things on a map to interact with it lowers the immersion value of the game.
Posted By: Nyloth Re: BG3 current situation - 07/01/21 03:27 AM
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Originally Posted by Sharet
I think people just like to complain. The game is good, I too would like a more close implementation of 5e ruleset instead of a DOS mashup but with patch3 the devs showed their willingness to change things (they already removed tons of DOS surface effects).
So yes, the game it's good. It could be better, like any game, but it's good, and it's fun.
I'm sure at the end of the development process it will be a pearl.

Yes to all that. Like @flyimar I'm happy I bought it. But I'm also happy that Maximuus is relentless in his push to get 5th rules in the game. The devs listened and the feedback worked.

Oh and I really like being able to throw a fork. Seriously. Makes it feel like tabletop.

Complaints should have a limit, there are people who will always be dissatisfied.
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: BG3 current situation - 07/01/21 07:48 AM
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
but when there are only one or two things on a map to interact with it lowers the immersion value of the game.

Yeah I agree with that.
Interractions with items and so on are great.

I find it a bit tedious at the moment because there are too many empty things to open and because the UI is really ugly when you "highlight" 10 items on a table at the same time.

But this is things that could easily be improved.

In exemple, it could be cool to highlight all full containers and not empty one.... (even if you can interract with all of them)
It could be usefull to "write the name" of potions and other usefull items but just highlight forks, knife and "decorative" items you can take.
The description of items could also help us to understand what is usefull for the game and what is there for immersion ("décorative item", "misc. item", a specific color in the description popup,...).

To summarize I have 3 "problems" related to items/containers :
- I spend more time than I should opening empty containers
- Inventory management is tedious and the understanding of items is hard (especially at the beginning)
- The UI is a mess when there are too many items to highlight (text when there's many items close to each others)

But I share your tought. Solasta doesn't have enough items to interract with. At the moment and according to me, BG3 has too many that doesn't increase the gameplay value... Nor MY immersion.
At the moment those items/containers have a "bad" impact on my experience (this is not a deal breaker of course).

I think such a game should only have items whose utility (or not) is obvious.
But different people have different opinions.
Posted By: Stikyard Re: BG3 current situation - 07/01/21 07:56 AM
Baldurs Gate had a Day / Night cycle on original release back in 1998.

Larian couldn't pull it off in 2020.
Posted By: dilldappel Re: BG3 current situation - 07/01/21 10:15 AM
BG 3 feels for me out of balanced. Maybe the Level cap, maybe the leak of races. That's will be finally clear, when it's comes to the final release. Year sure, it's early access. But also I'm missing a lot of communication from the side of Larian. For my understanding, EA is primarily for testing, not for the playing. But what would now new implemented or for what they're working for in the EA Release, it's always not so clear. With the hotfixes there come some Patch notes, but me I would prefer, to know before at what Working Larian actually. I had to pay €60 (like $65) and make me nervous, not to know what happened.
Posted By: Sharet Re: BG3 current situation - 07/01/21 12:02 PM
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Sharet
I think people just like to complain. The game is good, I too would like a more close implementation of 5e ruleset instead of a DOS mashup but with patch3 the devs showed their willingness to change things (they already removed tons of DOS surface effects).
So yes, the game it's good. It could be better, like any game, but it's good, and it's fun.
I'm sure at the end of the development process it will be a pearl.

I agree with your last sentence but not with all the message...
I don't find the game "good"or "fun" at the moment, especially if we're talking about combats (which is very important to me).

It has an incredible potential but combats are bad and absolutely not "strategy" to me (steam say "strategy").
If the strategy is always the same I don't call this a good strategy game.

+ I'm not very fun... Throwing fork and jumping everywhere don't make me laugh a lot...


Idk man, I think you are focussing too much on the combat. It's important of course, one of the most important things, but this is an RPG, not an X-com like strategy game. I think it is unfair to say the game isn't fun because you find the combat repetitive and don't take into account all the roleplaying aspects of it.
Yes, the combat has currently some exploits which need to be addressed (jump nonsense), and they will, but in general I think is all well and good for a party of lv4 characters. Most of the combat options for each class open up from lv5 and beyond, it's normal that, at the moment, some encounters are going to be repetitive.
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: BG3 current situation - 08/01/21 06:12 AM
Originally Posted by Sharet
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Sharet
I think people just like to complain. The game is good, I too would like a more close implementation of 5e ruleset instead of a DOS mashup but with patch3 the devs showed their willingness to change things (they already removed tons of DOS surface effects).
So yes, the game it's good. It could be better, like any game, but it's good, and it's fun.
I'm sure at the end of the development process it will be a pearl.

I agree with your last sentence but not with all the message...
I don't find the game "good"or "fun" at the moment, especially if we're talking about combats (which is very important to me).

It has an incredible potential but combats are bad and absolutely not "strategy" to me (steam say "strategy").
If the strategy is always the same I don't call this a good strategy game.

+ I'm not very fun... Throwing fork and jumping everywhere don't make me laugh a lot...


Idk man, I think you are focussing too much on the combat. It's important of course, one of the most important things, but this is an RPG, not an X-com like strategy game. I think it is unfair to say the game isn't fun because you find the combat repetitive and don't take into account all the roleplaying aspects of it.
Yes, the combat has currently some exploits which need to be addressed (jump nonsense), and they will, but in general I think is all well and good for a party of lv4 characters. Most of the combat options for each class open up from lv5 and beyond, it's normal that, at the moment, some encounters are going to be repetitive.

Combats are going to be repetitive at all levels with Larian's custom rules.

We'll still have to take advantage from highground for ranged.
We'll still have to take advantage from backstab for melee.
We'll still jump to disengage (and backstab)

Many D&D features and spells will still be useless and the difficulty will still be balanced arround the few OP custom mechanics.

Lvl 5+ is probably going to be worse if they don't go back and start trusting D&D a bit more. At the moment the difficulty level is a joke and it's gonna be hard to do something consistent when we'll cross the gap at lvl 5.

So yeah many things are good (graphics, animations, exploration or quests "paths",...) and many other are not finished... but combats, action economy and ressources management is the main feature we have to test in this EA after the first playtrough.
Posted By: daMichi Re: BG3 current situation - 08/01/21 10:05 AM
I have to admit I am also rather pessimistic.

What was stated in an interview regarding e.g. the spell 'Bless' it seems to me that Larian will hold in to their current design philosophy.

We will get higher levels with more powerfull spells, then they will not be used that much, because it's far easier to get similiar effects by just running around an enemy.
Then Larian wants to change these spells to make them more appealing, and in the end we get something that ist a DnD game only by name and nothing else.

I sure hope I am wrong, though.
Posted By: Drath Malorn Re: BG3 current situation - 08/01/21 02:34 PM
Originally Posted by daMichi
What was stated in an interview regarding e.g. the spell 'Bless' it seems to me that Larian will hold in to their current design philosophy.

Oh ?! Can someone give me a link to that interview ?

The Bless spell is one the major offenders, as far as my problems with the current spells go. So I'd very much want to read whatever anyone at Larian said about this spell.
Posted By: Dexai Re: BG3 current situation - 08/01/21 03:32 PM
Originally Posted by Drath Malorn
Originally Posted by daMichi
What was stated in an interview regarding e.g. the spell 'Bless' it seems to me that Larian will hold in to their current design philosophy.

Oh ?! Can someone give me a link to that interview ?

The Bless spell is one the major offenders, as far as my problems with the current spells go. So I'd very much want to read whatever anyone at Larian said about this spell.

I think it's from this magazine.

An excerpt of it was posted on the Beamdog forums containing comments about Bless.

"You’ve opted for Early Access, which has served you well in the past – what’s EA’s appeal?

There are several. The feedback is superimportant – we learned that when we released the first Original Sin. We released via Early Access on that partially to get money right in the middle of production. [And it’s not even like] we didn’t say this in public. You do Early Access to get another boost of money – it’s not a lot, but it will help. Then, instead of your QA team and designers, you have thousands of people playing your game and they have a lot of opinions. If two people give you a certain opinion, that’s OK, but if thousands of people have the same opinion then you probably need to listen to them and you probably need to change it around.

During Early Access, we also get a lot of anonymous data – it tells us where people are dying, or where they’re levelling up, or what weapon they picked up and equipped, and so on, so we gain a lot of insight into what people are experiencing, and we learn from that and change the game, the rules, the balancing. It allows us to make the game a lot better by the time it releases because you have thousands of people playing it, and that gives you a lot of statistics to work with.

This also goes back to when we first worked on Divine Divinity and Beyond Divinity – we had a very active forum on Larian. com, and we had a small, vocal fan base. They were constantly giving us feedback and ideas, and when I think back on those days, what we’re now doing in Early Access is similar, only a thousand times bigger. We’re getting a lot of feedback and a lot of ideas now.

One thing that we learned from the statistics is that people are completely uninterested in a lot of buffing and debuffing spells – we have stats where you can see how many people are using what spell and how often they’re using it, and that made us realise every magic spell that we put in an RPG needs to have this ‘oomph’ factor.

You have to want to click it, or you’ll never click it. You cannot sell a bless spell to people. It’s boring. They don’t care – they want to see fireworks, they want to see damage. If you talk to someone about balancing in the Original Sin games, they’ll say the buffing and debuffing is overpowered, but we make it overpowered on purpose because otherwise people are not going to click it.

We make them want to click it. We keep on changing the description and the balance until we see in the statistics that usage of that particular spell is going up. So yeah, we really learn a lot of our own game by
putting it in Early Access
.
Posted By: spectralhunter Re: BG3 current situation - 08/01/21 03:47 PM
Originally Posted by daMichi
I have to admit I am also rather pessimistic.

What was stated in an interview regarding e.g. the spell 'Bless' it seems to me that Larian will hold in to their current design philosophy.

We will get higher levels with more powerfull spells, then they will not be used that much, because it's far easier to get similiar effects by just running around an enemy.
Then Larian wants to change these spells to make them more appealing, and in the end we get something that ist a DnD game only by name and nothing else.

I sure hope I am wrong, though.

So am I reading that Larian thinks Bless is unnecessary because they notice people don’t use it? Is it perhaps the game has so many broken balance issues that you don’t need to use it? Why waste a spell for bonuses when you can easily gain advantage anytime?

So the solution is to make Bless more OP? Not try to balance combat?

That’s a huge problem. They should have built around 5e and made small changes. Instead they built around DOS and made small 5e changes.
Posted By: Dexai Re: BG3 current situation - 08/01/21 03:58 PM
I made sort of the same observation back in the thread I linked, so I'm not going to make it again. But yes, it seems like that.
Posted By: daMichi Re: BG3 current situation - 08/01/21 04:18 PM
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by daMichi
I have to admit I am also rather pessimistic.

What was stated in an interview regarding e.g. the spell 'Bless' it seems to me that Larian will hold in to their current design philosophy.

We will get higher levels with more powerfull spells, then they will not be used that much, because it's far easier to get similiar effects by just running around an enemy.
Then Larian wants to change these spells to make them more appealing, and in the end we get something that ist a DnD game only by name and nothing else.

I sure hope I am wrong, though.

So am I reading that Larian thinks Bless is unnecessary because they notice people don’t use it? Is it perhaps the game has so many broken balance issues that you don’t need to use it? Why waste a spell for bonuses when you can easily gain advantage anytime?

So the solution is to make Bless more OP? Not try to balance combat?

That’s a huge problem. They should have built around 5e and made small changes. Instead they built around DOS and made small 5e changes.

Yes, that's exactly what they did, because it seems that they think that DnD 5e mechanics are inherently boring and need to be more flashy, at least that's what's coming across in various interviews.

It's their game and their decisions, we can can only voice our wishes to make it more like DnD, and hope we will be heard.
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: BG3 current situation - 08/01/21 05:39 PM
Originally Posted by Dexai
I made sort of the same observation back in the thread I linked, so I'm not going to make it again. But yes, it seems like that.

Don't know if you read that interview before giving your opinion about "numbers and statistic" but it looks you were right.

That's a shame... People like flashy things in their game because that's the only things they're doing well...

Do these guys play other RPG than theirs ?
Of course people won't use buffs if they're useless...

That's another reasons why they should more stick to D&D.
Same about many others spells that don't require concentration... If spells lasts for 2 rounds instead of 10... Why would we use them ?(in D&D 1 minute = 10 rounds = 10 Times everyone's turn)
Posted By: Merlex Re: BG3 current situation - 08/01/21 05:49 PM
Originally Posted by Dexai
Originally Posted by Drath Malorn
[quote=daMichi]What was stated in an interview regarding e.g. the spell 'Bless' it seems to me that Larian will hold in to their current design philosophy.

Oh ?! Can someone give me a link to that interview ?

The Bless spell is one the major offenders, as far as my problems with the current spells go. ...

One thing that we learned from the statistics is that people are completely uninterested in a lot of buffing and debuffing spells – we have stats where you can see how many people are using what spell and how often they’re using it, and that made us realise every magic spell that we put in an RPG needs to have this ‘oomph’ factor.

You have to want to click it, or you’ll never click it. You cannot sell a bless spell to people. It’s boring. They don’t care – they want to see fireworks, they want to see damage. If you talk to someone about balancing in the Original Sin games, they’ll say the buffing and debuffing is overpowered, but we make it overpowered on purpose because otherwise people are not going to click it.

We make them want to click it. We keep on changing the description and the balance until we see in the statistics that usage of that particular spell is going up. So yeah, we really learn a lot of our own game by
putting it in Early Access
.
[/spoiler]

I for one use Bless a lot. The only other spell I have Shadowheart cast as much is Spiritual Weapon. But I am using the D&D Rebalance mod; so backstab is out, and Bless is very useful. Disengage (an action now) is separate from Jump, and Dodge has been added. Jump is part of movement in my current playthrough, and you can't jump if you are threatened. There is still Advantage from height. I assume because there is no real cover mechanic in BG3 yet. I also find Blindness useful as a de-buff now. It will be even more useful when I can up-cast it. Funny how changing just a few things can completely change the game.
Posted By: bullse Re: BG3 current situation - 08/01/21 05:59 PM
Originally Posted by Merlex
I for one use Bless a lot.

And you good, Sir, are a good player.
Ironic though, that many still have no understanding, let alone, utilize pre-buffing just prior to an engagement/encounter.
Posted By: Dexai Re: BG3 current situation - 08/01/21 06:14 PM
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Dexai
I made sort of the same observation back in the thread I linked, so I'm not going to make it again. But yes, it seems like that.

Don't know if you read that interview before giving your opinion about "numbers and statistic" but it looks you were right.

I'm not sure what you mean -- I just quoted the part of the excerpt I thought was relevant.
Posted By: CamKitty Re: BG3 current situation - 08/01/21 09:33 PM
Originally Posted by daMichi
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by daMichi
I have to admit I am also rather pessimistic.

What was stated in an interview regarding e.g. the spell 'Bless' it seems to me that Larian will hold in to their current design philosophy.

We will get higher levels with more powerfull spells, then they will not be used that much, because it's far easier to get similiar effects by just running around an enemy.
Then Larian wants to change these spells to make them more appealing, and in the end we get something that ist a DnD game only by name and nothing else.

I sure hope I am wrong, though.

So am I reading that Larian thinks Bless is unnecessary because they notice people don’t use it? Is it perhaps the game has so many broken balance issues that you don’t need to use it? Why waste a spell for bonuses when you can easily gain advantage anytime?

So the solution is to make Bless more OP? Not try to balance combat?

That’s a huge problem. They should have built around 5e and made small changes. Instead they built around DOS and made small 5e changes.

Yes, that's exactly what they did, because it seems that they think that DnD 5e mechanics are inherently boring and need to be more flashy, at least that's what's coming across in various interviews.

It's their game and their decisions, we can can only voice our wishes to make it more like DnD, and hope we will be heard.

So basically fudge Larian, since they have only plans to make DoS3 out of this. Wonderful . . .
Posted By: Scribe Re: BG3 current situation - 10/01/21 07:32 AM
Originally Posted by Merlex
Originally Posted by Dexai
Originally Posted by Drath Malorn
[quote=daMichi]What was stated in an interview regarding e.g. the spell 'Bless' it seems to me that Larian will hold in to their current design philosophy.

Oh ?! Can someone give me a link to that interview ?

The Bless spell is one the major offenders, as far as my problems with the current spells go. ...

One thing that we learned from the statistics is that people are completely uninterested in a lot of buffing and debuffing spells – we have stats where you can see how many people are using what spell and how often they’re using it, and that made us realise every magic spell that we put in an RPG needs to have this ‘oomph’ factor.

You have to want to click it, or you’ll never click it. You cannot sell a bless spell to people. It’s boring. They don’t care – they want to see fireworks, they want to see damage. If you talk to someone about balancing in the Original Sin games, they’ll say the buffing and debuffing is overpowered, but we make it overpowered on purpose because otherwise people are not going to click it.

We make them want to click it. We keep on changing the description and the balance until we see in the statistics that usage of that particular spell is going up. So yeah, we really learn a lot of our own game by
putting it in Early Access
.
[/spoiler]

I for one use Bless a lot. The only other spell I have Shadowheart cast as much is Spiritual Weapon. But I am using the D&D Rebalance mod; so backstab is out, and Bless is very useful. Disengage (an action now) is separate from Jump, and Dodge has been added. Jump is part of movement in my current playthrough, and you can't jump if you are threatened. There is still Advantage from height. I assume because there is no real cover mechanic in BG3 yet. I also find Blindness useful as a de-buff now. It will be even more useful when I can up-cast it. Funny how changing just a few things can completely change the game.

Well, if things need to be fixed with a mod, at least they CAN be fixed with a mod?
Posted By: mr_planescapist Re: BG3 current situation - 10/01/21 08:21 AM
Going back to my original post, maybe I did over-mentioned Solasta, but I real do feel it is a valid comparison to BG3 since the game play also uses D^D5th, and arguably uses it to a fuller extent.
Right now the BG3 gameplay/combat feels lacking something...its totally not BG2, not really D^D5th, and not really DOS2...

Like someone else mentioned in DOS2 you had many more action points..this opened so much more possibilities during your turn : FUN. And it works with environment/ Larian style effects. Having very few doable actions a turn and mixing in tons of DOS2 type effects really kills the gameplay for me.

Simply putting it, do you think having more actions during a turn would improve the gameplay and overall fun of BG3? Hence a very simple fix that could go a long way.
Posted By: booboo Re: BG3 current situation - 10/01/21 08:21 AM
that quote is disturbing...so unless abilities/spells/objects have an 'oomph' factor they won't be in the final game? Many people may not realise how useful something is because they are new to 5E, so that stats-only analysis is a really bizzare an ill conceived way of designing/evolving a game... Many spells and abilities are highly situational - it is more than likely that the broken 5E mechanics we have now render these things less useful (or so it would seem). I always used bless for tougher combats when I did my playthroughs. I really hope that Larian looks at forum feedback more than they do at aggregated data from their game. If they simply stuck to 5E proper, and people didn't have access to overpowered non 5E abilities and incendieries, they'd more than likely end up using these 'uninteresting' buffs/debuffs. I really hope that point gets through.
Posted By: spectralhunter Re: BG3 current situation - 10/01/21 04:17 PM
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
Simply putting it, do you think having more actions during a turn would improve the gameplay and overall fun of BG3? Hence a very simple fix that could go a long way.

I do not. My point is, either try to abide by 5e rules or do not. Creating a blend of two systems is what is causing all the balancing issues. 5e core design is action economy to prevent certain classes to be more powerful than others. Even with that, balance falls apart as levels increase.

If people think balance is bad now, just wait till level 5 and up.

Larian needs to pick. DOS or 5e style combat. Trying to please everyone ends up pleasing no one. Pick a side.
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: BG3 current situation - 10/01/21 05:27 PM
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
Simply putting it, do you think having more actions during a turn would improve the gameplay and overall fun of BG3? Hence a very simple fix that could go a long way.

I don't think so, depending why you consider it could improve the gameplay.

More action points for the players and ennemies won't solve anything if we're talking about the speed of combats.

Discussions about the implementation of the rules aside, the only solution I see for more fluent and more enjoyable combats is to increase the party size.

At the moment I'm trying a playthrough with 6 companions and it's way more fun.
I have many things to do and everything is more fluent.
I HAVE more actions during a round but I'm not breaking the rules even more.

Of course it's way more easier... And it's probably too easy but the difficulty of the game isn't especially a matter of number of ennemies/companions.

- Increased party size = more action during 1 round
- Better implementation of the rules = better balance
- Well balanced custom mechanics (>< Larian's homebrew) = better control of our %to hit.

Want something more difficult ? Just improve ennemie's damages and/or AC a bit.
Posted By: Van'tal Re: BG3 current situation - 10/01/21 10:03 PM
Originally Posted by booboo
that quote is disturbing...so unless abilities/spells/objects have an 'oomph' factor they won't be in the final game? Many people may not realise how useful something is because they are new to 5E, so that stats-only analysis is a really bizzare an ill conceived way of designing/evolving a game... Many spells and abilities are highly situational - it is more than likely that the broken 5E mechanics we have now render these things less useful (or so it would seem). I always used bless for tougher combats when I did my playthroughs. I really hope that Larian looks at forum feedback more than they do at aggregated data from their game. If they simply stuck to 5E proper, and people didn't have access to overpowered non 5E abilities and incendieries, they'd more than likely end up using these 'uninteresting' buffs/debuffs. I really hope that point gets through.

Absolutely! That would be a horrible call.

The saving grace is the modding community, who will promptly put it back.
Posted By: Drath Malorn Re: BG3 current situation - 17/01/21 04:32 PM
Originally Posted by Dexai
@Dexai : Thanks a lot for the link to the interview.


Reading what they said in that interview made my palm want to fly violently into my forehead. But after encountering many stupid things in the EA versions so far, my palm and my forehead have become like an old couple. They don't need to get physical all the time, they can nearly communicate through a mere look.

At first, what disappointed me the most was what they were saying specifically about Bless and spells. But when I think about it, really, it's a difference of vision and philosophy. They want the combat to be "Kaboom" et "omg, lol, that worked" (which leads to memes, and overall a better streamer-watching experience, I guess). I prefer a deep and meaty combat system. At least, now they have communicated more on their vision, and communication isn't what I would put first on the list of things Larian is doing very well in BG3/the EA phase. I'm glad I wasn't planning to be playing this game chiefly for the combat.

But after reflection, what is the most disappointing are the following two things.


a) Their use of player-data.

This is the (dawn of the) era of big data. Everyone and their neighbour is collecting vast amounts of data. But a secret about data, that most statisticians (and scientists in general) are happy to shout around as much as they are allowed to, is that big data doesn't give good insights on its own. Just like good ingredients in a kitchen don't turn themselves into good dishes without a good cook.

The data that they are collecting is obviously biased in so many ways. I don't want to repeat too many things that have already been said, and to devote too much space to massively obvious things, so I'll try the shortest way I can formulate this : the data is influenced by all the current game parameters. Given that the combat system is currently half built and broken as a result (with Bless being possibly a perfect example), it's obvious that any combat data must be manipulated with extreme caution.

So, seeing them have good fun and re-recreate the average Custom Characters is amusing, seeing them monitor how many people side with goblins is one of the very instructing things the data can be used for, seeing them seemingly give importance to a spell's usage rate at this point ... impresses me in the wrong direction.


b) What they say on experiencing the story vs what they say on combat.

I haven't played a Larian game before, but I've heard they indeed care about player choices. Here they state that when in comes to the story, and player decisions, they want to program something nice for all possibilities, even if a small percentage of players use any given one. That's one of the main things I'm excited about in BG3.

So it's kind of disappointing that, when it comes to combat, they apparently rather want to make all spells appealing all the time. I don't how many spells were in DOS, but 5E has over 200 spells. They can't be equally valuable all the time. In fact, many of them are very situational. But most players will have a very satisfying experience overcoming a difficulty (combat or not) by thinking of using that obscure spell they rarely ever use. Maybe they'll click the spell twice in a playthrough, but these two clicks might be strongly remembered.
Posted By: Dark_Ansem Re: BG3 current situation - 19/01/21 06:34 PM
I like the game a lot more than DOS but I still have gripes with it.
Posted By: Terminator2020 Re: BG3 current situation - 20/01/21 09:25 PM
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
Going back to my original post, maybe I did over-mentioned Solasta, but I real do feel it is a valid comparison to BG3 since the game play also uses D^D5th, and arguably uses it to a fuller extent.
Right now the BG3 gameplay/combat feels lacking something...its totally not BG2, not really D^D5th, and not really DOS2...

Like someone else mentioned in DOS2 you had many more action points..this opened so much more possibilities during your turn : FUN. And it works with environment/ Larian style effects. Having very few doable actions a turn and mixing in tons of DOS2 type effects really kills the gameplay for me.

Simply putting it, do you think having more actions during a turn would improve the gameplay and overall fun of BG3? Hence a very simple fix that could go a long way.
Well here comes answer from a none DOS2 fan (I do not hate that game not saying that felt more like average to me and I did not even finish that game though I did play through Pillars of Eternity 1 despite it not being DD) and I have done my fair share of Pen and Paper DD gaming and have played DD games on PC.

No I certainly do not want this game to take more further steps away from DD rules and that we get more actions.
I have not played Solasta I admit that so can not comment on that.

About the graphics. I am generally fairly fine with them though Elves could look slightly more Elven perhaps. In addition did not like that my Wood Elf default skin color green, but there is quite a bit what you can change in character creation example skin color. I changed Wood Elf green skin color to white.

No lol I am not racist towards exotic races that did not exist in say older DD versions or BG1 and BG2. I like Lae Zel find her attractive as well as I feel Shadowheart attractive. Well though romance in BG3 has so far been to me a bit half done at best I would like it to be all the way like content made for adults.

I would not say I am very romantic though. I like Action and Horror in movies and games and I want to play this game on harder challenge level then Normal when full release is done. That being said of course they should add an Easy challenge level for those people that want it.
Posted By: DiDiDi Re: BG3 current situation - 23/01/21 04:18 PM
I like the game a lot so far, but:
  • The combat system & mechanics need fixes/changes - either by being MORE like D&D 5e (which I'd prefer) and LESS than DOS, or vice versa (though licensing problems may prevent that).
  • Tone down the romances - seriously, this should not be that obnoxious and forced onto players as it is now. Feels almost like Witcher 1 card-collecting, except you can only collect one card and the game reminds you multiple times that you SHOULD collect it.
  • The approval system and points allocations are weird (and abusable, if you're not a hard-core roleplayer) - and I'm not talking about the infinite approval bugs, those will get fixed for sure. I would rather make approval a hidden value and make the companions voice their disapproval, rather than seeing "X (dis)approves" (and probably make them generally less judgemental to balance that change).
  • Environments, locations - awesome, this is the one part that actually resembles BG1/2, as far as environments, colors etc. are concerned.
  • Companions - I generally like them (aka "consider them well-written") for the most part, at least after patch 3. The "everything happens at the camp" dynamics feels a bit overused, perhaps.
  • Story - So far so good!
  • Character creation - It's OK, though there are some (already well-documented elsewhere) gripes I have, like half-elves looking more elven than actual elves, tieflings looking all basically the same (there used to be lore reasons for that, but not anymore)
  • Buuuugs, glitches ,etc. - that's to be expected, though there are many bugs from the very first available versions that should be really easy to fix, but aren't - e.g. Ranger's Two-Weapon Fighting Style or Wizard's learning (all) spells, but that not being reflected on level ups - I would really like for the devs to focus on these quick win fixes.
  • Level cap is a bit obnoxious at later stages, maybe give us higher levels even if not all corresponding abilities/spells aren't implemented yet?
Posted By: Terminator2020 Re: BG3 current situation - 23/01/21 04:59 PM
Originally Posted by DiDiDi
I like the game a lot so far, but:
  • The combat system & mechanics need fixes/changes - either by being MORE like D&D 5e (which I'd prefer) and LESS than DOS, or vice versa (though licensing problems may prevent that).
  • Tone down the romances - seriously, this should not be that obnoxious and forced onto players as it is now. Feels almost like Witcher 1 card-collecting, except you can only collect one card and the game reminds you multiple times that you SHOULD collect it.
  • The approval system and points allocations are weird (and abusable, if you're not a hard-core roleplayer) - and I'm not talking about the infinite approval bugs, those will get fixed for sure. I would rather make approval a hidden value and make the companions voice their disapproval, rather than seeing "X (dis)approves" (and probably make them generally less judgemental to balance that change).
  • Environments, locations - awesome, this is the one part that actually resembles BG1/2, as far as environments, colors etc. are concerned.
  • Companions - I generally like them (aka "consider them well-written") for the most part, at least after patch 3. The "everything happens at the camp" dynamics feels a bit overused, perhaps.
  • Story - So far so good!
  • Character creation - It's OK, though there are some (already well-documented elsewhere) gripes I have, like half-elves looking more elven than actual elves, tieflings looking all basically the same (there used to be lore reasons for that, but not anymore)
  • Buuuugs, glitches ,etc. - that's to be expected, though there are many bugs from the very first available versions that should be really easy to fix, but aren't - e.g. Ranger's Two-Weapon Fighting Style or Wizard's learning (all) spells, but that not being reflected on level ups - I would really like for the devs to focus on these quick win fixes.
  • Level cap is a bit obnoxious at later stages, maybe give us higher levels even if not all corresponding abilities/spells aren't implemented yet?
Romantism they could have options in menu.
A. Keep it soft romantism as it is currently.
B. Ramp it up to full nudity.
C. Disable it no romantism in game.
It is funny we are polar opposite sides of romantism. If they would inlcude in B option as extra sub option under B a specific woman Elf that behaves likes celebrity Belle Delphine she sometimes dress up like an Elf in real life (I do not mean all her actions selling some bathwater, but the smiles, facial expressions and way to act) I would be all for that.

I am pretty sure there are no license preventing them making it more according to the core rules. The rest of your comments I have nothing to add to them you said them fine.
Posted By: DiDiDi Re: BG3 current situation - 23/01/21 05:11 PM
Originally Posted by Terminator2020
Romantism they could have options in menu.
A. Keep it soft romantism as it is currently.
B. Ramp it up to full nudity.
C. Disable it no romantism in game.
That's not what I meant - I don't mind the erotic scenes (as long as they fix the glitches, armor clipping etc.). Having an option to disable romances is dumb, you should be able to do it through, you know, role playing. The romances just need to be scripted/written better. Although an option to reduce nudity/erotica, like disabling gore/blood, might make sense for some - e.g. some Americans are completely preposterous in regards to nudity, although hectolitres of blood & gore is fine by their standards.

Originally Posted by Terminator2020
I am pretty sure there are no license preventing them making it more according to the core rules.
I meant the opposite - a game set in Forgotten Realms that does not really use D&D rules.
Posted By: Terminator2020 Re: BG3 current situation - 23/01/21 05:14 PM
Originally Posted by DiDiDi
Originally Posted by Terminator2020
Romantism they could have options in menu.
A. Keep it soft romantism as it is currently.
B. Ramp it up to full nudity.
C. Disable it no romantism in game.
That's not what I meant - I don't mind the erotic scenes (as long as they fix the glitches, armor clipping etc.). Having an option to disable romances is dumb, you should be able to do it through, you know, role playing. The romances (that lead to those scenes) just need to be scripted/written better.

Originally Posted by Terminator2020
I am pretty sure there are no license preventing them making it more according to the core rules.
I meant the opposite - a game set in Forgotten Realms that does not really use D&D rules.
Aha ok then we agree on romantism.

I do not want this game to become DOS3 thank you. I like the core DD rules. I did not even finish playing through DOS2 felt to average to me. Well not saying I hated or disliked very much DOS2 and more like it felt average and to much of my time to play it through.
Posted By: marajango Re: BG3 current situation - 23/01/21 05:20 PM
Originally Posted by DiDiDi
I like the game a lot so far, but:
  • The approval system and points allocations are weird (and abusable, if you're not a hard-core roleplayer) - and I'm not talking about the infinite approval bugs, those will get fixed for sure. I would rather make approval a hidden value and make the companions voice their disapproval, rather than seeing "X (dis)approves" (and probably make them generally less judgemental to balance that change).
I would like that change as well. Would be one less incitement to min-max your approval ratings for certain characters and just stay true to the kind of character and story that you would like to play.
Posted By: DiDiDi Re: BG3 current situation - 23/01/21 05:25 PM
Originally Posted by Terminator2020
I do not want this game to become DOS3 thank you.
Neither do I, but I think I would like that system better than a weird hybrid of DOS and D&D. I'm all for getting closer to the 5e rules where it makes sense. There's plenty of places where this game could follow the P&P rules, but just doesn't for some reason and the game is worse due to that. Especially the ease of getting advantage basically breaks all balance that 5e has, making many abilities and spells useless.
Posted By: Merry Mayhem Re: BG3 current situation - 30/03/21 12:47 AM
1. If I could get a refund I would.

2. Larian Studios has now joined the companies who's games I will look at like a year or so after release when they are on sale for 75-80 % off.
Posted By: Zenith Re: BG3 current situation - 30/03/21 01:47 AM
Originally Posted by marajango
Originally Posted by DiDiDi
I like the game a lot so far, but:
  • The approval system and points allocations are weird (and abusable, if you're not a hard-core roleplayer) - and I'm not talking about the infinite approval bugs, those will get fixed for sure. I would rather make approval a hidden value and make the companions voice their disapproval, rather than seeing "X (dis)approves" (and probably make them generally less judgemental to balance that change).
I would like that change as well. Would be one less incitement to min-max your approval ratings for certain characters and just stay true to the kind of character and story that you would like to play.


This never works. This is for players who want to play suboptimally to feel better by having the impact of their choices be less apparent, but people who always analyze and optimize games will simply test out and obtain exact measurements, and all you've accomplished is that people who are interested in approval check outcomes have to minimize the game to go read up on a third party website some guide to find out how to optimize their gameplay strategies.

Obscurantism never fixes anything, it just restricts needlessly.
Posted By: Tabuk Re: BG3 current situation - 31/03/21 05:14 PM
Comparing Solasta to BG3 is like comparing your high school baseball team to the New York Yankees. Sure High school baseball can be fun but, there is No comparison.

I can't think of any game that is similar in scale and stunning graphics and details story, where you can do a quest 5 times and get 5 different results. It's ground breaking and its a shame there are a certain amount of people that don't recognize this yet.

and all done in a non "cartoon" setting (all the other games are cartoon cheap and easy to do). BG3 is really amazing work.
Posted By: andreasrylander Re: BG3 current situation - 31/03/21 05:21 PM
Originally Posted by Tabuk
Comparing Solasta to BG3 is like comparing your high school baseball team to the New York Yankees. Sure High school baseball can be fun but, there is No comparison.

I can't think of any game that is similar in scale and stunning graphics and details story, where you can do a quest 5 times and get 5 different results. It's ground breaking and its a shame there are a certain amount of people that don't recognize this yet.

and all done in a non "cartoon" setting (all the other games are cartoon cheap and easy to do). BG3 is really amazing work.


It's VERY much amazing!! I love it!! That is also why I want it to improve as much as possible, to make it even better!
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: BG3 current situation - 31/03/21 05:58 PM
Originally Posted by Tabuk
It's ground breaking and its a shame there are a certain amount of people that don't recognize this yet.

Many people agree with this but this doesn't mean that the game is perfect. I.E Combats being not so good for a tactical TB game and very unbalanced/frustrating/easy but also hard/systematic/... is facts.

You're free to like unbalanced difficulty and god mode strategies but it doesn't mean that the game shouldn't be improved on major points.

None of us would be here if we wouldn't agree on the incredible potential/qualities of the game.
Posted By: Passerby Re: BG3 current situation - 31/03/21 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by Tabuk
Comparing Solasta to BG3 is like comparing your high school baseball team to the New York Yankees. Sure High school baseball can be fun but, there is No comparison.

I can't think of any game that is similar in scale and stunning graphics and details story, where you can do a quest 5 times and get 5 different results. It's ground breaking and its a shame there are a certain amount of people that don't recognize this yet.

and all done in a non "cartoon" setting (all the other games are cartoon cheap and easy to do). BG3 is really amazing work.

If it's just comparing the aesthetics and story, then sure, BG3 is leagues ahead of Solasta. But if it's combat that's being compared, then Solasta leaves BG3 in the dust. There's very little in BG3's combat that is tactical. If Solasta's combat is chess, then Bg3's is checkers.
Posted By: Tuco Re: BG3 current situation - 31/03/21 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
You're free to like unbalanced difficulty and god mode strategies but it doesn't mean that the game shouldn't be improved on major points.

None of us would be here if we wouldn't agree on the incredible potential/qualities of the game.
That's the thing: it's fun to find that "overpowered strategy" and "break the game" when you have to go out of your way to leverage your knowledge of the system.
It's not that fun when the game is almost purposefully designed to break itself apart at every minimal finger pressure from the user. When the "jankiness" is part of the core design and the developers go out of their way to show it to you at any public demonstration, taking even pride on it.
Posted By: Madscientist Re: BG3 current situation - 01/04/21 07:26 AM
@Tuco:
I agree. DnD 5E is a working system and it has millions of players. Sure, it can be broken, but it requires some efford from the player.
BG3 is "balanced" around stuff that should not work in DnD, but it is still advertised as DnD game.


about BG3 vs Solasta:
Sure, BG3 is bigger, has better graphics, very interactive environment, many ways to solve quests and so on.
But if we only look at game mechanics and user interface, Solasta is way better.
Posted By: Abits Re: BG3 current situation - 01/04/21 08:28 AM
I think Solasta has proven that 5e adaptation to a video game is more than possible, and it's a big deal. But unfortunately, other than that Solasta has nothing going on for it. The gameplay is too slow (characters take too long to do stuff which makes combat really slow), the story is so boring I want to shut down the game every time there is a cutscene and there are no characters.

I wish Baldur's gate 3 will do more Solasta stuff for sure, but there is no doubt which game I'll play more in the long run
Posted By: Seraphael Re: BG3 current situation - 01/04/21 09:58 AM
Originally Posted by Tabuk
Comparing Solasta to BG3 is like comparing your high school baseball team to the New York Yankees. Sure High school baseball can be fun but, there is No comparison.

I can't think of any game that is similar in scale and stunning graphics and details story, where you can do a quest 5 times and get 5 different results. It's ground breaking and its a shame there are a certain amount of people that don't recognize this yet.

and all done in a non "cartoon" setting (all the other games are cartoon cheap and easy to do). BG3 is really amazing work.

Not that I agree with the comparison as Solasta seems more like a D&D simulator than a game to my limited knowledge, but what's *truly* is a shame, is that you and a certain amount of people don't recognize the validity of criticisms because you miss the point. By far most of the criticism goes to gameplay issues related to Larian's heavy-handed preference of their own homebrew cheese rather than seemingly even trying any of the many D&D alternatives. Alternatives that for well-argued reasons are seen as better than what is currently in the game. Having a more faithful implementation of D&D is the one issue almost all fans of BG3 agree upon according to early polls.

I'm one of "those people" who are vocally critical of the above, but remain active hopeful of improvements while all the same recognizing BG3 has a great deal of promise. We are generally not advocating throwing out the baby with the bathwater as you seem to think, far from it.
Posted By: gaymer Re: BG3 current situation - 01/04/21 10:57 AM
Originally Posted by Abits
I think Solasta has proven that 5e adaptation to a video game is more than possible, and it's a big deal. But unfortunately, other than that Solasta has nothing going on for it. The gameplay is too slow (characters take too long to do stuff which makes combat really slow), the story is so boring I want to shut down the game every time there is a cutscene and there are no characters.

I wish Baldur's gate 3 will do more Solasta stuff for sure, but there is no doubt which game I'll play more in the long run

That's the thing. Solasta has maxed out for the budget it has, resources it has, and coming from a very small studio. Certain adaptations to 5e mechanics were done properly in that game and everyone can see that, which is why Solasta is referenced so much on the forum.

The other criticisms with Solasta are largely due to the fact that they're a smaller studio than Larian with less money than Larian. In essence, Solasta can't ever be more like BG but BG3 can be more like Solasta.

Larian has the resources to improve their game.

Originally Posted by Tabuk
Comparing Solasta to BG3 is like comparing your high school baseball team to the New York Yankees. Sure High school baseball can be fun but, there is No comparison.

I can't think of any game that is similar in scale and stunning graphics and details story, where you can do a quest 5 times and get 5 different results. It's ground breaking and its a shame there are a certain amount of people that don't recognize this yet.

and all done in a non "cartoon" setting (all the other games are cartoon cheap and easy to do). BG3 is really amazing work.

The cinematics and gfx are the only thing holding BG3 together. No one can deny the game is beautiful and the gfx on max settings with the cutscenes and cinematics really pull you into the game and make it seem more alive.

But that's where it ends. Once you get into the combat, some of the writing, the numerous bugs, wonky adaptions, Larian cheese, excessive loot, etc. that begins to overshadow a fully-voiced game with cute cutscenes.

Don't know about you, but I'd choose a dull/flat looking game with better gameplay over a pretty game with crap gameplay and lots of other issues.

I suspect that if Solasta were multiplayer they would cannibalize BG3's revenue and Larian better hope and pray that they don't find a way to implement this in the full game or a later update.
Posted By: ash elemental Re: BG3 current situation - 01/04/21 11:15 AM
Originally Posted by gaymer
The cinematics and gfx are the only thing holding BG3 together. No one can deny the game is beautiful and the gfx on max settings with the cutscenes and cinematics really pull you into the game and make it seem more alive.

But that's where it ends. Once you get into the combat, some of the writing, the numerous bugs, wonky adaptions, Larian cheese, excessive loot, etc. that begins to overshadow a fully-voiced game with cute cutscenes.

Don't know about you, but I'd choose a dull/flat looking game with better gameplay over a pretty game with crap gameplay and lots of other issues.

I suspect that if Solasta were multiplayer they would cannibalize BG3's revenue and Larian better hope and pray that they don't find a way to implement this in the full game or a later update.
I don't play BG3 for the cinematics (or really any game), and I agree about a lot of the criticism regarding combat. But I've enjoyed BG3 because of the exploration factor: how the different area maps are connected, the different ways you can deal with npcs and factions in the game, using different skills for exploration (druids shine here, imo). And this is all unrelated to either combat or cinematics.

I have no interest in Solasta and that is not because of multiplayer. It is because all the praise about it seems to be related to combat, but I could find little info about the quests, main plot, npcs, how much of the world is open. And what little info I could find indicated it is a linear story with no branching.

If I wanted to play a game just for combat, I'd go for a strategy instead of a cRPG.
Posted By: MrSam Re: BG3 current situation - 01/04/21 11:22 AM
All the praise Solasta gets is from Solasta's makers who promote it here disguised as fellow gaymers. Quite cheap and good marketing idea really, props for that, sad that the game sucks.
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: BG3 current situation - 01/04/21 12:11 PM
Originally Posted by MrSam
All the praise Solasta gets is from Solasta's makers who promote it here disguised as fellow gaymers. Quite cheap and good marketing idea really, props for that, sad that the game sucks.

Seriously guy, grow up.
Don't understand how you're still here after this day of troll/taunt/insult.
Posted By: vometia Re: BG3 current situation - 01/04/21 01:08 PM
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Seriously guy, grow up.
Don't understand how you're still here after this day of troll/taunt/insult.

He's not.

In more general terms, maybe the Solasta discussion should go in the chat forum; however well intentioned, it seems that comparisons with BG3 can become quite animated and don't always end well.
Posted By: Boblawblah Re: BG3 current situation - 01/04/21 01:20 PM
Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Seriously guy, grow up.
Don't understand how you're still here after this day of troll/taunt/insult.

He's not.

In more general terms, maybe the Solasta discussion should go in the chat forum; however well intentioned, it seems that comparisons with BG3 can become quite animated and don't always end well.

i don't think it's fair that entire topics get shut down because people that don't like those topics can just make troll comments about them purposely trying to shut down discussion
Posted By: fallenj Re: BG3 current situation - 01/04/21 01:29 PM
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Seriously guy, grow up.
Don't understand how you're still here after this day of troll/taunt/insult.

He's not.

In more general terms, maybe the Solasta discussion should go in the chat forum; however well intentioned, it seems that comparisons with BG3 can become quite animated and don't always end well.

i don't think it's fair that entire topics get shut down because people that don't like those topics can just make troll comments about them purposely trying to shut down discussion

It's not really troll posts more heated discussions that get out of hand, I was in a thread earlier that got a warning, I edited my post I was going to do and went for more on the topic. Was in the mid of a reply later on and the thread got locked because of others, so I swapped to personal messages. This happens, its a public forum.
Posted By: fylimar Re: BG3 current situation - 01/04/21 02:22 PM
I agree with the people here saying, that combat could be better. Currently it relies heavily on 3 or 4 strategies and the gameplay felt nearly the same, no matter, which class you play.
I really like BG3, but there is a lot of room for improvement.
Posted By: Seraphael Re: BG3 current situation - 01/04/21 02:55 PM
Originally Posted by gaymer
The cinematics and gfx are the only thing holding BG3 together. No one can deny the game is beautiful and the gfx on max settings with the cutscenes and cinematics really pull you into the game and make it seem more alive.

But that's where it ends. Once you get into the combat, some of the writing, the numerous bugs, wonky adaptions, Larian cheese, excessive loot, etc. that begins to overshadow a fully-voiced game with cute cutscenes.

Don't know about you, but I'd choose a dull/flat looking game with better gameplay over a pretty game with crap gameplay and lots of other issues.

I suspect that if Solasta were multiplayer they would cannibalize BG3's revenue and Larian better hope and pray that they don't find a way to implement this in the full game or a later update.

If I truly believed like you do, I would have little hope for the game. Fortunately, BG3 is so much more than nice visuals! The audio, in particular the voice acting is absolutely first-rate. The story (roughly), most of the writing, narration and character and -interaction is also not only generally good, it is reminiscent of the original saga. Just better in many regards, though it can never be the masturbatory wet dream of power gamers when the focus and power is shared with arguably more interesting origin characters. The use of D&D skill system layered in a way to disincentivize savescumming (which is objectively shitty gameplay) is unique, at least something I've never seen before. In short, I while most areas can be improved upon, I only consider gameplay a major issue.

I very much agree on the criticism of Larian cheese, which is so prevalent they go from being situational tactical options, to being core gameplay mechanics revolving around legal exploits that makes a mockery out of many combat encounters. On excessive loot focus that subtracts from player/build focus and where unique loot is so common it stops feeling special. Other big issues is the brokenly unbalanced resting system, no day/night cycles, unimmersive static camp and overuse of conversations here in a way that feels artificial. Pickpocketing being a brokenly unbalanced way to easily acquire near endless supply of loot and money basically without risk, no law system.
Posted By: gaymer Re: BG3 current situation - 01/04/21 04:16 PM
Originally Posted by fylimar
I agree with the people here saying, that combat could be better. Currently it relies heavily on 3 or 4 strategies and the gameplay felt nearly the same, no matter, which class you play.
I really like BG3, but there is a lot of room for improvement.

That's a feature of Larian. Having played DOS1 & DOS2, especially the sequel with the armour system, you could only use certain strategies and compositions to win the encounters. Your first 2 or 3 turns each battle were spent doing the exact same thing in the exact same order regardless of the enemy because it was simply the most effective thing.

In BG3, Larian "conveniently" placed lethal high ground shove spots in nearly all named mob encounters. Dror Ragzlin, Minthara, Gekh, etc. can all be killed by sneak/invis shove cheese for insta-gib LOLOLOL strategy. The most obvious one is Gekh being placed with his back turned to you right over a huge open bottomless portion of the Underdark when the rest of the area on all other sides has actual ground. It's just poor game design.

The other encounters that don't have a "convenient" environment trigger where you can destroy something hanging from above and make it fall on them or break a structure so it crumbles.

Now some of these things aren't all bad when used in moderation and can have useful effects, but not when it's something in every fight. It's almost as if they are looking to pride themselves on a YouTube compilation of people just shoving high-level, deadly enemies into the unknown for insta-kills or baiting an enemy into a specific spot where you shoot and drop a boulder or fire pit on them.

The game right now is so meta'd and almost goads players into falling for the cheese traps. Not to mention there is high ground conveniently in nearly every single fight you have and you'd be stupid not to use high ground because of its advantage and the fact that the AI will.
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: BG3 current situation - 01/04/21 04:30 PM
What I love the most in the game is that they gave us so many choices and so many things to discover.

After 3 or 4 full playtrough + dozens of others, I'm still discovering new things on the maps and dialogs.
I just found the entrance of the kuo toa's lair in my last playthrough... I've been spoiled but I know that I haven't done the full arcane tower yet... I just found for the first time the item to have 8 friendly spiders (I have interracted with the thing more than once)

This is amazing and they totally suceed with their will to offer us "choices/surprises"... Except for combats.

I guess every players that are interrested in the game because it's also a tactical turn based game are going to be dissapointed before the end of their first playthrough.

They won't be able to balance things arround D&D and arround their OP mechanics at the same time because one is way over the other.

D&D = many choices. Larian's homebrewed are probably made to create even more choices but it's a failure. They are LESS choices because they're now the only usefull choices. The game is balanced arround them and I also include things like dipping in the equation.

Dozens of D&D things are useless but we also have so many powerfull tools the AI won't ever use that hard encounters are unfair.

(Don't get me wrong, It would be horrible if ennemies were dipping/shove/backstab/use highground correctly).

That's why so many players find the game is too hard.
That's why so many players find it too easy at the same time.

Play it how you want to play it and you'll be frustrated because it's hard.
Play it how Larian wants you to play it and you'll be frustrated because you won't have any challenge.

Combats have all the components to be incredible but they aren't and it's not a matter of difficulty level.... It's 100% a matter of balance.
Posted By: Baldurs-Gate-Fan Re: BG3 current situation - 01/04/21 04:36 PM
Originally Posted by gaymer
Originally Posted by fylimar
I agree with the people here saying, that combat could be better. Currently it relies heavily on 3 or 4 strategies and the gameplay felt nearly the same, no matter, which class you play.
I really like BG3, but there is a lot of room for improvement.

That's a feature of Larian. Having played DOS1 & DOS2, especially the sequel with the armour system, you could only use certain strategies and compositions to win the encounters. Your first 2 or 3 turns each battle were spent doing the exact same thing in the exact same order regardless of the enemy because it was simply the most effective thing.

In BG3, Larian "conveniently" placed lethal high ground shove spots in nearly all named mob encounters. Dror Ragzlin, Minthara, Gekh, etc. can all be killed by sneak/invis shove cheese for insta-gib LOLOLOL strategy. The most obvious one is Gekh being placed with his back turned to you right over a huge open bottomless portion of the Underdark when the rest of the area on all other sides has actual ground. It's just poor game design.

The other encounters that don't have a "convenient" environment trigger where you can destroy something hanging from above and make it fall on them or break a structure so it crumbles.

Now some of these things aren't all bad when used in moderation and can have useful effects, but not when it's something in every fight. It's almost as if they are looking to pride themselves on a YouTube compilation of people just shoving high-level, deadly enemies into the unknown for insta-kills or baiting an enemy into a specific spot where you shoot and drop a boulder or fire pit on them.

The game right now is so meta'd and almost goads players into falling for the cheese traps. Not to mention there is high ground conveniently in nearly every single fight you have and you'd be stupid not to use high ground because of its advantage and the fact that the AI will.


Yep sums it up. Combat is so ridiculous bad that it’s hard to keep playing. I couldn’t get myself to start the game even after Druid update cause I know combat is still pathetic.
Posted By: fylimar Re: BG3 current situation - 01/04/21 04:43 PM
This is my first Larian game, never played DOS 1 & 2. I do really like the story and the characters (even the ones, I can't stand), but combat feels kind of wrong.
Posted By: Danielbda Re: BG3 current situation - 01/04/21 05:51 PM
Originally Posted by fylimar
This is my first Larian game, never played DOS 1 & 2. I do really like the story and the characters (even the ones, I can't stand), but combat feels kind of wrong.
Because its heavily derivative of the DOS games, and thus deviates from what D&D combat should be. Even if you never played it you can tell there is something off.
Posted By: fylimar Re: BG3 current situation - 01/04/21 06:49 PM
Originally Posted by Danielbda
Originally Posted by fylimar
This is my first Larian game, never played DOS 1 & 2. I do really like the story and the characters (even the ones, I can't stand), but combat feels kind of wrong.
Because its heavily derivative of the DOS games, and thus deviates from what D&D combat should be. Even if you never played it you can tell there is something off.

Yeah, it definitely doesn't feel like a D&D combat. I do hope, they might adjust this, given, that there are so many threads, where people discuss the combat system.
Posted By: Saito Hikari Re: BG3 current situation - 01/04/21 11:04 PM
Originally Posted by gaymer
That's the thing. Solasta has maxed out for the budget it has, resources it has, and coming from a very small studio. Certain adaptations to 5e mechanics were done properly in that game and everyone can see that, which is why Solasta is referenced so much on the forum.

The other criticisms with Solasta are largely due to the fact that they're a smaller studio than Larian with less money than Larian. In essence, Solasta can't ever be more like BG but BG3 can be more like Solasta.

Larian has the resources to improve their game.

That's pretty much the essence of it. It's a roundabout sign of respect, actually - people know Larian has the resources to do something about it, whereas most people wouldn't even bother for other cRPGs with massively limited budgets in comparison. Because let's face it, the only other cRPG with a moderately sized budget right now is Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous, and BG3's budget is still absolutely astronomical in comparison to that. (But still, if you let people think about this even harder, you start going into toxic Pokemon-style territory, where half the fanbase starts thinking about what other studios would be able to do if they were given any chance at all with the same budget.)

One needs to understand that people don't want to be talking about BG3 in the end as a game that's great despite the combat, largely carried by a massive budget that has seemingly gone into its writing, visuals and voice acting. That's considering no other cRPG that came before, besides their previous game DOS2, will ever be able to compare in that department - and we probably won't even see anything similar after, besides a possible sequel or a DOS3 (unless Wrath of the Righteous really takes off like I think it will). There's a reason the vast majority of criticism has been solely focused on the combat.

The only other cRPG in recent memory from another company that actually tried to match DOS2 was Pillars of Eternity 2, and that franchise straight up died (and is getting resurrected as a first person RPG) because of hideously bad mismanagement. Mostly their mismanagement taking the absolute wrong lessons from DOS2's success, that pretty visuals and full voice acting cannot mask POE2's flaws in nearly every other department.

This current half DOS/half DnD design has largely worked to the detriment of both systems, and has split the community apart. These forums are largely occupied by people who want the game's combat mechanics to be a lot closer to DnD, while the Reddit page is dominated by people who are fans of Larian's games first and are largely new to DnD or have zero interest in DnD as a whole otherwise. Maybe Larian wants to maintain as big of an audience from both communities as possible, but it's only going to get worse the longer the EA period is and people start thinking about the actual design with each subsequent replay, unless they break this and take a stance somewhere. Even going full DOS, as much as it would not be my favored solution at all, would be better than the current status quo - because DOS2 at least had a lot of possible depth to it, and you had to put much more thought into it besides 'get to high ground as soon as possible or stealth ambush every encounter', even though what I described were still important aspects of DOS2 combat.
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