Larian Studios
Posted By: Tabuk How many Acts? Classes? - 25/03/21 04:49 PM
I know they released Act 1, have they announced how many total acts there will be? How many did divinity 2 have? 4 I think?

Have they announced all the staring classes and races yet? what will be added at release? or do we not know that?
Posted By: Sigi98 Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 25/03/21 05:22 PM
i think they once said in a reddit AMA that 'every great story has a beginning, a middle, and an end' or something the like. this would mean there will be 3 acts.

regarding races/classes, i think they said that races and classes of the PHB will be in the game at final release.
Posted By: Tabuk Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 25/03/21 06:39 PM
So nothing official, just guessing at this point?
Posted By: Holokom Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 25/03/21 06:58 PM
Well according to their Anwsers from Streams etc we get:

3 Acts of Gameplay Content, ATM we got an area thats roughly the first act. Underdark is second act, but we are missing out on some areas so its about the same.


Races: All PHB Options mean:

Human, Woodelf, Highelf, Drow, Halfelf. Hill Dwarf, Mountain Dwarf, Halfling, Tiefling.

Missing but will come according to this Statement: Dragonborn, Halforc, Gnome. (Dragonborn have Breathattacks, Halforcs are just utterly OP for Fighting, and Gnomes are resistant to magic)


Classes:

Fighter: Battlemaster, Eldritchknight- (Champion is still missing from Phb)
Ranger: (got a complete overhaul and is different from normal DnD, no comparision possible)
Druid: Circle of Land, Circle of the Moon (Complete)
Cleric: Life Domain, Light Domain, Trickery Domain. (Missing: Knowledge, Nature and Tempest Domain)
Wizard: Abjuration and Evocation are in. (Transmutation, Divination, Enchantment,Conjuration, Necromancy and Illusion are Missing)
Rouge: Thief and Arcane Trickster are in ( Assasin is still missing)
Warlock: Fiend and Great Old one are in. (Archfey is missing)

Barbarian: Berserker and Totem Warrior (All Missing)
Bard: College of Lore, College of War (All Missing)
Sorceror: Draconic Bloodline, Wildmagic (All Missing)
Paladin: Oath of the Ancients, Oath of Devotion (All Missing)
Monk: Way of the Open Hand, Way of the Elements, Way of the Shadow (All Missing)
Posted By: GristlyKnuckle Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 25/03/21 08:34 PM
I really enjoyed my playtest. It's around 30 hours for the first act -- the game's probably about 90 hours long. That's pretty good considering I bought Jedi Fallen Order, and it was only 40 hours, same as Zelda Breath of the Wild.
Posted By: Warlocke Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 25/03/21 10:07 PM
Originally Posted by GristlyKnuckle
I really enjoyed my playtest. It's around 30 hours for the first act -- the game's probably about 90 hours long. That's pretty good considering I bought Jedi Fallen Order, and it was only 40 hours, same as Zelda Breath of the Wild.

I have read here that the part we have to play is act 1 A and that the tower you are traveling to is Act 1 B. Then Baldur’s Gate would be Act 2 and I would presume at least a part of Act 3 would return to Avernus. I think it is safe to bet that your first playthrough of the game will exceed 90 hours. My first playthrough of DOS2 was 110 hours, and Larian has indicated this game is bigger.
Posted By: Black_Elk Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 25/03/21 10:16 PM
If they complete that Race/Class list from the Players Handbook I would be pretty happy. But I fear the game coming out of EA with significant stuff missing, and the amount of time it took to get the druid makes me worry for the Paladins and Monks and such. It was floated elsewhere that the reaction heavy classes might be retooled but that's still speculative, since the system doesn't exist really in this game. Only two types of specialist wizard is rough too. BG1 managed to include all 8 with different colored unarmored robes based on the selected school. I miss that
Posted By: Madscientist Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 25/03/21 10:41 PM
Its unfair to compare EA of BG3 with the final BG1 ( I think there was no early access at that time).

It looks like we get all PHB stuff plus underdark races (drow, deep gnome, duergar) and gith.
Posted By: Tabuk Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 26/03/21 01:42 AM
Originally Posted by Holokom
Well according to their Anwsers from Streams etc we get:

3 Acts of Gameplay Content, ATM we got an area thats roughly the first act. Underdark is second act, but we are missing out on some areas so its about the same.


Races: All PHB Options mean:

Human, Woodelf, Highelf, Drow, Halfelf. Hill Dwarf, Mountain Dwarf, Halfling, Tiefling.

Missing but will come according to this Statement: Dragonborn, Halforc, Gnome. (Dragonborn have Breathattacks, Halforcs are just utterly OP for Fighting, and Gnomes are resistant to magic)


Classes:

Fighter: Battlemaster, Eldritchknight- (Champion is still missing from Phb)
Ranger: (got a complete overhaul and is different from normal DnD, no comparision possible)
Druid: Circle of Land, Circle of the Moon (Complete)
Cleric: Life Domain, Light Domain, Trickery Domain. (Missing: Knowledge, Nature and Tempest Domain)
Wizard: Abjuration and Evocation are in. (Transmutation, Divination, Enchantment,Conjuration, Necromancy and Illusion are Missing)
Rouge: Thief and Arcane Trickster are in ( Assasin is still missing)
Warlock: Fiend and Great Old one are in. (Archfey is missing)

Barbarian: Berserker and Totem Warrior (All Missing)
Bard: College of Lore, College of War (All Missing)
Sorceror: Draconic Bloodline, Wildmagic (All Missing)
Paladin: Oath of the Ancients, Oath of Devotion (All Missing)
Monk: Way of the Open Hand, Way of the Elements, Way of the Shadow (All Missing)

Awesome answer, thanks for this info

what is the likelihood of expansions and DLCS etc?
Posted By: Holokom Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 26/03/21 02:04 AM
Probably nothing Major, maybe some free Extra Gear Pieces or a couple Spells, but no Big Plot Line or Level cap over 13.

(Was the same with Divinity etc.)
Posted By: Sigi98 Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 26/03/21 08:53 AM
Originally Posted by Black_Elk
But I fear the game coming out of EA with significant stuff missing, and the amount of time it took to get the druid makes me worry for the Paladins and Monks and such.


the thing is, we don't know for how long the druid was ready though. I might have been ready for weeks or even longer, and the other things they added with patch 4 haven't. I actually expect them to have the framework for most classes and races more or less done. Nobody said they would release all content as soon as its ready, in fact it would make sense that they only release some classes and races with the final release of the game, so that players who have played EA get some new stuff as well (aside from the other acts, obviously).
Posted By: mr_planescapist Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 26/03/21 01:53 PM
Real disappointing having so few classes/racesin BG3...But hey, tons of cinematic dialogues thats what counts right?
Pathfinder Wrath of the Rightheous in EA right now has an amazing amount of class content with still more to come, includes:

Alchemist: Chirurgeon, Grenadier, Vivisectionist
Arcanist:
Barbarian: Armored Hulk, Invulnerable Rager, Mad Dog
Bard: Archaeologist, Dirge Bard, Flame Dancer, Thundercaller
Bloodrager:
Cavalier: Beast Rider, Disciple of the Pike, Gendarme, Knight of the Wall, Standard Bearer,
Cleric: Crusader, Ecclesitheurge, Herald Caller,
Druid: Blight Druid, Defender of the True World, Feyspeaker
Fighter: Aldori Defender, Armiger, Dragonheir Scion, Mutation Warrior, Tower Shield Specialist, Two-Handed Fighter
Inquisitor: Monster Tactician, Sacred Huntsmaster, Tactical Leader
Kineticist: Dark Elementalist, Kinetic Knight, Overwhelming Soul, Psychokineticist
Magus: Eldritch Archer, Eldritch Scion, Sword Saint
Monk: Scaled Fist, Sensei, Sohei, Traditional Monk, Zen Archer
Oracle:
Paladin: Divine Guardian, Divine Hunter, Hospitaler, Martyr, Warrior of Holy Light
Ranger: Flame Warden, Freebooter, Stormwalker
Rogue: Eldritch Scoundrel, Knife Master, Thug
Shaman: Possessed, Spirit Hunter, Spirit Warden, Unsworn Shaman, Witch Doctor
Skald: Battle Scion, Court Poet, Demon Dancer, Herald of the Horn, Hunt Caller
Slayer: Arcane Enforcer, Deliverer, Spawn Slayer, Vanguard
Sorcerer: Empyreal Sorcerer, Sage Sorcerer, Sylvan Sorcerer
Warpriest: Champion of the Faith, Cult Leader, Disenchanter, Feral Champion, Shieldbearer
Witch: Hagbound, Hex Channeler, Ley Line Guardian, Stigmatized Witch, Winter Witch
Wizard: Arcane Bomber, Exploiter Wizard, Scroll Savant, Thassilonian Specialist

Prestige Classes:

Aldori Swordlord
Arcane Trickster
Assassin
Dragon Disciple
Duelist
Eldritch Knight
Hellknight
Mystic Theurge
Stalwart Defender
Student of War
Winter Witch
Posted By: Aishaddai Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 26/03/21 02:03 PM
In my opinion Wotr classes lack depth. I would consider the mythic paths to be more like classes that actually mean something. The actual "classes" are very much quantity over quality.
Posted By: Holokom Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 26/03/21 02:11 PM
Well Pathfinder is Pathfinder and not DnD.

Of curse Pathfinder includes a lot more options. Not even mentioning around 200 Options for Feats?
Some people like the extra complexity, but DnD has its own advantages. (Exspcially for non Combat Solutions)
(At least thats my opinion, since i played DnD 5, Pathfinder 1 and 2....Pathfinder has a way more complex Characterbuilder, but also depends on Combat for Gameplay... for DnD a Mystery is way easier to pull off for example, because you got a lot more options in that design category.)

But now: Back to Topic:
Posted By: Nyloth Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 26/03/21 03:12 PM
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
Real disappointing having so few classes/racesin BG3...But hey, tons of cinematic dialogues thats what counts right?
Pathfinder Wrath of the Rightheous in EA right now has an amazing amount of class content with still more to come, includes:

Alchemist: Chirurgeon, Grenadier, Vivisectionist
Arcanist:
Barbarian: Armored Hulk, Invulnerable Rager, Mad Dog
Bard: Archaeologist, Dirge Bard, Flame Dancer, Thundercaller
Bloodrager:
Cavalier: Beast Rider, Disciple of the Pike, Gendarme, Knight of the Wall, Standard Bearer,
Cleric: Crusader, Ecclesitheurge, Herald Caller,
Druid: Blight Druid, Defender of the True World, Feyspeaker
Fighter: Aldori Defender, Armiger, Dragonheir Scion, Mutation Warrior, Tower Shield Specialist, Two-Handed Fighter
Inquisitor: Monster Tactician, Sacred Huntsmaster, Tactical Leader
Kineticist: Dark Elementalist, Kinetic Knight, Overwhelming Soul, Psychokineticist
Magus: Eldritch Archer, Eldritch Scion, Sword Saint
Monk: Scaled Fist, Sensei, Sohei, Traditional Monk, Zen Archer
Oracle:
Paladin: Divine Guardian, Divine Hunter, Hospitaler, Martyr, Warrior of Holy Light
Ranger: Flame Warden, Freebooter, Stormwalker
Rogue: Eldritch Scoundrel, Knife Master, Thug
Shaman: Possessed, Spirit Hunter, Spirit Warden, Unsworn Shaman, Witch Doctor
Skald: Battle Scion, Court Poet, Demon Dancer, Herald of the Horn, Hunt Caller
Slayer: Arcane Enforcer, Deliverer, Spawn Slayer, Vanguard
Sorcerer: Empyreal Sorcerer, Sage Sorcerer, Sylvan Sorcerer
Warpriest: Champion of the Faith, Cult Leader, Disenchanter, Feral Champion, Shieldbearer
Witch: Hagbound, Hex Channeler, Ley Line Guardian, Stigmatized Witch, Winter Witch
Wizard: Arcane Bomber, Exploiter Wizard, Scroll Savant, Thassilonian Specialist

Prestige Classes:

Aldori Swordlord
Arcane Trickster
Assassin
Dragon Disciple
Duelist
Eldritch Knight
Hellknight
Mystic Theurge
Stalwart Defender
Student of War
Winter Witch

And this is too much and this is why sometimes Ii hate Pathfinder. They complicate everything, they make everything too complicated that you need to sit and delve into the information for hours. It's okay if there are not too much classes, as long as they are interesting and well-developed.
Posted By: fallenj Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 26/03/21 03:40 PM
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
Real disappointing having so few classes/racesin BG3...But hey, tons of cinematic dialogues thats what counts right?
Pathfinder Wrath of the Rightheous in EA right now has an amazing amount of class content with still more to come, includes:

Alchemist: Chirurgeon, Grenadier, Vivisectionist
Arcanist:
Barbarian: Armored Hulk, Invulnerable Rager, Mad Dog
Bard: Archaeologist, Dirge Bard, Flame Dancer, Thundercaller
Bloodrager:
Cavalier: Beast Rider, Disciple of the Pike, Gendarme, Knight of the Wall, Standard Bearer,
Cleric: Crusader, Ecclesitheurge, Herald Caller,
Druid: Blight Druid, Defender of the True World, Feyspeaker
Fighter: Aldori Defender, Armiger, Dragonheir Scion, Mutation Warrior, Tower Shield Specialist, Two-Handed Fighter
Inquisitor: Monster Tactician, Sacred Huntsmaster, Tactical Leader
Kineticist: Dark Elementalist, Kinetic Knight, Overwhelming Soul, Psychokineticist
Magus: Eldritch Archer, Eldritch Scion, Sword Saint
Monk: Scaled Fist, Sensei, Sohei, Traditional Monk, Zen Archer
Oracle:
Paladin: Divine Guardian, Divine Hunter, Hospitaler, Martyr, Warrior of Holy Light
Ranger: Flame Warden, Freebooter, Stormwalker
Rogue: Eldritch Scoundrel, Knife Master, Thug
Shaman: Possessed, Spirit Hunter, Spirit Warden, Unsworn Shaman, Witch Doctor
Skald: Battle Scion, Court Poet, Demon Dancer, Herald of the Horn, Hunt Caller
Slayer: Arcane Enforcer, Deliverer, Spawn Slayer, Vanguard
Sorcerer: Empyreal Sorcerer, Sage Sorcerer, Sylvan Sorcerer
Warpriest: Champion of the Faith, Cult Leader, Disenchanter, Feral Champion, Shieldbearer
Witch: Hagbound, Hex Channeler, Ley Line Guardian, Stigmatized Witch, Winter Witch
Wizard: Arcane Bomber, Exploiter Wizard, Scroll Savant, Thassilonian Specialist

Prestige Classes:

Aldori Swordlord
Arcane Trickster
Assassin
Dragon Disciple
Duelist
Eldritch Knight
Hellknight
Mystic Theurge
Stalwart Defender
Student of War
Winter Witch

That's a sequel, most of that crap is carried over from kingmaker.

Try comparing kingmaker to this one.
Posted By: Warlocke Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 26/03/21 04:04 PM
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
Real disappointing having so few classes/racesin BG3...But hey, tons of cinematic dialogues thats what counts right?
Pathfinder Wrath of the Rightheous in EA right now has an amazing amount of class content with still more to come, includes:

Alchemist: Chirurgeon, Grenadier, Vivisectionist
Arcanist:
Barbarian: Armored Hulk, Invulnerable Rager, Mad Dog
Bard: Archaeologist, Dirge Bard, Flame Dancer, Thundercaller
Bloodrager:
Cavalier: Beast Rider, Disciple of the Pike, Gendarme, Knight of the Wall, Standard Bearer,
Cleric: Crusader, Ecclesitheurge, Herald Caller,
Druid: Blight Druid, Defender of the True World, Feyspeaker
Fighter: Aldori Defender, Armiger, Dragonheir Scion, Mutation Warrior, Tower Shield Specialist, Two-Handed Fighter
Inquisitor: Monster Tactician, Sacred Huntsmaster, Tactical Leader
Kineticist: Dark Elementalist, Kinetic Knight, Overwhelming Soul, Psychokineticist
Magus: Eldritch Archer, Eldritch Scion, Sword Saint
Monk: Scaled Fist, Sensei, Sohei, Traditional Monk, Zen Archer
Oracle:
Paladin: Divine Guardian, Divine Hunter, Hospitaler, Martyr, Warrior of Holy Light
Ranger: Flame Warden, Freebooter, Stormwalker
Rogue: Eldritch Scoundrel, Knife Master, Thug
Shaman: Possessed, Spirit Hunter, Spirit Warden, Unsworn Shaman, Witch Doctor
Skald: Battle Scion, Court Poet, Demon Dancer, Herald of the Horn, Hunt Caller
Slayer: Arcane Enforcer, Deliverer, Spawn Slayer, Vanguard
Sorcerer: Empyreal Sorcerer, Sage Sorcerer, Sylvan Sorcerer
Warpriest: Champion of the Faith, Cult Leader, Disenchanter, Feral Champion, Shieldbearer
Witch: Hagbound, Hex Channeler, Ley Line Guardian, Stigmatized Witch, Winter Witch
Wizard: Arcane Bomber, Exploiter Wizard, Scroll Savant, Thassilonian Specialist

Prestige Classes:

Aldori Swordlord
Arcane Trickster
Assassin
Dragon Disciple
Duelist
Eldritch Knight
Hellknight
Mystic Theurge
Stalwart Defender
Student of War
Winter Witch

Expressing your concerns and disappointment with this game is a perfectly reasonable and appropriate use of this forum. You have every right to do that.

Going in to every thread, including threads that exist solely to request clarification or information, to bitch about the game is being a nuisance. Grow up.
Posted By: Danielbda Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 26/03/21 04:28 PM
Originally Posted by Holokom
Well Pathfinder is Pathfinder and not DnD.

Of curse Pathfinder includes a lot more options. Not even mentioning around 200 Options for Feats?
Some people like the extra complexity, but DnD has its own advantages. (Exspcially for non Combat Solutions)
(At least thats my opinion, since i played DnD 5, Pathfinder 1 and 2....Pathfinder has a way more complex Characterbuilder, but also depends on Combat for Gameplay... for DnD a Mystery is way easier to pull off for example, because you got a lot more options in that design category.)

But now: Back to Topic:
I don't think his point is to compare the systems directly, but to compare how close they are to implementing the source matherial compared to BG3.
BG3 at this point is missing many classes, reaces, most of the subclasses and feats of the PHB whereas WotR has implemented most, and both are in early access (WotR with 2 yrs development vs 4 yrs for BG3). What is implemented in BG3 does not work as in the books as well.
So I think is a fair comparison.
Posted By: Baldurs-Gate-Fan Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 26/03/21 04:39 PM
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
Real disappointing having so few classes/racesin BG3...But hey, tons of cinematic dialogues thats what counts right?
Pathfinder Wrath of the Rightheous in EA right now has an amazing amount of class content with still more to come, includes:

Alchemist: Chirurgeon, Grenadier, Vivisectionist
Arcanist:
Barbarian: Armored Hulk, Invulnerable Rager, Mad Dog
Bard: Archaeologist, Dirge Bard, Flame Dancer, Thundercaller
Bloodrager:
Cavalier: Beast Rider, Disciple of the Pike, Gendarme, Knight of the Wall, Standard Bearer,
Cleric: Crusader, Ecclesitheurge, Herald Caller,
Druid: Blight Druid, Defender of the True World, Feyspeaker
Fighter: Aldori Defender, Armiger, Dragonheir Scion, Mutation Warrior, Tower Shield Specialist, Two-Handed Fighter
Inquisitor: Monster Tactician, Sacred Huntsmaster, Tactical Leader
Kineticist: Dark Elementalist, Kinetic Knight, Overwhelming Soul, Psychokineticist
Magus: Eldritch Archer, Eldritch Scion, Sword Saint
Monk: Scaled Fist, Sensei, Sohei, Traditional Monk, Zen Archer
Oracle:
Paladin: Divine Guardian, Divine Hunter, Hospitaler, Martyr, Warrior of Holy Light
Ranger: Flame Warden, Freebooter, Stormwalker
Rogue: Eldritch Scoundrel, Knife Master, Thug
Shaman: Possessed, Spirit Hunter, Spirit Warden, Unsworn Shaman, Witch Doctor
Skald: Battle Scion, Court Poet, Demon Dancer, Herald of the Horn, Hunt Caller
Slayer: Arcane Enforcer, Deliverer, Spawn Slayer, Vanguard
Sorcerer: Empyreal Sorcerer, Sage Sorcerer, Sylvan Sorcerer
Warpriest: Champion of the Faith, Cult Leader, Disenchanter, Feral Champion, Shieldbearer
Witch: Hagbound, Hex Channeler, Ley Line Guardian, Stigmatized Witch, Winter Witch
Wizard: Arcane Bomber, Exploiter Wizard, Scroll Savant, Thassilonian Specialist

Prestige Classes:

Aldori Swordlord
Arcane Trickster
Assassin
Dragon Disciple
Duelist
Eldritch Knight
Hellknight
Mystic Theurge
Stalwart Defender
Student of War
Winter Witch


I had a chance now to actually play it..... holy shit this game is so much ahead of bg3 content and gameplay wise....

But to its Defence.... visuals and sound in bg3 is unmatched realy.
And I think that the main reason you can’t compare them even if both have their roots in DnD rules.

Making such stunning visuals and Voiceover you simply can’t have a comparable content. Even if 5e wasn’t a simplified ruleset there would be no way to implement that number of features and still making such awesome visuals. As a developer you have to make a choice between visuals and content focus. And by now we know that their target audience where never BG1 +2 fans.

So going this route makes sense because it gives them a totaly different target audience and they don’t have to compete with this monster of game that wrath of righteous is.
Posted By: DuskHorseman Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 26/03/21 05:09 PM
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
Real disappointing having so few classes/racesin BG3...But hey, tons of cinematic dialogues thats what counts right?
Pathfinder Wrath of the Rightheous in EA right now has an amazing amount of class content with still more to come, includes:

Alchemist: Chirurgeon, Grenadier, Vivisectionist
Arcanist:
Barbarian: Armored Hulk, Invulnerable Rager, Mad Dog
Bard: Archaeologist, Dirge Bard, Flame Dancer, Thundercaller
Bloodrager:
Cavalier: Beast Rider, Disciple of the Pike, Gendarme, Knight of the Wall, Standard Bearer,
Cleric: Crusader, Ecclesitheurge, Herald Caller,
Druid: Blight Druid, Defender of the True World, Feyspeaker
Fighter: Aldori Defender, Armiger, Dragonheir Scion, Mutation Warrior, Tower Shield Specialist, Two-Handed Fighter
Inquisitor: Monster Tactician, Sacred Huntsmaster, Tactical Leader
Kineticist: Dark Elementalist, Kinetic Knight, Overwhelming Soul, Psychokineticist
Magus: Eldritch Archer, Eldritch Scion, Sword Saint
Monk: Scaled Fist, Sensei, Sohei, Traditional Monk, Zen Archer
Oracle:
Paladin: Divine Guardian, Divine Hunter, Hospitaler, Martyr, Warrior of Holy Light
Ranger: Flame Warden, Freebooter, Stormwalker
Rogue: Eldritch Scoundrel, Knife Master, Thug
Shaman: Possessed, Spirit Hunter, Spirit Warden, Unsworn Shaman, Witch Doctor
Skald: Battle Scion, Court Poet, Demon Dancer, Herald of the Horn, Hunt Caller
Slayer: Arcane Enforcer, Deliverer, Spawn Slayer, Vanguard
Sorcerer: Empyreal Sorcerer, Sage Sorcerer, Sylvan Sorcerer
Warpriest: Champion of the Faith, Cult Leader, Disenchanter, Feral Champion, Shieldbearer
Witch: Hagbound, Hex Channeler, Ley Line Guardian, Stigmatized Witch, Winter Witch
Wizard: Arcane Bomber, Exploiter Wizard, Scroll Savant, Thassilonian Specialist

Prestige Classes:

Aldori Swordlord
Arcane Trickster
Assassin
Dragon Disciple
Duelist
Eldritch Knight
Hellknight
Mystic Theurge
Stalwart Defender
Student of War
Winter Witch

Mate, Pathfinder is an entirely different system. You're comparing a massive banquet to a gourmet cheeseburger. Both are good, and high-quality, but also entirely different things. There just flat-out aren't that many classes in 5e compared to Pathfinder. This gripe isn't with the game, it's with 5e, and I suggest that you put your criticisms of that system in the areas where they are most relevant.
Posted By: Baldurs-Gate-Fan Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 26/03/21 05:46 PM
Originally Posted by DuskHorseman
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
Real disappointing having so few classes/racesin BG3...But hey, tons of cinematic dialogues thats what counts right?
Pathfinder Wrath of the Rightheous in EA right now has an amazing amount of class content with still more to come, includes:

Alchemist: Chirurgeon, Grenadier, Vivisectionist
Arcanist:
Barbarian: Armored Hulk, Invulnerable Rager, Mad Dog
Bard: Archaeologist, Dirge Bard, Flame Dancer, Thundercaller
Bloodrager:
Cavalier: Beast Rider, Disciple of the Pike, Gendarme, Knight of the Wall, Standard Bearer,
Cleric: Crusader, Ecclesitheurge, Herald Caller,
Druid: Blight Druid, Defender of the True World, Feyspeaker
Fighter: Aldori Defender, Armiger, Dragonheir Scion, Mutation Warrior, Tower Shield Specialist, Two-Handed Fighter
Inquisitor: Monster Tactician, Sacred Huntsmaster, Tactical Leader
Kineticist: Dark Elementalist, Kinetic Knight, Overwhelming Soul, Psychokineticist
Magus: Eldritch Archer, Eldritch Scion, Sword Saint
Monk: Scaled Fist, Sensei, Sohei, Traditional Monk, Zen Archer
Oracle:
Paladin: Divine Guardian, Divine Hunter, Hospitaler, Martyr, Warrior of Holy Light
Ranger: Flame Warden, Freebooter, Stormwalker
Rogue: Eldritch Scoundrel, Knife Master, Thug
Shaman: Possessed, Spirit Hunter, Spirit Warden, Unsworn Shaman, Witch Doctor
Skald: Battle Scion, Court Poet, Demon Dancer, Herald of the Horn, Hunt Caller
Slayer: Arcane Enforcer, Deliverer, Spawn Slayer, Vanguard
Sorcerer: Empyreal Sorcerer, Sage Sorcerer, Sylvan Sorcerer
Warpriest: Champion of the Faith, Cult Leader, Disenchanter, Feral Champion, Shieldbearer
Witch: Hagbound, Hex Channeler, Ley Line Guardian, Stigmatized Witch, Winter Witch
Wizard: Arcane Bomber, Exploiter Wizard, Scroll Savant, Thassilonian Specialist

Prestige Classes:

Aldori Swordlord
Arcane Trickster
Assassin
Dragon Disciple
Duelist
Eldritch Knight
Hellknight
Mystic Theurge
Stalwart Defender
Student of War
Winter Witch

Mate, Pathfinder is an entirely different system. You're comparing a massive banquet to a gourmet cheeseburger. Both are good, and high-quality, but also entirely different things. There just flat-out aren't that many classes in 5e compared to Pathfinder. This gripe isn't with the game, it's with 5e, and I suggest that you put your criticisms of that system in the areas where they are most relevant.


Well different system isn’t fully true. It’s a different edition of DnD. It’s an improved 3.5 DnD ruleset. So it depends on the viewpoint. And if someone’s personal DnD experience is based on 3.5 or earlier then pathfinder ist more DnD than 5e.

If you DnD experience is based on DnD 4.0 or later then it’s a totally different system.

For Videogames if neverwinter online is your personal best DnD game then pathfinder sucks. If you like any games before NW online then pathfinder is more like them than bg3
Posted By: CJMPinger Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 26/03/21 06:11 PM
Pathfinder is a completely different system. On classes and subclasses we have an actual chance to get if Larian gets closer to 5e (* means already in BG3. PHB = Player's Handbook, XGE = Xanathar's Guide to Everything, TCE = Tasha's Guide to Everything, SCAG = Sword Coast's Adventurer Guide, EGW = Explorer's Guide to Wildmount, DMG = Dungeon Master's Guide):

Wizard*-
- PHB: School of Abjuration*, School of Conjuration, School of Divination, School of Enchantment, School of Evocation*, School of Illusion, School of Necromancy, School of Transmutation
- XGE: School of War Magic
- TCE: Bladesinger, Order of Scrubes
- EGW (Wildmount stuff seems unlikely but will list regardless): School of Chronurgy, School of Graviturgy

Warlock*:
-Patrons
- PHB: Archfey, Fiend*, Great Old One*
- SCAG: Undying
- XGE: Hexblade, Celestial
- TCE: Genie, Fathomless
-Pact Boons
- PHB: Pact of the Chain*, Pact of the Blade, Pact of the Tome
- TCE: Pact of the Talisman

Sorcerer:
- PHB: Draconic Bloodline, Wild Magic
- XGE: Divine Soul, Shadow, Storm,
- TCE: Aberrant Mind, Clockwork Soul

Rogue*:
- PHB: Arcane Trickster*, Assassin, Thief*
- XGE: Inquisitive, Mastermind, Scout, Swashbuckler
- TCE: Soulknife, Phantom

Ranger*:
-TCE Optional Features (Worth Listing here because they change Ranger.): Favored Foe, Deft Explorer, Primal Awareness, Nature's Veil, Primal Companion (Beast Master)
- PHB: Beast Master*, Hunter*
- XGE: Gloom Stalker, Horizon Walker, Monster Slayer
- TCE: Fey Wanderer, Swarmkeeper

Paladin:
- PHB: Ancients, Devotion, Vengeance
- DMG: Oathbreaker
- SCAG: Crown
- XGE: Conquest, Redemption
- TCE: Glory, Watchers

Monk:
- PHB: Four Elements, Open Hand, Shadow
- SCAG: Long Death
- XGE: Drunken Master, Kensei, Sun Soul
- TCE: Astral Self, Mercy

Fighter*:
- PHB: Battle master*, Champion, Eldritch Knight*
- SCAG: Banneret
- XGE: Arcane Archer, Cavalier, Samurai
- TCE: Psi Warrior, Rune Knight
- EGW: Echo Knight

Druid*:
- PHB: Land*, Moon*
- XGE: Dreams, Shepherd
- TCE: Spores, Stars, Wildfire

Cleric*:
- PHB: Life*, Light*, Trickery*, Knowledge, Nature, Tempest, War
- DMG: Death
- SCAG: Arcana
- XGE: Forge, Grave
- TCE: Order, Peace, Twilight

Bard:
- PHB: Lore. Valor
- XGE: Glamour, Swords, Whispers
- TCE: Creation, Eloquence

Barbarian:
- PHB: Berserker, Totem Warrior
- SCAG: Battlerager
- XGE: Zealot, Stormherald, Ancestral Guardian
- TCE: Wild Magic, Beast

Artificer:
TCE: Alchemist, Armorer, Artillerist, Battle Smith

(Very Unlikely but listed on D&D Beyond so worth mentioning)
Bloodhunter:
- D&D Beyond: Order of the Ghostslayer, Order of the Lycan, Order of the Mutant, Order of the Profane Soul

Essentially that is every class (unless I missed one or two) that has the potential to be added to BG3. I would certainly hope that all of them get added (except maybe Bloodhunter, even though I love it, it is not considered "official" yet so hopefully it gets actually published at some point in an official book when it is fully balanced) so we get a complete D&D 5e experience where people can make whatever character they desire to make. Notably, most all of these classes were made with the Faerun setting in mind, especially those in XGE and SCAG but to a lesser extent TCE. So everything here would fit in BG3 lorewise. I do realize everything being added is a tall order and not that likely but a summoner can dream (atleast I'll get Conjuration Wizard).
Posted By: Danielbda Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 26/03/21 06:48 PM
Originally Posted by Baldurs-Gate-Fan
Making such stunning visuals and Voiceover you simply can’t have a comparable content. Even if 5e wasn’t a simplified ruleset there would be no way to implement that number of features and still making such awesome visuals. As a developer you have to make a choice between visuals and content focus.
There is no such choice. Games with high budget can have great visuals AND great gameplay as there are separate teams for each section. If the gameplay is underwhelming, it is their fault, not that they wanted to have great graphics and animation.
Kingmaker only has great gameplay because they only have money for that.
Posted By: CJMPinger Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 26/03/21 07:09 PM
Originally Posted by Danielbda
Originally Posted by Baldurs-Gate-Fan
Making such stunning visuals and Voiceover you simply can’t have a comparable content. Even if 5e wasn’t a simplified ruleset there would be no way to implement that number of features and still making such awesome visuals. As a developer you have to make a choice between visuals and content focus.
There is no such choice. Games with high budget can have great visuals AND great gameplay as there are separate teams for each section. If the gameplay is underwhelming, it is their fault, not that they wanted to have great graphics and animation.
Kingmaker only has great gameplay because they only have money for that.

Agreed, with the size of Larian's expanding team no choice should be made, and ideally you want both to be good or a balance to be achieved.
Posted By: etonbears Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 26/03/21 10:58 PM
Originally Posted by CJMPinger
Originally Posted by Danielbda
Originally Posted by Baldurs-Gate-Fan
Making such stunning visuals and Voiceover you simply can’t have a comparable content. Even if 5e wasn’t a simplified ruleset there would be no way to implement that number of features and still making such awesome visuals. As a developer you have to make a choice between visuals and content focus.
There is no such choice. Games with high budget can have great visuals AND great gameplay as there are separate teams for each section. If the gameplay is underwhelming, it is their fault, not that they wanted to have great graphics and animation.
Kingmaker only has great gameplay because they only have money for that.

Agreed, with the size of Larian's expanding team no choice should be made, and ideally you want both to be good or a balance to be achieved.

All games have limitations due to budgets, and almost all developers want to do more than they actually manage to deliver.

Low sophistication A/V games such as, say, Solasta can prototype and modify gameplay much more readily, because they do not also need to reflect/integrate that in the way the game/characters/environment react; generally they use text/prompts and screen-aligned VFX.

In contrast, it is much more costly, in development terms, to rework systems in games with more sophisticated A/V. That development cost is probably why we have so many hold-overs from D:OS and why they want to make the reaction system automatic.

It is, of course, perfectly possible for Larian to change the entire mechanics of the EA experience, but that would be at a significant cost to the breadth or depth in the game ( less races/classes/monsters, less story content/sidequests ).

What Larian are doing may not be perfect, but I would much prefer they deliver as much of their game vision as possible in the direction they are heading, rather than alter course and run aground ( or get wedged in the Suez Canal smile ).
Posted By: Holokom Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 26/03/21 11:50 PM
Well another thing you need to keep in mind is the target audience.

When you add 5 Subklasses to every class....and include all spells, the game gets a lot more complicated.

More Options to choose for new players that are not familiar with dnd, and they said they are their target... so jeah. dont expect more, and i honestly wouldnt want more.
Posted By: Mauru Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 27/03/21 01:48 AM
Tbh I am not hell-bent about this having to include everything from the rulebook(s) to the letter. I enjoyed BG1/2 and its setting long before I ever played the PnP. If they can polish up what we have in EA, add/modify a couple more systems and multiply that x3 into an interesting arc I will be satisfied.
So far I really like what we have in terms of character/story-development and the combat overall feels decent enough for the state that it is in (pending lots of polish). In the end I like my battles to be a challenging tactical experience and most of my issues with the game don't necessarily need a strict adherence to the 5e ruleset to be fixed.

As much as I enjoyed Kingmaker and am intrigued by Solasta, BG3 feels like it already has its own niche.
Posted By: Merlex Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 27/03/21 06:41 PM
Originally Posted by Holokom
Well according to their Anwsers from Streams etc we get:

3 Acts of Gameplay Content, ATM we got an area thats roughly the first act. Underdark is second act, but we are missing out on some areas so its about the same.


Races: All PHB Options mean:

Human, Woodelf, Highelf, Drow, Halfelf. Hill Dwarf, Mountain Dwarf, Halfling, Tiefling.

Missing but will come according to this Statement: Dragonborn, Halforc, Gnome. (Dragonborn have Breathattacks, Halforcs are just utterly OP for Fighting, and Gnomes are resistant to magic)


Classes:

Fighter: Battlemaster, Eldritchknight- (Champion is still missing from Phb)
Ranger: (got a complete overhaul and is different from normal DnD, no comparision possible)
Druid: Circle of Land, Circle of the Moon (Complete)
Cleric: Life Domain, Light Domain, Trickery Domain. (Missing: Knowledge, Nature and Tempest Domain)
Wizard: Abjuration and Evocation are in. (Transmutation, Divination, Enchantment,Conjuration, Necromancy and Illusion are Missing)
Rouge: Thief and Arcane Trickster are in ( Assasin is still missing)
Warlock: Fiend and Great Old one are in. (Archfey is missing)

Barbarian: Berserker and Totem Warrior (All Missing)
Bard: College of Lore, College of War (All Missing)
Sorceror: Draconic Bloodline, Wildmagic (All Missing)
Paladin: Oath of the Ancients, Oath of Devotion (All Missing)
Monk: Way of the Open Hand, Way of the Elements, Way of the Shadow (All Missing)

Also Paladin: Oath of Vengeance is missing.
Posted By: Merlex Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 27/03/21 07:19 PM
Originally Posted by Holokom
Well another thing you need to keep in mind is the target audience.

When you add 5 Subklasses to every class....and include all spells, the game gets a lot more complicated.

More Options to choose for new players that are not familiar with dnd, and they said they are their target... so jeah. dont expect more, and i honestly wouldnt want more.

They also stated that we would get all of the PBH content. Now I'm sure they will fall short. But the subclasses we got now are too bare bones for the Cleric and Wizard. Cleric : heal, blast, or trick. Wizard: blast or buff and attack. I don't expect everything, here's what I expect (hope) will be added from the PHB:

Wizard Specialists: Enchanter, Necromancer, Diviner, Illusionist.
Cleric Domains: War, Tempest, and I hope for Death (DMG).
Rogue: Assassin.
Paladin Oaths: Vengeance, Devotion, Ancients, and I hope for the Oath Breaker (DMG).
Sorcerer: Draconic Bloodline, Wild Magic
Bard Colleges: Lore, War.
Monk Traditions: Open Hand, Shadow.

As for content outside the PBH and DMG, I'm ok if they just let modders add it. But my wishlist is: War and Gravity Wizards, Scout and Swashbuckler Rogues, Hexblade and Celestial Warlocks, Gloomstalker Ranger, Cavalier and Samurai Fighters, Oath of Conquest Paladin, Drunken Master Monk, Divine Soul and Shadow Sorcerers, Battle Smith and Artillerist Artificers. As for Tasha's, those subclasses are way, way over powered. I wouldn't allow them in a campaign I was DMing., without some serious nerfing.
Posted By: Tabuk Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 27/03/21 07:40 PM
I would much rather have another ACT, like Act 4, then worry about a few classes and races missing. Content over Race/Class, any day.
Posted By: CJMPinger Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 27/03/21 09:28 PM
Originally Posted by Tabuk
I would much rather have another ACT, like Act 4, then worry about a few classes and races missing. Content over Race/Class, any day.

Classes are part of the content IMO, and greater variety means greater replay-ability and options for varied parties even if using the same characters.
Posted By: etonbears Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 27/03/21 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by Tabuk
I would much rather have another ACT, like Act 4, then worry about a few classes and races missing. Content over Race/Class, any day.

I completely agree, the breadth and depth of game content is most important.

DnD started with just Fighter, Cleric & Wizard; with Thief added by the second printing. What made DnD interesting then was the very distinct nature of each class, leading to the need for a full party to tackle a typical DnD adventure; but that has been consistently diluted.

There are now so many classes, subclasses, races and other options for tailoring a character, that you might as well not have a class system at all.

In fact, I have always preferred games that allowed you to choose your development direction freely, and this also has the advantage that it removes the endless ( and pointless ) arguments about "balancing" between classes.
Posted By: 1varangian Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 27/03/21 09:57 PM
Originally Posted by Holokom
Cleric: Life Domain, Light Domain, Trickery Domain. (Missing: Knowledge, Nature and Tempest Domain)

War and Death?

Hope Clerics get even more domains, there are many gods available that need fitting domains.

And I hope they get restricted by Deities so we won't have nonsensical combinations like a Light Domain for Shar.


Selune - Knowledge, Light
Lathander - Light, Life
Tyr - Order, War

Shar - Death, Trickery
Lolth - Trickery, War


etc.
Posted By: mr_planescapist Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 28/03/21 12:39 AM
WELL, even BALDURS GATE 2, the PRIOR GAME of the series has more classes/kits. My point being it is still disappointing that there are so few options to choose from this <<<D^D game>>> (and it is different in so many Larian ways).
I dont care about <technicalities> like Pathfinder isnt D^D so its ok? or Pathfinder is a sequel its ok? Thats just an excuse for poor content inclusion. BG3 is VERY CLOSELY based on DOS2 so no excuse there. Its not a game built from scratch.
The graphics are great, class content is poor and looks to stay that way. Instead of having barrels, dipping, surfaces mechanics (stuff not really D^D) they couldn't of added some more interesting classes ? ? At least TONS more kits, not so hard to do. Add advantages/disadvantages.
Posted By: DiscountCanadian Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 28/03/21 12:54 AM
Originally Posted by CJMPinger
Pathfinder is a completely different system. On classes and subclasses we have an actual chance to get if Larian gets closer to 5e (* means already in BG3. PHB = Player's Handbook, XGE = Xanathar's Guide to Everything, TCE = Tasha's Guide to Everything, SCAG = Sword Coast's Adventurer Guide, EGW = Explorer's Guide to Wildmount, DMG = Dungeon Master's Guide):

Wizard*-
- PHB: School of Abjuration*, School of Conjuration, School of Divination, School of Enchantment, School of Evocation*, School of Illusion, School of Necromancy, School of Transmutation
- XGE: School of War Magic
- TCE: Bladesinger, Order of Scrubes
- EGW (Wildmount stuff seems unlikely but will list regardless): School of Chronurgy, School of Graviturgy

Warlock*:
-Patrons
- PHB: Archfey, Fiend*, Great Old One*
- SCAG: Undying
- XGE: Hexblade, Celestial
- TCE: Genie, Fathomless
-Pact Boons
- PHB: Pact of the Chain*, Pact of the Blade, Pact of the Tome
- TCE: Pact of the Talisman

Sorcerer:
- PHB: Draconic Bloodline, Wild Magic
- XGE: Divine Soul, Shadow, Storm,
- TCE: Aberrant Mind, Clockwork Soul

Rogue*:
- PHB: Arcane Trickster*, Assassin, Thief*
- XGE: Inquisitive, Mastermind, Scout, Swashbuckler
- TCE: Soulknife, Phantom

Ranger*:
-TCE Optional Features (Worth Listing here because they change Ranger.): Favored Foe, Deft Explorer, Primal Awareness, Nature's Veil, Primal Companion (Beast Master)
- PHB: Beast Master*, Hunter*
- XGE: Gloom Stalker, Horizon Walker, Monster Slayer
- TCE: Fey Wanderer, Swarmkeeper

Paladin:
- PHB: Ancients, Devotion, Vengeance
- DMG: Oathbreaker
- SCAG: Crown
- XGE: Conquest, Redemption
- TCE: Glory, Watchers

Monk:
- PHB: Four Elements, Open Hand, Shadow
- SCAG: Long Death
- XGE: Drunken Master, Kensei, Sun Soul
- TCE: Astral Self, Mercy

Fighter*:
- PHB: Battle master*, Champion, Eldritch Knight*
- SCAG: Banneret
- XGE: Arcane Archer, Cavalier, Samurai
- TCE: Psi Warrior, Rune Knight
- EGW: Echo Knight

Druid*:
- PHB: Land*, Moon*
- XGE: Dreams, Shepherd
- TCE: Spores, Stars, Wildfire

Cleric*:
- PHB: Life*, Light*, Trickery*, Knowledge, Nature, Tempest, War
- DMG: Death
- SCAG: Arcana
- XGE: Forge, Grave
- TCE: Order, Peace, Twilight

Bard:
- PHB: Lore. Valor
- XGE: Glamour, Swords, Whispers
- TCE: Creation, Eloquence

Barbarian:
- PHB: Berserker, Totem Warrior
- SCAG: Battlerager
- XGE: Zealot, Stormherald, Ancestral Guardian
- TCE: Wild Magic, Beast

Artificer:
TCE: Alchemist, Armorer, Artillerist, Battle Smith

(Very Unlikely but listed on D&D Beyond so worth mentioning)
Bloodhunter:
- D&D Beyond: Order of the Ghostslayer, Order of the Lycan, Order of the Mutant, Order of the Profane Soul

Essentially that is every class (unless I missed one or two) that has the potential to be added to BG3. I would certainly hope that all of them get added (except maybe Bloodhunter, even though I love it, it is not considered "official" yet so hopefully it gets actually published at some point in an official book when it is fully balanced) so we get a complete D&D 5e experience where people can make whatever character they desire to make. Notably, most all of these classes were made with the Faerun setting in mind, especially those in XGE and SCAG but to a lesser extent TCE. So everything here would fit in BG3 lorewise. I do realize everything being added is a tall order and not that likely but a summoner can dream (atleast I'll get Conjuration Wizard).

Exactly. There is so much yet to come, even if we are only counting the other base classes and the subclasses spanning the PHB, SCAG, and XGE. Not to mention the myriad of races/spells to be implemented on top of all of those. It's a lot to take on, but if Larian does this right, it will make for a lot of replayability!
Posted By: DuskHorseman Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 28/03/21 02:38 PM
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
WELL, even BALDURS GATE 2, the PRIOR GAME of the series has more classes/kits. My point being it is still disappointing that there are so few options to choose from this <<<D^D game>>> (and it is different in so many Larian ways).
I dont care about <technicalities> like Pathfinder isnt D^D so its ok? or Pathfinder is a sequel its ok? Thats just an excuse for poor content inclusion. BG3 is VERY CLOSELY based on DOS2 so no excuse there. Its not a game built from scratch.
The graphics are great, class content is poor and looks to stay that way. Instead of having barrels, dipping, surfaces mechanics (stuff not really D^D) they couldn't of added some more interesting classes ? ? At least TONS more kits, not so hard to do. Add advantages/disadvantages.
My friend, I see you here, and I oft wonder why you stay around. You seem displeased with the game immensely, and I believe that it does not make you happy. Baldur's Gate 2 used a different system, as well. And, as is often toted, this product is in Early Access. Many classes and subclasses from the PHB have yet to be implemented, but Larian has said they will upon full release. If I'm calculating correctly, there will be 12 classes and 40 subclasses (Or kits as you call them) in the full game. While there are admittedly more in Pathfinder, they're including all of the base PHB 5e classes. In BG2, they used the classes from 2e, and in PF:WotR, they're using classes from Pathfinder. They're all based on different TTRPGs. BG3 isn't based on DOS2, it's based on BG3. While it borrows elements from DOS2, it's a different game. You're comparing apples to oranges to pears to plums here, my friend. You're right, it's not built from scratch. They're basing it on the latest version of DnD instead of the one made by an entirely different company 12 years ago.
Posted By: spectralhunter Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 28/03/21 03:11 PM
I bought EA thinking it will last roughly a year give or take a couple of months. But knowing what I know now, I’m surprised Larian opened up EA this early. I regret buying this early.

Combat is completely unbalanced. The UI is a mess. Many of the core classes and races are not implemented yet. Larian should have waited till this coming summer to launch EA.

I think we won’t see the official launch until mid 2022 at the earliest. I hope I’m wrong.
Posted By: Vekkares Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 29/03/21 01:12 PM
[quote=Holokom]Well according to their Anwsers from Streams etc we get:

3 Acts of Gameplay Content, ATM we got an area thats roughly the first act. Underdark is second act, but we are missing out on some areas so its about the same.


Uh Where did you see that Underdark was Act 2? The entire EA is ACT I if im not mistaken........maybe review your statements?
Posted By: Elessaria666 Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 29/03/21 01:43 PM
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
I bought EA thinking it will last roughly a year give or take a couple of months. But knowing what I know now, I’m surprised Larian opened up EA this early. I regret buying this early.

Combat is completely unbalanced. The UI is a mess. Many of the core classes and races are not implemented yet. Larian should have waited till this coming summer to launch EA.

I think we won’t see the official launch until mid 2022 at the earliest. I hope I’m wrong.
One of the reasons games have EA is to fund extended development. Without EA Larian would not have been able to expand their workforce or add all the content to the game they want to. Buying EA is the same as buying the finished game. Playing the EA is entirely your choice, and not doing so loses you nothing in terms of the final release. Even using low-end figures EA has brought in $30-40m dollars of funding to make BG3 the best it can be. I think Autumn 2022 is more likely, with a class added every 8-10 weeks, then multi-classing for 15-20 weeks, and maybe level 5 and the rest of Act 1 unlocked just before release to get data for final polish.
Posted By: spectralhunter Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 29/03/21 02:44 PM
Originally Posted by Elessaria666
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
I bought EA thinking it will last roughly a year give or take a couple of months. But knowing what I know now, I’m surprised Larian opened up EA this early. I regret buying this early.

Combat is completely unbalanced. The UI is a mess. Many of the core classes and races are not implemented yet. Larian should have waited till this coming summer to launch EA.

I think we won’t see the official launch until mid 2022 at the earliest. I hope I’m wrong.
One of the reasons games have EA is to fund extended development. Without EA Larian would not have been able to expand their workforce or add all the content to the game they want to. Buying EA is the same as buying the finished game. Playing the EA is entirely your choice, and not doing so loses you nothing in terms of the final release. Even using low-end figures EA has brought in $30-40m dollars of funding to make BG3 the best it can be. I think Autumn 2022 is more likely, with a class added every 8-10 weeks, then multi-classing for 15-20 weeks, and maybe level 5 and the rest of Act 1 unlocked just before release to get data for final polish.

Oh I know that. But I will argue the longer a developer delays a game, the expectations rise sometimes to unattainable levels like say Cyberpunk.

I was just shocked how unbalanced this game is at this point in development. And it seems Larian isn’t swimming in funds or they wouldn’t have started EA this early.

And of course buying this early is my choice. I didn’t say I wasn’t going to buy it because I have buyers remorse. I meant I regret buying this early into EA when BG3 clearly has way more than a year before launch.
Posted By: Elessaria666 Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 29/03/21 02:59 PM
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Oh I know that. But I will argue the longer a developer delays a game, the expectations rise sometimes to unattainable levels like say Cyberpunk.

I was just shocked how unbalanced this game is at this point in development. And it seems Larian isn’t swimming in funds or they wouldn’t have started EA this early.

And of course buying this early is my choice. I didn’t say I wasn’t going to buy it because I have buyers remorse. I meant I regret buying this early into EA when BG3 clearly has way more than a year before launch.
Understandable, but remember that Larian was not/is not a AAA studio with the finance, infrastructure and resourcing that brings.

Divinity brought them success and market presence but BG3 is arguably their big break. They've tripled their workforce off the back of it and you can bet that has changed their ambitions for the project. I don't doubt they intended a year in EA but between high EA sales and coronavirus the scope of the project is a lot greater than was conceivable in November.
Posted By: spectralhunter Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 29/03/21 03:26 PM
Originally Posted by Elessaria666
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Oh I know that. But I will argue the longer a developer delays a game, the expectations rise sometimes to unattainable levels like say Cyberpunk.

I was just shocked how unbalanced this game is at this point in development. And it seems Larian isn’t swimming in funds or they wouldn’t have started EA this early.

And of course buying this early is my choice. I didn’t say I wasn’t going to buy it because I have buyers remorse. I meant I regret buying this early into EA when BG3 clearly has way more than a year before launch.
Understandable, but remember that Larian was not/is not a AAA studio with the finance, infrastructure and resourcing that brings.

Divinity brought them success and market presence but BG3 is arguably their big break. They've tripled their workforce off the back of it and you can bet that has changed their ambitions for the project. I don't doubt they intended a year in EA but between high EA sales and coronavirus the scope of the project is a lot greater than was conceivable in November.

Sure. All developers, even AAA ones have to manage budgets. But it’s hard for me to accept that this game is so far behind because of lack of funds. I think it’s just them choosing the prioritize certain things over others.

I don’t think Larian cared too much about combat mechanics or just gameplay mechanics in general. You can see it. They just copy pasted DOS and made some changes to sorta match 5e but it’s a sloppy job.

What they did spend a ton of money on is the voice acting and graphics. They went all out on that. BG3 is a very pretty dating simulator. It just makes for a very shallow game and I’m disappointed to say the least. It’s a shame really.
Posted By: Danielbda Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 29/03/21 03:32 PM
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by Elessaria666
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
I bought EA thinking it will last roughly a year give or take a couple of months. But knowing what I know now, I’m surprised Larian opened up EA this early. I regret buying this early.

Combat is completely unbalanced. The UI is a mess. Many of the core classes and races are not implemented yet. Larian should have waited till this coming summer to launch EA.

I think we won’t see the official launch until mid 2022 at the earliest. I hope I’m wrong.
One of the reasons games have EA is to fund extended development. Without EA Larian would not have been able to expand their workforce or add all the content to the game they want to. Buying EA is the same as buying the finished game. Playing the EA is entirely your choice, and not doing so loses you nothing in terms of the final release. Even using low-end figures EA has brought in $30-40m dollars of funding to make BG3 the best it can be. I think Autumn 2022 is more likely, with a class added every 8-10 weeks, then multi-classing for 15-20 weeks, and maybe level 5 and the rest of Act 1 unlocked just before release to get data for final polish.



I was just shocked how unbalanced this game is at this point in development. And it seems Larian isn’t swimming in funds or they wouldn’t have started EA this early.
Wouldn't bet on that. Larian has around 400 employees now, what makes them one of the biggest studios (studios, not companies btw) in the business. For the sake of comparison, Bioware post EA had around 320 employees.

I'm also worried for the current state of EA. To me, 4 years of development should've amounted to much more than it is now. I also don't like their apparent direction to divert heavily from the rules to make the game more similar to DOS.
Posted By: mrfuji3 Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 29/03/21 03:45 PM
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Oh I know that. But I will argue the longer a developer delays a game, the expectations rise sometimes to unattainable levels like say Cyberpunk.

I was just shocked how unbalanced this game is at this point in development. And it seems Larian isn’t swimming in funds or they wouldn’t have started EA this early.

And of course buying this early is my choice. I didn’t say I wasn’t going to buy it because I have buyers remorse. I meant I regret buying this early into EA when BG3 clearly has way more than a year before launch.
I think this is true only if the game keeps getting delayed. Personally, even if the release date is late 2022, I won't actually consider the game "delayed" as there's been no official release date announcement yet.
On the Steam page, Larian says they expect to be in Early Access for "at least one year...it'll be ready when it's ready." They don't say it'll be ready in around or exactly a year.

Cyberpunk's problem was the combination of multiple official delays, the long time in production after first announcement (like 5+ years), and finally the release of an laughably buggy product.
-Larian has already avoided the 2nd and 3rd problem by releasing a EA only a year and a half(?) after they first announced it, and after a few updates it is already less buggy than Cyberpunk was on last gen consoles
-As long as the game releases within 6 months of when Larian first states the official release will be, there's much less worry of the same hype that CP2077 got.
-Finally, there will just be less hype because BG3 is basically already out. There's less mystery and potential for build-up as people can actually see what gameplay/story is like.
Posted By: spectralhunter Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 29/03/21 04:57 PM
Originally Posted by mrfuji3
I think this is true only if the game keeps getting delayed. Personally, even if the release date is late 2022, I won't actually consider the game "delayed" as there's been no official release date announcement yet.
On the Steam page, Larian says they expect to be in Early Access for "at least one year...it'll be ready when it's ready." They don't say it'll be ready in around or exactly a year.

Cyberpunk's problem was the combination of multiple official delays, the long time in production after first announcement (like 5+ years), and finally the release of an laughably buggy product.
-Larian has already avoided the 2nd and 3rd problem by releasing a EA only a year and a half(?) after they first announced it, and after a few updates it is already less buggy than Cyberpunk was on last gen consoles
-As long as the game releases within 6 months of when Larian first states the official release will be, there's much less worry of the same hype that CP2077 got.
-Finally, there will just be less hype because BG3 is basically already out. There's less mystery and potential for build-up as people can actually see what gameplay/story is like.

Again, I understand my error. I should have waited till later in the EA.

“At least one year...it’ll be ready when it’s ready.” is business speak. It kinda dangles the idea that the game will be ready in roughly a year but then they cover their butts with the second clause. But as a consumer it is my job to know this.

Wasn’t BG3 supposed to go live Oct 2020, not just EA? I’m not criticizing them for delays but isn’t the game already delayed?
Posted By: DiscountCanadian Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 29/03/21 05:09 PM
I don't believe there was any indication that the game was supposed to fully release in October of last year. From my own following of events (I got caught up early on in the hype, still kinda hyped), the plan was to open up EA a bit earlier than October 2020, but due to COVID and other issues like flooding at the offices, it was pushed back. I'm not sure if you could really call that a delay in release since it is just EA.
Posted By: mrfuji3 Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 29/03/21 05:14 PM
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Again, I understand my error. I should have waited till later in the EA.

“At least one year...it’ll be ready when it’s ready.” is business speak. It kinda dangles the idea that the game will be ready in roughly a year but then they cover their butts with the second clause. But as a consumer it is my job to know this.

Wasn’t BG3 supposed to go live Oct 2020, not just EA? I’m not criticizing them for delays but isn’t the game already delayed?
I'm curious, why do you think you should have waited? You'll still have access to the game a year from now, so you've only benefitted from buying it now instead of later...unless you actively disliked your time playing it?

I'm almost 100% certain it wasn't supposed to be fully released Oct 2020. I believe EA was originally supposed to launch in late September 2020, but it got delayed for like 2 weeks. So yes, there was a delay, but it was a pretty small one all things considered.
Posted By: spectralhunter Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 29/03/21 05:28 PM
Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Again, I understand my error. I should have waited till later in the EA.

“At least one year...it’ll be ready when it’s ready.” is business speak. It kinda dangles the idea that the game will be ready in roughly a year but then they cover their butts with the second clause. But as a consumer it is my job to know this.

Wasn’t BG3 supposed to go live Oct 2020, not just EA? I’m not criticizing them for delays but isn’t the game already delayed?
I'm curious, why do you think you should have waited? You'll still have access to the game a year from now, so you've only benefitted from buying it now instead of later...unless you actively disliked your time playing it?

I'm almost 100% certain it wasn't supposed to be fully released Oct 2020. I believe EA was originally supposed to launch in late September 2020, but it got delayed for like 2 weeks. So yes, there was a delay, but it was a pretty small one all things considered.

I don’t want to be a paying (not paid) tester. Sure EA is for bugs and minor changes but at its current state, I don’t think it should have entered EA. Personally, EA shouldn’t be longer than a year. Six months is ideal to get the kinks out and build up hype.

Hype shouldn’t last almost two years. And developers shouldn’t expect paying customers to test their game for major changes. And if BG3 requires only minor changes, there’s no excuse to keep it in EA for almost two years.

I think as gamers we put up with way too much with developer antics.
Posted By: mrfuji3 Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 29/03/21 05:58 PM
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
I don’t want to be a paying (not paid) tester. Sure EA is for bugs and minor changes but at its current state, I don’t think it should have entered EA. Personally, EA shouldn’t be longer than a year. Six months is ideal to get the kinks out and build up hype.

Hype shouldn’t last almost two years. And developers shouldn’t expect paying customers to test their game for major changes. And if BG3 requires only minor changes, there’s no excuse to keep it in EA for almost two years.

I think as gamers we put up with way too much with developer antics.
I wouldn't say we're paying testers. We paid for the game and will get full access when it releases. It's more of a pre-order with the option to play (and test) it early as a volunteer tester.

But I understand your point. EAs should either* be short and focused on bug-fixing, or long and involve communication with the EA players and possibly big changes to the game based on said discussions. And, unfortunately, BG3 EA is seeming like it will be very long but focused mainly on bug fixing and releasing content that would be put in the main game anyway. Honestly, Larian probably could have waited 6 months to release EA, released with the Druid class, and not really lost any EA efficiency.

*In a perfect world, EAs are both short and involve discussions with players leading to big changes, but these situations are rare. I won't mention the game-that-must-not-be-named as a good example of such an EA.
Posted By: acatlas Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 30/03/21 05:44 PM
11 zones currently exist on the main map so accounting for that we have gotten to see 2 of those zones...so that means were still missing around 9 on the existing map.

Second point someone saying class content doesn't matter to some people that is one of the largest reasons that people got the game. Was the promised class content on launch to include all classes and subclasses in the 5e phb as well as all races. Weather that matters to you to several people or not means very little as it matters to some of the people who purchased the game on the content promised when the initial plans for live release were given. As well as it may not matter to several people because maybe they already got the class they wanted in the game but there are people still want those classes or subclasses not yet included in the game. There are people who will not buy the game until they are included even because the class / race they enjoy currently is not available. Its a very valid arguement to have them all included as well as multiclassing as was originally planned and mercenary options again originally planned as it matters. 11 zones existing is more than enough content for initial launch considering players have access to 2 of those zones and not even the full zone for the underdark. 11 zones is a lot of content to play through if your intending to play through all the content and while I personally do not expect to see that all initally in early access. I would like to see us get access to levels 5/6 and all the classes / races in early access. As they said they wanted the content tested and it should be. I am hoping we see news coming out soon as to Patch 5.0 Plans and another class as were getting in that range druid was the first real addition to the game and I would hope were not 4-5 months from druid before we see the next class added as at that rate it will be like 2024 before the game is full released with there original promise in design.

An ideal patch 5.0 would be 1 class 1 race and level 5/6 to existing classes. Even if they don't add any additional zones and we would see it before the end of april and we should be seeing news soon I would hope. Even if we have a few bugs its not that big of a deal. Right now with an initial planned release for October/September 2021 when game launced we should be seeing classes added every 2 months if they plan to make that dead line.

As an Example - I would not assume it accurate but like
April - Barbarian
June - Paladin
August - Bard
Sept - Sorcerer/Monk

As a delay to the full release could be understandable we should be seeing classes come out at those rates along with additional content / races / levels / abilities for testing. If Single moders can make mods to include those classes and races or close proximities on nexux mods and have all the additional classes and be adding additional subclasses not included in the phb already while not as ideal as what i would expect from Larian I would expect them to be able to release a class every 2 months with 400 actual people able to work on the project. Otherwise I would be reaching out to some of those moders and hiring additional people to make up for poor performance on existing staff.

Don't get me wrong I would expect better results from existing staff however they should already be at the point to match existing mods for classes and just improving those so it shouldn't exactly be hard to make those classes functional in a 2 month per class window.

I would expect them to be adding classes and races each patch at this point as well as additional items I was actually a little disappointed we only saw the druid last patch though glad to see new content. Logically you would be thinking they would have been working on tools to make implimenting classes to the game a lot easier during that time frame. Sadly a lot of the better moders for the game have disappeared at this point not updating existing mods because of poor communication prior to the release of the druid as of late they seem to have been a lot more active on the forums which is a big positive now its a question of will they keep that up or is it going to repeat. Also there are people that do not want to look at installing mods till the full version of the game is released. To avoid re-installing as much as possible as an example or having to remove mods for any reason during early access for patches ect.

So seeing additional classes and races come into early access is important at this point.

Additionally concerning an act 4 / additional game play through content ... as with the fact 20th level isnt expected at full release I would expect we would see those additional levels and that additional content with dlc patches as I expect we will get the artificer probably with DLC content. Since larion would probably with to continue making additional money as would wotc after the games full release and you want to keep the machine going. Getting additional classes / races and content is a good way to push that as well as will keep people busy after release while its being developed.
Posted By: Nyloth Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 30/03/21 07:05 PM
Originally Posted by acatlas
11 zones currently exist on the main map so accounting for that we have gotten to see 2 of those zones...so that means were still missing around 9 on the existing map.

Second point someone saying class content doesn't matter to some people that is one of the largest reasons that people got the game. Was the promised class content on launch to include all classes and subclasses in the 5e phb as well as all races. Weather that matters to you to several people or not means very little as it matters to some of the people who purchased the game on the content promised when the initial plans for live release were given. As well as it may not matter to several people because maybe they already got the class they wanted in the game but there are people still want those classes or subclasses not yet included in the game. There are people who will not buy the game until they are included even because the class / race they enjoy currently is not available. Its a very valid arguement to have them all included as well as multiclassing as was originally planned and mercenary options again originally planned as it matters. 11 zones existing is more than enough content for initial launch considering players have access to 2 of those zones and not even the full zone for the underdark. 11 zones is a lot of content to play through if your intending to play through all the content and while I personally do not expect to see that all initally in early access. I would like to see us get access to levels 5/6 and all the classes / races in early access. As they said they wanted the content tested and it should be. I am hoping we see news coming out soon as to Patch 5.0 Plans and another class as were getting in that range druid was the first real addition to the game and I would hope were not 4-5 months from druid before we see the next class added as at that rate it will be like 2024 before the game is full released with there original promise in design.

An ideal patch 5.0 would be 1 class 1 race and level 5/6 to existing classes. Even if they don't add any additional zones and we would see it before the end of april and we should be seeing news soon I would hope. Even if we have a few bugs its not that big of a deal. Right now with an initial planned release for October/September 2021 when game launced we should be seeing classes added every 2 months if they plan to make that dead line.

As an Example - I would not assume it accurate but like
April - Barbarian
June - Paladin
August - Bard
Sept - Sorcerer/Monk

As a delay to the full release could be understandable we should be seeing classes come out at those rates along with additional content / races / levels / abilities for testing. If Single moders can make mods to include those classes and races or close proximities on nexux mods and have all the additional classes and be adding additional subclasses not included in the phb already while not as ideal as what i would expect from Larian I would expect them to be able to release a class every 2 months with 400 actual people able to work on the project. Otherwise I would be reaching out to some of those moders and hiring additional people to make up for poor performance on existing staff.

Don't get me wrong I would expect better results from existing staff however they should already be at the point to match existing mods for classes and just improving those so it shouldn't exactly be hard to make those classes functional in a 2 month per class window.

I would expect them to be adding classes and races each patch at this point as well as additional items I was actually a little disappointed we only saw the druid last patch though glad to see new content. Logically you would be thinking they would have been working on tools to make implimenting classes to the game a lot easier during that time frame. Sadly a lot of the better moders for the game have disappeared at this point not updating existing mods because of poor communication prior to the release of the druid as of late they seem to have been a lot more active on the forums which is a big positive now its a question of will they keep that up or is it going to repeat. Also there are people that do not want to look at installing mods till the full version of the game is released. To avoid re-installing as much as possible as an example or having to remove mods for any reason during early access for patches ect.

So seeing additional classes and races come into early access is important at this point.

Additionally concerning an act 4 / additional game play through content ... as with the fact 20th level isnt expected at full release I would expect we would see those additional levels and that additional content with dlc patches as I expect we will get the artificer probably with DLC content. Since larion would probably with to continue making additional money as would wotc after the games full release and you want to keep the machine going. Getting additional classes / races and content is a good way to push that as well as will keep people busy after release while its being developed.

I'm sorry, but are you sure we're playing an actual client, not a sandbox? Because I'm not. It seems to me that the release client and the EA client are two different clients. So, in fact, many things may already be ready, but Larian does not want to add this things in EA client. For example, zones of the second act are already definitely available, other classes are in files and they were activated with mods.

It seems to me that it is a mistake to think "if this is not in EA, then it is not ready so game will be in 2024". I think there are just two different teams, one is engaged in adding content to EA, and other is engaged in actual client. This was seen on Larian's last stream. The fifth level, a dwarf in the camp, a dog with a glowing collar, and so on.
Posted By: fallenj Re: How many Acts? Classes? - 31/03/21 01:42 AM
Originally Posted by Nyloth
Originally Posted by acatlas
11 zones currently exist on the main map so accounting for that we have gotten to see 2 of those zones...so that means were still missing around 9 on the existing map.

Second point someone saying class content doesn't matter to some people that is one of the largest reasons that people got the game. Was the promised class content on launch to include all classes and subclasses in the 5e phb as well as all races. Weather that matters to you to several people or not means very little as it matters to some of the people who purchased the game on the content promised when the initial plans for live release were given. As well as it may not matter to several people because maybe they already got the class they wanted in the game but there are people still want those classes or subclasses not yet included in the game. There are people who will not buy the game until they are included even because the class / race they enjoy currently is not available. Its a very valid arguement to have them all included as well as multiclassing as was originally planned and mercenary options again originally planned as it matters. 11 zones existing is more than enough content for initial launch considering players have access to 2 of those zones and not even the full zone for the underdark. 11 zones is a lot of content to play through if your intending to play through all the content and while I personally do not expect to see that all initally in early access. I would like to see us get access to levels 5/6 and all the classes / races in early access. As they said they wanted the content tested and it should be. I am hoping we see news coming out soon as to Patch 5.0 Plans and another class as were getting in that range druid was the first real addition to the game and I would hope were not 4-5 months from druid before we see the next class added as at that rate it will be like 2024 before the game is full released with there original promise in design.

An ideal patch 5.0 would be 1 class 1 race and level 5/6 to existing classes. Even if they don't add any additional zones and we would see it before the end of april and we should be seeing news soon I would hope. Even if we have a few bugs its not that big of a deal. Right now with an initial planned release for October/September 2021 when game launced we should be seeing classes added every 2 months if they plan to make that dead line.

As an Example - I would not assume it accurate but like
April - Barbarian
June - Paladin
August - Bard
Sept - Sorcerer/Monk

As a delay to the full release could be understandable we should be seeing classes come out at those rates along with additional content / races / levels / abilities for testing. If Single moders can make mods to include those classes and races or close proximities on nexux mods and have all the additional classes and be adding additional subclasses not included in the phb already while not as ideal as what i would expect from Larian I would expect them to be able to release a class every 2 months with 400 actual people able to work on the project. Otherwise I would be reaching out to some of those moders and hiring additional people to make up for poor performance on existing staff.

Don't get me wrong I would expect better results from existing staff however they should already be at the point to match existing mods for classes and just improving those so it shouldn't exactly be hard to make those classes functional in a 2 month per class window.

I would expect them to be adding classes and races each patch at this point as well as additional items I was actually a little disappointed we only saw the druid last patch though glad to see new content. Logically you would be thinking they would have been working on tools to make implimenting classes to the game a lot easier during that time frame. Sadly a lot of the better moders for the game have disappeared at this point not updating existing mods because of poor communication prior to the release of the druid as of late they seem to have been a lot more active on the forums which is a big positive now its a question of will they keep that up or is it going to repeat. Also there are people that do not want to look at installing mods till the full version of the game is released. To avoid re-installing as much as possible as an example or having to remove mods for any reason during early access for patches ect.

So seeing additional classes and races come into early access is important at this point.

Additionally concerning an act 4 / additional game play through content ... as with the fact 20th level isnt expected at full release I would expect we would see those additional levels and that additional content with dlc patches as I expect we will get the artificer probably with DLC content. Since larion would probably with to continue making additional money as would wotc after the games full release and you want to keep the machine going. Getting additional classes / races and content is a good way to push that as well as will keep people busy after release while its being developed.

I'm sorry, but are you sure we're playing an actual client, not a sandbox? Because I'm not. It seems to me that the release client and the EA client are two different clients. So, in fact, many things may already be ready, but Larian does not want to add this things in EA client. For example, zones of the second act are already definitely available, other classes are in files and they were activated with mods.

It seems to me that it is a mistake to think "if this is not in EA, then it is not ready so game will be in 2024". I think there are just two different teams, one is engaged in adding content to EA, and other is engaged in actual client. This was seen on Larian's last stream. The fifth level, a dwarf in the camp, a dog with a glowing collar, and so on.

Pretty sure this was said a while back by the devs, sounds really familiar.
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