Larian Studios
So the events over at the BG3 subreddit last week were rather interesting, and some of the discussions in the locked thread we had over here about it did have a point in that we should be trying a bit harder to figure out how the overall community at large really feels about this game in places beyond these forums. Because let's face it, all of the communities are pretty echo-y right now, and nothing short of the devs holding their own comprehensive community polling will make things clear on what the community considers good or needs improvement from a gameplay sense. But that doesn't mean we can't try. A part of the motivation behind what I'm about to propose is that I wonder if those Reddit threads only gained as much attention as they did from everyone, precisely because they were the only real gameplay discussion threads in a sea of fluff and fanart in quite some time. And even that faded into obscurity after 2 days due to how Reddit is structured, with no possibility of bringing that discussion back up short of starting a new thread.

In the interests of trying to get some actual data on the feedback, I wonder if someone should try to get in touch with the BG3 subreddit moderators to hold some kind of comprehensive polling within the community there, while everyone waits for the next patch. We could try doing it here, but the forum's population is a mere fraction of the BG3 subreddit, this forum doesn't even have a proper tool for polling, and it wouldn't tell us anything useful because we all know what the situation is like over here already. If we wait too long on this, more parts of the system that the community feels that need adjustments are likely to be finalized already.

That said, it's probably more important to figure out the formatting too, because everyone has different feelings on different aspects of the gameplay. For example, I personally don't give a damn about loaded dice because it's completely optional and not a core feature of the game, while others probably feel very strongly about it from the standpoint of the devs having invested time into creating the system in the first place.

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Right now, my tentative proposal consists of the following.

1) The polling will be entirely gameplay-focused. One could try to poll the community on the cinematics, story, and writing, but there's zero point because the general sentiment is that they're unanimously in a great state already, so polling on these subjects is an overall waste of time. The actual poll options can only really come off as being either vague and/or insulting too.

2) The polling should focus on a specific aspect of the gameplay, because once again, people have different opinions on different subjects. The complicated part is determining exactly what aspects of the gameplay deserve their own polling, and how. The questions should avoid any kind of generalization or vagueness.

3) The poll options should be a lot more varied than 'good/bad' options, and completely avoid making any comparisons to previous Larian games or 5E rules because that's realistically just going to de-rail the shit out of everything, instead of focusing the discussion towards whether the systems are good or bad on their own merits. Each question should have 3-4 options. The first option would stress a need for an immediate overhaul, the middle options would indicate that Larian is on the right track and that specific parts of the system just need to be adjusted (either toned town or in higher frequency), and the final option would state that everything about the systems are fine as is. I order the options like this due to knowing how communities in general tend to gravitate towards picking the status quo option as soon as they see it, and this is to steer everyone towards reading all of them first before picking one.

How people interpret the end results is up to them, but I would personally frame a heavier lean towards the first and middle options to mean that the system in question has pressing issues that should absolutely be addressed at some point during the EA, and a lean towards the middle and last options to mean that the systems are fine with some improvements (but implementing said improvements may not be higher priority among the community at large).

4) Each question should have 3 days of polling and discussion dedicated to it. The thread for the dedicated question should start out as a regular thread, then stickied by the subreddit moderators once it naturally falls off the front page (if it falls off during the allotted 3 days of polling), because everyone knows that people are far more inclined to completely ignore a thread that is stickied to begin with.

Of course, a lot of this hinges on the BG3 subreddit moderators even allowing such polling to be held to begin with. The way things are, there's perhaps only one real shot to do something like this, so it has to be done properly.

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So I think the first order of business is... What should be polled to begin with, and what should the options even look like? The actual order of the questions matters, because I suspect what will happen is that each subsequent question may naturally see a small number of participants dropping out, though each question being given 3 days of polling dedicated to them will hopefully minimize that effect.

Right now, I assume the most pressing issue is actually party/movement controls. A poll surrounding that topic could probably be specified towards the Chaining system in particular. So a sample poll about that can probably look like the below?

How do you feel about the current state of the party movement/chaining system?

1) Chaining is cumbersome to work with, and an entirely new system should be considered.

2) Chaining works fine, but there should be improvements made for ease of use (specify in the comments below)

3) Chaining is perfectly good as is.

(I would personally add that I could see adding a hotkey to immediately break the chains across party members/immediately re-chaining them solving a lot of grievances with the system, but I would not add that suggestion in option 2 itself, to prevent introducing any kind of personal bias to the polling.)

I imagine the second most pressing question would revolve around either backstab advantage or height advantage/disadvantage. I would propose a sample question on the latter as it could easily have 4 or even 5 options in the polling.

How do you feel about the high ground advantage/low ground disadvantage system?

1) Get rid of height-related modifiers entirely.

2) A bonus to being on high ground and a penalty to being on low ground is fine, but the exact bonus/penalty should be reduced from advantage/disadvantage into something else.

3) Gaining advantage (or a reduced bonus) for being on high ground is fine, but the disadvantage (or a reduced penalty) for being on low ground should be removed completely.

4) Gaining disadvantage (or a reduced penalty) for being on low ground is fine, but the advantage (or a reduced bonus) for being on high ground should be removed completely.

5) The system is perfectly fine as is.

Any thoughts?
My opinion is if you want to make a poll on Reddit, just make a normal post with a poll as anyone else would. People usually like polls, so you would likely get a lot of responses. Not sure why it would be stickied when other people's polls aren't, though.
Originally Posted by Icelyn
My opinion is if you want to make a poll on Reddit, just make a normal post with a poll as anyone else would. People usually like polls, so you would likely get a lot of responses. Not sure why it would be stickied when other people's polls aren't, though.

Again, it would be for visibility purposes, and all of the polls would be for the larger purpose of gauging very specific feedback on a wide range of topics that a single poll cannot convey. The sticking would only happen if a specific poll question falls off the front page before the allotted 3 days for the poll are up, so that the visibility would at least remain as consistent as possible. Or perhaps I should just shorten the allotted time to 2 days.
If you do make polls on reddit, could you post a link here? I'd love to participate!
Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
Again, it would be for visibility purposes, and all of the polls would be for the larger purpose of gauging very specific feedback on a wide range of topics that a single poll cannot convey. The sticking would only happen if a specific poll question falls off the front page before the allotted 3 days for the poll are up, so that the visibility would at least remain as consistent as possible. Or perhaps I should just shorten the allotted time to 2 days.
You also might be interested in these results from a gameplay poll that someone made back in Oct: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VWtKnvaXpC0y0j0h7syEGXSC2H92MmKt/view
It depends, do we want questions where the user is uninformed on the impacts to the game? I think it'd be interesting to see responses with no information and others that have a write up on how the changes would impact the game. Would we see a difference?
Originally Posted by Icelyn
Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
Again, it would be for visibility purposes, and all of the polls would be for the larger purpose of gauging very specific feedback on a wide range of topics that a single poll cannot convey. The sticking would only happen if a specific poll question falls off the front page before the allotted 3 days for the poll are up, so that the visibility would at least remain as consistent as possible. Or perhaps I should just shorten the allotted time to 2 days.
You also might be interested in these results from a gameplay poll that someone made back in Oct: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VWtKnvaXpC0y0j0h7syEGXSC2H92MmKt/view

Since I don't use Reddit ever, I completely missed out on this. Thank you for sharing, that was very interesting.

@OP - I have been wondering why Larian does not seem to engage in poll-systems. However, polls restricted to a certain platform will always only represent a minority of the community. I'd like to see them making an actual poll on their own that they announce within their game and their own social media - that would be the only way to reach as many people as possible.

However, I'd assume there is a reason Larian don't do this. I know they are collecting *a lot* of player data through EA so perhaps it is not even needed. I do not know. I do however approve of more polls. :]
Originally Posted by Icelyn
You also might be interested in these results from a gameplay poll that someone made back in Oct: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VWtKnvaXpC0y0j0h7syEGXSC2H92MmKt/view

Yeah, I know of this poll. That said, it was created back in October, back when everyone's perception of the game would be a bit more reactionary due to everything being new. Six months later, everyone would have the experience to understand how everything works now, which is why I think the polling needs to be re-visited.
First of all: I am not on Reddit.

The only relevant thing would be a poll from Larian itself.
As being said, no poll in one place will reach a sample of people that is representative for most players. Different groups meet in different places and different groups are also more or less likely to answer to polls than other groups.

For example Owlcat send several polls to all alpha and beta players, usually some time after they made big changes to the game. The polls were quite large and sometimes you could write what you liked or disliked or what could be done better. This was very good.

My suggestion to Larian:
When players finish the beta there is a question if they want to fill out a poll.
If they click yes there will be several questions what they liked, disliked or what can be done better.
When they finish the game, it means that the people who did the poll have actually played the game.
Each account ( from steam or gog ) can fill out the poll only once.
There may be a new poll after a big update.
Polls of any kind, whether official Larian polls or not, would be very valuable I think.
Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
this forum doesn't even have a proper tool for polling

It does, it's just not enabled; which I've now remembered I was supposed to be looking into, so I should get on with that. Can't help with the number of active members, though...
If Larian could setup a survey through the launcher somehow then it would be available to every single player of EA, regardless of platform. Players wouldn't have to be active in any online community, and they could ensure that everyone (who wants to) only completes it only once. It would really need to be open for at least a couple of weeks to ensure everyone had enough time to participate, and they could announce it on Steam and other active communities to ensure enough people are aware.
Yeah I like the idea of structuring it that way. But I get the feeling they won't volunteer certain questions to the community unless we clamor enough for them.
Great idea. I think that this would be a good start for a poll. I would like to see it extend to things like reactions / ready action / HP ect but nice job on setting up questions.
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Great idea. I think that this would be a good start for a poll. I would like to see it extend to things like reactions / ready action / HP ect but nice job on setting up questions.

Part of the thread is about trying to figure out exactly which questions to ask and what the options should be. Those two I would ask, but they’re also examples.

Also I am aware Larian doing the survey themselves is the best option, but they’re not at the moment and some questions they’ll probably never ask. At least not to any useful specifics.
You would probably be best posting polls on as many sites as possible. Not sure you would get many responses on Reddit since your poll would be about things that are actually important, and people probably won't even be able to find it after a couple of hours because it isn't about romance....
Originally Posted by Maiandra
If Larian could setup a survey through the launcher somehow then it would be available to every single player of EA, regardless of platform. Players wouldn't have to be active in any online community, and they could ensure that everyone (who wants to) only completes it only once. It would really need to be open for at least a couple of weeks to ensure everyone had enough time to participate, and they could announce it on Steam and other active communities to ensure enough people are aware.

I have said that for a while now. If they did a poll, it should be advertised in the game launcher. That is really the only way to accurately gauge the opinions of players rather than a forum poll, which represents only a very small percentage of overall players.
If this is possible, I think this forum would be the best place.

This is the official forum and obviously, the link of these threads could be shared on reddit, Larian's Discord, steam or any other forum/social media.
Everyone who's interrested to give his opinion could vote no matter where he comes from.

This is the only valuable place to gather people arround Larian and the game and you won't be able to give details in a constructive way elsewhere.

It was a long time ago and there were way more people overhyped at release but the poll realized by Sludge Khalid were very valuable.
A sample of 1000 is something used for a lot of official statistics and polls. It would be very cool to have other polls to see if players opinions have changed or not after hours of BG3... But I'm not sure you'll have 1000 answers now.
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
If this is possible, I think this forum would be the best place.

If nothing comes up in the meantime, I'll enable forum polls on a trial basis tomorrow morning. Mainly as it's now past 11pm here, probably not the best time of day for me to start changing stuff!
Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
If this is possible, I think this forum would be the best place.

If nothing comes up in the meantime, I'll enable forum polls on a trial basis tomorrow morning. Mainly as it's now past 11pm here, probably not the best time of day for me to start changing stuff!

Bonsoir Madame qui aime le fromage smile

I would be happy the beta test the new "poll" function, whenever you feel ready !

xx
- S
Originally Posted by Starlights
Bonsoir Madame qui aime le fromage smile

I would be happy the beta test the new "poll" function, whenever you feel ready !

Camembert! etc. Actually I prefer Roquefort, but y'know.

Ahem. Where was I? Oh yeah, polls should now be available to all forum members in both topics and their replies. Do let me know if there are any problems...
Testing out the new poll-as-a-reply feature...
Huh. Well, this thread already paid off in a big way, it seems. When I envisioned a poll system for this forum, I thought it'd work like most forums where there's just one central poll held throughout the entire thread. But putting them into posts allows for the possibility for someone to run multiple polls at once in the same thread. Which might make this place actually better for what I have in mind, at least in terms of neatly organizing the results.

But yeah, I mostly choose Reddit because it has the largest observable community by far, and while holding the poll on this forum would be nice, realistically most BG3 subreddit users won't have forum accounts, while most people are far more likely to have Reddit accounts by this point.

Of course, this also carries the risk of some troll siccing a bunch of bots on the Reddit poll too, but what can you even do at that point?
I am not sure Larian is truly listening to feedback. They seem to be too busy following their "roadmap".

Thankfully the mod community is growing.

With the evolution of motion capture technology, I can see fan made characters and story content easily trumping the over-budget voice actors in time.

How long is not even guessable. The key will be the affordability of motion capture equipment and software; but I can see the day when amateur actors Take a road trip to a fan made "basement" studio to film a Teams planned and rehearsed set of scenes.
I know this is probably not feasible, but I would have liked a poll where concrete ALTERNATIVES are offered. To be honest, I think most people are about as imaginative as your average rock and will likely be "fine" or "okay" with many aspects because they simply can't imagine anything better.

For instance:

ALT. FLANKING: Friendly/enemy AI automatically pivot towards a single flanking enemy even when it's not their turn to act. A second threat is needed to flank (and gain flanking bonus). Bonus: More realistic, balanced and immersive combat.

ALT. *RNG* IMPLEMENTATION: Implement a more complex combat feedback/animation system where misses due to dexterity, shields, and armor are shown as dodged, blocked, or deflected. This is addressing the psychological aspect to bad RNG/missing, where people likely would be more accepting of failure when it is shown as due to a skilled enemy as opposed to just the player's ineptitude/bad luck. Bonus: More varied and interesting combat.

ALT. WEAPON DIPPING: Implement any number of D&D 5e alternatives; cantrips like Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade, alchemical fire coating flask, poison (expendable resources).

ALT. SHOVE: As 5e (requiring attack action). Rely on actual 5e like Repelling Blast, Thunderous Wave, implement magical item like a wand (expendable resource) with aforementioned spells/knockback effect, add to Druid Wild Shape/Polymorph shapes.
I refuse to participate in a poll that doesn’t have bacon as a choice.

Joking aside, I’m curious where this will lead and if it will even make a difference. Larian seems to be so dead set on their vision of the game.
Are they going to be actual polls, or the quasi-usual:

Yes, this needs to be changed.

No, I'm part of the problem.

Because I see a lot of those, or in that vein, where the agenda is more obvious.
@Seraphael: Well, the main purpose is to establish if the community feels there should be a change to begin with. Getting tied up in what the changes are going to be muddles the conversation until a presumed need for a change is established first.

@robertthebard: I mean, if you choose to interpret the options that way, that’s pretty much on you. It’s purely designed for three kinds of answers: Change the mechanic completely, modify the mechanic, or preserve it completely.

If anything, this heavily favors the current design.
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
I refuse to participate in a poll that doesn’t have bacon as a choice.

Joking aside, I’m curious where this will lead and if it will even make a difference. Larian seems to be so dead set on their vision of the game.

Hi Spectralhunter, look here:
https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=770154#Post770154

I really wanted to add bacon as a choice but then I changed my mine, only for this one here - okay ? smile
Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by Starlights
Bonsoir Madame qui aime le fromage smile

I would be happy the beta test the new "poll" function, whenever you feel ready !

Camembert! etc. Actually I prefer Roquefort, but y'know.

Ahem. Where was I? Oh yeah, polls should now be available to all forum members in both topics and their replies. Do let me know if there are any problems...

Alors Bonsoir Madame, c'est encore moi smile

I was wondering if you could add the option, when creating a post, to allow people to add other options in the post ? An example where this could be useful is, say I want to create a poll about "which class would you like to see next", then I name 4 classes but forget 2 classes (sub-classes). Someone else might add the other 2 - "IF" the option is checked when creating the post.

What's your favorite cheese, I name 5 you add 5 more .. smile
Originally Posted by Starlights
Alors Bonsoir Madame, c'est encore moi smile

I was wondering if you could add the option, when creating a post, to allow people to add other options in the post ? An example where this could be useful is, say I want to create a poll about "which class would you like to see next", then I name 4 classes but forget 2 classes (sub-classes). Someone else might add the other 2 - "IF" the option is checked when creating the post.

What's your favorite cheese, I name 5 you add 5 more .. smile

I think I shall refrain from attempting to employ my rather questionable French language skills in reply! Apart from the very basic stuff I learnt at school, all I really know are some fairly rude words a thoughtful French chap passed on to me.

Cheese: I'm going to be boring and say cheddar. But the stuff actually from Cheddar; which isn't orange. I'm currently enjoying a rather nice smoked cheddar from... well, Glastonbury, but it's fairly near Cheddar. Of course there's much rivalry between English and French cheesiness which is why I mentioned Roquefort, possibly my 2nd favourite.

Er anyway. Polls! I noticed that there seems to be an absence of any means of changing polls once they've been submitted to the Poll Manager which is rather annoying, especially for people like me who usually don't notice a typo or that I've forgotten something until it's too late.

I've done some experimentation and it seems that it's possible to alter poll options after creation and even clear particular members' votes by meddling with the forum database directly, so there's a chance that's something we may consider doing on a discretionary basis; however, there is no guarantee it won't mess up the poll completely, and it would be offered on a strictly limited and ad hoc basis because I'm the only person who's foolhardy enough to attempt it. TL;DR: maybe.
Hi @Vometia,
okay, let's keep it to english, I can go english, French, Spanish and German - pick your cheese grin

I started a poll, see below, to your point I can't seem to be able to edit and add another option (none, someone doesn't like any actual classes, as an example for this poll).
https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=770154#Post770154

Deleting the poll to add the option will be a no no, since we will loose all results and force to start over.

Anyway, let me know if you need more testing, I have other ideas for polls smile

Cheers !
P.S.: oh, you're from Oxford, that's the best university in the world ! I wish I could go ... (and we should all trust the AstraZeneca)
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