Larian Studios
Posted By: Sharet Camp Dialogues - 17/07/21 11:14 AM
So, I'm sure the topic has already emerged somewhere else but I would like to exhume it.

In my last playthrough, I did 2 long rests (without any power build or cheesing the game btw, so you know that is a true possibility in a normal run).

This means I didn't have the chance to experience a lot of the companion's dialogues, because they trigger each time you go visit your camp.

The main problem, in my opinion, is that for each long rest every companion can't trigger more than one plot-related dialogue (the yellow exclamation point on their head). At the same time, the main plot urges you not to take long rests because you know, the tadpole.

How do you think this thing can be resolved? I have a couple of ideas:

1) Make it possible to trigger more plot-related dialogues on each rest (for each companion). The problem with this solution is that the first dialogue could end with an irritate companion and the next one with a perfectly amicable one, depending on the trigger conditions, without the passing of in-game time to justify the change in mood.

2) Trigger the conversation right after the condition for the dialogue has been met. This solution can slow the pace of the game but at least it will be coherent.

3) Make camping mandatory in some circumstances. Like in Dragon Age: Origins or in Greedfall, where camping was a mandatory step in each area transition. This, of course, means more area transitions.

What do you guys think? Any more suggestions?
Posted By: Sozz Re: Camp Dialogues - 17/07/21 02:54 PM
They could have an exhaustion system that triggers after you've been adventuring for x amount of time, they could have companions initiate dialogue, outside of camp even (tricky sometimes).

As for the ticking clock of the tadpoles, the best idea I could think of was making every long rest equivalent to a [illithid] dialogue use, so everytime you rest the stronger it grows, you'd even start having the dreams with every long rest.
Posted By: EvilVik Re: Camp Dialogues - 17/07/21 03:52 PM
This is one of my major nuisances as well. Don't think I've ever managed to get all dialogue
Posted By: mrfuji3 Re: Camp Dialogues - 17/07/21 04:13 PM
Originally Posted by Sharet
1) Make it possible to trigger more plot-related dialogues on each rest (for each companion). The problem with this solution is that the first dialogue could end with an irritate companion and the next one with a perfectly amicable one, depending on the trigger conditions, without the passing of in-game time to justify the change in mood.
1.) I'm assuming be "for each companions" you mean "maximum one dialogue per companion per rest"? This eliminates the possibility that the same companion has 2+ dialogues in a row, one where they're irate and then another where they're happy.

Originally Posted by Sharet
2) Trigger the conversation right after the condition for the dialogue has been met. This solution can slow the pace of the game but at least it will be coherent.
I don't think companion conversations should happen automatically. The player should be required to do something to initiate it; e.g., clicking on the companion or even short resting.

3.) Some camp dialogues - any that don't require sleeping - could occur during short rests or out in the overworld. This could coincide with actual short rest mechanisms, where you choose how many hit dice to spend, and making short rests feel more impactful than a single click of a button. If Larian really needs the background to be the main campsite (because that's where they rendered all the camp cutscenes), I'd be okay with the game bringing you to a camp-like area (basically the usual camp area, but without any tents/npcs/etc) for the short rest. This would multiply the amount of opportunities for companion dialogues by 3: 2 short rests + 1 long rest per day.

Originally Posted by Sozz
As for the ticking clock of the tadpoles, the best idea I could think of was making every long rest equivalent to a [illithid] dialogue use, so everytime you rest the stronger it grows, you'd even start having the dreams with every long rest.
I like this. Currently, the game doesn't have enough tension. There is a tadpole in our heads; we should feel some urgency! Even if we aren't immediately transforming, there still is a chance that at some point they will be 'activated' and instantly turn us. Although the frequency should maybe be reduced: every 2-3 rests should be equivalent to an [illithid] dialogue use, not every single rest.
If this is implemented, there would need to be a dedicated cutscene where it is spelled out that resting will slowly make us more in-tune with the tadpole.
Posted By: Icelyn Re: Camp Dialogues - 17/07/21 05:29 PM
Originally Posted by Sozz
As for the ticking clock of the tadpoles, the best idea I could think of was making every long rest equivalent to a [illithid] dialogue use, so everytime you rest the stronger it grows, you'd even start having the dreams with every long rest.
Disagree with this! Using the powers or not is a character development choice that should stay a dialogue choice, as it is now. They also added more dialogue in patch 4 to make it more clear that Tav is not in immediate danger.
Posted By: Sozz Re: Camp Dialogues - 17/07/21 06:02 PM
They could make it a development choice that your dithering forces you into. As for making clear that the party isn't in immediate danger, that's kind of my problem with Act 1, we should feel in danger, to be relieved towards the end that we, for reasons we don't understand, have been given a reprieve. Our party should be a little scared of getting embroiled in the grove-goblin conflict, and even good characters should have every reason to want to skip it in favor finding a swift resolution to the impending Ceremorphosis.

Another way of having a ticking clock would be for companions to Leave the Party if Tav decides to tarry too long doing nonsense. It might be an interesting way of creating a party of people with similar alignments, good companions are inclined to get involved, the more self interested ones leaving to find their own way.

To make sure that people don't crash through the tadpole stuff make it so it can only grow stronger x-number of times every adventuring session, so if you rest a lot, then using the tadpole won't increase it, but if you don't rest often then using the tadpole will, up to a point.
Posted By: Sozz Re: Camp Dialogues - 17/07/21 06:17 PM
How about this, every time the flags for a cutscene are met, the party gets exhaustion.

You can keep playing, but now you have better incentive to take a long rest and not have what everybody is dealing with, skipped scenes and requirement backlogs that are messing up with the pacing of every companions story.

I think this is only really a problem in Act 1, because we're dealing with a lot of exposition for every character, but if this sounds too much like railroads for the D&D people, I get it.
Posted By: Gray Ghost Re: Camp Dialogues - 17/07/21 08:56 PM
Yeah, camp dialogues are really an issue. In all my 5-6 playthroughs (none of which got to the end of the available content to be fair) I've never actually had Gale talk to me about his needing to eat magical artefacts. It has literally never been an issue for me and I would never know about it if it weren't for people talking about it on the forums. And it honestly bums me out to think how much I'm missing from other companions. Like, I would love to romance Lae'zel but I have no idea if I'm missing out on entire scenes necessary to do that.
Posted By: mr_planescapist Re: Camp Dialogues - 17/07/21 09:20 PM
Un-tie many dialogues to having to camp. Many of the shorter/simpler dialogues can be done while your adventuring in the wild/wherever and just put on a timer. Turn these basically into just inner party banters. Maybe these can have a certain trigger...(entering an area/time of day/eating something/after a battle/using a certain item etc...) Hey surprise, kind of like how BG2 did it. This also feels more immersive.
The rest of the more <meaty> dialogue stuff will fall into place as is when you camp.
Posted By: CJMPinger Re: Camp Dialogues - 17/07/21 11:01 PM
Personally, they could be tied to camp but like just being in camp, instead of always being a nighttime resting thing. And make it that they are not always one at a time, only when it makes sense or that other companions will be properly reacting.
Posted By: avahZ Darkwood Re: Camp Dialogues - 18/07/21 01:18 AM
I would suggest having them initiate on a short rest as well. Instead of a quick cheese heal, quickly cut to black and randomly or by design have a scene. Many times it just cuts back to normal. I currently just use it as a free high level healing spell…
Posted By: GM4Him Re: Camp Dialogues - 18/07/21 01:26 AM
Yes. Short rest too. Even just a symbol on the UI indicating dialogue available. So, you short rest and boom. Symbol appears, so that you know during this 1 hour short rest Shadow wants to chat. Gives more meaning to short rests too. While relaxing an hour, you and Shadow have a chat. If she's not in party, you go to camp to chat. Or better yet, you click symbol and it auto initiates the dialogue. No travel necessary. Dialogue available, click icon, dialogue initiated. Done.

They could even still have it at camp, but during the day instead of night, or whatever they need to do that makes sense.
Posted By: andreasrylander Re: Camp Dialogues - 18/07/21 01:41 AM
Why only have those scenes at the camp? It could be just as you play on the maps.
Posted By: GM4Him Re: Camp Dialogues - 18/07/21 01:50 AM
True, but some flow better when resting. For example, Gale is about to tell you about his condition. He starts by asking how dinner was.

His mirror image scene also makes more sense when resting. He's playing around with magic while taking a rest, not travelling on the road.
Posted By: Boblawblah Re: Camp Dialogues - 18/07/21 02:02 AM
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Even just a symbol on the UI indicating dialogue available.

That is a great suggestion. Another possibility is to have companions say something like "we should talk when you have a minute" or something similar to that like other rpgs do.
Posted By: GM4Him Re: Camp Dialogues - 18/07/21 02:16 AM
Or both. I like the icon idea because mamy times I miss what the companions are saying while tooling around the map.
Posted By: fylimar Re: Camp Dialogues - 18/07/21 08:14 AM
I would love to be able to have all the companion interactions in one game. Gales Dreamweaver scene I only had once and the scene, where Lae'zel attacks you, when you show symptoms didn't show up for a while now.
I agree, that it would be great to have more than one scene showing up during long rest.
Posted By: Dez Re: Camp Dialogues - 18/07/21 09:42 AM
All my +1 yes to this. I been complaining about this forever :[

There must be some way to solve the issue at hand...


AND - Larian, please :[ A chat icon when our companions want to talk so that we who spam rest (to not miss out on conversations) don't have to rest every 10th second "just in case". >.<
Posted By: VincentNZ Re: Camp Dialogues - 18/07/21 02:24 PM
Dialogue in the main world only. Have one location that acts as your hub, like the stronghold of PoE or BG2. Resting is just a cutscene like in BG2. No need to overcomplicate that mechanic. It is not like resting is some form of game-changing immersive experience.
Posted By: Sozz Re: Camp Dialogues - 18/07/21 02:48 PM
This isn't Game of Thrones, we can't just flit from the Wall back to King's Landing, whenever we want a 'talking scene'
Posted By: Sharet Re: Camp Dialogues - 20/07/21 06:58 AM
Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by Sharet
1) Make it possible to trigger more plot-related dialogues on each rest (for each companion). The problem with this solution is that the first dialogue could end with an irritate companion and the next one with a perfectly amicable one, depending on the trigger conditions, without the passing of in-game time to justify the change in mood.
1.) I'm assuming be "for each companions" you mean "maximum one dialogue per companion per rest"? This eliminates the possibility that the same companion has 2+ dialogues in a row, one where they're irate and then another where they're happy.
Exactly, it would be an inconsistency.

Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by Sharet
2) Trigger the conversation right after the condition for the dialogue has been met. This solution can slow the pace of the game but at least it will be coherent.
I don't think companion conversations should happen automatically. The player should be required to do something to initiate it; e.g., clicking on the companion or even short resting.
Maybe not automatically, but at least the exclamation points on their head. Some dialogues are more coherent if some time has passed from the trigger, I know, but between having the conversation immediately and never having it because of the current camp system, I personally prefer the first option smile

Originally Posted by Sozz
They could make it a development choice that your dithering forces you into. As for making clear that the party isn't in immediate danger, that's kind of my problem with Act 1, we should feel in danger, to be relieved towards the end that we, for reasons we don't understand, have been given a reprieve. Our party should be a little scared of getting embroiled in the grove-goblin conflict, and even good characters should have every reason to want to skip it in favor finding a swift resolution to the impending Ceremorphosis.
This. Besides, even if the mighty druid tells me I'm not in danger I don't want to test my luck (from a RP perspective). This is why I tool just two long rests to begin with.

Originally Posted by Sozz
Another way of having a ticking clock would be for companions to Leave the Party if Tav decides to tarry too long doing nonsense. It might be an interesting way of creating a party of people with similar alignments, good companions are inclined to get involved, the more self interested ones leaving to find their own way.
More or less like BG1&2 reputation system? In which if you are too of a do-goodie, evil characters will leave the party? It is a possibility, but a bit antithetical with the game. Especially at the start, no one in the party likes each other company, but they stay together because they need to.

Originally Posted by Gray Ghost
Yeah, camp dialogues are really an issue. In all my 5-6 playthroughs (none of which got to the end of the available content to be fair) I've never actually had Gale talk to me about his needing to eat magical artefacts. It has literally never been an issue for me and I would never know about it if it weren't for people talking about it on the forums. And it honestly bums me out to think how much I'm missing from other companions. Like, I would love to romance Lae'zel but I have no idea if I'm missing out on entire scenes necessary to do that.

Same, and it's not like it is a minor thing.

Originally Posted by avahZ Darkwood
I would suggest having them initiate on a short rest as well. Instead of a quick cheese heal, quickly cut to black and randomly or by design have a scene. Many times it just cuts back to normal. I currently just use it as a free high level healing spell…

This is actually a good suggestion. Short rests should be an hour of in-game time, typically used for RP purposes. Loading times are not really an issue in this game, I would love to make a small camp and listen to my companions' dialogues, much like in other games of this kind.

Originally Posted by Boblawblah
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Even just a symbol on the UI indicating dialogue available.

That is a great suggestion. Another possibility is to have companions say something like "we should talk when you have a minute" or something similar to that like other rpgs do.

This.
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