Larian Studios
Posted By: mk1 Strange body size - 08/05/22 04:55 PM
I wonder why the female Woodelf is drawn that small and fragile like an hyperelastic teenager (besides with lumbal hyperlordosis) -
the body size does not match the other party members (well in this case men);
is it maybe because women still have to be that fragile in the BG3 universe like it was an appreciated ideal in the last centuries?

Not only compared to Halsin she looks ridiculously small, like a child;

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

IMHO it just does not fit good role play in BG3.
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Strange body size - 08/05/22 07:08 PM
Everybody looks ridiculously small besides Halsin ...
It have soemthing to do with the fact that Halsin is ridiculously big. laugh
Posted By: mk1 Re: Strange body size - 08/05/22 08:40 PM
You are right. grin

Nevertheless it is unlikely she could draw a longbow with these not existing back muscles.
And she is small and looks as if she had not much to eat while growing up, or is she still a child?

She might be able to hold a pencil and draw portraits, but she certainly can't draw a longbow.
She's not an elf.
Posted By: Wormerine Re: Strange body size - 09/05/22 02:21 PM
Originally Posted by mk1
Nevertheless it is unlikely she could draw a longbow with these not existing back muscles.
And she is small and looks as if she had not much to eat while growing up, or is she still a child?
While, in general I think that character in BG3 look very impressive, there is something off with how characters look. Personally, I think this is less about body type (actually all of the characters seem to be in unrealistically peak physical shape) but how armor fits. It looks like they are wearing body-tight costumes, rather than actual clothing/armor. Even light armor should be more padded then it is now. They look like medieval instagramers rather then adventurers. That comes back to me not liking overall visual direction and priorities of BG3.

Helsin is ridiculously large.
Posted By: PrivateRaccoon Re: Strange body size - 09/05/22 05:59 PM
Originally Posted by Wormerine
[quote=mk1]
Helsin is ridiculously large.

Hush now. You don't want to upset Icelyn.
Posted By: Icelyn Re: Strange body size - 09/05/22 10:18 PM
Originally Posted by PrivateRaccoon
Originally Posted by Wormerine
[quote=mk1]
Helsin is ridiculously large.

Hush now. You don't want to upset Icelyn.
laugh 🐻
Posted By: Sharet Re: Strange body size - 10/05/22 07:04 AM
I agree with you all but in this (at least for elves) Larian was faithful to the source.

[Linked Image from us.v-cdn.net]

Let's give them credits when they are due.
Posted By: Seraphael Re: Strange body size - 10/05/22 12:55 PM
Originally Posted by Sharet
I agree with you all but in this (at least for elves) Larian was faithful to the source.

[Linked Image from us.v-cdn.net]

Let's give them credits when they are due.

Nope, they're NOT.

The source is Forgotten Realms, not basic D&D. It's a specific setting where elves are supposedly as tall as the average human (with variations).

[Linked Image from 3dnews.ru]
Posted By: Niara Re: Strange body size - 10/05/22 01:10 PM
Actually, as of 5e (Worth nothing that both of those images are from 3e, and are not officially current), elves have some variance between their different subtypes (drow are the smallest, and wood elves are generally the tallest), however, they are characterised as falling into an average range between 4'7" at shortest and 5'10" at tallest; this is still shorter than human averages (which *start* at 5'10" and go up), but not by a greatly substantial deal.
Posted By: Seraphael Re: Strange body size - 10/05/22 01:45 PM
Sounds weird that entire campaign settings would be edition dependant, especially when it comes to lore and such. I would assume going by the Player's Guide to Faerûn source book is still pertinent unless you have a different newer source that states differently? Humans in PGtF average about an inch taller than elves other than the shorter drow.

That said, I can understand why Larian opted with the basic D&D version as it's less complex (FG elves are moon, sun, wild, wood and drow). Then again Larian makes it needlessly more complex with their foolish distinction of elves and drows as separate races, and lolth-sworn and seldarine as subraces. Now that's roleplaying with crutches for ya!
Posted By: Piff Re: Strange body size - 10/05/22 02:07 PM
We... Are playing 5th edition DnD. Not 3rd. The base player's handbook for 5e uses racial information that is accurate to the Forgotten Realms. There is no other handbook specifically for the Realms that has conflicting information for this edition, because it is the same information. The PHB even takes the effort to mention that the racial information is accurate for Elves in different settings, and unless we later get an updated Forgotten Realms Campaign setting that has new information, this is what we use for 5e settings.
Posted By: Niara Re: Strange body size - 10/05/22 02:08 PM
I do - the 5e PHB and DMG ^.^

A lot has happened since 3rd edition; realms have changed, and the way they wish to present the lore and details of various things has shifted and evolved. Older edition sources are considered deprecated until a contemporary current edition source book is released, and for 5e a Toril, or Forgotten Realms, source book will not BE released, Ever, because that is what the PHB and DMG Are, at least as far as races and creatures are concerned - for civilisation and culture lore, smaller, supplementary books are released to support the PHB and DMG, for Toril - such as SCAG - while whole campaign setting books are released for other realms (such as Erberron, and soon, Dragonlance).

As much as the core books for each edition are formally written in a setting agnostic way, Toril is the base plate for all other campaign settings. Other campaign settings discuss their features with focus being given most prominently to how and where they differ from the same things in a FR setting. Where no such variance is mentioned, it is presumed to match the Toril base. Like it or not, PGtF is a 3.5 source book, and so it is considered deprecated - the 5e PHB takes priority in cases of information overlap. The average heights of different races is one of those places where the lore descriptions have legitimately shifted over the intervening years.
Posted By: Piff Re: Strange body size - 10/05/22 02:26 PM
Halsin is still extremely large though, regardless of differing edition Elf heights.

More evidence pointing to him actually being an awakened bear Druid using polymorph to turn into an Elf, and not an Elf using Wildshape to turn into a bear.
Posted By: williams85 Re: Strange body size - 10/05/22 07:42 PM
i'd say she looks pretty much as big as i imagined a female elf would be. Halsin just looks ridiculous though, He would be much better suited as a Half-orc Barbarian.
Posted By: Wormerine Re: Strange body size - 10/05/22 09:07 PM
Originally Posted by williams85
Halsin just looks ridiculous though, He would be much better suited as a Half-orc Barbarian.
grin You know what would be funny? If Hasin was an elf only because his real races wasn't implememntd. Then 1.0 drops and Hasin turns out to be a half-orc.
Posted By: Icelyn Re: Strange body size - 10/05/22 11:25 PM
Originally Posted by Wormerine
grin You know what would be funny? If Hasin was an elf only because his real races wasn't implememntd. Then 1.0 drops and Hasin turns out to be a half-orc.
Perhaps you missed the post below, Wormerine!!!!😜

Originally Posted by PrivateRaccoon
Hush now. You don't want to upset Icelyn.
Posted By: Wormerine Re: Strange body size - 11/05/22 01:32 PM
Originally Posted by Icelyn
Originally Posted by Wormerine
grin You know what would be funny? If Hasin was an elf only because his real races wasn't implememntd. Then 1.0 drops and Hasin turns out to be a half-orc.
Perhaps you missed the post below, Wormerine!!!!😜

Originally Posted by PrivateRaccoon
Hush now. You don't want to upset Icelyn.
Posted By: Sharet Re: Strange body size - 11/05/22 01:53 PM
Originally Posted by Niara
Actually, as of 5e (Worth nothing that both of those images are from 3e, and are not officially current), elves have some variance between their different subtypes (drow are the smallest, and wood elves are generally the tallest), however, they are characterised as falling into an average range between 4'7" at shortest and 5'10" at tallest; this is still shorter than human averages (which *start* at 5'10" and go up), but not by a greatly substantial deal.

I must admit, I was mistaken.
I'm pretty sure the image I posted was also valid for the FR setting (since in the 3rd edition was the vanilla or "default" setting of D&D) but the reference for the 5th edition actually respond to your description.
Posted By: mk1 Re: Strange body size - 14/05/22 01:27 PM
Originally Posted by Niara
Actually, as of 5e (Worth nothing that both of those images are from 3e, and are not officially current), elves have some variance between their different subtypes (drow are the smallest, and wood elves are generally the tallest), however, they are characterised as falling into an average range between 4'7" at shortest and 5'10" at tallest; this is still shorter than human averages (which *start* at 5'10" and go up), but not by a greatly substantial deal.

You see, it's not just about feet and inches of height.

Rather, it is about the issues raised by Wormerine,
(while better than the armor in DOSEE, which was really weird, all the women were in high heels and all dressed like carnival when going into battle or exploring caves)

- it is the unrealistic body shape that makes immersion impossible; some things just don't work:

It is easier to believe in magic and flying dragons than that such fragile creatures can draw longbows

e.g. buying new armor:


[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

We were told elves can draw longbows -
however, there is nothing here to indicate that this feeble creature ever wielded a longbow in her life
Posted By: Van'tal Re: Strange body size - 14/05/22 01:38 PM
Sigh...sliders and be done with it.
Posted By: Niara Re: Strange body size - 15/05/22 02:22 AM
There's nothing to indicate that she can't, mk1, other than your own perspective;

Even within the human species, different people have differing muscle density and different upper capacity for how much stress they can consciously put their muscles under. Slender people can be functionally much stronger than people who look beefier, and it happens all the time.

For example... I'm 138cm tall, very petite... but I'm also fit and active, and stronger than I look; I can draw a 70cm draw-length long bow just fine, even with increased draw weight (albiet with a non-standard draw stance; the issue is the length of my arms, not the strength or ability to draw it), and I'm definitely slighter than that elf character.... who, is, by the way, an elf (or was identified as a wood elf in the original post); they are not humans and in their traditional lore are always stronger than their slender and lithe look suggests.

That said...

I'll be the first to wave a banner about places where their character models leave, shall we say, a LOT to be desired...

Such as for Halflings
Posted By: mk1 Re: Strange body size (and shape) - 15/05/22 12:34 PM
Hi Niara, I do not doubt that you can draw your longbow.
And being not tall myself I am aware of the fact that smaller poeple are often underestimated.

For the question to have the right anatomic shape for a matter it is not important, if the NPC model should be an elf or human.
It is just a fact that if this model of an NPC was a person in real life, she would have existing back muscels if she was drawing her long bow for training.
I can see, if someone is an archer IRL.
On this model are not any signs for it.
It is - just fancy fantasy.

What I meant is drawing a longbow pretty often and training with it would be essential - as IRL - to use it efficently.
She is no archer. Therefore she cannot be an elf.
smile
Posted By: mrfuji3 Re: Strange body size (and shape) - 15/05/22 03:47 PM
To be fair, elves are magic. Any physical strength they have can be explained as party due to magic, rather than due to muscles.

That said, we should have the option of making muscle-y elf ladies, and I don't necessarily disagree that the "standard" female elf should be more muscular/taller.
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