For those of you that have sided with, and romanced, Minthara instead of killing her you know what I'm talking about. For those of you that don't know I will elaborate. There is the option to side with Minthara insteead of just killing her. She has you go back to the grove and signal for her and her invading force and then you open the gate and let them in and help them take over the grove. You then get to romance her that night at the party. There is quite the surprise in store for you when you watch the night sex scene with her. It's literally borderline pron. They don't actually show any genetalia but they show her going down on you and then they switch to you lieing on a table and she climbs on top of you and you 69 each other. Yes the game says it has nudity. Yes the game says sexual content. I was NOT excpectting some teenagers wet dream borderline cartoon porn in my GAME. This is really quite rediculous. Thank you for basically ruining the Baldur's Gate franchise with unnescesary smut. Don't get me wrong, I like porn. NOT cartoon porn. Seriously? If you're one of those people that gets off on cartoon porn I truely am sorry for you. I'm NOT trying to call you a bad person or anything but it really is pretty messed up. But like a lot of things it's not something someone can actually choose to like or not like. You either do or you don't. I certainly don't. I certainly don't need it in my GAME. Yes some games are actually designed around sexual content. But this is D&D and it's Baldur's Gate. NOT Debby does Baldur!
I know some of you are thinking "You don't have to play this game" or "You don't have to watch it" but the thing is this is part of my 2nd favorite game franchise so of course I want to play it. No I don't want to watch the porn part of it but I DID watch it just to see exactly how far they were going to go with it. Pretty far! It's not only mentally disturbing but we actually are forced to PAY for this garbage if we want to play the game! Can I have a cheaper NON-PORN version please? Seriously! Why do we even need to put this crap in a GAME to begin with? Ok so we can romance others in the group. Fine! Doesn't require someone wasting time and money programing in actual cartoon porn that we are forced to pay for whether we want it or not. There's enough problems with this game and now i also have to PAY for cartoon porn too? Wow! Love you guys. LOTS of sarcasm there for those not keen enough to pick up on that.

This is a game for adults with adult themes which include slavery, body horror, murder, cruelty, the killing of children and you are upset about some "mild" sex with a horny/manipulative Drow that you have to take a specific evil path to even get to? Ok, that seems totally reasonable.

Minthara and the Drow in general use sex like a weapon, to control and get info and manipulate people, which is exactly what she does. It is an accurate portrayal of their culture.

This is a game for adults with adults theme...? Bold statement there.
And you sir are...how old may I ask?
Nonetheless, in my book from all the visuals, dialogues and acting this is a game clearly for teenagers/young adults. Its trying to be serious and edgy yet turns out to be silly and weird....Which is great! The hallmark of a fun Larian game.

The closest I can come up to an example is a ...bloody gory full a sex Disney fun and silly animated game. So even with these serious <adult> themes...I totally get why people think its messed up. Because at some levels it is. The game lacks cohesion within the Faerun universe.

You can avoid explicit scenes, just don't pick the very specific paths which scream "mature content". I have never triggered one of those by error and I don't see how you could.

I just cant believe people think these as <mature> content. I agree with the poster on that.
I would say its more.....silly, weird, strange, immature...
Like a 18 year old designed these scenes while his/her parents watch over and counsoled on what to do next.
Its disturbing and weird and not done with taste.
Like a B porno flick versus a very well directed love/romance/sex scene like in In The Mood for Love.
That is why its best generally not to include these type of scenes, It is very hard to get right.

More to the point you can simply skip the scene with the click of a button

Yeah, evil path was awkward. One would hope that Farrrenheit would teach people how bad of an idea explicit sex scenes are with dolls who can't even convincingly animate simplest of conversations.

Tonally I am just disappointed. Yes, Dragon Ages and Witcher aimed for a more dirty, *cough* realistic *cough* fiction, but Baldur's Gates havent been that. What we have is someone taking markatble bits of those games (explicit language, violence, sex) and putting them among wacky, slapstic driven comedy skits. The end result is just bizzare.

This dude took an optional path in a videogame that screamed "sex scene" because he "doesn't want" cartoon porn in his BG game. Yeah, sure, cool story bro...

Are you having fun with your little boomer judgemental fest? Because you don't clearly sound that much of an adult yourself with those funny little "comparisons" needed to prove a point that doesn't need to be proven to anyone. Meh.

Does it? From what I can remember it comes out of nothing - you slaughter grove and then she wants to shag. It is as much about an execution as it is about content. Bg3 narrative and character carry so little weight that yeah, sex scene feels like a cynical, disjointed addition.

The dialogue after the grove raid:

"Through her eyes you see yourself, skin glistening with sweat, hands bound - extasy... or terror? May be both? You feel her breath on your neck, her finger running down your spine"

Yeah... sure she was talking about a wrestling match.
BTW the whole evil path is rather cynical, so I don't find that addition disjointed at all. But to each their own.

This really isn't a new development, Larian has been advertising the fact that they are going to have fully animated sex scenes for a long time (and they are somehow even more awkward than I thought they would be), the Minthara scene is just the first one they put in that wasn't covered by a big "under development" splash screen.

It's also unfortunately on-brand for Larian, as in DOS2, you could have sudden meaningless sex with someone at least twice, in addition to the late-game sex scene with the companion that you had built a relationship with. These were mostly text based, with characters in posed tableaux sequences, rather than fully animated scenes.

I wish they would put in a "no intimate scenes" option for those who want it.

Which makes me curious what was Larian's intention as romances in D:OS2 was something I thought was Larian taking a piss. I chuckled through them, and I thought they were meant to be a parody of modern RPG romance. Now I am not so sure.

and here was me thinking i had gripes with the game hehe

To mister OP. There are different characters in the game, each of them covers different iteration of intimate relationship. If you are not role-playing, (which I think you are clearly incapable of due to your misunderstanding of NPC's narrative self-awareness concept) then you are expected to choose something that correlates well with your IRL preferences. If you want a romance with wine and flowers and you willingly chose Minthara - it is an equivalent of saying that you dislike fantasy movies while willingly watching Lord of the Rings and blaming it for forcing you to watch it. Thats why I think your post should be ignored - it is nothing other than hate speech and an attention-grabber.

Edit: I am talking about this particular post only by the way. Some of your other posts are pretty constructive criticism. But this one falls into the category of, as you said in the other thread:


Again, it is your and only your choice to pick that route. There are alternatives for people like you. Nobody poops in MY plate with that scene. Actually, the WHOLE game is about the alternatives. What is the reason for your post? What are you trying to achieve? Humour me. Would be very interesting to have a plain answer.

No it's definitely not that.

Will you elaborate or just leave it at that? Because it is nothing different then. Was my comparison incorrect?

No, he's just being belittling to people who might like cartoon porn. Honestly though, as someone who actually looks at 3d rendered porn, I find BG3's intimate scenes to be more far more awkward than arousing.

So the problem is that the porn is not good enough? lol

Just pointing out that words mean things. I don’t think criticising a game, no matter if warranted or not, counts as hate speech.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/hate-speech

Hm, fair point. There are different sorts of criticism though, I went with hate speech for the lack of a better word.

Wow, I see this topic does not let people go. I suppose Larian will include the black screen option 100% at this point, so don't worry my arrogant and full of self-importance friend - you will not need to see it. As for ''we actually are forced to PAY for this garbage'' - yes, sometimes there are things we do not fully love and we make compromises with other people with other tastes. I am sure this will be a good lesson for you.

To be honest, that’s my biggest problem with it

Though I do have other concerns, those are already outlined in the other thread where we’ve recently been discussing this sort of topic in (mostly) a more nuanced manner than the OP’s no doubt heartfelt rant on the topic.

https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=837899#Post837899

My point is that this is D&D and it is Baldur's Gate. Not Debby Does Baldur. At least it shouldn't be. I'm honestly surprised that nobody over at Hasbro has had any problem with this insult to the great games. That's what they are , GAMES, not porn. Like I said some games are centered around sex but D&D and Baldur's Gate definitely is not. It's an insult. Also as I stated I watch the whole thing because I wanted to see just how far they were going to go with it. And I'm NOT trying to hate on those of you that actually for some reason enjoy cartoon porn. That's YOUR problem and it shouldn''t be made mine. Yet here we are. FIVE years in the making, TWO of them Early Access, tons of bugs still AND borderline porn? I'm seriously losing interest in this game and I hate that idea. It's D&D. It's Baldur's Gate. It's SUPPOSED to be a fun GAME. But it's really not and I honestly don't have high hopes that it actually ever will be from the looks of things. It's been turned into a very bad joke.

Really? Again? A bit less hyperbole, more nuance and a recognition that your preference is just one amongst many would make for more constructive debate. And if you’re not interested in constructive debate then it’s not really fair of you to come here and just shout your opinions at us all.

As I’ve said elsewhere, I’m not a fan of extended explicit sex scenes for a couple of reasons, but they’re still a tiny, tiny part of the game as a whole and I’m sure will be skippable. Even if the Minthara scene went on twice as long (and my preference would be that it were far shorter) I don’t think it could reasonably be said to constitute centering the game around sex. And whether or not it’s actually shown on screen, making sex potentially part of our characters’ story seems perfectly valid. Loads of fantasy adventures in films, TV and books have plot elements that include romance and/or sex and for me it would be a huge gap if BG3 didn’t accommodate this.

"Really? Again? A bit less hyperbole, more nuance and a recognition that your preference is just one amongst many would make for more constructive debate. And if you’re not interested in constructive debate then it’s not really fair of you to come here and just shout your opinions at us all."

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say/point out? "Really? Again?" What "Again"? and what "if you're not interested in constructive debate"? I'm lost within your words. How am I not interested in constructive debate? If you wish to debate then do so. I have no problem with that. Not sure why you think I do. lol

Then why didn't you adress the constructive part of Red Queen's argument? Do I have to point out exactly what the argument was? Or can you manage to extract it? May be your "don't know what you are talking about" manner could work on a 10 year old, but man don't be funny

It was straight up poor decision that limited their audience and scared away conscientious parents.

Their are actually families that roll play adventures together.


An off button with a parental password would fix this...slightly

A familly playing BG3 together will have to witness a realistic brain being extracted from someone head in the first minute of gameplay, and it is barely hidden.

This game is rated "M" by ESBR
I think parents must understand what it means, right? Or do some research to find out? Hold some responsibility for their conscious decisions? oh well it is easier to find a scapegoat in some corporate image

People fuck ... get used to that, they arent going to stop.

"Then why didn't you adress the constructive part of Red Queen's argument? Do I have to point out exactly what the argument was? Or can you manage to extract it? May be your "don't know what you are talking about" manner could work on a 10 year old, but man don't be funny
"
Apparently you do have to point it out. I dn't see it other than her complaining about me voicing MY opinion in the FEEDBACK section. That's what it is MY opinion. I'm not saying it's yours or anyone else's. It's MINE. This is the FEEDBACK section. I have given MY feedback on this topic. whether YOU or ANYONE else agrees with it or not it's still MY opinion. Please do explain. I am a bit conffused why I can't voice MY opinion in the FEEDBACK section? What exactly is YOUR definition of FEEDBACK? Apparently it's different than mine.

Yep...that's what parents should tell their younger children who like to play games.

I agree, that you don't have to elaborate on your own opinion. I did get, that is was your personal thought in the matter.

It seems, that people get riled up a lot about this topic, given, that there are now three threads covering it. And all because nudity was datamined....

...and their is also the adult crowd that just doesn't find it the least bit exciting (real life is better) and that would rather have characters that are immersive enough to actually care about.

addendum...an off switch would make me fell more comfortable to explore dialog options without the risk of things getting weird.

Children should not play this game. It is rated M not only because of the sexual content but also because of gore and strong language. They can agree or disagree with this restriction. And every game should not be done for everyone.

Thats also an opinion ...

Mine would be: You are too young for this one. It clearly states 18+

It's not the nudity that's the problem. It's the sexual acts. And I did not see the other topics regarding this or I would have simply added my 2 cents in with those instead of starting my own. My appologies for not reading the entire section of posts. That's on ME.

The “again” referred to you doing in this thread what I’d just seen and commented on you doing in another thread, which is generally panning Larian and the game. I get you’re disappointed, but you really don’t need to keep saying it over and over in different threads.

I’m glad you’re happy to have constructive debate, however. You’ll see that what I said was conditional. If you weren’t bothered about having such debate, but just wanted to vent, your tone and approach would have been appropriate though not pleasant for fellow forum members. Given, however, that you are interested in such debate then the first part of what I recommended applies. I don’t think I’m the only person here who finds the rhetorical style of your posts in this thread not conducive to constructive engagement.

And as neprostoman pointed out I did actually make some specific points about your argument that you could have responded to in a way that proved you were willing to discuss in good faith. Though as I’d just dissed your debating style, I certainly don’t blame you for focusing on that instead!


Well, I’m sure there is a demand for a family-friendly D&D game, but Larian have always been very clear that they wanted to make a mature game. While I don’t think “containing explicit sex” is either necessary or sufficient for a “mature” game, speaking for myself do want the latter and while I’d probably play BG3 even if it were kid-friendly I’m glad Larian are intending something that addresses themes and includes graphics (eg mindflayer transformations) that are not suitable for children. Whether the net impact on sales of this decision is positive or negative, I couldn’t say. But by making the game 18+, Larian have given themselves at least the opportunity to make what I personally would consider a more interesting, dark fantasy than would otherwise be possible.

Surely, I'll do that.

1. You said that the game is CENTRED around porn and nudity. The Red Queen obviously pointed out that it isn't, because it is just one scene. Even if there were 10 scenes like that, your exaggerated, clearly emotional statement won't be true. You have as much right to state your opinion as much everyone else has to point out the holes in your opinion and make it look stupid for what it is.

2. The Red Queen made a correlation with books and media. Do you have to say something on the matter? How is a sex scene in a setting based on the exaggerated real life (all fantasy is that) inappropriate? A lot of books have that, a lot of the time a romantic/sexual aspect kicks in later in the story or even in sequels. Take Witcher books for example. Take game of thrones. Take DnD campaigns even. Those are all FUN but have sex.

You loved what you were served in your youth. Now you act like the world is obligated to serve you all the same. Are you some authority or something?

I really don't have a problem with anyone making a game with sex in it. If that's their thing then fine that's THEIR thing. My problem is that in MY PERSONAL OPINION, read that again, MY PERSONAL OPINION it does NOT belong in Baldur's Gate. That's it in a nut shell. I don't think it belongs in D&D at all but definitely not in the continuation of 2 very successful NON-sexual games. I persoanally think it's distasteful and find it disheartening and very disappointing. That's MY OPINION. YOU MAKE YOUR OWN.

Fine...but why limit your audience when the feature added a very questionable draw?

I seriously doubt many at all would say this made their D&D experience better...any way too late for that discussion.

I do vote for an off switch still.

That'd be great to have! The more customizable the game for one's tastes - the better!

1. Wow. Very confused here. Me that is. I NEVER said the game is CENTERED around porn. lol. Please point out where you got that from?

2. Nope, I have nothing to say about that. That has nothing to do with this game. I fail to see the point.

I was not "served in my youth". lol. And I certainly DON'T feel any obligation from ANYONE for ANYTHING. And I most certainly do NOT think I am ANY kind of "authority" on ANYTHING. lol. I don't know WHERE you're coming up with all this stuff. I most certainly am NOT better than ANYONE. Quite honestly I think I am far below most people. I can assure you I have NO ego problem.

Some games are -> Baldur's Gate (your baby duck version of it) is not -> It's an insult = Larian's Baldur's Gate 3 is



Game is a form of entertainment -> Films/Books are a form of entertainment -> they have maturity ratings -> those rated 18+ have sex -> films and books that have sex scenes/descriptions are okay (you watch porn) -> games that have sex scenes are not okay? stupidity detected?

" games that have sex scenes are not okay? stupidity detected?"
I guess I have to say it again, I have no real problem with them making a game with sex. I simply feel IN MY PERSONAL OPINION that it has no place in Baldur's Gate. That's all.

Its not the reason ...

As stated countless times before, this game contains lots of mature material ...
Blood, viscera, slavery, torture, racism, canibalism (ok, this one is not present anymore ... sadly ), consumation of sentient beings, rape (both indicated and litteral), harsh speaking, and lots and lots more!

Having option to show sex as it is?
That is just bonus you get from that rating aswell.

Depends ...

In this particular game?
There was few people here on this forum who allready stated that if they are looking at "romance" (read fuck) scene, its actualy part of character development. So ... i gues there is some value.

I wouldnt probably mind off switch at all ... not for some purist reason, mainly for youtubers and streamers ...

But ...
Concidering that Chubblot few days back datamined nude models ... including, OR excluding genitals ...
https://twitter.com/chubblot/status/1604538127556567040
I dare to presume that this is allready on Larians mind.

Fair point. But correct me if I am wrong - I believe the Forgotten realms setting always was much darker than other D&D settings. And Larian depicted it by using gore, violence, and slavery. This by itself would probably push the rating up to M. So adding sexual features at this point won't change the rating, but can attract a new audience who is tired of safe and family-friendly games. It worked with the Witcher series, I suppose. So it can work in both ways. The more interesting question for me is that how it will feel when playing coop. It is hard to remain serious with friends, and watching intimacy together can feel weird, even if you are committed to the story and companions. But an off switch is a great idea. It solves everything. +1 on that.

neprostoman you seriously need to re-read what you quoted me saying. I said EXACTLY " some games are centered around sex but D&D and Baldur's Gate definitely is not" SOME GAMES are. D&D and Baldur's Gate definitely is not. I CLEARLY said SOME ARE. SOME. READ what you're quoting dude.

What can we expect for the future of this game? Is Minsc going to get mad a Jaheria and rape her? Is she going to get mad at this and turn into an owlbear? Are we going to add rape and bestiality to this game too?
You know the worst part about that is that SOMEONE somewhere is reading it and saying "Hey that sounds good. Lets do that". You need help dude.

My Lord... Give neprostoman patience...

I am with the OP on this. I feel like the puerile need for masturbation in video games ruins the experience. Same thing happened with Pillars of Eternity: Deadfire. The first game was almost perfect, the sequel was a colour by numbers dating simulator. If your idea of "adult" and "mature" content is "sex" ... you have a lot of adulting and maturing to do. Truly.

Frankly, the kinds of gamers who think that this is "fun" are the kinds of gamers who ruin live, at-the-table D&D as well by trying to f*** everything that moves instead of playing ... the game. I get that many of you are starved for sex and physical human contact, but trust me ... this ain't it.

There are Harlequin Romance novels with better writing, characters, and sex than BG3, if you're looking for a quick fix.

And, so far from what I've played of the EA, there are video games with better writing, characters, and D&D than BG3.

It is amusing how you do not understand what I am talking about here even after I've deconstructed the whole thing in detail ... You said that BG3 is an insult to BG franchise right after you mentioned that BG and DND are not centred on sex. This, alongside with the huge initial rant with ALL CAPS all over the place imply that you somehow think that BG3 is centred around sex. If you didn't mean it, you surely didn't manage to convey the message you wanted to convey.

The sex scenes in this game with stiff animation combined with detailed positions are very cringe and borderline comedy. And the fact that all companions basically wait in line to throw themselves at you feels like poor writing. Any excuse to trigger those scenes will do.

I just wish the devs didn't go there. Tilting the camera up after the first kiss or whatever and leaving it up to the player's imagination would work much better than trying to craft virtual sex scenes in a game engine. It's like some cringe juvenile fantasy come to life with clumsy game CGI. And I have to wonder who is this soft porn in a game for?

^ this, 120%

I can't even imagine being a dev working on this.

"You want me to animate what?"

The romance is literally 5% of every companion's dialog in POE 2. Some companions' dialogs you will probably not even unlock easily and some are not romanceable at all. I have 275 hours in POE 2, and all the romance part was maybe 15 minutes of that time. Maybe less. And it was extremely sensual too. I do not know where to masturbate there.

Like BG3, every single conversation moves you towards sex in POE2. Every single one of them. You can't just talk to someone to learn about their lore without trying to fuck them. You had to actively try NOT to fuck them. I spit on this kind of crappy writing.

And that is poor writing. I'm sorry that you feel affinity towards it. I cringe to think that that's how people approach real life relationships. "oh, they talked to me, they must want to bang".

You're absolutely right, I certainly DON'T understand you. You said I said the game IS centered around sex. I clearly pointed out that I DIDN'T say that. As for the caps they are simply meant to emphesise certain words to more clearly express them. Sorry if you take my words other than intended. YES I most certainlky said that I don't feel that sex belongs in Baldur's Gate. I definitely don't think it does and yes I definitely feel it's ruining the name. That's MY OPINION. Your's doesn't have to be the same. I'm totally fine if you think otherwise. That's great that you have your own mind/thoughts/opinion. Don't let someone else make them for you. I'M not trying to do that for you or ANYONE other than myself.

Where did you get it, actually? I remember Serafen's hints towards that, but he is a pirate with no manners. Maybe Eder, I do not remember. But usually, you know that there is an obvious option leading toward romance, and I just did not click on it.

Did we really played the same game? There are so few approval dialogue choices in BG3, and any sex scene is hidden behind like multiple confirmations. People have a hard time to trigger those even by trying hard with a guide.

The dialogue options are as opaque as "be nice, try to bang" and "be mean, to not bang". There is no nuance, no avenue for actual character development or exploration.

More to the point, as many have mentioned, sex and complex relationships have potential to add a lot to narrative and role playing, but this isn't that. And not only is this not that, it's badly done on top of it. The writing is insipidly juvenile.

I didn’t make it far through PoE 2 so can’t comment on that, but agree BG3 is currently clunky with what seems to be the same attitude system used to measure both platonic liking and sexual attraction in the early game. Of course those are different things, and while I’d settle for handwaving the current approach given it’s not realistic to expect all nuance of relationship building to be implemented in the game, I’d be more than happy if the writing and story-telling in this respect were improved.


Gah! More unnecessarily confrontational language in this thread.

There is nothing wrong with the level of sex or nudity in this game, its got a rating, this is how this works in media and entertainment. Don't be triggered by this persons conservative pearl clutching perspective.

"How to close have a thread closed by mods : lessons 1 to 10"

Tip : "All caps" text is code for shouting. People will read this as such. That's how communication works.
If you want to highlight some part of you text, you can use paragraphs, bold font, underlines, colors and so on.
The "quick reply" presents a "Use Full Editor" which would help with this.

Cheers!

Fair enough. Good to know. Thank you. I'll try to remember this.

Couldn't say it better, this thread looks like a Steam forums thread with all of their flaws.

You might think it's unnecessary, Red Queen, but I think it is wholly pertinent.

The argument in support of these kinds of encounters in games is based upon the maturity of adult situations and complexity.

If this is a representation of what that complexity means to the people supporting it ... I don't for a second think that the psychology of merging active and passive forms of agency is irrelevant.

I don't buy the "oh but it's a game" excuse for a second. These are expressions of desired behaviour without the constraints of morality, and the game is just an accessory to masturbation at that point.

There are plenty of games like this, such as Leisure Suit Larry and the like, but at least they don't hide it under the guise of being "mature, dark roleplaying." They don't pretend to be more. And the people playing them don't pretend they're more. And, to press the point, in Leisure Suit Larry, you actually have to TRY to win people over.

People who buy Harlequin Romance know what they are looking for and they want it. People who buy Anne Rice but get Danielle Steele instead are GOING to be angry. Imagine buying Stephen King's latest horror only to find out it was actually written by Dean Koontz.

And again, back to the original distinctions being made ... there is nothing objectively wrong with any of this in terms of desire.

But THIS GAME ... doesn't fit in THAT MEDIUM. and THIS GAME is the topic at hand.

edit: I feel the need to point out the obvious - this is MY OPINION. Not me telling you yours is wrong.

Of course there’s nothing wrong with expressing your opinion. And I agree with some but not all of what you say.


My point was merely that the above sentences, specifically, seemed to be more about throwing shade on others’ views rather than expressing your own.

But while I’ve been trying to appeal for some moderation and mutual respect in the way we engage with one another I think I’m now just contributing to the general ruckus, so that’s me now out of this thread.

I watched little game of thrones due to what I would describe gratuitous violence and nudity (aka. Violence and nudity serving little to no narrative purpose and seemed to be there to shock/entertain viewer) and Witcher is hardly a positive example of consistently handling “mature content” well, especially in later books, though I was more favourable towards the books in my teens. Even so, it is Baldur’s Gate, not GoT nor Witcher. Even outside the franchise, game’s tone is all over the place. Perhaps if they included as much over the top slapstick in their sex scenes as they do in combat it would feel more coherent.

In Game of Thrones, violence serves a great narrative purpose. They often use it in important story moments, such as when a character is in danger or dies. You actually see that in every detail. So it does not create a shock but makes the shock from a character's death stronger. It also feels much more intimate, because of how real it is. You can project your own body and your own senses onto this character. It is disturbing, but this is the main point. As for nudity - well, it does not look like entertaining nudity. It often grim - depict women like sex objects in this world, or shows how characters manipulate each other or simply do not care about each other (like scenes in brothels). I think it fits the setting extremely well, and even if it is sometimes needed only to shock a viewer - it also serves a narrative purpose. This setting should feel uncomfortable. All of this can also be said about the Witcher, but sometimes it feels like Andrzej Sapkowski just wanted to entertain, yes. Well, I guess we need to know that Geralt is successful with women. It does not look like a bad thing. At least it can attract a new audience.

And as far as I know - Forgotten realms is a relatively dark setting too, and the first two games are not fairy tale stories. Hard to say how they would be depicted with modern technologies. Looks like a good D&D setting to introduce all these narrative methods for me.

DO NOT DARE TOUCH MY CUTSCENES!! JUST USE YOUR LEFT HAND :P. All joking aside, i think they can add a setting on in the main menu to turn of all 18+ scenes. Simple fix really.

Actually, yes ^.^

As others have mentioned, this is not 'new' in any way - it's been in the game for a long time and it's been advertised as something you can do if you want to pursue it for just as long. there were even interviews that spoke about it, and their efforts to write and choreograph it.

It's important to note that - it's there if you want to pursue it, and if you don't want to pursue it, you can very easily turn people down, or not invite them to intimacy. Even if you meet all the conditions, you actively have to make the choice that says 'Yes, sir or madam, I would indeed like to have one sex with you, please!", and you are given two to three dialogue opportunities once you're in that conversation to back out of it again. You've really got to want to see it, to do so.

That said, there are those who want the story element to recognise that their character has become intimate with someone else, and to acknowledge that sex and intimacy are a part of the world (shock-horror!), without seeing it directly - that's fine too, and I support Larian adding in a setting that will be something you can easily turn on or off from the menu that will black fade the scene or not play them... but that may mean that some players will miss out on some relationship development, since, though it may surprise some people, sex is often the medium during which other growths and explorations of relationships happen - you get a choice or two in the post-coital glow with Minthara, and the dialogue decisions you make there are firmly entangled with the visual on screen at the time, which involves, at minimum, a naked breast or two.

So, my criticism is, yes, that the scenes as we're able to see right now are simply not satisfactory enough. They aren't well choreographed, they aren't well shot, they're awkward and clunky, and they have no pacing, no atmosphere and no emotion as a result; they are poorly done, and they don't adapt well to the character you bring to the scene either.

Just to illustrate that this has been along standing issue, and to say things more clearly than I will in this post, I'd like to invite those genuinely interested in a discussion of the scene and how it is designed to look over here:

Focused Feedback: Minthara's Intimacy [Heavy Spoilers][potentially NSFW screenshots and language]

==

As an aside - this seems to have flared up as a conversation topic right now, apparently because of something that data-miners found. As far as I've been able to see, the nudity that is in the game right now is purely female upper-body nudity, because the game models are barbie and ken dolls on their lower half, and smooth around the bends - we have modelled and textured nipples (and always have had for all female characters, player and NPC alike), but nothing down below. Was something found recently that changes this?

and I stand by my opinion that this (the game's approach to sex) is a cringeworthy expression of mature/adult behaviour and sexual/romantic relationships in a medium designed to provide agency to a demographic categorically known for taking things too far and hyper focusing on repetition. this isn't throwing shade on other people's opinions.

I didn't specifically name anyone, because this is a comment on the unhealthy depiction of such content. And it's inappropriate, tonally, to the rest of the franchise. I again point to the difference between D&D tables where the players are more prone to try and sleep with everything than go off adventuring. That is clearly the kind of table that Swen runs.

The fact that the character creation process includes a "design your ideal fuck doll" section is a MASSIVE RED FLAG for the rest of the game's treatment of sex and maturity. Most of this is a moot point anyway because it's not going anywhere. But that doesn't for a moment absolve Larian of the well earned criticisms of very badly made fiction presented irresponsibly.

edit: you can't claim maturely addressing content like this without being willing to engage on the responsibility side of things. that's kind of the marker between maturity and immaturity: taking responsibility.

I can't help but laugh looking at the raunchy frames from the Minthara romance thread. And I don't think that was the intent there.

I would like romance to be a part of the game but it really can't be comedy soft porn like this. Turning the companions down just to avoid these... scenes... would also feel wrong.

Seriously Larian... take your time building romantic developments and don't force these awkward "do you want to sleep with me tonight" choices on us at the first party if we haven't even flirted at all. Lae'zel is believable being so bluntly direct about it from out of the blue but the rest, not so much.

And the explicit (somewhat acrobatic, even) positions are 100% comedy. The game graphics and animation make it worse when you try to be too detailed. Please keep it to simple shots and leave the rest up to the player's imagination.

I do not understand how to quote yet, so to Niara - ''Was something found recently that changes this?''. Yes, actually there are moders who claim they found female genitalia in Patch 9 files and implemented it with some awkward clipping issues.

So, a long as we can sit up suddenly, the morning after, and immediately start shouting at our bedfellow about how they have to take responsibility now, we'll be set....

No wait, that means we've ended up in a bad hentai... my mistake ^.^

(this is said entirely tongue in cheek, I promise)

==

Thanks for the info, Garold. I'm curious about what they intend with that, in that case; a section of my discussions on intimate scenes and choreography has to do with what you shoot and how you shoot it, and the atmosphere and tone that you're aiming for - and one of the major conclusions I reached was that they either need to change the shooting of most of their scenes in numerous ways, or the models need to be 'complete' down below - and that anything else just makes the scenes ridiculous. I'd admit surprise if they decided that to choose the latter of those two options, but I'll wait to see what they do with it. Personally, I think it's brave of them to do this, as full-in as they are, and I'm not against it; I'd like more control over the intimate scenes (the ability to pick options for how I behave, or what I want the encounter to be like), and I'd like them to be done well... and I actually hope they do not get shy, or cave in to stigma, and make a solid effort of it instead.

==

I will say... I looked at the assets that have been mined, and it made me think... okay, but, there aren't any waxing salons on the chionthir, so... will I get to choose my personal grooming preference? Shameless as it is, I kinda would like to be able to define that, if we're going all in on this element of charcater design.

You... have very different kinds of friends you play D&D with than I do. Insert bard joke here.

I have [... checks Steam ...] over 800 hours into POE2. That is very much not my experience.

Right?

Almost every game I've ever played has had adult content of different levels, and I once played in a game where we resolved several situations with an application of gratuitous sex (no, I'm not joking), and had two separate dragons try it on with my character. In all cases we had fade-to-black sex scenes (yes, even in that one game), and players sometimes got their boundaries a bit pushed, but a little bit of respectful conversation between players and DM went a long way towards resolving any issues we had regarding sexual content.

Sometimes, people view their character's sexual preferences (or lack thereof) as an important part of what makes up their whole character, and sometimes they don't. People's comfort regarding sexual content varies wildly, and this is why I'm very much in favour of people being able to opt-out of sex scenes if they want to. I get that Larian perhaps wants to push on some boundaries, but that isn't going to be something everyone likes or wants.

Did they change something? Did they make it so you can accidentally trigger the sex scenes?

I am one who hopes that Larian will provide some ability to censor the game for people like me who would like romance with a fade to black so we don't need to watch naughty business if we don't want to but we can still have the ability to see the dialogue sequences afterwards, etc. However, there is a positive way and a negative to ask for it. Most of this thread does not seem positive.

Yes. I'd like the ability to turn off vulgarity and sex. However, fighting with other forum members is not going to make that happen.

As was mentioned, they showed us the Kama Sutra poses in the one of the first teasers, so people clutching their pearls now seems a little odd.

I find most the dialogues with the Duergar more offensive than any temp sex scene with Minthara. I have no idea what the end product will look like, how explicit or how inarticulate the scenes will be, but I think if they're actually there to tell a story, Larian should go ham.

People shouldn't be afraid of being a little offended now and then anyway.

There is one thing i dont understand ...
People demanding "longer romance development" ...

I mean, i dont really want to get personal here, but did you know that romance dont have to (and healthy one usualy dont) end after first sex? O_o

I suspect that what people asking for longer development mean is that they want more development before the first night. I wonder if that comes from pattern of games typically saving the first night and the official forming of the relationship for the end of the game? Once you get that and maybe a couple interactions after, then the romance part of the interactions tend to end, beyond maybe one or two repeatable lines or comments. So maybe that request is just due to people feeling instinctively like the party scenes are the end of the romance, because that's how other games of this sort have trained their expectations? If you think about it, it's actually not just games. In most media involving romance, the actual formation of the couple is saved for the end as a climactic moment. When was the last movie you watched where the main romantic characters were truly together before the end of the movie? Usually if the characters were together, they're estranged or the relationship is on the rocks, it's somehow fractured. The romantic plot is about them repairing the fracture to come together again by the end. And look how often in serial TV is the romantic tension the will-they, won't they? And when they actually do get together, if the show keeps going significantly past that point, usually the relationship breaks up and they redo the plot or replace the love interest with a new one entirely. It's rare for media, especially popular media to follow a stable relationship significantly through its run. Add to that the fact that after the first night, we don't get many romantic nods beyond one conversation, it seems. So again, people's narrative instincts are making them see the first night at the party as the end of the meaningful romance portion of things.

Having said all that, I actually don't think the romantic development we've seen is that bad. I've only seen Gale and Shadowheart's so far, but I think it makes sense for Lae'zel to be reticent and not really show romantic interest until the end. Same with Astarion, though I haven't actually had him in my party very much so I'm sure I've just not seen any scenes that might set up his romance. Wyll, I have him in my party a lot and he also doesn't have much setup that I've seen. But looking specifically at Gale and Shadowheart, I think they're both very well done romances so far. Gale's romance effectively starts at the Weave scene. I found it a really good moment. It was so good that I, someone who basically never romances guys in games, actually decided to do romance him then and there. From there you get a handful of other romantic interactions throughout the act that I think are very cute and effective. I think that the sex scene at the party is earned by that point and really feels like the culmination of a budding romance. The way it reads to me, if you forgive him for dropping the Mystra stuff the morning after, you're a full on couple from there on out. That's very interesting to me and I look forward to seeing that play out in the full release. I really suspect that however consciously, Gale is manipulating us for our help and the conflict of our relationship is how much is he able to truly care for us compared to his longing for Mystra.

Shadowheart meanwhile, she also doesn't get many scenes that really imply romance, just the opportunity to flirt here and there. Her party scene is a traditional beginning to a romance. And a really good one too. It's the classic 'moment you both let your guard down' scene, where camaraderie turns into something more. Structurally, it's her equivalent to Gale's Weave scene, the moment when the romance truly starts. It's also not a sex scene. The way you refer to it in the conversation after makes it really seem as though you both just kissed and that's it.

I suspect that the fact everything for everyone comes to a head at the party. It was absolutely worse in early patches though. I just went through the party scene and those interactions do feel more natural overall.

This has got to be one of the most asinine complaints I've seen.

The game is rated M and says in the description on Steam that it has nudity and sexual themes. Don't act like this was some kind of surprise.

Don't want to see sex? Then turn down offers for sex. Simple as.

That would be my suspection aswell ...
I just dont like it to be honest. :-/ It just feels wrong, dunno how else to say it.

I mean, if you think about it ...
In Mass Effect for example ... they go sleep together just before final mission ... i would totally get the message "this is suicide mission, there is no guarantee we will come back, lets spend our time together" ... makes perfect sense ...
EXCEPT!
This is the way you can describe EVERY MISSION during whole game.
I mean, yeah risk is probably biger in the last one ... but wouldnt you feel like an idiot if you would "wait for your special time with Liara" just to she shooted in the head (or worse) litteraly 1 mission before that?
An lorewise, that can totally happen! I know we as players know well enough that our hero will last to the finish ... not exactly sure about our romance partner tho ... is there any logical reason to wait?

Now dont get me wrong, i totally get when one of characters wants to "be sure" this is what they want ... just as Liara in first Mass Effect game, just as Aleister in Dragon Age, just as Shadowheart in BG-3 ...
That is totally fine!

But if two mature ... beings, who are spending every second of their life together, facing life threatening dangers on daily (hourly? :D) basis, are litteraly living on borrowed time and know well enough that they can die any time even if there will be no fighting ... both agree that they WANT to sleep with each other ...
Give me single reason they shouldnt. I dont have any.
It may sometimes raise a red flag about health of their relationship ... 100% agree ... but as we know, not all relationships are model examples.

//Edit:
What im trying to say is: Im glad Larian allowed our characters to have sex ... it feels right.
Cant say i really need explicitly show how they do it ... but i dont mind that either.

To me, this whole "lets wait for perfect moment, and then NEVER mention it again" is stupid concept, that should end, and therefore, this is step in right direction. :P

I agree that the tone of this topic is extreme and hostile and over the top, but it's not as simple as you make it out. I would like the ability to have romance without seeing two pixel models doing it. Romance does not equal sex. You can have lots of romance in a story and zero sex. You can also have lots of sex and zero romance.

Also, there are story and dialogue wrapped into the sex events in BG3 that you miss unless you watch the sex scenes. That's also frustrating because now I have to miss story stuff if I don't want to watch naked pixel people doing it.

I am also not keen on the vulgarity of the duergar. I get it. Story wise, it fits, but I don't like it and would love to have a beep out system so I don't have to hear or read their vulgarity everywhere I go in Grymforge

This could all be solved by Larian providing an option to fade to black and censor foul language.

Do they have the right to not do this and to leave as is? Absolutely. No question. Would it be nice if they provided the censor option? Absolutely. I would have a ton more respect for them if they did.

Good thing we have both. ^_^
And some things in between aswell.

No you dont ...
You can simply hit spacebar few times and skip through scenes you dont like ... what part of story are you missing then?
The way *insert companion name here* moan? I believe you can survive that. :P

Sure ... concidering how many people stream this game, and how much easier it would make their lives.

I mean romance is fundamentally not a logical thing. People are weird and inconsistent and do things for reasons that sometimes only make sense to themselves individually, or stop making sense the moment they put it into words. Add to that high-stakes, high-pressure situations and people only get weirder. There's also the issue that sometimes the companion doesn't really know if they want to sleep with our character or not. RPG companions are usually mired in trauma and issues of one sort or another that they need to work through and figure out. Or they just haven't figured out how they feel about us yet. Here's an example. When my grandmother was stressed, she would often not want to eat. She'd just skip meals. When I'm stressed, I immediately start looking for something to eat. People react to stressful times differently. A high-stress time could just ruin the mood because they have too much on their mind. Plus there's also the narrative aspect of it. It does make sense that from a narrative standpoint, getting together with your love interest serves as part of the big climax of a story.

Ultimately though, I agree there should be more variety. I like that in the dragon age games, most of your romantic relationships pretty much lock in by the middle of the game, give or take.

Oh my, just wait until you grow up and find out about taxes...

"Good thing we have both." Meh. I'm not impressed thus far with the romances in BG3. As said before, they're just very abrupt. There's no lead-in or flirting or nothing. It's just BAM! "Wanna do it?" Shadowheart has a little, and I think they may have added a little more with a few others, but it's not much. Frankly, it just seems like ALL the companions are easy. But then, it's been awhile since I even tried.

"No you don't..." Well, to be fair, it's been awhile since I attempted any romance with any character because I simply don't like them. I seem to recall that there were some dialogue/story elements with Astarion in particular and Minthara for sure - little hints and clues about who they are, their pasts, and so forth. I don't think you can skip without missing some of the dialogues, but again, I can't remember.

Sure... concidering how many people stream this game..." Yes. This is definitely a reason why they would benefit from such a feature. I mean, I could care less about that personally, but streaming is a HUGE advertising platform for any game, so if they want even MORE free marketing, providing censor options to cut out sex scenes and vulgar duergar/anyone's dialogues would be good. They could then even market it as something parents could allow their kids to play provided they simply use the parental control settings. So, although I don't care much about the censorship for streaming aspect, I DO want this game to succeed and make Larian a ton of money so they make a BG4. Thus, I do care to some degree about this aspect of the topic.

I'm not sure why we have to keep compairing this game to other games? We aren't talking about other games. We're talking about Baldur's Gate which I clearly stated that my personal opinion does not belong having sex scense. Simple as that. I don't care if your other games have sex in them. I'm talking about Baldur's Gate.
What am I suposed to tell my niece when she walks in while I'm trying to play? "Oh hey sweetie piss off I'm playing a game that for no reason has adult content that is really not needed."?
It's very distasteful in Baldur's Gate. That's my view.
Like the ogre and bugbear weren't enough of a surprise? lol. That part was obviously done by someone with a big dick and ego as can clearly be told by the option to coment on the bugbears small dick. How tasteful is that? Yes that's absolutely nescesarry to bully small dick people in a video game. Yes I do feel persoanlly attacked by this because yes, unfortunately I am under the average size. I never thought I would actually feel personally attacked/bllied by a video game but there you go. Like I don't have enough of a problem with it that you have to make fun of me with a game? Nice and tasteful.
But that's another story. My entire point is just that I personally don't feel sex should be in Baldur's Gate. Don't soil the name/franchise. Make a new game and have your silly fun there.
I do definitely like the idea of a slider/switch that has been mentioned by some to turn the crap off if we want to.
For the record I most definitely have tried sexual things in my D&D sessions. Not literally in person but in the game. lol. I'm human (unfortunately) so yes I do also desire sex. Just not in Baldur's Gate. I am very sexual and quite perverted as a person so I totally understand this side of things.

Baldur's Gate always had at least implied sex, BG2 had implied player sex. Heck, you could even have a baby (or rather, if I remember correctly, forced to have one if you wanted to ramance the poor elf), talk about things that don't belong. If you draw a line at watching them you can just skip them or not choose to partake in the first place. Or wait and see if Larian decide for an off switch.

Uhm, not sure what to say here. Never did I look at the scene and went "yeah, that's a small dick joke right there, ha!", more like "yikes, won't be opening that door anymore, thanks.". Not sure what the intention was behind it.

Like I said, the sex was always there. Hells, even the whole concept of the story was that a diety went on and sired tons of children. There are ways to skip the scenes and I hope there will be a toggle for those of us who won't want to watch it for whatever reason. If not - no big deal for me personally, I have both hands on the desk and can skip either with a keyboard or a mouse if needed

Well, gaining their reputation is the lead up, and I can see it working better for someone else if one is consciously aiming to get together with a companion. So getting to know, and liking each other seems systemised, which I find awkward.

Romance scene being a set thing for ALL companions at the same time makes it very artificial and awkward on top of it.

And even a softer romance, like with Shadowheart, feels like a jarring shift with it being really first time we talk to each other. There is little show of sympathy or even interest, and then sudden romantic alone time. I don’t think the scene is bad in itself, it’s just all lead up are notifications about reputation gain.

Dragon Age: Origins had similar set up and aside from embarrassingly awkward cutscenes they worked well. Morrigan was quick to kiss and sex, but it made sense - both in the moment and in retrospect. Characters were aware of your affairs, but their responses felt authentic.

BG3 is just so very clunky in the character interactions. They don’t feel like people, and your conversation options don’t feel like conversations. Which I think at the core of my issues - romances don’t feel like interactions. It feels like a limited choice of romance/sex scenes depending on unrelated quest choices. You have done choices X, Y, Z so you get a romance scene with companion B.

I think it is backwards - you should get to know a companion, get attached to him and her, and then try to win them over, not get one “assigned” with a potential to get to know and like them later, if you try to make a move now.

What is this sort of argument? About "What I am going to say to my niece/child". I see it a lot recently. Hard to understand how it corresponds to the topic. There are a lot of things that are not marked for children. And you said not to compare games, and yet you compare with the first BG games, which were made by a different studio 20 years ago. The setting is the same, and as was said above, this setting includes all themes which BG3 has, just not as graphically.

What you said really makes sense, but doesn't the approach "you should get to know a companion, get attached to him and her, and then try to win them over" also feel a bit strange? I remember it from POE 2 and Bioware games. This feels a bit unnatural too because you do not have any romantic relationship until one exact moment in the middle/end of the game. I agree that it is done a bit awkward in BG3 right now, but it looks fresher. What if the scene in act 1 which we get is just the beginning of complex relationships that will grow throughout the game? And the beginning of the relationship can sometimes feel sudden.

Vitani the part about the small dick joke is right there in selectable text option. It literally mentions somethng about him being small.

Garold the argument about "What I am going to say to my niece/child" is just that. What do you tell them when they accidently see what is on the screen of your computer because you were not expecting it yourself so you just have to tell them flat out that they have to stay away from you and your computer while you play the game because you never know when something is going to come on the screen. No pun intended. lol. As for saying don't compare games and then comparing BG3 to BG1 and 2 well that's just obvious. They go together. That's part of the point. I guess you're not seeing that. Yes they are made by different companies, but they do still go together. As for the sex and childbirth someone else mentioned, yeah that's in there but you don't actually see anything. That's kinda the point here. The seeing it happen. Yes I can skip through it. Yes I will be in the future. That doesn't change the fact that I still have to pay for someone to get paid to spend hours getting off as they create cartoon porn that I then get forced to pay for. Thankfully I did not pay for this "game". My nephew got it as a gift. He and I play together sometimes. Like I really want to watch porn with my nephew? Lol. NO. And what exactly happens with multiplayer romance options anyway? Can he and I do a threeway with Minthara? That sounds like something I really wanna do with my nephew. No thank you. I'm not into multi-partner sex with anyone thanks.

Yup ... or it can flip their slut switch.
As you said, variety is the key here. :3

---

Do you often watch porn / brutal gore / super scarry horrors ... with your niece in the same room?
Do you often read out loud from playboy, or other mature magazines ... with your niece in the same room?
Do you masturbate in front of her?
No?
Didnt think so ...
Maybe that would be the key?

I mean, why should "playing 18+ videogame" have litteraly any different approach then "watching 18+ movie", "reading 18+ magazine", or simply "doing 18+ stuff"?
Its all inapropriate in front of that child, isnt it? O_o

ESRB rating is there for a reason ... if you refuse to follow it, dont blame the product, its your fault.

Let me guess, you and your nephew don't kill anyone in the game, because it would count as a serial-killer duo and you really don't want to practice cartoon murder together with your nephew? Damn..

Oh, didn't remember that. Like I said - done it once and avoid the door like the plague now.

Uhm...well, if you play a 18+ game with a minor you kind of do so on your own responsibility. That's what it boils down to. You are responsible for what minors under your care do and/or watch. The rating is clear, the game has sexual content, if you don't want a minor playing with you see it choose another game. BG3 is not a game designed to be played with minors.

My problem with your argument was that you just tried to say that there is no place for such content, that it is distasteful, and so on, instead of "Yeah, this content limits my possibilities to play". It was hard to understand, what is the main problem for you? And this is not only about you. Other people also used this argument, but it does not look valid, because of how much content is done with M rating and is not supposed to be played with children or be viewed by them. This does not make the content objectively bad, just not content that suits them. "What am I supposed to tell my niece when she walks in while I'm trying to play?" vs "I usually have underaged people with me when playing, so including a filter or off switch would be useful for me" - same meaning, but less aggressive and shows what you are implying much better, I think.

As for BG1, 2, and 3 go together - yeah, I do not get it. But I would genuinely love to hear your explanation, no joking.

Ragnarok you're confusing. Do I do these things with her in the room? Of course not. I clearly said "if she walks into the room". Read that again "if she walks into the room". Are you actually paying attention? My point about this part of the argument is that I am basically forced to bane her from the room. How nice.

neprostoman yes we most definitely kill shit. Lots of it. That sort of thing is what these types of games is really about. The sex is just added to it. I have zero problem with romance in a game. I don't really care if you put nudity in a game. I don't really care if you put sex in a game, except for certain games like Baldur's Gate. I personally feel it doesn't belong here. It's just not a sexual game in my opinion. Romance yes. And yes I am certainly aware that romance leads to sex. Despite what some of you obviously think, I am not an idiot. I know how things work.

As some of you have mentioned, one of the early released teasers showed this sex scene? I never saw that released teaser so I never saw the sex scene in it. Just because they released the teaser and you saw it doesn't mean everyone else saw it too.

On a little side note about this game and nudity and all, what exactly is the point of the nude elf flash during the initial start of character creation? If you pay attention when character creation very first starts you get a split second of the female elf standing there naked before they throw the barbarian clothes on her. Why? Lol. Someone is doing pointless stuff just to get off at work. But hey, who doesn't want to get off right? lol

Also a little funny side of things, kinda funny in a way anyway, I never knew that halflings were so well endowed. At least the women anyway. If you look at the models during character creation you can see that halflings, while being the smallest of all the races, have the biggest breasted women. Kudos to them I guess. This is not a complaint, I just think it's a little funny that the smallest actually have the biggest.

These threads. Maybe mods should just shut these things down the moment they get made.

"Hi, this is a copypasta response to threads about adult content. There's broad, almost unanimous concensus that the animations are cringe and a preferences toggle to disable nudity and/or romance should be offered. We're locking this thread to new comments."

Because these things are almost always cookie-cutter duplicates, and always go off the rails.

I'm confused yet again. Some of you say "These posts" yet I don't see a single other post about this topic. Where are YOU seeing them?

There's at least one other right now, maybe in the general discussion forum, and they pop up once or twice a month

This. Earlier games didn't have these kind of scenes because the technology to create them did not exist. Go back and watch the intro for BG1 with Sarevok in the tower if you need a reminder of what was possible back then. Not to mention there have been numerous mods to expand the romance options for the first two games, which didn't happen because nobody wanted it. The whole premise is asinine; if you don't want to see it, skip it. If you're worried about a young family member seeing it, you made a choice to give them access to a game with an 18+ rating and that is on you, not the developer. For example, my father did not watch Terminator 2 in the lounge at 1pm on a Sunday when I was young. He did not keep books with adult themes on shelves I could reach as an 11-year-old. My mother used to check what videos I got from Blockbuster on the rare occasions she wasn't with me in the store when I rented them. If I ever have a niece I would hope to spend our time together doing something more social than playing computer games in another room; but if I do, there is a very wide range of games I can play without fear of the sound of the doorknob...

Do I think a filter button to fade to black instead is a bad idea? Absolutely not, for all kinds of reasons. But an argument that the developer shouldn't make the game they want to make because of your subjective, inaccurate nostalgia for a 20-year old prequel? It's unlikely to get any kind of response that you are looking for...

https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=836226
https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=837882

And the "debate" is always the same.


@colinl8 : It's not so much a suggestion to :
that has been suggested but an option to disable "nudity and/or explicit sex" (fade to black where appropriate). Which is a big difference.

^^ I thoroughly enjoy the romance (including the before, a little bit during, and after sex). I just could do without the explicit (X-rated style) sex (M rated could be fine if done well). And again, as an option.

I can’t find definite ratings for original Baldur’s Gate1&2 but they do seem to sit comfortably in T rating even compared to its cRPG contemporaries, like Fallout. I think it is you misremembering how tame those games were. Profanities had hardly place in those game, not to mention explicit sex scenes.

Edit. Whatever, anyway. It’s Baldur’s Gate game in name only, and visual, tonal and narrative issues that (as of this early build) this game has goes far beyond awkward romance cutscenes.

Not at all ...

But have it your way:
What would you do "if she walks into the room" (exact quote, im really curious what excuse will you use this time ) while you were watching porn and masturbating?

Purely hypotetical question!
Anyway ... do the same with that game and you are fine.
And no, i dont mean hide monitor into your pants as fast as possible.

I don't want to "skip it".

The writing and cinematic execution just need to be more tasteful and technically of much higher quality. If they can't pull these scenes off well, it's better to cut them short.

And frankly, after seeing the limitations of the engine concerning character models interacting, I would prefer the animation team spend their efforts on something else entirely besides awkward 69'ing.

WTF

I think my preference falls closer to how DOS2 handled things. I don't think the animation is up to it, and a degree of 'imagination' makes for a better experience filling in the blanks IMO. I think sentiments similar to mine were expressed in the old big thread on the Minthara sex scene, but my feelings were that -opinions on the quality of the animations and explicit animations in general aside- the physical body language of the scene itself felt very off, and didn't really match what I was expecting from the dialogue both prior to the act in the scene where she seduces you at the goblin 'party' and earlier when she sends you the psychic projection of her desires after the raid on the grove. A fade to black, possibly with a narration (like DOS2 handled things) I think might have been preferable.

it's sad that this gets so many posts and important threads don"t:)

I will never, ever understand the sort of people who can watch hours upon hours of wanton and graphic violence but suddenly start clutching their pearls at a 45-second sex scene.

The game is rated M. If you don't like games that are rated M, then don't play them.


Such as?


Rated.

M.


That's crazy, I would lose respect for them if they deviated from implementing promised features in order to essentially make a version of the game that is rated T and delay the game even further.

Not every game is for everyone. If you believe it'd be unreasonable to ask Nintendo to add sex scenes to Animal Crossing, then what you're doing is exactly as unreasonable.

Is it?
Seems only natural to me ...

Thats why we have so many magazines talking about wich famous people sleep with each other ... and so little magazines about politic.

I think there is difference in the way Larian handles violence and sex. Even so, it is a game set in Dungeon&Dragons setting, not whore houses and dildos. Is it so shocking that at least part of the audience is put off but soft porn cutscenes in their dungeon delving games? I mean FromSoftware games are pretty grim and violent, but I feel it would be a bit out of place if I run into sex scene.

On top of that, games tend to do violence very well and tend to attract people who enjoy that kind of entertainment. Games are adversarial in their nature. A sex scene cutscene is just that - an uninteractive cutscene. Existence of such content (uninteractive cutscenes) is questionable at best, especially if they are disposable.



So in your opinion M rating absolves the game from any criticism on its writing and content? I strongly disagree. Any content can be badly written/directed or just doesn’t benefit the movie/film/book from being there in the first place. Godfather book has this lengthy subplot about how big penis Sonny has, with entire subplot of a girl who had an unusually big vagina and only Sony could satisfy her, and so on and so on. The film mostly cut this subplot - and to anyones shock it is better for it!

I think if another studio did an Animal Crossing game I think it would be fair to complain if that game had explicit sex scenes and profanities, which is the situation we have with BG3. BG1&2 are rated T.

Not that I personally expect them to do anything at this point, aside from making cutscenes at least a bit less bad. But they are not absolved from criticism - an age rating is reflection of the content in game, but is not a proof that this content should be there in the first place, or that it is done well. Ride to Hell had M rating and it was till rather crap (or so I heard).

Did I miss where Back_Stabbath said that?

Wow. Why so hostile? I'm not asking them to remove the sex scenes and vulgarity. Just provide an option - maybe - if it isn't too much trouble, for the sake of increasing their own sales potential to reach a greater audience.

There are people who don't like watching sex scenes but they like violence. There are people who can't handle violence but they love watching sex on screen. There are people who hate cursing and those who curse like sailors because they don't seem to like normal speech.

M does not mean Sex. It means Mature for various possible content. Also Baldur's Gate 3 is a sequel that many want to play because of the story and characters. Some people, like me, struggle to buy a game like BG3 with an M rating that says it has sex scenes because I've been burnt before.

There are games where you walk into an area and a graphic sexual thing happens. Those are immediate Nope games to me. If I can play the game and at least avoid the sex scenes, I'll buy it and play it, so for that I am grateful to Larian. However, when a game puts content into sex scenes so that I have to watch them to gain insight into characters backstories etc, that's not cool.

I've struggled through the weird Minthara scene once, and I remember dialogue that helps you learn a little more about her character and backstory. I remember Astarion having some sequence about his past and his back scars. I can't remember anything else because it's been like 2 years or something, but whatever. The point is, content can be missed unless you watch sex with pixels.

Finally, I like romance in games, but I like it when they either don't include the sex aspect or they fade to black. BG games did this in the past when you develop a romance with one of them. I remember Seige of Dragonspear, developing a romance with the Captain lady. At the end, you have the option to sleep with her. If you say yes, fade to black. No weird sex animations, noises, etc. But the romance was there throughout the game. That was fun.

BG3 romance is abrupt, graphic and weird, and I don't enjoy it. I'd like the option to remove it.

well didnt know bg 3 and those share the same target audience but ok hehehe anyway carry one.

To GM4Him

What if sex is crucial to character's backstory? What if it helps to form the character image? If you are skipping on what Larian wants to tell about their characters - it means you are not that interested in their story as you pretend to be.

Edit: the way I see it, games are art. They are born from an idea and are shapen by people who invested in that idea. You don't teach other people how to and how not to do art. I am not talking about you now, just in general. If a game starts to please audiences rather than staying true to the idea and becomes more politics rather than art then I lose interest in it. We can love art, we can hate art, but to blame art is beyond me. Thats why I completely disagree with the tone of the whole rant the OP wrote in the first place

Have you considered *not* selecting four times in a row a specific dialogue option to see the sex scene?

This.

That begs a question though - are we locked out of content for refusing to have sex? If so that kind of needs to change.

As someone who usually finds sex scenes in games like this very awkward, my solution would be to ask for less awkward sex scenes instead of complaining that a game meant for adults portrays characters bumping uglies. Optional portrayals at that, since we can skip or entirely avoid them.

By all means, I'm for making it less awkward, but the idea that it somehow "ruined" Baldur's Gate is silly. If an optional scene ruined the whole thing for you, you probably have a less than healthy attitide towards sex and sexualization, and you should be looking inwards to solve that.

Why so? It is natural to share the most intimate stuff with the people you are most intimate with. Why does anything need to change? Even if it was like in your example.

Because believe it or not - people don't need sex to be intimate, and locking content behind sex is not the way to go unless a really good reason for said character is presented.

Believe it or not - all people are different and their perception of intimacy as well. I still don't see how anything NEEDS to be changed based on ...anything?

Edit: also with the approach you suggest the portrayal of sex would be indeed devalued to mere porn and lose all sense of intimacy. Because if there is no content locked behind sex then it is here just for the looks of it
It is now quite the contrary with Astarion showing his scars after the night and Gale sharing his deeper thoughts on Mystra

It's not about what "needs" to be changed, it's about preferences and asking for options 😉

The view on this goes beyond the first post and the circular discussion that has started afterward.
Nuances were brought up after the OP and in other duplicate threads.

Exactly!

Edit: there would be no arguing if people were here just to share preferences though. It is clear that many of us want to promote their sexual agenda here for some reason... I've just caught myself doing the same to an extent time to get out of here...

What needs to be changed is the locking content behind sex because it shouldn't be a mandatory thing. Solves a lot of problems for both sides.

Those that don't want to see sex won't be punished for loosing story content.
Those that want sex will still see it and move on.

All that needs to be added is another dialogue.

NPC: Let's bang, ok?
1. Sure.
2. Let's cuddle by the campfire instead, okay?
3. Uhm, no, what gave you the idea I wanted you all of a sudden?


Simple solution, I think.

Or a fade to black option. You tell Astarion you want to have some fun. Fade to black. Next morning he has no shirt on and important dialogue occurs. Same with Minthara and whoever. Next morning, you wake up and she's already dressed, being an elf who doesn't sleep, and important dialogue ensues. Something to that effect.

As for vulgarity, an option to shut off vulgarity so that when a duergar is talking about Thrynn sucking Nerve, it just doesn't even give that line. Cuts it right out. No subtitles or sound. You could even still have the animations and a subtitle saying that something vulgar is said. Whatever is easiest to implement.

Then people who want to stream the game without breaking TOS can do so, and people like me don't have to listen to or read that crap that makes us not have as much fun with the game.

Or fade to black, this also works, but I am under the impression people here WANT to see the act itself for some reason or another, while others don't. Trying to find a middle ground here

I'm someone who doesn't mind overtly sexual content being in the game at all. Having said that, there are differences between sexual themes and full on graphic sex scenes. I can fully believe that someone would buy this game fully prepared for some vulgarity and even some nudity, but still be made uncomfortable by the full on sex scenes. Especially people who are expecting the game to be in line with the first two of the series. I don't thinknits a matter of being anti sex, just that people aren't on board with the shift for this particular series. I think Dragon Age, a series that has always pushed things a bit more in terms of sex and sexuality could include this sort of thing and have it feel like a more natural advancement, for example.

Right. That's why I said option. Fade to black option that players could select if they don't want to see the junk. Same with vulgarity. An option for me to censor it if I want.

Interesting idea, but not as easy as it sounds. I can't imagine Minthara agreeing to just sit with you around the campfire and break her mental guard. She is a dominant, she does not speak about herself and is always prepared for a fight. The intimate scene with her was the only reason why she let her barrier down, and the player was able to sneak through and see her backstory. But if we are speaking about other characters... maybe it is possible. But taking this approach will require content from ALL scenes to be transferred into campfire talks.

Well, there is so much violence so I do not think censorship of vulgar language is going to change anything with streams. But your situation is really interesting. I have never seen a person who tries to avoid listening to vulgar language in games or films. I, mean, among peers. Especially if it fits duergars well, as you said before.

You can get locked out of content if you say one wrong thing to an NPC. This is an asinine complaint.

Not question to me, but that you would lump BG3 with those ways of entertaining oneself is precisely where I find an issue with it. I generally wouldn't watch those things, maybe with exception of violent films if we talk stuff like Scorsese or Cohen brothers.

I think you are overdoing by putting BG3 aside those things, but I don't think that's an argument in BG3's favour. And considering the IP has history it is fair to expect to be able to play new BG3 game with a nephew - same as one would expect to watch new starwars movie or such.

WTF is your point? Disney films have implied sex. They also have violence. You can talk about death, existential crisis, rape and other stuff in a child friendly way. It is not what BG3 has but how it is presented.

You do teach other people how to art. People pay hundred of thousands of dollars to be tough how to do art. Doing art doesn't shield you from criticism. Making art doesn't mean making whatever hell you want.

Artist is someone who develop his craft to the point of being one of a kind. It's a mastery of a highest level.

An artist can have ideas that people don't comprehend but putting poorly put together cutscenes of digital puppets rubbing against each other is not that.

Making art does mean making whatever the hell you want. Maybe you're talking about commercial art, which isn't meant to be beautiful but marketable. Putting explicit sex into Baldur's Gate is a choice that directly affects its marketability, and so you're giving it a hard time for not being art.

A fade to black option doesn't seem as simple as a toggle, these scenes have actions being performed by the characters, and dialogue options connected to them, that might have an impact on more than just the choreography.

Thats what many people thinks ...
For some (unknown to me) our society have fixated that things that are animated (yup, i mean Jap. Anime) or things that are videogames ... are "meaned for kids" no matter what ESRB, or any other simmilar group that makes ratings say.

I disagree ... as respecfully as i can.
Those things are just media, and can provide any mature content ... as i said earlier, those ratings are there for a reason and if you decide to ignore them (wich you totally can) its on you, when things goes wrong.

No it doesn't. Art is communication - if you fail to communicate what you want to the audience you are aiming for then you have failed as an artist. If art wasn't taught we would still be at the stage when people would draw crude drawings on cave walls, and bang rocks together. Whatever art one enjoyed, it is build of hindered of years of progress and learning. You can set any objective you want, but we live in pre-made world, and make art to communicate with pre-defined people. You always work within confines of physics, and psychology of people you will communicate with. There isn't really such thing as making art for yourself - a piece of music is to be listened, poem or book is to be read, movie is to be watched etc. If one makes art just for his or her own entertainment for making it they are not artists. Just as a cook is not really a cook if someone fries meat because they enjoy the activity, and not to craft a meal for someone.

Being a good draftsman doesn't make you an artist. Nor does your command of grammar make you an author. Failure to communicate with an audience is not what art is about, unless you're main concern is satisfying an audience with your art.

Art comes first, a product comes second. Unless you are trying to create a product in the first place. CRPGs were not in a high demand until DOS2 popped and for me it is an indicator that Larian make games firstly out of passion. But even if we put this distinction between fine art and commercial art aside, an artist doesn't have to pay any toll to anyone. I didn't say anything about them being shielded from criticism. What I said and meant is that criticism does not obligate an artist to change technique for the sake of either "humanity" or "fashion" or "all that is holy". If its commercial art the product won't sell, but here the numbers say otherwise. If its fine art it is even more so independent from outsider's opinion. There were a lot of artists who got recognition only after their death, take Van Gogh for example.

Failing as an artist doesn't mean you are not an artist and your piece is not an art. You are twisting concepts here or there is clearly a communication barrier. Should we now say that you are not a forum member because you failed at communication for a mere moment? Or is it applicable to any of us? Of course no.

I think you're wrong about art on most levels. What your describing is a very narrow idea of art. Art absolutely can mean making whatever you want. I agree that if an artist wants to convey something and fails to do so, then they've failed in that artistic endeavor, I think thats the only way to measure something so subjective. But that doesn't make it not art, it just makes it bad art. A child scribbling on the walls is art just as much as Banksy creating finely honed graffiti. A cook frying meat for the fun of it is still a cook, they've still cooked food, and that's all being a cook is. Doing something badly doesn't mean you're not an artist or a cook, it just means you're bad at it. But philosophers have been debating the meaning of art and what makes art art for probably as long as there have been philosophers to do so. I don't think we're going to find any consensus on the subject here.

It does, actually, until there is at least one person in the world who can identify the beauty and the idea behind your work.
There are no checkboxes for qualifying individually as an artist, because art is just a way to express thoughts and ideas. A child can do that, and if another child admires the drawing then its already an art piece within this two-children system. At least this is how I see it.

EDIT: For a draftsman it is all the same. Usually 2D artist participates in a transitory phase in the general pipeline and his drafts are moved to the 3D guys, so their work isn't even a final product. But it can still be a beautiful environmental piece for example and I am sure that qualifies as an art.

EDIT 2: I love how the discussion shifted from a rant to sex and now to art

No but you have to be a good craftsman to be an artist, same as you need precise command of language to be a writer.

I wouldn't call someone incapable of creating a good art (like a baby) an artist, just the same as I wouldnt call someone who can drive a driver, just because they sat behind the wheel and crashed. Nd if an artist create a crap art (happens to the best) it is in everyone beat interest to correct them early.

Art can absolutely be taught and it can be judged. There is of course a different matter of objectives, inaccassibility or perhaps too fresh vision.

But come one - it's BG3. It mostly just compiles popular stuff from previous popular titles. It is as much of a wide appeal commercial product as one can get.

Edit. Ok scratch the.above for argument sake. Baby writes a drawing and it is an art. Fine. It doesn't mean it's a good art, or best art or even art this baby wanted to draw. Not that O would recommend belittling a child for their poor drawing skills but if you can you absolutely should teach it to express itself better and more precisely.

Perhaps Larian did include porno like sex scenes for artistic reasons, and perhaps it is the best they can do. Perhaps pornhub is all the cinematic experience they have. I think it would be harmful not to point them to a wide range of options available to them to communicate romance which would be both more effective and make it's game more agreeable with wider audience. A child might learn to say *fuck* when it is upset but it will probably do well to expand its repertoire. It's communication will end up both more precise, more compelling and people will like it better. Al of those are positive. And yeah a good old *fuck* can be handy here and there, but it also can be very very out of place.

I am curious to know if anyone has a examples of intimate scenes in a video game done right. What is your standard there?

I think your confusing being purposeless with being unskilled. You don't actually need a great deal of technical skill to be an artist, nowhere is that more true than in video games where people don't even need to learn to code, or make graphical assets to be able to put them together to create something.

Anything to bring this discussion away from some troll stirring the pot around sex in video games is a win in my book.

For games that aren't about sex, it happens rarely enough that I struggle to think of any, and the ones I can think of are all Polish CDPR. Maybe more will come to me, but considering how often video games are the subject of moral panics in America, it probably isn't going to be a big list.

I think that saying you have to create good art to be an artist isn't really the right way to go. I agree that a baby can't be an artist because babies can't really consciously create anything. At most they're just moving their arms around and the results are just a byproduct of that. But I do think once they're able to consciously have ideas and try to express them through various mediums and they do so, they are creating art. The question of when someone goes from being 'a person who makes art' to 'an artist' is a blurry line, but I don't think the quality of the art is a deciding factor. I think that your example of 'someone who can drive' and 'a driver' is honestly worse because at least being an artist implies some kind of intentional commitment. Once you have a driver's license, you're a driver. Hell, that's probablt asking a bit extra. You're a driver once you're actually able to drive.

Yes, art can be taught and judged, but those aren't requirements. An artist can consistently put out poor quality work and that doesn't mean they're not an artist. It just means they're a bad artist. Because there are probably thousands of people out there who tried to make their living as an artist and couldn't because their work wasn't good enough. They're still artists, even if people don't like their art.

As for complaining about BG3 being a wide appeal commercial product, that doesn't make it any less art. Shakespear was a wide appeal commercial product. His shows plays were considered peasant entertainment. Plays in general were considered that in his time. They were probably seen as low brow as video games are now. His plays are full of sex and violence and puns meant to appeal to as many people as possible to make money. Is BG3 shakespear? No, it's not. But it's still art. The question is if it's good art or not.

Um, I don't know about anyone else but if I'm masturbating then my door is closed and locked so this sort of thing doesn't happen. Not sure why those of you that don't lock the door don't actually lock the door? As for doing it with the game? Well again I don't know about others but I do seriously play games a ton more than I masturbate. If you're masturbating more than gaming then you're either not gaming much or you have a serious problem. Not meaning that as an attack on anyone that masturbates a lot but it is an actual problem. Also as far as masturbating and gaming goes, the masturbating is guaranteed to be happening when you are doing it. The sex appearing on the screen when you're gaming isn't.


I find it funny that some of you say things like "If you don't lt skip through it" yet you don't "skip" my post. It's ok for you to complain about my complaint but I can't do the actual complaint itself? Lol. For the record, the only problem I have about all of you complaining about my complaint is that it seems hypocritical that you can complain but I can't. Kinda funny really. And for those of you saying "these sort of posts are everywhere" I don't understand why it's totally ok to post millions of positive posts but when someone posts a negative one it's so tragically wrong. Don't like my post? Leave it alone and don't read it. You know like some of you keep telling me "Skip it". Lol.
I'll restate my words again, I don't care if you put sex in a game, I just feel it doesn't belong in Baldur's Gate. Why? I guess because I played the first 2 without it and now in the sequal it just seems really wrong and highly unnescesary to me. Honestly I don't see why it's even needed in any game to begin with but if you want it fine. It's a game people. We have porn and we have games. Why do we need to combine them? Lol.

For reference, Mass Effect had better shot sex scenes and writing 10 years ago.

Baldur's Gate 3 has sex scene shots motivated only by showing off certain very specific positions during an act. Underlining the actual positions take the scenes much closer to porn, and comedy since they are so poorly animated.

Well, Mass Effect, as well as Dragon age always use short scenes, which are linked together in a sequence. Hard to say if they were better. This was a simpler approach, but it is not really immersive and pulls out of the story, while definitely being easier to animate. And writing of romances did not look like a good part of Mass Effect for me. It was just a reward for a good relationship with a companion at the end of the story. It was lacking development (which is also lacking in bg3, but we have only the first act). Honestly, I can not remember a game where the development of a romance just does not end after the official start of a relationship.

I'd say that the mass effect scenes fit the overall tone of the game. I certainly didn't feel pulled out of the story. I think the linked sequence approach focused more on the intimacy of of the characters, rather than the sex itself. I would say that it's better since it leaves more to the imagination. The point of a sex scene, like any scene in a story, is to convey information to move the story forward in some way. They're meant to convey the advancement of the individuals involved. The problem in a roleplaying game is that we the players control one of the characters, which means that in a sex scene, there will inevitably be a lot of players who don't mind sex scenes in principle but will look at what eventually ends up in Baldur's Gate 3 and say 'that's not my character.' I think the explicit sex scenes in the Witcher work because Geralt is fundamentally a settled character. He can develop in some different directions but he's basically the same person in everyone's game. Our Tavs and Shepards can be wildly different, down to being different species in the former's case. Our Tavs can be nobles, entertainers, wizards and barbarians. Yet unless Larian is willing to get quite granular in a way that might not even be to the benefit of the sex scene overall, then they potentially can all have sex in the same way. So for a large section of the audience, regardless of the quality of the animation, those sex scenes will effectively take our character out of our control and have us just watch our character not really being our character for a while.

Fair enough, and I concede, especially to @Grey Ghost.

Mass Effect1 was decent. As far as graphic sex scenes go I thought Witcher3 did well, with well established relationships which bled into the sex scenes. Those had narrative to them, and did well to established intimacy between two characters rather then nudity for the sake of the player (thought there is definitely that as well).

A good example where intimate scene got better through removal of the sex scene was Mafia1 => Mafia: Definitive Edition.

D:OS2 Red Prince/Princess

Edit. Ah, Saints Row4. For people with “you are fine with violence in BG3 but not with sex” this is closer to what sex scenes in BG3 should be if they wanted to match the silly combat. That’s what one calls: Tonally consistant.

Can we please stop talking about other games? They have no point in this discussion. This discussion is about Baldur's Gate. The sex in other games is irrelivant. Start a new topic and discuss them there please.

I'll take it.

D:OS2 's scene's were text only right? Text only was a good way of going.

The only Mass Effect scene I think was explicit was maybe Andromeda. It has been a while, I remember the scene in Andromeda being a bit of a tonal shift I wasn't prepared for, but that was probably because by that time I was already just going through the motions with that game.

Another link for people who don't think this topic has come up time and again Adult content in BG3 Andromeda jogged it from my memory

Well, there isn’t much to be discussed in terms of romance and sex when it comes to Baldur’s Gate. I can’t recall anything of that sort, but it’s been a while since I played it.

[actually that’s a lie. I am playing it right now for a bit on my iPAD]

And that is your answer ...
Lock the door so it dont happen. And you no longer need to wonder what are you supposed to say to her. :P

I'm an artist, an artist is under no requirement to do anything. They teach people artistic techniques, and theories, the artists accepts, rejects or creates new techniques or theories as they see fit.

You are allowed to critique art, you can not like art. But the artist isnt required to accept, believe, or value your opinion.


As far as the topic of the game, and what you view as uneccesarry or poorly executed, its a cut scene you can skip. If the mere existence of it within the game spoils the game for you, thats fair, but don't expect everyone else to share your perspective.

you might be shocked, but puppets rubbing against each other is art, Art also doesnt need to be sophisticated, or adult. Its fine not to like it, but art is not defined by your subjective feelings about it.

Quoting this to bring it to the fore again; poor choreography and porny scene direction aside, lack of pacing and bland expression and action aside... In a game where we are playing our own character, whose personality we decide on, if we have intimate scenes that are actually shown, we must have some leverage over how those scenes play out; some choices we can make to tell the game what our character is like or wants in this deeply personal moment - this really matters, for the scene to fly, and land, properly, even if we assume the other elements are all improved. In D:OS2, these scenes were conducted in prose, and we got to decide what out character wanted, and how how they wanted their personal encounter to play out; your character could tell your partner what they needed, and the player could tell the game how their character wanted to act, and while it was only a small impact on the prose that came out of it, it was impactful all the same, and it enhanced character immersion, rather than detracting from it.

Something similar here would be ideal - a way to at least partially indicate what sort of a scene our character would pursue. If we don't have that, and our character has a pre-scripted sexual encounter that runs like clockwork and does things that our character might not want or might not be into, etc., that's destructive for immersion and a time where character immersion should be a priority.

The problem is, you want everyone to play the game without the option, and they want you to use the option to skip things. For a person who doesnt share your distaste, this is the equivalent of someone asking to remove a character creation face from the game because you don't like their appearance. You basically want to remove something you don't have to engage with, simply because you don't like it.

BG 1 and 2 were 20 years ago, created by totally different people, with a different demographic, goals, and crpg culture, There is no reason to expect the same thing.

As far as it being porn, people aren't necessarily wanting these things in the game for the same reason. For some this is the narrative fulfillment of a relationship/plotline. Its in there for the same reason other scenes are. Because its a visual medium that shows you a story.

You ask why? but for many the question is why not? Basically many people don't share your same perspective on this type of content in games.

that isn't to say you are the only one, some people in this thread agree with you, but its not the self evident truth you present it as. Its a subjective thing, so the devs can weigh your opinion, others opinions, their own, and decide how they want to handle it, but you aren't intrinsicly right

Yes, I thought about it and this is indeed the big reason why it would feels so awkward to me : the dissonance between how I see my character and how those scenes are depicted (based on the one scene with Minthara at least). Well put, you two!

For good mesure (because some of the answers feel weirdly disconnected) :

And here I thought you could simply choose to go to bed alone...yet we have 9 pages of...

Because some would like romance without sex scenes.

See, to me, sex is intimate between me and my wife. I don't want to share it with others nor others to share theirs with me. It just isn't right to me to watch others having sex, and I don't enjoy it. But, I'd like my characters to be able to be romantic with companions I feel they would get romantic with.

But I have to reject those companions in order to skip sex scenes. It's a bummer. I just wish they gave us the OPTION to not have to do this.


Oh come on. There is a HUGE difference between having an option to turn off sex scenes and vulgarity and removing a face I don't like from Character Creation. HUGE difference.

This looks like one of the most productive discussions of this topic yet, so I would advise not to disdain it. People discuss art in general, immersion, and character development. So I was surprised by how constructive and reasonable people can be sometimes, especially in such controversial themes. So, welcome)

Can this please be the last words in this absolute trainwreck of a thread?

My niece actually enjoys watching me or her dad play games from time to time. The fact that this game mostly doesn't have sex is the reason I leave my door open. That and so my cat has run of the apartment. Lol. So your answer is to just lock my door all the time because I spend, o much time playing (literally all day long)? Actually even all night as well sometimes.

The answer is always "inconveneice yourself" instead of just not wasting time and money with sensless pointless money wasting. In this case the pointless programming of someone wet dreams.
As for why I say it doesn't belong, I already said it but ok I will again, simply because the first 2 games didn't have it and I see Baldur's Gate as a non-sex needed game. That's it. Simple as that. That is just my opinion. Lots of you obviously feel diferently. That's your opinion and I'm ok with that. I seriously don't see why most of you have such a problem with me having my own opinion. I've said it, I think 3 other times now maybe only 2, I am fine with sex in other games. I don't see an actual point in cartoon porn at all but I realize that some people enjoy it. Fine. Ok. I simply feel it has no place in Baldur's Gate. Romance? Ok I can understand that. The sex? I seriously see no point. As for the "skip it and don't worry about it. You don't miss anything"? Kinda true. This particular part you actually do have to worry about it. Yes you can kinda skip it. But you do have to go through it with the dialog. Because you're dealing with a drow. A female drow. Everyone probably knows by now that if you don't deal with female drow properly they get very pissed off and then evil things are certain to happen. So if you want to find out what can happen if you go along with her so she do0esn't get to pissy, you have to click certain options that are indeed sexual in the dialog options. Your simple "skip it" is only partially an answer.

Which are actually some of the same devs that wanted to put more lgbt content in BG, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, and Kotor, but couldn't cuz they'd get greater push back as these romance scenes are getting.

I'll never get used to people going "gore, blood, guts, slavery, torture, are all ok and I'm ok with my child playing these video games and have fun" but oh NO sex. You let your niece watch your character pull out a living brain and kill someone? Replace your argument with violence.

"You ruined my role-playing game with violence. It's my PERSONAL OPINION that there should be no extreme gore like pulling out a brain from a human skull because Baldur's gate never did that."

I understand you don't want to experience the sex part of this game....so don't. You have every right to not want it and not everyone is comfortable with sex on the same level as gore, violence, etc.

But you went on a specific path, made specific choices to reach this specific scene, and said "no not for me and it's ruining my game"

Make a different choice. Shadowheart as a cute little date scene instead or don't romance anyone. Those choices are really satisfying. Having that sex scene with Minthara and making the right choices to get her to soften up was actually really satisfying. You also have choice in being the dom or the sub in that scene depending on some rolls so more roleplaying there.

Personally I think Larian will implement adult content filter. Hopefully

What you describe is free will, and non-artists are also blessed with it. No one is required to take anyones feedback, especially mine.

So things I have learned so far:
1) BG3 is art
2) sex scenes in BG3 are art
3) Larian is an artist and is free to do whatever they see fit

But

4) art can be shit
5) artist can make bad art/be a bad artist

As Larian’s legal or moral rights to shaping BG3 as they see fit was never in question, as far as as can tell, BG3 status as art, and Larian status as artist is irrelevant.

And more importantly to me returning to the point that amused me so much to spawn this whole tangent:

If art can be shit and artist incompetent, that means making art is a skill and therefore it can be taught. Feedback can be wrong or it can be right. Decisions Larian made can be right or wrong. I am probably not a right person to teach anything, but that doesn’t mean that Larian couldn’t learn a few things. Hey they just learned, in spite of some naysayers on this forum, that reaction pop ups are good! Oh, poor artists, sacrificing their vision of the game for the sake of it being just a little bit better then before!

I don't play D&D with people reduce every social interaction to "can i fuck it" and that's the energy that BG3 has. If your apex of intimacy is "sex" you've got a lot of maturing to do.

BG1/2 are art because their creators took an active approach to translating one medium to another, at PHD level investigations of translating the systems of D&D in to an interactive computer game. They broke boundaries, changed the way games were made, and stand the test of time in their affective narrative delivery, making them literal artistic classics.

BG3 does none of this. It's DOS2 with a Fearun skin. It pushes no boundaries except people's patience. The problem isn't with RTWP or Turn Based Combat, or homebrew rules or not ... the problem with BG3 is the shallowness of its expression. BG3 employs meme level representations of the characters and themes of the previous games, and for some reason, that's what Larian fans want, so that's what we're getting.

Ok. Sorry. I would love some censor options, but this is too much, Man. The sex scenes are optional. They are not in your face. They don't just pop up like in some games. You have to literally agree to go to bed with someone to trigger them. If you are agreeing to sleep with Lae'zel and your niece walks in because you purposely chose to sleep with her, and your niece sees naughty bits, that's on you.

The most naughty creatures in the game that just spring up on you are Harpies. They are only half naked, and you mostly don't see them up close. The duergar are vulgar, but you can turn your volume down and turn off subtitles if your niece is in the area.

Again, I want censor options so we don't have to do this kind of stuff, but your arguments are a bit argumentative and unreasonable, imo. I don't know how else to say it.

To me, your argument is like a man going to a strip club and taking his niece with him and then getting mad because she is seeing poll dancing. You have to purposely choose to see naughty bits to see them in BG3. It is not by accident. If it was, I'd be right there with you in Larian's face saying "Please no. I won't be able to play this game again in good conscience."

The most argument we have is story elements mingled with naughty scenes and no non-sex romance unless it's with SH. That's about it.

A bit extreme. There are five characters thus far that you can have sex with. SH is non sexual. So Lae'zel, Gale, Wyll, Astarion and Minthara. Hardly a "can you _##$ it" situation. Yes, the romance is abrupt and shallow, but it's hardly just a sex fest game with this sex scenes stuff being the highlight of the game.

Githyanki lay eggs - they don't give birth live like most mammals. Which means Githyanki have a Cloaca. A Cloaca is an orifice which is used by a bird or lizard for defecation, sex and egg laying.

So I'd pass on that Githyanki sex...lol...ewwwwwwwwww

They also have tits, so maybe it isn't so straightforward.

This reminds me of all the conversations I had in grade school about what possible biological niches Pokemon could occupy exactly.

Or maybe Lae'zel is the world's sexiest platypus

I'm all for adult content filter or fading to the black or whatever as long as I don't have to witness the cringy and awkward pixel sex. I'd love to romance the companions and have a developing romantic relationship just without the explicit game sex. So I would really appreciate some sort of option to fast forward the scene to the morning after, so to speak.

Not sure i shall laugh or cry, why is it that leavng a trail of dead people, hacked up by weapons, burned to crisp by spells, is perfectly alright, and not controversial at all... but for some reason if nudity or sex is shown, its some horrific porn festival that should be banished and we should all be a shamed couse its perfectly a natural things and its part of the human thing to exist...

I might be a pagan skandinavian, but im just flabber gasted, isnt murder and killing worse then, something thats actually well natural ?... perspectives i guess

Well, if that is your concern maybe you should start a new thread asking for a gore/violence filter. Nobody is stopping you from doing so.

To be fair, i dont think either should be filtered, its a adult game, and such it has violence and sexual content, though from my personal preference, i see the violence as something more of a social issue then something natural as sexual content... i argue, a vast majority of humans will have sex in their life, and see nude things... but how many of us do actually kill multiple beings ?... Id even say most go entire lives and dont kill beings...

That being said, im not generally against filters for either for those that want that, but everything larian adds in this way, significantly adds more production time... imagine going through every scene, every text, every voice file, to "filter it"...

or you know, we can just accept its a game that have violence and sexual related stuff, like its said on the label...

WOW! The disrespect centered around this topic does not surprise me. It is truly the age of the militant asshole.

This is to Larian...One what page of the Player's handbook is the dice roll chart for sex positions?


You took the responsibility to deliver a sequel not only to a series, but a decades long franchise. The number one reason that any one has issue with your company is because you failed to consider what lifetime fans wanted out of the game. You have spit in their face...period.

The topics range from the RAW...to you pick (list is too long).


So I researched a few minutes and came up with about 7% of BG 1 and 2 players were elementary to adolescent...hear are a few.

I'm 14 and I play BG since I was 6 or something like that so it was my first real game that I played. And It's still my favourite BTW I'm from Poland

18. Been playing Baldur's Gate since I was like 5. Hahah

23. Been playing since it came out, so that would make me 8 or 9 at start.
I'm quite suprised that so many central Europeans know of the game. I didn't even think most Americans knew it anymore, especially in Massachusetts.

I was around 12 when BG came out.

hmm i was in my teens when it came out, i still have the copies too.:)


So rated M means what? We decided that the game won't be for this audience anymore...and like some point out their is the "whatchya doing Dad / Mom" group.

Its not even good sex...its completely laughable how my character has been hit on.

Yes I always cut it short...but it was annoying and really gave me the impression that your team is comprised of middle aged people who never grew up.

I lost tons of respect for your decision making skills across the board...

....but the lack of consideration for what decades old fans might actually like to see in your game is my number 1 reason.


Anyway, I was looking forward to playing the game, but if you want to reach out to me and offer a refund I would take it in a heartbeat.

Not mad...disgusted!

100%.
What I have been trying to say.
Nobody is complaining about having sex scenes in a mature video game.
Its the awful "teenage" and "immature" way it has been done.
How ironic this is. <<Mature>> sex scenes suited for an immature audience...

If you can't do it right visually , SCRAPE it. Or use good ol TEXT. Imagination does wonders.

Larian, your sex scenes are AWFUL. Not your forte so either give it up, or get more mature writers.

Not entirely ...
My answer would be "then go f*** yourself" to be quite honest.

You have exactly what you need ... several such things actualy ... yet you "simply refuse" to use any of them ...
That is your decision, and i totally respect (to some extent) that you should have option to make your own mistakes ...

But i must admit this topic is quite interesting in its own twisted way ... even tho i was falsely acused countless times of the same, i would use this as perfect description of that what people around here call "Argue for the sake of arguing" ... you are not looking for answers, you dont try to figure anything out, just repeat how everything is wrong, bad, and should be changed bcs you simply demand it ...
And yet, nobody who falsely acused me in the past made the same acusation here.
Its a bit confusing. O_o

Excuse me, but what is an example of a "mature" and "adult" way in which it can be done? Yes, probably everyone agrees that these scenes are done poorly choreographically and are not well animated, but how is it connected with teenagers and immaturity? Are you complaining about the lack of choices and dissonance between you and your character?

It's like this. Sex is, in the minds of many, myself included, meant to be intimate and private and not on display for the world to see. So people like me don't enjoy shows and movies and games that display such things. It's inappropriate.

Also, from a moral standpoint, watching sex on screen arouses unhealthy sexual desires in many; a lot moreso than violence. Sex is like a drug to a lot of people, and there are individuals who cannot control their sexual appetites. Thus, displaying sex on screens wets their appetites and with no healthy way to satisfy it, they go out and hurt people.

Now, please note:. I am just explaining why some have more problems with sex than violence. Well, aside from religious beliefs stating that it is a sin to display sex in such a way.

But then, many also have religious issues with violence in games too. I know a LOT of people who would NEVER play BG3 and would consider anyone who does a fallen sinner who deserves Hell just for playing this game. If they knew I was playing it, they'd condemn me for sure... Even though there is therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Yet many Christians are the first to condemn others even though Jesus taught that we should not judge or condemn.

But anyway. That's just part of why this is an issue. Thought I'd explain since so many seemed to be mystified by it.

Please do point out where I have demanded a single thing. I have always, continually, stated that it is my own personal opinion and that I accept that others have their own. I have never "demanded" a damn thing. "go f**** yourself"? Seriously? Lol. Wow. How immature. Also, how exactly am I not "trying to figure anything out"? Oh wait, that must be an example right there? I'm not trying to figure out wtf you're trying to say I'm not trying to figure out? Lol. You sir/ma'am continue to confuse and bewilder me with just about every post. Always saying I am doing things that I clearly am not. I truely don't understand you. Does anyone else understand this person? Please feel free to explain him/her to me. I do seriously desire to understand everyone. Honestly. This is not me trying to be a smart ass or anything.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/pearl-clutching

I hope the mods close this pointless thread.

What is the goal of these sex scenes in BG3? What does Larian want to achieve that fading to black wouldn't? And is it worth the time/effort/money they're spending making these scenes, that could otherwise be put into other aspects of the game?

+1
+1

Guess I am childish, getting propositioned by a gay vampire made me laugh out loud....

Hes not gay ...
He is willing to shag anything.

That is true for you and the ones like you... and thats the root of the problem im trying to enlighten, DnD. Roleplaying, Larping, is enactment of something thats fantasy, to be something that isnt... some of us want to do, be things we cant do IRL, and it dosent matter if its violence or romance, as im saying what right for you, isnt for me, and vice versa... None of this is real, its make belief a game, let it be a game, let it be fantasty, dont try to make it real to force your sexual norms on others...

Larian is trying to tell a story in 3d, that has violence and sexual content, and minf you, you can go back to BG1 and BG2 these thins has allways been part of their games, yes it was simpler and the grafics was pixely both for the combat and much more ofthe story romance was spelled and read rather then seen...

I repect you for your values, its perfectly alright, but please allow my more liberal/pagan views, and allow Larian to tell that fantasy of heroines and villians, to me a story without romance wouldent be a BG game, now if your story dont want romance, how about dont do it ?...

To turn the reasoning, while i have no problem with the romance or most of the violence, im sorta disturbed by some of the more "evil" options in the game, but it isnt real and a story have good and evil, im kinda disturbed that some vant to let everyone into a place and just slougther the people there... so, i dont do it... but while i personaly think this is awfull and not my story, hey, it might be a thrill for others... it isnt real, its just make belief, isnt that why we read books, see movies and play video games ? <3

This is your opinion and I totally accept it but if you have such a serious problem with it why are you even here? Why don't you just "skip it" like people enjoy telling us to do with the sex sceens themselves? Seriously, you're a hypocrite. You can complain about us complaining but we can't actually do the complaining to begin with? wtf? lol

I think everyone is pansexual in this game. During the weave conjuring interaction with Gale that went down to a gay romance by the end of it and I noped out. Astarion and Minthara swing both ways as well. It's an issue in a couple games, Dragon Age Inquisition is the other on that comes to immediate mind. The result if you don't pay attention is you're suddenly hitting on everyone and anything. As for the sex scene, I can''t say I'm bothered by it. Feel like folks here would have a heart attack if they went near the Fallout/Skyrim Nexus mods pages.

Also is the critique that there's sex scenes in the game...or that they could be better animated?

At this point I think every single opinion has been posted. There are people who don't want sex scenes period, people who want an option to disable them, people who want a fade to black, people who want text based scenes, people who want "less awkward" scenes, people who judge them "childish", people who want to play BG3 with minors (for some reason), people who don't want content to be gated behind them, people who are ok with them, people who simp for Astarion...
As expected, sex is controversial.

Good point, so they lay eggs but breastfeed their young when born. How confusing. Although I don't get why a Githyanki would want to mate with any other species. Totally incompatible.

If you try to initiate sex and you start taking off your clothes, La'zael should look down and go "Kinchaw, what in the hells is that?" Then "You do not appear to have the correct equipment for this."

Anyway, I think Larian has - based on implementation - decided that sex is largely irrelevant. Anybody can bang anybody. I don't blame them really. It's not the focus of the game for me, and I don't consider cartoon-sex some kind of game-breaking war-crime.

This was discussed several times allready and i believe the result was something like:
There is no word for out followers sexuality, since they are completely willing to sleep with even different species ... something that have usualy suffix -philia, rather than -sexuality, and its concidered entirely wrong in our society.

If this is opened for debate, my vote goes for option B.

flippant and immature approach to sexuality, intimacy, and complex adult relationships.

the more you defend this as "working as intended" the more disgusted I become.

nothing but masturbatory softccore for people so starved for actual intimacy they'll justify this as healthy.

I'll never not find it funny how you can have movies, games and stories of people just getting absolutely obliterated or dying in horrific ways be totally fine but nudity and sex summon the end of days.

My own personal argument is that there are sex sceens in the game period. Yes also that they are animated but even if they were real actual people/porn I'd definitely still complain because it's in this game.

I'd say thats 1 of many problems here.

That it exists would be the first though.

Romance existed in the since the dawn of BG1, and the cringe some of you talk of been part of these games for as long as they existed, be it in the story, writing, or even pixely bar wenches that "cringely" wiggly their tushies... iwe been watvhing Cohhcarnage replay BG1 and BG2, and while it was simpler back then, as the grafics evolve it will evolve across the board... The bar wench or courtesan will still be in the games, and why you ask, well its part of the make belief, the story, any book, and movie have abit of romance in it...

And Larian sets a stage, then its up to you or me, wha we do with that stage, ifyou dont like romance, then dont do it, if you like me, dont like evil, then dont persue the darker paths... take game of thrones, it has all sides of a world, it has the gore, and it has the nudity, it has villians and heroes, romance just like any alive universe or world, just like a game should be, its a story a ficional non real imagination... do you think people watch these shows to get entertained or for some porn experience ?...

So my question to you, so you have issues with romance, id say alot more people have issues with other social issues of life, but that is life, and any good story need elements of everything, it needs villians, it needs heros, it needs the dark and shady, and it needs heroism and it needs Romance, why ?, couse its life...

If i wanted to a shooter game, id go play that, when i play a Larian game, i want a world to emerse myself into, and to my knowledge that includes romance... so my tip to you, when you get asked to share a bottle, an your not into that kind of things, its kinda obvious where the story is taking you, dont like that, well, dont do it... your story, your choise !

PS lean back and go back the years, and remember those boob armours, or female armours that more or less were less covering then my minimal summer bikinis... so, yea, there was a time when you had to wear those things, i thought those were cringe, couse to me they were not a armour, but more a cringely aspect that more or less made no sense... it was even more hillarious, that the same plate +3, had diffrent look if it were a female or male that wore it ;P... it was kinda anoying, but hey people cosplay, people dress up, i prefer a real looking armour, but that dosent make me want to remove "romance"... these things has allways existed in this genere, as it has in any movie or book...

I love how some of you keep saying "romance" but the complaint is about the sex not romance. Yes I know sex CAN be a part of romance. But the argument I have is that this is a continuation of a non-sexual game. Yes the others had romance. But not sex. I think it should have stayed that way. Just because it has romance doesn't mean it has to include pointless sex. This is a game. I just wish they had left it a "game" and not added the porn.

But what's your opinion on eldritch blasting goblin children?

people will say the same about darker paths or gore... its a game, a story about real life, any good story will have life like elements in it... lets do as you say, Larian removes everything thats offensive or can be percived as troubling, so... what should that be ?, evil ?, should they alow people to lie, cheat, steal, where do you draw the line, how far are you willing to chastice the imagination of a story, or do we allow the story to have uncomfterble ellements, just like most books, moives, have ?... couse if you go down the path of chastasing things based on certain people and their beliefs, we could bascially just end up with a combat simulator... couse the story cant have troubling elements, couse people cant deal with fiction, be it romance(sex) or gore, or evil etc...

Then as for how things eolve as the tech advances, things are getting grafical, but that goes across the line, everything is getting more grafic, where the writing and sounds carried most of the very basic pixels back in the day, there were still avatar pictures that in many cases were more or less sexualiced, boob, bikini armour ?... and as for combat, when you looked at two people fighting as piexels, well not very grafic, compare that with how heads or limbs are chopped off, how the grafic are changed to hurt and wounded, and people get roasted to crisps as smoldering corpses... all these things is more or less mature for a reason... this sort of is the same reasoning goverments in Iran try to enforce on wimen, the have to carry hijab, couse some males cant control them self... well thats not my problem, its a game, a story its not real, and grafics evolve and get more lifelike, that dosent change that it still not real... it just helps to emerse things like any grafic improvment, and yea i can think a head chopped of can feel uncomfterble, but thats part of something lifelike ?

Its a book, movie, game, its fiction to be emersed in, and its labaled ?

Dude, people keep criticizing you and bothering you not exactly because of what you say, but how you say it. You could just say "Yeah, I'm just not into this", instead you said about your niece, which can enter your room when you play Witcher or watch Game of Thrones also. You keep using an aggressive manner of dialog when I think no one can understand what is the exact problem. Nudity is ok, violence is ok, and sex is "porn" for you, which you keep saying. Of course people will try to share their opinion if they think that sex is not "pointless". And it is only one example. Usually, your posts have much more sentences that prompt to argue with you.

Hi All! So there are eleven pages of this back and forth so I don't know if someone else brought this up or not but things like sex and gore can and have in other games been given an on/off/level choice in options and because a wide variety of ages are going to play this game I can totally support something like that being implemented. Personally I have no issues with any of those things in the games I play, I'm in my 50's and I know the difference between a game and real life and my only comments on it are that some games do it better than others and I wish they all did them well. I can, however, understand why some people may not like like sex in a video game, parents may not want their younger kids to see it yet and D&D is a game played by kids as well as adults. I also know a couple of people who do find sex in video games a bit weird and would rather skip it, to each their own.

So why not just solve the problem, if you believe there is one, by adding an on/off/level choice for sex and gore in the options and Bob's yur Uncle.

Edit: fixed some spelling

💛

(This was brought up, but in the midst of all this chaos, I enjoyed seeing your response ^^)

To be honest, I can not remember a non-fully isometric game that has an on/off switch for gore. Owlcat's games yes, but there it is easy to implement. In BG3 with its cinematic shots, you will need a tremendous amount of work, changing not only effects in combat but also cinematics.

As stated (and showed) before ... there are hints that something close is allready working on:

To both of you, reply on reply sorta...

Its a idea, and not a bad one, but, and this is the big but... as games get more advanced with all cutscenes, and all grafics... the amount of voice lines, text lines and cutscenes in 3d would have to be gone through, and in many cased changed, meaning there need to be duplicable versions, depending of PG or Mature, couse, just removing a cutscene, might couse some very strange story line paradoxes... and when you start to phantom the amount of work this piles up to, its alot of extra work for Larian... and then there is the levels of hell and what to alow, is the scene with the loviatar priest oki, its bascially a pain and pleasure scene, should that be allowed ?... why i understand some people discomfort with these things, i personally think its better people actually deal with discomfort and learn to handle, but that is my personal view... i also dont think Larian have the time to do this, if we want the game in august...

I am pretty sure they are what is described as playersexual. They are always interested in romancing the player character regardless of their race or gender.

The data files with the leaf, along with the complete model anatomy that's been found make me think that the final situation is planned by Larian to look like this:

Settings:
Intimate Scenes: [Full/Fade/Off]
Streaming Mode: [On/Off]

Meaning, that there will be a jump cut option that completely avoids all three elements of the intimate scenes (the preamble, the scene and the morning after), and assumes default choices for the inter-character choices you make within them. Then there will be an option that plays the preamble and the morning after scenes, but does a black-fade cut over the central intimate scene itself (in some cases this still involves naked breasts, but shows no activity). Finally an option to play the full sequence as intended, but, if your twitch integration or streaming mode is turned on, there will be intimate censoring over the necessary elements of those scenes.

((On the subject of the complete model anatomy found in the files, I was disappointed to find that the penises located are all sleepy and flaccid - it's curious though, because if they were there to be used for sex scenes in particular, and for the complete intimate scene body models, then they'd really need to be erect, one would think...))

That would be lovely!

If they indeed implement that (and I really hope so), I hope that "preamble" will still include things like
because it's still technically before sex.

But hey, maybe they'll surprise me with the actual scene and I won't need the "fade" option on following playthroughs 🙂 (there're still the "might break characters/immersion by how it's depicted" issue, we'll see).

Still, again, those settings would be awesome 💜!

(About the current model, I would assume it's the one that might be displayed when removing armor under certain settings or for certain shots during the sex scene but they haven't implement "erected penis" yet? I'm completely speculating of course.)

And what is your point? Someone said BG is not a place for sex scenes. I said sex was always part of BG and you go on a rant about Disney movies? Presenting things to children? WTF indeed.

If you don’t see a difference between this and [choose your pornhub video of choice] then I don’t think I have a time or capability to explain it to you.

Personally, I wouldn’t say that sex scenes have no place in BG3 - such description can mean many things (Prince of Persia: Sand of Times had an appropriate sexscene for a game it was) but if we use “sex scenes” as a term for the cutscene that plays during “romance” with M. in-between agreeing to sleep with her, and morning after, I don’t think it is an outrageous claim to make, even if a poorly worded one.

I'm going to put it like this:

I'm a Christian. Most know that, but in case you didn't, there you go.

Growing up, there was TONS of entertainment I could enjoy that didn't include sex and vulgarity and tons of gore. As the years have progressed, a schism has occurred. Either entertainment is lame and low quality and has no sex or vulgarity, or it has good story and is well done but I have to endure sex and vulgarity and gore. It is hard to find anything that I don't have to compromise on. Heck. Even kid shows and movies and games are riddled with adult content nowadays. It's VERY frustrating trying to find anything that I can enjoy - a good, just fun, adventure and drama.

BG1 and 2 and most RPGs back then we're games everyone could play without having to worry about potentially seeing such things. So, it is not a huge leap to expect that people might want the same thing for BG3 - at least the option to have a good, fun adventure that isn't sucky, cringey and lame and that doesn't have explicit sex and vulgarity.

That said, I don't necessarily expect them to change things. However, it's a hope that I and obviously others have that we might be able to FULLY enjoy BG3 without such content - enjoying the ability to romance without full on naked characters having sex on screen and the vile language of the duergar. To at least have the option would be SO nice and would increase my respect for Larian.

I'm going to put it like this:

I'm an atheist. Most know that, but in case you didn't, there you go.

I think people misremember past content based on anecdotal evidence. If anything children's entertainment has become much more sanitized, less thoughtful, and more frenetic**. Ren and Stimpy, and Scooby Doo were some OG stuff that dealt with adult subject matter and super sketchy people. Most of the more modern cartoons deal in innuendo that is aimed at adults but will fly right over kids heads but they draw from a "safe" list of well tested tropes that define all the characters traits. Also really well made films are about Art, which can be sometimes brutal or vulgar as it imitates life - which is also brutal and vulgar. When Art is built around ideologies of any kind, or censorship of any kind it fails. Human beings act in all kinds of disappointing ways, and frankly I think its better to make kids aware of that early, rather than late. Our job is to prepare them for the world, not shelter them from its harsh truths and thrust them unprepared into a world that will devour them.

BG1 and Bg2 dealt with all kinds of adult content. There was a literal whorehouse in Bg2 - The Pleasure Tent - and the scantily clad girls had all kinds of interesting things to say. There were adult situations aplenty - such as torture and sexual assault.

That said, I expect Larian will fine tune things as time goes on, and they do take into account player feedback. I find it difficult to fathom why people get so worked up about things that don't materially effect them. When I say that I mean - "imagien you had to walk into a court of law and explain how X harmed you - would you have a case or be laughed at?"

**I am only counting children's cartoons, not adult cartoons like Family Guy and South Park. If your kids are watching stuff like that - that's on you bro - they don't air that stuff on Sunday mornings for a reason.

This is how the modern world works. Being offended for at any occasion is a weapon used for validation, discrimination and even as a pass time. We truly live in a society.

GM4Him is complaining about the choice to show it explicitly with those graphics, there's a lot going on the original games that would become much more explicit if made with the graphics of Baldur's Gate 3. There's a brothel in Baldur's Gate as well, but the way its presented to us will have nothing to do with what is and isn't graphically possible, it's about what is understood to be the audience of this game, adults who want the medium to be treated with the same respect as the rise in 'prestige television'.
Cartoons are a good example of censorship in media (even if Ren and Stimpy isn't a kid's show), because you can easily compare its development between different cultures.

I think maybe GM4Him is looking at past eras of media with rose-tinted glasses, but having sex scenes added to the game does move it out of the reach of a lot of the people who were likely to have played the first games (myself included)

I still haven't seen an argument in favour of these scenes other than "b-but they're mature!"

"i can't understand how people are..."

this is a closed beta forum for a game that isn't yet released where feedback is ACTIVELY REQUESTED by the developers.

If you don't like people sharing opinions that differ from yours, you might want to rethink your approach to "community".

And, quite frankly, the selfishness inside the "i can't understand how people" attitude is emblematic of a kind of aggressively immature toxicity and gatekeeping that has produced, as GM4 has pointed out, a litany of fiction that is either a) completely diluted and lame, or b) infused with sex and violence.

One can only surmise that the lack of dramatic representation without explicit representations of things indicates a lack of quality writing and narrative capacity for implication.

.... "I" can't understand how people REQUIRE explicit depictions in order to enjoy fiction or feel mature. I think there is something broken and unhealthy about the insistence on explicit depictions as a representation of "maturity".

I think you are building a nice strawman there. I have seen plenty of arguments for explicit scenes in this thread, and no one "REQUIRE" explicit depictions in order to enjoy fiction or feel mature here.

it's almost as if my use of the "i can't understand" at the end there was a demonstration of how that approach is only toxic, which I explained above.

My point remains that Larian's approach to sexual representation is immature and unhealthy.

This is my point right here. Let's say BG1 and 2 were remade today. Yes, there was a brothel. Yes, you could choose to sleep with characters. However, it can be presented in a less in-your-face method so that it doesn't cause potential customers to not buy the game... or finish it.

Example: In the game Fate, you could get married and sleep with your wife. When you did, fade to black, you hear some giggling noises and knew what was happening, and it's over. They COULD have animated some naughty stuff, but they chose not to. There's LOTS of things animators can do besides showing naked people totally doing it front and center on the screen. It doesn't have to be so explicit so that it doesn't turn people away from buying the game or ever buying another Larian game.

I myself will hesitate to buy another Larian game because of their explicit sex scenes in this one. I will have to read reviews and stuff to see if people are saying that Larian has included explicit sex. As it is, I'm deathly afraid that Larian is going to add MORE vulgarity and sex in BG3 to the point that I won't even be able to finish it. I'm REALLY REALLY afraid that some later level - or multiple levels - is going to have naked men/women popping out of nowhere at me, succubuses trying to seduce my character with nothing on, or practically nothing on - or incubuses - walking in on other people having sex like the bugbear and ogre scene, and so forth. VERY afraid! Seriously. I'm not exaggerating. It is a serious fear of mine. If they include too much of this kind of stuff, I'm out. I won't be able to finish this game which has become my favorite game of all time. I've played this game WAY more than KOTOR, my previously favorite game. By simply adding this kind of content, it will completely plummet this game to TOTAL AND ABSOLUTE TRASH AND A HUGE WASTE OF TIME in moments. That's how strongly I feel about it. The only reason I tolerate it now is because it is optional to trigger sex scenes, and I can turn down my volume to not hear the duergar vulgarity. If they make it so that it just pops out at me while going through the story, like the bugbear and ogre scene but maybe even more explicit, it'll ruin the whole game for me. (Note: I totally NEVER go to the bugbear/ogre shack. EVER, because of just how much it affected me the first time.)

And it is a MAJOR downside to me that they don't have some way to turn off the sex scenes and vulgarity in its current state. When they added the duergar dialogues at Grymforge, I was disgusted and it really tarnished my gameplay. I had to struggle through it, gritting my teeth and just bearing it for the love of the overall game. If they add more, I don't know what I'll do.

I am not complaining. I am telling you how I feel. If this game gets MORE vulgar and sexual, it'll ruin the whole thing for me. I'm barely tolerating what they have in it so far.

However, IF they give me the option to turn off sex and vulgarity, my love and enjoyment for the game will rise again back to where it was when I first started playing it. It's as simple as that. Let me turn off the nasty bits and this game will skyrocket in terms of enjoyment for me, and it'll make me have faith that Larian will produce future games that give me such options so I can actually play them.

Sure they could ?, but why should they, these things has allways been in the BG saga, and as the years gone everything evolve... im not sure how i can tell you this in a nice way, i respect your views, but dont force them on others... the game is rated as it is, deal with it...

To explain alittle where i come from, i at times go to a bath house, or bastu(sauna) think its steam bath in english, there is those Saunas that split between genders, and those that is for both, but main thing is, clouthes isnt allowed in most Saunas, you enjoy the sauna with people, you talk, and its often people you dont know, or never met... people isnt secualy aroused or have a hard on... its not a big thing, its nekkid people enjoying a healthy steam bath...

Are you implaying scandinavian people are doing it wrong ?

You are esentually telling me that i cant enjoy a sauna naked as we for generations done, couse you feel uncomfterble arond strangers thats naked... well lol... there is things i like in life and there is things i dont like, if i dont likesomething or feel uncomfterble, i avoid it... but i dont try to force peopel to change their work, maybe they enjoy it as it is ?...

and maybe go to the bath house where people dont sauna naked

Asking for a sanitized version of the world doesn't seem reasonable to me, even if you get a bowlderized Baldur's Gate option. These games aren't for young people, and being Christian isn't synonymous with being against vulgarity in art. If they give you an option to censor some of the things you don't like, I'm glad you'll be able to play the game without reservation, but I don't think a conscientious person like yourself should really need that to appreciate it.

If nothing else, I'm sure somewhere down the line a modder will be able to take care of it, if Larian doesn't.

You're equating seeing nude bodies in non-sexual environments with viewing explicit sex scenes. These are incredibly different. A more apt comparison would be if you & people in your culture regularly met to hang, talk, etc in brothels/sex clubs.

Would you be comfortable being around strangers that were having sex right next to you?

Edit: Nudity isn't an inherently sexual thing. Sex, by definition, is a sexual thing. I'm certainly not saying sex is shameful or immoral, but it is different, and one can easily believe/argue that nudity is fine while sex should be kept private (fade to black in non-porn games).

I'm not forcing anything. I'm asking for an option to turn it off so I can enjoy the game, and I'd they make the sex and vulgarity worse, an option to turn it off allows me to finish the game without having to grit my teeth and bear it and/or without having to determine whether I should just chuck the game as opposed to finish it. Why should they? Because I am obviously not alone. If they provide the option, they could gain more customers and more returning customers.

So if you walk into a sauna and we sit naked, males, females, young and old... would you tell usto cover up so you can enjoy the sauna, and finish your paid time ?

So lets argue with the thought that Larian do make a PG version, in order for it to still actually be rated as PG larian actually have to live up to certain standards, if they dont, its still rated for a more mature audience... my anoyance with all this, is that these things isnt as easy as some of you think, its thousends of lines of text, cutscenes and animations that needs to dupplicated and in many cases still story wise make sense...and the risk is that the entire story or the entire game gets nerfed, or the production time get drastically longer... and even more so in many countries of for example Larian fail to live up to certain things they risk getting sued...

Its alittle like cyber punk, they tried to make a game for all platforms, and in compromising performance to fit the low end platforms, it ended up a really broken game on release... you not just asking Larian to have a PG tailored version for you and like minded, your also asking everyone else to wait for it... and from the beginning cyberpunk was going to be full nude, then they added PG versions, in order to make it more accesiable, wich also ended up removing alot of inteded grafical things...

Anouther example, someone writes a book, and i ask the author to re write the entire book and add in alittle grafical romancing stuff... fairly sure the writer could do that, but its alot of text to "change" add to still keep the story...

So sure, im oki with what you say, if it in no way in anyway, adds bugs, or limits the original intended experience or DELAYS the production...

Some people are just going to be less comfortable with sex in media than other people. It could be due to religion or morals, but it could also just be personal preference stemming from any number of things, and their comfort level with it isn't in itself a measure of character one way or another. I think getting this explicit with the sexual content is going to cost the game something. Is the cost worth it? No way to know yet, and everyone will have a different answer ultimately. But the question, the real question, isn't about sex in the abstract. At least it shouldn't be. The question should be what each individual scene of sexual content adds to the game. Does it add anything to the world or the story that can't be done without? Or can't be conveyed in a more efficient, concise way? If the answer is no, then they shouldn't be there, because those are questions that should be asked about any scene, and if the answer is no, then the scene shouldn't be there full stop. The eventual sex scene between Tav and Gale? I think that serves a purpose, at least in theory if not in execution. The weird bugbear sex thing? That's honestly just dumb and a kind of humor that's beneath the game. I think the same goes for being able to fire Barcus Wroot from the windmill.

Edit: And regarding vulgarity specifically, in the form of swearing, I definitely think it can just go too far. My example of that is The Witcher 2. They specifically used the word 'ploughing' so often that I just straight up got sick of it. And it was noticeably tured down in Witcher 3. Frankly I think the Duergar are approaching the point where it's just an eye-rolling level of vulgarity. It's not just offensive, it's annoying. It starts feeling forced and unnatural. I think as a contained occasion it's acceptable, but if it gets more intense than that, it'll really just feel like 'I get it, you're vulgar. Can we just have an actual conversation now?"

Wow, you must have quite the view from up on that high horse. If you're that disgusted maybe do the mature thing and take a pass.

Dude. I would not go to a sauna where it is cross-gender. I don't really like saunas to begin with, but I certainly wouldn't go to one where males, females, young and old are naked together. If I did enter one, and discovered that it was this way, I'd walk right out and ask for my money back.

I can't do that with BG3. It's too late to ask for my money back. I've already played it for like 600+ hours for 2+ years. If they make the game MORE vulgar and sexual than it already is, I'm going to just have to uninstall and suffer. I don't get to know the end simply because they made it SO vulgar and sexual that I can't, in good conscience, continue it. THAT is my big fear for this game.

Also, I am NOT - and I repeat - NOT asking them to create an entirely different PG version of the game. All I'm asking - and others like me, for the most part - is options in settings. Option 1 = Explicit Sex Scenes On/Off where Off means that if you choose to sleep with someone, it fades to black. If there are parts of the game where naked men or women spring out at you or they're having explicit sex and you walk in on them, the option makes it so that you are forewarned. "Warning: Explicit material ahead." And I REALLY REALLY hope they don't have anything explicit or whatever that is mandatory for a person to complete the game. As long as they keep it as optional like the campfire party where everyone asks you to do it, I can live with that. The bugbear and ogre scene I can also live with, though a nice warning message would have been nice. Like I said, something that pops up and says, "Don't open the door ahead. Explicit content." Fine. That's optional. I'll just avoid it. Thanks for the warning Larian. And vulgarity? Bleep it out and do this to the subtitles: "$#@$" Ah. Now I know they're saying raunchy, nasty, vulgar stuff, but I'm not reading about how Thrynn is going down on Nere, or whatever. I don't like reading about or hearing that stuff, and it does seriously hurt my enjoyment of the game. I'd really like THE OPTION to have it blurred out, bleeped, or just totally removed if I go into Settings and hit "Vulgarity Off" or "Explicit Nudity and Sex Off" or whatever.

So, again, it's not the whole game redone. It's a few scenes that they could fade to black or bleep out or blur or something so people don't actually see full fledged naked boobies and bottoms and people humping each other and talking about humping each other. I do not think that stuff is fun, and it seriously ruins the game for me when it pops up on me.

So lets NOT argue. It's just me stating why I want an option to turn off that stuff, and why I'm in support of such an option. You might have tons and loads of fun with explicit nakedness and sex in a game and all that nasty vulgar talk, but I don't. I want to enjoy the game to its fullest too, so I'm simply supporting the options to be able to turn that junk off.

And... btw... I also don't support books that have explicit sex and vulgarity. I typically toss them in the garbage. I know that's not your point, but to address your point, again, I'm not asking Larian to rewrite a ton of stuff. I'm asking them to create an option or options for us who don't enjoy such material so that we can turn it off. Here's how it would go:

Explicit Sex Option
On = Minthara and MC having full explicit sex and dialogues.
Off = You agree to sleep with Minthara. Cuts to Minthara and MC snuggling in the afterglow. It only shows them from the shoulders up, so you know they're naked but it's showing no naked bits. Important dialogues ensue. This is the exact same as the On option except they have zoomed in or tilted the camera or shoot, they just blur out the naughty bits, and they cut out the entire sex portion of the scene. They didn't really change anything - no new scripting or shooting of scenes or nothing. It's like flipping a page in a book instead of reading it. The content is there, but you've elected to skip the naughty portions, reading only the important stuff.

Vulgarity Option
On = All dialogue sound and subtitles as normal.
Off = Vulgar text is changed to $#@$ characters and vulgar speech audio simply goes silent. So, when one of the duergar says, "Thrynn's choking on Nere's prick," it instead says, "Thrynn's $#@$ $# $#@$ #$@$." You kinda get the idea that they're being vulgar and dirty, but you aren't hearing the words or reading them. You know it's not really important text, and you get the idea that the duergar are being nasty. And, if it IS important text mingled with vulgarity, the dialogue does something like this: "In order to enter the $#@$ $#@$ temple, you have to $#@$ $#@$ pull the $#@$ lever on the $#@$ statue."

Do they HAVE to do this? No. Of course not. Those who have said "They said it's M-rated, so they have every right to put whatever mature content they want into the game" are absolutely correct. They have every right to put whatever they want into it. It's their game. Doesn't matter one bit to me what rights they have as a developer. I've purchased the game hoping they will not be too raunchy for me to play it through to the end. I'm a paying customer, and I'm hoping that as a paying customer, and since it is EA and they have the ability to make whatever changes they want, that they will at least consider me and people like me who don't like games with this kind of content.

Will I be upset if they don't do anything? Maybe a little as long as the game doesn't get worse than it already is. I will grit my teeth and bear it as long as it doesn't get worse than present. Will I stop playing the game entirely and consider it totally trash? No, unless they make it MORE vulgar and sexual than it already is and they don't provide any way for players like me to turn off the sex, nudity and vulgarity. Will I ever buy another Larian game? Quite possibly, unless they totally disregard players like me and make it more vulgar and sexual than it already is with no way of turning it off. If they do that, I absolutely will not ever buy another Larian game. Period.

And we could argue all day long about it, but it won't do any good. This is how I feel. This is my personal preference. No amount of arguing about it will change my mind. And again, I'm obviously not the only one or this thread wouldn't have so many pages and it wouldn't have gotten so heated on many occasions.

The path to hell is paved with good intentions...

You sort of touches this youself, not everything is for everyone, like a sauna, dont like it, dont do it, i payed for a dark adult romancy BG saga with stuff that some can persive as uncomfterble, hell i even know i will be offered alot of evil choises and tempted by this, i dont ask Larian to hide that from me, i just chose to avoid it, these things are part of a BG saga, tell me should Larian, make a option that hides evil choises in the game ?, dont even you see the pandoras box this adds of bloat ?... and while, yes Larian can add what you and some want... the risk is, it comes at the expense, again for some of us other... im seriously tired of people wanting to add this, or that, to a certain experience, and it just leads to delayed repeases and broken promises, couse the Publishers need to compromise in order to apease everyone...

Iwe seen so many games with its OG version or scope, get asked to add this, or remove that, to apease a broader clientel, for example a pvp game, that gets pve slapped on, now you need to balance it all for both playstyles, and it generally ends up to little of something, or nothing at all... and that is my worry, in order to make a PG version, Larian will have to compromise the story so it makes sense in both PG and Mature version... meaning the more mature story just gets watered down... and if thats the case, then no !

as i said, sure... but it should in no way delay or change the intended original mature story... so i hope you understand why people are objecting what you ask for, i rather have Larian make the entire game a PG version for you and make that fantastic, then a mish mash that makes no one happy... but that jsut leaves me screwed ower again... becouse im fairly certain, at the end what you ask for will water down, what i payed for, or seriously delay the game for everyone

The BG saga have and have allways been a "MATURE" rated experience

PS Listen its not ust to hide something, if they hide something, or rewrithes something, it creates a chain effect in a tree of cascading responses, one little change can create bizzare paradoxs as respones simply dont line up anymore... and its not just PG version, this will affect the Mature OG story as they need to get back on the same track, and still allways make sense and imersion... its alittle tricker then "just"

To make a example, the scene where two celebrate together after certain events, i dont want to spoil to much, but any later rephrence in the tree that later talks about that scene, during the entire game, need to later line up regarding what you saw or what you did... and this need to line up with both PG and OG, and imagine they add a thrid avoid evil choises... it can be hundreds of lines of text and later that talks about earlier events, that has to line up in all cases, or voice recording... To understand more about this, and how much what you state as "just" Sven talks about the issues about choises in story, and in a emersive way get Shadowheart to show up in logical ways, i dont think you even grasp, how fundamentally this "just" can screw up the story, couse story of text or voice acting dont depict things that make sense...

Fair point, the discussion did not revolve around the reason behind these scenes. I think the reasoning is probably

1) Sexuality is part of every adult person (even asexuals in the way that they need to communicate with people of other types of sexualities) and this part of our characters is often unexplored. Speaking about it becomes more and more natural, and we explore it with our real partners. And yet, our game partner is just a blank. Minthara is a great example of character development by using a sexual theme, I think, but the scene itself is lacking quality yet, yeah.

2) Immersion reasons. This world does not hide from the player its rough edges and feels more real because of that. There is a comment of mine several pages ago in which I describe how showing things that usually are not shown can immerse a payer into the world. BUT! There were great arguments about the fact that lack of control and choices in these scenes can cause an immersion break if you think that the sexual behavior of your character differs from what is shown. So this is also a point of debate.

Your point remains silly. Have you considered that maybe this just isn't the game for you? There's nothing wrong with that.

It is absolutely fine for you to enjoy what BG3 is doing and desire to stay the way it is.

But don’t pretend like BG1&2 anywhere in the same ballpark, even when taking into account overall increase in “mature content” in video games.

Your comparison to sauna is also dishonest - context is not sexual, and sauna is sauna, you get what you sign up for. BG as an IP has established a certain tone, and it is understandable some people who enjoyed tone and rating of BG1&2 won’t appreciate BG3’s choices. Even if Mature rating is front and center, it can mean many things. Pillars of Eternity 1&2 and fallout games also have adult rating, but they don’t contains content like BG3, while being by all accounts more “mature” and grim worlds and stories.

There is narrative shallowness a I think that is bothering me. If sex and prophanity had a narrative justification, I bet I wouldn’t mind it. It is, however, that those cutscenes seem to be for mine and mine entertainment only and it’s just embarrassingly awkward that devs think I do want to watch digital characters having awkwardly animated sex. Or that I will be amused by swearing dwarfs. I don’t and I would prefer to see those go. That’s my feedback, feel free to have a different one.

Oh, and there is no rose tinted glasses for Bg1&2 here. I play those games every couple years, and playing a bit of Bg1 right now, as I am away from my PC. Their content is pretty fresh in my mind.

With that logic, every one here, who participated by giving their feedback, their opinions on the game, offering suggestions, all of them should think that the game isn't for them.

People are allowed to offer their criticisms and suggestions (even if sometime they express themselves in a way that's very…passionate) without being told that it's not their place and that the game isn't made for them.

To me, that question just seems like fake benevolence, hiding a rude attitude and dismissiveness of others opinions.

I follow Cohh replying BG1 and BG2, and as my perception is that the insinuation of sex, whores, concubines etc, their voices, their stances, and how they aproach, or the avatar pictures with boob and binki styles... and mind you everything has evolved, be it violence and the combat, that pixely combat is today far far more grafical, and in the same scope i state the romance/sexual nature is in line with that... but that is my preception

What is the mature and healthy way to approach it? You are not the first person who uses these words. What do they even mean?

Again. Doesn't matter. The point remains. If they make it worse in terms of vulgarity and sex, I'm out, and many will be as well. If the game is just full of sex and crude humor, it will turn off a lot of fans and they will not likely buy the game or buy any future Larian games.

Here's my final argument. Sex appeals to some and draws them to the game. Remove sex and those individuals may not buy anymore Larian games. Loss of future sales. Sex also turns people off to the game. Leave sex in and you may lose those individuals, thus affecting sales for BG3 and future games. Provide an option for streamers and those who don't wanna see sex and such while giving people who want it the option, both sides are happy. No loss in sales and even future sales.

Regardless, it's Larian's choice and they have to live with it, just as it is my choice whether I finish the game or buy another Larian game, and whether I recommend a Larian game to others, including BG3. It is what it is no matter what we say.

And yet, I say again, I still support the option to censor no matter your argument.

It seems like there's a number of folks on all sides of this discussion who are falling more into the trap of picking each other apart, than having a directed conversation about a topic; the thread hasn't really covered any new ground in the past two pages, and is drifting more into side topics that some folks are mostly just using to pick and poke at one another. I know it's not my place, but I'd like to encourage all sides of the debate to take a step or two and a breath or two, and focus back in on the opinion you want to voice about the topic at hand, and focus less on trying to tear down people who think or feel otherwise.

The original topic title doesn't help, I admit - it's a bit inflammatory ^.^

Pachanj asked about reasons why they should be there, well for me, several reasons:

- It's a chance to explore an element of my character and define who they are and what they're like in this aspect, and to me that's important.
- Similarly, it's a chance to see other characters at personal and intimate moments, and there's a strong element of immersion involved in having the sorts of conversations that only really happen in intimate pillow scenarios, actually in those scenarios, rather than after the fact with all our clothes back on, where it feels out of place or stilted.
- The immersion element extends to stepping into the place of my character and (ideally) having some influence over how they act and behave in that scenario - and mentally exploring what they experience during it; imagination always plays an important role here, of course, and does the majority of the heavy lifting, but if it's done well, I appreciate the scaffolding of a scene playing out in the process.
- Character direction in intimate sequences also opens up the opportunity for more character customisation in intimate ways; having a complete character and being able to describe many more elements of what that looks like; I personally view this as a positive, though for accessibility, of course, defining your character's intimate details and traits should be optional (in the way that some games do this, it's a check box in character creation that, when you click to enable it, then opens up the related menus and options, but has them not visually existing before you select to engage - I'd like that)
- Lastly, because I'm an adult woman and it's a bit of naughty fun, and I really feel like games can be better if they're more comfortable with some naughty fun adult activity as a natural part of the world and lives they build and portray.


All this turns on the supposition, however, that the scenes as they are need to be vastly improved in their atmosphere, pacing, tone and shooting/choreography to really be satisfying in this way - but I genuinely want them improved, and I don't want Larian to back off from his or get scared. I want them to do better, now that they've taken the biggest step of deciding to go all in.

agree lets agree to disagree and all get everything we wish for...

I am amazed this is still a topic of argument when it's been stated from the beginning that BG3 was going to have sex scenes. Don't want a game with sex scenes? Go play an E rated game. I'll take the belligerent stance of "Screw it, Pornify this game as much as you can just so the people complaining about it leave." We have enough sanitized games out there that you don't need to look for more than a nanosecond to find 100s of RPGs that won't offend your puritan sensibilities.

Making choices that directly effect your character, and their relationship to another character isn't something you've seen a lot in games that have had sex scenes, it's all the more interesting to see what consequences it'll have on the story. It's also why simple options to fade-to-black or excise the scenes entirely don't appear so straightforward.

Ah sex in BG3… look it in positive way!
It triggers night event xD in game without day/night cycle.
Anyway joke aside, it is rly waste of resources imo…
I would prefer good old fade to black if anything as kiss being sort of intro to it and then fade to black…
So I can headcanon it in my head, how the rest went.
Idk why I need visual presentation dictated by a dev, how charas are doing it…
I hate nowadays, nothing is left to abit of imagination.

And that's what I mean by "a schism in entertainment". Go play an E rated game? Do you know of any good RPGs that are E Rated? And again, lots of REALLY bad RPGs exist, sure, but not very many are actually good.

BG1 and 2 and IWD were good. Neverwinter Nights was good. KOTOR was AWESOME. Sex scenes in those? Nope. None. Some naughty characters like harlots, but not sex scenes sold a gazillion copies too, proving GOOD RPG does not NEED sex to sell.

Solasta is good and Pathfinder. 100s though, that are good games? Hardly. I've been starving for another good Turn Based RPG, especially 5e, and there's Solasta and BG3. That's it. Not 100s.

So yeah. It's frustrating when I finally get a 5e game that is turn based, and there's content that is, imo, totally unnecessary. Some don't think it's unnecessary, but whatever. The point is, I finally get a good RPG to rival KOTOR after a decade or whatever, and it has stuff that makes my stomach churn and I have to grit my teeth and bear it. It seriously hinders my love for the game.

Interestingly, in spite of my preference, I'm not saying, "Screw all your naughty fantasies. Larian should just totally cut all sex from the game. Who cares what you think or like?". I'm just asking for an option and hoping maybe they'll give it to us - an option to shut off sex - to skip the raunchy bits so I can ALSO enjoy the 3rd installment of the series to the fullest.

Also, do you even know what a Puritan is? They are REALLY strict Christians who would never be caught dead playing a video game of any kind, let alone BG3. I'm a FAR cry from a Puritan. I don't agree with having these explicit sex scenes, but I'm not condemning anyone. I'm not even demanding that they remove the content so you who enjoy it can still do so. I'm just asking for an option.

If they give it, great. If not, I at least tried.

Cyberpunk, Mass Effect and Dragon Age have sex scenes, Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 had a lot of adult content as has been stated. Arcanum there was at least 1 brothel and a goat. Fable games had sex with fade to black. Sex has been in games for a long time to varying degrees. There's also sex in plenty of TV shows, movies and books. Larian has decided to implement sex into their game. If you don't like it you can easily skip the scene. Somebody raised the Christian flag but then shouldn't they also be critiquing the violence and vulgarity as well. Swearing and killing folk aren't model behaviour either. If your going to state that sex should be censored due to potential children seeing, that's on the parents who don't even track their kids microtransaction spending, and again the violence and vulgarities. I don't recall full penetration showing but maybe they've changed that. Suppose I'll need to burn down the grove to check, kill them kids and families.

The game itself is rated mature, which contains sexual content.

This thread is not about violence and such. It's about explicit sex. We've had other threads discussing violence including killing kids, which I also don't like.

The "Christian" flag was "raised" to let you know where I'm coming from. I love adventure. I love fantasy. But GOOD adventure and fantasy are getting harder and harder to find without sex and, since people keep bringing it up, without pushing the envelope constantly; making games more vulgar, more sick and twisted and so forth. Yes. Killing kids in a game is not fun either, and listening to duergar saying lewd things is also not fun.

But I very much enjoy the majority of the game, and that's why it frustrates me that there are these elements that ruin it which I can't turn off. If I have to live with them, I'll try.

Larian, please at least don't make it worse and especially unavoidable. Don't make it like one game I tried where you have to walk into a strip club and have ladies lap dancing. That game went RIGHT off. Done in a flash. Never played it again. What was the game about? Can't even remember, but it made its negative impact real fast.

Please don't do that to me, Larian. Please don't ruin this awesome RPG adventure.

You do know that one of the romancing companions in BG2 can have a baby ?, and the stories around it... i doubt it was a big white bird that delivered it...

Then tell me this Larian studios have a mechanic called romancing, there is entire story lines around just this, and how to set up certain more deapher bonds, and im not talking hand holding, and while im taking this up to you, isnt to be rude but to actually try to make you understand, its not just a random scene, that can be "fade to black", there will be alot of text and pre recorded voice lines, that will lead up to this, and later be the result of, likely follow the story as it evolves, its not just to blank, a voice line can be very difrent in wich way its recorded...

And that brings us back to the whole romancing mechanic, there is several problems that come to my mind, for example, many of these companions, have their story evolve based on their trust, or aproval, and some of that aproval is also part in these "romancing"... Now you can ofcourse choose to keep these characters short, but that also means yo dont get closer to them ie you/we miss out on aproval rating... wich also might lead to later lines/voice lines that is direct spin off from said scenes...

Now if Larian could in asimple way fade to black, that be great, but it isnt that simple, even more so, when everything is voice recorded as well, and its also tied to how companions etc grow together... im just afraid that either the PG version just misses alot of the story since the aproval up is also part in how the story evolves, or larian has to record multiple sets of same lines, couse some might get upset at some voice lines is "sexual"...

now im trying to work with you, and hold a dialouge, i have several times explained and pointed to issues in coding, text/voicestrctures, that its not just to fade to black... as the entire story line, will create pre recorded follow up lines... to me it feels, you want the romance options, yet you dont want to experience it with voice or pictures... and i just see this... book where every other page has a *Beeep* in it...

I mean you could solo the game with no companions ?, or avoid any companions that can in som way lead to romanceing... problem solved ?

GM4Him doesn't have a problem with sex, he just doesn't want to see it. I'm not unsympathetic to his overarching point, a lot of genre fiction used to be for everyone, "All-Ages", they would deal with mature themes but they weren't shown explicitly. Now a lot of those same stories are allowed to be more explicitly for adults, and feel it's necessary to earn their rating in order to be taken seriously, a lot of the time it feels shoehorned in, like they're checking it off a list (which they probably are). So we get stories made for adults or children instead of for both. I don't think it's as bad as all that, but its true that all the best sci-fi shows I've seen of the past decade probably wouldn't be available to me as a kid, and that's including Star Trek which is kind of sad.

Still the solution isn't less mature games, it's more games. I don't find the sex scenes in BG3 to be vulgar, and if they're serious about incorporating our character choices into them, it could be a way self-censoring the content you see.

Could he just not select any of the very obvious dialogue choices with multiple "warnings" to trigger those? I don't remember any content being gated behind a sex scene in the early access too.

There's a whole spectrum available between "No nod to even the existence of sex" and "Full on porn scenes" and I think it's unfair to equate not wanting the latter with wanting the former. I also take issue with the request for having an option to remove or tone down the sex and vulgarity being described as wanting a 'sanitized' product. Again, there's a difference between the two desires. I've not


Regarding this question, I think there's actually a good answer here. I think that answer lies in how the narrative itself deals with its contents. Does it actually call on the viewer/reader/consumer to think about what's going on? Does the game just HAVE sex, or does it deal with sex? Deal with it in the sense of characters reacting to it, having thoughts and feelings about it. Or is it just there in a way that could be theoretically excised without the point of the narrative changing? For example, I'll point you to the dragon age games, not for sex, but for racism. I'd say that those games deal with racism. Whereas so far, Baldur's Gate 3 mostly just HAS racism. The tieflings are a plot thread that could expand further into something that also DEALS WITH racism, but so far I don't think it quite gets there.

All of that sounds fine to me. As you say there is some improvement to be made, and so far all I experience is one sex scene only, from an evil path which in general feels like it needs a lot of fleshing out.

What I am sceptical is if what you describe is something that Larian is even aiming at. My impression was the sex scene was closer to cards from Witcher1 or videos from Yakuza game - naughty rewards for the player. That’s the main reason for my contempt for it, and if it will stay that way, I would welcome an ability to just automatically skip those. Larian is more then welcome to surprise me with their 1.0 release, though.

Well I'd cite Earthbound, but that's technically the now defunct K-A rating, and really beside the point, but what has yet to be considered by the hordes of players demanding that BG3 not have sex scenes is A: They are optional content that you are not being forced to engage in(You can ignore the romance prompts, it isn't hard), and B: We already know that BG3 is being planned with streaming in mind, and they've talked about giving options for stream viewers to vote on dialogue choices, so tell me: What is Twitch's policy on porn games?

Edit: I'd like to add an adendum. I'm tired of overly sanitized media. I'm sick of everything having to be clean and safe and neutered and sexless because "Think of the Children" or peoples personal discomfort. There's an abundance of sexless media out there for players to consume who don't wish to engage with an actual part of life. Maybe let us degens have this one? Especially since it seems like Larian are the same sorts of degens who made it clear from the beginning of development that this was going to be in the game. If we can have gratuitous violence where you're greeted to mutilated corpses and exposed brains in the first 5 minutes of gameplay, we can certainly stand to have a tiddy and not have society collapse.

You say that, but I feel BG3 would be rather stand out if it embraced "rated T for teen" spirit of the IP. Games have been posturing and claiming how adult they are but adding violence, sex and prophanity for a while now.

Gonna have to remove a lot of blood, gore, and viscera to even hope of getting that T rating, and I'm sure lots of dialogue will have to be rewritten too. Also I can't imagine the spirit of the IP is "T for Teen" when bare tits used to grace all of the manuals and promotional material up until around 3rd edition. A lot of Clyde Caldwell pieces come to mind.

Edit: Also we can never forget the Random Harlot Table of AD&D

There lot of good points on this page. First of all, to re-iterate, this thread is about the explicit sex scenes. Not romance, not the fact that BG3 romances lead to sex, and not violence/swear words. The scenes themselves.

Quotes: All the above ties into the question: What purpose do the sex scenes in BG3 serve? Are they actually important to the story or character/relationship development? Or are they just an erotic reward for players, maybe that Larian has included to partially justify the rating of "Mature"? My current opinion is that the sex scenes are mainly the latter, and thus could be removed (or made optionally fade-to-black) without affecting much of import.

An additional consideration is whether these scenes affect further-down-the-line companion romances and/or game opportunities. If I reject Lae'zel and don't have sex with her, can my romance of her continue? Or must I accept and view the sex scene in order to get closer to her? If I reject Minthara, do I lose out on information and options regarding Moonrise Towers? (I'm curious about this. Does Minthara give you information the morning after regardless if you sleep with her?)

Someone like Minthara might withhold information if you refuse to sleep with her and thereby insult her pride, forcing you to accept the consequences of your choices and seek another path/clue to continue your journey, like a role-playing game might have you do. Lae'zel might not ever be interested in romance at all and is only interested in carnal fulfillment. Shadowheart clearly isn't interested in rushing into things, and wants to make you work for it.

The Lae'zel gripe is funny to me, because I remember years ago being incensed at the fact that in Dragon Age Inquisition that I couldn't romance Vivienne. I was playing a Mage and thought she would be the perfect match for him, but she just laughs you off, no matter how much approval you gain with her. You will never get everything you want exactly the way you want it. If Lae'zel doesn't want to romance your ace character, that's part of her character. Romance is partly a matter of opportunities, or rather missed one's. If you turn someone's advances down, they're not obligated to wait on you like Hachiko. Lae'zel will hook up with someone else if you reject her. People move on and look elsewhere for romance if another option makes itself unavailable or unappealing.

You can absolutely use sex and sex scenes to meaningfully gleam into character psyche and motivation, and advance the story, and if players are titillated along the way, who cares? You can play an ace celibate paladin who will not be tempted and follow the pure path of no-fap.

Things can be both erotic and of narrative significance.

Sure, but there's no indication that Minthara has any information for you, or that she'll only give it to you if you sleep with her. Like, a quest where you're supposed to get information from [Person] and one of your options is seducing them is fine. Great, even! But gating information behind sex scenes, information that the game doesn't tell you is even available and that you can't get otherwise? Less fine.

For the Lae'zel thing, I was using her as an example. The real issue is if all of the companions' romance can't be progressed without having explicit sex with them. Most games' romances end in sex, so you don't lose any relationship development by skipping that final sex scene. This is not so in BG3.

I agree. Developers can do those things. Is Larian doing those things in BG3 though, and doing them well?

building a story, and its paths, build up and eventualy conclusions in what ever it may be, has evolved be it combat, good, evil, gore, with the tech, opens new posibilities... And when you say, is the X scene needed, that question can be aplied to everything, the conclusion to letting the goblins into a certain place and betray them could all been a fade to black, couse should we depict such treachery, and vile acts ?...

And the growing grafical enhancement we are seeing, is done on combat, gore blood, voice everything is grafical... now you me, and everyone on these forums all have things we react to difrently, and most of you wouldent bat a eye, when a head is chopped of, or feel uncomfterble at that evil choise... but this drama is been taken up constantly when nudity, sex is shown in any form, and i dont even call it sex, what ever we see in BG3 is part of romance paths...

And as i try to tell in my earlier threads, these romance paths have ALLWAYS been part of Larian games, and when they do these quest lines the scenes voices, etc has evolved grafically like everything else... and these Romance paths is voven into the game with "choices" and " aprovals " you cant just fade out one scene, couse the more you follow that romance path, the more it will be talked of, the more choises youll get, we are in ACT1 now, my question to you, do you think we will be able to keep romance companions for the entire story ?... so how do you handle the follow up talks, discusions of things we did, but was blanked out, yet its already recorded and is kept brining up... what im trying to tell you and others, its not just as simple to fade to black one scene, couse its a entire path of choise tree...

So of course, Larian could be less grafical, but that could be done to everything, they just improved grafics across the board, everything is more grafical... and as i said in a other thread... if you dont want to desend into Romance paths, solo play, pick companions that are likely not to be romansable, and its not like these things sneak up on you... its like shooting yourself with bow and arrow in the foot... so again, we all have tons of choises, dont like something, dont do it ?

Without knowing what's to come, I'd like to believe that the choices made during these scenes are going to be meaningful to the story. If the camp scene is in fact the one and only time that relationships in this game are flagged romantic, then we can expect them to be pretty shallow. I don't think that's what we're getting. Espescially considering everything in the EA is leading up to a climax at Moonrise Towers, with everything leading up to it being there to inform our *Dramatic* *Choices*. Everything we've gotten either feels like a setup for what comes, or is a damp squib for what won't.

Minthara's scene in an interesting example because Drow society is one of the few times sexual politics are overt in the setting, It's probably been more than a year since I last saw it, but I think I remember her attitude to you taking into account your sex.

Yea i think your right, and consdiering how these paths, not just Romance ones, i think we only seen the tip of the ice berg, this is a alpha, a test for us to play around and give Larian data... i think we are going to see paths, ROmance included only grow... and like Normal Larian taste their going to give us it, be it goody, dark evil or romancable, and lol how many of you think anything in a alpha or act1 is the peak of anything ?... *smirk* I think we will see lots and lots of more of EVERYTHING.

I can’t remember it being explored in BG3 (so far) so even if it is appropriate for the setting, Larian hasn’t done anything with it so far.

They don't serve any purpose whatsoever. Lets be clear, I would rather avoid the Sex scenes AND the romance stuff altogether because I think its such an overplayed trope. Its basic, puerile, pointless and hackneyed. However, I am not in any way a prude. I just don't see them as anything but a distraction from the far more interesting plot and subplots, and gods and conspiracies and ancient histories. Its such a rich tableau of a story that to sully it with romance/sex/whatever seems like putting ketchup on a hotdog.

Also you really shouldn't boink your co-workers and work associates. Its bad form. Causes drama.

But if you don't put it in the teeming masses, the bungled and the botched will bray with sadness and despair...and frankly I want Larian to have those people's money. Larian will make better use of it then they would.

Heaven forfend we have any drama in this adventure

Thats not entirly true, i know atleast one of the scenes leads to aproval rating, and the following day opens up several dialogue options, and considering this is act 1 and a alpha its likely we wont dip to far into this regardless... and that is pretty much in line with all Larian BG games, and their romance paths, their not only "fluff", as i can give more content and or follow up quests...

I certainly hope you're wrong and we don't see lots and lots of more of EVERYTHING.

This is what I believe. If they do more sex and vulgarity without a way for players to censor it, and without some seriously good game play and story to temper it, BG3 will be like Episodes 8 and 9 for Star Wars. It will tank the Forgotten Realms video games and Larian and leave fans utterly disgusted.

Here's my observation. Most TV shows and games try to add more sex to sell their product, but the end result is they die instead. Why? Sex sells, but only for a hot minute. People who love sex in stuff quickly get tired of the medium that has presented it. They get their jollies from it for the first couple of times through it, and then they're off to find another medium to satisfy their desires, forgetting all about the source because it's now old.

If sex is added to a game or show as flavor sprinkled on top of a good story, and it isn't a primary focus, it may last, but if there is too much it fails. I tell you the truth, if they aren't real careful with this aspect of the game, this could bomb the whole project and it could take Larian with it. They need to take it REAL serious.

And you never know who will try to play this game and what reviews they will give it, and how powerful their sway is. Sometimes one nasty review can destroy everything.

If they follow the other BG games and how romance work there, it will have its part in the game, it will open up its own quests and little tid bits, that said, you dont need to romance anyone to finish the game, and you will have other options...

Also Larian will as far as i know "evolve" everything equally, exactly as combat grafic gets more grafical, so is the romance scenes, exactly as the voice dialouge gets improved it improves across the board... its just how it gets as computor games more and more lifelike...

When you build a tree of dialouge, things lead or cross lead as the story evolve... now i am just taking these things up, in act1 in a alpha, we get a glimpse into the early embers of "romance", then ponder on how other BG games been, these romance quest lines/stories will continue to evolve across the entire story...

That said, you dont have to romance anyone to finish the story, but side or alternative content might be tied to it... example i never seen the minthara content, couse i aint thrilled by that kind of "evil" content, but as you see, you can still evolve the story, it have several paths to manuvere it...

And as i told you earlier, its not like its hard to avoid these scenes if you so choose... you dont need to romance anyone to finish the game... its sort of problematic how to "access" everything, as depending on our choises, if i please Shadowheart, i tend to piss off LAezel etc, if i betray certain people and go with Minthara, i will miss out on those i betray...

You express it, like you are going to miss out on the entire game, and i agree with you IF you had to see these things to finish the game... i can asure you, you wont need to romance anyone to finnish the game, will you miss some things attached to the romance, probably, but all of us will miss out on things, couse as i said, you cant please everyone in these games, its sort of impossible to do everthing in one run... ? and if you are prompted, do you want to go and spend the night together with some one special, perhaps take the hint since its a mature game ?... ^.^

That's why I said that as long as they keep going with it as they are now, I'll live with not having romance. If they do MORE sex stuff like the bugbear and ogre where I was just exploring and accidentally walked in on a not so funny to me situation, if that kind of stuff gets worse, and they don't provide a way to censor it, that may just ruin the game. I'm saying that if they start having hookers in practically nothing trying to seduce you, and you had 0 option to avoid it... Yep. I'm out. I don't like that crap in games.

That said, it will still disappoint me greatly that I won't be able to romance any character in the game like I had with the rest of the BG series because I know explicit sex is involved. There won't be any Revan and Bastilla style romance for me - not in BG3 because I can't fade to black and thus far there is 0 build up to anything. The only "romance" in BG3 I can have will likely be more like 50 Shades of Gray, which I would never be caught dead seeing.

So regardless, I'm not planning on romance in this game, and hopefully they will at least keep the truly explicit stuff to their sex scenes and not mixed in with the whole game I plan to create my own stories and romances, creating my own parties of custom characters and making up romances between them. That's about the best I can do. It's not as much fun, but it beats the alternative.

i havent seen the rest of the game, but if i guess, will there be hooker/whores, likely, all other BG games had them... then as for accidental scenes, there is a possibility of all kind of depraved dark things, and these things will get more grafical couse well, the games grafic has evolved...

Then we have Wyll, you probably know alittle of his story, and seen a pic of him with a succubus nestled around him ?, where and in what way Larian takes this...

So yea at large, you can probably avoid these things, but, i should atleast prepare myself for story suprices, i mean what do you do if you walk into a nymph ? or other creatures like it, im not saying there will be, but... considering how good and life like the grafiks is getting, and DnD have these kinda of monsters, and i honselty dont think Larian will put pants and a hat on the nymph ?... and their thing like a succubus is to, yea ?

Wtf are you even talking about? Sex and vulgarity didn't tank Star Wars 8 and 9. Bad writing and an incoherent narrative ranked it critically, but it was still a financial success. Forgotten Realms was founded in sleeve and raunchiness. Gary Gygax was far more inspired by Conan than he was LotR. AD&D even had an official Red Sonja module.

Media franchises don't fail because of sex. Sex is basically the only saving grace of Overwatch and the only thing keeping Blizzard alive. Franchise fatigue and hack writers with screenplays no one will pick up who hate the media they adapt and use it as a veneer for their failed screenplays is why media fails. You think Skyrim would have 20 billion re-releases if CBBE didn't exist?

"Go Woke Go Broke" is a myth, and the majority of people like to be horny. Puritans are the minority.

Huhhhh? Aside from being a rather great hero shooter, undermined only by business side of the title, I can't recall any sex scenes in Overwatch nor Overwatch2 (that said I am not really interested in Overwatches non-game content). I assume you refer friends o whatever community is up to outside of the game - but here is the crucial point - it is not in the game. Generally when someone says about professionally made media that "it feels like a fanfic" it is not a positive comment.

There is an onslaught of femshep/Liara fanfic in the ME community, and it's based on the actual romance line you can follow in the game. But you're honing in on a mildly tongue in cheek remark to ignore the point that claiming sex scenes don't belong in Forgotten Realms because of the IP's history entirely ignores all the lore of Forgotten Realms and the history of D&D, TSR, and the works of Ed Greenwood and Gary Gygax. They were just as horny as the rest of us, and a large chunk of the og monster manuals being plastered with naked monster women and the dm guide even having a harlot table should speak to that fact. It has never been a kid's property, and if you can't handle the existence of content in a game you disagree with, don't play it.

I feel there’s a difference between showing breasts/ alluding to the presence of sex in the game world and having a graphic scene of a oral sex.

Sure and fanfic is not the same as game content. It is irrelevant for me what fanfic players will draw and wrote for BG3.

I also can't speak for D&D as a whole, as my contact with it are just cRPG adaptations, like Baldur's Gate, and what appears in another d&D property doesn't automatically make it a good for for another.

The problem isnt sex itself, its small number of people that want to remove its existance or dress it up... Everything in the games have got more grafical, couse the tech is getting more advanced... that means that the pixely whores back in BG1 will likely be scantely dressed in BG3 and since the grafics is more advanced they will have a better impact, exactly as a sword fight is, you see every detail more, it gets more gorey...

So, the problem is take Wyll he has a mistress a succubus, a creature that dominates and more or less feeds of sexual energy, some in this thread more or less demands they should put pants and a hat on it, and dress it according to "cristian" woman ideal, hell why not hide it entirely and put a hijab on it...

You have the same thing with a nymph, as some pointed out, the drow sociaty use sex domination as instruments to control... "oki lets dress these thngs up and remove it", so my question to you is, IF you want a modern world with modern cristian ideals, why are you even playing a fantasy game, where the entire idea is a "escape" away and be something else in a entirely diffrent made up fantasy... ITs not real its a game, let i be a fantasy as its soposed to be, nymphs and succubuses included...

Beautifully put. I'd also like to add that this game let's you murder children, so the people screeching for the removal of sex scenes are basically saying "murdering tiefling children is one thing, but so help me God if I see 1 penis enter a vagina, I'll scream!"

Why are people okay with excessive violence and torture and murder, but the act of lovemaking is somehow too graphic to depict in video games?

Most countries are more ok with the depiction of violence than the depiction of sex, likely because of deeply rooted religious and societal reasons. I agree that it doesn't make sense when you think about it, yet here we are.

As to killing children - I was under impression that tiefling children are unkillable (I remember people saying why we can kill goblin children but not the others). But either way, children are NPCs, we get to attack NPCs and children are one of them. If on the other hand after completing a quest chain player would be rewarded with lengthy cutscene of our hero killing children in different ways - yeah, I would be pretty disturbed that the game seems to think I would enjoy seeing it.

I just love those geniuses who think that showing sex is worse than showing murder, and believe that that they must preach to us, unworthy losers, about the meaning of fun. Can we have a just award them a permanent ban so they can enjoy those wonderful booby free games somewhere else?

My goodness. First, this thread is not about violence. We've had other threads about the killing of the children and so forth. Please stop bringing it back to that.

But, since you decided to bring it there, here's my answer. When evil rises in the world, violence is necessary. The whole original point of fantasy was good fighting evil. Over the last 4 decades in particular, more and more games and stories have shifted from good versus evil to anything goes.

Am I okay with violence? Absolutely, and so is God but ONLY when necessary to end evil. If a man murders another man, the murderer deserves to be put to death - generally speaking. The Bible is FULL of rules in regards to when killing others is a necessity and when it is wrong.

In BG3, murdering the goblin kids becomes a necessity because they are going to get you killed if you don't. You are, essentially, the "good" guys taking down an evil cult - or at least I am when I play. Thus, it is necessary to even kill the kids because they will alert the adults and you and TONS of other people will die if you don't.

On the other hand, if you kill the tiefling kids, that's wrong... in most scenarios anyway. Why? They aren't trying to kill you unless you are doing something bad - again, generally. There are actually a few scenarios where they do try to kill you, and as mentioned on other threads it's dumb that you can't defend yourself against even kids who are trying to get you killed.

So no. I don't agree with being evil in video games. I actually think there shouldn't ever be an "evil" path in games because to me it's kinda a bit messed up. I know their pixels and not people, but I absolutely do not feel good about it. I don't even really like the killing of goblin kids and think they should remove that too, but that's a WHOLE other topic.

So again, please stop bringing that up in this thread. This is about sex scenes in the game. It is not about the other questionable elements.

And, in terms of sex, I'm not saying dress Mizora up in whatever you said. The harpies aren't dressed up, but they also aren't totally naked either. They are borderline for me, but they aren't a "I'm going to stop playing the game" thing. Same with the current sex scenes and the bugbear and ogre scene. Why? I know where they are, how to trigger them, and I can avoid them.

What I'm saying is that if they start shoving naked and topless women at my character out of nowhere, or having more crude scenes where I walk in on people doing it, it will most certainly ruin this game for me. Either don't do it, or please give me a way to censor it so I can enjoy the game too.

Oh, a fan of the ancient Jewish fantasy book. Bible is full of nonsense, and also it's pretty low quality fantasy by today standards that works only on illiterate people. Thankfully, we live in educated times. So, please, go away with your totalitarian religious views.

Guys, please be respectful when discussing stuff; and let's keep RL religion and politics out of the discussion, nothing good ever comes of it.

Sigh. Let's just get back to the point of the thread. Shall we? And can we be civil? That's really not called for, and I would expect more from someone who believes they are living "in educated times".

The topic is SEX in this game. It is not violence nor about killing children, etc. That has been discussed on other threads, and that was really the point of my last post. Let's not get into the whole violence topic because as you can see in my last post, we can very quickly veer into a whole new realm of conversation.

This topic - sex in BG3 - is very important to me because it can very easily ruin the game for me and prevent me from finishing it. Plain and simple. It has nothing to do with me trying to force my beliefs on others. It has nothing to do with me trying to ruin BG3 for others. It is simply me telling Larian that I am very worried that they will ruin the game for me and others like me.

Especially after this last update, I am stoked. I want to see Jaheira and Minsc again. I want to finish Act 1 and see the other acts. I am invested in the characters, their stories, etc. I WANT to finish this game, and I want to play through it multiple times.

But if Larian isn't careful, and they don't care about fans like me, they could easily ruin the game for us. If they focus too much on sex, and not enough of more important elements such as mechanics and story and things with more substance than one minute sex scenes, this game is going to tank. THAT was my point about Star Wars. Star Wars almost died as a franchise because of 8 and 9, severing ties with long-time fans who became absolutely disgusted by the direction Disney took. Disney took up the franchise and didn't handle it with care. They just regurgitated the originals, slapped a new paint job on it, did some weird crap with it, and it took a serious hit.

What saved Disney was Mandalorian and other shows like it. Don't believe me? Have you noticed? Disney isn't really producing anymore material for the sequels? Where are more stories about Rey and Poe and Finn? They don't exist because fans are not happy with them. They hate them. They don't want anymore stories about them because they were carelessly done. There was a total lack of respect for them.

THAT is also what I'm afraid of for BG3. Larian is picking up the reigns of a beloved game series and beloved world - Forgotten Realms. They need to handle it with care and not focus too much on 1 minute to 2 minute sex scenes. Focus on the mechanics. Focus on the story. Focus on things with substance that will create longevity for the game and series. IF you're going to have sex in a game, it should be the spice - the extra flavor. It should not be something they inundate us with. (And though I say that, I in no way approve of sex at all in a game. I'm merely saying that IF you are going to include it, it should be a minor feature and not something they focus too much on.)

Instead of giving GM4Him a hard time for being Christian, maybe engage with the topic in good faith...

He doesn't want content in the game to be locked away from him with the explicit depiction of sex, his reason for not wanting to see it are his own, but hardly unheard of. I suspect he doesn't have a problem with the depiction of sex in art. It sounds more like a franchise that was important to him as a younger fellow is now being turned into something else, something he can't engage with the same way he did then.

Unless you want to continue to argue about whether or not the depiction of sex has any place in a video game; tell him he's being unreasonable, that there should be a way to sanitize the rating for people who want it, or agree with him that it has no place in the Baldur's Gate franchise.

I don't agree with him on this, I don't think the sex is separate from the story, and I don't think it or nudity is out of place in the the setting. Baldur's Gate is going to be a story with people having sex, so far none of it is compulsory, and who knows if refusing to participate will even lock you out of content.

Just out of curiosity GM4Him, do you refrain from watching movies that have sex scenes in them? Or is it just the supposed shift within a franchise that you find off-putting. As for Star Wars, the sequels are floundering because they couldn't tell a coherent story with them, when you tell a good story you can do anything you want.

Thats sort of the problem... DnD isnt a guided themepark, while yes alot of things can be handled in certain ways, but DnD at its core is full of very nasty things, even beings that feed of sexual energies... And being inside a Fantasy world is just that, a fantasy world, even more so when its done for adults... the whole points for alot of us that we want to experience the good, the evil, and all its forms and uggliness, i dont want it sullied or changed based one "modern" norms, its not a cristan world, its a DnD fantasy world...

And to turn the reasoning he says that certain things should be the spice, the icing on the cake, that can be aplied to bascialy everything, since we all have views we care about more or less, but in this case, he is asking Larian to program a fantasy world to adhere to his modern cristian beliefs... and i think thats wrong, cristians dont have more right to fantasy then others, and if everyone would ask larian to mind their pet pevees, then none of us will get anything...

Its a Fantasy, written for adults, let it remain so in all its good, evil and succubusness... and nothing of it is real !

Let's be clear. What I want is a Baldur's Gate with more of a Star Wars adventure feel. No sex, nudity, etc. Just good, clean adventure with some solid drama and romance. A perfect example would be KOTOR. The story and game were wonderful and sex was not needed, nor nudity. Shoot. You still had some hints of naughtiness, such as the droid and owner relationship and you could also romance Carth or Bastilla, etc. Fade to black. It was rewarding story and game and romance without the need for anything more.

Now. That's what I WANT.

What do I expect from BG3? I fully understand it is Mature. I almost didn't buy it for that reason. However, because it is Baldur's Gate and D&D 5e, and I really loved Lae'zel's concept from the beginning, I went ahead and got it. I have bought Mature games before that said they had sexual content, but they were good about it. I could avoid it. Hoping BG3 was the same, I took the risk.

I in no way expect anything from them. Really. Nothing. I figure they're going to make the game however they want and they probably don't care THAT much about what I think.

What do I hope for from Larian? That maybe they'll hear some of us who don't want to stumble upon a bunch of naughty scenes while trying to adventure in the 3rd installment of the series, and maybe... Just maybe... Let me have a fade to black option so I CAN have romance that is more like KOTOR. There are fans who don't want sex scenes but want romance. I'm hoping they'll give that to us. There are also fans who want adventure without running into topless hookers or demons or whatever naked things devs COULD throw into the game. I'm also hoping they give that to us - the adventure and not the other.

There is a tasteful way to do things, even a succubus seducing a person. It doesn't have to be super raunchy. So even if some scene is super vital but also sexual, you don't need to make it soft porn. Leave things to the imagination. Sometimes that is even more effective.

And yes. I absolutely refrain from watching movies that have sex scenes in them, but it ALSO is the shift within a franchise that I don't like. I played BG1 and 2 and SOD. I had a romance with the Captain lady in SOD. My character chose to sleep with her at the end. Never once did I see a naked person, there was no sex scenes or even sex noises. I played them all with 0 issue, and I enjoyed them tremendously. My character later romanced Jaheira, and the same was true. It was pure adventure because that was the focus.

Think of it like this. Star Wars originally did so well because Mom and Dad could take their kids to see it. The movies didn't exclude anyone. Now imagine if they had a steamy sex scenes or two between Han and Leia. Do you think they'd have done so well? No. Why? They would have immediately excluded a large part of their potential audience.

BG1 and 2 could be played by anyone. BG3 will exclude people simply because of sexual content. Guaranteed. Keep the sex content in the background and able to be parent locked and you exclude no one. Plain and simple.

Where was I not civil? For calling things what they are? So, as you said, let's avoid acceptable by your standard role-playing of murder hobo topic (which you can play for 150 hours non-stop) and get exclusively to "unacceptable" by your standard sex topic, which happens for few seconds in the cut scene only if you optionally romance certain characters. Such a huge focus on sex... yeah, the whole minute of a cut scene in 100 hours full walk-through.

First of all, calling the sex scene in this game a porn is already completely wrong. Either the OP doesn't understand the meaning of the word or deliberately twisting it. The word porn means "a prostitute" in Latin and the whole definition of porn movie is the a prostitute is getting paid to have sex so others can watch it. How does it relates to the BG3? It does not, question about cartoon porn closed.

Secondly, the whole "sex is bad" attitude. Sex is as bad as eating, drinking, shitting and so on. It's not only a natural activity of every human but any species in general. Sex is a mean to procreate and a goal in life of any specimen is to find a suitable pair by whatever means available, have sex, and produce next generation preferably successful to do the same later. Any deviations from this strategy cause the extinction of a person who failed to do that.

Then you go on a rant, by some reason, about Star Wars, which failure is not related to the topic whatsoever. It failed because of bad writing, not because of presence or absence of sex. So far writing in this game is fine if you don't deep dive into the evil path, which was inconsistent last time I checked.

Well, he has two options: either stop lying to himself that sex is bad and the second option is to avoid playing games like BG3. I'm pretty sure that he's just a hypocrite like most religious people and will be playing the game anyway even if Larian adds 10 minutes of non-stop sex in it. If he's a real honest prude then he will be in such minuscule minority that it won't reflect on the game well-being in any way.

I'm not religious at all but that is the definition of being uncivil by making it personal and insulting people who hold such beliefs. Contrary to your line about educated times, I would argue that we are actually living through one of the stupidest times in Human history but that's another discussion for another forum.


Firstly, we don't live in Ancient Rome so nobody is conversing in Latin these days. Dictionary definition of Pornography:
1: the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement
2: material (such as books or a photograph) that depicts erotic behavior and is intended to cause sexual excitement
3: the depiction of acts in a sensational manner so as to arouse a quick intense emotional reaction

Literally nobody in this thread has said sex is bad, though thanks for the Biology lesson, I'm sure none of us were aware of what procreation is until now. May I suggest reading people's posts properly because it seems that you are misunderstanding those who oppose the idea of graphic sex in BG3.

Yea, the whole point of a Fantasy world for alot of us, is we want to be supriced, we want to be chocked, like any book, movie, regardless of theme, its a escape, and we want to be thrilled... If i get lost in the deaph forest, and stumbles on a nymph, or a incubus, i want it in my face,i want it to be thrilled... IF larian inserted a warning sign, if you are cristian please go left by the big oak, to avoid next adult themed scene... its just absurd... talk about a turn off, and runing the whole experience...
This whole things is just absurd, more so, when nothing of it being real, and advertised as fantasy for adults... the problem isnt that is fantasy in all its forms, the problem is some not being able to handle it as such !

If you look to the title of this entire post... Larian is accused of cartoon porn, and well everything is cartoonish, couse it isnt real... its all fantasy, regardless of what it depict... allow Fantasy to be fantasy, if some cant handle unreal things, maybe they should leave it to those that actually want a DnD Fantasy world with all its cartoonish things...

I really don’t believe these is any issue with people seeing a naked female breast. Those with reservations are talking about graphic sex, not seeing a naked nymph.

It sort of sounds like you are hoping for a sexual encounter with these ‘erotic’ creatures should you see them on your adventures?

Thats up to Larian to decide, what im hoping is that larian keep making a fantasy game for adults, that uses the grafical advances unhinged, be it, good, evil, violence, gore, horror or sexually natured... couse regardles what Larian choose to do, it is just that its fantasy and its not real... as i said, in earlier post -> -"the problem isnt that is fantasy in all its forms, the problem is some not being able to handle it as such !"

PS i suggest you actually read the thread, you have a person in this thread that cant handle the "shed with ogres(?)" and or the night in the camp scene, that if anything is a kiss or some skin... and again, it isnt real !

I love that these types of video games are becoming more open-minded when it comes to sex. Like why are people ok with the violence and killing and murder, but lose their mind when we see some bare flesh,,, a breast or a buttock. 🤣🤣🤣 Give me some Game of Thrones! No really, I've watched chef GoT with friends, family, mom, niece. No issues, no qualms. It's natural. Why the fuss? The Minthara scene didn't bother me at all. It was quite erotic and I liked it. In fact, I was really glad that they decided to be that explicit. I eagerly anticipate my fun time with Wyll! 😋

Sure, that's easy enough to explain. I am not really ok with glorification of the violence and killing and murder, however, fantasy worlds, like that of Forgottem Realms, has made them more agreeable. From what I understand about Forgottem Realms, it is rather similar to the world Tolkien created - meaning it has living personifications of good and evil. Elfs are good and that is that, and orcs are evil and that is that. Removing evil makes things better, therefore killing orcs is not only acceptable, but a good thing to do. On top of that, stories have a long tradition of personify concepts - so presenting characters in a physical conflict, while focusing on ideologies that drive them. A simple example of that would be superhero stories, were villains are usually dark reflections of the hero - so while there is a physical conflict between the characters, a good superhero story will focus on what drives and divide them. Even in that simple narrative, reducing the story to "two guys punching each other" would be reductive. That's is really the space classic BG1&2 were occupying.

I haven't really seen no such "different world" rules for sex in the world of BG, nor a narrative significance behind it. As such I am much less OK with them, as the game and the world did no attempt to decouple the ingame act, from its real world moral connotations, or justify their inclusion. Of course, I have to stress that what I have seen are only two romance scenes - Minthara and Shadowheart. Shadowheart was fine so far, though clunky and awkard and Minthara's was part of an absolutely attrocious evil path - not in terms of "mature content" but how poorly it was put together. In that regard Larian is living up to Bioware legacy, as they always struggled to make decent non-good paths. So it is possible that in the end my dislike for Minthara sex scene, is just part of a larger problem of evil path being rather shit.

I would also want to stress that I don't mean to say that there is no place for a more deconstructionist approach. I dislike R rated comic stuff, which add R rated content, without changing anything else, but stuff like Alan Moore's "Watchman" (I know, an easy example) is great. In fantasy RPG terms Dragon Age:O attempted something similar, with mixed result IMO, and so did Pillars of Eternity and to some extend Witchers. Baldur's Gate3, however, so far offers no spin on traditional fantasy tropes, nor commentary on traditional hero stories, doesn't create a more grounded worlds. Some call it "adult fantasy" but it is really not shaping like that so far. What I have seen is very basic story, filled with characters with a very shallow emotional depth. It just has more violence, cursing and sex but otherwise, mature it is not.

There is a wonderful quote by James Gunn after Deadpool was released: "... over the next few months... you'll see Holywood misunderstanding the lessons they should be learning with Deadpool. They'll be green lighting films 'like Deadpool' - but, by that, they won't mean 'good and original' but 'a raunchy superhero film' or 'it breaks the fourth wall.'" We have also seen TV shows attempt to emulate GoT success by stripping other IPs of their identity, desperately trying to create GoT knockoffs. That is what Larian is doing in my eyes, looking at Dragon Ages and Witchers and wanting to emulate their success, and not asking why they succeeded, or how they can create their own good game - they just take and strip bits of those, use strong IP and stitch them to their D:OS formula hoping for the same impact. Couple pages back some defended Larian as artists, but coherent and confident artistic direction is what this game desperately lacks.

As to why the focus on sex, but not the other two? At this point censoring violence and cursing would take quite a bit of work, as they are tied to gameplay and narrative content of BG3. Sex scenes aren't - they already seem to contribute little to nothing. Some pointed out that one can skip it without issues, which very much highlights the problem - they ARE disposable. And to be clear, I am not really that invested in having sex scenes removed - they are pretty low on my priority list. If I find them embarrasing, I will skip them. But one can point out how crappy they are - both in execution and concept.

It seems like this game just isn't for some of you.

This isn't some bible camp it’s DnD the forgotten realms a very raunchy setting if you are familiar with the source material this game is built from.

Making 15 pages begging for them to change the game into something its not and is never going to be seems like a giant waste of energy to me.

There are plenty of PG rated games out there.

Well said @Wormerine
To add on to this, at it's core D&D is a combat simulator. The overwhelming majority of mechanics are built for combat. You can't make a D&D video game while censoring violence; that would basically defeat the whole point. (Okay, you could, but it'd be so different from the D&D experience that it might as well be something entirely different. Insert "play a different tabletop system" comments here.)

Sex scenes, however, aren't core D&D mechanics, or even necessary features of the playing in the Forgotten Realms. Even nudity isn't a necessary feature, as nymphs/succubi/etc don't need to be in any specific campaign. So it's reasonable to think that a D&D game won't have explicit sex in it. At the very least, requesting a fade-to-black option is really not that much of an ask.

I interesting claim. As someone who played most major D&D and non-D&D cRPGs, and Baldur’s Gate series specifically I would be willing to call bullshit on that. But maybe you are right, maybe computer adaptations have been sanitised up to this point. Let’s see… D&D starter set… 12+ rating, just like your usual D&D cRPG. How… expected.

D&D has always taken greater inspiration from Conan the Barbarian and other pulp fantasy stories than Lord of the Rings. It's not Christian. It was explicitly the target of a smear campaign by Christians. I'm glad Larian is leaning into its roots and making a fantasy world that actually feels real. If I were thrown into this scenario and thought I could die any minute and was given the opportunity to hook up with a hot companion, I would absolutely do it in a heartbeat, and anyone honest with themselves would as well. The only reason previous generations of games didn't include sex was a combination of graphical limitations and censorship. We don't need to go backwards in progress when it comes to art. Enough of the Hayes code and Comics Code Authority. If that repells certain ideological segments of the population from playing the game, then good. I want an RPG that will really let me stretch my legs in the kind of content I can enjoy.

The mechanics of D&D deal largely with combat, because everything else can be taken care of with roleplaying. Saying that the sex doesn't contribute to the story is giving it short shrift. To look at it another way, if BG3 glorified violence it would be offensive, and if it used sex solely in a exploitative way, that would be meaningless, but I don't think either of these are the case. I remember Harlan Ellison describing gratuitous violence as violence that happens by rote, someone dies and it hold no meaning for the characters, which conditions the audience to feel the same. Nothing is gratuitous about the sex in Baldur's Gate.

If I have to cite the Random Harlot Table one more time... I can't even post images of some of the stuff you can find in the AD&D manuals because it's NSFW and would likely violate community guidelines. Just because current D&D published material doesn't include more erotic material doesn't mean that has always been the case, nor does it mean that every table is all age appropriate. You can find tons of 18+ groups on Roll20 and other sites. Also did the thought occur to you that the current owners(WotC) might have sanitized some of the materials to make it more marketable? The current CEO also wants to find a way to get microtransactions into D&D like modern video games. More Marketable/All Ages ≠ Better

No pun intended, because of exposure. Mainstream entertainment tropes have been showing graphic violence for many decades more than graphic sex. Outside of streamed networks it has been against the rules/law to even show an erection on TV: going round an 1990s video store the violent movies would be on a top shelf, but porn would have its own sordid little corner. The two themes have been treated by (dominantly Western) society on entirely different levels for almost the entirety of their existence, and anything new takes time to become tolerated.

They are actually being very reasonable in stating the difference between what they would like and what they understand is probably going to happen, and asking politely if there can be a way to avoid it. Lumping GM4Him in with the OP who states repeatedly that sex has no place at all in BG3 because it wasn't in BG1 & 2 (it was) or DnD (it is) is neither fair nor productive, and your tone of response was neither enlightened or respectful; and almost expressly designed to get another thread on the topic closed down.

If this was the first in a new series then I would 100% go with this argument. However there will by now be millions of people who grew up with the first two games who will be interested in the sequel to see how the setting and characters have moved on, but whose wants and attitudes have changed from when they were teenagers. Do I think the content of the game should be changed to pander to these people? Absolutely not. Do I think it's worth opening up the game's market to them (and other new players with similar views) by designing the game to modify these scenarios? Absolutely.

For example, have these scenes have a symbol in the dialogue trigger that denotes a sexual content outcome; then have a setting in Options that prevents these dialogue options from appearing. That way adults can self-censor by choosing not to pick them, and can prevent the possibility of triggering them when they are playing with or around people they would rather not expose them to at all. The technology to filter dialogue already exists in the form of Racial and Class tags, and it is already possible to do it dynamically because you can trigger them using Disguise Self to become, for example, a Drow.

That romance wouldent contribute ?... Errr have you played the BG games at all ?... All BG games has since its dawn had Romance mechancis part of the game, as everything else get grafical, so does the Romance mechanic... In BG dident one of the comapnions have a Baby ?... alot of content, is created around the companions for us to enjoy...

Someone at Larian spent alot of time puzzling together all those romance quest lines, and how it also can indirectly and directly entwine with the main story...

The problem with this, is as i tried to explain, the Romance paths is a long line of choises, while one scene is easy to "blank" everything of a choise we make is a pre recorded choises that get spin off effects... and some of these scenes even have aproval up or down depending on our choises... and will be talked of later in follow up responces... and my worry is that when your compromise content and create alterative versions, not only does it take Larian alot of production time to re record alot of alternative scenes and voices, but also you risk that, like cyberpunk, the game eventually deviates from its goal and becomes more or less nothing, since it tried to apease everyone...

Romance paths have been part of all BG games, and like combat, violence, everything gets more grafical...

Or the many many boob armours, or armours that is a armour for a male, and suddenly become a chain mail bikini for a female... its jut those nerdy things that been part of the genere as far back as gary gygax...

I don't really care since I never take up the romance "quests". However, I do agree with the OP that this has no place in the Baldur's Gate franchise. It is really counter to the brand and ethos of the originals, and completely unnecessary. Who is it meant to be for? Is anyone titillated by this, or finds it anything but awkward and cringeworthy? Do us all a favor and get rid of it.

Your of course entiled to your opinion, but the BG games are what they are, thanks to them being written and developed as open minded and free spirited as they been... and as i said earlier, everything gets more grafical, simply couse the tech gets better, and so will everything tied to Romance quest lines, wich been part of BG since the dawn and been part of making BG the cult game it is...

When i see Sven nerd away about BG, i smile and laugh... do you honestly think he will compromise how he have or will make his BG games, they are what they are thanks to its legacy, all included...

I have seen this chart earlier in the thread, but I must admit, I am not sure what it proves, but it might be my lack of experience with the table-top speaking. I never questioned harlot's existance in D&D, BG1&2 had them. I will trust you on the images, though.


You are again conflating romances with explicit sex scenes. Stop that. The quoted above is just pure nonesense. First of all I would like you to introduce you to a small IP called Fallout. Original game was made around the same time as Baldur's Gate, were also isometric and released by the same publisher, but is a 18+ rated games. Bioware's choice to make BG games playable by teens was intentional - it is a simple hero story almost every one can enjoy. Even the silly gib animation was a toggle (which I tend to keep off, funnily enough to make the game more immersive). Also by your logic, few games would be rated below 18 if tech advancements were responsible for game's rating.


I don't think the quote really captures the heart of the matter, as it seems to refer to the existance of a violent act in the narrative, but not its depiction. How something is depicted has an impact on meaning - it can change the scene from comedic slapstic to horror, it can make something seem repuslive or desirable. I mentioned Watchman, so I will continue using it as example. The comic has sex and violence and uses it to show how unheroic it's characters are. None of it's mature content is indulged in, as it is not meant to be entertaning. Watchman film, however, does the opposite being a very gory film, and glorifying its violence and sex. It's message is completely opposite to the source material. The comic is a deconstruction of a superhero story. The film, is just an R rated superhero story - in other words, it is just an unpleasant to watch usual superhero story and would loose nothing by not being R rated.

Most stuff is allowed here provided it has some genuinely valid context and isn't simply gratuitous; as ever, common sense is a useful guide.

Going back to some posts the previous page, what isn't allowed includes insults and so on, so a reminder to knock it off, please. Talking of age-appropriate, I'm sure we're all grown-up enough to be above that sort of thing. If it continues, some people may have an enforced holiday.

No im not... a person want to make a change and expressed his displeasure of that things get more grafical... and yes they are getting and are portrayed more grafical... but that is done across the board, EVERYTHING is more grafical... so as stated and as the complained been, their upset couse certain scenes related to romance is grafical... yes of course their grafical, that is again couse the advancement of the tech... chopping people with a sword is significantly more grafical in how it shows violence...

So again what was once pixely combat is now more grafical... what was once pixely romance, is now more grafical... and most of all its not REAL, its part of a fantasy setting for adults... if people acctually treated it as such and stopped trying to make it real, it be less of a deal... pixels i still pixels, grafical or not... and that goes back to what i stated earlier...

this is the core of the problem... -"the problem isnt that it is grafical fantasy in all its forms, the problem is some not being able to handle it as fantasy !"

If you are cringing to human body then your parents raised you very poorly. BG always had sex and romance quests. Look like you have no knowledge of the franchise and it is you who do not belong to the franchise. Bye-bye. Something tells me that you'll be playing it in any case because such opinions are usually expressed by hypocrites because you need to actively choose to have these sexual options to have them.

A mod literally just said to knock off the insults and the very next post, you insult a user, just because they have a different opinion than you.

This would actually be an interesting topic if it were less toxic.

Guys, we can have difrent opinions and thats fine... but lets not get personal... debate, argue, but keep it civil... and this just enforces my and what the MOD said, when people try to bring realism, politics and religion into fantasy games, shit happens... let fantasy be fantasy... and i cant state this enough -"the problem isnt that it is fantasy in all its forms, the problem is some not being able to handle it as such !"

I'm fine with different opinions as long as they do not promote restriction and censorship.

Don't tell me that, let's say, having a racist opinion is fine because it's just an opinion.

It's a bit different, if a person asks for the option (read: the option) to turn on fade to black. Comparing that to racism is just ... weird?
Option means, you still can enjoy your full nudity and hardcore sex , so I don't see the harm.
Plus streamers will probably be thankful for that option.

Can you point me to the scene in BG1 or 2 where saw a blow job please? I seriously can’t believe anyone would draw a comparison between the romance or presence of sex in previous BG games to what will apparently be in BG3. There is a difference between alluding to something as opposed to visually depicting it.

And its still not real, its pixels, grafially more advanced pixels, but still pixels, and EVERYTHING is more grafical since BG1 and BG2... when you see a blowjob, then my question to you is, do you think you see a actual blowjob ?, my counter question be when you see someone chop of someones head in a video game, do you think thats real ?... and this is the core of the problem, as these games evolve everything gets more grafical... but that still doesnt make anything of it more real, its still fantasy, and we can run around murder people, torture people, see penises, and other nude things, and its all grafical, couse the tech has adanvaced, but the mere fact we can run around doing all these things, is couse its a fantasy, we are allowed to chads, or whenshes, or what ever we want... no one is going to treat what happens in the game as something real... couse it isnt, so stop trying to treat it as such...

And as for your question, show me in BG1 and BG2 grafical violence as in BG3 ?, i can asure you that if you add together the grafical violence has increased exponentially more then the few grafical romance scenes... everything is more grafical... and its still NOT real

Again --------> -"the problem isnt that it is fantasy in all its forms, the problem is some not being able to handle it as such !"

Everyone knows the game isn't real, so you can stop with your assumption that I think of it as real. Frankly, I have no idea why you drew that conclusion.

Bowing out respectfully, I really have no desire to listen to discuss this anymore.

This thread is really turning into a mess, but before it gets closed, I'd just like to say that I'm still very much in favour of a fade-to-black option for those that want it, mostly for streamers, but also for people who just don't want that.

But if you think that DnD is not suffering from the same kind of media sanitising effect that is causing movies and games to remove guns, blood and all sexual references so they can be marketed to a younger audience, then you are very mistaken. Hasbro is firmly on the child-friendly train, and in late 2021 most references to sexual content, including the presence of brothels, was quietly errata-ed out of all the current DnD sourcebooks. While any sourcebooks you bought before then will have this content, it won't be in the reprinted editions, nor on dndbeyond (which is quickly becoming Hasbro's primary focus for distribution). There really wasn't a lot of sexual or sexual-adjacent content in these books to begin with, certainly not enough to be objectionable, but it got removed anyway.

In a way, I'm happy that Larian decided to go full steam ahead with their sex scenes. I've already seen online groups criticise the game for it's adult content, but I'd be interested to know if they are copping flak from Hasbro reps.

Your every post is strawman arguments. Are you aware that BG2 was made more than 20 years ago and graphics had serious limitations then? And there is nothing wrong with visually depicting sex.

That person didn't ask for options, he said that sex doesn't have place in the BG franchise. And comparing that with racism is the most appropriate one. One claims that having a different skin colour, which is natural to humans, is bad. Another claims that a natural human activity like sex is bad.

Then this is the 1 billion dollar question, if you know it isnt real... what is the problem ?... what happened in BG1 wasent real, exactly as it wasent in BG2 and now in BG3 it is all a story a fantasy that depict everything from heaven and hell and inbetween... but as the the years gone by everything in these games get more grafical... every single thing... and the problem this entire thread has, that no matter how your reasoning is, it eludes to some not being able to treat certain things as fantasy, and start to adress it as something real...

So again, you say it is to grafical, oki... then i ask you is it a to grafical fantasy ?... no matter how we keep this logic chain, we end up at, its to grafical couse some think its real... and there is the problem... and sorry, if you cant destiguise between fantasy and whats real, and the borders start to get erased, i personaly think we might have problem... let fantasy be fantasy, grafical fantasy or not...

That isnt the games problem, as its written for a audience that is adult and *cough* should be able to understand, a penis in a video game isnt more real then murdering someone in same vedeogame, and its exactly the same level of not being real, regardless how grafically pixely it becomes... ultimatly there is no spoon Penis

Let me put it another way. If you do not care about whether or not you insult a person - you can look at what you are doing from a different perspective. What are you trying to achieve? That people you are talking with change their opinions? To promote your point of view? Then you achieve nothing. I actually agree with you about religion, but your attempts to persuade other people are futile at best. If you actually want to make other people listen - it is necessary to speak respectfully. It will be actually beneficial for you in the end.

Throughout this thread you seem to be repeating the same point about improved graphic capabilities in Baldur's Gate 3. I am interpreting your argument to be that because video game graphics are improving, it makes sense for romance, violence, etc. to be shown more explicitly. In this argument you are making the assumption that older games did not show sex due to graphics limitations instead of a fade to black being an intentional decision by the writers.

All cutscenes should serve a purpose. They should be communicating something about the player, the companions, the world, etc. However, the sex scenes in Baldur’s Gate communicate very little that was not already covered in previous scenes. This lack of purpose is compounded with the issue of them being poorly animated and choreographed, making the end product hilarious.

Oftentimes in violence or sex scenes you don’t need to be shown anything explicit in order to understand more about the characters/world/whatever. Take this scene:
I don’t know if this is still in the current game but I’m using it as an example anyways because it illustrates my point. All of the major hits to the tiefling are not shown on camera. After he goes down (with a little tiny splash of blood) the hits to him are shown off camera. The parts of his body that would be disfigured/broken (his head) are covered by the foliage. This is still a violent scene but the writers/animators were intentional in how they conveyed this moment. Players do not need to see someone’s disfigured face to understand the gravity of what just happened. Just like how players don’t need to see Minthara blowjob to understand that drow are sexy or whatever. I don’t actually know what the writers are trying to communicate in the Minthara sex scene besides that drow are sexy and Minthara should step on them.

Anyways what I’m trying to say is no matter how good the graphics, there is often no need for explicit sex scenes as they very rarely communicate anything meaningful about the characters or story. If sex scenes started including important character moments then maybe it’d be different.

Aurora, I think your point is taken by everyone. This is true that people in our society are much more accustomed to violence than to sex. It is weird, but it is true. You can not change this by repeating your points over and over. They are valid, but it does not change people's feeling. A lot of people actually complained not about the fact this game has explicit scenes, but about their quality. So, everything became more graphical, but not graphical enough. This game pushes boundaries, and I have seen a lot of people who are excited about it, even if Larian makes it clumsy. I am happy to see that other people like you also believe in Larian and are ready to give them a chance, but this does not mean the same argument about graphics and the fact that it is not real can persuade everyone. Not at this point in humanities time, at least

If you just keep silent when the opinions about restricting freedom of expression are being pushed then you'll run into the effect, which cause devs having an impression that "community wants us to make such restrictions and we're making games for them". This is how the whole "vocal minority with agenda works".

So your answer to that is to just scream louder?

The fact that it's not real doesn't matter at all. Some people don't enjoy depictions of sex. Maybeit makes them uncomfortable, maybe they think it just looks dumb, maybe they think it doesn't fit the tone of the rest of the game. But your fixation on 'it's not real so what's the problem?' is a weird hill to die on. Furthermore, the game and the things that appear on screen are meant to make us feel things. Maybe it's meant to make us feel entertained, happy, sad, engaged, and a plethora of other things. If we take your argument to its natural conclusion then we shouldn't be feeling anything by playing this game because none of it's real. If you accept that the game and its graphics can make us feel things, then you also have to accept that it can make people feel uncomfortable. Your point that things look more graphic because technology is growing higher-fidelity is a reasonable one, but that still doesn't account for the difference in acknowledging that sex exists and your character maybe has it and actual hard core sex scenes. There is in fact a qualitative difference there. You can argue about how much that difference matters, but it exists.

Also maybe it's just me, but I've never played a game and thought it was better for having hardcore sex in it. I've played Witcher 1 and 2 and the sex scenes there were well done, but honestly I wouldn't have cared if they were removed entirely and I'm always feeling emotionally distant from those who do care about it. Just in general, I don't enjoy explicit sex in media that I'm not coming to for explicit sex. I never got into game of thrones because the violence and hopelessness always put me off, but I do read a series called the Dresden Files, and sex scenes show up there infrequently. And I always just skim past them because they feel like intrusions keeping me from the stuff I actually care about. I do get the principle of it, and I frankly think that as a society we actually should be more okay with sexuality and less okay with violence than we are, but I can't get emotionally invested in any desire for explicit sex in stuff. I think being more comfortable with discussing and touching on it is positive, and being more comfortable with the naked body and being able to accept it as not inherently sexual is something I also think is important. But actual explicit sex? Eh. I don't want it if I'm not looking for it. It's like tomato in a burger for me. Obviously it should be available for people who like it, but when it just comes with the burger then I have to go to the trouble of pulling it out so I can enjoy the good part.

And just to bring up another thing that's been sort of in my head for a little while. I don't really expect the sex scenes to add even theoretical value the game. I can understand the mechanical aspects of what a sex scene can add to a narrative, in terms of character development, ect, but I don't really think Larian's storytelling is at a level where they actually could include sex with genuine maturity and narrative purpose. There are some devs I think could manage it, but I would not put Larian even close to that list.

Please, point me out what screaming exactly you're referring to?

The point still stands, a pixel is still a pixel no matter how grafical it is... What is DnD, what is roleplaying, its a escape into a fantasy... the world of BG1 if you read about it, its full of really uggly nasty things, you have rasism, slavery, whores, secual slavery, hell you even have magical collars that dominate you do somenes every whim... and all this vile and uggly stuffs, is there couse in many cases its there for the adventures, you and me, to fight...

And all BG1 games often set up moral dilemmmas, or as Cohh said in one of his play choises, i dont want to do any of these... so a story is limited in scope to Larian, ability to code it, and also how they can mediate this with its mediums... and yes the grafics has during the ages vastly aproved and all these moral things will evolve across the line, everything will get more grafical... EVERYTHNG....

But to go back to all these horrible things, their there to create choises... If you want to be a Hero/Heroine, there need to be horrible things to fight, and or temptaions to battle...and Larian have done this across the board, they dont shy away from sexual natured things... wich was implemented within the games as romance story line, that often intertwined with the big quest line...

And then many of you say, but they dident show anything, or very little, yea thats true, but everything back then was pixely and dident show anything... it all evolves across the board... wich brings us back to present, the tech is now grafical, you can actually see that a person is nude, vs back in BG1, that is soley couse grafics and tech has advanced, but its still just means to to tell a story, a fantasy, and give it to us... and as i started, alot of these games, is about experiencing a fantasy and deal with it, for good or foor evil... and in this case further a romance tory line, just like back in BG1...

could Larian remove these things, sure could, they could remove rasism as well from the BG verse, and alot of other horrible horrible things, or they could allow us to deal with these non real things, as these Fantasy games was made to be, where nerds is chads in shining armour... and boob armour !

You said that there is a vocal minority that can make devs feel like the community wants the restrictions. Minorities can be vocal, yes. So I asked you - what is your strategy? To scream louder than them?

Thats fair, but if you dont like Adult themed things, then perhaps avoid them, thats sort of the point... But BG generaly has had these things since the dawn of time... Rasism and slavery in all its forms is horrible, should Larian remove these things, despite it exists in the verse ?... couse exactly as some will want or feel that a pixel penis is to much for them to handle, want it "fade to black" it will require alot of work from Larian to filter all possible quests and follow up quests... then we come to next person that dont want Rasism... we have some other that dont want to see chained and enslaved people... and the list would go on... how far should Larian go, rewrite storyline upon story line to accomodate people that in the end has a problem with a pixel getting to lifelike and they have a problem dealing with it IRL...

or you know, we could just let a fantasy for adults be just that...

I'm sorry, but how entitled are you? People suffer in real life from racism every day and you diminish that by using at as a comparison because you are afraid, you don't get your sex scene? Please stop that.
Literally no one said to censor the game, not even the religious guy, people just asked for an option ( you know, what an option is? It means more, not less) for fade to black.
I'm still shocked, that you would use such a comparison, that is really uncalled for.
I'm out, I'm really disgusted.

As I said before - it is true. There were nasty things in previous games. There are such things here. But our society evolved in such a way that seeing pixels that represent a sexual act is disturbing, (For someone, of course) while seeing the brain pushed out of the skull, the torture of a person or slaves being exploited and killed - is not. If this is the most concerning question for you right now - I believe you will not be able to change people's minds. But there is a chance that Larian will. So let us just wait and see on statistics after a game release.

And once again - there are not a lot of people on this thread who criticized the fact of sexual scenes, but who did not like their quality and lack of choices. So, if you have something to say about it - it will be much more productive, on my opinion.

No one is screaming, are you having comprehension problems? If you keep using loaded words, we have nothing to talk about.

Now you mention racism, I actually have argued that thus far Larian's use of racism has been very surface level and at times just immature. The tiefling situation has the possibility to develop into something deeper, but we'll have to wait and see there. Then there are the racist comments bandied about. For me the Dragon Age series is the high water mark for an actually mature fantasy video game setting that approaches racism thoughtfully by acknowledging how horrible it is and giving our character opportunities to react to it. Nothing in Early Access has, in my opinion, approached the level of genuine maturity and grit that the city elf origin in Dragon Age origins had. If Larian is just going to 'have racism' because 'mature' and not because they have something to say about it or do with it, then they're probably better off not having it at all, in fact. Because right now despite being for adults, it doesn't have anything deeper to say about racism than 'racism bad'. What does it have to say about sex and sexual dynamics that lets it earn that mature rating?

You insulted different people, and it looked like a trie to be heard. It did not look like an attempt to persuade. You said there are vocal people whose opinions can be heard by developers, and it seems like you are trying to have more voice than them. What do you want to call it? Listen, I am trying to speak with you respectfully, but you do not make it easier.

Wow, a fallacious manipulative answer. Sorry, doesn't work on me. Please, be disgusted, you won't be missed.

The events of the chapter 1 doesn't provide a real opportunity to depict racism problems properly in-depth. But I'm all for proper representation in the Baldur's Gate city chapters. Regarding other games, I think, the Witcher's depiction of the problem is better and more believable than in the Dragon Age (but I only played Origins). However, this is off-topic regarding the thread theme.

True, and thanks for staying debating in a civil manner... think that needs to be said, you can opose each other and still be civil, even if we try to sloughter each others arguments ;P

Personally i think Larian keeps and adds these things, couse it is their style to let us wrestle with uncomfterble choises, and doing so within a medium where its no real, is what these fantasy setting is for... and my objection isnt that i dont understand, this can be hard for some, its couse its a constant problem that invades more and more games, that beside them being adult, and has these things, the producers is asked to accomodate peoples special needs, the problem is when you start to stack requests you get into a zone that, i and those like me risk loosing the orginal version, or the production time as a whole gets prolonged...

And ultimaly we all have our pet pevess, the risk is we end up with something bland, that no ones is happy about...so as i say, let Larian make their adult game, in all its uncomfterble way, couse even if i guess that amount of sexual scenes not be that many, and most of them you could probably avoid, sure there is allways the risk of that suprice inkubuss encounter, and aprantly that dangling not real pixel penis...

I think people need to be more open minded, and see this for what it is, and try avoid dragging their real life values into the game, it never end well, this thread included... grafical pixels no matter what it is...

its a alpha, i pesonally think we will see alot of things improve, the quality of pixel penises or pixel chopping of heads is the least of my worry ;P. my worry is that we still have uncomferble choises we get the game, and its not just a carebear sanctuary where no uncomvterble is allowed... and hopefully this year ;P

Your assumption is wrong. Now, please, stay on topic, which is appropriateness of the sex scenes in the game and not my methods of delivering information.

OP, I really don't understand If:

A) you find sex repulsive and want less of it in romances
B) you find sex with near strangers repulsive/disapprove of casual sex before a relationship
C) you disapprove of the sex positions
D) you think the game is too limited in animation for it to be erotic

I can't say I have ever found a scene in any game to be erotic. Literally never. However, I'm also a big fan of skipping them. On the one hand, I do understand the direction of your complaint personally, but... I don't think there's any fixing it.

Since it's unfixable, they may as well give it their best shot for the people who like that sort of thing.

I think your insults say more about your upbringing than mine.


This is a fallacious argument - not all "natural human activities" need to be portrayed in game. We don't have to stop for our characters to take a poo, and certainly wouldn't want to see it in all its 3d-rendered glory, even though it is completely natural. There is a time and place for everything, and it would be nice to handle private romantic encounters with a little more taste.

So having a sexual intercourse is as tasteful and important of a life event as taking a poo for you?

I'm pretty sure this thread isn't going to go anywhere beyond this. We're not arguing about whether there should be a streamer mode that blurs some of the naughty bits for TOS reasons, since it's likely that was always intended to be in the game, but whether it should be in the game at all, and the only people who want it removed are motivated by a disgust response, which is entirely a reactionary one and unworthy of consideration. If that's the line they draw as to whether or not they'll play the game, then I hope they don't play at all. The game will be better for it, and succeed without them.

Not true. Some of us don't want it in the game because we don't think it's necessary, the animation and choreography is cringe, the scenes won't accurately reflect personalities we have for our Tavs, and/or the money spent on animating these scenes could be better spent elsewhere. Plus likely other reasons I didn't mention.

My upbringing could have been better but not for the reasons you think.

If your sexual experience in life and romantic life is as enjoyable as taking a poo then please accept my condolences to you.

Cringe is a disgust response.

I agree that the questions, generalized, are good ones.

"How much should we invest into sex scenes?"

"Why do we invest in sex scenes?"

"What is the purpose of sex scenes?"

However... Q1) effort has already been invested, Q2) was determined from the start (flavour), and Q3) is really very, very philosophical.

And being philosophical, what we get out of it is more questions. Questions that don't have definitive answers. Currently, we may /complain/, but... That's going to get ignored, isn't it. People don't go out wanting to push boundaries and then get upset over a reaction. Best case scenario: Larian works on improving the animation

The question of tasteful porn is even more difficult, because If we are to preserve flavour... There might just be a hard BDSM scene instead of 69ing. Who decides what's more or less correct in bed?

Animation quality is judgeable. But is "correct" sex?

1.) I said "and/or," so people could feel one or more of the other reasons I gave.
2.) Cringing at the animation and choreography is different than the disgust at the sex being shown at all; the latter is what most people ITT are referring to when using that word. Did you mean something different?

Edit:
I mean, this is the feedback section of the forums, so it's the right place for complaining. Theoretically, with 7 months until the release date, Larian might still take account our feedback. Hopefully they at least look at this thread (and all others) and take it account when considering further changes to the game before release.

Sweet Lord! I'm fairly certain there must be an interpretation disconnect or something. I literally said multiple times that all I'm really hoping for is this:. there should be a streamer mode that blurs some of the naughty bits for TOS reasons...

I even said for streaming purposes. Yes. I want it for personal reasons, but also for streaming. Of course I'd PREFER none of it at all, but that's just my preference.

Whenever this comes up, as it generally will any time a thread on this topic is raised, I always feel the need to bring up the ironic point that Larian have indeed taken time and energy to 3d render, shoot dramatic close-ups on and record scenes of poo, and of npcs attempting to bully our characters into smearing it all over our own faces - complete with detailed narration and description... So before you say "We don't...", it's necessary to pause for a moment and just uncomfortably absorb the fact that Larian does. Larian ran past that road marker a long time ago.


That is all, do continue your debate, and please remember to play nice with one another ^.^

To be fair, when people say "This shouldn't be in the game." and "This is a waste of budget", it isn't the same statement as "I hope there's a streamer option for those who don't want to see it." I have no issue with that. But any aspect of the game is a theoretical waste of budget. High fidelity graphics is a waste of budget. You can make good games with lofi lopoly graphics. voiced dialogue is a waste of budget. you can make a good game with text dialogue only. class and race choices are a waste of budget. Plenty of good RPGs force you to play 1 character. Anything the devs deliberately put into the game is where the budget is meant to go. Anything that's cut in development is things the devs can't do due to whatever limitation. If the existence of content in a game is a reason for someone to not play it, even if it's optional, then I don't care about them, because everything shouldn't be for everyone, and that content might appeal to others who deserve to have a game that caters to their interests.

Third time's the charm, hopefully: stop insulting each other. Please. Before anyone else gets suspended/banned and I lock the topic for good.

Oh God, you are right! Whyyyyyyyyyy

Nah. In polish I would describe it as “zażenowanie”, which the best translation I can find is: “vicarious embarrassment”.

The original meaning of cringe is consistent with an extreme disgust response.

Oxford dictionairy: (on the verb)
1. to recoil in distaste

The new Gen Z meaning is any embarrassing thing ever

(On the adjective)
3. so embarrassing, awkward, etc. as to cause one to cringe : CRINGEWORTHY

Noteworthy: by Merriam-Webster, cringe can be sourced from disgust, embarrassment or fear

But I basically said "This shouldn't be in the game." and "This is a waste of budget", and if I don't get that then Larian please at least give me "a streamer option for those who don't want to see it.". It wasn't "This shouldn't be in the game." and "This is a waste of budget", and "Larian. You have no right to have sex scenes and vulgarity in this game."

This is EA, Swagnar. We're supposed to give our personal feedback and suggestions of what we want in the game. I'm not trying to create a totalitarian dictatorship military regime here. I'm just stating what I personally want. You may not care about me and my opinion, but honestly that doesn't matter. Larian is who we're suggesting things to, and that's what I'm doing. I want this thread to stay alive because I want others who feel similarly to me to post here and give their support to some sort of streaming option to cut the sex and vulgarity from the game or at least blur it or something. The more who want this option, the more potential that I get it so if they do add more sex and vulgarity I can still play the game.

I’m talking about the forgotten realms dnd tabletop game setting that was creates by Ed Greenwood not computer games and not whatever 5edition wizards of the coast thing you linked. Nice job attacking a strawman though.

Didn't mean to be the strawman, just felt a need to be snarky after getting accusing of not knowing games that I have been playing for almost 20 years.

I am not quite understanding the differentce - isn't Forgotten Relms D&D (again, clearly not a tabletop player here)? But even so, we ARE talking about computer games and 5th edition as we have a sequel to cRPG Baldur's Gate3 as was created by Bioware allegedly based on D&D 5e. If Larian went for a hard reboot, that's another matter, but BG3 has "3" in the title, and brings back characters (and allegedly more) from the old games. I am not refuting the existance of 18+ rated Forgotten Relms content (I will believe you that it exists, I have no interest in seaking it out), but it is not just a Forgotten Relms game, it is a Baldur's Gate game and a sequel at that.

And even if it wasn't a sequel we can still have a conversation if the content found in the game is beneficial to the overall story, just like we can talk about design decisions.

Forgotten Realms isn't the whole of D&D, as Greyhawk is the original setting, and of course beyond that we also have Dragonlance, Dark Sun, Spelljammer, Eberron, etc(Though you wouldn't know it by modern WotC). The original Baldur's Gate games were based on AD&D 2E.

It also looks like this


Now I don't need to be a rocket surgeon to surmise that you probably couldn't make a half-way decent sex scene with these visuals, though I'm sure they could be somewhat amusing watching tiny naked sprites with vague details alternating between different positions as you watch from your isometric God angle, being able to count the frames of animations between thrusts.

That aside, Baldur's Gate has had romance options since the second installment, and more has been added with the Enhanced Editions. Whether or not romance is beneficial to any story is subjective to the reader, hence why it's *optional*.

Thanks for the explanation.

Well, BG3 can’t make half-decent sex scenes, so nothing really has changed. If Bioware wanted to get edgy they would have, technology be damned. I brought up Fallout earlier that has more mature content then BGs in terms of violence, language and sex. BGs didn’t, because this wasn’t something that story ever called for (speaking in here regarding world as portrayed in BG1&2, not wider forgotten realms media). 18 rated games aren’t a new concept - they were thing back than as well.

Hard disagree. CG porn has gotten to a point where artists who are talented enough can rig very realistic sex animations and program in physiques that make the bodies move fairly naturally, and BG3 is going for a softcore/GoT level of depictions. We're not talking about Virt-A-Mate with full camera controls, looping animations and selectable positions.

Another reason the original Baldur's Gate didn't have sex or nudity, you must understand, was the ability to sell the game, period. I don't know how old you are, but there was a point in time where if you wanted to make sales at all, you had to be able to get your game on a shelf in physical locations, and if you were a developer who was relying on publishers to fund your game development, they expected a return on investment. A game with sex would literally not be sold in stores. Your game would be pulled from shelves, and your company would go bankrupt. The marketplace is no longer like that. You don't have to worry about being able to sell your game in Target to make sales, and the culture taboos around depictions of sex in media are thankfully being eroded. These advances in social progress have been extremely beneficial for many disaffected minority groups, and the fact that we get to romance companions regardless of sex or race is proof of that, when previously games usually were restricted to heteronormative pairings and even restricted romance options from races like dwarves and others.

The inclusion of sex in BG3 is objectively a positive decision.

@Swagner I still see BG3 moving away from Rated T fantasy adventure as fundamentally changing identity of the IP, but I see your reasoning now. Not that I will not count it against BG3 - pairing childish writing and doll-like visuals, with violence, cursing and sex makes for quite a tonal dissonance. If indeed, BG1&2 were saved from careless inclusion of f*** bombs, boobs, and poo than blessed be censorship saving game makers from their own lack of a better judgement.

If you don't like a role-playing game's writing, why are you even playing it? You're clearly in the wrong genre.

You do bring up a good point about how the first two games are able to be played by just about anybody, and the fact that this is the third installment in the series means that it should follow suit.

Part of the reason I brought up Star Wars is because it is a series of stories. Imagine if Disney took over Star Wars and suddenly added pornography to it. The first six movies can be watched by anyone of any age, but suddenly episodes 7 8 and 9 have a bunch of nudity and sex in it.

That is essentially the same thing as what we're talking about with builders Gate 3. You have two games where anyone from any age really could play it. Especially nowadays when kids are playing things like call of duty, playing the first two builders gate games is something that just about anyone would find tame.

So it is reasonable that there are people who are upset by the fact that Baldur's Gate 3 is now including elements that immediately slam the door in the faces of some of its audience. It's just like you said, it would be one thing if they were creating a brand new and fresh game that was not a sequel. But this is not the case.

Swag, please keep a lid on comments that you make with the sole purpose of attacking or jabbing at another poster - If you find yourself being antagonistic in your writing, with no clear purpose or point behind it, then it's better not to respond, or to start over and find something worthwhile to say.

I also think the writing in BG3 is childish and very amateur so far, and I agree with Wormerine that it is one of the contributing factors, along with their other choices, adding up to a lot of tonal dissonance and jarring conflicts of style and atmosphere. Begin critical of one particular entry into a genre is usually a sign that someone enjoys that genre generally speaking.

I think it should be clear by now why I have an interest in a game carrying a Baldur's Gate IP. And if game had no issues with the game, I wouldn't be hanging around the forums, would I.

The things is as i pointed to, even if you remove the more direct intended romance related sex stuff... BG3 will end up mature rated, and that is the simple fact that as the tech has advanced, everything gets more grafical... that nude pixely or scantely dressed, that pixely combat back in BG... and if you just bascially aply same advanced grafics on same models back then, and aply it in BG3... you end up with a extremly more grafical game forsome, and thats not couse Larian want to or put more effort into this... its simply couse everything gets more grafical as the tech has advanced...

And considering the BG verse and all the evil that exist in it... a grafical pixel penis, should be the least of peoples worry... you have evil rituals that sacrifice and damn people to servitude in hell, rasism, slavery, and the list goes on, the mere fact we have things in the verse by its very definition is evil, you ought to think that moral people have more to object to, then a pixel penis thats not real... but hey here we are 19 pages in... still debating... so even if the direct romance(sex) stuff be removed, or blurred you still end up with the plain fact as grafics advance EVERYTHING gets more grafical

The advances of grafics and making things more life like, also makes it harder for people to see things as not real, and subsequently they start to drag real life morals into games, on the basis they cant deal with it... so as i said earlier, the problem isnt the grafics in all its form... its you me and others not being able to treat them as pixels...

PS so many time reading this thread i get this mental image of a pleasure demon/devil or nymph dressed in a burkha, i was going to write something witty and cheeky but, yea lol... im just laughing at it at thispoint !

Cant agree more to what Eye said, be nice to people, but do beat up their arguments...

Seriously, do you get paid per use of the word 'grafical'?

Not that really, truly is my last contribution to this discussion.

i guess i could use difrent fonts and colours, that make it even more grafical ;P

I don't accept the whole "graphics are more realistic, therefore it must be more bloody and gorey and sexual by nature just because the graphics are better" argument. That's just not true. Take Final Fantasy 14 Online. In many ways the graphics are better than BG3 - not all, but in many ways. Yet it is in no way super bloody, gorey, sexual.

There are ways around being outright pornographic and still realistic and true to the lore. You can have a succubus, for example, in a dress that is rather suggestive, have her whispering things into a character's ear that you as a player know is naughty, have her lure said person into a bedroom, shut the door, and lights out. All is true to character and form with zero nakedness, lewdness, and graphic sex.

Pick your poison:

1)
So what you are saying is that characters in BG3 curse, because of high fidelity audio?

2)


3)


4)
Not specifically to Aurora42 but:

Larian has made some weird creative choices. Nuff said. Goodnight.

There's a difference between graphical quality and how explicit a piece of media is. Just because technological advancements have led to improved graphics in video games (or any medium), it doesn't necessarily follow that video games in general, let alone any specific video game series, will be made more explicit.

your missing the point, regardless if its gorey or nude... that pixel representaion in BG, or that more or less nude whore in BG, when we looked at the combat or what ever it was back then, things got "blured" not by the fact Larian wanted that, just couse the pixels couldent show more, if you now aply the advances in grafics, to combat, or that nude whore and show it in BG3... the diffrence to what we can see or experience is alot more , and it has nothing just with blood and violence, it just includes everything...

@Vormerine
And those examples is grainey, and simple compared to what we have to day... and yea, there was some grafics back then, that looked better, but we are not talking about the edge cases, thats a strawman... we are talking about the standard... example go inside BG the game and look at all the sprites and grafics, IN ENGINE, they handle everything on same basis... Larian dident try to single out certain things, they had a form and used that in BG, nothing was singled out and those edged cases couldent be inside the actual engine as we played, couse lol, our computors couldent handle it... what can be handled as standard across the norm, in engine now is a huge diffrence, and they apply it across the board... and again nothing is singled out, its same across EVERYTHING in engine

My point still stands, Larian has never tried to hold things back, or dress it up, no matter how uncomfterble it is, they tried to add it, and aply it as a experience across the board... nothing is singled out, to be more or less what it should, and thats how it should be

wich again proves my point, that nude whore in BG1 in engine, that sprite dident show anything... but if you aply same standard grafics to that nude whore and show it in BG3, it will show a whole lot more... and that has nothing to do with Larian wanting to be more focused to do so, their aplying the grafics at their disposal across the board for averything...

I've lost the plot a little, why are graphics being debated? Are we saying if the sex scenes had more or less graphical fidelity it would affect their rating? We're also dealing with a drastic change in the social mores around video games, the biggest whale in gaming, Grand Theft Auto, spurred a moral panic in 2005 when files for a sex minigame were found in its code, cut to 2013 and one of our main characters is introduced mid-coitus, shortly before murdering his partner's boyfriend (a main character from a previous game no less). That was 'edgy', GTA often plays with the line between exploitation and camp, neither of which I'd accuse BG3 of being yet.

People who think there can't be sex in older games just haven't looked too closely at the modding community. In one of the other myriad threads on this topic, I learned that one of the most popular mods for Neverwinter Nights is A Dance with Rogues, which was created by someone who felt frustrated by the relatively sexless worlds her fantasy games existed in. Now we're getting a game that actually deigns to transgress this topic, and people want to nag it for trying. Ho Hum.

Prostitute in Baldur's Gate. Her name is Quenash.



I somehow don't see her as having to be that much more naked and such if they were to update her model. Based on what I see, she's actually probably more clothed than Aelith in the Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance for PS2.

Now blowup one of the Balors

So, I think what Aurora42 is referring to is this:



So, if this succubus were to be updated with modern graphics she would be very naughty looking.

However, let me point out that she is still not naked. She has something akin to a bikini which though revealing and it would make me uncomfortable, it is not totally naked nor does it still mean that if you updated the graphics she would have to be naked nor does it mean that sex needs to suddenly be displayed on screen with her if you should choose to be seduced by her. An updated version of her would likely look something like this:



Again, not necessarily naked nor having to be explicit sex with her just because of upgrades graphics.

Why do I feel like we're just looking up dirty words in the dictionary. What point is being made here.

I had gotten the impression from conversation that you weren't very familiar with the IP, but it's a moot point. The game is more than 20 years old at this point. It can legally by alcohol in the US. Anyone who played BG3 when they were young is mature enough to deal with an M rated game, and people who aren't old enough probably aren't going back and playing the originals, as they have mechanics that don't jive with modern sensibilities in gameplay.

It is also not necessary that a sequel to a game maintain it's ratings. Jak & Daxter is a perfect example of a game that decided that its sequels be more mature than the original, and became a more compelling series for it. You can call it edgy, but it's far more memorable to a lot of people who the story had a big impact on growing up that if the game had gone in a kiddie direction like the original it couldn't have done.

I think this is where I'm just going to dip out of the argument, because there really is no point in continuing. The game is quite close to being done, and I doubt Larian is going to remove an entire section of content because it makes some people feel "icky". The majority of players in any RPG usually pick the "good path" over the "evil path" simply because doing the evil path makes them feel bad, but that's no reason to remove the choice from the game, and would cheapen the experience if you were forced on rails to play the game one way. Most players likewise will likely pick their favorite companion and enjoy the sex scenes that come with them.

Goodnight.

yea, but you are starting to understand my point. the advances in tech goes across the line... as for the BG1 sprite, its hard to see what Its wearing, if id guess its some kind of loin cloth, ie just a strap of flapping cloth between front legs, rear could or couldent be entirly open, but lets leave that to the imagination, BG1 had its fair share of scantily dressed or near nude sprites... so what im trying to make everyone understand, Larian have no way tried to make anything more "cartoon porn" all they done is evolving and aplying grafics equally across the board...

Then we have the demon/devil/balroq sprite, wich looks entiry nude to me... but again, wich i said before, its hardto eactly tell, but imagine a balroq in all its nude glory with modern grafics ?... thats alot of pixel penis, just saying !

PS, i should add this, and stress, i dont value things one way or anouther, most of all as some also stated in this thread, If it makes sense alow it to be as it should, even if its disturbing, and in some cases it fits with lore and plot... That said, in one of the dream sequences with the devil, i realy liked the well dressed elegant evil, i think that is just as sexy as anything else, in some cases even more... im just against people trying to censor my DnD world, i want the evil and disturbing as i want the good and elegant...

The problem with sex in BG3 is that it was added for the purpose of adding sex to BG3. It has no narrative connection, no cathartic relationship to any of the plot, and is nothing more than digital masturbation. It's a reward for choosing a dialogue path.

One of the oldest axioms in art is "if it doesn't add anything, take it out."

You probably haven't played the game enough then. Minthara, Gale and Astarion sex scenes are directly linked with the plot.

I am thinking about your argument, but that’s what Dragon Ages, or Pillars of Eternity attempted - more mature universes, for more mature audience, new IPs. In case of BG3, I just don’t see what the benefit is of limiting its audience. From the cynical point of view, what you say makes sense - older audience is unlikely to mind 18+ and all the cursing, boobs and poop could attract teenagers to what isn’t exactly “cool” genre to play. Still, the end result I suspect will be a game much less timeless as the originals. The mix of characters like Minsc and Boo, talking squirrels, looney toones push and R rated content will be very grotesque.

Edit. Meh, to end with a I would like to share a video essay, from which I stile James Gunn’s quote couple pages earlier. It revolves around R rated superhero films, which I think is the best parallel to what is happening to BG.

Well... lol trying to apease everyone, and giving all what they want, in many cases end up with no one getting anything, or in some cases they have to compromise their original concept just to be able to fit everything else... i doubt anyone of us have managed to miss what happened to cyber punk, and why you stick to your roots and your core, if the story is good, then most will swallow things they generally dont like...

I get what you're trying to say, but my point is that I do not agree with your point. Just because graphics advance, that is no excuse to suddenly portray things more explicitly.

Take the balor, since we have brought it into this. Did the balrog in LOTR have huge badongadongas? No. But he looked pretty dang real. Monsters like him don't need to be portrayed with genitals even if they are totally nude by nature. Chewbacca the Wookiee was technically naked too, right? Did we need to see his junk? No.

And you're making quite the leap with the succubus too. You're guessing what she's wearing and making assumptions. Maybe she IS wearing a thong, but maybe she isn't. Regardless, that makes no difference. Increase the graphics quality and she's still not naked. She at least has some clothing which makes a HUGE difference for some of BGs audience - myself included. I mean, I don't want to see scantily dressed pixel people period anyway, but I'll put up with them and push through the scene if I have to, but strip them totally naked, and that's a whole different matter.

BUT... Regardless of nudity, this statement is just not true: "Larian have no way tried to make anything more "cartoon porn" all they done is evolving and aplying grafics equally across the board...". The point some of us are trying to make here is that you are taking a big leap here. Increasing graphics in no way suddenly means Larian has to, by default, show characters having sex. It would have actually been easier if they had not depicted those sex scenes at all BECAUSE of the upgrade in graphics.

Back in the BG1 days, it would have been easier to depict people having sex because it was so pixely. Today, they are trying to make everything so realistic and close up that when it glitches even a little it's weird and creepy looking. Even animated kisses look weird.

So upgraded graphics does not suddenly equal "well, guess we gotta show Minthara going down on the MC. We have no choice. Updated graphics demand it.". It is definitely Larian trying to add explicit sex, cartoon porn, deliberately to the game to try to increase sales. It's has nothing to do with applying updated graphics across the board.

I don't understand your point. Yes, better graphics doesn't always implies being more explicit, but sometimes it does. Look at Doom, GTA or Metal Gear, they evolved from their primitive origins and added explicit violence or nudity. Those franchises have never been more popular. Sometimes you have to accept that the world isn't centered around you.

actually its probably not for the purpose of increasing sales, its mostly because this was the sensibility of the game they wanted to make. its not like all adult games sell better than non adult games. Its just a case of this creator wanted to create this type of experience.

20 years ago was a different society, games had a different audience, and different expectations and people had a different culture. Its interesting because many of the things you mention show that before they unrealistically ignore things to match the cultural sensibilities. There is no realistic reason you don't see the balrogs sex organs, its just that society would feel uncomfortable. Previously they might tell the same stories, but obscure parts of it, just to match the culture. That hasn't changed, the culture has simply changed.


That said, Instead of trying to make a claim about what is artistic, realistic, or moral. The best argument imo would be allowing people to set the game rating, so that users can avoid these racy things if they prefer. Its valid to acknowledge different players have different levels of what they want in entertainment.

Wow. I in no way think the world evolves around me. Where did you get that from anything I've said?

Sigh.

Ok. Here's my point: The bottom line of all this back and forth is that there are a lot of people who just want porn displayed in the game, and there are a lot of people who don't. All the arguments given are just excuses. Nothing more and nothing less. Better graphics do not in any way dictate that a game needs porn. People are only using updated graphics as an excuse because they just plain want it.

But, adding porn does isolate the audience because now all those who don't like it may not buy the game. Period.

Taking into account your own arguments that would mean that if they did not include it people who want it would be isolated and might not buy the game. It's a loose-loose scenario you painted here.

As someone who's played lots of video games they shouldn't have as a kid:

1) I always skipped the sex scenes. Look, teenagers know sex exist. We were not all a fan of it, but it doesn't give them psychic damage.

2) my parents have never forbidden me a game on the basis of optional sex scenes... and I don't know of any other who did, either. This is not what parents worry about.

3) as far as I can tell, the intended excluded audience is 7-13 year olds and 14-16 year olds respecting content ratings (a rare breed indeed).

There is no chance in hell Bg3 will lose profit on basis of having sex scenes. Let's be real here.

If people don't buy the game because there is no explicit sex scenes, then the game must suck. A well written, well designed game does not need sex to sell it.

So it is not lose lose unless the game is literally relying on sex to sell, in which case, the game is crap and won't survive. Why? Because people who want porn in a game will still likely buy a good RPG that doesn't have sex, but people who don't like porn and don't want it in their games will struggle internally about buying a game with porn in it even if the game is good.

I know you do not demand its removal, and your personal position is really respectful and compromising to others, but I would still like to criticize our last points.

What you described is an extremely good recipe for cultural stagnation, when companies are too afraid of scaring customers so they always play it safe. But yes, I, for example, would buy BG3 without gore and nudity, as I bought POE 1,2 Tyranny, DOS games. But there is still a chance to increase sales not because of "porn" as you name it or gore, but because there are people who probably will be appealed by the game that does not treat them as sensitive kids, who start feeling discomfort when seeing gore or nudity. There are also people who would want to see a more believable game that does not hide its disturbing edges. I heard people saying that all of this does not contribute to the story or world, but it does, and it is done in Game of Thrones or Witcher for a reason.

They don't show sex to sell the game, although sex does sell, as does violence.

They show it because it's there, and you can choose not to partake in it, like you can avoid killing everyone in your path, but the option is there.

The sex scenes do not force you into anything, you don't have to romance anyone, you don't have to change your favorite role play style.

Some characters will be more weird than others.

Naming it cartoon porn is your own interpretation of it.

Porn is fully about sex, a scene in the game does not constitute the whole game, nor does the game revolve around it.

I can't speak for Metal Gear but Doom and GTA both had mature content in them. Aurora's claim is that visual fidelity, not game's content, dictates age rating, which is just factually not true.


I don't think anyone claims that entirety of Baldur's Gate3 is porn, but that as part of it romances it displays pornographic cutscenes. I do think it is a fair assesment (though I am purely judging it on the basis on Minthara scene, having seen others). Love scenes can be also have explicit, but the difference would be the focus of the content. If the cutscene focuses on characters, rather then act itself it is a love scene. BG3 sex cutscene does focus on the act, making it pornography.

A more extreme example would be Yakuza games and their very soft-pornographic videos. It doesn't make Yakuza games as a whole a pornography, but they have it in them.

Part of the issue with these threads is that they are long, and people only get parts of the whole Convo. I've said before, if they keep the sex scenes as optional, basically nothing more in your face that you can't avoid, I'm not gonna quit playing the game. I can avoid the sex scenes and finish BG3. Granted, I WISH I could have a romance in the game without necessarily explicit sex scenes, but...

My fear is that they will make the graphic sex unavoidable at some point. Then I won't be able to finish the game.

GTA 1 and 2 do not have any mention or appearance of sex. Metal Gear had no nudity until MGS2 (and come dangerously close with Quiet in MGS5 with the "she breathe through her skin" excuse). Doom is debatable but I'll argue that the added gore between Doom 1 and Doom 2016 is separated by such a giant leap that is qualifies.
I would add The Last of Us to this list. The first episode only had some passing mentions, the second has very graphic and upsetting content.

Knowing Larian i honestly wouldn't worry about that. You are going to be able to have a romance without sex even, it's a big possibility, or at least without anything graphic.

I was mostly replying to the OP :3

Ah yes. The OP... The one who started the ball rolling, stirred people up and dipped. Lol.

But yes. Based on DOS 2 and EA, seems like I'll be fine. Still, now that Full Release is approaching, this thread has gotten me to ponder the possibility that Larian could throw more sex into this game and thus prevent me from playing to the end. So I've been just a tad nervous.

Just jumping back to this (time zones, and many posts)...

This suggestion only tracks in the perfect world scenario you're setting up in order to make the point. It doesn't tack in actual reality. Here's the actual reality:

I'm a modern, mature adult, not a 1% super rich person, and someone who doesn't have an infinite abundance of time to play games, so I have to make choices. I don't have the time to play two games, and I don't have the budget to buy two games - I have to choose which one I want to invest in for the time being. If I, as an adult, buying games for myself, have to choose between a reportedly well written and made game with no adult elements and completely family friendly coverings for everything, OR a similarly well written and made game that caters to adult elements and tastes and contains optional adult content in relation to my character... I am Definitely going to pick the latter to play, over the former.

The point made (to which this was response) about isolation of possible sales going both ways is very much legitimate.

We're still more or less on the same 'side' of this discussion - that being the group who are pushing for appropriate options in the game settings to censor or avoid those sequences if the player wants to, without actually removing or limiting their production. I'd like to be able to tell the game how my various different characters choose to groom and present their squishy bits, so they show up accurately in intimate moments... you'd rather those bits not exist in the game engine at all while you're playing, and we can both get what we want at the same time, if Larian do this right.

I'm also a modern, mature adult, not a 1% super rich person, and someone who doesn't have an infinite abundance of time to play games, so I have to make choices.

If I, as an adult, buying games for myself, have to choose between a reportedly well written and made game with no adult elements and completely family friendly coverings for everything, OR a similarly well written and made game that caters to adult elements and tastes and contains optional adult content in relation to my character... I am Definitely going to pick the former to play, over the latter, and I will likely never pick up the latter because of it's adult content. Not only that, but I will likely tell others that the latter has adult content and they probably shouldn't play it nor should they let their teen kids play it - depending on just how explicit the content is. However, the former will be promoted not only by me but all those I promote it to because it is a good game and one they can play in good conscience along with even their teen kids.

And that's my point. I know numerous people who are this way. Word of mouth promotions or negative criticisms can ruin a game.

But ultimately you are right. We're still more or less on the same 'side' of this discussion - that being the group who are pushing for appropriate options in the game settings to censor or avoid those sequences if the player wants to, without actually removing or limiting their production. I'd like to be able to tell the game how my various different characters choose to groom and present their squishy bits, so they show up accurately in intimate moments... you'd rather those bits not exist in the game engine at all while you're playing, and we can both get what we want at the same time, if Larian do this right.

Repeating back what was just said but from the other side of the argument seems to be a theme of this thread. I don't think it accomplishes anything. You're agreeing with her.

*tongue in cheek* Truly? Would you now? Well, consider me surprised and corrected ^.^ (Might want to swap your 'I's and 'you's I suspect, hehe)

Yeah. Lol. I got used to repeating what others said because for said others - not Niara - I wasn't sure how else to explain what I was saying to them.

I agreed with most of what she said, but not all.


Quite honestly, I've been accused of many things on this forum including that I'm a hypocrite, a liar, a totalitarian, a Puritan, etc.
Whatever. I'm not playing games or trying to be a frustrating jerk here either. I'm really trying to find the middle ground because I really want to finish this game.

I literally wrestled for months with my initial purchase of BG3 BECAUSE of this topic. Because BG3 was advertised as having sex scenes and a mature rating, I literally decided to play Neverwinter Online when EA for BG3 first began. I wanted to play BG3, but I settled for the other because it was clean with no sex or nudity. I also bought Solasta for the same reason.

But BG3 looked so freaking awesome, and I was going crazy because I really wanted to play it. I was even playing through BG1 and 2 and Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2 and Icewind Dale to try to satisfy the itch - a little here and a little there - doing everything I could to NOT buy BG3 and literally all because of the sexual content.

In the end, I caved, hoping and praying the content wouldn't be blatant or too graphical. Thankfully, it wasn't and the naughty scenes were locked behind a definite trigger... Except the bugbear and ogre bit, which was not TOO bad. I mean, I was thoroughly disgusted by the scene, but at least I wasn't seeing them literally doing it and I have never triggered that scene again.

And yes, even now, I fear that EA is where my BG3 adventure will end. No matter how much I have loved it, I will drop it if they throw naked whatever at me with full on penis on screen in some perverted manner, or topless women or explicit sex or stripper bars I have to enter and can't avoid etc.

I almost stopped playing Final Fantasy 7 Remake because of the Honey Bee stuff and Don Corneo, and the original game and KOTOR have ranked Top 2 for most of my adult life.

Anyway, my point is that this is a very serious issue for me, and I'm not alone. Hence there has been numerous people on this forum since EA began who have been very upset by the sex scenes, some PMing me and thanking me for standing up and putting myself out here for ridicule and mockery.

I might be in the absolute 0.5% on this thread and forum, but I'm a part of a much bigger percentage of audience than that outside this thread. You just don't encounter them because they either haven't bought the game or they have but they don't participate in these forums.

But whatever. The point remains as you stated. If they just provide the dang option to censor the game, fade to black, blur out naughty bits, OR something, that would pretty much satisfy a vast majority, including the fan group I fall into.

Visual detailed sex in semi serious RPG video games never works. Never.
Its either badly acted, silly or just plain stupid. There are way better ways to do this without explicitly showing everything.

It work great though in COMEDY setting:
The Leisure Suit Larry games for example.
Duke Nukem 3D (the 90s game, no direct sex scenes but would work great)
Sexy Parodious
God of War (semi-comedy

The ironic thing with BG3 it borderlines on so weird and silly , it turns it into comedy gold. The Witcher 3 also is incredibly funny. The last of us 2 omg...and these are VERY serious games lol.
It just does not work. And Larian is the last company on this planet that could make this work, looking at their previous games.

The way they are implemented RIGHT NOW in the D&D world, I want a <skip sex content> button. Otherwise let me customize my penis and nipples details to my heart's desire, just like for hair styles.

Meanwhile, I'm *deeply* disappointed that they caved in and made the Honey Bee no longer a brothel, in the remake, like it very much is in the original. Needless censorship and pointless sanitisation.

Sorry, I'm off topic, I just thought it was an interesting comparison - you almost dropped it for being too sexy, and I was equally disgusted at the exact same content, because of it being *more* sanitised than the original.

haha, that said FF7 remake really sanitised that part of the story compared to the original. No more group "bath" scene. This is a sequence that could get very soucy if replicated in full HD glory (see, @Aurora42 that's actually a better example of low fidelity sexual content than anything I brought up before. This is where your theory could have applied, not Baldur's Gate1&2).

The entire sequence went well over my innocent head when I played it for the first time, but when I had troubles pushing through Corneo bit, when I played it after Steam release.

Meh, remake was fine, if unnecessarily stretched out at times. I really hated the dancing QTE.

Well, speak for yourself. I think sex scenes in The Witcher 3 and Last of us 2 worked fine.

Tell that to the marketing division of every perfume and aftershave company on the planet...

I find perfume and aftershave commercials baffling honestly. I do not envy the marketting folks who have to put together those campaigns. It feels like they've just gotten weirder and weirder and I can't blame them. I don't know how I would market a smell to people unable to presently smell it.

I think it's just to get it to stick in people's minds, so when you're faced with an entire wall of stuff wondering what to choose you think "oh yeah, I remember that ad, it was pretty cool" which might influence enough people. I'm also reminded of the increasingly surreal cigarette ads (B&H IIRC) between banning them featuring models and being banned altogether and which got people talking; same as the Guinness "weird series" ads from around 30 years back.

I will admit, the Honey Bee QTE in FF7 Remake was absolutely terrible. I barely stomached it, not because it was too much naughtiness but because it was too much cringe.

However, I am surprised that you are upset about them changing it. I mean, it being a brothel made it sleazy and creepy, but the whole thing was one total perverted joke after another even down to the Mukki homosexual hot tub situation. It was my understanding that they were totally making fun of homosexuals with that entire event and implying that Cloud was gang raped by the huge homosexual men - especially Mukki. Everything about it was insulting, even down to Don Corneo's behavior and Cloud being forced to cross-dress (which wasn't done as a sign of respect for cross-dressers but was done to make fun of them). I didn't find it fun at all, and it was the worst part of the game precisely because it was insulting, vile, and stupid. Don Corneo's character was slapstick pervert, reminding me a lot of some of Benny Hill or Monty Python material that totally objectified women and/or made fun of homosexuals. I am SO glad they didn't keep them in the FF7 Remake. Better graphics definitely would have made the scenes even more awful than they were the first time.

So, I agree with Wormerine on this one. "This is a sequence that could get very soucy if replicated in full HD glory (see, @Aurora42 that's actually a better example of low fidelity sexual content than anything I brought up before. This is where your theory could have applied, not Baldur's Gate1&2)." The whole Honey Bee thing could have been REALLY disturbing in FF7 Remake if they'd kept the original material, and it could have been VERY offensive and caused Square Enix all sorts of backlash.

But even still, they didn't ACTUALLY show anything. They implied it, but they didn't show it. Thus, a lot of it just went over younger people's heads precisely because it wasn't shown. There is a HUGE difference between implying sex, rape, etc. and showing it.

But, if you have no idea what the Mukki hot tub situation is, see the script below: