Larian Studios
Posted By: mahe4 Shadowheart's build is totally borked - 08/10/20 03:53 PM
First of all, i really like the companions and their motives and backgrounds so far.
Second, i don't think, that companion builds need to be optimized.

But Shadowheart has one big issue.
She is a Trickster Cleric, which doesn't get heavy armor proficieny, and she has no dexterity to speak of.
So there is no way to give her good AC, unless you get armor proficiency with a feat.

Simple solution would be to give her either 14 dex or heavy armor proficiency. Neither would be extraordinary. For example, wyll is a warlock with proficiency in rapiers, and warlocks can't use rapiers without special training.
since she doesn't have any proficiencies in dex skills, i would just give her heavy armor prof.
trickster cleric already is one of the weaker dnd5e subclasses. heavy armor wouldn't break that at all.
Posted By: Stabbey Re: Shadowheart's build is totally borked - 08/10/20 05:17 PM
That's a pretty fair point.

Interesting your mention of Wyll. Hexblades aren't in the game, or even PHB, but they do get proficiency with Martial weapons, so maybe the intent is to eventually make Wyll a Hexblade.
Posted By: Ectar93 Re: Shadowheart's build is totally borked - 08/10/20 05:22 PM
Why they purposefully screwed her stats like this is beyond me.
Posted By: mahe4 Re: Shadowheart's build is totally borked - 08/10/20 05:57 PM
another possible fix would be to switch str and dex stats and give her proficiency with short swords. that would fit the trickster theme better.
Posted By: ImamSierra Re: Shadowheart's build is totally borked - 08/10/20 06:06 PM
This is the first thing I noticed when finding Shadowheart. I was looking for someone to tank, but my wizard with mage armor has higher AC than her...
Posted By: Bossk_Hogg Re: Shadowheart's build is totally borked - 09/10/20 01:11 AM
She's pretty bad, unless it's for some plot purpose. Perhaps multiclassing her with fighter will make her better? As it stands, it seems she's the ideal one to dump and just run a cleric yourself.
Posted By: Zress Re: Shadowheart's build is totally borked - 09/10/20 01:14 AM
She one time say to another companion that if she wanted to kill them they will never see her coming. lol, and I was like, yeah right with your dex 9?!
She's fine. Is she min-maxed? No. But ater the learning curve, she's doing great.
Posted By: Baraz Re: Shadowheart's build is totally borked - 09/10/20 01:32 AM
I do feel that with her trickster domain, including her buff to stealth, that she should have at least 12 in Dex to fit her concept.

She could use a little tweaking just to be closer to her concept and role-play, in my opinion of course.
I wonder if part of the issue is not everything is in yet?

Wyll is called the Blade of the Frontier and I bet you he was suppose to be a Hexblade.

Maybe Shadowheart suppose to be a different domain that not in yet?
Posted By: kallen420 Re: Shadowheart's build is totally borked - 09/10/20 05:13 AM

Originally Posted by Merry Mayhem
I wonder if part of the issue is not everything is in yet?

Wyll is called the Blade of the Frontier and I bet you he was suppose to be a Hexblade.

Maybe Shadowheart suppose to be a different domain that not in yet?



No, pretty sure he was meant for fiend, considering that he sold his soul to a devil to become famous. Thats definitely a Fiend patron. I see Shadowheart's trickery domain to be as intended as well seeing as who her deity is.
Originally Posted by kallen420

Originally Posted by Merry Mayhem
I wonder if part of the issue is not everything is in yet?

Wyll is called the Blade of the Frontier and I bet you he was suppose to be a Hexblade.

Maybe Shadowheart suppose to be a different domain that not in yet?



No, pretty sure he was meant for fiend, considering that he sold his soul to a devil to become famous. Thats definitely a Fiend patron. I see Shadowheart's trickery domain to be as intended as well seeing as who her deity is.


Right, my mistake, I mean Pact of the Blade, Hexblade is a patron.
Posted By: pavvles Re: Shadowheart's build is totally borked - 09/10/20 05:36 AM
Originally Posted by mahe4
But Shadowheart has one big issue.
She is a Trickster Cleric, which doesn't get heavy armor proficieny, and she has no dexterity to speak of.
So there is no way to give her good AC, unless you get armor proficiency with a feat.

Simple solution would be to give her either 14 dex or heavy armor proficiency. Neither would be extraordinary. For example, wyll is a warlock with proficiency in rapiers, and warlocks can't use rapiers without special training.
since she doesn't have any proficiencies in dex skills, i would just give her heavy armor prof.
trickster cleric already is one of the weaker dnd5e subclasses. heavy armor wouldn't break that at all.


Agreed.
Posted By: Harkmagic Re: Shadowheart's build is totally borked - 09/10/20 05:58 AM
They may be simply intended her to focus on spell casting.
trickery and death are the two domains the adventurers guide to the sword coast reccomends for shar so.. trickery is likely in fact intended and I doubt there's another domain waiting for her.
Originally Posted by Ectar93
Why they purposefully screwed her stats like this is beyond me.


Clerics are hard to build with 27 PB they need a decent wisdom, a decent cha, a decent str, will want a decent Con as you want them to not have a glass jaw losing heavy armor after third edition made things kinda rough. honestly, the easiest solution to this and other issues might be to increase the points buy to 32 and adjust companion stats accordingly
Shadowheart's hair is great, but her wardrobe needs a little attention. Her armour, if you look at her from the rear, as I often do, makes her look "big-assed". If the armour could be slightly tapered by her dress-maker, it would make her look less wide-arsed.

What I have noticed is that, despite her being a cleric and in armour, she absorbs quite a large amount of damage from attacks, too much for my liking.
Posted By: arion Re: Shadowheart's build is totally borked - 09/10/20 06:54 AM
As for ability i'm fine with the fact that the characters have weaknesses, in original BG character design was the same, when they add Feats you can fix most of this. As for the skills they they need return PHB Half-elf with 2skills prof and fix her background issue(Urchin 9dex really?) - because right now seem her skills do not reflect her personality.
Posted By: Slapstick Re: Shadowheart's build is totally borked - 09/10/20 06:54 AM
Originally Posted by BrianDavion
trickery and death are the two domains the adventurers guide to the sword coast reccomends for shar so.. trickery is likely in fact intended and I doubt there's another domain waiting for her.
Originally Posted by Ectar93
Why they purposefully screwed her stats like this is beyond me.


Clerics are hard to build with 27 PB they need a decent wisdom, a decent cha, a decent str, will want a decent Con as you want them to not have a glass jaw losing heavy armor after third edition made things kinda rough. honestly, the easiest solution to this and other issues might be to increase the points buy to 32 and adjust companion stats accordingly


They don't need charisma at all. I would prefer them switching her charisma and dexterity around. It even suits her personality better - she does NOT have 14 charisma wink
Posted By: mahe4 Re: Shadowheart's build is totally borked - 09/10/20 09:01 AM
Originally Posted by BrianDavion
trickery and death are the two domains the adventurers guide to the sword coast reccomends for shar so.. trickery is likely in fact intended and I doubt there's another domain waiting for her.
Originally Posted by Ectar93
Why they purposefully screwed her stats like this is beyond me.


Clerics are hard to build with 27 PB they need a decent wisdom, a decent cha, a decent str, will want a decent Con as you want them to not have a glass jaw losing heavy armor after third edition made things kinda rough. honestly, the easiest solution to this and other issues might be to increase the points buy to 32 and adjust companion stats accordingly


clerics need wisdom to cast their spells.
they maybe need str or dex, if you want them in the front lines.
and they maybe need con, for better concentration.

str, dex and con are more needed, if you want your cleric in the front lines.
since all trickster specific abilities are meant for front line battle, they need those.
at least 14 dex, to be good with medium armor.

i have no idea, where you get that cha requirement from...

as it is, her character doesn't fit the build. she acts like the sneaky type. she is pretty unlikable/distant. that doesn't match her stats at all. i have no idea, why her stats are the way they are.
Posted By: crabsmack Re: Shadowheart's build is totally borked - 09/10/20 04:35 PM
Just want to agree. To those saying she doesn't have to be min-maxed; agreed. Nobody is expecting 16 WIS, 16 DEX, 14 CON or whatever. I am already very appreciative of the fact that all the caster companions have 16 in their casting stat. But if she's going to use medium armor can she at least have 10 or 12 DEX? A negative modifier on AC is very painful. And given how trickery cleric has abilities to enhance sneaking, the fact that she's STR instead of DEX doesn't make sense on multiple levels.
Posted By: Stabbey Re: Shadowheart's build is totally borked - 09/10/20 04:55 PM
Originally Posted by kallen420

No, pretty sure he was meant for fiend, considering that he sold his soul to a devil to become famous. Thats definitely a Fiend patron


I don't see any compelling reason to say that the only patron for Hexblades must be a Shadowfell entity. I could certainly see a Fiend-patron Hexblade. One of my character concepts for pen -and-paper is an Archfey-patron Hexblade.

For further examples, Fjord from Critical Role is a good example, he's a Warlock (Hexblade), Pact of the Blade, and his patron is "Great Old One" not "entity from the Shadowfell".
Posted By: 1varangian Re: Shadowheart's build is totally borked - 09/10/20 05:29 PM
Her armor looks really cool. But it looks like a Breastplate more than a Chain Shirt, which it is mechanically. I'd prefer it as a breastplate so you could use it for longer. Sucks to have cool looking custom armor that gets replaced immediately because it sucks.

And yeah, give her more Dex so she can be tricksy and sneaky in that Breastplate.
Posted By: Demoulius Re: Shadowheart's build is totally borked - 09/10/20 05:50 PM
Her armour does look nice. I confused it for a breastplate at first until I looked at its stats.

Shes not that charismatic but quite deceptive (or rather thats the vibe that im getting from her) and her voicelines and class specialisagion should focus on stealth.

Give more dex and lower her cha. Dont recall the stats but I think I saw someone here say she has 14 cha and 9 dex? If thats ttue just swapping those 2 stat lines could fix her stats to be line with the character.
Posted By: Bossk_Hogg Re: Shadowheart's build is totally borked - 09/10/20 06:10 PM
Originally Posted by RumRunner151
She's fine. Is she min-maxed? No. But ater the learning curve, she's doing great.


She's not "fine". She is supposed to be a front liner, given that we only have 4 people in the party, and is pretty terrible at it, with an AC worse than Gale's. Swapping her Str and Dex and giving her a short sword would help a lot.
yeah she makes no sense as a cleric, honestly. she should be a ranger or a rogue. maybe a bard. but not a cleric...
Posted By: 1varangian Re: Shadowheart's build is totally borked - 09/10/20 06:37 PM
She also needs darker spells than Sacred Flame and Guiding Bolt. Or that dexterity boost and a Crossbow.

How are Cleric spell lists so broad anyway? Shouldn't they be more narrowed down for the deity in question. More of a 5e thing than BG3, I know.
Posted By: Gumbyfan Re: Shadowheart's build is totally borked - 09/10/20 06:42 PM
Let's also consider how ShadowHeart's build is a bit more important than the other companions due to the struction of the early game.
After finding her in front of literally the back door of a dungeon, new players would need to rely on her a bunch to survive that dungeon.
Posted By: Demoulius Re: Shadowheart's build is totally borked - 09/10/20 06:48 PM
Originally Posted by 1varangian
She also needs darker spells than Sacred Flame and Guiding Bolt. Or that dexterity boost and a Crossbow.

How are Cleric spell lists so broad anyway? Shouldn't they be more narrowed down for the deity in question. More of a 5e thing than BG3, I know.

Not really? They have a very wide array of spells and their specialisation offers some flavoured spells that are drawn from other sources like the wizard spell list. 5th ed doesent really restirct players all that much based on alignment or god.
© Larian Studios forums