I went through the first intellect devourer fight and as a DM I think this fight is a bit out of line. The player has two characters who will have around 8-10 HP on the average and the IDs will do enough to kill one of them in two blows. Ranged fire is unreliable, I generally do no more than 3 points of damage with a bow. I beat the fight by running a cleric alongside Blackheart with both using shield of faith and guiding bolt, options that I think surpass what most characters have available at that point in the game.

You suppose to get it as a companion.
But i agree, in case of check failed, it should be already damaged, so player can easily finish it off.

I agree, though my first Intellect Devourer problems began after the ship crashed. There were 3 or 4 of them. They were tearing my party to pieces.

Perhaps there should be an "Easy" mode, where you gain +5 on every die roll. Or "Very Easy" +10! I would like to be able to do a playthrough without saving.

To be fair, Shadowheart says it would be a hard fight and you should avoid them.

That being said, you can stealth by them. You can also stealth kill them, which I've done a lot.

He's talking about the brain monster fight you encounter right after the ship crash and recruiting Shadowheart, not the one you can get as a prologue companion.

I always stealth climb to high ground and range attack them, never had any problems. You can also blow the canister with fire to make it even easier.

It's an odd fight because the best solution is kiting:

01. Rogue, Ranger, and Fighter all have access to Short Bows, and the fire to dip for flame arrows for the first one or two shots.

02. If your Rogue, Ranger or Fighter have two weapons they can fight with, then they can swap to dual wielding when the Intellect Devourers get close, after kiting them for a bit.

03. Cleric, Warlock, and Wizard all have long distance cantrips that do a lot of damage, so you don't have to dip into spells too much.

04. Cleric, Warlock, and Wizard all have long distance spells which do even more, and/or comparable damage to cantrips. depending on what you chose.

05. Wood Elf and Wood Half-Elf characters also have a slight advantage in this first fight because they get extra movement to make sure they kite a bit more effectively.


I actually like this first fight. It's more about thinking about problem solving than just running into it blind, As a massive fan of the first games, most of the best early fights in BG1 in particular were similar. You needed to be a bit cautious without any gear at a low level. And Ranged Weapons (as with real D&D), and Cantrips/Spells are more advantageous to use at the start of a game.

I got lucky and found two Short Swords with my Wood Elf Rogue on the ship before it crashed, so he was able to dip in the fire, shoot twice to kill one, and then swap to two short swords to kill a second weakened Intellect Devourer by himself.

Whereas with my Wood Half-Elf Warlock, it was all about Eldritch Blast (no need really for anything else, as I didn't even have to cast Hex).

I'm going to be building most of the possible characters (while taking notes), but aside from an Intellect Devourer getting a lucky Crit, you should be able to kill them with some combination of kiting and melee fairly easily (no matter what class of character you create).

So if you play BG3 like it's PnP D&D, you'll have a hard time with fights.

Use DOS:2 playstyle and it's much easier.

c puts you into hide. When out of sight, c puts everyone into stealth and does not seem to need a roll for it.

sneak up, making sure everyone have a range attack.

attack from range first while hiding, you'll be attacking with advantage and will get a surprise round.

always try to c before you attack, what I did for ID fight was after attack, fall back so the ID could never close with me and most times could hide before attacking.

other thing you have to remember is being above your target give you advantage so always go for the high ground.

Use the surface effects to your advantage, they can do more damage then the spells and are small AOEs.

using DOS:2 playstyle, I got through the ID fight on my second playthrough without taking a point of damage.

It's a shame they balanced this game around expecting you to play it like DOS:2

I play a lot of P&P D&D (and I DM more than play as a character), I think the engine and gameplay are fine. You can interact with environments (which you can do in PNP/Theater of the Mind), most of the rules have ported over pretty seamlessly so far (the biggest exception being that Mage Hand is for some reason a Concentration Spell now that I've seen).

Also kiting and using the environment aren't just a D.O.S. thing (I've actually never played the Divinity games), most P&P games encourage this kind of thinking about your environment.

So far this has been the single best representation of D&D I've seen in a computer game, so I'm not sure what the fuss you're on about is.

I remembered it being a little challenging on my warlock, but when I rolled up to it on my wood elf ranger he and Shadowheart tore through them. I think I got a lot of lucky rolls as I never seemed to miss a shot with him and Shadowheart kept getting her Sacred Flame off to support. When they got close I swapped to my shortswords and laid into them. I did start the fight at max range of the shortbow, though, which helped immensely.

Did it full stealth with my rogue and shadowheart. I climbed in stealth the upper position and then I started firing sneak attacks and guiding bolts.
Imho the difficulty is fine, the game kinda teaches you to not run straight ahead and search for a different approach and I like it!

I've used a Warlock, Wizard, and Fighter.
The wizard one was even worse, since it's my first playthrough, and I didn't even get to stealth attack them.
But, none encounters a problem when soloing them.

I didn't play Divinity, but I'm using my approach from some DnD campaigns I played or DM'd in the past.
I kite them, kill the one closest to me first using ranged option.

I used sleep with my Wizard.

If mage hand being a concentration spells is the biggest change in rules you've noticed, you haven't been playing around with cantrips and spells very much. Right off the top of my head I can list that they changed firebolt from 1d10 damage to 1d6 plus setting the enemy on fire and creating a fire surface underneath them, which is even more powerful than a simple 1d10 damage, not to mention it will still burn them and create a fire surface even if you miss your attack. Ray of Frost (I believe that's the name) can knock an enemy prone and create an ice surface under them which counts as rough terrain and has a chance to knock them prone when they move over it, and yet again it can do this even if your attack roll misses. Acid Splash has been changed into an AoE attack that reduces AC by 2 which is entirely OP since reducing AC in D&D 5E is not only rather uncommon, but also extremely useful since it makes it a lot easier for attacks to hit. Pretty much any fight can be cheesed just by hitting the enemies with a good acid splash and then letting the warrior go to work.

I'm not saying to remove the surface mechanics entirely, I rather enjoy them and they really add something to the gameplay, but they are created way too easily. Cantrips shouldn't create surfaces when they hit people, only when they are actually aimed at an object or the ground at most. Also, I get that it's more realistic for fire attack to set enemies on fire, but it doesn't do that in D&D 5E for a reason and it should be left that way. Reducing the damage die doesn't really have any effect when the burn damage itself not only make up for the reduction, but actually surpasses it. Combined with the enemy having to move out of the fire surface that was created under them, which does more damage when they move through it, it makes firebolt an amazingly OP attack for a cantrip that can be spammed as much as you want.

Using the environment to your advantage is a great option and extremely useful when your party is outnumbered, but when even simple cantrips change the environment without actually requiring an environmental object such as an oil barrel or some such, it's just too much. If I shot a firebolt at a barrel of alcohol or something I could understand it exploding and making an area of fire to separate the enemies from me or some such, but being able to do basically that exact same thing just by tossing some firebolts at the ground, no matter how flammable it should actually be, is just plain stupid.

OK all good points (and yes I haven't delved into the spells much yet!). Is there a thread where people are discussing this. You are right about Firebolt (just checked it), I wonder why it was changed? Most of this stuff seems to be small amounts of mechanical change to highlight the interactive environments, but that doesn't mean it all couldn't be adjusted back to something closer to Rules As Written in the Players Handbook.

With my first character, as a Warlock I killed them without any problem. Later I made my Ranger and they killed me from one single hit, I did not even save my game! After do it all again and save, they managed to kill my second character (cleric). At the third try I was able to pass them but almost died. Later on, with another character i had no issues, like mir first character. I think this encouter is a little bit unbalanced. If you pass the checks you kill them easy. But if you don't pass it... they slaughter you.

I've done this fight three times: Human fighter, Halfling rogue and Half-elf Cleric. All three times the fight was super easy.

I didn't find this fight hard at all. It's a pretty standard DnD encounter against high HP enemies at low level. If you go in head first you can get overwhelmed. If you proceed carefully and tactically it's a cakewalk.

personally I had my wizard and shadow heart, and just kited the 3 IntDevs out of the shipwreck. 1 eventually cought up and hit me but by then then it was alone and crippled and it went down. it took several tries to come up with this strat because I don't like kiting. but if worked and it felt satisfying and in-character (trickster cleric and teifling wizard)

I did a quick search to see if I was missing something when I first did this encounter and found this thread. And while I did notice that the IDs were nerfed, and did not use their multi-attack + intellect devour, even so the claw attack never hit for less than 7 and as a result was pretty deadly. (BTW, stealth should also not be a viable tactic against IDs since they're effectively blind and can detect the location of any intelligent life 300 feet away, so this is another nerf) I feel the key to this fight is high AC, but unless people are very familiar with DnD, 3 IDs with 40 movement speed, and never seem to hit lower than 7 is going to be rough. I don't know about others but my damage across 4 re-loads averaged between 2-3 against IDs that had 12-15 HP (my eldritch blast never hit above 4, obviously not RNG carried...). Doing the math it will requires at least 12 successful hits on average, for enemies that can kill you in 2. Bottom-line this encounter is definitely do-able, but relies too much on RNG, which IMO this early in the game is just not fun...

I understand the desire for challenge, but I think encounters such as this one is what led people to complain about the DnD rules. I personally think the problem is not the DnD, but the encounter, I am curious to understand the design motivation behind it.

LMAO, O M G. More of the 'it's too difficult' garbage. I am sorry but if Larian is not going to just come and say it, I will: learn to play cause this fight is utter CAKE.

Why would Larian come out and say something that makes them sound like a jerk that doesn't understand that people have different experiences and want different things. Belittling someone for struggling with something that you happen to find easy is incredibly lame.

Glad I made you laugh. I think my point, however, is that after 4 reloads I did L2P, but I am arguing that it is poor design.

If you are getting beat by three damaged intellect devourers and then coming here to let everyone know that that fight is too difficult, you might want to uninstall. Just saying.

I feel like this encounter is designed to teach people about high ground advantage but I also feel like it assumes that you recruit Shadowheart first.

You are expected to click on the tutorial text and then it shows you where you should stand. If you stand where shown, the encounter isn't that difficult as it takes the IDs 2 turns to reach you and you are expected to use Shadowheart's guiding bolt to kill them before they reach you.

Warlock should also be using hex for extra 1d6 damage but no where is that mentioned and hex isn't one of the default spells either which is a separate issue.

Point taken... So humor me. You agree taking 3 enemies that in accordance with the 5E monster manual are balanced against a party of 4 level 2 characters is to difficult for 1-2 level 1 characters, right? But to mitigate that you nerf them by removing 10 of their 21 hitpoints, allow stealth to work (which IMO takes away from the lore since they got no eyes and work by detecting intelligence...), and remove their Intellect Devour. Not being a stranger to DnD, nor knowing what encounters are to follow, do I unload on these 3 nerfed IDs, or do I reload hoping for better rolls, or are you arguing that this fight is not heavily dependent on RNG, and I should just have more prescience on what is to follow?

I personally want to see this game succeed, and I believe it's best chance at doing so is design more closely to the standards in modules (goblins CR1/4, and kobolds CR1/8 sort of thing)...

Might be an L2P on my part with this one with the UI, but on point and agree.

EDIT: re-did the encounter, since I completely missed the tutorial first time around. Game changer, currently playing on a 43 inch monitor, and never even saw them until I read this post. Thanks!

Used this my first run through. Second time out the new group climb/jump was too broken - characters simply got stuck in the terrain, no matter what I tried - even separating them, they were unable to climb or jump there.

Instead I ripped through them with ranged - I have no issue using flaming arrows - the area is already on fire from the crash and they are sufficiently grounded in historic reality that I don't consider them a "cheat" - dip and fire, dip and fire.

Just a general point of order here (i.e. directed at everyone, not just the person quoted).

Please do not start using the phrase or suggestion 'you should uninstall' on these forums. The implication is unhelpful and dismissive, and is rarely, if ever, associated with constructive criticism and good-natured discussion.

It might seem a small point, but it gets my hackles up whenever I see it used. Raising a Moderator's hackles is rarely going to end well.

Message ends.

Us, the first talking brain, I suppose is thought to be your first temp companion (further in the nautiloid ship having it at your side is really useful) that's why it starts with 21 hp and a very powerful attack.

The three spidy brains in the crash site can be defeated by a single player, it requires a bit of strategy because once they arrive close to you they hit hard. So if you have any use enhancing cleric or magic spells (the ones that improve armor class are the better), use the acid grenades that you find in the nautiloid, made use of grease too and acid, and remember that you have to be sure to cover all the area in front of you because the little brainy things are smart enough to avoid the dangerous surface, furthermore use pinning. If you have Shadowhearth and Gale in the party you can use a combo of mage armor and the one that improves your abilities throws.

Sneak and shoot the nautiloid tank with a firebolt or flaming arrow next to one of them and it's an insta-kill to one and most likely kills or severely hurts the remaining two.

When I did my first playthrough with my warlock, I had some problems with them, because I wasn't used to the mechanics yet, since I never played a Divinity game. But now, it's really OK. Like with most fights, you have to think a bit and use your environment (I didn't realize, how important high ground was at first), but it's doable.
Sneaking to the side and using the hight advantage against them really helps a lot.

Oh I did forgot about the nautiloid tank placed there.

For a living brain, they are quite stupid sadly ...
If you manage to lure them on that balcony, where you get high ground, but dont manage to kill them until they reach you on the end ... and THEN you simply jump down ... they just stand there and let you snipe them from safe spot.

It’s a challenge but it’s not that hard - you don’t need to sneak just prep & put shadow heart in front

I've had minimal trouble with this fight myself, despite doing it with ONE character (yep, I handle it before I get anyone else on board).

What I do is simple: I use my bow to shoot them, generally the first shot from stealth, and as they approach, I move backwards, kiting them (and they're always dead before I reach Shadowheart). Of course my Tav does have a few damage bonuses to her bow due to how she's statted out, but it still should be manageable with a bow and one character. I'd say six rounds tops to kill all three for me personally, maybe nine without Tav having an archery damage bonus.

Due to the limited options available the first "monsterbrains" are the most fearsome enemys in the game yeah.

In one playthrough "Us" just oneshotted my character. LeLoL
But when that piece of sh*t is my ally, its hitchance is garbage ooooof course.

Or you could avoid them till you have a bigger party and come back later; That what I did. There are others road, the game isn't a corridor. If you played DOS2, you couldn't miss that there are zone that are too difficult / too hight level for you at first, and you have to come back to it later.

I think the idea is to avoid them by taking high ground and staying out of melee distance. You can try sneaking past them. In terms of RP, since you first saw them and they scattered you could justify prepping yourselves for the fight with bless etc. Utilizing the mechanics of the game such as dipping weapons into fire, using ranged attacks, hopefully if you had a bow and also taking high ground which is conveniently provided to the right. If you choose to get upclose for attacks that is your decision, but if you dont have a fighter or barbarian that wouldnt make much sense. Therefore the only option would be to go up high and travel to the far end of the platform while using ranged attacks. It makes the most sense RP wise to utilize this strategy and by doing so I have never been touched by those creatures. In terms of a D&D setting it would also be effective however if you threw an unseasoned low level adventurer in that situation maybe they wouldnt take the same tactical measures. Although these characters you control are clearly experienced adventurers even though they are only level 1. So I disagree with you.

I chose to play a Githyanki warrior as the trailer suggested intrguing Mindflayer storyline action in Forgotten Realms once again. This player character choice made me unable to recruit Shadowheart as she distrusts and attacks me on cultural bias. I knocked her unconscious as she choses to attack me. Left her for good stripped to the leather bikinis as I wanted to preserve any survivors knowledge she may have. On this choise you can recruit her only after meeting her again in the Druids cove. Which strips you form access to her healing and protectuion spells for this fight, the extra actions and HP pool.

So this can even be won solo easily enough. Stop the whining pls. as there is much harder fights with full team to come.

Ensure to avoid the disadvantage of multiple strong opponents by all means. Avoid anything in your back or side get huge boni. Exploit that for yourself and don't fight stationary when not to your advantage.

I did shoot the short bow and ran several times. One blow finishes the leftovers easily enough when they manage to attack alone close up. No sneaking, shooting barrels, dipping arrows or companion needed for this. Just brute force and footwork did it for e alone. Do whatever the strenght of your character are. I didn't even use sprint to create more space.

I my eyes this fight is intentionally a challenge with an upfront warning to teach you all the depth of D&D tactics available and realize the benfit of seperating enemies before they gang up on you,

In my eyes this fight is amazingly well balanced for anything you throw at it. I needed only a second or third try when my frontal assault and belief in my warriors superiority alone was refuted by the game. So I took the hint at face value,
Turn based RPGs save & reload is a common and unavoidable concept. have no objections to utilize this.

One key concept of D&D is armour class. If your character doesn't bring it along, stay strictly out of close combat and use any spells that helps boost it. Eventuallyyou got to reload due to your boost roll fizzle on low RNG alone here.
Get a feeling for what you armour can or can't do for your HP churn rate against each enemy you meet. Adjust your tactics to it.
It also helps to right click and review for weakness and resistances to adjust weapon sets and tactics.
Concealment and initiative may also be an asset for a skillbased deadly blow opening attack as well as haste, potions, throwing things or any consumables. These are very character specific to learn and explore.

Make sure to adjust you spell choice for the task and rest to memorize them for the day to come.

For a rogue or low level mage this will be a tough solitary fight on low armour class and still missing spells or rolling low on damagea lot. The real questions is, how many player character options do deny you to recruit Shadowheart? None of these choices will not fight this alone due to the Shar affiliation of this cleric being really ideologically flexible apart for dedicated extraplanar mindflayer hunters.

I found a level 1 and 2 Gale being wiped by Goblin bows and area effects way more annoying many times over. There should be a checkbox to auto-cast mage armour when this guy even just get's out of his sleeping bag.
That's where I found the Fog spell not safeguarding and hiding him at all and being entirely useless atm. Some area effect based spellcasting clearly does need further review by Larian.

Trying several tricks and options plus keeping a distance should get you through this one easily enough. No matter what you bring to this brawl.

At least for me this was the motivation for my inquiry. I figured this early on a typical straight up fight will often result in death, so what is the point behind it... I myself was so focused on the center of my screen that I never saw the tutorial for dipping (not found in DnD), and using elevation for advantage (also not standard). Parenthetical is to state, it's not obvious either, don't care if they add house/Larian rules, more power to them. And upon using any of the tactics in the tutorial the encounter becomes significantly easier. So given the fact that there are people struggling, and quite of few using kiting (almost an anti-tactic that takes advantage of poor AI in computer games), perhaps it is still good feedback for Larian on how they present the tutorial.

Running straight into enemies is always a bad idea in any RPG. Starting combat from a good position, going into melee only with high AC and buffing are basic knowledge for any DnD like game.

In theory this fight is a good example for learning to fight, but the game could do better to explain the basics. New players have to learn a lot of things, DnD fans have to learn the differences to PnP and DOS fans know the cheese (barrels, jumping, surfaces) but need to learn DnD basics.
No idea how to make everyone happy. Getting flooded with info you already know is also annoying.

The Nautiloid vessel is a tutorial that allows to understand the mechanics of the combat system. When it crash it's implied that the player understood how things function. In the ship there are brainy legged enemies that if arrive near can easily kill the main character and Laez'el.


On a side note: why so many people take for granted that video players that approach this game now about DnD and its mechanics?

I my self have played a tabletop rpg and it wasn't DnD, it was Vampires the Masquerade. The fantasy video games I played had different, vastly, mechanism than those of games based on DnD so what about just don't assume that people (specially the ones that have problems and ask fo help) know about DnD? Maybe some players bought the game to try a different genre, or as fans of fantasy decided to try a shot with a video game and so on.

Larian needs to do a much better job of explaining how things work, regardless of what system is used. That said, if this game is being sold as a D&D game, it makes sense that folks who are familiar with D&D already should be able to pick things up quickly (which is currently a little bit true, but is hindered by the numerous places in which they have diverged from the D&D ruleset).