Cw: sexual assault

I get what the story is going for with the Astarion camp encounter. I’d just ask you to consider that for some of your players, a companion climbing onto the PC’s body in the middle of the night is violently unpleasant. The dialogue he has afterward is similarly squicky, as he follows up his nonconsensual attempt with minimization and manipulation. Vampires are generally treading in some pretty rapey territory already—but the game is asking me to bring one along for the campaign, and to seriously entertain becoming his bloodbag afterward. I’ve never booted a character from my party in a Bioware-style game before, but I would gladly have killed him on the spot. Knowing that I have to play through this scene again definitely affects my willingness to replay the game.

I’m not even clear on what his plan was—do people usually sleep through someone cutting their neck open?

For people without a similar history, think of it as violence. Anyone trying to remove blood from my body whilst I sleep is going to A) catch these hands and B) be killed or tossed out of the party immediately. It’s difficult for me to imagine many D&D parties where this wouldn’t be true.

This feels like a simple fix, as his vampirism could be introduced through dialogue, through his physical collapse due to blood deprivation, through him draining an animal in the bushes, etc.

I have many problems with this game's approach to romance (and a ridiculously lengthy post in the works), but I would hardly conflate bloodsucking with rape, regardless of the tired "sexy vampire" trope. I think him creeping through the camp at night is a good way to make the "reveal"... but I do wish he didn't have the personality of the most stereotypical meme-y bard.

I take it you weren't showered with indecent proposals from the companions at one moment, as some people were?

NGL i dont care what the post says but its the title for me and the answer is YES!!!!

I posted this to let the creators of the game know how I experienced their story and the effects it had on my willingness to replay, not to debate whether or not a companion drinking my blood is an acceptable trauma trigger

There are other ways to go about this. Trying to eat someone in the party is a bad idea on his part.

He could leave the party for a short time in a populated area and you catch him trying to eat someone else or you could wake up to Astarion passed out from being blood drunk and covered in red in a cutscene on your way out of camp one morning.

Or maybe you wake up in the middle of the night hearing weird noises and find Astarion feeding on an animal near the camp.

So my real main argument here is camp is supposedly the place where you are really going to get that one on one time with your party to learn more about them. Or at least this is how i feel it is currently designed to be.

We learn about wizard guys(forgetting his name) issue in camp, why not learn about this when we come across an artifact he wants to eat.

So the same valid point can be made for Astarion sure we find the boar he eats but we dont exactly know its him. I dont think him leaving the party would work nor the blood drunkness because im honestly not sure what that even means...and how you can tell what even that is.

I think catching him in the act is the best way to find out about his situation. Now i think they could have him munching on a bird when you get back from camp or a boar as he specifically states he feasts on animals, if i recall the dialog correctly. Whatever it is though it needs to happen at the camp in my opinion.

The whole situation is obviously meant to be creepy, and killing him or kicking him out is a perfectly valid response. It does however showcase the need for more companion options, which we are told will be the case.

He's a f.cking vampire. That's what vampires do. He's actually pretty damned restrained for a vampire.

You have the option to throw him out of the party or kill him. Get over it, or don't play the game. This is a game, a narrative art. You are not forced to play it. You don't go around protesting that Romeo and Juliet should be prohibited due to suicide triggers, you just simply should avoid it.
I personally like the NPC because he is a creep, and it is interesting. Interesting to interact with it, to kill him, to throw him out, or even to get to know him. As I presume he will turn at to be a character with more layers. He is a slave to his master, an undead after who knows how many years of suffering and abuse. I can't wait to see his struggle with his nature, his two fold curse. I presume there might be interesting character development on his part during the game. Scratching that because you find it disturbing is not a solution, because with that attitude we could burn all games, movies, books and really any piece of art. If you can't cope with it you should either avoid it or look for professional help, because the purpose of art is to trigger emotions, to make you think... If you can't cope with such a small thing it is not healthy and avoiding it and ignoring it might be a temporary solution for you, but trying to force your avoidance on others definitely not the way.

Get over it, or don't play the game is not at good argument to use on EA game looking for feedback.

The answer to the title is yes. It's part of his charm. I agree that the scene is creepy, but I can't help but love it. The sexy vampire is an old trope, but a successful one nonetheless. While I agree that taking blood without permission is an act that violets the other persons body and trust, Astarion found himself in a pretty desperate situation: he's too weak to hunt animals, but too scared to admit the truth to his companions, which barely know him and might just kill him for what he is.

I'm not trying to justify him - what he did was defiantly wrong on many levels - but if you haven't noticed, Astarion morals are shady at best. He's the bad boy of the group. If you want to kick him out or kill him it's your decision. One of the things that I like about this game is that any decision has сonsequences (especially if you let one of the shady people help you with the tadpole problem).

I think that a possible solution could be catching him feeding on an animal or an enemy. Another option is him collapsing on you because he's too weak from not feeding. Than it would be your decision if you want to let him feed on you, or maybe even hunting an animal for him.

I completely agree.

lol how is providing feedback on a game during early access “forcing your avoidance on others” like how were your rights infringed here bruh

I don't mean to play down the feeling of uncomfort someone else has.

However I want to state that I'm surprised to hear that, because I didn't have that association with him at all. I expected the scene to be what it is: About a vampire draining blood, nothing with a sexual intention. Maybe that's because I was aware he's a vampire beforehand? Would you say that this knowledge would have changed what you instinctly felt at the start of the scene?
If you play through the scene, you also learn that he usually doesn't bite people and does not intend to bite you again (he would instead aim to drain blood of people you fight anyways).

To reply to your concerns and questions specifically:
- By no means does the game require you to recruit Astarion. For a replay, you can just ignore him entirely, never pick him up. I understand your shock due to your personal experience, but I feels it's wrong to accuse Larian of forcing the player to be around him. Ignore him, kill him if that feels true to you: That's all the things BG3 enables you to do.
- The bite isn't necessarily hurtful. You may not have played with him for long enough to know, but you can use his bite inside or outside of battle - and it clearly says it doesn't break stealth. This indicates for me that usually, the drain isn't hurtful - probably barely noticeable. This is in line with the bites of real campires (the bats). Their victims wouldn't wake up from a slumber or similar, because vampires are specilized in not hurting their victims so they have more success.

I agree with you, OP. Not only is it squicky, the encounter is a bit nonsensical. If you accept but don't pass the persuasion checks he ends up killing your character, so if your character didn't wake up to find him creeping in the first place, was his original plan just to feed on one of his allies, at the risk of killing, right in the middle of camp? Though, it's not like anyone jumped to the defense when you spotted him anyway... sleepin on the job :P

Something else I recall when you catch him is that he says something about having to do it this way because he needed your trust? Which doesn't make any sense. I also think it's a good idea if the scene were changed to be the character seeing Astarion sneaking out of camp again (which the camera shows for the boar encounter) and they find him snacking on animals.

Because he's lying and trying to weasel his way out of the situation. That's the character.

Vampires snacking on animals are, in my opinion, not vampires. They're supposed to be extremely creepy. Who fears a vampire that just drinks animal blood? Too much Twilight. Astarion is supposed to inspire discomfort, fear even. Not going to happen snacking on boars.

Oh please, don't be such a sissy. Astarion is an evil character, he doesn't care about you or mutual consent. Just deal with it, its a fantasy game.

And you can actually kill him on the spot. Just attack him in the camp and slaughter him, and be done with it. You have that choice too.

To clear up: He doesn't state he needs the trust of a person to suck their blood. He merely asks you to trust him enough to let him bite you because he is desperate. I think the persuasion roll is not about what he intended to do. I felt like the scene was:
- He truely intends to only get a sip of you
- You (potentially) agree to that
- Against his prior intention, he loses control over himself (Maybe the image of "I'll only eat 5 chips" and ending up eating the whole package helps to get the idea?)
- With the persuation check, you try to make him snap out of his frenzy

The persuation check was a 1 for me, so I wondered why I had to roll at all. But by now I realize your modifiers are countet against the target roll and I had high charisma and proficiency in persuation. Never the less, it's still a low roll that should tighten the idea that he intends to play along, so that's why I considered it "reminding him" rather than "having to convince him" to stop.

I've also noticed that there are several characters who try to kill or enslave my character completely without my consent.

I think he meant to take as much as necessary, but lost control because he was starving.

I thought that the trust thing was strange too. Maybe he meant that he wanted us to get to know him before telling his secret. He didn't mean to get caught, which suggests that if he has enough self control it can go unnoticed.

History = you eluded to it, my advice is to seek help, therapy works and can aid you in recovery. There are many ways to do so a google search will reveal more.

This game is rated M for a reason, it also states what those reasons are. Noone forced you to buy this game, or replay it, devs even state that you don't have to buy it for whatever reason. If you like it then by all means play it. Noone is taking a choice from you, it's on you. There are other options that you can take in replaying, and also on this play through to make Ast a nonissue, killing him is the most obvious for it completely removes him from the game.

Did you kill him there is that option? If your character felt violated then by all means kill him, noone is stopping you. Your choice. Your other companions would probably applaud you, hell most of Faerun would applaud you. There is a reason why this game is rated M for mature, it is a warning and lists what it's warning you about. Again your choice to buy it.

replayability - If Astorian is a problem for you again don't take him, kill him. They ask but don't force you to bring him along. He is there for those that want him, if you kill him you don't have to deal with him again. Again you have the choice, it is your choice, he is but an option.

Manipulation to get what you want - evil so your problem is that he is evil. Then kill him, or kick him.

Nonconsensual taking of blood - again he's a vampire who are often hunted down and killed because of the fact they are vampires. So don't think he's going to be asking nicely, or that any vampire does. Unless they're sparkly and can stand under sunlight.

Cutting open - They don't cut you open, it's like two needles being stabbed into your skin, then it feels good, it's enjoyable, some even become addicted to it. So no cutting open of the skin.

Draining of animals in the bushes etc. - he does. So it is also revealed that way. Yet he is starving, and getting desperate, add to this tadpole situation so he is not thinking clearly from both his own trauma and starvation.

Vampires = are by nature very rapey, not closeish but very. They are also sluts/addicts/ and several other terms I've called them over the years. They will do anything for food, and that food is what courses through most creatures bodies.

Simple fix = In order for him to be a non vampire they would have to completely rewrite hundreds of hours of code, dailogue, character moments. In that one scene there is again hours, upon hours of work put into it. It is not simple, or a quick fix. Most things in games unless the involve a . or # being put in the wrong place is not a simple fix. Indeed finding that eronous . which may be in a line like this

.00000000001 that first . may be instead in this spot 00000000.0001 or this spot 0.0000001 or it may be in <post> r=2 3-d render item *4 Ast scene 3/5 and that line goes on for sixty more characters, buried in hundreds of more code. and then they have to trace it all down, delete it, find where it's linked to other code delete it from there to make sure it's all gone. Note above from <post> to 3/5 is not actual code. but to many code looks like gibberish anyways.

Hi LizNuzz! Nah doesn’t feel like downplaying at all.

Knowing that he’s a vamp beforehand would just make me want a scene where he tries to negotiate his way into the arrangement, because that would be fun, and this way was weird and (as others have pointed out) kinda nonsensical. I think it should be a better scene cuz I actually liked his shtick a lot.

It’s DEF odd to me to hear so many people saying there’s nothing sexual about vampires! It’s a clear theme in Dracula and the Slavic lore it comes from. And to be clear I love vampires and vampire stories. I don’t think this scene was clear in its intentions or execution.

No, knowing that it’s painless doesn’t change anything. Numbing someone out before you do stuff to them in their sleep is uh...still creepy to me. He could be using knockout drugs and syringes and it would still be gross imo.

And like. You change three seconds of dialogue and problem solved. I haven’t seen anything in the above objections that would be significantly changed if he directly confronted the PC or was caught chupacabra’ing a cow.

It would be significantly changed, it would make it easy to be dismissive of the fact that the character is a vampire. He's not a tame pet, he's dangerous, creepy and one should be extremely wary of him no matter his words. This is made clear immediatly in a scene like that.

Homie I smacked him off my neck and he ran out of the camp whining about how unfair it was 😂

No offense but I feel like you're reaching here. Astarion is a vampire. Drinking people's blood is what vampires do. Is it messed up that he was trying to do that while you were sleeping? Yes, but that's the traditional way vampires have always been depicted. As for Astarion, he does apologize and does tell you if you let him drink your blood that in the future he will ask for permission or only feed from animals as he has already been doing. The reason why he wanted to drink your blood is because he was feeling weak but if you let him drink your blood and tell him when to stop so he doesn't kill you, he gets a new power which is pretty useful in battle.

+1

How is describing my reaction to a scene reaching? It’s my experience. Providing feedback is what playtesters do.

Ah, that's fresh I though these gobelin were merely playing with me. Sadly I have the habit of overdoing it when I play with knifes.




You're mixing real life stuff with fantasy stuff and basically trying to censor a part of the game that is already very soft. How about we remove gobelin from the game? I I mean, as Labayu stated, they are actually trying to kill you without your consent. That way worse than drinking a sip of blood.

Nope! I believe this is a reaction that others will have, and that it’s not one that was intended by the writers. It’s a piece of editorial feedback, not censorship—I, an individual player, do not have the power to censor anyone.

We should all give feedback but when it comes to what you are describing, you are accusing a fictional character of "sexual assault." He was trying to drink your fictional character's blood because he's a vampire. As someone who has experienced real life assault. This is ridiculous because it's not the same thing. I personally didn't see it as "sexual assault" but a Vampire trying to suck my character's blood which you can stop by the way. This game is very, very MA. If you are sensitive to extremely mature content, this might not be the game for you. As Larian has stated that there will be a lot of sexual content by the time of full release.

I think it’s totally legit for different survivors to have different reactions to things! Your enjoyment of the scene, and game, are valid.

To be clear, I am an adult human who understands the difference between fictional vampire bites and real-life sexual assault. Where in this post did you think I was stating otherwise?

This is turning into straight up trolling. And I should know.

Because you got offended by a vampire trying to drink someone's blood which is normal in vampire fantasy settings. It's part of the game. If this is a problem then don't recruit Astarion or play a different game in case Larian adds other scenes that might be offensive to you.

The game allows you to kill him for his transgression.
The game is also rated mature and I don't understand why you want to censor this component of the game.

The game also includes, cannibalism, slavery and child murder...
None of them are very nice things and as the player you could do something about it.

So why are you unsatisfied?

I think we can agree that for different people different things might act as a trigger. Some things can bother one person but not the other. There is no need to lash at each other because of contradicting opinions. Both ways of thinking are valid and we do not have to agree on the matter. This is supposed to be a civilized discussion.

To be honest after the initial post and the OP's responses since then I would say this person is just trolling.

I think the OP makes a good point -- I would support some sort of warning and an option to remove Astarian from the game. I had no desire to have the vampire from SoD/BG2EE in my game, period, and there was a (very hard to find) way to ensure that character never showed up.

I haven't had the experiences that the OP has and so I react differently. I want Astarian in my party but I also want to give players options and warnings.

To be fair, I don't think most people (in western countries/ main target group of the game) have a lot of personal experience with cannibalism, slavery, or getting their children killed. Being raped is more common for a female in our society than most people seem to think. If most people were traumatized by war these days, it's likely game developers wouldn't mainly make war ( or other serious fighting) games, because many people wouldn't want to play it. So I don't see the problem in giving feedback to game developers that rape isn't part of an enjoyable game for an audience (that may or may not be larger than you think. After all, if nobody is allowed to complain about it, how are others supposed to express their discomfort?) It's not like OP demanded in a rant they have to change it. I think they were giving pretty neutral feedback, given this is a topic that seems to seriously disturb them.

The point about the maturity rating: This rating merely indicates sex is part of the game. Maturity content is not the same as violent mature content, and therefore the rating isn't exactly telling you if it's content you feel safe with or not.

Final post, and then I’ll let y’all get back to the dogpile 😂

I’m not offended, thx! Nor (obviously) do I have a problem with murderous goblins, M rated games, or the existence of fictional vampires. These all seem like straw-man arguments to me tbh, but let’s pretend they’re real.

Mostly it matters because he’s a companion. I kick him out or kill him and I’m down a rogue, y’all! I think it’s a better game if you have access to all your peeps.

Another difference is in the intent of the scene. After I kicked Astarion out, Gith Lady suggested that I view what happened as equivalent to the other characters’ dark secrets. She was referring to his vampirism, which I could care less about. I didn’t kick dude out for being a vampire, I kicked him out for climbing on me in my sleep, which seems like a normal human reaction the writing didn’t account for.

If the intent of the scene was to force a possible confrontation, and the writers knew they were potentially squicking people out and felt it was worth it, that’s their business. In that case, I would agree that this game isn’t for me and bow out.

But I don’t think the writers took that into account. You could argue that they wouldn’t care about my reaction here, and there’s a 90% chance you’re right! But I see the potential for improvement, and I know for absolute sure that, passionate defenses of goblin atrocities aside, this is exactly the forum to raise such concerns.

How do I know? Because the creators literally asked for it 😂

How you draw a connection between any of this and censorship is beyond me, folks, but the internet is a wild place. Enjoy it!

The problem isn't how many people it offends or not and how many people get triggered by slavery (which I remind you is still very much alive in America).

The problem is just all the nitty gritty stuff including this are optional.
You can punish the offending character and even stop them before they even have a chance.

The game is no forcing you down any road which is amazing.
If it was I would agree with OP but it isn't and it isn't glorifying it.

Giving feedback is fine but lets be consistent and fair.
If you want to be technical about it then this is a biased and inaccurate feedback so the community is calling it out.

+100000000

I meanm you created said dogpile, so it's kind of your fault, isn't it?

This is not rape. This is bloodsucking. Do you feel raped when a syringe take your blood for a medical exam?

Censoring the game because someone gets triggered is going too far. Different people get triggered by different things, If those things were all removed there wouldn't be a game left. Add an additional warning if you must, but it's already there with the M rating.

The scene definitely needs some work, similarly to his introduction scene.

While I only viewed it once, I do recall being disappointed with the lack of dialog options to essentially tell him off. The crux of the issue was the lack of consent, which I could not expressly address, and did not receive an apology for or even an acknowledgment from Astarion.

Why should he apology or acknowledge anything? he is not bound to your main party member by anything but a mutual objective. remember : he tried to kill you in your first encounter, and didn't apology either. Its just the character writing. he doesn't give a damn about you. he doesn't care about the feeling of your main character.

Its just his personnality, the way he is written. See it from a role playing point of view and don't get offended by minor slight like that. If you're still dissatisfied by his behavior, you can still kill him.

I feel like you take everything too personally . Its just a selfish, evil character in a video game.

QFT! 100% this.

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I meanm you created said dogpile, so it's kind of your fault, isn't it?
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This. Exactly this.

I don't remember exactly his position in the scene but if he climbs on top of the pc to bite him/her, that can easily be changed to him reaching for the neck, sitting beside the pc. Such a simple reanimation wouldn't change the narrative but would lessen the trigger for some victims of sexual assault/rape. Which, btw, is an horrible experience and is not something that should EVER be taken lightly on or trivialized, fantasy video game or not.

OP simply gave his/her feedback on a part of the game that didn't feel right. Just like people are discussing other topics that can feel nit picky but that is important to those that raise their voices about those topics.

It's completely unnecessary to call OP a troll or devalue his/her opinion in this matter.

Ofc everyone that liked the scene can argue for it staying as it is but be civilized people. Show that you guys and girls actually learned something from Me too. As someone stated, the game is rated M- for mature. So let's be just that.

I just kill Astarion on sight now. I can't stand his character.

The option to kill him or boot him out of the party is right there. A vampire doing vampire things seem to be pretty spot on target imo.

He's definitely a pompous ass who excuses everything he does. One easy way to get him to apologize for his behavior is to agree to let him suck your blood if he apologizes to you. And when he inevitably scoffs at your request and does a half-assed apology complete with an eye roll, another dialog choice should pop up that allows me to pick, "I need you to mean it." I think it's a great way to still show off his personalty, but also evens the playing field a little bit. They can even go the extra mile and have his responses based on his current approval rating. If he hates your guts he can storm off and get blood elsewhere.

I read the boar as exactly that; he's shifty, and if you pass dice rolls you work out it's been drained of it's blood by two puncture wounds in the next. Pair that with the fact this elf obviously doesn't look like a normal elf, and I saw the midnight snack scene coming like a train with it's horn blaring. If it's not hard coded to be before the midnight snack, it should be to clue players in. It can be tweaked, so he approaches and asks, but that both loses the drama of the scene and (from what I've seen of him in action) undermines Astarian's character.
To say nothing of the character splash on the sight, the live demo earlier this year where sven played as him and the origin option players will be able to click on and read about him.

I'm regret it upsets you and OP, however I'm not sorry this scene plays how it does. The game is rated mature, there are clues to his nature, and as others have said, you can immediately punish him for his attempt. The next time you start the game from the beginning you can 'forget' to recruit him too.