Larian Studios
Posted By: Traycor Climb Skill? - 15/10/20 08:07 PM
The Climb skill has is pretty fundamental, especially when the levels are built ultra vertical. I'm constantly wondering why my rogue can't just climb up things, then lower a rope down for the party members.

The Climb skill should be added. Thoughts?
Posted By: SLOPOrion Re: Climb Skill? - 15/10/20 08:31 PM
Athletics is already a skill, that encompasses Climb, Swim, Jump, etc...

Unless you are talking about a Climb action, like the Jump or Sneak actions
Posted By: Thrythlind Re: Climb Skill? - 15/10/20 08:33 PM
Yeah, 5th edition streamlined a lot of the excess in the skill list. Athletics is your Climb skill.
Posted By: mesmerizedish Re: Climb Skill? - 15/10/20 08:34 PM
In D&D 5e, in the rare instances where climbing would require a check, it's handled by Athletics.
Posted By: FenrisC Re: Climb Skill? - 15/10/20 08:52 PM
Climb should definately be a thing ; there are very frustrating moments when you are on a small cliff, high enough to require a jump, but barely higher than the standard "walkthrough" height, and like no more than the height of your character.

Those areas should be climbable "by default" and not require a jump (wich is odd most of the time btw).


Acrobatics should also got a check test for halving falling damage (I clearly remember there were ability checks for that - at least for not falling prone after a damaging jump - in the 4h demo streaming video from Larian some months ago), but that's another topic.
Otherwise Athletics/Acrobatics are useless ingame as for now...

Posted By: Emrikol Re: Climb Skill? - 15/10/20 08:59 PM
It seems reasonable to suggest that we should be able to climb virtually anything (or attempt to climb, at least), but I suspect it is a coding/resource thing that makes it impractical to implement. Perhaps what are presented with as climbable surfaces should require a skill check to succeed.
Posted By: mpareto Re: Climb Skill? - 15/10/20 09:06 PM
Well, the did do it in Breath of the Wild, and to great success. It's a small detail that adds tremendous value in terms of explorability and options for the player
Posted By: Emrikol Re: Climb Skill? - 15/10/20 09:36 PM
Originally Posted by mpareto
Well, the did do it in Breath of the Wild, and to great success. It's a small detail that adds tremendous value in terms of explorability and options for the player

If you are replying to me, I am not saying they can't do it. I am saying, considering all that they can do and want to do, making everything climbable just might not make the cut.
Posted By: Traycor Re: Climb Skill? - 15/10/20 09:48 PM
Originally Posted by SLOPOrion
Athletics is already a skill, that encompasses Climb, Swim, Jump, etc...

Unless you are talking about a Climb action, like the Jump or Sneak actions


Yes, an action. Currently there is no way to scale a shear surface, or even a brick wall that should very much be climb-able.
Posted By: Eireson Re: Climb Skill? - 15/10/20 10:02 PM
Whilst not requiring a roll I'd like to see climbing ladders etc having a bigger impact on your movement that currently - it should take a lot more to climb a ladder than it does to run across open ground, which at the moment I dont think it does.
Posted By: Traycor Re: Climb Skill? - 15/10/20 10:09 PM
Originally Posted by Eireson
Whilst not requiring a roll I'd like to see climbing ladders etc having a bigger impact on your movement that currently - it should take a lot more to climb a ladder than it does to run across open ground, which at the moment I dont think it does.

Unless you're directly threatened in combat, a ladder shouldn't require a roll. It could be cool to have an Athletics check if you're threatened, with the possibility of either provoking an attack of opportunity on a fail or falling off on a critical fail of 1.
Posted By: Eireson Re: Climb Skill? - 15/10/20 10:15 PM
Alas you cant actually shoot mobs whilst they are on the ladder, they're always either at the top of bottom, would be nice if you could and they did have to make a roll, after all having some shoot an arrow into your arm doesnt tend to make climbing a bit harder.
Posted By: Tomoya Re: Climb Skill? - 15/10/20 10:17 PM
This does bring up another point though. I like the idea of using more tools and items found lying around like rope to solve problems and puzzles. Could be a nice change to simply rolling perception and finding a button or not.

I also think it would be funny to actually role for athletics when you climb and have a chance to slip and fall.
Posted By: Stabbey Re: Climb Skill? - 15/10/20 10:34 PM
Originally Posted by Traycor
Yes, an action. Currently there is no way to scale a shear surface, or even a brick wall that should very much be climb-able.


Of course there isn't, and I would not expect there to be one, because

Originally Posted by Emrikol
I suspect it is a coding/resource thing that makes it impractical to implement.



You also can't swim across the river at the start of the game. Because this is a videogame, not a tabletop game, and there is only so much content which can reasonably go in.
Posted By: Emrikol Re: Climb Skill? - 15/10/20 10:36 PM
Originally Posted by Stabbey

Originally Posted by Emrikol
I suspect it is a coding/resource thing that makes it impractical to implement.

You also can't swim across the river at the start of the game. Because this is a videogame, not a tabletop game, and there is only so much content which can reasonably go in.

I think we agree, right?
Posted By: Traycor Re: Climb Skill? - 16/10/20 12:35 AM
Originally Posted by Stabbey
Originally Posted by Traycor
Yes, an action. Currently there is no way to scale a shear surface, or even a brick wall that should very much be climb-able.


Of course there isn't, and I would not expect there to be one, because

Originally Posted by Emrikol
I suspect it is a coding/resource thing that makes it impractical to implement.



You also can't swim across the river at the start of the game. Because this is a videogame, not a tabletop game, and there is only so much content which can reasonably go in.

Disagree. The game already has ladders and vines you can climb. All climbing would require is another type of "ladder" (an invisible one) that requires a check to use. Bam! climb implemented. If they can place 80 million containers around everywhere, they can put some invisible ladders on walls to make them scaleable.

Swimming in theory could be similar with an invisible bridge for crossing water using a swim animation. However, I'm less concerned about swimming because the game wasn't designed around swim mechanics. The game WAS designed around verticality, so climbing (and ropes) should have been one of the first things they considered. This is also a VERY reasonable request considering the set up of the game's levels.
Posted By: Merry Mayhem Re: Climb Skill? - 16/10/20 12:46 AM
right click on stuff and see if there a climb on option. I found out you can do that with boxes & crates. Guess I'll now have to right climb other stuff to see what you can climb up on.
Posted By: Harkmagic Re: Climb Skill? - 16/10/20 01:21 AM
There are 3 issues with climbing. First is that it makes it much more difficult to define the limits of a space, Invisible walls at the edge of a map become much more obvious. The second is that Larian built a lot of puzzles and secrets into the game. Solving these is supposed to give you a sense of accomplishment. With climbing a lot of that can be bypassed. Third it makes telling a story and scripting encounters much harder as players could bypass important parts with climbing.

Yes climbing is cool, and I would love to have it, but this game was not designed to have it as it would require major changes to map and story design.
Posted By: Traycor Re: Climb Skill? - 16/10/20 01:32 AM
Originally Posted by Harkmagic
There are 3 issues with climbing. First is that it makes it much more difficult to define the limits of a space, Invisible walls at the edge of a map become much more obvious. The second is that Larian built a lot of puzzles and secrets into the game. Solving these is supposed to give you a sense of accomplishment. With climbing a lot of that can be bypassed. Third it makes telling a story and scripting encounters much harder as players could bypass important parts with climbing.

Yes climbing is cool, and I would love to have it, but this game was not designed to have it as it would require major changes to map and story design.

Excellent points. However, not everything needs to climb-able. Just place invisible ladders in key places that allow the Athletics skill to shine. Maybe give some visual clue that lets players know that a particular surface can be climbed. If it breaks a puzzle or bypasses something that should be difficult, then don't add a ladder there.

Realistically, the Persuasion skill should affect every conversation and every dialogue choice, but instead they pick key places to use the skill. Climb can be the same way.
Posted By: Merry Mayhem Re: Climb Skill? - 16/10/20 01:32 AM
Originally Posted by Harkmagic
There are 3 issues with climbing. First is that it makes it much more difficult to define the limits of a space, Invisible walls at the edge of a map become much more obvious. The second is that Larian built a lot of puzzles and secrets into the game. Solving these is supposed to give you a sense of accomplishment. With climbing a lot of that can be bypassed. Third it makes telling a story and scripting encounters much harder as players could bypass important parts with climbing.

Yes climbing is cool, and I would love to have it, but this game was not designed to have it as it would require major changes to map and story design.


counterargument: hopefully we'll get fly as 3rd level spell and that pretty much negates the verticality puzzle reason and stuff. Let the rogue climb.
Posted By: Dastan McKay Re: Climb Skill? - 24/10/20 05:49 PM
Originally Posted by Traycor
The game WAS designed around verticality

If you think about it.
None of the creatures fly. Even ravens and imps just jump far and high.
Spiders don't climb. Even ladders block their way.
So, before having climbable walls, we need a continued vertical axis in game logic. Cause now it just looks like a banch of layers, with some connecting points (aka ladders).
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