Larian Studios
Posted By: sinogy BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 12:56 AM
... and that's why it fails. I mean tis game is trying to be DOS2 + BG + DnD + Witcher 3.

It is a no-brainer that's not gonna work. What Larian should have done was to make a true DnD cRPG which stands on it's own foundations but no this game wanna be like too many games and that's why it doesn't have a strong posture.
I don't see the Witcher 3 parallel other than it being a fantasy game
Posted By: Rhobar121 Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 01:13 AM
I just copy my post from another thread.

Number of game owners according to Steam spy:
-> POE 1 is between 1-2 mln
-> POE 2 is between 500-1mln
-> Pathfinder is between 500-1mln
-> DoS2 is between 2-5mln !!!
The situation is worse if you look at other statistics.
Unfortunately, old school games are not popular.
Only PoE 1 sold over 1 million copies because it was one of the first classic RPGs in this decade. POE 2 sold much worse.


Posted By: Muldeh Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 01:15 AM
That's irrelevant Rhobar. We aren't asking for BG3 to be like any of those games you listed.

(We want it to be more like 5e DnD, which has waaaay more sales than DoS 2)
Posted By: sinogy Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 01:31 AM
Originally Posted by Popsculpture
I don't see the Witcher 3 parallel other than it being a fantasy game



Then you are pretty ignorant about games. The cursed swamp with hag area, the bard NPC, trying to push romance too much into story. The wannabe Witcher 3 is so obvious.
Originally Posted by Rhobar121
I just copy my post from another thread.

Number of game owners according to Steam spy:
-> POE 1 is between 1-2 mln
-> POE 2 is between 500-1mln
-> Pathfinder is between 500-1mln
-> DoS2 is between 2-5mln !!!
The situation is worse if you look at other statistics.
Unfortunately, old school games are not popular.
Only PoE 1 sold over 1 million copies because it was one of the first classic RPGs in this decade. POE 2 sold much worse.




So what? Witcher 3 sold 15 mln and nobody is complaining to CD about decision to put the most successful rpg franchise aside and build a new one from zero.
Larian on the other hand lacks on personality to accept that the DOS era is simply over and move on.
Originally Posted by Popsculpture
I don't see the Witcher 3 parallel other than it being a fantasy game


He was referring to the alchemy bombs :p
Posted By: Madoric Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 01:43 AM
Originally Posted by Popsculpture
I don't see the Witcher 3 parallel other than it being a fantasy game

I think he is referring to every enemy have potion to throw at you, bomb, etc.
Posted By: Rhobar121 Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 01:44 AM
Originally Posted by Muldeh
That's irrelevant Rhobar. We aren't asking for BG3 to be like any of those games you listed.

(We want it to be more like 5e DnD, which has waaaay more sales than DoS 2)



Maybe it's paranoia but every time I see a "true RPG" people mean another game with an infinity engine.
Never mind, the game will never be true D&D as the game requires the simplification of many systems if larian wants to sell the game to players unfamiliar with D&D.
I think they will change few things, but I don't expect that it will be much.
Systems like barrels will be weakened, but I doubt they will remove them.
I don't think D&D purists will be satisfied when they release the full game.




Posted By: Nicottia Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 01:44 AM
You forgot about Dragon Age Origins... the entire camp and approval/disapproval system seems to be heavily inspired by that...
Posted By: Emrikol Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 02:21 AM
Originally Posted by sinogy
... and that's why it fails.

By what criteria? Or by "fails" do you mean it 'fails' to keep your interest or something like that?
Posted By: Evandir Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 02:29 AM
Originally Posted by Emrikol
Originally Posted by sinogy
... and that's why it fails.

By what criteria? Or by "fails" do you mean it 'fails' to keep your interest or something like that?


Right? The game is already a lot of fun and it's not even close to being finished yet.
Originally Posted by sinogy
Originally Posted by Popsculpture
I don't see the Witcher 3 parallel other than it being a fantasy game



Then you are pretty ignorant about games. The cursed swamp with hag area, the bard NPC, trying to push romance too much into story. The wannabe Witcher 3 is so obvious.

And you're calling me Ignorant. Those tropes were around FAAAARRRR before Witcher. Besides Witcher is a loose rip off of Elric of Melniboné and Brothers Grimm Fairy Tales. There's nothing new under the sun.
Posted By: WarBaby2 Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 06:27 AM
Originally Posted by Nicottia
You forgot about Dragon Age Origins... the entire camp and approval/disapproval system seems to be heavily inspired by that...


...as is the "Origin character" concept, without the actual, playable Origins, though, and the cinematic coversations. It almost seams as if Larian is trying to imitate the wrong era of BioWare games. wink
Posted By: Tuco Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 06:39 AM
"Borrowing minor features from other games of the past" =! "Trying to be different games", by the way.
Not to mention some of these analogies are bordering the "reaching at straws" territory.
Posted By: Aurgelmir Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 06:55 AM
Originally Posted by sinogy
... and that's why it fails. I mean tis game is trying to be DOS2 + BG + DnD + Witcher 3.

It is a no-brainer that's not gonna work. What Larian should have done was to make a true DnD cRPG which stands on it's own foundations but no this game wanna be like too many games and that's why it doesn't have a strong posture.


To me it seems this is a sentiment of the "I didn't get what I wanted" crowd.
I've clocked a lot of time in DOS2, and BG3ea. And it's not "trying to be DO2", but it's clearly made by the same team. Odd how companies have a "thing" they like to make.

As for "Trying to be BG", um only in title. You do know that Baldur's Gate is a setting within the Forgotten Realms which is DnD's biggest setting, right? And not only the story of the two PC games has affected this world? Heck Neverwinter Nights and Icewind Dale are also set in this setting. If they had called the game Waterdeep, you wouldn't have a leg to stand on with that argument. It's just the title that puts some people off, which I can understand, but hey I'm sure some people said the same about Fallout 3.

To me this is "The first draft from the makers of DOS2 to make a DnD5e game" and to me it's been working amazingly. Should they change some of the rules in the game to be more like 5e? Yes, of course, not giving everyone cunning actions for instance. But that's exactly why the game is in early access.


Posted By: Nyanko Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 06:58 AM
It's not trying to be too many games. It's a big game which incorporates lots of rpg and tactical battle elements. Did you expect 300+ devs to work on a baldur's gate tetris or something?
Posted By: Kendaric Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 07:45 AM
Originally Posted by sinogy
Originally Posted by Popsculpture
I don't see the Witcher 3 parallel other than it being a fantasy game



Then you are pretty ignorant about games. The cursed swamp with hag area, the bard NPC, trying to push romance too much into story. The wannabe Witcher 3 is so obvious.


A "cursed" swamp with a hag has been part of D&D (and various european myths/fairy tales) forever. By the bard NPC you mean Volo, I assume? Volo has been around in the FR setting since 1st edition AD&D.
Posted By: WarBaby2 Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 07:51 AM
Originally Posted by Kendaric
Originally Posted by sinogy
Originally Posted by Popsculpture
I don't see the Witcher 3 parallel other than it being a fantasy game



Then you are pretty ignorant about games. The cursed swamp with hag area, the bard NPC, trying to push romance too much into story. The wannabe Witcher 3 is so obvious.


A "cursed" swamp with a hag has been part of D&D (and various european myths/fairy tales) forever. By the bard NPC you mean Volo, I assume? Volo has been around in the FR setting since 1st edition AD&D.


This... I really don't see the W3 influence either... also, where is the Witcher "pushing romance"? Geralt's love life and sexuality are simply parts of his character and story, and aside from the juvenile card collecting shenanigans in the first game, not really "pushed" at all.

...but yea, not the topic.
Posted By: Abits Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 08:11 AM
The Witcher games didn't invent anything. Everything about the Witcher 3 is based upon years of Bioware games. By the way, the first major CD project work was actually a translation of BG into polish, and the first Witcher game uses the NeveeWinter Night's engine.
Posted By: WarBaby2 Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 08:14 AM
Originally Posted by Abits
The Witcher games didn't invent anything. Everything about the Witcher 3 is based upon years of Bioware games. By the way, the first major CD project work was actually a translation of BG into polish, and the first Witcher game uses the NeveeWinter Night's engine.


True, but they are still the best in open world action RPGs there is out there, even if they didn't reinvent the wheel or anything.
Posted By: Abits Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 08:20 AM
Originally Posted by WarBaby2
Originally Posted by Abits
The Witcher games didn't invent anything. Everything about the Witcher 3 is based upon years of Bioware games. By the way, the first major CD project work was actually a translation of BG into polish, and the first Witcher game uses the NeveeWinter Night's engine.


True, but they are still the best in open world action RPGs there is out there, even if they didn't reinvent the wheel or anything.

The Witcher 3 is one of the best RPGs of all time. 1 and 2 have great stories ( which the thing I personally care about the most) but have too many other problems to be qualified as great. The Witcher 3 is so awesome mostly because of CD project, but also because CD project knew how to take the best elements of the games that came before it
I have to agree with the comments, I'm not getting a Witcher 3 vibe
Posted By: sinogy Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 10:03 AM
Originally Posted by WarBaby2
Originally Posted by Kendaric
Originally Posted by sinogy
Originally Posted by Popsculpture
I don't see the Witcher 3 parallel other than it being a fantasy game



Then you are pretty ignorant about games. The cursed swamp with hag area, the bard NPC, trying to push romance too much into story. The wannabe Witcher 3 is so obvious.


A "cursed" swamp with a hag has been part of D&D (and various european myths/fairy tales) forever. By the bard NPC you mean Volo, I assume? Volo has been around in the FR setting since 1st edition AD&D.


This... I really don't see the W3 influence either... also, where is the Witcher "pushing romance"? Geralt's love life and sexuality are simply parts of his character and story, and aside from the juvenile card collecting shenanigans in the first game, not really "pushed" at all.

...but yea, not the topic.


"pushing romance" exists in BG3 because it wants to get the same attention W3 got. While romance was an organic and very successful part of W3's story it is not like that in this game.

Do you really think developers took those tropes from some has been games or from the most successful RPG in recent years? Damn man, even the clothing of bard NPC is copied from that of W3. How do you explain that silly clothing of him in BG3? It is so out of touch that not other character's fashion matches it. It is too obvious to ignore they just wanted to make him Dandelion 2.0 but they failed miserably.
Posted By: Kendaric Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 10:27 AM
Originally Posted by sinogy


Damn man, even the clothing of bard NPC is copied from that of W3. How do you explain that silly clothing of him in BG3? It is so out of touch that not other character's fashion matches it. It is too obvious to ignore they just wanted to make him Dandelion 2.0 but they failed miserably.


Volo's clothing has always looked outrageous compared to everyone else's. It has nothing to do with Dandelion. Volo is often seen as "go-to" guy for adventurers, even if much of the information he provides is wildly exaggerated and contains a lot of half-truth at best.
Posted By: WarBaby2 Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 10:27 AM
Originally Posted by sinogy
It is so out of touch that not other character's fashion matches it. It is too obvious to ignore they just wanted to make him Dandelion 2.0 but they failed miserably.


That's literally what Volo always looked like in lore, though, for decades - gaudy Bard - if anything, CDPR might have copied the Realms there. wink
Posted By: sinogy Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 10:48 AM
Originally Posted by WarBaby2
Originally Posted by sinogy
It is so out of touch that not other character's fashion matches it. It is too obvious to ignore they just wanted to make him Dandelion 2.0 but they failed miserably.


That's literally what Volo always looked like in lore, though, for decades - gaudy Bard - if anything, CDPR might have copied the Realms there. wink



Wrong. Devil is in the details. Volo has always been chubby, long haired dude with it's distinct fashion. BG3 Volo is far different from original Volo. Now, all of a sudden he has bright purple colors, stripes and an east european style fashion. I wonder who he wants to be!

Denying they wanted to make Volo to be Dandelion 2.0 is just willful blindness.
Posted By: WarBaby2 Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 10:58 AM
Originally Posted by sinogy
Originally Posted by WarBaby2
Originally Posted by sinogy
It is so out of touch that not other character's fashion matches it. It is too obvious to ignore they just wanted to make him Dandelion 2.0 but they failed miserably.


That's literally what Volo always looked like in lore, though, for decades - gaudy Bard - if anything, CDPR might have copied the Realms there. wink



Wrong. Devil is in the details. Volo has always been chubby, long haired dude with it's distinct fashion. BG3 Volo is far different from original Volo. Now, all of a sudden he has bright purple colors, stripes and an east european style fashion. I wonder who he wants to be!

Denying they wanted to make Volo to be Dandelion 2.0 is just willful blindness.


Well, aside from the colors and the obvious fact that there are no "chubby" character models in the game right now... no, I don't see it.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Originally Posted by WarBaby2
It almost seams as if Larian is trying to imitate the wrong era of BioWare games. wink


This is exactly my impression.

Originally Posted by sinogy
"pushing romance" exists in BG3 because it wants to get the same attention W3 got. While romance was an organic and very successful part of W3's story it is not like that in this game.


They aren't copying The Witcher games with pushing romance so much, they're copying modern BioWare and making it worse.
Posted By: IrenicusBG3 Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 11:32 AM
Originally Posted by sinogy
Originally Posted by Popsculpture
I don't see the Witcher 3 parallel other than it being a fantasy game



Then you are pretty ignorant about games. The cursed swamp with hag area, the bard NPC, trying to push romance too much into story. The wannabe Witcher 3 is so obvious.


Bards were in DnD and BG way before W3. In BG2 there was a bard theater stronghold side quest that puts W3 to shame.

BG2 brought romance to games. The only difference is nudity and sex which God of War had before W3.
Posted By: sinogy Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 12:04 PM
Originally Posted by WarBaby2
Originally Posted by sinogy
Originally Posted by WarBaby2
Originally Posted by sinogy
It is so out of touch that not other character's fashion matches it. It is too obvious to ignore they just wanted to make him Dandelion 2.0 but they failed miserably.


That's literally what Volo always looked like in lore, though, for decades - gaudy Bard - if anything, CDPR might have copied the Realms there. wink



Wrong. Devil is in the details. Volo has always been chubby, long haired dude with it's distinct fashion. BG3 Volo is far different from original Volo. Now, all of a sudden he has bright purple colors, stripes and an east european style fashion. I wonder who he wants to be!

Denying they wanted to make Volo to be Dandelion 2.0 is just willful blindness.


Well, aside from the colors and the obvious fact that there are no "chubby" character models in the game right now... no, I don't see it.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


Colors, hidden scarf et. just scream wannabe Dandelion. I am not saying thye are the exact same but dandelion 2.0 is undeniable. No chubby pc character doesn't mean no chubby NPC. There a lot of different body types NPC exist in the game. For example, Halsin...

Saving Volo in the first act also screams Dandelion 2.0. It is so obvious.
Posted By: blazerules Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 12:42 PM
Originally Posted by Rhobar121
I just copy my post from another thread.

Number of game owners according to Steam spy:
-> POE 1 is between 1-2 mln
-> POE 2 is between 500-1mln
-> Pathfinder is between 500-1mln
-> DoS2 is between 2-5mln !!!
The situation is worse if you look at other statistics.
Unfortunately, old school games are not popular.
Only PoE 1 sold over 1 million copies because it was one of the first classic RPGs in this decade. POE 2 sold much worse.

I think the issue here is more that Pillars of Eternity has an absolutely dreadful start and is a pretty bad game all the way through in my opinion. It took me multiple tries to just get through the awful, boring start. And I basically forced myself to play the entire game because people kept saying its good but it wasn't. PoE 2 was actually interesting but I basically completely ignored it because of how bad PoE1 was. So I'm not surprised it sold worse despite being a massive improvement.

Pathfinder has a ton of flaws itself. Its buggy, quests are frustratingly badly explained and sometimes not at all. The way it handles alignment is hilariously awful and nonsensical. The map movement is insanely slow and just annoying. It is an incredibly flawed game. I'm still looking forward to pathfinder war of the righteous to see how they will improve with the lessons they learned.

But really. The issue here isn't that old school games are not popular, its that the ones that are around had awful execution in some way to hold them back. PoE2 was actually interesting, but PoE1 blew out the series metaphorical kneecaps with how bad it is. Sure some people loved it but Im pretty sure it is universally agreed upon that the opening is absolutely dreadful. And most people dont have the patience for it. So people who bought it but didnt get through that, or did and still hated it, wouldnt even give a first look to PoE2. While Pathfinder: Kingmaker is a rollercoaster of frustration with some good ideas but by the gods does the bad outweigh the good.

I love classic RPGs and the only reason I even played these games was because there has been such a dry period with cRPGs. If it wasn't for that I wouldn't bother. Did I enjoy them? Kingmaker sure. It had a lot of good ideas despite the insanely flawed execution. PoE1? No. PoE2? Hell yes.
Posted By: Rhobar121 Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 12:53 PM
Originally Posted by blazerules
Originally Posted by Rhobar121
I just copy my post from another thread.

Number of game owners according to Steam spy:
-> POE 1 is between 1-2 mln
-> POE 2 is between 500-1mln
-> Pathfinder is between 500-1mln
-> DoS2 is between 2-5mln !!!
The situation is worse if you look at other statistics.
Unfortunately, old school games are not popular.
Only PoE 1 sold over 1 million copies because it was one of the first classic RPGs in this decade. POE 2 sold much worse.

I think the issue here is more that Pillars of Eternity has an absolutely dreadful start and is a pretty bad game all the way through in my opinion. It took me multiple tries to just get through the awful, boring start. And I basically forced myself to play the entire game because people kept saying its good but it wasn't. PoE 2 was actually interesting but I basically completely ignored it because of how bad PoE1 was. So I'm not surprised it sold worse despite being a massive improvement.

Pathfinder has a ton of flaws itself. Its buggy, quests are frustratingly badly explained and sometimes not at all. The way it handles alignment is hilariously awful and nonsensical. The map movement is insanely slow and just annoying. It is an incredibly flawed game. I'm still looking forward to pathfinder war of the righteous to see how they will improve with the lessons they learned.

But really. The issue here isn't that old school games are not popular, its that the ones that are around had awful execution in some way to hold them back. PoE2 was actually interesting, but PoE1 blew out the series metaphorical kneecaps with how bad it is. Sure some people loved it but Im pretty sure it is universally agreed upon that the opening is absolutely dreadful. And most people dont have the patience for it. So people who bought it but didnt get through that, or did and still hated it, wouldnt even give a first look to PoE2. While Pathfinder: Kingmaker is a rollercoaster of frustration with some good ideas but by the gods does the bad outweigh the good.

I love classic RPGs and the only reason I even played these games was because there has been such a dry period with cRPGs. If it wasn't for that I wouldn't bother. Did I enjoy them? Kingmaker sure. It had a lot of good ideas despite the insanely flawed execution. PoE1? No. PoE2? Hell yes.


For me, the worst thing about POE was the fight.
I don't know how Obsidian did it, but it was more unpleasant than bg2.
PoE2 was much better but it was too late.


Posted By: blazerules Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 01:00 PM
Indeed. Many friends I have who do enjoy cRPGs a ton didn't play PoE2 yet because of PoE1. They replayed fallout 1 and 2... and BG1 and 2... but didn't bother with PoE2. I only played it cause one friend bought it for me as a gift in 2020.
So yeah I only played PoE2 years after launch and enjoyed it. But I really wouldn't have even looked at it due to how awful PoE1 was.

There is a pretty big issue with cRPGs and how badly executed they are. Many people gush over them because they are cRPGs rather than any of the games actual achievements. Even if they can be worse than many cRPGs made in ages past - sometimes even more clunky in ways they shouldn't be. Be it with mechanics, execution, story or all of the above.

DoS1 didn't faceplant the second it stepped onto the cRPG stage. And that probably contributed massively to the success of DoS2. Is it flawed? Yes. But its flaws dont overshadow everything else or get in the way too much. Gods I detest the party management of DoS1, 2 and BG3 for example.

TL;DR
It's not that cRPGs aren't popular. It's that the modern ones mentioned faceplanted right out of the gate. They are really games for hardcore cRPG fans who are willing to put up with it, or people who really, really enjoy jank. I'd say Pathfinder: Kingmaker qualifies for Eurojank. Even if you like cRPGs it can take a lot out of you with how frustrating or bad these games can be and need a lot of time investment just to get the most out of them. Time investment to circumvent the jank in the case of Pathfinder.
Posted By: WarBaby2 Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 01:37 PM
Originally Posted by blazerules
TL;DR
It's not that cRPGs aren't popular. It's that the modern ones mentioned faceplanted right out of the gate. They are really games for hardcore cRPG fans who are willing to put up with it, or people who really, really enjoy jank. I'd say Pathfinder: Kingmaker qualifies for Eurojank. Even if you like cRPGs it can take a lot out of you with how frustrating or bad these games can be and need a lot of time investment just to get the most out of them. Time investment to circumvent the jank in the case of Pathfinder.


True, for the most part, however: I doubt cRPG's have ever been not "janky", but for some reason, players back then where more willing to deal with that... well, either that or the stories/characters where more engrossing then they are today. I know, it's a bit of a veiled "gamers/writers are just not what they used be" argument, but when you compare late 90'ies, early 2000's gaming charts with today's... yea, things have changed. wink
Posted By: blazerules Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 02:00 PM
Expectations have more to do with standards. Gaming has advanced quite a lot in some ways over 20+ years. So people do expect modern cRPGs to be less janky than the ones of old. Not as much or more janky. That and practically every type of story has been told in some capacity so RPGs will probably do better with really interesting companion stories. Which... Larian sort of does in a limited capacity. A good step in the right direction.

The standards of what is good have shifted quite a lot over the years but not to anything outlandishly demanding, for the bare minimum at least.

From a writers aspect yeah... if you want some example of early jank in Pathfinder kingmaker just actually think about the alignment options. Or even ending part where you are questioned.

You can be blamed for robbing the armoury and make up excuses about it.

Even if you didn't take anything from the armoury but the key. Yet you have no option to go "I... literally took nothing but the key? Why are you saying I took other stuff?" and instead only have options to rationalize it in a good or bad way. Which is either jank or bad writing.


It's a tiny thing, but that sort of stuff litters P:K in ways both big and small, sometimes to the point of breaking quests if you do them in the wrong order. Despite the game not being clear about the right order. And in fact making no sense with the supposed solution since it has no relation to the problem whatsoever. That sort of stuff drags P:K at least.

PoE1 is just bad writing and game design considering how godawful the opening is though.
Posted By: Tzelanit Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 22/10/20 02:10 PM
This is a really weak take that isn't worth a lot of effort to respond to, so I'll just summarize my thoughts with this quote from famed American novelist and humorist, Mark Twain:

"There is no such thing as a new idea. It is impossible. We simply take a lot of old ideas and put them into a sort of mental kaleidoscope. We give them a turn and they make new and curious combinations. We keep on turning and making new combinations indefinitely; but they are the same old pieces of colored glass that have been in use through all the ages.”
Posted By: 1varangian Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 31/10/20 12:42 PM
This kind of happened to Dragon Age games.

Origins was a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. A great game, but it was already influenced by the MMO style casual grind mentality. Stuff like the equipment material tiers created for constant gear upgrades. Trash mobs in the end drop Dragonbone weapons just because you are high level even though it makes zero sense in the context of the lore. The design where every fight begins with full resources and there is no resource management to consider at all, basically. Individual spells are on gamey cooldowns. Love the lore and the writing, hate the systems.

Dragon Age 2 took that to the next level. Everything looks overpowered but everything feels underpowered. Flashy "fun" romp where you don't have to think too much, just spam them buttons MMO style and watch your Mage spin around casting flashy spells that take 1% of enemy health at a time.

They wanted the D&D crowd, but also the action crowd for obvious corporate reasons. But the game itself becomes worse for both groups.

To a perhaps smaller extent, Larian now want the D&D crowd, but also the DOS crowd. I must say I hated the combat in DOS games and could never finish them. The gamey systems kill immersion in an RPG. There's too much of this in BG3 currently and I hope they can find a more realistic take on the gameplay that makes the game world more believable. For comparison, this has never bothered me in BG, IWD, NWN, POE or PFK. It's quite unique to BG3 and because of the DOS influence. Some of it is really good but they need to filter it much more.


Posted By: Riandor Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 31/10/20 01:10 PM
Yeah sorry OP I can't agree on this.

There will always be similarities because each game, book, etc... takes inspiration from the same sources. Witches in huts in dark forests is not a W3 thing. Yes, the HAGS (plural) from Witcher 3 were very memorable and like most things in the W3, just brilliantly written, but the are not unique. Same with Bards following you around and being annoying. Plus you don't have to save Volo you know!

Regardless, I am sure any "closeness" is flattery and the game is certainly in no way failing as a result. There are many things wrong with BG3, but having similarities to Witcher 3 or NWN is not one of them.
Posted By: 1varangian Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 31/10/20 01:39 PM
I took the Witcher comparison simply as the OTS camera view. Obviously this is not an action RPG.
Posted By: TheUser Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 31/10/20 01:40 PM
Guys...if volo is a Human...and BG 3 takes place over 100 years after BG 2...

Hasn't anybody heard of the dread pirate Roberts?

EDIT: to digress back to the thread topic: the only thing BG 3 isn't trying to do hard enough is differentiate itself from DOS2. Larian is so worried about deviating from a model that works and is so risk averse, the game can't help but look confused about its own identity
Posted By: Rhobar121 Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 31/10/20 01:50 PM
Game is different enough from DoS2. I get the feeling some people won't be happy until they remove everything (no matter if it's good or bad)
Posted By: virion Re: BG 3 is trying to be too many games! - 31/10/20 02:37 PM
Originally Posted by sinogy
... and that's why it fails. I mean tis game is trying to be DOS2 + BG + DnD + Witcher 3.

It is a no-brainer that's not gonna work. What Larian should have done was to make a true DnD cRPG which stands on it's own foundations but no this game wanna be like too many games and that's why it doesn't have a strong posture.


Well that's...an interesting point of view...

It's just trying to be DOS3 +DND and references to BG are in the story. That's...pretty much it for now. Not sure where the Witcher 3 reference came from xD
© Larian Studios forums