Larian Studios
Dear all,

After gathering the feedback of what was missing in the questionnaire that I've previously posted here, I'd like to share with you the Version1.0
I do not have the intention of edit it. If there are any missing questions that you'd like to see, I suggest to start another one in a few weeks or once Larian have a final positioning in regard of all the criticism toward BG3

SURVEY
https://forms.gle/irxYjGNPLrC4nhTW7

RESULTS
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IgN2IAZi8Hho6X_7XpiW-0N_cUYEJvX8/view?usp=sharing - LARIAN

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sip8wb8Yu1-N1FC7dDY72RJewnu3hqvz/view?usp=sharing - REDDIT





I'd like to inform that I've removed the request for e-mail & other personal things that might be linked to you. The only request is your nickname of the Forum which will be used by me to AUDIT if someone respond the survey more than once. Your responses will not be shared and I'll handle the survey with 100% confidentiality. If there are any inconsistencies in the survey I'll treat directly INBOX.

I thank everyone that assisted me and I hope our feedbacks can observed in a more appropriate and quantitative way

The results will be shared at least in every odd day.


REPORT (501 respondents) - 4.4 p.p error margin so far -POPULATION - LARIAN FORUM
REPORT (569 respondents) - 4.1 p.p error margin so far - POPULATION - REDDIT

WORDCLOUDS BOTH LARIAN & REDDIT > 1000 INTERVIEWS !!!

Now, whats the first word that comes to your mind when you think about BG3 battle system?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cn0ZXsNYKTtbtIevis9RYCuUV8irk881/view?usp=sharing

Now, whats the first word that comes to your mind when you think about BG3 graphics?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OUnqbYucVTrxT25xbQdmgZ07HFgwOK-P/view?usp=sharing

Now, whats the first word that comes to your mind when you think about BG3 story?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nfiqvvFQx7wo3vYIM_2xGTcBdbDZOF-n/view?usp=sharing
Submitted my two cents, good initiative. Hope Larian sees this.
I didn't understand the targeting system question. Took it!
Thank you!!
Originally Posted by Orbax
I didn't understand the targeting system question. Took it!


Targeting system works like this -you pick a fight in the goblin city, everyone that can see you will attack you without being near the fight. Breaking immersion in my opinion but that doesn’t matter. I want strictly to share the community opinion (mine can be biased)

Thank you!
On a scale from 0 to 10 how would you rate the D&D5e interpretation of Baldur's Gate 3 rules (only answer if you are familiar with the rules)

This sounds like it's backwards. Did you mean: "how would you rate BG3's interpretation of D&D 5E?"

yes
If you could share a mug of beer with Swen, what would you suggest?
4 responses
Hire Matthew Mercer
Die ene kroeg naast het Gravensteen, Barbartje halen.
Focus on the journey
Paulaner Original Munich
Originally Posted by Nezix
On a scale from 0 to 10 how would you rate the D&D5e interpretation of Baldur's Gate 3 rules (only answer if you are familiar with the rules)

This sounds like it's backwards. Did you mean: "how would you rate BG3's interpretation of D&D 5E?"



YODA STYLE ALL THE WAY
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
If you could share a mug of beer with Swen, what would you suggest?
Hire Matthew Mercer


Gotta say, when I went and checked what the others have answered, hire Matt Mercer made me chuckle irl, not gonna lie. Whoever wrote that is a genius.
Originally Posted by Nicottia
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
If you could share a mug of beer with Swen, what would you suggest?
Hire Matthew Mercer


Gotta say, when I went and checked what the others have answered, hire Matt Mercer made me chuckle irl, not gonna like. Whoever wrote that is a genius.



That was mine smile
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid

That was mine smile


You are a genius sir.
Originally Posted by Nicottia
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid

That was mine smile


You are a genius sir.


I wonder how good the writing of this game would be with Mr Mercer on the frontline. The ultimate immersive DM
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by Orbax
I didn't understand the targeting system question. Took it!


Targeting system works like this -you pick a fight in the goblin city, everyone that can see you will attack you without being near the fight. Breaking immersion in my opinion but that doesn’t matter. I want strictly to share the community opinion (mine can be biased)

Thank you!


Gotcha. In D&D you have to also assume a first round shout of "WE'RE UNDER ATTACK!" and initiative is now people responding to the fact that there is a situation. They have a bit too much knowledge on what is going on and how quickly they can ascertain the nature of the alarm. Any one not in LOS should be suprised, but still in the conflict. Its hard one to judge for that kind of stuff though. I get what youre saying!
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by Nicottia
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid

That was mine smile


You are a genius sir.


I wonder how good the writing of this game would be with Mr Mercer on the frontline. The ultimate immersive DM


He's hella creative, gonna give you that, but I have to say, I always thought he was more of a voice actor than a writer, and he's really an amazing voice actor, voiced both Eder and Aloth in POE1/2... like all those different accents Matt can pull off is truly amazing. Now compare him to someone like Alix Wilton Regan (female Inquisitor from Dragon Age Inquisition, Sebille from DOS2, Traynor from ME3), who only seems to have one voice. One accent. You don't know how happy I am that I haven't heard her in BG3... yet. Not saying she's a bad voice actress, but compared to Matt she has no range. You can't hire her to do a bunch of random NPCs, without risking players catching on that some people in the game sound the same.
Great changes made from the previous version Sludge.

Make age brackets. Under 12, 12-17, 18-24 things like that. This makes the information phase easier when you can say The people from the ages of _ and _ generally thought this.

A simple yes or no answer for many of your questions in the end is not enough if you want to gather meaningful data.
I suggest using, at the very least, a scale like your other questions.

When it comes down to your questions regarding "problems" in the game may i suggest turning it into a yes no question asking if you have noticed or encountered it.
Then follow up with a question asking their opinions, if they say no, they can skip the opinion question. The last thing you want to do is skew your answers by forcing someone to answer a question when they have not seen the issue.

Your questioning order is actually really good,


Our WordCloud So far for the WORDS that comes to your mind regarding combat system:

https://ibb.co/ypvQNJj
just took it as well

however since i'm not familiar with DnD 5e i wanted to skip those questions, it didn't let me submit, so i just made 5
Originally Posted by Okidoki
Great changes made from the previous version Sludge.

Make age brackets. Under 12, 12-17, 18-24 things like that. This makes the information phase easier when you can say The people from the ages of _ and _ generally thought this.

A simple yes or no answer for many of your questions in the end is not enough if you want to gather meaningful data.
I suggest using, at the very least, a scale like your other questions.

When it comes down to your questions regarding "problems" in the game may i suggest turning it into a yes no question asking if you have noticed or encountered it.
Then follow up with a question asking their opinions, if they say no, they can skip the opinion question. The last thing you want to do is skew your answers by forcing someone to answer a question when they have not seen the issue.

Your questioning order is actually really good,




Okidoki, thank you for your feedback! Market research is a thing I do for living for about 8 years and I agree with your comments on how to handle some of that questions. In my defense I'll say that GoogleForms is so limited as a tool for market research that I was too lazy to build the best question for every ocasion frown





Originally Posted by sethmage
just took it as well

however since i'm not familiar with DnD 5e i wanted to skip those questions, it didn't let me submit, so i just made 5


Sethmage, I'm sorry. That's the googleform limitation in regard of skiping based on previous questions and I simply forgot to mark the one related to rules not to be obligatory.
Answering 5 is the best way because it doesn't lean to any of the extremes (NEUTRAL)
Submitted smile

Re Matt Mercer as DM, id be afraid of the Mercer effect tbh.

Playing a dnd video game isent playing pnp dnd. You cant put the depth of a tabletop rpg in a video game, but theyre getting awfully close smile
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by Orbax
I didn't understand the targeting system question. Took it!


Targeting system works like this -you pick a fight in the goblin city, everyone that can see you will attack you without being near the fight. Breaking immersion in my opinion but that doesn’t matter. I want strictly to share the community opinion (mine can be biased)

Thank you!


Actually you formed it bad here. If they see you attacking someone then it makes sense for them to join the fight. You mean situation where they join fight only because they share location in general, but by logic shouldn't as they have no information what is happening.

For me it seems to be bug to be honest and needs fixing. I played with it quite a lot and inside the temple most fights work properly with exception to main hall and hobgoblin Boss (everyone just becomes instantly hostile when he dies no matter what. When stealth killing Drow isn't problem at all). Most times only small group which was taking part in action joins fight and then they try to start the alarm, so they run to the nearest drums. I had no problems with stealth killing 2 goblins that try to push guy into spiders nest without alarm, same for Spike and Shaman. Sometimes it even goes nice like in case of goblin that talk about Wyll and ways to kill him, the ones in next room will join the fight if by chance they will notice it mostly by coming too close to hole in the wall and seeing the fight.
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by Okidoki
Great changes made from the previous version Sludge.

Make age brackets. Under 12, 12-17, 18-24 things like that. This makes the information phase easier when you can say The people from the ages of _ and _ generally thought this.

A simple yes or no answer for many of your questions in the end is not enough if you want to gather meaningful data.
I suggest using, at the very least, a scale like your other questions.

When it comes down to your questions regarding "problems" in the game may i suggest turning it into a yes no question asking if you have noticed or encountered it.
Then follow up with a question asking their opinions, if they say no, they can skip the opinion question. The last thing you want to do is skew your answers by forcing someone to answer a question when they have not seen the issue.

Your questioning order is actually really good,




Okidoki, thank you for your feedback! Market research is a thing I do for living for about 8 years and I agree with your comments on how to handle some of that questions. In my defense I'll say that GoogleForms is so limited as a tool for market research that I was too lazy to build the best question for every ocasion frown




Oh i wholeheartedly agree. I would be lazy too if i were in your situation.
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
If you could share a mug of beer with Swen, what would you suggest?
4 responses
Hire Matthew Mercer
Die ene kroeg naast het Gravensteen, Barbartje halen.
Focus on the journey
Paulaner Original Munich


I was the Paulaner vote because I couldn't think of a good IPA on the spot. Damn the pressure!
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
If you could share a mug of beer with Swen, what would you suggest?
4 responses
Hire Matthew Mercer
Die ene kroeg naast het Gravensteen, Barbartje halen.
Focus on the journey
Paulaner Original Munich

goddamnit that 2nd reply xD
Dear all, the report will be always in the first page of the post

that's how you gonna see it in charts.

You can access the PDF using this link as well,

https://smallpdf.com/shared#st=29e9df3c-d751-4a73-b2ca-1c80537688e2&fn=Baldur%27s+Gate+3+-+Early+Access+-+Survey.pdf&ct=1603398917421&tl=share-document&rf=link
Had to answer 5s for the 5e questions since it wouldn't allow a submission without answering. Otherwise survey looks to show a lot of work is needed. Also Vodka guy knows what's up.
Originally Posted by DZs7
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by Orbax
I didn't understand the targeting system question. Took it!


Targeting system works like this -you pick a fight in the goblin city, everyone that can see you will attack you without being near the fight. Breaking immersion in my opinion but that doesn’t matter. I want strictly to share the community opinion (mine can be biased)

Thank you!


Actually you formed it bad here. If they see you attacking someone then it makes sense for them to join the fight. You mean situation where they join fight only because they share location in general, but by logic shouldn't as they have no information what is happening.

For me it seems to be bug to be honest and needs fixing. I played with it quite a lot and inside the temple most fights work properly with exception to main hall and hobgoblin Boss (everyone just becomes instantly hostile when he dies no matter what. When stealth killing Drow isn't problem at all). Most times only small group which was taking part in action joins fight and then they try to start the alarm, so they run to the nearest drums. I had no problems with stealth killing 2 goblins that try to push guy into spiders nest without alarm, same for Spike and Shaman. Sometimes it even goes nice like in case of goblin that talk about Wyll and ways to kill him, the ones in next room will join the fight if by chance they will notice it mostly by coming too close to hole in the wall and seeing the fight.


To put it another way, because I don't know if we are disagreeing - If you attack 5 goblins in the courtyard and another 5 are drunk 150 feet away 50 feet above you, the goblins you just attacked would yell out "we're under attack!" on their turn and perception rolls would be made by the other group that doesn't have LOS to the melee yet to see if they heard it. If they did hear it, the enter initiative as surprise round, and the ones that didnt hear it, enter in the round after. The drums would summon interior goblins, etc. The stealthing thing is OP no matter where you do it as you can shoot the same person 5 times in a row until they die and combat never starts, so I wouldn't use it as a measure of threat scope mechanics as you never generate threat that way.

What you are talking about for the interior is correct, they were largely isolated events. The gnoll fight, outside goblin camp, and interior of dungeon had some issues with a mass initiative from people who wouldn't probably join in for at least a round. The threat scope just needs some tweaking for LOS and hearing range and what it means exactly. a fireball going off 100 feet away from the throne room should probably be picked up, regardless of LOS. They don't do patrol work and threat detection very well beyond stealth or not and then a defined group that will enter into combat per area.

But, I don't want to clog this thread down with it, should probably make a new one about the issue to go more into it. I just wasn't quite sure initially whether or not the 1-10 was saying it was working like it should or not.
Jesus, that agreement about disengage as a bonus. Glad to see we're not purely in an echo-chamber were the vocal people are drowning things out-but 50% agreement on the lowest end the scale...Whoa.

If people disagree, by the by, be sure to reply. I'm seeing stuff I was surprised at. And people seem much more neutral on companion interactions so far than I thought-which is good to see.
Added my two cents to the poll.

Not sure I fully understood what you meant by this question though.
"On a scale from 0 to 10 how would you rate the D&D5e interpretation of Baldur's Gate 3 rules (only answer if you are familiar with the rules)"

Seems it should be the other way around, rate the BG3 interpretation of 5e.
Good Job putting this together. Wish Larian would have put something out of their own. Feel like this is a good way to get an honest birds eye view of feedback without having to read through several pages of arguments.
Originally Posted by Duriel15
Added my two cents to the poll.

Not sure I fully understood what you meant by this question though.
"On a scale from 0 to 10 how would you rate the D&D5e interpretation of Baldur's Gate 3 rules (only answer if you are familiar with the rules)"

Seems it should be the other way around, rate the BG3 interpretation of 5e.


Yeah you are right! I did yoda stile. I’ve rephrased it so I guess now we’re free of misunderstandings.

Thank you for the feedback
Originally Posted by WinterbornGuard
Good Job putting this together. Wish Larian would have put something out of their own. Feel like this is a good way to get an honest birds eye view of feedback without having to read through several pages of arguments.


I work with marketing, mainly focused in business intelligence. There’s a marketing rule that any launching you’d ever do you need to run a market research - before (concept study) - during (product positioning) - and after (campaign recall).

That’s not a criticism directly toward Larian only, but what I see in gaming industry is this lack of knowledge about customers in general. That’s why many companies fails to impress their clients and I’m just doing that because this name have a tremendous weight in my life. Otherwise I wouldn’t bother.

What i really wanted is a piece of art that I’ll share with my kids in the future. So far, I’m not impressed at all.
Thanks for putting that together. As another noted would be nice if Larian had a similar thing stickied somewhere. Feel like it gives a much clearer visual representation of where the community stands on things than you get going through the forum topics.
Originally Posted by Duriel15
Thanks for putting that together. As another noted would be nice if Larian had a similar thing stickied somewhere. Feel like it gives a much clearer visual representation of where the community stands on things than you get going through the forum topics.


Yeah! Wish I was filling their questionnaire. But from what we’ve seen in DoS that’s not a practice
-UPDATE REPORT-

REPORT (61 respondents) - 12p.p error margin so far - Please, aid us to reach 500 respondents at least to get a 4p.p error margin

https://docdro.id/zrNuDMX

WORDCLOUDS

Now, whats the first word that comes to your mind when you think about BG3 battle system?
https://ibb.co/TLb7gcf

Now, whats the first word that comes to your mind when you think about BG3 graphics?
https://ibb.co/0sDBmv3

Now, whats the first word that comes to your mind when you think about BG3 story?
https://ibb.co/7nPVhZF
Only 61 response, but no matter how many responses you get I think the overwhelming majority will agree that the chain mechanic and item management suck.

The chain mechanic is just a lesser solution for the RTS mechanic developed 30 years ago- Larian should admit it and move on. Item management will be fundamentally broken until you can interact with equipped items while also looking at inventory. They can still have a screen with the dolls, but at least make a small section under character portraits on the inventory screen that shows what each character has equipped.
When I went to the wordcloud I got an ad for an adult game...
Originally Posted by Orbax
When I went to the wordcloud I got an ad for an adult game...


I accept suggestions of websites that I can use to host the results. Those free services are really bad
@Sludge Khalid thanks so much for putting this survey together. When you have more responses, please endeavor to get Larian to at least see/read it, i.e. send via Twitter, email, all the forums etc.

The survey questions are clearly biased towards 5e purists. I agree with most of the leading questions though. They really need to drop some of the homebrew rules especially imbalances with elevation advantage, surfaces, throwables.
@Sludge Khalid for site hosting Wix, Weebly, or WordPress would get you some basic hosting for free.

Please keep sharing the results as you get more!
Originally Posted by vel
@Sludge Khalid thanks so much for putting this survey together. When you have more responses, please endeavor to get Larian to at least see/read it, i.e. send via Twitter, email, all the forums etc.

The survey questions are clearly biased towards 5e purists. I agree with most of the leading questions though. They really need to drop some of the homebrew rules especially imbalances with elevation advantage, surfaces, throwables.


Hi Vel!

At the same time I agree the questions are biased leaning toward 5e Purists, I’ve used the trending topics gathered here in the community and I focused mainly in the experience of the client other than adding annoying bug complaints which we know that 100% will be solved in the official release.

After all, when we buy a car we’re worried about comfort, engine power, safety, etc. and we’re never worried if the car will come with 4 wheels :p

I thank you for all the support!
Most of the questions feel like a fishing expedition for 5e purists. It's not even subtle, every change is labeled as "homebrew" and the game is framed as interpreting the rules rather than implementing them. The rest of the survey is the sort of generic questioning that, if it was needed, could be much better handled by a real survey in the client. Overall it's hard to fathom a genuine use for this survey besides giving 5e snobs something to point at when they say no one likes the changes even though they're the main people who will care about responding to this survey.
@Sunfly while the bias in the survey questions towards 5e purists is true, if you look through the results you'll see it's not just 5e purists represented.

There are some things there's wide agreement on (less surfaces / nerf them) while there are other things with no agreement (shove, backstab bonuses).
Originally Posted by Sunfly
Most of the questions feel like a fishing expedition for 5e purists. It's not even subtle, every change is labeled as "homebrew" and the game is framed as interpreting the rules rather than implementing them. The rest of the survey is the sort of generic questioning that, if it was needed, could be much better handled by a real survey in the client. Overall it's hard to fathom a genuine use for this survey besides giving 5e snobs something to point at when they say no one likes the changes even though they're the main people who will care about responding to this survey.


The survey was built in a way that anyone can fill it and it was based on the major feedback of the community. Why are you afraid of the results?

Do a better one and I’ll fill it. I’m not afraid of being the minority. I’m afraid of a company who supposedly acts like it cares for people opinion not structuring a research for their customers.

The funny fact is that we’re here in Larians ground (their forum) and the results points that they are not happy with their homebrewing = the main problem is the research

If you want only butterflies I suggest going to Reddit where they use the game as The Sims 4:medieval simulator and be happy.




Here's the average comparing the results of people who are familiar with DnD5e (YES) vs (NO)

https://imgur.com/KAcSU4N
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Here's the average comparing the results of people who are familiar with DnD5e (YES) vs (NO)

https://imgur.com/KAcSU4N

Interesting. Looks like the biggest difference is height/backstab advantage: Those not familiar with 5e like it, whereas those familiar with 5e have a (slight) dislike for it...

Keep up the good work btw; I'm excited to see the survey results when more people reply!
Not shcoked that AC nerf/HP bloat is the most hated homebrew rule.

[Linked Image]
Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Here's the average comparing the results of people who are familiar with DnD5e (YES) vs (NO)

https://imgur.com/KAcSU4N

Interesting. Looks like the biggest difference is height/backstab advantage: Those not familiar with 5e like it, whereas those familiar with 5e have a (slight) dislike for it...

Keep up the good work btw; I'm excited to see the survey results when more people reply!


My guess about that matter is that usually people don’t have clear opinion on advantage so far because they don’t have a clear vision of the impact in the level 4-10 tier of the gameplay where the crowd control spells are GOLD.
Also, they couldn’t use barbarian, samurai (xanathars) etc. Guiding bolt was the only spell that was really affected so far and the impact couldn’t be noticed clearly.
thanks so much for the effort. We can just pray that larian notices it.
It would be a shame if they didnt.

My first take away reviewing the answeres is:
Anything that directly and heavily fucks with the DnD combat balance a nightmare for the majority. Hence the most given rating for all of the homebrews (stealth, surface) etc is zero (except for dip, wich i guess noone really cares about). It seems that most of the people who are giving feedback here in EA are do have a Tabletop RPG background. That could also be an indicator as to why the vast majority of people prefers turn based.
That is not very suprising as owlcat also patched kingmaker for a turnbased mode, as the demand was so damn high.

Indeed one of my first thoughts, just when i heard that larian is gonna make BGIII happen, was: "oh yes. they did such a brilliant turn based Combat system in DOS2, wich felt lightweight and streamlined. They can easily transfer that to DnD5e and it might be a dream come true of a PC game, that gets very close to the tabletop experience". Then kingmaker released the turn based mod and i was even more exited about BGIII, as it was so enjoyable.
I dont know about you, but the beauty about it is (at least in kingmaker), that you really getting the feel of anticipation for everything that happens. be it the mighty fireball or the auto-attack of your greatsword fighter. On RTWP most of the time you only control spells activly and only switch focus of your auto attackers every now and then. Now i can really enjoy the martial damage my fighter or ranger is putting out. it is more prominent.

getting back to my point: It seems to be a trend, that everything disconnected from the combat, where the actual DnD5e Rules have the heaviest influence, is not even remotly as negativly graded. Most things that are disconnected from the combat systems are graded decent if not good.

And i really feel that.
I´m kind of struggling as probably many. at least that is what i make of the answers.
this game has some beatiful elements to it. It has some innovation that is really good. We see that in the survey. If DnD5e did not exist, and larian came up with that: I would probably rate this game way higher than i do right now.
It kinda feels like being unfair to larian, but the negativity comes from the disappointment. Larian Studios is clearly, without a shadow of a doubt, a very very good game studio, capable of making great and enjoyable games. It would be absoluty in their realm of possibilities to make BG3 a DnD5e PC game. But they activly chose not to.
And thats what drives me mad at the game. If this game was absolutely disconnected from DnD, i would possible rate it a 9 out of 10. But it isnt. It should be a DnD5e game, and they chose to not make it it one. This disappoints me so much, that i cant give that game the appreciation it probably deserves, if you have no boundries with DnD or Tabletop RPG whatsoever.

I think the survey represents this thought a little. Is the surface stuff really a 0/10 in and of itself? Or is it only a 0/10 because it is alien to DnD and screws of the feeling of a DnD fight. Would you rate it 0/10 if you didnt know DnD? or formally they didnt chose to run "DnD-based". I think not, at least for me....



Quite extensive survey, well done.

I see a big theme is 5e by the book vs Larian's interpretation/adjustments "house rules".

Playing Solasta I think in general we feel they are tighter to 5e, which is nice, but lets talk about some of the perils that have been echoed in other tactical TB games over and over and that is things like an "abundance of misses".

Sitting at a table and having misses you sort of laugh it off as a group, "oh shit!", it is slower moving, even though you missed the anguish hits the senses differently because of your surroundings. Your next bud and thinking "I got your pack, let me show you how it's done", you feel this.

In a pc game you quickly realize how random a 20 die is, you are "alone" playing all your guys in a sense are you so you can't laugh it off with others (less coop), then recalling other similar game forums on how gamers put games over the grate with complaints of miss miss miss, the game is all RNG, I hate that! talk. So I feel a lot of these questions plays into this thing here and it is delicate. Possibly the proverb of "careful what you wish for".

A newer thing for me is a 20 die roll for dialog choices in games, both games have them and one can see that is going to cause a ruckus in forums or save scumming. I wanted to ask this to the NPC, but I can't because a 20 die failed, things like that. Not sure that is going to go over well for the masses.
Originally Posted by Horrorscope
A newer thing for me is a 20 die roll for dialog choices in games, both games have them and one can see that is going to cause a ruckus in forums or save scumming. I wanted to ask this to the NPC, but I can't because a 20 die failed, things like that. Not sure that is going to go over well for the masses.

True. I do hope that the final product will have many more degrees-of-success in dialogue checks, where a failure by <5 is treated differently as a failure by 10+. Right now it is very frustrating to miss a dialogue DC by 1 and the result being forced combat, a kid dies, etc
Showing the dice rather than hit or miss would help a lot I think. And I appreciate this kind of survey. Putting together a data driven way of gathering opinions can only be helpful.
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by Sunfly
Most of the questions feel like a fishing expedition for 5e purists. It's not even subtle, every change is labeled as "homebrew" and the game is framed as interpreting the rules rather than implementing them. The rest of the survey is the sort of generic questioning that, if it was needed, could be much better handled by a real survey in the client. Overall it's hard to fathom a genuine use for this survey besides giving 5e snobs something to point at when they say no one likes the changes even though they're the main people who will care about responding to this survey.


The survey was built in a way that anyone can fill it and it was based on the major feedback of the community. Why are you afraid of the results?

Do a better one and I’ll fill it. I’m not afraid of being the minority. I’m afraid of a company who supposedly acts like it cares for people opinion not structuring a research for their customers.

The funny fact is that we’re here in Larians ground (their forum) and the results points that they are not happy with their homebrewing = the main problem is the research

If you want only butterflies I suggest going to Reddit where they use the game as The Sims 4:medieval simulator and be happy.


I don't think you know what the word afraid means, if you were good with words though you'd probably have written a better survey. You can throw as loud of tantrum you want but it doesn't change that your survey is trash that exists for the sole purpose of generating the illusion of evidence for its premise. I think the most telling thing of all though is that rather than actually reply to anything I said you went on some long tangential rant about how I must not like the message or something and I just can't handle your tell it like it is attitude I guess. Go back to school and try not to flunk out this time.
@Sunfly that wasn't very helpful. Personal attacks don't bolster your counterargument.

Sludge Khalid seems to just be trying to help, even if his survey is biased.
Originally Posted by Sunfly
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by Sunfly
Most of the questions feel like a fishing expedition for 5e purists. It's not even subtle, every change is labeled as "homebrew" and the game is framed as interpreting the rules rather than implementing them. The rest of the survey is the sort of generic questioning that, if it was needed, could be much better handled by a real survey in the client. Overall it's hard to fathom a genuine use for this survey besides giving 5e snobs something to point at when they say no one likes the changes even though they're the main people who will care about responding to this survey.


The survey was built in a way that anyone can fill it and it was based on the major feedback of the community. Why are you afraid of the results?

Do a better one and I’ll fill it. I’m not afraid of being the minority. I’m afraid of a company who supposedly acts like it cares for people opinion not structuring a research for their customers.

The funny fact is that we’re here in Larians ground (their forum) and the results points that they are not happy with their homebrewing = the main problem is the research

If you want only butterflies I suggest going to Reddit where they use the game as The Sims 4:medieval simulator and be happy.


I don't think you know what the word afraid means, if you were good with words though you'd probably have written a better survey. You can throw as loud of tantrum you want but it doesn't change that your survey is trash that exists for the sole purpose of generating the illusion of evidence for its premise. I think the most telling thing of all though is that rather than actually reply to anything I said you went on some long tangential rant about how I must not like the message or something and I just can't handle your tell it like it is attitude I guess. Go back to school and try not to flunk out this time.


How does it feel being so out of arguments that you must rely on ad hominem attacks? I advise increasing the dosage of those antidepressants that you use because your life is not happy enough.
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by Sunfly
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by Sunfly
Most of the questions feel like a fishing expedition for 5e purists. It's not even subtle, every change is labeled as "homebrew" and the game is framed as interpreting the rules rather than implementing them. The rest of the survey is the sort of generic questioning that, if it was needed, could be much better handled by a real survey in the client. Overall it's hard to fathom a genuine use for this survey besides giving 5e snobs something to point at when they say no one likes the changes even though they're the main people who will care about responding to this survey.


The survey was built in a way that anyone can fill it and it was based on the major feedback of the community. Why are you afraid of the results?

Do a better one and I’ll fill it. I’m not afraid of being the minority. I’m afraid of a company who supposedly acts like it cares for people opinion not structuring a research for their customers.

The funny fact is that we’re here in Larians ground (their forum) and the results points that they are not happy with their homebrewing = the main problem is the research

If you want only butterflies I suggest going to Reddit where they use the game as The Sims 4:medieval simulator and be happy.


I don't think you know what the word afraid means, if you were good with words though you'd probably have written a better survey. You can throw as loud of tantrum you want but it doesn't change that your survey is trash that exists for the sole purpose of generating the illusion of evidence for its premise. I think the most telling thing of all though is that rather than actually reply to anything I said you went on some long tangential rant about how I must not like the message or something and I just can't handle your tell it like it is attitude I guess. Go back to school and try not to flunk out this time.


How does it feel being so out of arguments that you must rely on ad hominem attacks? I advise increasing the dosage of those antidepressants that you use because your life is not happy enough.


That's not how ad hominem works, I wasn't insulting you to discredit your point I was insulting you because you did a bad job and responded to criticism like a child. Again, go back to school.
Originally Posted by Sunfly
That's not how ad hominem works, I wasn't insulting you to discredit your point I was insulting you because [...]

And that will get you suspended if you keep it up. Knock it off.
Thank you, for maintaining the survey on the top page. Next.
Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Not shcoked that AC nerf/HP bloat is the most hated homebrew rule.



The problem is that this directly reflects difficulty. I would say that this is the one area that Larian should ignore the responses, and probably will. In the end it is a video game where players with a wide variety of ability will have to find satisfaction with combat. They are proven to know how to balance combat. This issue is much better addressed with difficulty settings that will appear eventually.
Changes are labeled as changes because they are changes. That seems to be enough to seriously offend some people. Have fun being offended.

On topic: I will check the results in a few days.
There seems to be a trend regarding the AC but let's see where it goes.
Very orderly, I think the basis for whatever result will be a robust one - but of course based on the very specific sample population. I do not think the population accurately represent the average consumer, that goes without saying. But Larian should probably take heed of the audience invested and interested enough to write on the forums and trying to give input. This is out hobby, we know what we would love in a 100+ hour game.
Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by Sunfly
That's not how ad hominem works, I wasn't insulting you to discredit your point I was insulting you because [...]

And that will get you suspended if you keep it up. Knock it off.


Keep what up? My original post was blunt but it was coherent criticism and stuck to its points, the op is the one who decided to take things personally and started abusing others because of it.
Originally Posted by Dulany67
Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Not shcoked that AC nerf/HP bloat is the most hated homebrew rule.



The problem is that this directly reflects difficulty. I would say that this is the one area that Larian should ignore the responses, and probably will. In the end it is a video game where players with a wide variety of ability will have to find satisfaction with combat. They are proven to know how to balance combat. This issue is much better addressed with difficulty settings that will appear eventually.

I would beg to differ. They want our input after all so outright ignoring it because they feel they know better kind of goes against the entire reason why they have an EA... Id also say that most of the encounters are far from balanced. Ive seen people complaing about needing to cheese, ive seen people complainng that they want to auto-kill enemies with 2hp and everything in between. Alot of the encounters are so horrid in their execution infact that im wondering why theyre using the DnD franchise at all.

From all the monsters in the Underdark for example the only one whos supposed to have a pouce attack (and a powerfull one at that) is the Bulette. For all the other monster encounters there they pulled these abilities out of their arse and made the encounters a great deal more difficult then they need to be for no particular reason. Mind you, I notice these things because I also DM for groups and have the monster manual and DM manual in my posession. Im not saying that they need to stay to those statlines 100% either but most of the encounters atm are just difficult for the sake of beeing difficult. Which isent fun, rewarding nor necessary. Sometimes you just fight a bunch of generic goblins. No need to have summersaulting Minotaurs who move 200 feet in 1 turn. Who thought that stuff was a good idea?
love the idea. hope larian sees this.
@Demoulius Just want to agree with the point being made that the answer is somewhere between Larians approach and purist wants. Also that having normal encounters with normal baddies is ok and even needed.
Originally Posted by Skarpharald
Very orderly, I think the basis for whatever result will be a robust one - but of course based on the very specific sample population. I do not think the population accurately represent the average consumer, that goes without saying. But Larian should probably take heed of the audience invested and interested enough to write on the forums and trying to give input. This is out hobby, we know what we would love in a 100+ hour game.


Yes I agree 100%. No matter the research content it carries a little bit of bias due to the fact that currently our sample is centralized at this very forum.
The best way would be having them (preferably by hiring a specialized company - an independent research institute) to run the market research.

Yet, even knowing that our population is insufficient to be representative to the whole universe, the results strikes somehow in certain areas that highlight some flaws in the gameplay. Also, by applying this methodology where you stimulate the interviewees to opine about certain characteristics instead of filling a blank text box has proven to be more useful as usually people tends to follow the easy path during a survey.

Answering the other guy who was uncomfortable with the results:
Yes, the questions can be somehow poorly written as I’m not native after all, but I work with market research for living for more than 8 years and I’ve used some known methods. Also, I shared with the whole community the previous questionnaire whereas their scrutiny made me improve it even more.

Nevertheless, thank you for participating in it so far!

76 votes seems like a small bubble for who plays this game.
Originally Posted by WinterbornGuard
@Demoulius Just want to agree with the point being made that the answer is somewhere between Larians approach and purist wants. Also that having normal encounters with normal baddies is ok and even needed.


Oh please YES, they have to stop thinking every single thing has to be "awesome". Nothing is great and special if everything is designed to be special...
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by WinterbornGuard
@Demoulius Just want to agree with the point being made that the answer is somewhere between Larians approach and purist wants. Also that having normal encounters with normal baddies is ok and even needed.


Oh please YES, they have to stop thinking every single thing has to be "awesome". Nothing is great and special if everything is designed to be special...


A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.

Antoine de Saint-Exupery


Just like to say that I’m with you guys. Simplicity above everything else.
In movies there’s the begging, the plot, the middle, the climax and the end.
Equilibrium is desired in every aspect of life. Should work like this in gaming industry as well
Originally Posted by Demoulius
Originally Posted by Dulany67
Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Not shcoked that AC nerf/HP bloat is the most hated homebrew rule.



The problem is that this directly reflects difficulty. I would say that this is the one area that Larian should ignore the responses, and probably will. In the end it is a video game where players with a wide variety of ability will have to find satisfaction with combat. They are proven to know how to balance combat. This issue is much better addressed with difficulty settings that will appear eventually.

I would beg to differ. They want our input after all so outright ignoring it because they feel they know better kind of goes against the entire reason why they have an EA... Id also say that most of the encounters are far from balanced. Ive seen people complaing about needing to cheese, ive seen people complainng that they want to auto-kill enemies with 2hp and everything in between. Alot of the encounters are so horrid in their execution infact that im wondering why theyre using the DnD franchise at all.

From all the monsters in the Underdark for example the only one whos supposed to have a pouce attack (and a powerfull one at that) is the Bulette. For all the other monster encounters there they pulled these abilities out of their arse and made the encounters a great deal more difficult then they need to be for no particular reason. Mind you, I notice these things because I also DM for groups and have the monster manual and DM manual in my posession. Im not saying that they need to stay to those statlines 100% either but most of the encounters atm are just difficult for the sake of beeing difficult. Which isent fun, rewarding nor necessary. Sometimes you just fight a bunch of generic goblins. No need to have summersaulting Minotaurs who move 200 feet in 1 turn. Who thought that stuff was a good idea?

So I found nothing overly hard in the EA. In fact, I found it appropriately difficult with no need to use barrels. This is not TT, and the game must present a challenge. That is why I say that this is an issue that should be dealt with using difficulty settings.
I've found that pretty much every fight you need to carefully plan and position your party beforehand expecting things to go wrong or it's basically 1-2 round TPK. Wander up to the goblins outer wall and start a fight? You're done for. Wander up to the Githyanki patrol and start a fight? Also done for. End up in pretty much any unexpected fight and chances are you're done for. This is in large part due to the games action economy and the insane amount of ground effects. If you don't win the initiative roll, or preplace all your party members in the most advantageous, ie high ground, locations fights are usually super one sided.

The number of times I've started a combat only to have 3-6 aoe bombs/arrows dropped on me before I can move is sad. Specially when you're talking lvl 1-4. I could understand this in more late game. By that time you have higher stats to be able to withstand a barrage like this or other ways of mitigating the effects. I really wonder how they are going to, if they even plan to, implement counter spell.
Originally Posted by Dulany67
Originally Posted by Demoulius
Originally Posted by Dulany67
Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Not shcoked that AC nerf/HP bloat is the most hated homebrew rule.



The problem is that this directly reflects difficulty. I would say that this is the one area that Larian should ignore the responses, and probably will. In the end it is a video game where players with a wide variety of ability will have to find satisfaction with combat. They are proven to know how to balance combat. This issue is much better addressed with difficulty settings that will appear eventually.

I would beg to differ. They want our input after all so outright ignoring it because they feel they know better kind of goes against the entire reason why they have an EA... Id also say that most of the encounters are far from balanced. Ive seen people complaing about needing to cheese, ive seen people complainng that they want to auto-kill enemies with 2hp and everything in between. Alot of the encounters are so horrid in their execution infact that im wondering why theyre using the DnD franchise at all.

From all the monsters in the Underdark for example the only one whos supposed to have a pouce attack (and a powerfull one at that) is the Bulette. For all the other monster encounters there they pulled these abilities out of their arse and made the encounters a great deal more difficult then they need to be for no particular reason. Mind you, I notice these things because I also DM for groups and have the monster manual and DM manual in my posession. Im not saying that they need to stay to those statlines 100% either but most of the encounters atm are just difficult for the sake of beeing difficult. Which isent fun, rewarding nor necessary. Sometimes you just fight a bunch of generic goblins. No need to have summersaulting Minotaurs who move 200 feet in 1 turn. Who thought that stuff was a good idea?

So I found nothing overly hard in the EA. In fact, I found it appropriately difficult with no need to use barrels. This is not TT, and the game must present a challenge. That is why I say that this is an issue that should be dealt with using difficulty settings.


Difficulty doesn't need to be balanced exclusively with hitpoints though. Other ways to balance goblin that are more appropriate to a small nimble monster.
I played the game several times but half of the DND questions are a complete mystery to me. what is Disingagment precious?
anyways, this survey is clearly more for the gameplay guys.
Originally Posted by Duriel15
I've found that pretty much every fight you need to carefully plan and position your party beforehand expecting things to go wrong or it's basically 1-2 round TPK. Wander up to the goblins outer wall and start a fight? You're done for. Wander up to the Githyanki patrol and start a fight? Also done for. End up in pretty much any unexpected fight and chances are you're done for. This is in large part due to the games action economy and the insane amount of ground effects. If you don't win the initiative roll, or preplace all your party members in the most advantageous, ie high ground, locations fights are usually super one sided.

The number of times I've started a combat only to have 3-6 aoe bombs/arrows dropped on me before I can move is sad. Specially when you're talking lvl 1-4. I could understand this in more late game. By that time you have higher stats to be able to withstand a barrage like this or other ways of mitigating the effects. I really wonder how they are going to, if they even plan to, implement counter spell.



You’ve translated how I feel about combat in general. The way it’s expected to be is always by using your infinite line of sight granted by the game to foresee the odds by properly positioning your characters. Do in think it’s tactical thinking? Maybe. Do I think it immersive? Definitely not.

I like to mention the spider matriarch. I was walking carelessly through the cave and then the initiative rolled. I though - “ok, more than 100 hp, it’ll be tough but who cares.” Then out of sudden those spiderlings started to hatch and I was without spells slots from the very beginning. Died.

Then the second time I was already aware of the monsters in the surroundings. I’ve placed my rogue to lure one by one and I dealt with the boss. Also, I’ve took a long rest to replenish my spells slots. Didn’t used the shove or the web burning strategy to kill it. Didn’t even kill the eggs before the battle. I won, but there was this bitter taste in my mouth that I’ve cheated the system. In the end, this battle was less fun than simply beating the imps in the very begging of the game.

Summarizing, I don’t want to know about the boss position to try it again using a better strat. I really wanted that battle to be unique.

Originally Posted by Abits
I played the game several times but half of the DND questions are a complete mystery to me. what is Disingagment precious?
anyways, this survey is clearly more for the gameplay guys.


In base 5e rules many of the things they are allowing us to do as a bonus action, shove, disengage, hide, etc, are all full actions. You can't disengage, run across the map and attack. The only time you can is if you have special bonuses like Second Wind, the Mobility feat, or the rogues cunning action etc. Each of these things allow a character to perform certain actions better/differently. By giving everyone these things freely they are taking away from the uniqueness of each class. It also makes combat balance and action economy a joke. There is also the concept that a round in 5e is meant to be a 6 second period, does it really make sense to anyone that you should be able to run 15ft, shove a guy off a cliff, who clearly fights back at the attempt unless caught of guard (this is where the dice check comes in), run another 15ft and make a full attack on another enemy? That's a lot of things to do in just 6 seconds. There's a reason behind why all these things are the way they are in 5e and Larian has thrown it all out the window seemingly for no reason.
Originally Posted by Duriel15
Originally Posted by Abits
I played the game several times but half of the DND questions are a complete mystery to me. what is Disingagment precious?
anyways, this survey is clearly more for the gameplay guys.


In base 5e rules many of the things they are allowing us to do as a bonus action, shove, disengage, hide, etc, are all full actions. You can't disengage, run across the map and attack. The only time you can is if you have special bonuses like Second Wind, the Mobility feat, or the rogues cunning action etc. Each of these things allow a character to perform certain actions better/differently. By giving everyone these things freely they are taking away from the uniqueness of each class. It also makes combat balance and action economy a joke. There is also the concept that a round in 5e is meant to be a 6 second period, does it really make sense to anyone that you should be able to run 15ft, shove a guy off a cliff, who clearly fights back at the attempt unless caught of guard (this is where the dice check comes in), run another 15ft and make a full attack on another enemy? That's a lot of things to do in just 6 seconds. There's a reason behind why all these things are the way they are in 5e and Larian has thrown it all out the window seemingly for no reason.

I'm not really in the mood to argue about it, I just think it doesn't really matter if the system works, the enemies have the same options, and it's fun. but to each their own I guess.
Originally Posted by Abits

I'm not really in the mood to argue about it, I just think it doesn't really matter if the system works, the enemies have the same options, and it's fun. but to each their own I guess.



Not trying to argue. You asked a question about 'what is Disingagment precious?' It's just my opinion on the matter and an explanation for such. Ultimately it will be Larian's choice. If they keep it the way it is now I think it's the wrong one. Each to their own. I'll just hope the modding community creates a fix for those of us that prefer the 5e system.
do you have to manually update this? Hopefully lotsa people vote on this and it stays front page. nice easy visualisation of feedback for larian to take a look at.
The idea of an in game survey came up earlier in this thread, wrote it down in another thread to highlight:

https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=93170&Number=714134#Post714134
Originally Posted by Orbax
I didn't understand the targeting system question. Took it!



My most hilarious experience with the targeting system was the phase spider cave. I left every one of my heros except for 1 at the entrance to the cave. I snuck all the way back into the cave to retrieve a gem. it removed me from stealth for picking it up and immediately put me into combat. Well I just bonus action stealthed again lol. But the spiders were all locked into combat with my group that was at the mouth of the cave now. So Turn by turn I made my way back with my sneaking character.... dashing moving and hiding while every little spiderling ran to the front and every other spider just kinda walked around. All because it threw people who were essentially 200 meters away, into combat
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by Duriel15
I've found that pretty much every fight you need to carefully plan and position your party beforehand expecting things to go wrong or it's basically 1-2 round TPK. Wander up to the goblins outer wall and start a fight? You're done for. Wander up to the Githyanki patrol and start a fight? Also done for. End up in pretty much any unexpected fight and chances are you're done for. This is in large part due to the games action economy and the insane amount of ground effects. If you don't win the initiative roll, or preplace all your party members in the most advantageous, ie high ground, locations fights are usually super one sided.

The number of times I've started a combat only to have 3-6 aoe bombs/arrows dropped on me before I can move is sad. Specially when you're talking lvl 1-4. I could understand this in more late game. By that time you have higher stats to be able to withstand a barrage like this or other ways of mitigating the effects. I really wonder how they are going to, if they even plan to, implement counter spell.



You’ve translated how I feel about combat in general. The way it’s expected to be is always by using your infinite line of sight granted by the game to foresee the odds by properly positioning your characters. Do in think it’s tactical thinking? Maybe. Do I think it immersive? Definitely not.

I like to mention the spider matriarch. I was walking carelessly through the cave and then the initiative rolled. I though - “ok, more than 100 hp, it’ll be tough but who cares.” Then out of sudden those spiderlings started to hatch and I was without spells slots from the very beginning. Died.

Then the second time I was already aware of the monsters in the surroundings. I’ve placed my rogue to lure one by one and I dealt with the boss. Also, I’ve took a long rest to replenish my spells slots. Didn’t used the shove or the web burning strategy to kill it. Didn’t even kill the eggs before the battle. I won, but there was this bitter taste in my mouth that I’ve cheated the system. In the end, this battle was less fun than simply beating the imps in the very begging of the game.

Summarizing, I don’t want to know about the boss position to try it again using a better strat. I really wanted that battle to be unique.



I really do understand where you are coming from. I would simply say that this is how Larian does it and not everyone is going to feel the way that you do, nor are they going to care as much about changing some of the D&D rules. For example, I liked that fight with the Matriarch and it would have been far less interesting without the eggs hatching.

This game has a lot of constituencies and it's probably impossible to make everyone happy. Maybe best to make everyone a little bit unhappy to find the sweet spot.
Originally Posted by Dulany67
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by Duriel15
I've found that pretty much every fight you need to carefully plan and position your party beforehand expecting things to go wrong or it's basically 1-2 round TPK. Wander up to the goblins outer wall and start a fight? You're done for. Wander up to the Githyanki patrol and start a fight? Also done for. End up in pretty much any unexpected fight and chances are you're done for. This is in large part due to the games action economy and the insane amount of ground effects. If you don't win the initiative roll, or preplace all your party members in the most advantageous, ie high ground, locations fights are usually super one sided.

The number of times I've started a combat only to have 3-6 aoe bombs/arrows dropped on me before I can move is sad. Specially when you're talking lvl 1-4. I could understand this in more late game. By that time you have higher stats to be able to withstand a barrage like this or other ways of mitigating the effects. I really wonder how they are going to, if they even plan to, implement counter spell.



You’ve translated how I feel about combat in general. The way it’s expected to be is always by using your infinite line of sight granted by the game to foresee the odds by properly positioning your characters. Do in think it’s tactical thinking? Maybe. Do I think it immersive? Definitely not.

I like to mention the spider matriarch. I was walking carelessly through the cave and then the initiative rolled. I though - “ok, more than 100 hp, it’ll be tough but who cares.” Then out of sudden those spiderlings started to hatch and I was without spells slots from the very beginning. Died.

Then the second time I was already aware of the monsters in the surroundings. I’ve placed my rogue to lure one by one and I dealt with the boss. Also, I’ve took a long rest to replenish my spells slots. Didn’t used the shove or the web burning strategy to kill it. Didn’t even kill the eggs before the battle. I won, but there was this bitter taste in my mouth that I’ve cheated the system. In the end, this battle was less fun than simply beating the imps in the very begging of the game.

Summarizing, I don’t want to know about the boss position to try it again using a better strat. I really wanted that battle to be unique.



I really do understand where you are coming from. I would simply say that this is how Larian does it and not everyone is going to feel the way that you do, nor are they going to care as much about changing some of the D&D rules. For example, I liked that fight with the Matriarch and it would have been far less interesting without the eggs hatching.

This game has a lot of constituencies and it's probably impossible to make everyone happy. Maybe best to make everyone a little bit unhappy to find the sweet spot.


That’s right. In the end a 8 for everyone is better than a 5 for some and 10 for the others.

Update

https://docdro.id/ZTA1llB


REPORT (111 respondents) - 9.3 p.p error margin so far - Please, aid us to reach 500 respondents at least to get a 4p.p error margin - POPULATION - LARIAN FORUM

So, How do you participate?
The question "On a scale from 0 to 10 how would you rate your satisfaction with Larian's homebew D&D5e interpretation of the rules (only answer if you are familiar with the rules)" is bugged. You have to answer it to complete the survey.
👍🏼
Little question:

Should the research focus in this specific community or expand them to others communities?

If I do so, we will lose the track what our community thinks yet we’ll lose the bias of focusing in this specific universe.

As this specific community have deeper understanding of the rules compared to the others, I’ll have to rephrase some of sentences to capture the broader population.

What do you think?
I think I'll echo Vic's question and ask how does one participate?
Originally Posted by Dexai
I think I'll echo Vic's question and ask how does one participate?


There was a link at the first post for it.
Why is my AVG antivirus stopping a process on the link called blacklist?
bumping because there once was a link to the survey in the first post, though it seems to have been replaced with a link to the pdf results. I assume this is a mistake...OP?
Originally Posted by mrfuji3
bumping because there once was a link to the survey in the first post, though it seems to have been replaced with a link to the pdf results. I assume this is a mistake...OP?



It was a mistake folks. My bad. I’ll post the link again
The natural order of the internet: Links tend to change or lead to nowhere grin
Dear all,

Survey is online again. Please, let the DEVS know your opinions

Thanks
I was apprehensive, but it is a good survey.
Even if it focuses a lot on 5e implementation, it is fair enough.
Hopefully a good mix of players will respond.

EDIT 1 : the question about "no for-of-war" was a bit confusing for me. I presume it refers to the fact your camera can look everywhere.

EDIT 2 : The "engage all" was a bit surprising also. Some enemies that are near do not engage at all, so the question seemed biased towards claiming all enemies attack, which is not true at all. In the goblin camp (ruined Selune Temple) for example, you only fight goblins that are in the close vicinity, which is not realistic, unless one hits the war drum.
Originally Posted by Baraz
I was apprehensive, but it is a good survey.
Even if it focuses a lot on 5e implementation, it is fair enough.
Hopefully a good mix of players will respond.

EDIT 1 : the question about "no for-of-war" was a bit confusing for me. I presume it refers to the fact your camera can look everywhere.

EDIT 2 : The "engage all" was a bit surprising also. Some enemies that are near do not engage at all, so the question seemed biased towards claiming all enemies attack, which is not true at all. In the goblin camp (ruined Selune Temple) for example, you only fight goblins that are in the close vicinity, which is not realistic, unless one hits the war drum.


1- I guess the main problem is the lack of immersion of getting the upper hand in sight as you can see things out of the line of sight of your characters.

2- I see the problem of the question as the system is a little chaotic as it is. Some fights you get that battle spreading to the whole city like in the goblin city and sometimes you can pick a spot fight even being near other foes. For this question you need to think of what would be more reasonably for you: fight all or fight some of the foes in the proximity
What exactly are you trying to achieve with this survey? It isn't a good measure of the opinions of people who are playing the EA, because it has a very clear selection bias. Only the people who visit the feedback forum will even see it to begin with, which is a very small subset of the total number of people who are playing the EA. It is likely that there is also a non response bias here, as unless everyone who looked at this thread opened it 10 times, there is roughly 10 times as many views of the thread as responses.
Originally Posted by Sharp
What exactly are you trying to achieve with this survey? It isn't a good measure of the opinions of people who are playing the EA, because it has a very clear selection bias. Only the people who visit the feedback forum will even see it to begin with, which is a very small subset of the total number of people who are playing the EA. It is likely that there is also a non response bias here, as unless everyone who looked at this thread opened it 10 times, there is roughly 10 times as many views of the thread as responses.


Only Larian could made a better survey, but they don't wanna, so lets use what we have.
Not sure if this was the case just yesterday, but the ads on the result link immediately prompt me for an unavoidable "cleaner" app download. Huge red flag. I would avoid for now
Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Originally Posted by Sharp
What exactly are you trying to achieve with this survey? It isn't a good measure of the opinions of people who are playing the EA, because it has a very clear selection bias. Only the people who visit the feedback forum will even see it to begin with, which is a very small subset of the total number of people who are playing the EA. It is likely that there is also a non response bias here, as unless everyone who looked at this thread opened it 10 times, there is roughly 10 times as many views of the thread as responses.


Only Larian could made a better survey, but they don't wanna, so lets use what we have.


Except imo, the survey is completely unrepresentative of the opinions of the people who are playing the EA. The only thing we can claim with absolute certainty, is that it is representative of the people who both read the feedback forums and have enough interest to participate in these discussions.
Originally Posted by Sharp
Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Originally Posted by Sharp
What exactly are you trying to achieve with this survey? It isn't a good measure of the opinions of people who are playing the EA, because it has a very clear selection bias. Only the people who visit the feedback forum will even see it to begin with, which is a very small subset of the total number of people who are playing the EA. It is likely that there is also a non response bias here, as unless everyone who looked at this thread opened it 10 times, there is roughly 10 times as many views of the thread as responses.


Only Larian could made a better survey, but they don't wanna, so lets use what we have.


Except imo, the survey is completely unrepresentative of the opinions of the people who are playing the EA. The only thing we can claim with absolute certainty, is that it is representative of the people who both read the feedback forums and have enough interest to participate in these discussions.


True, however it is still a decent overview of how a group of people generally thinks about the EA. It's not an useless information, so long you keep in mind that it does not represent the entire population.
Originally Posted by Sharp
Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Originally Posted by Sharp
What exactly are you trying to achieve with this survey? It isn't a good measure of the opinions of people who are playing the EA, because it has a very clear selection bias. Only the people who visit the feedback forum will even see it to begin with, which is a very small subset of the total number of people who are playing the EA. It is likely that there is also a non response bias here, as unless everyone who looked at this thread opened it 10 times, there is roughly 10 times as many views of the thread as responses.


Only Larian could made a better survey, but they don't wanna, so lets use what we have.


Except imo, the survey is completely unrepresentative of the opinions of the people who are playing the EA. The only thing we can claim with absolute certainty, is that it is representative of the people who both read the feedback forums and have enough interest to participate in these discussions.


Lets tone down the hyperbole here, "completely unrepresentative"... I have opinions on the EA which I have played and filled out this survey so even assuming every other surveyor is a troll its an unreasonable assertion to make. SorcererVictor is spot on with "lets use what we have" if Larian comes out with one great then we can get much broader results. I thinks its unfair of you to lambast Sludge and his survey as if your very identity was being attacked by its results. You don't agree with it, great we hear you. For the most part disagree with the extreme you have taken your opinion to and I can at best agree with you that a Larian survey would be better.
Originally Posted by WinterbornGuard
Originally Posted by Sharp
Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Originally Posted by Sharp
What exactly are you trying to achieve with this survey? It isn't a good measure of the opinions of people who are playing the EA, because it has a very clear selection bias. Only the people who visit the feedback forum will even see it to begin with, which is a very small subset of the total number of people who are playing the EA. It is likely that there is also a non response bias here, as unless everyone who looked at this thread opened it 10 times, there is roughly 10 times as many views of the thread as responses.


Only Larian could made a better survey, but they don't wanna, so lets use what we have.


Except imo, the survey is completely unrepresentative of the opinions of the people who are playing the EA. The only thing we can claim with absolute certainty, is that it is representative of the people who both read the feedback forums and have enough interest to participate in these discussions.


Lets tone down the hyperbole here, "completely unrepresentative"... I have opinions on the EA which I have played and filled out this survey so even assuming every other surveyor is a troll its an unreasonable assertion to make. SorcererVictor is spot on with "lets use what we have" if Larian comes out with one great then we can get much broader results. I thinks its unfair of you to lambast Sludge and his survey as if your very identity was being attacked by its results. You don't agree with it, great we hear you. For the most part disagree with the extreme you have taken your opinion to and I can at best agree with you that a Larian survey would be better.


The Literary Digest Poll conducted in 1936, polled 2.4 million people and predicted Landon would win. In reality, Roosevelt won. The results were not even close to the prediction either. The irony is, it is 1 of the largest polls ever conducted and yet as a result of a sampling bias it was not representative of the population.

I don't need to create a survey to tell you that the majority of the controversy on this forum is about how faithfully the D&D rules are adopted as well as well as whether or not the rules are RtwP vs turn based, you can tell that just by looking at the threads. This survey tells you nothing we don't already know about this forum, which is my point, the forum is not representative of the game's population, in fact, its not even representative of all the people who read the forum, its only representative of those who respond. At no point did I assume that the people who were responding were trolls, I know that for the most part, the people responding genuinely held that opinion, I am just pointing out that this survey isn't useful for Larian, because we know that its biased to begin with and that for a player its only real purpose is to be incorrectly used as an argument point.
@Sharp The biggest take away from this though is not the results of the survey. Regardless of how representative or unrepresentative is it is survey results can be used to justify just about any perspective of an argument with the smallest amount of spin. I would say most of us appreciate this more as a nice overview of forum perspective without having to read through 100 pages of goop across different threads. I do understand exactly what your saying and I think the hope is less Larian needing to take this as gospel and more showing the importance of feedback economy and giving them a kick in the butt to take it seriously and actually do their own. More than anything this should serve as a motivator for them to invest in the questions and concerns that are being provided to them in their own feedback forum.
Mr Sharp. I’ve made my professional career (8 years) in market research.
I see that you are trying to discredit the research trying to prove that the sample is not representative. Well, I’m not selling this research and extrapolating to the whole universe of players. I simply dare you to say WHERE it’s said that the respondents were extrapolated to those 2 million customers.

I’m well aware (also the community) that the survey is biased as the population is solely this forum. The guys who answered the questionnaire seems to be well aware of that - they are not naive. Do not underestimate the community.

Finally but not less important, I’ve shared the prototype of the questions before launching it. I’m not native and the language is somehow problematic to me. So the wording might be confusing but I’ve asked for a total scrutiny.

I’d be happy to fill your survey if you launch one less biased. I’m doing this only because the brand is special to me.
A little late to the party but I participated.
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Mr Sharp. I’ve made my professional career (8 years) in market research.
I see that you are trying to discredit the research trying to prove that the sample is not representative. Well, I’m not selling this research and extrapolating to the whole universe of players. I simply dare you to say WHERE it’s said that the respondents were extrapolated to those 2 million customers.

I’m well aware (also the community) that the survey is biased as the population is solely this forum. The guys who answered the questionnaire seems to be well aware of that - they are not naive. Do not underestimate the community.

Finally but not less important, I’ve shared the prototype of the questions before launching it. I’m not native and the language is somehow problematic to me. So the wording might be confusing but I’ve asked for a total scrutiny.

I’d be happy to fill your survey if you launch one less biased. I’m doing this only because the brand is special to me.

I was not saying you were saying it was representative. I know you know it was not representative, considering in your post you made it very clear it was a sample of the forum population, case in point, here (emphasis added by me).
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid

REPORT (111 respondents) - 9.3 p.p error margin so far - Please, aid us to reach 500 respondents at least to get a 4p.p error margin - POPULATION - LARIAN FORUM

With that being said, I don't feel I am "misrepresenting" many of the people who are responding to it, because I have seen people use this survey's results as a point of contention in other discussions already, which was the only real reason I included the statement about bias in the first place. It was not aimed at you, it was aimed at anyone who does incorrectly make that assumption (assuming they even read the comments in the first place). In my opinion it would be good to add a minor note about this to your post, rather than to just assume that everyone knows it by default, because I can guarantee you that that is not the case.

My question to you was, what exactly are you trying to achieve with the survey? At the time I was initially responding, I couldn't really think of a good one. @WinterbornGuard above points out that it provides a summary of the forum's opinion for someone who does not want to read through it all and that is a fair point. Either way, it was more about personal curiosity as to the purpose of the survey than about being an attack on you, so maybe be less defensive?
Good on you Sludge for going to all the trouble.
Originally Posted by Sharp

My question to you was, what exactly are you trying to achieve with the survey? At the time I was initially responding, I couldn't really think of a good one.


Why not... just don't say anything and let them do their thing. The only thing you've achieved is negativity and drama. "Just pointing things out" and "being curious" is usually code for being critical for no conceivable benefit. What was your "best case" scenario? They take it down? Or that for some reason, people humor your lofty erudition, and someone on the internet would feel obligated to sate your scholarly needs? My god, people are self centered. Just...walk away. Let people live their lives. Its annoying reading this crap.
Originally Posted by Sharp
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Mr Sharp. I’ve made my professional career (8 years) in market research.
I see that you are trying to discredit the research trying to prove that the sample is not representative. Well, I’m not selling this research and extrapolating to the whole universe of players. I simply dare you to say WHERE it’s said that the respondents were extrapolated to those 2 million customers.

I’m well aware (also the community) that the survey is biased as the population is solely this forum. The guys who answered the questionnaire seems to be well aware of that - they are not naive. Do not underestimate the community.

Finally but not less important, I’ve shared the prototype of the questions before launching it. I’m not native and the language is somehow problematic to me. So the wording might be confusing but I’ve asked for a total scrutiny.

I’d be happy to fill your survey if you launch one less biased. I’m doing this only because the brand is special to me.

I was not saying you were saying it was representative. I know you know it was not representative, considering in your post you made it very clear it was a sample of the forum population, case in point, here (emphasis added by me).
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid

REPORT (111 respondents) - 9.3 p.p error margin so far - Please, aid us to reach 500 respondents at least to get a 4p.p error margin - POPULATION - LARIAN FORUM

With that being said, I don't feel I am "misrepresenting" many of the people who are responding to it, because I have seen people use this survey's results as a point of contention in other discussions already, which was the only real reason I included the statement about bias in the first place. It was not aimed at you, it was aimed at anyone who does incorrectly make that assumption (assuming they even read the comments in the first place). In my opinion it would be good to add a minor note about this to your post, rather than to just assume that everyone knows it by default, because I can guarantee you that that is not the case.

My question to you was, what exactly are you trying to achieve with the survey? At the time I was initially responding, I couldn't really think of a good one. @WinterbornGuard above points out that it provides a summary of the forum's opinion for someone who does not want to read through it all and that is a fair point. Either way, it was more about personal curiosity as to the purpose of the survey than about being an attack on you, so maybe be less defensive?


My bad. Language problem (again). Didn’t meant to be rude.

What I can say about my main intentions: quantify this community regarding opinions and thoughts as there’s always a lot of passion in peoples speech when they are trying to prove a point. From a professional perspective it’s simply horrible to translate that in real numbers.
I’ve heard that they might be gathering feedback from a great number of sources therefore I tried to summarize all the main suggestions and feedback in a single source (although I know it’s not complete) that could be representative to our community.

I’ve seen other posts using the results from the survey and I’m okay with that as long as we understand that this very forum is way more “technical”
than the others (reddit community for instance is happy to use the game as a medieval fantasy simulator). Thus, whenever we use that results we’ll be focusing in that niche of gamer that is above the average in understanding the game mechanics.





Oh, also when I’ve joined this community it just felt like home? I see that even when we disagree we’re respectful to each other. Our age average (research results) is above 32 years and that might be the reason.

So I wanted to retribute this kindness with something I like to do in my RL. (Even though I can admit I was a bit lazy to polish it)
Just ignore him, block him if you can. Enjoy your time here, a lot of people had fun with the survey, don't get dragged down in this stuff.
Originally Posted by Orbax
Just ignore him, block him if you can. Enjoy your time here, a lot of people had fun with the survey, don't get dragged down in this stuff.


Thank you for all the support, Orbax! Right now we’re sitting in 131 interviews . I’m too sleepy to share the results today but tomorrow I’ll share the updated version. I’ll spend some time finding a good website to host the results without that annoying ads.

Best regards
Larian created this forum only to take feedback. He is making Larian's work easy. Lets hope that at least one of the influential people at Larian reads this thread and realize taht everyone hated hp bloat
Amazing post!!
I'm really surprised by the percent of people who doens't watn RTwP.
Not because I'm stubborn.
But I just can't understand what is fun in a long fight consisting of "wait-hit-waiiiiiit-hit-waiiit-hit".
The fight against all the goblins made up my mind.
I mean, it's just the beginning, we're going to encounter ennemies, and sometimes lot of them, and sometimes lot of weaklings.
So please, someone have to tell me WHEN I will enjoy a loooooong and uninteresting turn-based fight againts tons of weaklings.

The point is RTwP is not antagonist with turn-based, it's, from my point of view, more like a complement, at least.

I enjoyed playing turn-base hard and intense fights. But really, this pointless fights during 10, 15, 20 minutes ? I can't get it and this is why I can't get how people can prefer turn-based over RTwP knowing RTwP is IN FACT turn-based !

In fact, in RTwP it's still about round and so you can have auto-pause each round, so RTwP is not being against turn-based fight, it's about being for more fluid battle and more freedom in the management of them.
I mean seriously, explain me where is the "strategy" and the "need" of turn-base fight when all you did during the fight is... hit and/or casting basic spells...

But I guess people like to suffer some boring fights or just waste time over it.

Not me and not what I like in videogames, especially this one.



@Zefhyr
Mass appeal means nothing and in the gaming industry it has been repeatedly proven that homogenization, mainstream appeal and streamlining kills games because more often than not the majority of the community don't know what they want. The best example of this is World of Warcraft.

World of Warcraft is Garbage - An Essay by Mash

That video will probably be polarizing for many people as the person that made it doesn't talk around the issue or sugar coat it and rather deep dives it and addresses it directly. I would recommend watching it for everyone regardless on what your stance is on the matter. Many people also do not understand how RTwP works and how the action economy was still working in RTwP but it sheds the limitations of tabletop by hiding all the artificial elements.

Dear all,

New results on the top page & here.

Now I'm using google drive to upload the files. There'll not be more ads anymore. Yet, I'd like to ask you to check if anyone can access the results.

Thank you!

SURVEY
https://forms.gle/irxYjGNPLrC4nhTW7

RESULTS
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sA_d36KJF54Xc4sw433ZYYR80u683YqV/view?usp=sharing


REPORT (138 respondents) - 8.3 p.p error margin so far - Please, aid us to reach 500 respondents at least to get a 4p.p error margin - POPULATION - LARIAN FORUM


WORDCLOUDS

Now, whats the first word that comes to your mind when you think about BG3 battle system?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xcJfOXnddvIuDigi2g9bKJwP75UpFD2V/view?usp=sharing

Now, whats the first word that comes to your mind when you think about BG3 graphics?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/13E7_iFCuRLimmc6ftVH-I25MUUfsGFn9/view?usp=sharing

Now, whats the first word that comes to your mind when you think about BG3 story?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ylzoedbnsYdDVIdxfaJVZR7Xz4N30kaP/view?usp=sharing
Argonaut, true but wow also killed the mmo genre. Before wow, we had ultima online and dark sun online crimson sands, games which are true RPG's. Now, mmos are all about farming gear and managing cooldowns. Extremely boring. SP games also got infected by wow plague and even tabletop like D&D 4e.

Skyrim is a huge success and is a dumbed down version of oblivion which is a dumbed down version of morrowind
Sludge, even though its a more volatile environment and you're going to be a whipping boy...https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/ might pump those response numbers up now that youve dialed in the survey a bit more. If youre worried about integrity it might be interesting to duplicate the survey and have a different host address and have a Larian, Reddit, Steam version to compare to by source and do a cross-sectional comparison.

Thanks for changing to Gdrive I forgot to respond lol, the hentai ads must have mind-wiped me, that was gonna be my suggestion. With Google Docs you can link a variety of things together in that space.

Also like to shout out to everyone who played Planescape: Torment. I ran my best D&D one-shot to date by lifting from it and introducing a new group of players to Sigil. If you haven't played it, yes its ungodly old, but the writing is great and you will learn a lot of cool lore. and if you just be patient, take the time, and zen clear your mind and accept the game as current, youll start to get a kick out of it. The new planescape is cool and has a great hook, but I think the first ones was better - you wake up, undead/was dead/still dead?, in a morgue, no memory, covered in tattoos you don't understand, in one of the craziest places youll ever see - Sigil.
WoW didn't kill MMO's it killed the competition because it was leagues ahead of everything that came before it or after it in every single way. Vanilla to WotLK pushed boundaries and blizzard made the very sound decision to hire elite players from end game guilds that proved they understood the mechanics better than the rest of the community and even most developers. You can put a nail in Blizzards acquisition by Activision in 2008 and as well as more Jay Wilson from D3 after the trainwreck he created to WoW development and you will notice that everything began to go downhill from there. WoW died because of the appeal to accessibility and homogenization and if you look at a graph of the player base you will notice that these trends align with the previous two events.

As far as Skyrim is concerned not only did it ride on the coattails of the jump in tech and player base but it is also saved by it's modding community. It did fix many issues the community had with the older games while remaining adherent to it's source and lore but it is also an ARPG and not an RPG. WoW was focused on RPG mechanics and a better comparison would be with TES Online which died when it started to screw with the lore and source material as well as suboptimal mechanics due to accessibility and optimization.
Originally Posted by Orbax
Sludge, even though its a more volatile environment and you're going to be a whipping boy...https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/ might pump those response numbers up now that youve dialed in the survey a bit more. If youre worried about integrity it might be interesting to duplicate the survey and have a different host address and have a Larian, Reddit, Steam version to compare to by source and do a cross-sectional comparison.

Thanks for changing to Gdrive I forgot to respond lol, the hentai ads must have mind-wiped me, that was gonna be my suggestion. With Google Docs you can link a variety of things together in that space.

Also like to shout out to everyone who played Planescape: Torment. I ran my best D&D one-shot to date by lifting from it and introducing a new group of players to Sigil. If you haven't played it, yes its ungodly old, but the writing is great and you will learn a lot of cool lore. and if you just be patient, take the time, and zen clear your mind and accept the game as current, youll start to get a kick out of it. The new planescape is cool and has a great hook, but I think the first ones was better - you wake up, undead/was dead/still dead?, in a morgue, no memory, covered in tattoos you don't understand, in one of the craziest places youll ever see - Sigil.


Ive thought several times in launching that survey in Reddit. I can definitely make a copy of it and post it there and probably I’ll receive so much downvotes for it that I’ll never make it to the top but I’ll give it a try.
I’m afraid the questions will be too technical to the average Reddit user? Maybe I should try to restructure the questions to be more detailed without losing the essence.
I’ve used to post it there my rational thinking, but instead of counter argumentation I’ve received many strikes. Do you realize that you are throwing me in a cage full of lions? :p

Hell yeah! Let’s go!!


Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by Orbax
Sludge, even though its a more volatile environment and you're going to be a whipping boy...https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/ might pump those response numbers up now that youve dialed in the survey a bit more. If youre worried about integrity it might be interesting to duplicate the survey and have a different host address and have a Larian, Reddit, Steam version to compare to by source and do a cross-sectional comparison.

Thanks for changing to Gdrive I forgot to respond lol, the hentai ads must have mind-wiped me, that was gonna be my suggestion. With Google Docs you can link a variety of things together in that space.

Also like to shout out to everyone who played Planescape: Torment. I ran my best D&D one-shot to date by lifting from it and introducing a new group of players to Sigil. If you haven't played it, yes its ungodly old, but the writing is great and you will learn a lot of cool lore. and if you just be patient, take the time, and zen clear your mind and accept the game as current, youll start to get a kick out of it. The new planescape is cool and has a great hook, but I think the first ones was better - you wake up, undead/was dead/still dead?, in a morgue, no memory, covered in tattoos you don't understand, in one of the craziest places youll ever see - Sigil.


Ive thought several times in launching that survey in Reddit. I can definitely make a copy of it and post it there and probably I’ll receive so much downvotes for it that I’ll never make it to the top but I’ll give it a try.
I’m afraid the questions will be too technical to the average Reddit user? Maybe I should try to restructure the questions to be more detailed without losing the essence.
I’ve used to post it there my rational thinking, but instead of counter argumentation I’ve received many strikes. Do you realize that you are throwing me in a cage full of lions? :p

Hell yeah! Let’s go!!




Haha, gamble and make a new user? Risk missing out on 5k karma but protect against -1k karma?

Ive read the sub, theres enough people to understand it I think. Even with confusion on some of the more nuanced questions, the big ones are clear and would be really interesting to see!
One of the interesting things in the results is that despite what you might read on the forums, most people are happy with the rules implementation and would recommend the game. There are things that people take issue with, but it doesn't affect their overall enjoyment of the game.
Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Argonaut, true but wow also killed the mmo genre. Before wow, we had ultima online and dark sun online crimson sands, games which are true RPG's. Now, mmos are all about farming gear and managing cooldowns. Extremely boring.


What is funny for being extremely boring a lot more people have decided that is what they want to play. So it's all opinions and some are popular and some are not.

True RPG imo that is hyperbole. They are just different from one another.
Originally Posted by Dulany67
One of the interesting things in the results is that despite what you might read on the forums, most people are happy with the rules implementation and would recommend the game. There are things that people take issue with, but it doesn't affect their overall enjoyment of the game.


Dulany, we share the same conclusions about the results in our forum.

At the same time there are many complaints about the game, it doesn't make it bad.
All the criticism that I found in this very forum are coming from people that simply want to make it a better game and to thrive.

Given the overall scenario, I’d say that currently we’re at a 6/10. It could be way better, still it is above the average.

I really liked DOS1. Simply hated DOS2. Wish to BG3 to be the best game of the decade.
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by Dulany67
One of the interesting things in the results is that despite what you might read on the forums, most people are happy with the rules implementation and would recommend the game. There are things that people take issue with, but it doesn't affect their overall enjoyment of the game.


Dulany, we share the same conclusions about the results in our forum.

At the same time there are many complaints about the game, it doesn't make it bad.
All the criticism that I found in this very forum are coming from people that simply want to make it a better game and to thrive.

Given the overall scenario, I’d say that currently we’re at a 6/10. It could be way better, still it is above the average.

I really liked DOS1. Simply hated DOS2. Wish to BG3 to be the best game of the decade.


Yes, if you look at my posting history, you would think I hate BG3. I LOVE it, I just want it to be even better! I have 140 hours played, no way I would be doing that for a game I hated.
Originally Posted by Horrorscope
Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Argonaut, true but wow also killed the mmo genre. Before wow, we had ultima online and dark sun online crimson sands, games which are true RPG's. Now, mmos are all about farming gear and managing cooldowns. Extremely boring.


What is funny for being extremely boring a lot more people have decided that is what they want to play. So it's all opinions and some are popular and some are not.

True RPG imo that is hyperbole. They are just different from one another.


Wrong. The mostp popular RPG's of the last decade, dark souls and skyrim din't had cooldowns or a endless gear farming focus. On CRPG's, Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous got more money on kickstarter than dos2. And I know a lot of people who HATED dos2 itemization, armor and cooldown mechanics who are hyped for BG3.
wow, 30% people like this character chaining, i knew some will like it, but i didn't expect that many tho
Originally Posted by Zefhyr
I'm really surprised by the percent of people who doens't watn RTwP.
Not because I'm stubborn.
But I just can't understand what is fun in a long fight consisting of "wait-hit-waiiiiiit-hit-waiiit-hit".
The fight against all the goblins made up my mind.
I mean, it's just the beginning, we're going to encounter ennemies, and sometimes lot of them, and sometimes lot of weaklings.
So please, someone have to tell me WHEN I will enjoy a loooooong and uninteresting turn-based fight againts tons of weaklings.

The point is RTwP is not antagonist with turn-based, it's, from my point of view, more like a complement, at least.

I enjoyed playing turn-base hard and intense fights. But really, this pointless fights during 10, 15, 20 minutes ? I can't get it and this is why I can't get how people can prefer turn-based over RTwP knowing RTwP is IN FACT turn-based !

In fact, in RTwP it's still about round and so you can have auto-pause each round, so RTwP is not being against turn-based fight, it's about being for more fluid battle and more freedom in the management of them.
I mean seriously, explain me where is the "strategy" and the "need" of turn-base fight when all you did during the fight is... hit and/or casting basic spells...

But I guess people like to suffer some boring fights or just waste time over it.

Not me and not what I like in videogames, especially this one.




You say its not because you are stubborn, but is it really?

The rules are written with a turn based game in mind. A round is 6 seconds so what would it add vs what it would take away? For fighters for example they would have a 6 second cooldown between attacks before they get multi attack. Wizards and other casters wouldnt be able to cast spells and move away to keep enemies out of melee range. Pretty much everything that was a.reaction would be tossed out of the window.

I could go on but I think my point is clear. Making it rtwp would introduce problems that turn based simply doesent have.
Originally Posted by Demoulius
Originally Posted by Zefhyr
I'm really surprised by the percent of people who doens't watn RTwP.
Not because I'm stubborn.
But I just can't understand what is fun in a long fight consisting of "wait-hit-waiiiiiit-hit-waiiit-hit".
The fight against all the goblins made up my mind.
I mean, it's just the beginning, we're going to encounter ennemies, and sometimes lot of them, and sometimes lot of weaklings.
So please, someone have to tell me WHEN I will enjoy a loooooong and uninteresting turn-based fight againts tons of weaklings.

The point is RTwP is not antagonist with turn-based, it's, from my point of view, more like a complement, at least.

I enjoyed playing turn-base hard and intense fights. But really, this pointless fights during 10, 15, 20 minutes ? I can't get it and this is why I can't get how people can prefer turn-based over RTwP knowing RTwP is IN FACT turn-based !

In fact, in RTwP it's still about round and so you can have auto-pause each round, so RTwP is not being against turn-based fight, it's about being for more fluid battle and more freedom in the management of them.
I mean seriously, explain me where is the "strategy" and the "need" of turn-base fight when all you did during the fight is... hit and/or casting basic spells...

But I guess people like to suffer some boring fights or just waste time over it.

Not me and not what I like in videogames, especially this one.




You say its not because you are stubborn, but is it really?

The rules are written with a turn based game in mind. A round is 6 seconds so what would it add vs what it would take away? For fighters for example they would have a 6 second cooldown between attacks before they get multi attack. Wizards and other casters wouldnt be able to cast spells and move away to keep enemies out of melee range. Pretty much everything that was a.reaction would be tossed out of the window.

I could go on but I think my point is clear. Making it rtwp would introduce problems that turn based simply doesent have.

Soloing last boss of Divinity Original Sin 2 with the cat - 1 turn kill
Turn based has no problems(tm)
Talk is cheap. Here is evidence that turn based is worse and creates more problems. The problems you mention where already addressed and fixed in 20 year old games FYI.

Demoulius.

No , really, I don't think I'm stubborn.
And I don't get the point of what you're explaining cause, again, BG 1 and 2 was kind of turn-based... It was round per round and all the things you said to be impossible was... possible obviously.
So it looks like you didn't read closely what I wrote (cause I already said RTwP is kind of urn-based, indeed you could in the option active an automatic pause each round so.... yeah turn-based mod activated), you explain something which, for my comprehension, is wrong. So your point is far from clear.

More, you didn't answer the question I asked.

To resume, you didn't answer my question (who was honest), you explain something I must have so misunderstood that it seems wrong and you doubt my openmindedness.
From my point of view, I'm a openminded guy who woul like to have a compromise about turn-based and RTwP and I feel with you as if I was facing a pretty stubborn turn-based fan making points by kind of authority argument, not minding to answer my actual question.


I hope my point is clear and don't hesitate to answer my question about the fun in the long and meaningless fights (I insist on this point).


PS: it's funny to say "Making it rtwp would introduce problems that turn based simply doesent have" when RTwP is actually turn-based and the precedent game was RTwP.
The problem with this survey is that the majority who participated in it knows D&D 5e, which is the opposite of the actual player base. Therefore, I suggest to separate statistics for: newbies to D&D 5e, D&D 5e adepts, and D&D 5e zealots (people who answered that they want D&D 5e without any or with minimal home rules (scores 8 or higher) in BG3).
Something you should also look at as you cite other games for their mastery of the craft is copies sold.

Dragon Age - 3.2 million
BG 2 - 2 million
Pathfinder Kingmaker - 1.2 million
DOS2 - 1 million
Icewind Dale - 1 million
POE 2 - 700,000
Pillars of eternity 1 - 500,000
Baldurs gate 1 - 500,000
Planescape: Torment - 400,000
Torment: Tides of Numenera - 250,000
Wasteland - 250,000
Icewind Dale - 150,000
Originally Posted by Maerd
The problem with this survey is that the majority who participated in it knows D&D 5e, which is the opposite of the actual player base. Therefore, I suggest to separate statistics for: newbies to D&D 5e, D&D 5e adepts, and D&D 5e zealots (people who answered that they want D&D 5e without any or with minimal home rules (scores 8 or higher) in BG3).

OP has somewhat already done this
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Here's the average comparing the results of people who are familiar with DnD5e (YES) vs (NO)

https://imgur.com/KAcSU4N

But yes OP, if you can include up-to-date versions of this table in the pdf, or even better highlight all the data in the bar graphs/pie charts by people answering yes vs no, that'd be great!
Originally Posted by Maerd
The problem with this survey is that the majority who participated in it knows D&D 5e, which is the opposite of the actual player base. Therefore, I suggest to separate statistics for: newbies to D&D 5e, D&D 5e adepts, and D&D 5e zealots (people who answered that they want D&D 5e without any or with minimal home rules (scores 8 or higher) in BG3).


Yeah you're going to need to cite some actual evidence for that.

Casual reminder that the *ONLY* reason this game is being made is because Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 were both so popular *AND* had monumentally dedicated communities to a D&D video game that is over 20 years old. The only reason you're playing this game is because people like D&D. If you want to play a game that ignores the rules of 5e, go ahead, pick up DoS 2 or DoS 3 whenever it is made. Larian decided to market the game as a D&D game based on the 5th Edition of the rules, so that should be the expectations for the game.
Orbax,
10 million for DOS2 ? Are you sure ?
that said, itcan be interesting to compare but it's perillous at the same time. Indeed it's complicated to compare the sales of games edited in many different years. I mean the market wasn't the same 20 years ago obviously.
Originally Posted by Zefhyr
Orbax,
10 million for DOS2 ? Are you sure ?
that said, itcan be interesting to compare but it's perillous at the same time. Indeed it's complicated to compare the sales of games edited in many different years. I mean the market wasn't the same 20 years ago obviously.


Im not sure, I dont know what the heck I read lol. I fixed it. Its 1 million copies sold - as of november 2017. Im trying to find current numbers
Hi guys,

Research is online in Reddit as well,
Wish me luck and just a few downvotes


Orbax,
OK, I thougth so it was really amazing sales stats ! xD
I'll answer on the toher topic soon, promess. I'll just take time to process and think carefully before writing.
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Hi guys,

Research is online in Reddit as well,
Wish me luck and just a few downvotes



I seeded it with optimism haha, see if that helps. And an award, what the heck right?!


Originally Posted by Orbax
Originally Posted by Zefhyr
Orbax,
10 million for DOS2 ? Are you sure ?
that said, itcan be interesting to compare but it's perillous at the same time. Indeed it's complicated to compare the sales of games edited in many different years. I mean the market wasn't the same 20 years ago obviously.


Im not sure, I dont know what the heck I read lol. I fixed it. Its 1 million copies sold - as of november 2017. Im trying to find current numbers


SteamSpy points something between 2 and 5 mio coppies for DOS2. A good quantity by the way. Yet, comparing the scenario of BG2 related to gaming penetration in the world in the 2000's I'd say that BG2 could possibly be 10 times bigger than DOS2? (Sludge assumption).

I'm usualy avoiding the direct relation of number of number of games sold vs quality.


Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by Orbax
Originally Posted by Zefhyr
Orbax,
10 million for DOS2 ? Are you sure ?
that said, itcan be interesting to compare but it's perillous at the same time. Indeed it's complicated to compare the sales of games edited in many different years. I mean the market wasn't the same 20 years ago obviously.


Im not sure, I dont know what the heck I read lol. I fixed it. Its 1 million copies sold - as of november 2017. Im trying to find current numbers


SteamSpy points something between 2 and 5 mio coppies for DOS2. A good quantity by the way. Yet, comparing the scenario of BG2 related to gaming penetration in the world in the 2000's I'd say that BG2 could possibly be 10 times bigger than DOS2? (Sludge assumption).

I'm usualy avoiding the direct relation of number of number of games sold vs quality.




gaming culture, proliferation of capable PCs.. the numbers are muddy, but it does at least show that Larian, for a tough genre, holds up pretty darn well and isn't a david v goliath battle against the untouchable gods of yesteryear. COD at 250 million copies and Halo has sold over 65 million so we aren't going to talk about how people in general spend their time lol
Originally Posted by Orbax
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Hi guys,

Research is online in Reddit as well,
Wish me luck and just a few downvotes



I seeded it with optimism haha, see if that helps. And an award, what the heck right?!




Already received your energy, lol
/u/Orbax liked your submission so much that they've given it the Take My Energy Award.

As a reward, you get the special Take My Energy Award icon on your submission. Very dapper.
Originally Posted by Orbax
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by Orbax
Originally Posted by Zefhyr
Orbax,
10 million for DOS2 ? Are you sure ?
that said, itcan be interesting to compare but it's perillous at the same time. Indeed it's complicated to compare the sales of games edited in many different years. I mean the market wasn't the same 20 years ago obviously.


Im not sure, I dont know what the heck I read lol. I fixed it. Its 1 million copies sold - as of november 2017. Im trying to find current numbers


SteamSpy points something between 2 and 5 mio coppies for DOS2. A good quantity by the way. Yet, comparing the scenario of BG2 related to gaming penetration in the world in the 2000's I'd say that BG2 could possibly be 10 times bigger than DOS2? (Sludge assumption).

I'm usualy avoiding the direct relation of number of number of games sold vs quality.




gaming culture, proliferation of capable PCs.. the numbers are muddy, but it does at least show that Larian, for a tough genre, holds up pretty darn well and isn't a david v goliath battle against the untouchable gods of yesteryear. COD at 250 million copies and Halo has sold over 65 million so we aren't going to talk about how people in general spend their time lol


DAMN 250 copies for COD? And I was amazed of CD's Witcher 3 hitting 50 milion mark.
Now I somehow understand why some of the players treat the game as a fantasy character simulator and that's the solely reason for them to like the game :p




Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid

DAMN 250 copies for COD? And I was amazed of CD's Witcher 3 hitting 50 milion mark.
Now I somehow understand why some of the players treat the game as a fantasy character simulator and that's the solely reason for them to like the game :p



As of February 2016, the series has sold over 250 million copies*


Originally Posted by Isaac Springsong

Yeah you're going to need to cite some actual evidence for that.


Just look for number of people who play RPGs in Youtube. Compare those numbers with people who play or discuss D&D on Youtube. You can clearly see that D&D doesn't represent the majority of CRPG players.


Quote
Casual reminder that the *ONLY* reason this game is being made is because Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 were both so popular *AND* had monumentally dedicated communities to a D&D video game that is over 20 years old.


Causual reminder, kiddo, that when I played BG2 (I didn't know BG1 existed before playing BG2) on release, I was already an adult. I didn't care about D&D and loved the game because of the plot, gameplay, and attention to details by Bioware and Interplay/Black Isle Studio. BG3 is being made because the success of DOS2 caused WotC marketing team considered that it would be beneficial to attract attention of the DOS2 fan base to D&D 5e system, which will result in better sales after BG3 release (if the BG3 becomes a successful game).

Quote
The only reason you're playing this game is because people like D&D.


No. It's because people liked BG2. On the contrary, the success of BG2 caused my interest in the AD&D 2e because I wanted more BG2 experience.

Quote

If you want to play a game that ignores the rules of 5e, go ahead, pick up DoS 2 or DoS 3 whenever it is made. Larian decided to market the game as a D&D game based on the 5th Edition of the rules, so that should be the expectations for the game.

Don't you worry, I can decide what to play for myself without your advice.

"Causual reminder, kiddo, that when I played BG2 (I didn't know BG1 existed before playing BG2) on release, I was already an adult. I didn't care about D&D and loved the game because of the plot, gameplay, and attention to details by Bioware and Interplay/Black Isle Studio. BG3 is being made because the success of DOS2 caused WotC marketing team considered that it would be beneficial to attract attention of the DOS2 fan base to D&D 5e system, which will result in better sales after BG3 release (if the BG3 becomes a successful game)."

Larian won it over Obsidian as WotSC liked their idea better. Had a lot less to do with the games they made. (Larian DoS series and Obsidian PoE series). Both studios had pitched ideas and Larian got picked after Obsidian was turned down. Not saying the games had zero to do with it just not majority reason.
Originally Posted by WinterbornGuard
"Causual reminder, kiddo, that when I played BG2 (I didn't know BG1 existed before playing BG2) on release, I was already an adult. I didn't care about D&D and loved the game because of the plot, gameplay, and attention to details by Bioware and Interplay/Black Isle Studio. BG3 is being made because the success of DOS2 caused WotC marketing team considered that it would be beneficial to attract attention of the DOS2 fan base to D&D 5e system, which will result in better sales after BG3 release (if the BG3 becomes a successful game)."

Larian won it over Obsidian as WotSC liked their idea better. Had a lot less to do with the games they made. (Larian DoS series and Obsidian PoE series). Both studios had pitched ideas and Larian got picked after Obsidian was turned down. Not saying the games had zero to do with it just not majority reason.


Obsidian isnt a slouch either, has a lot of employees from Black Isle studios who:

Developed
Fallout (1997)
Fallout 2 (1998)
Planescape: Torment (1999)
Icewind Dale (2000)
Icewind Dale: Heart of Winter (2001)
Icewind Dale: Heart of Winter - Trials of the Luremaster (2001)
Icewind Dale II (2002)
Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance II (2004)

Published
Baldur's Gate (1998)
Baldur's Gate: Tales of the Sword Coast (1999)
Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn (2000)
Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance (2001)
Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance II (2004)
Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal (2001)
Lionheart: Legacy of the Crusader (2003)
Originally Posted by Orbax
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid

DAMN 250 copies for COD? And I was amazed of CD's Witcher 3 hitting 50 milion mark.
Now I somehow understand why some of the players treat the game as a fantasy character simulator and that's the solely reason for them to like the game :p



As of February 2016, the series has sold over 250 million copies*




Sure about that? I think you picked up an additional 0 again wink

-> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games


Looks more like the whole franchise sold that number.
Originally Posted by biomag
Originally Posted by Orbax
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid

DAMN 250 copies for COD? And I was amazed of CD's Witcher 3 hitting 50 milion mark.
Now I somehow understand why some of the players treat the game as a fantasy character simulator and that's the solely reason for them to like the game :p



As of February 2016, the series has sold over 250 million copies*




Sure about that? I think you picked up an additional 0 again wink

-> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games


Looks more like the whole franchise sold that number.


Im just trusting google :p

[Linked Image]


I think 250 mil is the combined sales of all games in the franchise.
Originally Posted by Maerd
I think 250 mil is the combined sales of all games in the franchise.


I will be gracious and allow you to combine the BG1/2 sales together grin
Yeah, I googled it and actually when you expand the answers it says 250 is for the whole franchise. Witcher 3 has not 50 million either, its for the whole franchise (if even, I would have to check that) wink
Originally Posted by Orbax

I will be gracious and allow you to combine the BG1/2 sales together grin

What's the point? Simple games will always be more popular than complex games.
Originally Posted by biomag
Yeah, I googled it and actually when you expand the answers it says 250 is for the whole franchise. Witcher 3 has not 50 million either, its for the whole franchise (if even, I would have to check that) wink


The main point was it was at least 1 metric Fk Ton (in British pounds) of sales relative to some of our most beloved games. Within our hallowed grounds, we ignore the stumping footsteps of the cyclopean cave dwellers below as they vie for the honor of mating with the UrFatBtchMom, goddess of duodecumus males, and instead focus on the weaving of tales. The Tapestry that is eternally woven from each of its 20 sides inward, some threads destroyed, others drawn into others' tales as the murmurs of the onlookers are snatched from the air and spun into gossamers of gold, silver, and brass. Ages pass sometimes between a weaver's passing and another taking their place. The Tapestry's abrupt lines between crown and shield show that not all tales can be continued but that the weaving will, it must.
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by Orbax
Sludge, even though its a more volatile environment and you're going to be a whipping boy...https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/ might pump those response numbers up now that youve dialed in the survey a bit more. If youre worried about integrity it might be interesting to duplicate the survey and have a different host address and have a Larian, Reddit, Steam version to compare to by source and do a cross-sectional comparison.

Thanks for changing to Gdrive I forgot to respond lol, the hentai ads must have mind-wiped me, that was gonna be my suggestion. With Google Docs you can link a variety of things together in that space.

Also like to shout out to everyone who played Planescape: Torment. I ran my best D&D one-shot to date by lifting from it and introducing a new group of players to Sigil. If you haven't played it, yes its ungodly old, but the writing is great and you will learn a lot of cool lore. and if you just be patient, take the time, and zen clear your mind and accept the game as current, youll start to get a kick out of it. The new planescape is cool and has a great hook, but I think the first ones was better - you wake up, undead/was dead/still dead?, in a morgue, no memory, covered in tattoos you don't understand, in one of the craziest places youll ever see - Sigil.


Ive thought several times in launching that survey in Reddit. I can definitely make a copy of it and post it there and probably I’ll receive so much downvotes for it that I’ll never make it to the top but I’ll give it a try.
I’m afraid the questions will be too technical to the average Reddit user? Maybe I should try to restructure the questions to be more detailed without losing the essence.
I’ve used to post it there my rational thinking, but instead of counter argumentation I’ve received many strikes. Do you realize that you are throwing me in a cage full of lions? :p

Hell yeah! Let’s go!!




Reddit does a Friday Feedback thread thing, which is great. I linked your survey post there in the latest installment to help out - the subreddit has some 54000+ members and around 2000 active at any point, which is a very healthy number. There are tons of suggestions there that are basically identical to ones in here. Bringing all the feedback to one place would be terrific.

For some reason people treat the subreddit as an official feedback place for everything from suggestions to bug reports. Perhaps it's a part of the reddit sickness of thinking everyone read everything over there. I like reddit, but bringing all that feedback over here is in everyones best interest, I think.
Originally Posted by ChickenInSpace
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by Orbax
Sludge, even though its a more volatile environment and you're going to be a whipping boy...https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/ might pump those response numbers up now that youve dialed in the survey a bit more. If youre worried about integrity it might be interesting to duplicate the survey and have a different host address and have a Larian, Reddit, Steam version to compare to by source and do a cross-sectional comparison.

Thanks for changing to Gdrive I forgot to respond lol, the hentai ads must have mind-wiped me, that was gonna be my suggestion. With Google Docs you can link a variety of things together in that space.

Also like to shout out to everyone who played Planescape: Torment. I ran my best D&D one-shot to date by lifting from it and introducing a new group of players to Sigil. If you haven't played it, yes its ungodly old, but the writing is great and you will learn a lot of cool lore. and if you just be patient, take the time, and zen clear your mind and accept the game as current, youll start to get a kick out of it. The new planescape is cool and has a great hook, but I think the first ones was better - you wake up, undead/was dead/still dead?, in a morgue, no memory, covered in tattoos you don't understand, in one of the craziest places youll ever see - Sigil.


Ive thought several times in launching that survey in Reddit. I can definitely make a copy of it and post it there and probably I’ll receive so much downvotes for it that I’ll never make it to the top but I’ll give it a try.
I’m afraid the questions will be too technical to the average Reddit user? Maybe I should try to restructure the questions to be more detailed without losing the essence.
I’ve used to post it there my rational thinking, but instead of counter argumentation I’ve received many strikes. Do you realize that you are throwing me in a cage full of lions? :p

Hell yeah! Let’s go!!




Reddit does a Friday Feedback thread thing, which is great. I linked your survey post there in the latest installment to help out - the subreddit has some 54000+ members and around 2000 active at any point, which is a very healthy number. There are tons of suggestions there that are basically identical to ones in here. Bringing all the feedback to one place would be terrific.

For some reason people treat the subreddit as an official feedback place for everything from suggestions to bug reports. Perhaps it's a part of the reddit sickness of thinking everyone read everything over there. I like reddit, but bringing all that feedback over here is in everyones best interest, I think.



Definitely, ChickenInSpace. Going for the Reddit was a smart decision as the sample just skyrocketed.

Please, find their results:


Link to results (421 interviewees - Error Margin 4.8p.p - POPULATION: REDDIT) :
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VWtKnvaXpC0y0j0h7syEGXSC2H92MmKt/view?usp=sharing




Well guys, I cant edit the OP main post any further (maybe there is a limitation in number of days to edit?). That will be somehow troublesome to share the results in a easy way, as we'll have to force the Forum user to dive deep into the pages.

If you have time to do it, please add the link of the most updated version under your comments in the bottom line of your post to make the life of our colleagues easier.









This is a fantastic way to quantify data, good set of questions. +1.
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by ChickenInSpace
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by Orbax
Sludge, even though its a more volatile environment and you're going to be a whipping boy...https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/ might pump those response numbers up now that youve dialed in the survey a bit more. If youre worried about integrity it might be interesting to duplicate the survey and have a different host address and have a Larian, Reddit, Steam version to compare to by source and do a cross-sectional comparison.

Thanks for changing to Gdrive I forgot to respond lol, the hentai ads must have mind-wiped me, that was gonna be my suggestion. With Google Docs you can link a variety of things together in that space.

Also like to shout out to everyone who played Planescape: Torment. I ran my best D&D one-shot to date by lifting from it and introducing a new group of players to Sigil. If you haven't played it, yes its ungodly old, but the writing is great and you will learn a lot of cool lore. and if you just be patient, take the time, and zen clear your mind and accept the game as current, youll start to get a kick out of it. The new planescape is cool and has a great hook, but I think the first ones was better - you wake up, undead/was dead/still dead?, in a morgue, no memory, covered in tattoos you don't understand, in one of the craziest places youll ever see - Sigil.


Ive thought several times in launching that survey in Reddit. I can definitely make a copy of it and post it there and probably I’ll receive so much downvotes for it that I’ll never make it to the top but I’ll give it a try.
I’m afraid the questions will be too technical to the average Reddit user? Maybe I should try to restructure the questions to be more detailed without losing the essence.
I’ve used to post it there my rational thinking, but instead of counter argumentation I’ve received many strikes. Do you realize that you are throwing me in a cage full of lions? :p

Hell yeah! Let’s go!!




Reddit does a Friday Feedback thread thing, which is great. I linked your survey post there in the latest installment to help out - the subreddit has some 54000+ members and around 2000 active at any point, which is a very healthy number. There are tons of suggestions there that are basically identical to ones in here. Bringing all the feedback to one place would be terrific.

For some reason people treat the subreddit as an official feedback place for everything from suggestions to bug reports. Perhaps it's a part of the reddit sickness of thinking everyone read everything over there. I like reddit, but bringing all that feedback over here is in everyones best interest, I think.



Definitely, ChickenInSpace. Going for the Reddit was a smart decision as the sample just skyrocketed.

Please, find their results:


Link to results (421 interviewees - Error Margin 4.8p.p - POPULATION: REDDIT) :
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VWtKnvaXpC0y0j0h7syEGXSC2H92MmKt/view?usp=sharing






You're welcome!

While I'm sad to see how many are fine with a party of just four, it does highlight how troublesome many of the homebrew stuff they're doing are.

At a first glance there also seem to be a large discrepancy behind how people rate individual homebrew rules (overall poorly) compared to how the overall DnD ruleset is implemented (rather well). This makes my brain go all kinds of ???

If I'm not mistaken, it also seems like pretty much all the DOS-shenanigans are generally disliked.
Originally Posted by ChickenInSpace


At a first glance there also seem to be a large discrepancy behind how people rate individual homebrew rules (overall poorly) compared to how the overall DnD ruleset is implemented (rather well). This makes my brain go all kinds of ???


I think it's likely that there are individual changes that people dislike, but they are not as concerned with the changes as a whole.
Really nice survey.
Originally Posted by Dulany67
Originally Posted by ChickenInSpace


At a first glance there also seem to be a large discrepancy behind how people rate individual homebrew rules (overall poorly) compared to how the overall DnD ruleset is implemented (rather well). This makes my brain go all kinds of ???


I think it's likely that there are individual changes that people dislike, but they are not as concerned with the changes as a whole.


This is a technique in research that it’s used to detach the overall experience from the attributes. If we had went by just asking : do you like it yes or no, you’d have lost the nuances of the game. In customers experience feedback it’s like asking: do you like your Ferrari? And then asking: do you think your car seat is comfortable? They are extremely related but at the same time they’re not :p

The whole is important but if you want a masterpiece the attributes are a must.

Additionally, I appreciate our team work. This is not sludge’s work, this is a community work and the research would not be good without your feedback and inputs. I was merely a channel to centralize it.
Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Originally Posted by Horrorscope
Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Argonaut, true but wow also killed the mmo genre. Before wow, we had ultima online and dark sun online crimson sands, games which are true RPG's. Now, mmos are all about farming gear and managing cooldowns. Extremely boring.


What is funny for being extremely boring a lot more people have decided that is what they want to play. So it's all opinions and some are popular and some are not.

True RPG imo that is hyperbole. They are just different from one another.


Wrong. The mostp popular RPG's of the last decade, dark souls and skyrim din't had cooldowns or a endless gear farming focus. On CRPG's, Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous got more money on kickstarter than dos2. And I know a lot of people who HATED dos2 itemization, armor and cooldown mechanics who are hyped for BG3.


Nice how you simply pivoted from talking directly about mmo's on to something else. Way to do me like that.
I just did the parallax alt-tab switching to compare the reddit results v forum results...pretty interesting. My armchair takeaways:

- This forum has a more experienced genre gaming community
- This forum has a decent amount more D&D experience
- Reddit, on the whole, had a more positive opinion and experience. I didn't see any areas where Reddit was more critical of the game than these forums.
- The positive shift that Reddit has regarding homebrew D&D rules is far greater than the disparity of D&D experience but correlates much more strongly to the lack of experience of games played that utilize D&D mechanics.
- The forums, probably partially due to smaller sample, have much less consensus on Combat Balance and Freedom.
- I thought surprising similarity to class balance question given the difference on the combat experience question - seems like your experience in combat would be linked to class efficacy.
- Surfaces! Wow, considering Reddit's overwhelming DOS2 dominance as a previous game played, with little other game experience in the genre...same opinion as this forum on surfaces.
- Stealth - another interesting parity between the two. Again, considering how you could do things in DOS2, the questionable execution of what you are allowed to do with it in this seems to hit the same "yeah, we probably shouldnt be able to do that" point.
- Shove - middle crowd didn't change but the people with strong opinions were, again, on the "10" side for reddit and "1" for forums almost in a mirrored flip with a 4% deviation
- Disengage - again, similar. I think the game experience doesnt matter here as it is purely a D&D mechanic and seems to be agreed that this isn't how it should be.
- High ground / Backstab - Reddit has majority positive at 7/8. Forums majority is 1, averaging around 2.
- Dips and cantrips, generally disliked. Same Reddit positive shift, though.
- AC low HP High - BIG difference. Lot of people are OK with it in Reddit. Forums are frothing at the concept.
- Items/arrow - Reddit generally OK, not enthused, Forums negative shift to generally disliked.
- Rest/ targeting - generally the same. Reddit more OK with it, Forums dislike
- Fog of war - middle crowd ok and similar. Forums 1's are Reddits 10's
- Companions - Reddit generally likes them. Forums lack any strong consensus, but generally slightly likes.
- Chaining - Forums, 60+ dislike, Reddit 50/50
- Item management - lol Forums - 80% dislike v Reddit 60%
- peaceful solutions / RTWP - Generally the same, with Reddit positive shift

Reddit is a happier, less critical place than these forums @@


The positive shift on Reddit compared to here is interesting. Probably explained by overall slightly more casual audience, since it's a big website with all kinds of nerds, while these forums are for Larian/BG3 nerds. It's easier to just stop by a subreddit than some forums which are a completely separate website than one might usually use.

However, neither these forums or reddit represent a casual audience or the majority of playerbase. I would say Larian would get much more accurate data with in-game surveys. Of course, that's not to say these results don't matter, as they have said they look at the forums and the subreddit both.
Originally Posted by denhonator
The positive shift on Reddit compared to here is interesting. Probably explained by overall slightly more casual audience, since it's a big website with all kinds of nerds, while these forums are for Larian/BG3 nerds. It's easier to just stop by a subreddit than some forums which are a completely separate website than one might usually use.

However, neither these forums or reddit represent a casual audience or the majority of playerbase. I would say Larian would get much more accurate data with in-game surveys. Of course, that's not to say these results don't matter, as they have said they look at the forums and the subreddit both.


If Larian had a weekly survey that was similar to this that popped up it would probably be helpful to them. Or bi-weekly. Mainly at the launch of a patch and before a new one to see how much was "rabble rabble! Change! Rabble!" and "Ok, now that I've used it a bit..."

Then again theres a lot of "You'd think Larian would..." generally haha so...
Originally Posted by Orbax
I just did the parallax alt-tab switching to compare the reddit results v forum results...pretty interesting. My armchair takeaways:

- This forum has a more experienced genre gaming community
- This forum has a decent amount more D&D experience
- Reddit, on the whole, had a more positive opinion and experience. I didn't see any areas where Reddit was more critical of the game than these forums.
- The positive shift that Reddit has regarding homebrew D&D rules is far greater than the disparity of D&D experience but correlates much more strongly to the lack of experience of games played that utilize D&D mechanics.
- The forums, probably partially due to smaller sample, have much less consensus on Combat Balance and Freedom.
- I thought surprising similarity to class balance question given the difference on the combat experience question - seems like your experience in combat would be linked to class efficacy.
- Surfaces! Wow, considering Reddit's overwhelming DOS2 dominance as a previous game played, with little other game experience in the genre...same opinion as this forum on surfaces.
- Stealth - another interesting parity between the two. Again, considering how you could do things in DOS2, the questionable execution of what you are allowed to do with it in this seems to hit the same "yeah, we probably shouldnt be able to do that" point.
- Shove - middle crowd didn't change but the people with strong opinions were, again, on the "10" side for reddit and "1" for forums almost in a mirrored flip with a 4% deviation
- Disengage - again, similar. I think the game experience doesnt matter here as it is purely a D&D mechanic and seems to be agreed that this isn't how it should be.
- Dips and cantrips, generally disliked. Same Reddit positive shift, though.
- AC low HP High - BIG difference. Lot of people are OK with it in Reddit. Forums are frothing at the concept.
- Items/arrow - Reddit generally OK, not enthused, Forums negative shift to generally disliked.
- Rest/ targeting - generally the same. Reddit more OK with it, Forums dislike
- Fog of war - middle crowd ok and similar. Forums 1's are Reddits 10's
- Companions - Reddit generally likes them. Forums lack any strong consensus, but generally slightly likes.
- Chaining - Forums, 60+ dislike, Reddit 50/50
- Item management - lol Forums - 80% dislike v Reddit 60%
- peaceful solutions / RTWP - Generally the same, with Reddit positive shift

Reddit is a happier, less critical place than these forums @@




There’s one missing attribute evaluation that you forgot and I’d like to hear your opinion - the nemesis - highground & backstab advantage.
I’d say that in that ground is where the differences get interesting! Giving the scenario: everyone hates missing, am I right? The advantage system in BG3 is way more frequent given the scenario (highground is abundant in every landscape) and that’s being used to grant that desired “playability”. The game itself as it is right now in the early access makes it difficult to the average player to understand what are the impacts of that advantage spree because they do not have access to Barbarians, fearie Fire and so on. Therefore it’s hard to capture the impact in the long run. On the other hand, Forum being more technical, they are already aware of the impacts and foresee the amount of work that will be needed to adjust it (And my humble opinion is that this thing should be removed from the game, getting back the cover system to the stage)

Nevertheless, my conclusions are the same as yours! Very well described.




Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid


There’s one missing attribute evaluation that you forgot and I’d like to hear your opinion - the nemesis - highground & backstab advantage.
I’d say that in that ground is where the differences get interesting! Giving the scenario: everyone hates missing, am I right? The advantage system in BG3 is way more frequent given the scenario (highground is abundant in every landscape) and that’s being used to grant that desired “playability”.


I updated my comment, Reddit is 8 on backstab/advantae, Forums 2 average with majority in 1. The only thing I can think of there is that it is a D&D mechanic and, as far as gaming, using terrain and environment to get advantages is more tactically enjoyable. It is odd though, where we saw disengage being generally disliked and it is a purely D&D mechanic, the deviation fit within the D&D experience deviation; we see advantage being inexplicably more positive beyond any correlations in disparity on experience in gaming and D&D. I wonder what would happen if you didn't lump backstab in with height. The reason I say this is backstab is a staple ability of rogues in most games and would probably be viewed as "yeah, thats what rogues do...". The elevation for advantage might be the more controversial one, but with backstab giving you such a ridiculous damage output, it might be disregarding the elevation part entirely. Anecdotally, new D&D players tend to play edgelord rogues and in gaming the class is a perennial DPS class - if you have a healer its a hard one to turn down. So, my unfounded opinion is that question is getting answered as "do you like backstab" and brushes aside the elevation portion.


Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid

On the other hand, Forum being more technical...


I don't know if Id go that far :p

People here discuss many things and I think most of those that answer the survey are ""usual"" forum user. By usual, I mean that they read topics and compare their opinions to others to try to understand things from different points of view.

Reddit is just a fastfood like facebook... You give your opinion, up or down posts without reading any comments... I know people like to easily open their mouth without thinking that much... But if social media become "the people's voices", we're all lost... Ho wait......

That said, I'm not saying everyone's opinion there is uninterresting of course, but I'm not sure that the trend on these media is a garantee of quality...

This was totally off topic, sry.
Also I’d like to state that are unknown forces downvoting my survey In Reddit for reasons I don’t clearly know. laugh
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
People here discuss many things and I think most of those that answer the survey are ""usual"" forum user. By usual, I mean that they read topics and compare their opinions to others to try to understand things from different points of view.

Reddit is just a fastfood like facebook... You give your opinion, up or down posts without reading any comments... I know people like to easily open their mouth without thinking that much... But if social media become "the people's voices", we're all lost... Ho wait......

That said, I'm not saying everyone's opinion there is uninteresting of course, but I'm not sure that the trend on these media is a guarantee of quality...

This was totally off topic, sry.


Its easy to outgroup "them" at Reddit, but with r/dnd at 2.1 million users doing 400 posts and 3000 comments a day I still have a LOT of suuuuuuuuuuuper nerdy and technical conversations with plenty of people. The casuals are probably not commenting and taking surveys, so there is that to consider.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/co...share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

and to be frank, because who doesnt want to be Frank Drebin, I haven't seen much of a difference on D&D knowledge here than the average r/dnd post.

Im not saying Im an expert, listen to me!,but I feel comfortable enough with the time I have in the D&D world to at least keep my opinion fairly objective looking at commentary [Linked Image]. I dont track my PnP time so who knows :p

The r/gaming community, on the other hand. Yeah, if this got dumped in there, Id light it on fire, put it in a sack, light the sack on fire, through it in a river, drown the river, then put it in on fire sack and throw it into the sun.

Subs, however, tend to draw different crowds. Im not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I might posit that the difference might be simply be people who prefer smaller communities, people who think that by being here they have a more visible and preferred voice, or simply prefer forums to Reddit. I don't know how much faith I would put in that we all get gold badges because we were smart enough to come here and the unwashed masses took their Red Badges and go roll around in the Reddit mud in ignorant bliss laugh
Originally Posted by Orbax
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
People here discuss many things and I think most of those that answer the survey are ""usual"" forum user. By usual, I mean that they read topics and compare their opinions to others to try to understand things from different points of view.

Reddit is just a fastfood like facebook... You give your opinion, up or down posts without reading any comments... I know people like to easily open their mouth without thinking that much... But if social media become "the people's voices", we're all lost... Ho wait......

That said, I'm not saying everyone's opinion there is uninteresting of course, but I'm not sure that the trend on these media is a guarantee of quality...

This was totally off topic, sry.


Its easy to outgroup "them" at Reddit, but with r/dnd at 2.1 million users doing 400 posts and 3000 comments a day I still have a LOT of suuuuuuuuuuuper nerdy and technical conversations with plenty of people. The casuals are probably not commenting and taking surveys, so there is that to consider.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/co...share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

and to be frank, because who doesnt want to be Frank Drebin, I haven't seen much of a difference on D&D knowledge here than the average r/dnd post.

Im not saying Im an expert, listen to me!,but I feel comfortable enough with the time I have in the D&D world to at least keep my opinion fairly objective looking at commentary [Linked Image]. I dont track my PnP time so who knows :p

The r/gaming community, on the other hand. Yeah, if this got dumped in there, Id light it on fire, put it in a sack, light the sack on fire, through it in a river, drown the river, then put it in on fire sack and throw it into the sun.

Subs, however, tend to draw different crowds. Im not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I might posit that the difference might be simply be people who prefer smaller communities, people who think that by being here they have a more visible and preferred voice, or simply prefer forums to Reddit. I don't know how much faith I would put in that we all get gold badges because we were smart enough to come here and the unwashed masses took their Red Badges and go roll around in the Reddit mud in ignorant bliss laugh


Let me spicy things a little bit. I’ve always used Reddit from the outside. Never wanted to create an account and so. I’m not that type of social media guy which means I don’t usually expose my opinion among strangers.

Then the Early Access came out. I’ve played the game, beaten the first chap and it felt so cheap. I really disliked it. I really felt that a lot of stuff was poorly made and my expectations where destroyed within 1 week.

I’ve noticed that there’s no real open channel to debate the game then decided to join Reddit to share my opinions. The way it felt after sharing my thoughts were like an invisible wall pushing me out of the community. The community is ruthless if you think differently and sometimes even disrespectful as there’s no real moderator there. My point is that it’s easy to be discouraged to debate thoughts and ideas in a community like that. No critical thinking flourishes in that wild environment.

Sound like everyone is saying: shhhhh don’t badmouth Larian services to the humankind otherwise they’ll cancel the game.

That’s where my argument that the forum is more technical came from. At least here we're discussing and not attacking each other. I can wholeheartedly disagree with Orbax but in the end of the day we’ll be sharing a dwarven ale.
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by Orbax
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
People here discuss many things and I think most of those that answer the survey are ""usual"" forum user. By usual, I mean that they read topics and compare their opinions to others to try to understand things from different points of view.

Reddit is just a fastfood like facebook... You give your opinion, up or down posts without reading any comments... I know people like to easily open their mouth without thinking that much... But if social media become "the people's voices", we're all lost... Ho wait......

That said, I'm not saying everyone's opinion there is uninteresting of course, but I'm not sure that the trend on these media is a guarantee of quality...

This was totally off topic, sry.


Its easy to outgroup "them" at Reddit, but with r/dnd at 2.1 million users doing 400 posts and 3000 comments a day I still have a LOT of suuuuuuuuuuuper nerdy and technical conversations with plenty of people. The casuals are probably not commenting and taking surveys, so there is that to consider.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/co...share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

and to be frank, because who doesnt want to be Frank Drebin, I haven't seen much of a difference on D&D knowledge here than the average r/dnd post.

Im not saying Im an expert, listen to me!,but I feel comfortable enough with the time I have in the D&D world to at least keep my opinion fairly objective looking at commentary [Linked Image]. I dont track my PnP time so who knows :p

The r/gaming community, on the other hand. Yeah, if this got dumped in there, Id light it on fire, put it in a sack, light the sack on fire, through it in a river, drown the river, then put it in on fire sack and throw it into the sun.

Subs, however, tend to draw different crowds. Im not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I might posit that the difference might be simply be people who prefer smaller communities, people who think that by being here they have a more visible and preferred voice, or simply prefer forums to Reddit. I don't know how much faith I would put in that we all get gold badges because we were smart enough to come here and the unwashed masses took their Red Badges and go roll around in the Reddit mud in ignorant bliss laugh


Let me spicy things a little bit. I’ve always used Reddit from the outside. Never wanted to create an account and so. I’m not that type of social media guy which means I don’t usually expose my opinion among strangers.

Then the Early Access came out. I’ve played the game, beaten the first chap and it felt so cheap. I really disliked it. I really felt that a lot of stuff was poorly made and my expectations where destroyed within 1 week.

I’ve noticed that there’s no real open channel to debate the game then decided to join Reddit to share my opinions. The way it felt after sharing my thoughts were like an invisible wall pushing me out of the community. The community is ruthless if you think differently and sometimes even disrespectful as there’s no real moderator there. My point is that it’s easy to be discouraged to debate thoughts and ideas in a community like that. No critical thinking flourishes in that wild environment.

Sound like everyone is saying: shhhhh don’t badmouth Larian services to the humankind otherwise they’ll cancel the game.

That’s where my argument that the forum is more technical came from. At least here we're discussing and not attacking each other. I can wholeheartedly disagree with Orbax but in the end of the day we’ll be sharing a dwarven ale.


Haha, well cheers to that! I think part of it is the "When the cats away, the mice will play" thing. WIth no real moderation in Reddit forums barring something HEINOUS, you'll just get some nerd raging on you and if they just go low road people tend to Jerry Springer around it pretty hard. That with collapsing trees also makes comments get buried. Forums you actually have to read everything. Or skip it all and your post on page 5 is a repeat of everything thats already been said already and people ignore it. Its a balance between mods, jerks, post/comment volume, and message structure. Ive wished we could upvote comments here several times, but it would need to no weight them and float them to the top. The medium changes the message for sure!
After spend some time in the r\bg3 section I begin to understand why r\baldursgate distanced himself in long way from them.
Originally Posted by arion
After spend some time in the r\bg3 section I begin to understand why r\baldursgate distanced himself in long way from them.


I can 100% understand you!

& Orbax, I guess the problems are the downvotes? They simply push you away of the mainstream frown
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by arion
After spend some time in the r\bg3 section I begin to understand why r\baldursgate distanced himself in long way from them.


I can 100% understand you!

& Orbax, I guess the problems are the downvotes? They simply push you away of the mainstream frown


yeah, its screaming into the void a lot. The fact you can get buried and then auto-hidden with enough downvotes makes it hard. Sociology plays a lot into going "-8 downvotes? Yeah i guess that is kind of a shit post *downvote*".

My particular commenting patterns are in modules like tomb of annihilation, DMing advice, and D&D mechanics so they are usually a more interested subgroup. I have 0 desire to try to actually make a post in that forum and have it do well. For having 11k+ karma, ive made less than 20 posts in 6 years haha.
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid

That’s where my argument that the forum is more technical came from. At least here we're discussing and not attacking each other. I can wholeheartedly disagree with Orbax but in the end of the day we’ll be sharing a dwarven ale.


I see plenty of attacking in these forums too, I don't find that aspect to be any better than on Reddit. But let's not get too off topic
Originally Posted by denhonator
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid

That’s where my argument that the forum is more technical came from. At least here we're discussing and not attacking each other. I can wholeheartedly disagree with Orbax but in the end of the day we’ll be sharing a dwarven ale.


I see plenty of attacking in these forums too, I don't find that aspect to be any better than on Reddit. But let's not get too off topic


Lets not talk about JDCranton behind his back. I think the difference is the moderation I mentioned. You dont get posts here in the format of:

"Hey, can you even see your dk you chair whale? How much sweat did you have to replace with day old coffee thats been sitting on your desk for the last 2 days as your cheeto covered little pigfingers rattled out that string of pure BS? I looked at your profile, between your anime watching and what I can only assume is a prurient interest in fedoras, I don't think anyone should be listening to a functionally paraplegic basement dwelling weeb like you when it comes to understanding the social nuances of a game like D&D that requires friends. Here, Ill save you some time plural noun: friends; plural noun: Friends 1. a person whom one knows and with whom one has a bond of mutual affection, typically exclusive of sexual or family relations."


So the dialog, even if aggressive at times, is nothing like the mosh pit of the Reddit groups haha.
Originally Posted by Orbax
Reddit is a happier, less critical place than these forums @@


I've found that to be the case when there are both and each is active. I notice it the most with sports team, reddit is surprisingly pleasant, dedicated sites each and every everything is meticulously talked about and no one is spared. To those that are happy joy's that can't handle it, I try to steer them for their own sake to reddit, it would just be a happier match.
Just looked at the results again. Its pretty solid. Take whatever this forum thinks, and make it 30% more positive. If there are extremes, turn the forums 1s into Reddits 10s.
As a heads up: Despite the choices, and despite the data, there is a lot of room to take that is subjective, into the questions. Like asking one word to describe this or that, when you need more than one word. And no way to contextualize that word with any of the other questions.

Or asking somewhat baited questions, like homebrew ac < hp when there is nothing saying/showing it is a homebrew. Or no fog of war when there is one (you don't see units/objects until you reveal them, and they disappear when you go far away)

I get the need for data, however, I feel there needs to be more questions to build a contextual picture for each point, or the option for opinions for each question..
I would say it meets at least the goal of being thought provoking and discussion worthy while having gotten some actual data points ^.^

English is not his first language, and there are some challenges there, and I think a more comprehensive one could be made. Go into a chinese forum and make a survey for them and let me know how good they think you did :p For a first blush, lets see if anyone will even take the thing, hes at almost 700 people replied so thats pretty cool. I think people wanting to change and add is a good thing, means its in the right direction and there is interest. A v2 survey that builds on this and breaks questions done more granularly, cleans up some of the wording that is just a language barrier, things like that would go over well in both arenas after this is taken a look at and it feels like another 500 people wouldnt really change the answers, so what are our takeaways kind of thing.
This post needs more votes!
OMG I see I submited your bog standard reply even on first words! And here I was thinking that part is gonna give you so many variables it's gonna be absolutely useless.
What surprised me is most people are happy with the party of 4 and RTWP bunch being in such minority. Good job!
Originally Posted by Azarielle
OMG I see I submited your bog standard reply even on first words! And here I was thinking that part is gonna give you so many variables it's gonna be absolutely useless.
What surprised me is most people are happy with the party of 4 and RTWP bunch being in such minority. Good job!


Let's nuance things a bit about party size.
More than 40% is not really such a minority. It means than 4 players out of 10 aren't satisfied. Not that the 60 other % wouldn't enjoy 1 (or more) slots.

About TB yea, I was one of the most dissapointed at the beginning but I love many TB games and I've made up my mind.
Just signed up to take this quiz... Here's hoping they have a look. Very interesting results.
Also signed for this. How could they not see it? smile
But will they listen? :O
I’ll update both results today by the end of the day - both communities
Glad to see you are interested in our feedback!
One of the more interesting points of this survey to me at least is the disparity of people that claim to be familiar with the 5e ruleset (87%) vs the number of people that have played the table top (73%). Are those 14% of people who are familiar but haven't played it getting that from actually reading the books, or is it from listening to podcasts, many of which have been homebrewed and aren't a great representation of the actual ruleset. I mean I really like The Adventure Zone, but let's be honest.. that was a really loose interpretation of the rules specifically to enhance the story aspects. If that were someone's familiarity with the ruleset, I'd say they really aren't that familiar with it.
Its probably 2 late but should of asked people ideal party size
Great idea with such pole, hopefully Larian will take a look on it and provide some changes to the game.

Originally Posted by Khultak
One of the more interesting points of this survey to me at least is the disparity of people that claim to be familiar with the 5e ruleset (87%) vs the number of people that have played the table top (73%). Are those 14% of people who are familiar but haven't played it getting that from actually reading the books, or is it from listening to podcasts, many of which have been homebrewed and aren't a great representation of the actual ruleset.


Well for example there might be lots of people who familiar via reading ruleset etc, but played in previous editions.
Originally Posted by sumoman
Great idea with such pole, hopefully Larian will take a look on it and provide some changes to the game.

Originally Posted by Khultak
One of the more interesting points of this survey to me at least is the disparity of people that claim to be familiar with the 5e ruleset (87%) vs the number of people that have played the table top (73%). Are those 14% of people who are familiar but haven't played it getting that from actually reading the books, or is it from listening to podcasts, many of which have been homebrewed and aren't a great representation of the actual ruleset.


Well for example there might be lots of people who familiar via reading ruleset etc, but played in previous editions.


If you are familiar with previous editions, is it really that hard to pick up the differences- even without reading the books? I mean "familiar" is not "expert." Though I did have to read about concentration, as well as ask forum guys about spell slots.
Can we see the new results yet?!
SURVEY
https://forms.gle/irxYjGNPLrC4nhTW7

RESULTS
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IgN2IAZi8Hho6X_7XpiW-0N_cUYEJvX8/view?usp=sharing - LARIAN

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sip8wb8Yu1-N1FC7dDY72RJewnu3hqvz/view?usp=sharing - REDDIT



REPORT (501 respondents) - 4.4 p.p error margin so far - POPULATION - LARIAN FORUM
REPORT (569 respondents) - 4.1 p.p error margin so far - POPULATION - REDDIT

WORDCLOUDS BOTH LARIAN & REDDIT > 1000 INTERVIEWS !!!

Now, whats the first word that comes to your mind when you think about BG3 battle system?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cn0ZXsNYKTtbtIevis9RYCuUV8irk881/view?usp=sharing

Now, whats the first word that comes to your mind when you think about BG3 graphics?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OUnqbYucVTrxT25xbQdmgZ07HFgwOK-P/view?usp=sharing

Now, whats the first word that comes to your mind when you think about BG3 story?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nfiqvvFQx7wo3vYIM_2xGTcBdbDZOF-n/view?usp=sharing
Good job, hope Larian will take a look at it and i hope they will empower us with options to tailor the game to our individual likings.
should not be to hard to implement an option to tun on/off eviromental effects from spells/cantrips etc..
The updated results are very interesting. Reddit is definitely more positive about the game. But it's nice to see there are rating for things like surfaces, cantrips, stealth, disengage, items, and a few others where both sets of data are very similar and the majority fall in to the dissatisfied half.
Originally Posted by Nezix
The updated results are very interesting. Reddit is definitely more positive about the game. But it's nice to see there are rating for things like surfaces, cantrips, stealth, disengage, items, and a few others where both sets of data are very similar and the majority fall in to the dissatisfied half.


I was surprised by the shift in the positiveness of Reddit compared to the previous version. With this higher sample they moved toward the center of the ratings.

It’s also very amusing that summing the results from more than 1000 interviews, the most repeated word mentioned was Divinity in the word cloud.
And I’m not even considering DOS3, DOS2, etc.
is this a bad thing? Dunno . But it does show that they could’ve done a better job in the battle identity.
On reddit, people are far more casual. And Larian is far more beloved there
Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
On reddit, people are far more casual. And Larian is far more beloved there


I don't know if there is any actual basis for that opinion. The only thing in the survey that was seen was less familiarity with the genre

Larian | Reddit % played
DOS 1/2: 89 | 87
DAO: 82 | 80
BG1/2: 70 | 53
NWN: 62 | 46
Fallout:46 | 38
------
Icewind Dale: 46 | 28
Torment: 42 | 26
Wasteland: 30 | 22

And we see the biggest split happen at the bottom in what were niche games - Icewind, Torment, and Wasteland. You may have loved them, but they were not block busters in how many people play them.

With an average of about 10% difference in play experience on the major games and a ONE% difference in those who have played D&D that does not support a 30% difference and a 1 -> 10 flip on hate/love decisions at all by tacking it to experience. From what I can see. Anecdotally, being on both forums, I would not walk away and say only smart, technical, experienced, knowledgeable people are on here or even say that the comments reflect a majority of more experienced individuals.
Originally Posted by Orbax
Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
On reddit, people are far more casual. And Larian is far more beloved there


I don't know if there is any actual basis for that opinion. The only thing in the survey that was seen was less familiarity with the genre

Larian | Reddit % played
DOS 1/2: 89 | 87
DAO: 82 | 80
BG1/2: 70 | 53
NWN: 62 | 46
Fallout:46 | 38
------
Icewind Dale: 46 | 28
Torment: 42 | 26
Wasteland: 30 | 22

And we see the biggest split happen at the bottom in what were niche games - Icewind, Torment, and Wasteland. You may have loved them, but they were not block busters in how many people play them.

With an average of about 10% difference in play experience on the major games and a ONE% difference in those who have played D&D that does not support a 30% difference and a 1 -> 10 flip on hate/love decisions at all by tacking it to experience. From what I can see. Anecdotally, being on both forums, I would not walk away and say only smart, technical, experienced, knowledgeable people are on here or even say that the comments reflect a majority of more experienced individuals.






BG1/2 and FNV aren't that behind DOS1/2 either.

I an pretty sure that this questionaire if posted on GoG and Steam would have different results.
Based off of the 1 time we have moved outside of the forums, and it being different, I would say we have equal odds of it being the same or different. It feels likely, but that is also based on nothing, and nothing in the data is showing a strong correlation to explain current differences.
Originally Posted by Orbax
Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
On reddit, people are far more casual. And Larian is far more beloved there


I don't know if there is any actual basis for that opinion. The only thing in the survey that was seen was less familiarity with the genre

Larian | Reddit % played
DOS 1/2: 89 | 87
DAO: 82 | 80
BG1/2: 70 | 53
NWN: 62 | 46
Fallout:46 | 38
------
Icewind Dale: 46 | 28
Torment: 42 | 26
Wasteland: 30 | 22

And we see the biggest split happen at the bottom in what were niche games - Icewind, Torment, and Wasteland. You may have loved them, but they were not block busters in how many people play them.

With an average of about 10% difference in play experience on the major games and a ONE% difference in those who have played D&D that does not support a 30% difference and a 1 -> 10 flip on hate/love decisions at all by tacking it to experience. From what I can see. Anecdotally, being on both forums, I would not walk away and say only smart, technical, experienced, knowledgeable people are on here or even say that the comments reflect a majority of more experienced individuals.







Orbax, based in the assumptions that Larian & Reddit sources are not that different from a technical perspective, I’d say that probably the memes outshine deep discussions in Reddit. Does that make consistent feedback gathering harder? Definitely.
@Sludge Khalid

I asked this before, but can you post updated tables of results comparing average responses from people who said they are familiar with D&D rules vs those who aren't? Those tables were very interesting.

Keep up the good work!
I think meme rate is more of a measure 1. The Karma farming aspect of reddit - there is no upside to doing that here - and 2. Fear of moderator activity more than a measure of anyone's natural proclivity towards doing such. Memes also have a ton of information in them. They hit on commonly held beliefs like the guy looking back meme who is an NPC and the rest of the part is next to him and hes rubbernecking Gale. They aren't useless, but it is definitely a different format and more difficult to scrape. They require analysis as opposed to giving one, but that isn't to say they are without merit or information laugh
Originally Posted by mrfuji3
@Sludge Khalid

I asked this before, but can you post updated tables of results comparing average responses from people who said they are familiar with D&D rules vs those who aren't? Those tables were very interesting.

Keep up the good work!


I confess that I got a little bit tired of uploading the research every single day but now we’re reaching the sample maturity. I’ll use that data I’ve gathered to cross them in some special ways like: BG3 satisfaction for those who played bg1/2. Also, DnD5e knowledge vs satisfaction and so on.
Those crossings are somehow more boring to do, because I’ll have to open the power point and build the charts. Currently I’m being as lazy as possible using only the charts generated by google forms :p
Originally Posted by Orbax
I think meme rate is more of a measure 1. The Karma farming aspect of reddit - there is no upside to doing that here - and 2. Fear of moderator activity more than a measure of anyone's natural proclivity towards doing such. Memes also have a ton of information in them. They hit on commonly held beliefs like the guy looking back meme who is an NPC and the rest of the part is next to him and hes rubbernecking Gale. They aren't useless, but it is definitely a different format and more difficult to scrape. They require analysis as opposed to giving one, but that isn't to say they are without merit or information laugh


Indeed. Guess I’m too grumpy as I dislike 99% of the memes there. Perhaps Reddit isn’t for me my fellow comrade.
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by mrfuji3
@Sludge Khalid

I asked this before, but can you post updated tables of results comparing average responses from people who said they are familiar with D&D rules vs those who aren't? Those tables were very interesting.

Keep up the good work!


I confess that I got a little bit tired of uploading the research every single day but now we’re reaching the sample maturity. I’ll use that data I’ve gathered to cross them in some special ways like: BG3 satisfaction for those who played bg1/2. Also, DnD5e knowledge vs satisfaction and so on.
Those crossings are somehow more boring to do, because I’ll have to open the power point and build the charts. Currently I’m being as lazy as possible using only the charts generated by google forms :p


I fully understand. You of course don't need to make these tables immediately. Just at some point, presented with your final results, it'd be great to see the differences between the two populations
I’ll spend some time in the weekend to do it wink
I'd like my original survey removed; i have a new perspective of the game now lol. it's still over all good but it's way more critical. should i wait for v2.0?
Originally Posted by Popsculpture
I'd like my original survey removed; i have a new perspective of the game now lol. it's still over all good but it's way more critical. should i wait for v2.0?


I’m sorry but we can’t change googleforms answers frown
Next survey maybe.
I'll wait rather than doing a second form; don't want to mess the numbers up
Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
On reddit, people are far more casual. And Larian is far more beloved there


Define casual? Casual is a label we use when someone has less experience with a game than you. It doesn't mean anything and likely changes from game to game.
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by Orbax
I think meme rate is more of a measure 1. The Karma farming aspect of reddit - there is no upside to doing that here - and 2. Fear of moderator activity more than a measure of anyone's natural proclivity towards doing such. Memes also have a ton of information in them. They hit on commonly held beliefs like the guy looking back meme who is an NPC and the rest of the part is next to him and hes rubbernecking Gale. They aren't useless, but it is definitely a different format and more difficult to scrape. They require analysis as opposed to giving one, but that isn't to say they are without merit or information laugh


Indeed. Guess I’m too grumpy as I dislike 99% of the memes there. Perhaps Reddit isn’t for me my fellow comrade.



I dont like most of them either, dont worry haha
https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGat..._medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Well, if they only read megs threads, I think we are all screwed for feedback.

*picks hat up off the table and puts it on. Opens door and grimaces distastefully as a blast of cold air swirls in. *

I guess I'll see you all on page 312 of the infinite megathread.

*the door closes with a soft thud, once again trapping the silence in the small lodge
Originally Posted by Orbax
https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGat..._medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Well, if they only read megs threads, I think we are all screwed for feedback.

*picks hat up off the table and puts it on. Opens door and grimaces distastefully as a blast of cold air swirls in. *

I guess I'll see you all on page 312 of the infinite megathread.

*the door closes with a soft thud, once again trapping the silence in the small lodge



Oh yeah, gathering feedback in their own forum would be way too mainstream
If you could share a mug of beer with Swen, what would you suggest?

Give it to Obsidian kthxbye
Now that Obsidian and InExile are part of one big company they could use the microsoft money to convince WotC to let them do something in Sigil again
On topic: Only a quarter of the reddit dwellers have played PST. Do we need a reddit mission to spread awareness of PST there?
Originally Posted by Sludge Khalid
Originally Posted by Orbax
https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGat..._medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Well, if they only read megs threads, I think we are all screwed for feedback.

*picks hat up off the table and puts it on. Opens door and grimaces distastefully as a blast of cold air swirls in. *

I guess I'll see you all on page 312 of the infinite megathread.

*the door closes with a soft thud, once again trapping the silence in the small lodge



Oh yeah, gathering feedback in their own forum would be way too mainstream



One thing you guys might have not realized DOS:2 "feedback" has gathered in 4 YEARS less threads than BG3 in a month.

With a new, better game goes the expectation of a bigger playerbase. But if you sell a part of your game for full price you don't expect to outsell your previous success in a week.

The point is.... we wrote MORE than anyone wrote about DOS:2 since it was released as an EA. There's no fucking way they were ready for this. I think their feedback management might get a bit better over time especially they already have 80 + pages from discord, reddit and this forum.
Originally Posted by virion


The point is.... we wrote MORE than anyone wrote about DOS:2 since it was released as an EA. There's no fucking way they were ready for this. I think their feedback management might get a bit better over time especially they already have 80 + pages from discord, reddit and this forum.



The bigger question is what they are going to read. If you were Larian, which areas would you focus on:

[Linked Image]
Originally Posted by Orbax
Originally Posted by virion


The point is.... we wrote MORE than anyone wrote about DOS:2 since it was released as an EA. There's no fucking way they were ready for this. I think their feedback management might get a bit better over time especially they already have 80 + pages from discord, reddit and this forum.



The bigger question is what they are going to read. If you were Larian, which areas would you focus on:

[Linked Image]






Well I would totally focus on the compendium and that's why they have them to begin with.

We do have the " Mega Threads" section and only a couple of major subjects there so I think they are reviewing those too. After all they are filtered by moderators beforehand and normally free of " autism screech". RTwP vs TB being the exception compared to others. The compendium is waaaay cleaner with bulletpoints etc.

One thing to note is we have roughly 50k comments out of 1million + sold copies. Which means less than 5% of the community left a comment(Less than 5% aka probably around 10k people MAX).

We are literally ignorable by my standards.
Yeah, I hate to admit it, but pretty much the only reason I post here is to chat with you bastards. I just can't convince myself any of this is getting read... this is all just academic. As a DM, the conversations are thought provoking for what makes a good D&D story and a game fun, so it I think its just a good exercise in general to look at this stuff. Changing the game though? Nah. I've found the compendium/megathreads to be shallow and not address the larger issues which are fundamental philosophies and root cause analysis to explain chronic symptoms and how to fix them. They are the discussions someone would have in a meeting over this stuff and trying to incorporate this kind of feedback within what look to be agile dev cycles is not something that functions well.

Agile development methodology is iterative, not innovative. As soon as press "go" your deviation from origin is necessarily bounded by the myopic fog of war. They try to break epics and stuff down, but overall I have never found Agile to be an architects tool. Agile teams are what execute their slice of the vision. I am having a hard time imagining them rewriting anything fundamental as they most like have their 3,6,9, and 12 month plans mapped out with a 1 year countdown clock ticking away. Go back to square one and re-examine their fundamental approach to this? Hard sell. 1 million copies and a high rating on steam? Right now their buzzword is "Kaching" not "Rewrite". They have very little reason to truly care.

So, enjoy the chatrooms, I mean threads, and keep on keepin' on : D
i dont think i really disagree with the points you made in your post - altho tbh im not necessarily sure what you are driving at beyond adding your voice to what i would call a general sentiment in the forums that at this stage of the games development and considering the limited responses thus far from larian related to the forum's 'hot topics' that larian has a 'set in stone' vision for bg3 and significant changes to mechanics or rewrites of characters or narrative at this stage is probly unlikely (altho your post does come off a bit like trolling, but maybe that was also the goal lol wink ) - but i just wanted to highlight your quote below, bc i just think if this truly is the sentiment/stance that larian takes (even if its behind closed doors) its just a sad way to treat your community and fans, both old and new alike, so i hope its not the case. personally, i do think that there are some game mechanics and narrative points that should be addressed, but we'll likely have to wait until full launch to see how it all comes together
Originally Posted by Orbax
They have very little reason to truly care.
Its the difference between a hungry indie studio / dev & getting established. Halo blew the gaming world up when it came out. The studio was fun, interesting, and engaging. If we exclude rabid fans who think Halo 152 is so different and whoa, never seen this before!, the studio got stale after Halo 2. They ended their game, however, with the message "Help us take over the world!". How far they had come from "I hope we can do great things together."

If you watch the indie game the movie, it follows 3 indie devs. One guy said he would literally kill himself, and I believe him, if his game didn't do well. There is a thirst that some companies have and it usually takes the form of engagement. Some studios like Bioware earned a mandate on ME2&3 (forget about the end, was a good game). Andromeda wasn't their main studio and by then EA had bent the main studio over the barrel to spawn Anthem. They lost their autonomy they had fought so hard to earn.

What I am seeing here is a bizarre mandate feeling where its mainly "we are making this, we know you want it" and help us tweak it. I don't know if they know or are just ignoring the level of concern that there is over this. WotC didn't give it to them for 3 years or something because they said "go earn the right". Getting access to the right means you have to earn it all over again. If this bombs Id probably not buy a DOS3, Id wave them off as out of touch and repetitive.

I will amend my statement to "In the short run, they have very little reason to care". They are going to make their money on this. CEO can retire. The devs? Probably not. Will the studio survive a reinvestment of proceeds into another clone? The long run economics on this are concerning for the studio. This is going to be a bubble game that doesn't have any strong predictors of the future success if it doesn't have a differentiated product. Which, right now it isn't. Its a pig wearing D&D lipstick (not that bad, just felt like using the saying). Right now D&D is the more compelling part of this. If it was Blurplorps & Hengits I'd care...so...little. I happen to know the Shadovar that get mentioned in the arcane tower, I know theyre netherese casters. I can tie snippets of all of this into disgusting amounts of personal knowledge of D&D lore. If the note had said "I found some snurkbles" Id be like cool, wow this game has no story.

So, while I have 270+ hours in this, it was mainly because I enjoy testing things and its an entertaining enough platform to try a bunch of stuff and have enough "sweet, i CAN do that!" moments to be enjoyable. I overall think they have shot themselves in the foot this first month, and they are down to only 11 prior to launch now. Thats not a long time and they have WAY more of this game built already than EA. Major course corrections would have to be implemented across hundreds of fights and scenarios.

So - why care? Right now? Short run - they will sell, they will make money. Hands down. This is just too big of a property for it to not suck in a given number of people. 1 million EA is an example of that. Short run why NOT to care - ticking clock. What does changing REALLY get them in the short run? A miserable, frantic, and bug ridden mess from, tinkering under the hood on core issues. The timelines are going to be too tight to introduce haste into the dev process without truly measure the unintended consequences and the inability to have the time to adequately test. The reasons to care in the long run are much more expansive but the short run needs of creating a product preclude some of the things that make the long run so important. They have no reason to not care in the long other than this is seen as a the golden goose being planned with future expansions until the well dries out and by 2025 Larian is a name of the past.

100% speculation, yes its negative, but from everything I heard about previous titles compared to this, their attitude has changed to what all of this means and their position as to what they are delivering. Even doing horizontal comparisons to other games with short EA, EA, and extended EA, they are the lowest ranking for what you typically look at for EA - engagement, the appetite for scale of change, and what % of nuts are on bandsaw. Its an odd juxtaposition of variables and responses and I, Orbax the dumb guy, cannot find the magic hidden variable that makes it all make sense.
appreciate the follow-up - i agree with alot of your points regarding the realities of game development and publishing and where we are with larian at this stage and where we are likely to end up (can be frustrating at the same time tho lol)
Originally Posted by Orbax
I, Orbax the dumb guy
i dont think your dumb, wink
@Orbax:
Well we'll see. The fact is this silence can mean a lot of things including the fact they are seriously considering certain changes and want to test things out before they actually comment on any thing. Remember they were buried under more money and feedback they imagined. ^^

Also Sven said , I quote " We will stop working on making BG3 when we run out of money*laught *".

We know they won't run out of money so let's keep the working part on xD

Also remember the "1 year EA" is taken based of DOS2. It's not DOS2. They are probably aiming for it, yes. But they can reconsider and give themselves a few more months, they never announced a release date. And they never made a title so big.

If i worked for Larian and read the last posts i would eat my keyboard tbh ^^
Haha, I've said many times I acknowledge the potential for me being incorrect. I wouldn't say I have HOPE that it is different, but I am intellectually prepared and willing, desiring even, to accept things to the positive. When I say "Care" I mean at the business & economy level. I am sure the individuals there are passionate, excited, and all have plastic swords and helmets at their desks and there is the occasional Nerf Gun fight in the halls as Sven wheels around on a segway cum chariot or something. People won't read what I wrote and say "He is right, I / we dont care". Its the project board where the 4 epics and 500 stories that are assigned out to teams getting funneled through Kanban procedures that doesn't care. It is the investors, producers, managers, and accountants that say "the reality is...". We can point to CD Projekt Red if we want, but also realize there are some fairly significant differences in their ground up engine build, hard core devs, Cinderella Story. People are giving them a lot of latitude because its never been done before, the goals breathtakingly aggressive, and a hard departure from their previous IP. We WANT IT TO BE GOOD SO BAD we will wait.

Right now this is like "yo, tweak your DOS engine to follow 5e rules better you scrubs". This isn't us running around in a new world, new lore, new mechanics, anything. Its so familiar its easy to poke at. Like the saying "familiarity breeds contempt" says, putting out "more of the same" needs to have some one, golden, thing to make it come out into the market and have people say that that ONE thing they EXCELLED at makes the game and allows the grace of repetition. If you go down your list of favorite games, you can probably pick out that 1 thing that made it amazing. Like Banner Saga, really good game series. There was a lot that was meh about it. Graphics? There aren't any. What a journey they take you on though, wow. There is always something. Some had a lot of #1s, things I would place at 10/10. However, some games have been 10/10 on things and ended up not being very fun. I do *like* Mass Effect: Andromeda, but why was it so meh compared to the others? All of the ingredients were there to have a great game but...just didn't happen. The repetition didn't work. If they don't ask themselves, after every time they sit down and play through something "am I having fun?", its a risk. There are areas in this game where I just have a hard time imagining them saying "that was awesome".

My profession happens to be in architecture but the value is best summed up by one exchange I had with a VP once after I spoke to them about a big plan.

VP: That is so much information and such a huge goal, I honestly can't even think of where to begin on something like that. It sounds great, but thats way too in the clouds for me to do anything with.
Me: Well, that is why you hired me. I can tell you, right now, 10 things you could start on *today* to move towards it and I could have a 3 month plan on your desk by the end of the week. [then I repeated my constant mantra]. It isn't hard, it isn't complex, but people would have to actually do it. This company fails over and over because of one thing - the inability or complete lack of appetite to execute change. It is hard to take blueprints and project them into the future and see the built product, that is my job - I gave you the blueprints so you could get an idea of the elements involved. What I am telling you to focus on is the end product and you let me handle how we get there. You have to agree to the end product, first, however. You don't do architecture one toothpick at a time and hope you end up with a castle. So, forget about the 10,000 toothpicks I showed you, I'll tell people where to put them. Do you want the castle or not?

People see lots of things to do and immediately equate that with complexity, time, change - all of which make peoples buttholes pucker up for some reason. Plus, they're wrong. It isn't that complex, it won' take as much time as you think, and it isn't change - its making what should be made. Is that different than right now? Probably. But it isn't change. Again, its getting closer to Platonic Form of what we are trying to accomplish and we have work to do towards that. Will you have to forget some things and learn some things? Sure. Is that change? No, its growth.

JFK Moon Speech:

No man can fully grasp how far and how fast we have come, but condense, if you will, the 50,000 years of man¹s recorded history in a time span of but a half-century. Stated in these terms, we know very little about the first 40 years, except at the end of them advanced man had learned to use the skins of animals to cover them. Then about 10 years ago, under this standard, man emerged from his caves to construct other kinds of shelter. Only five years ago man learned to write and use a cart with wheels. Christianity began less than two years ago. The printing press came this year, and then less than two months ago, during this whole 50-year span of human history, the steam engine provided a new source of power

Newton explored the meaning of gravity. Last month electric lights and telephones and automobiles and airplanes became available. Only last week did we develop penicillin and television and nuclear power, and now if America's new spacecraft succeeds in reaching Venus, we will have literally reached the stars before midnight tonight.

This is a breathtaking pace, and such a pace cannot help but create new ills as it dispels old, new ignorance, new problems, new dangers. Surely the opening vistas of space promise high costs and hardships, as well as high reward.

---

If you can't tell I have a rather intense dislike of what I honestly consider to be cowardice when it comes to doing work that is different than what you are doing right now. Is it the right thing to do? Then do it.
bumping because people in another thread were mentioning this survey
We are currently comparing BG3 to walking on the moon. Yes, expectations are high. ^^
This worked. We need another one.
Originally Posted by virion
Originally Posted by Orbax
Originally Posted by virion


The point is.... we wrote MORE than anyone wrote about DOS:2 since it was released as an EA. There's no fucking way they were ready for this. I think their feedback management might get a bit better over time especially they already have 80 + pages from discord, reddit and this forum.



The bigger question is what they are going to read. If you were Larian, which areas would you focus on:

[Linked Image]






Well I would totally focus on the compendium and that's why they have them to begin with.

We do have the " Mega Threads" section and only a couple of major subjects there so I think they are reviewing those too. After all they are filtered by moderators beforehand and normally free of " autism screech". RTwP vs TB being the exception compared to others. The compendium is waaaay cleaner with bulletpoints etc.

One thing to note is we have roughly 50k comments out of 1million + sold copies. Which means less than 5% of the community left a comment(Less than 5% aka probably around 10k people MAX).

We are literally ignorable by my standards.


Keep in mind that they also have the numbers on how much time players spent playing the game. They want to come out of EA with people praising them, so word of mouth is key in this situation. It makes no sense to ignore the "5%" of people who are playing the game for dozens of hours and putting their time into providing feedback. If all they were worried about was the initial sales, and didn't give a darn about their reputation, then sure, your standards may be applicable. But nowadays EA is part free QA and part Marketing. Blowing that opportunity is a bad call from a business perspective.
Has anything changed about the evil questline in patch3? I haven't made it past the chapel since game keeps crashing with vulcan now.
I just wat to start and say thank you for making the first 5e computer game. It is long overdue. Please work on adding as many classes and subclasses as possible. Mahalo!
Originally Posted by benbaxter
Originally Posted by virion
Originally Posted by Orbax
Originally Posted by virion


The point is.... we wrote MORE than anyone wrote about DOS:2 since it was released as an EA. There's no fucking way they were ready for this. I think their feedback management might get a bit better over time especially they already have 80 + pages from discord, reddit and this forum.



The bigger question is what they are going to read. If you were Larian, which areas would you focus on:

[Linked Image]






Well I would totally focus on the compendium and that's why they have them to begin with.

We do have the " Mega Threads" section and only a couple of major subjects there so I think they are reviewing those too. After all they are filtered by moderators beforehand and normally free of " autism screech". RTwP vs TB being the exception compared to others. The compendium is waaaay cleaner with bulletpoints etc.

One thing to note is we have roughly 50k comments out of 1million + sold copies. Which means less than 5% of the community left a comment(Less than 5% aka probably around 10k people MAX).

We are literally ignorable by my standards.


Keep in mind that they also have the numbers on how much time players spent playing the game. They want to come out of EA with people praising them, so word of mouth is key in this situation. It makes no sense to ignore the "5%" of people who are playing the game for dozens of hours and putting their time into providing feedback. If all they were worried about was the initial sales, and didn't give a darn about their reputation, then sure, your standards may be applicable. But nowadays EA is part free QA and part Marketing. Blowing that opportunity is a bad call from a business perspective.


I have to agree, going back at my comment and seeing it now I think I had the wrong approach.
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