Larian Studios
Posted By: Randal Weapons on Backs - 23/10/20 08:47 PM
Hey guys,
I would like to address an issue that I know is fairly polarizing. Some time ago RPGs and combat simulation games started this thing of scabbards on the back of the characters (It seems like the Witcher series also had a big part in this). I was really disappointed to see the same thing being implemented in BG3. Now, here is were personal preference comes in. If you think it looks cool and BG3 needs this to compete with other titles...well, this whole point is moot. However, if you are interested in realism (or maybe I should say believability in a context of a fantasy RPG), please read on.

So here are my premises:
BG3 is trying to achieve a certain believability/credibility factor when dealing with (non-magical) weapons.
BG3, being based on DnD 5e, is modeling weapons taken from Historical European Martial Arts (HEMA).

If you agree with these premises, here are my arguments:
1. Historical accuracy: As far as we know (and by "we" I mean historians and HEMA experts), nobody has put weapons on their back in medieval times. Scabbards for swords, short swords, and daggers were always attached to the belt in some form or fashion. Zweihander (in game called a "great sword") were just carried and usually not sheathed. However, there is discussion out there about that, but if you approach it with common sense, it should be obvious why. An that brings me to the next point...

2. Practicality: If you ever get a chance to handle a sword, try it. Put it on your back and unsheathe. If the sword is longer than your arm, it's simply impossible (I think anybody can imagine that, even without the experiment). So, long swords are out by default. Let's say with have a sword which is shorter than your arm's length, a short sword like the Gladius, or a long dagger. Drawing it, would not be a big problem, but then, try to sheath it. Believe me, it isn't easy. And my follow up question would be: Why is it on your back in the first place when it's short? Isn't it more practical at your hip, where you can reach it easier and quicker(!) than reaching for it on your back? Besides, someone might sneak up on you and just draw it for you. wink

In the case of long swords: You could still sheath a sword and THEN put in on your back, or take it of your back and draw it. But why would you do that? Apart from having the sword out of your immediate reach and sight, and not being able to draw it readily, you can't sit down with that thing on your back, and it is likely to get stuck entering through a low doorway, passing under branches, etc., simply because it is out of your own sight. Again, try it at home: Attach a broomstick or something like that on your back and go hiking in the woods with it...depending on your body length, you might not even make it out of the door. wink

In terms of believability, all other weapons are even worse... how do you wear a war hammer, a battle axe, or a quarter staff on your back? How do you attach it? And if you somehow manage to do so, is it ready to be drawn quickly? If you went through the broomstick experiment mentioned earlier, I'm sure you already see my point here.

Sure, in the case someone capable of magic, the weapon might be just attached magically, and more or less just hover there. But then, why would it not hover next to the wielder, being less of a nuisance?

3. If you are still not convinced, don't take my word for it, listen to a historical expert and a HEMA instructor who talks about this subject in this video: https://youtu.be/UKAbw69Mh3g
He is talking about other games and his suggestions are maybe not entirely applicable to BG3, but he makes a few very good points.

And as a final argument, specific to BG3: In BG2 the characters had their weapons in their hands and it looked really good and credible imho.

So, please, dear developers, consider this and make this game stand out from pack of unrealistic and sometimes ridiculous depictions of weapons and HEMA fighting. After all, this is not Final Fantasy, or something along these lines. So how about having each weapon carried in a way that makes historical and practical sense.

As is, there is an option to unsheathe and hold weapons at the ready by pressing TAB. A quick temporary solution might be to add a "realism" check box where weapons would not be on backs by default or...if the community agrees, maybe remove this Final Fantasy stuff altogether?

Other than that, dear developers, keep up the great work creating an epic game that is coming along splendidly!
Posted By: Sadurian Re: Weapons on Backs - 23/10/20 08:53 PM
Mods: This subject might be a subject for the Megathreads section because, although each is quite small, we are getting a lot of threads on the subject.

OP: I agree with your views but others disagree. The subject has been debated quite a lot here, it might be worth trawling through the Search function to see what has already been said..
Posted By: Randal Re: Weapons on Backs - 23/10/20 09:53 PM
Thank you for the reply. Do you have a specific post in mind? If you do, please let me know. My work/life/game balance does not allow me for extensive search on the forum, so I thought I just throw my entire 2 cents in one post and see how people react. I realize that some kids these days prefer floating weapons on backs, because it looks cool, that's why my suggestion for a realistic/arcade option which can be switched in the game menu.
Posted By: Sadurian Re: Weapons on Backs - 23/10/20 09:59 PM
I was going to do a search but didn't around to it. I'll go see if I can pull some of the threads and link to them.

https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=713786&Searchpage=1&Main=93135&Words=%2Bscabbards&Search=true#Post713786
https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=710692&Searchpage=1&Main=92857&Words=%2Bscabbards&Search=true#Post710692
https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=709895&Searchpage=1&Main=92403&Words=%2Bscabbards&Search=true#Post709895
https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=681531&Searchpage=2&Main=88485&Words=%2Bscabbards&Search=true#Post681531
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: Weapons on Backs - 23/10/20 10:01 PM
Originally Posted by Randal

So here are my premises:
BG3 is trying to achieve a certain believability/credibility factor when dealing with (non-magical) weapons.


Considering that you can dip your weapons in fire (candle) to create fire sword/fire bow/..., I think credibility and believability is not really something that matter for them...
Posted By: VhexLambda Re: Weapons on Backs - 23/10/20 10:45 PM
Weapons on back are kinda stupid.

Leave it in the Witcher, I would rather my D&D characters and by extension D&D video game characters carry their weapons on the hip.

The only exception would be polearms, greatswords, and halberds which weren't actually carried on people's back either but were normally carried in a cart and what not, not really plausible for a video game.
Posted By: Sadurian Re: Weapons on Backs - 24/10/20 11:06 AM
Ideally, I'd like to have characters carry long weapons over their shoulders when they are not in use. That's unlikely to happen in BG3 due to the extra animation involved, but it would be a nice touch. Perhaps then, people could refer back to the game that first introduces it and use that as a reason why it works in CRPGs.
Posted By: Dastan McKay Re: Weapons on Backs - 24/10/20 11:18 AM
While you are right that historically there are no evidence of swords on back, it is neither impossible, nor fully impractical.
Here is a video that shows that modified scabbard can allow this, and why whould you want to do this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EWi2DnDoaI&ab_channel=Shadiversity

But I shure think that rapiers, axes and maces have no place on your back.
Posted By: Demoulius Re: Weapons on Backs - 24/10/20 11:20 AM
Originally Posted by Dastan McKay
While you are right that historically there are no evidence of swords on back, it is neither impossible, nor fully impractical.
Here is a video that shows that modified scabbard can allow this, and why whould you want to do this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EWi2DnDoaI&ab_channel=Shadiversity

But I shure think that rapiers, axes and maces have no place on your back.

dang beaten to the punch.

Shad is great. He also says that with some practice it becomes easier and considering our characters are in fantasy world where sword fighting is very present them practicing with grabbing it from their back doesent sound like a far fetched thought!
Posted By: Dastan McKay Re: Weapons on Backs - 24/10/20 11:24 AM
Originally Posted by Demoulius
Originally Posted by Dastan McKay
While you are right that historically there are no evidence of swords on back, it is neither impossible, nor fully impractical.
Here is a video that shows that modified scabbard can allow this, and why whould you want to do this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EWi2DnDoaI&ab_channel=Shadiversity

But I shure think that rapiers, axes and maces have no place on your back.

dang beaten to the punch.

Shad is great. He also says that with some practice it becomes easier and considering our characters are in fantasy world where sword fighting is very present them practicing with grabbing it from their back doesent sound like a far fetched thought!

In a later video he asked his brother to try it. He wasn't as good as Shad, but didn't have mush problem with it.
Posted By: Randal Re: Weapons on Backs - 24/10/20 05:40 PM
Originally Posted by Dastan McKay
While you are right that historically there are no evidence of swords on back, it is neither impossible, nor fully impractical.
Here is a video that shows that modified scabbard can allow this, and why whould you want to do this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EWi2DnDoaI&ab_channel=Shadiversity

But I shure think that rapiers, axes and maces have no place on your back.


Very interesting and creative indeed! But be aware of what we are doing here, we are coming up with reasons and solutions to make it plausible and possible, while hundreds of years of martial arts never even bothered talking about it, not to mention creating very complicated scabbards to make it work. As much as that guy in the video tried hard to justify it (and he made some compelling arguments and built some solid prototypes) he didn't go to war with his contraptions.

Obviously I didn't either, but there are two major points that make a sword by your hip clearly better (and are not up for debate due to laws of physics): it's in your field of view and you can draw it quicker.

When it comes to implementation in BG3, it would be fantastic to have both, with an arcade/realistic option in the game menu.

In any case, thank you for the video! It's amazing what people come up with when challenged. laugh
Posted By: Randal Re: Weapons on Backs - 24/10/20 05:48 PM
Originally Posted by Sadurian
I was going to do a search but didn't around to it. I'll go see if I can pull some of the threads and link to them.

https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=713786&Searchpage=1&Main=93135&Words=%2Bscabbards&Search=true#Post713786
https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=710692&Searchpage=1&Main=92857&Words=%2Bscabbards&Search=true#Post710692
https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=709895&Searchpage=1&Main=92403&Words=%2Bscabbards&Search=true#Post709895
https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=681531&Searchpage=2&Main=88485&Words=%2Bscabbards&Search=true#Post681531


Thank you Sadurian! I am happy to see that there are other voices that echo the same content!

As for the implementation of pole weapons, why not just let the character carry them in their hands, as it was done in BG2 and throughout medieval history? Imagine having a 2 meter long stick in your hand while walking long distances... isn't it obvious that you would use it as a walking stick instead of finding an intricate contraption to fasten it on your back where it would just hit branches on the way?
Posted By: WinterbornGuard Re: Weapons on Backs - 24/10/20 06:56 PM
I thought PoE2 did a great job with weapons on the character model. One handed swords were on side in a scabbard and dual weapons hung from each hip. Only weapons on the back were the ones too big to wear on the hip.

Edit: even shields wore differently depending on size. Bucklers hung from the hip for example which looked awesome.
Posted By: Randal Re: Weapons on Backs - 24/10/20 07:00 PM
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Randal

So here are my premises:
BG3 is trying to achieve a certain believability/credibility factor when dealing with (non-magical) weapons.


Considering that you can dip your weapons in fire (candle) to create fire sword/fire bow/..., I think credibility and believability is not really something that matter for them...


I agree, and I am not a fan of this either. But Larian values the input of the community so if we are vocal about having more realism (in the confines of a fantasy world and DnD rules), they will consider our requests! smile
Posted By: RumRunner151 Re: Weapons on Backs - 24/10/20 07:04 PM
But it looks cool and this is not a reality simulator.
Posted By: PrivateRaccoon Re: Weapons on Backs - 24/10/20 07:59 PM
Originally Posted by RumRunner151
But it looks cool and this is not a reality simulator.


Does it though? I can't speak for all weapons since I mainly like to play casters so normally use a staff. But those staffs pretty much always gets animated as either being glued to your back, or even worse, slightly hover an inch away from your clothes. I wouldn't mind a caster having a hovering weapon but can't that hover beside them instead? smile

Now that I think of it, I wouldn't mind casters carrying their weapons a la King Harlequin in 7 deadly sins. Heresy I know. But I want my sorc to travel around with a pillow, ok!
Posted By: Randal Re: Weapons on Backs - 25/10/20 05:42 PM
Originally Posted by RumRunner151
But it looks cool and this is not a reality simulator.


True, it is not a "reality simulator", but it IS a sequel in the Baldur's Gate Saga in which weapons were never magically attached to the back of the character.
As for "it looks cool", I stated above that there is no point in arguing about that, since it is personal preference. It's also the reason why I suggested to have two options, realistic and arcade.

In the end it comes down to a democratic process and eventually Larian's decision whether they want to listen to the community.

Posted By: Randal Re: Weapons on Backs - 25/10/20 05:53 PM
Originally Posted by PrivateRaccoon
Originally Posted by RumRunner151
But it looks cool and this is not a reality simulator.


Does it though? I can't speak for all weapons since I mainly like to play casters so normally use a staff. But those staffs pretty much always gets animated as either being glued to your back, or even worse, slightly hover an inch away from your clothes. I wouldn't mind a caster having a hovering weapon but can't that hover beside them instead? smile

Now that I think of it, I wouldn't mind casters carrying their weapons a la King Harlequin in 7 deadly sins. Heresy I know. But I want my sorc to travel around with a pillow, ok!


Very good point. It just looks weird. And when a character sits down and half of the staff disappears in the chair or ground, it just looks ridiculous.

What I do not understand is that there already IS a fairly good start of a solution for this in game. When you draw your weapons you are holding the - in this case - a staff, as a person actually would.

Oh, and stuff like this:
[Linked Image]

I think we all agree that this has to go...
Posted By: PrivateRaccoon Re: Weapons on Backs - 25/10/20 06:15 PM
Originally Posted by Randal


I think we all agree that this has to go...


+5
Posted By: Popsculpture Re: Weapons on Backs - 25/10/20 06:17 PM
Originally Posted by Randal
Originally Posted by RumRunner151
But it looks cool and this is not a reality simulator.


True, it is not a "reality simulator", but it IS a sequel in the Baldur's Gate Saga in which weapons were never magically attached to the back of the character.
As for "it looks cool", I stated above that there is no point in arguing about that, since it is personal preference. It's also the reason why I suggested to have two options, realistic and arcade.


I don't really have a horse in this race because it's not really a big deal to me honestly; however, I'd like to point out that they don't have scabbards on any of the weapons and they actually just hover on the hips or backs of the character model. I'm not saying we need them just making an observation.

I don't think we need to go that far as having 2 "modes" it should just be a toggle like hide helm. Just click a box or toggle to move it from back to hip. something like this is so minor that if Larian misses I'm sure modders will get it sorted out.
Posted By: robertthebard Re: Weapons on Backs - 25/10/20 06:24 PM
You know, about 5 years before anyone ever heard of a Witcher game, I carried a great sword around with me at Renaissance Fairs. I did not have it sheathed on my hip, but instead hung on hooks that were attached to a harness right at the base of my neck. Why? Because I'm 5'11" tall, and the sword, from tip to pommel, was just over 6' long. If you looked at it from a medium distance, where you couldn't see the hooks, it looked like it was floating behind me, instead of hanging on the hooks. It didn't have a sheath, I was a poor bard, not a fancy noble. I was lucky I could afford the sword.
Posted By: FletchPhantasm Re: Weapons on Backs - 26/10/20 12:11 PM
Originally Posted by robertthebard
You know, about 5 years before anyone ever heard of a Witcher game, I carried a great sword around with me at Renaissance Fairs. I did not have it sheathed on my hip, but instead hung on hooks that were attached to a harness right at the base of my neck. Why? Because I'm 5'11" tall, and the sword, from tip to pommel, was just over 6' long. If you looked at it from a medium distance, where you couldn't see the hooks, it looked like it was floating behind me, instead of hanging on the hooks. It didn't have a sheath, I was a poor bard, not a fancy noble. I was lucky I could afford the sword.


How many had short swords, rapiers, maces, clubs, staves and torches hooked to their back though? I don't think anyone is arguing about lugging around big bulky gear on your back. I got 4k gold in my pouch and a +1 rapier, I need it on my side so one hand can sit on the pommel and the other on my hip =)

Posted By: Aurgelmir Re: Weapons on Backs - 26/10/20 12:35 PM
Oh maaaan do I want a "Toggle" for how a character should carry their weapon by default. (Much like a "turn off helmet" toggle is needed)

Not only is the "on my back" thing silly. I seriously dislike that they don't use their weapons for casting spells. DnD requires a Focus or component pouch to cast spells in most cases. The fact that Gaels go to spell casting is "put staff on back, and wave my hands" is so silly.

How long has it been since WoW came out? I get they did it there, but this is a 2020 game, it's a bit silly they don't have better solutions for all this yet.

Oh, and when you have a torch, you hold it over your head, not dragging it downwards as if it was a heavy mace...
Posted By: vometia Re: Weapons on Backs - 26/10/20 12:57 PM
Originally Posted by Sadurian
Mods: This subject might be a subject for the Megathreads section because, although each is quite small, we are getting a lot of threads on the subject.

OP: I agree with your views but others disagree. The subject has been debated quite a lot here, it might be worth trawling through the Search function to see what has already been said..

You're probably right: I nearly skimmed it as I thought it was another topic I'd already "done". I may merge them together at some point, presuming that doesn't simply cause additional confusion.
Posted By: Seraphael Re: Weapons on Backs - 26/10/20 01:24 PM
Never was a fan of Manga inspired oversized weapons worn on the back compulsively. And though I love Larian, I HATE how they manage inventory and how they overemphasize loot. This extends to the graphical feedback or lack thereof. For instance, BACKPACKS should be a requirement to carry much at all and be shown on the character's back. Only large weapons, with the exception of polearms, should be worn (alongside backpack) on the back in my opinion.

A toggle for helmet on/off would be nice, but I would hope that this would cost a bonus action to toggle during combat. Suffer for your beauty wink
Posted By: Randal Re: Weapons on Backs - 26/10/20 03:11 PM
Originally Posted by Popsculpture
Originally Posted by Randal
Originally Posted by RumRunner151
But it looks cool and this is not a reality simulator.


True, it is not a "reality simulator", but it IS a sequel in the Baldur's Gate Saga in which weapons were never magically attached to the back of the character.
As for "it looks cool", I stated above that there is no point in arguing about that, since it is personal preference. It's also the reason why I suggested to have two options, realistic and arcade.


I don't really have a horse in this race because it's not really a big deal to me honestly; however, I'd like to point out that they don't have scabbards on any of the weapons and they actually just hover on the hips or backs of the character model. I'm not saying we need them just making an observation.

I don't think we need to go that far as having 2 "modes" it should just be a toggle like hide helm. Just click a box or toggle to move it from back to hip. something like this is so minor that if Larian misses I'm sure modders will get it sorted out.


Good point! But scabbards would be a whole different discussion and more or less independent of where the sword is.

You described it much better than I did, a toggle function, akin to "hide helmet" is precisely what I had in mind.
Posted By: Randal Re: Weapons on Backs - 26/10/20 03:33 PM
Originally Posted by robertthebard
You know, about 5 years before anyone ever heard of a Witcher game, I carried a great sword around with me at Renaissance Fairs. I did not have it sheathed on my hip, but instead hung on hooks that were attached to a harness right at the base of my neck. Why? Because I'm 5'11" tall, and the sword, from tip to pommel, was just over 6' long. If you looked at it from a medium distance, where you couldn't see the hooks, it looked like it was floating behind me, instead of hanging on the hooks. It didn't have a sheath, I was a poor bard, not a fancy noble. I was lucky I could afford the sword.


Nice story! But let's say you could afford a scabbard for your 6' sword...that would be a 5' scabbard, right? How would you draw the weapon without looking silly? laugh

I stand to be corrected, but I don't think they made scabbards for swords with 5' blades, at least not on a regular bases.

But besides that, a great sword swung on the back for transportation does make sense. Or carried in some other way, such as:
[Linked Image]
Posted By: Zaxtaj Re: Weapons on Backs - 26/10/20 04:01 PM
Personally, I've just never been a fan of weapons being on my character's back. a lot of times I'll just use weapons that sit on his side and so far in EA that would be daggers, or choosing no weapon at all and just spamming cantrips all day.
Posted By: Tzelanit Re: Weapons on Backs - 26/10/20 04:04 PM
I don't have an issue with how it's currently implemented in this genre. In more action-oriented games that focus on a singular character where the camera is parked behind them and they're up close, I tend to be a bit pickier, but in this instance where 90% of your time is spent with an eagle eye view of a battlefield, I can't say that it's something that I've even noticed.

I feel like this concern falls alongside concerns similar to "I'd like to see a crisp eating animation instead of my character just putting their hand to their mouth" and "why don't my characters relieve themselves or require sleep?" I don't think that these little nuances can or should be a feasible focal point.
Posted By: robertthebard Re: Weapons on Backs - 26/10/20 04:26 PM
Originally Posted by Randal
Originally Posted by robertthebard
You know, about 5 years before anyone ever heard of a Witcher game, I carried a great sword around with me at Renaissance Fairs. I did not have it sheathed on my hip, but instead hung on hooks that were attached to a harness right at the base of my neck. Why? Because I'm 5'11" tall, and the sword, from tip to pommel, was just over 6' long. If you looked at it from a medium distance, where you couldn't see the hooks, it looked like it was floating behind me, instead of hanging on the hooks. It didn't have a sheath, I was a poor bard, not a fancy noble. I was lucky I could afford the sword.


Nice story! But let's say you could afford a scabbard for your 6' sword...that would be a 5' scabbard, right? How would you draw the weapon without looking silly? laugh

I stand to be corrected, but I don't think they made scabbards for swords with 5' blades, at least not on a regular bases.

But besides that, a great sword swung on the back for transportation does make sense. Or carried in some other way, such as:
[Linked Image]

Yeah, I couldn't have carried it like that and played my guitar... Awkward x9000. There was a young lady that participated in some of the Fairs that I did that had a short sword hung similarly, unless she was participating in the Live Steel events, where people would actually sword fight. She, also, played an instrument, a lute, and hip carry could have done damage to the instrument.
Posted By: SigStarrlind Re: Weapons on Backs - 26/10/20 04:45 PM
The absolute last thing I want to see in a DnD game is creative choices making way for historical accuracy. Unless you are playing a campaign that has been tailor made to take place in a historical period, but that's obviously not the case here.

DnD, and in this case FR, is about the larger than life elements of story telling and roleplay, and about transporting yourself to another world to experience something fantastic. I think it is totally acceptable to have elements of the game to have an incredulity or to focus on how cool something looks as opposed to how believable it is in real life. However, I think having an option of where to put the weapon as an extra layer of customization would be acceptable, and I would also encourage it. DnD is afterall all about personal choice. I just would rather not see historical accuracy enforced on anything and that goes for armors and shields too.
Posted By: SkyKnight.Prime Re: Weapons on Backs - 26/10/20 07:15 PM
Blame Bioware. wink Or at least, it was Mass Effect and the Dragon Age games where I first started seeing weapons floating on the backs of the characters. grin

Now, in some cases, I don't think it's an issue - a longbow would be slung over the shoulder when not carried. And I'd love to have an option for a slung quiver of arrows on my ranger's back. grin
Posted By: Abits Re: Weapons on Backs - 26/10/20 07:17 PM
Yeah but rapier on the back? The thing that drives me nuts is that there weapons they decided are good enough for hip but rapier on back?
Posted By: Orbax Re: Weapons on Backs - 26/10/20 07:18 PM
When you and your crew be keepin' it real

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Kendaric Re: Weapons on Backs - 26/10/20 07:33 PM
Originally Posted by SigStarrlind
The absolute last thing I want to see in a DnD game is creative choices making way for historical accuracy. Unless you are playing a campaign that has been tailor made to take place in a historical period, but that's obviously not the case here.

DnD, and in this case FR, is about the larger than life elements of story telling and roleplay, and about transporting yourself to another world to experience something fantastic. I think it is totally acceptable to have elements of the game to have an incredulity or to focus on how cool something looks as opposed to how believable it is in real life. However, I think having an option of where to put the weapon as an extra layer of customization would be acceptable, and I would also encourage it. DnD is afterall all about personal choice. I just would rather not see historical accuracy enforced on anything and that goes for armors and shields too.


That's well and good, but in some cases looks utterly ridiculous and makes no sense... like rapiers or hand crossbows worn on the back. I can certainly see longswords, greatswords, -axes, -clubs, polearmss, bows and crossbows as being worn there, but small or lighter weapons like a rapier, scimitar, hand axe or hand crossbow should definitely be worn on the hip.
Posted By: Randal Re: Weapons on Backs - 28/10/20 04:58 PM
Originally Posted by SigStarrlind
The absolute last thing I want to see in a DnD game is creative choices making way for historical accuracy. Unless you are playing a campaign that has been tailor made to take place in a historical period, but that's obviously not the case here.

DnD, and in this case FR, is about the larger than life elements of story telling and roleplay, and about transporting yourself to another world to experience something fantastic. I think it is totally acceptable to have elements of the game to have an incredulity or to focus on how cool something looks as opposed to how believable it is in real life. However, I think having an option of where to put the weapon as an extra layer of customization would be acceptable, and I would also encourage it. DnD is afterall all about personal choice. I just would rather not see historical accuracy enforced on anything and that goes for armors and shields too.


What Kendaric said...

and I think you misunderstood my point. I am not pushing for historical accuracy, far from it. It is a fantasy world after all, as you rightfully pointed out. I made the reference to historical use of weapons because that's how they would be used, even in that fantasy world, because it is the most practical and efficient way. BUT, you are also right about the fact that it is about choice, so if there was a choice to toggle, both sides of the argument would be happy, more copies of the game would be sold, Larian profits and everybody wins. laugh
Posted By: Randal Re: Weapons on Backs - 28/10/20 05:05 PM
Originally Posted by SkyKnight.Prime
Blame Bioware. wink Or at least, it was Mass Effect and the Dragon Age games where I first started seeing weapons floating on the backs of the characters. grin

Now, in some cases, I don't think it's an issue - a longbow would be slung over the shoulder when not carried. And I'd love to have an option for a slung quiver of arrows on my ranger's back. grin


Oh yes, Dragon Age. I am pretty sure they introduced that weapon-on-the-back style out of necessary (easier to program). Now people build questionable scabbards to justify it. laugh Amazing. They do have my respect though, it requires persistence and creativity.

As stated above: Larian, give us both and we will all rejoice! laugh
Posted By: vometia Re: Weapons on Backs - 28/10/20 05:35 PM
Originally Posted by Randal

Oh yes, Dragon Age. I am pretty sure they introduced that weapon-on-the-back style out of necessary (easier to program). Now people build questionable scabbards to justify it. laugh Amazing. They do have my respect though, it requires persistence and creativity.

I don't recall where I first saw it; I thought it was Oblivion but mine was so heavily modded it's anyone's guess. It soon had actual scabbards, anyway.

My biggest gripe tends to be impractical sword designs that would be incredibly fragile and tend to have loads of pointy bat-wings and dragon-claws that would probably cause more injury to the person wielding it. That and the perplexing belief that swords weight "literally 40 pounds". No, they don't: that's not only completely unusable but physically impossible.
Posted By: Noraver Re: Weapons on Backs - 28/10/20 06:36 PM
Originally Posted by Randal

2. Practicality: If you ever get a chance to handle a sword, try it. Put it on your back and unsheathe.



I agree with your entire post, however this is one thing I want to highlight.

Currently, there are no sheathes or quivers.
This bugs me beyond belief. Running around with weapons just "sticking" to you looks awful, especially for bows that fire without a quiver to draw from. It gives me a genuine "naked" feeling.

I really hope they create scabbards and quivers, or it's going to look super lame running around like it currently does.
Yeah, this giant flaming sword on my back definitely doesn't burn at all!
Posted By: robertthebard Re: Weapons on Backs - 28/10/20 07:52 PM
Originally Posted by Randal
Originally Posted by SigStarrlind
The absolute last thing I want to see in a DnD game is creative choices making way for historical accuracy. Unless you are playing a campaign that has been tailor made to take place in a historical period, but that's obviously not the case here.

DnD, and in this case FR, is about the larger than life elements of story telling and roleplay, and about transporting yourself to another world to experience something fantastic. I think it is totally acceptable to have elements of the game to have an incredulity or to focus on how cool something looks as opposed to how believable it is in real life. However, I think having an option of where to put the weapon as an extra layer of customization would be acceptable, and I would also encourage it. DnD is afterall all about personal choice. I just would rather not see historical accuracy enforced on anything and that goes for armors and shields too.


What Kendaric said...

and I think you misunderstood my point. I am not pushing for historical accuracy, far from it. It is a fantasy world after all, as you rightfully pointed out. I made the reference to historical use of weapons because that's how they would be used, even in that fantasy world, because it is the most practical and efficient way. BUT, you are also right about the fact that it is about choice, so if there was a choice to toggle, both sides of the argument would be happy, more copies of the game would be sold, Larian profits and everybody wins. laugh

In about 30 years of gaming, I have never had anyone I know say that they passed on a game because of how weapons were carried. I was in a Legion of over 200 in Aion, and there were a ton of people in my DDO guild, not sure of the exact count, but in all the times we talked about games we were planning to check out or pass on, "weapons aren't carried the way I like" never entered into the conversation.
Posted By: jinkaroo Re: Weapons on Backs - 28/10/20 08:23 PM
I'd like to see swords and smaller weapons carried on the sides as well, it makes more sense that they'd be there and they are in other games (like Pillars of Eternity). The rapier on the back is very, very strange looking.

Larger weapons though... If you had a 'real' party they'd probably be walking around using their staves/halberds as a walking aid and/or resting them on their shoulders. I'd love that amount of walking/resting animations in the game, but honestly movement is 90% running full tilt around the maps. So then either you see your party holding them out in charge position all the time, or it sits on their back. I guess on the back will look less wonky in the game (especially when visiting the markets)?
Posted By: Eddiar Re: Weapons on Backs - 28/10/20 08:31 PM
Any word on sheaths?

That would be nice.
Posted By: malks Re: Weapons on Backs - 28/10/20 09:01 PM
I would prefer waist scabbards.

Some animations are ridiculous with the weapons in the back.
Posted By: Randal Re: Weapons on Backs - 30/10/20 03:50 PM
In about 30 years of gaming, I have never had anyone I know say that they passed on a game because of how weapons were carried. I was in a Legion of over 200 in Aion, and there were a ton of people in my DDO guild, not sure of the exact count, but in all the times we talked about games we were planning to check out or pass on, "weapons aren't carried the way I like" never entered into the conversation.[/quote]


Clearly, we move in different circles. wink

But joking aside, we have a discussion here, don't we?

The game is still being developed so we have a chance to make a difference!
Posted By: Randal Re: Weapons on Backs - 30/10/20 04:04 PM
Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by Randal

Oh yes, Dragon Age. I am pretty sure they introduced that weapon-on-the-back style out of necessary (easier to program). Now people build questionable scabbards to justify it. laugh Amazing. They do have my respect though, it requires persistence and creativity.

I don't recall where I first saw it; I thought it was Oblivion but mine was so heavily modded it's anyone's guess. It soon had actual scabbards, anyway.

My biggest gripe tends to be impractical sword designs that would be incredibly fragile and tend to have loads of pointy bat-wings and dragon-claws that would probably cause more injury to the person wielding it. That and the perplexing belief that swords weight "literally 40 pounds". No, they don't: that's not only completely unusable but physically impossible.


I have a simple challenge for people like that...pick up a standard fire axe (which looks puny, compared to these monstrosities in certain games) and swing it around for 15 minutes. After that, let's talk again. laugh

At some point games started portraying swords that are, by the looks of them, heavier than the person wielding them. This unfortunately pushed the "normal" looking weapon also to the heavier/bigger side.

I am glad that BG3 sticks to a more sensible depiction.
Posted By: Randal Re: Weapons on Backs - 30/10/20 04:21 PM
Originally Posted by jinkaroo
I'd like to see swords and smaller weapons carried on the sides as well, it makes more sense that they'd be there and they are in other games (like Pillars of Eternity). The rapier on the back is very, very strange looking.

Larger weapons though... If you had a 'real' party they'd probably be walking around using their staves/halberds as a walking aid and/or resting them on their shoulders. I'd love that amount of walking/resting animations in the game, but honestly movement is 90% running full tilt around the maps. So then either you see your party holding them out in charge position all the time, or it sits on their back. I guess on the back will look less wonky in the game (especially when visiting the markets)?


Good point, this should be considered. However, the way the characters run/jog at the moment is a good compromise between getting there fast and this ridiculous sprinting all the time. At that pace it is very natural to hold a pole weapon in both hands. A simple additional animation to use the pole weapon as a "walking stick" while standing would sweeten the deal. The animation is even in game already, namely for the quarterstaff (see pics).

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Posted By: arajaja Re: Weapons on Backs - 30/10/20 08:49 PM
Yea i though this aswell ...

who the f puts a shortsword on his back?? Looks dumb af. I was kinda surprised they didnt put daggers on the back too.
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