Larian Studios
Posted By: SGTSPIRE Personas of main companions - 31/10/20 01:35 AM
Maybe it is just me, but why are the only 2 females in the group, come across rude, mean, direct, Cold.


Am I the leader or influencer? Because in early access, it's the two female NPC's. Give me some dominant dialogue choices as the player character, allow me to be a leader in dialogue, without being cruel or evil.

I don't understand why the two female characters have such a similar persona, and the male characters are all different.

I know there is a huge investment into the dialogue and voice overs already, and that there is most likely no chance of this changing course, so maybe include another female character with a persona like Gale's or Astarion or a hybrid.

I am taking some knowledge of the DISC personality testing , a quick take, here are my results:

Astarion: ID
Gale: IS
Will:SI
ShadowHeart:Dc
LaE'Zel:Ds

It seems like every AAA game does this, and it is getting overplayed.
Where do you find these personalities that are so off putting? I have never met a single female who is in leadership, and behaves this way, please stop painting women in such a bad light.
In your effort for equal representation, you are overplaying and misrepresenting women in leadership roles, or who have dominant personas.

Can maybe make an excuse for Lae'Zel based on race, but then are we painting all Gith as heartless demanding warriors ?



Posted By: OneManArmy Re: Personas of main companions - 31/10/20 03:05 AM
This is a world of dungeons and dragons and dark fantasy, man. Laezel still behaves very well, as for gith. I didn't understand why you didn't like Shadow Heart
Posted By: SGTSPIRE Re: Personas of main companions - 31/10/20 03:14 AM
I guess I am not into demanding, disengaged, cold hearted women as companions. Maybe she is more fun to play as a main character then to have in dialogue scenes.
Interested if you did not sense that from her when you played ?
Posted By: Tzelanit Re: Personas of main companions - 31/10/20 03:19 AM
I didn't get that from their personalities at all.
Lae'zel is pretty typical of most Gith, if not a little warmer in all actuality.
Shadowheart's disposition isn't surprising considering her history.

These are people stuck in a high-stress, life-threatening, extraordinary situation.
I highly doubt that any of the women in leadership that you've run across have a parasite threatening to end them in their brains, nor are they living in an unforgiving fantasy world.
You say that this is painting women in a bad light, and I say that expecting every girl that you come across to be a bright and bubbly cookie jar full of butterflies is far more detrimental to women.

Shift your perception. Maybe get some life experience. Move out of that small town.
These women are more realistic than most that I've seen in other games.

As an aside, there've been a lot of these posts, and this complaint tends to come from guys who are intimidated by the idea of a strong woman and are turned off at the prospect of romancing one that's not submissive and shy.
This is not that series and this is not that game.
Posted By: SGTSPIRE Re: Personas of main companions - 31/10/20 03:40 AM
I am glad you didn't get that from their personalities.

I would suggest a different tone in your feedback though, you seem to be taking a very offensive nature, and are making assumptions that are not accurate at all about other people "Says the Assumed Small Town Male".

Like the comment about the jar full of butterflies, interested did any of the male companions come across that way. Did any come across as "Strong Men"

If we are being fair and equal, how about one male & female character who are strong, and another male and female character all bubbly and bright, and full of butterflies smile

And yes depicting both female characters in a similar light "Strong" as you would describe it, does not help your case or mine.
Posted By: OneManArmy Re: Personas of main companions - 31/10/20 03:56 AM
Originally Posted by SGTSPIRE

And yes depicting both female characters in a similar light "Strong" as you would describe it, does not help your case or mine.



You are lucky that you made it to the "good passage", otherwise you would have had another surprise mad grin
I think in this game the cult of the Strong Woman, but I like it.

Can you play the first act for evil as a drow, and compare Minthara to real-life female leaders you know? I would very much like to read this

Shadow Heart doesn't look dominant and rude, she looks like a goth teenager with a difficult fate. I think that maybe we will have another "good" girl of the classic archetype in the next acts
Posted By: SGTSPIRE Re: Personas of main companions - 31/10/20 04:00 AM
I know about Minthara, and she makes sense, not that I would normally go down that path. And I don't think any one would make into leadership at least in the enterprises I work for with her persona, but who knows what's under the hood.
Posted By: Tzelanit Re: Personas of main companions - 31/10/20 04:01 AM
Originally Posted by SGTSPIRE
I am glad you didn't get that from their personalities.

I would suggest a different tone in your feedback though, you seem to be taking a very offensive nature, and are making assumptions that are not accurate at all about other people "Says the Assumed Small Town Male".

Like the comment about the jar full of butterflies, interested did any of the male companions come across that way. Did any come across as "Strong Men"

If we are being fair and equal, how about one male & female character who are strong, and another male and female character all bubbly and bright, and full of butterflies smile

And yes depicting both female characters in a similar light "Strong" as you would describe it, does not help your case or mine.



I love how you have an issue with the fact that I said that the women in the game were strong and you're trying to somehow devalue that by putting the word in quotations because you wouldn't describe them that way.
Go ahead and say what you actually think about them.

Originally Posted by SGTSPIRE
I know about Minthara, and she makes sense, not that I would normally go down that path. And I don't think any one would make into leadership at least in the enterprises I work for with her persona, but who knows what's under the hood.


This isn't helping your case either. It's very clear that strong women intimidate you, and you want a game full of subservient and chipper female companions who are warm and welcoming to placate you.
Posted By: OneManArmy Re: Personas of main companions - 31/10/20 04:06 AM
Originally Posted by SGTSPIRE
I know about Minthara, and she makes sense, not that I would normally go down that path. And I don't think any one would make into leadership at least in the enterprises I work for with her persona, but who knows what's under the hood.



Well yes. Because she is a drow, and this is the setting of Forgoten Realm, it is normal for her to be that way. And Laezel is Gityanka, from the same setting. This is also her nature. Any comparisons to real life are silly.
You romance Shadow Heart, so don't worry
Posted By: SGTSPIRE Re: Personas of main companions - 31/10/20 04:23 AM
There is that possibility. Thought, let's say you play evil, would you not challenge Shadowheart in the beginning when she threatens you ? Just curious.
I did and she didn't survive the encounter. smile
Posted By: Kraydenvar Re: Personas of main companions - 31/10/20 04:33 AM
you can be evil but manipulative so challenging SH isnt necessarily an evil path exclusively. We still havent met all possible companions. We may yet get a saccharine character as opposed to ones who have something to prove because of their background.
Posted By: SGTSPIRE Re: Personas of main companions - 31/10/20 04:47 AM
Interesting thought. I will have to check her out when she becomes playable to learn more, like you said there maybe a reason she threatens to end you in the first meeting smile
Posted By: OneManArmy Re: Personas of main companions - 31/10/20 04:56 AM
Originally Posted by SGTSPIRE
Interesting thought. I will have to check her out when she becomes playable to learn more, like you said there maybe a reason she threatens to end you in the first meeting smile

I don’t know why she tried to kill you, just try to free her on the ilithid ship and she will be very grateful. If you are not playing as Git
Posted By: SGTSPIRE Re: Personas of main companions - 31/10/20 05:13 AM
Funny you say that. I did play a Gith on the second time through smile
I will have to double check if she threatens a non Gith the same way now.
Posted By: Kou The Mad Re: Personas of main companions - 31/10/20 09:43 AM
Is it bad that me reading the title immediately made me wonder how a game set in this setting would work if there was Stand Users?
Like the friggin' Stand Arrow just popped up in this world and started poking people and giving them Stands.
Posted By: Riandor Re: Personas of main companions - 31/10/20 10:19 AM
Originally Posted by SGTSPIRE
Maybe it is just me, but why are the only 2 females in the group, come across rude, mean, direct, Cold.


Am I the leader or influencer? Because in early access, it's the two female NPC's. Give me some dominant dialogue choices as the player character, allow me to be a leader in dialogue, without being cruel or evil.

I don't understand why the two female characters have such a similar persona, and the male characters are all different.

I know there is a huge investment into the dialogue and voice overs already, and that there is most likely no chance of this changing course, so maybe include another female character with a persona like Gale's or Astarion or a hybrid.

I am taking some knowledge of the DISC personality testing , a quick take, here are my results:

Astarion: ID
Gale: IS
Will:SI
ShadowHeart:Dc
LaE'Zel:Ds

It seems like every AAA game does this, and it is getting overplayed.
Where do you find these personalities that are so off putting? I have never met a single female who is in leadership, and behaves this way, please stop painting women in such a bad light.
In your effort for equal representation, you are overplaying and misrepresenting women in leadership roles, or who have dominant personas.

Can maybe make an excuse for Lae'Zel based on race, but then are we painting all Gith as heartless demanding warriors ?




It has already been stated by Larian that there will be other companions. The EA currently only has the testy characters.
Posted By: Dogmatis Re: Personas of main companions - 31/10/20 10:38 AM
Originally Posted by Tzelanit
I didn't get that from their personalities at all.
Lae'zel is pretty typical of most Gith, if not a little warmer in all actuality.
Shadowheart's disposition isn't surprising considering her history.

These are people stuck in a high-stress, life-threatening, extraordinary situation.
I highly doubt that any of the women in leadership that you've run across have a parasite threatening to end them in their brains, nor are they living in an unforgiving fantasy world.
You say that this is painting women in a bad light, and I say that expecting every girl that you come across to be a bright and bubbly cookie jar full of butterflies is far more detrimental to women.

Shift your perception. Maybe get some life experience. Move out of that small town.
These women are more realistic than most that I've seen in other games.

As an aside, there've been a lot of these posts, and this complaint tends to come from guys who are intimidated by the idea of a strong woman and are turned off at the prospect of romancing one that's not submissive and shy.
This is not that series and this is not that game.



The OP is right that there is not as much diversity in Character in the female protagonists so far compared to their male counterparts (twice true if you count in Minthara as well). That could possibly change with the characters that we have not recruited yet in the game.

Your comments about perception, life experience, telling people they are intimidated by strong women etc are misguided and unnecessary to say the least, you don't know who you are talking to. You are judging people based on different opinions to your own far too quickly.

And Shadowheart is not a "strong woman". She is weak. Lae'zel (my personal favorite companion) and Minthara are strong. There is a difference with rudeness and being strong. That applies to both females and males. Just because someone is rude as a person does not mean that he or she is a strong person as well.
Posted By: Riandor Re: Personas of main companions - 31/10/20 10:44 AM
Taking away the fact that more are to come, it’s quite interesting to me to be given characters whom I wouldn’t normally party up with.

As for in real life, met plenty of people and women who are similar to both Shadowheart in Lazael, but one tends to gravitate towards personalities one likes, so in the OP’s case as usually in mine, one tends to not meet too many people with such “defined” personalities as these two women because that’s not our type, doesn’t mean they aren’t out there or interesting to other people.
Posted By: Dogmatis Re: Personas of main companions - 31/10/20 11:07 AM
Originally Posted by Riandor
Taking away the fact that more are to come, it’s quite interesting to me to be given characters whom I wouldn’t normally party up with.

As for in real life, met plenty of people and women who are similar to both Shadowheart in Lazael, but one tends to gravitate towards personalities one likes, so in the OP’s case as usually in mine, one tends to not meet too many people with such “defined” personalities as these two women because that’s not our type, doesn’t mean they aren’t out there or interesting to other people.


Agreed. The only thing people get wrong is that if you are rude or an a**hole that makes you a strong person. Note how I'm not using genders as this is not gender specific. A lot of people project rudeness and dismissiveness out of their own insecurities, not their strengths. The strong rude people do so because it is truly their character (Lae'zel, Minthara), not as a defence mechanism (Shadowheart, Kagha).
Posted By: arajaja Re: Personas of main companions - 31/10/20 11:09 AM
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
This is a world of dungeons and dragons and dark fantasy, man. Laezel still behaves very well, as for gith. I didn't understand why you didn't like Shadow Heart



Shes a fkin sharran priestess called SHADOWHEART what is there more to explain?
Posted By: GoldenSphinx Re: Personas of main companions - 01/11/20 02:20 PM
It is strange that the women are the same, both are condescending, stand-offish, and unbearable. I don't understand why they need to be so horrible at every moment. I don't want them around. I don't need them questioning every decision and annoyed that I try to talk to them. That said Gale and Wyll are almost the same as well. The women (I am guessing) are tough on the outside, squishy on the inside, where the men are optimistic and heroic on the outside with a dark, shameful core. I don't like the approval/disapproval system, especially since I need these folks to play the game; I don't get to choose a party who aligns with me, and when trying to get to know them I am immediately turned off by their snark and disregard. I don't need to be looked down on. I don't enjoy dialogue choices that lead only to them insulting me. Astarion is always in a bad mood for me- not sure what I did to piss him off. I don't want to play a game where I am trying to please the NPC's instead of permitted to make my own decisions, and these are NPC's I need to play the game.

Statistically, most folks play "the good path" in games, so why are we saddled with NPC's that are dicks? Why do they see no obligation to even be civil? I am all for complex characters, but I have played numerous characters the way I want to play and all of my NPC's are shut down and consistently unhappy. If nothing else maybe have them weigh in on what they would like to do, so at least when I make a decision I have some idea how they will react. I would also suggest some dialogue that is not so dire. We can talk about things that aren't life or death or moral and immoral, at least then we could be people for a bit and not folks ready to judge each other, take power, or take a controversial side.
Posted By: Demoulius Re: Personas of main companions - 01/11/20 04:14 PM
So I dont know this DISC test and im not sure why people are assuming peoples personal opinions and stances on anything. Its not helping the discussion? Larian said already that they are worried about how these characters will be received and big chances are that if we perceive them in a negative light that other would so as well, which they obviously want to avoid.

I dont think Shadowheart is rude, per se. First impressions she comes across like that but when I thought about it, most of my dialogue with her I was prying into her personal business and I was a random person she just met. It would be weird if she wasent put off by that or just spilled her entire history in a heartbeat. The things she likes seem to be pragmatic and logical things. BUT. She also has things to hide and when people pry about those things she basicly tells them to take a hike if you dont pass the (often difficult) skill checks. Shadowheart doesent trust anyone (understandably) and if you start prying she doesent open up but just gets more secretive. Allowing the players some less creepy and invasive ways to get her to open up would be appreciated though, we can only be rude and/or very straight to the point and no holds barred with her., no middle ground there which is a shame.

Lae'zel on the flipside is more about showing strength, taking care of inmediate peril (the parasite) and alot of her personal biases come from Githyanki culture. She thinks Gith are super and others are inferior for example. She istent just rude per se either, she just speaks her mind. Regardless how that makes her appear to people. I have a part of Lae'zel's personality as well (the no bullshit straight to the point part) and people often perceive me as rude while the only thing im doing is beeing straight to the point. Alot of people dont get that or perceive it negatively. And before people misunderstand, its not that this personality trait means you dont understand tact or know when its needed. (ok maybe for Lae'zel it is but could be a cultural thing?) Its kind of the inverse, we dont beat around the bush or lie to make people feel better or make kind with people when we dont perceive them as such. Dident like the opinion you heard? Shouldnt have asked then. wink kinda like that.

I like the fact that their personalities clash as well. This was a thing in bg as well lest people forget. Some people would outright attack eachother if kept in the same party for to long! From what ive seen so far its only a mutual distrust though and hasent reached any outright hostilities (yet) although granted im just at the druid camp with this 2nd playthrough...
Posted By: Kraydenvar Re: Personas of main companions - 01/11/20 04:42 PM
Originally Posted by GoldenSphinx
I would also suggest some dialogue that is not so dire. We can talk about things that aren't life or death or moral and immoral, at least then we could be people for a bit and not folks ready to judge each other, take power, or take a controversial side.

Talk to shadowheart enough she tells you what flowers are her favourite and other stuff...like why she worships Shar...
Posted By: Rouoko Re: Personas of main companions - 01/11/20 04:51 PM
Astarion: I really don't like him, he care onyl abotu himself.
Gale: Dumb wizard by which mistake and lust for power every one around him can die.
Will: Good who want save people so he borrow power from demon and now don't want pay for it.
ShadowHeart: rude thief, very religious and secretive.
LaE'Zel: She blindly believes in the teachings of her people and trusts her queen. For her, all that matters is strength and the service of the queen.


I don't like any of those companions at all. If you wanted to be friend one of them I will refuse. Ok I can do job with them but I will never drink with them in my private time.
Posted By: Kraydenvar Re: Personas of main companions - 01/11/20 05:00 PM
Originally Posted by Rouoko
Astarion: I really don't like him, he care onyl abotu himself.
Gale: Dumb wizard by which mistake and lust for power every one around him can die.
Will: Good who want save people so he borrow power from demon and now don't want pay for it.
ShadowHeart: rude thief, very religious and secretive.
LaE'Zel: She blindly believes in the teachings of her people and trusts her queen. For her, all that matters is strength and the service of the queen.


I don't like any of those companions at all. If you wanted to be friend one of them I will refuse. Ok I can do job with them but I will never drink with them in my private time.

Isn't that the premise though? The party is one of circumstance and less one of choice. There is something rewarding about getting to know a character gradually rather than them just telling you what they are about straight off. I remember romancing Viconia in the previous games, the character showing her vulnerable moments after enough work. With Shadowheart we learn things as to why she is the way she is as you progress,
and once you find out what her mission is and her erased memory comes back or not there could be more

We can also speculate as to the connection they have with the tadpole, being able to pry into eachother's minds could understandably make the characters more distrustful of eachother to an extent.
Posted By: Rouoko Re: Personas of main companions - 01/11/20 05:08 PM
Viconia was really nice writed in BG 2 in BG 1 was really poor character. I start loved her when I played game second time but it was really hard to have her in party.
Jeheira was one of my favourite romances and was really nice companion in late game. In early she was like mother. Do that, don't do that.
Aerie was naive but I loved her backstory, and I always have her in my party if I can.
Jan I loved that bastard he was funny msot of time.
Natalia have no knowdle about world and people. She want be a good lord but she have no idea what to do.
Mazzy, I always wanted to ramance with her, I loved her backstory and her character in game.
And from EE I really loved Neera she was crazy but in good way, I loved her humor, and I want see that type character in BG 3, mabe a bard?
Posted By: Divine Star Re: Personas of main companions - 01/11/20 05:11 PM
On my first few playthroughs I wanted to get to know all of them and try to follow their side stories (save for LaE'Zel to be honest. I always just had her benched at the camp). However when I started later on while playing a more 'I don't care what you think', I found myself only sticking Asterion in my party and going it with just the two of us. There is a potential tiefling companion that I would love to have join us later, but they are not recruit able.


I stopped caring about Shadowheart. She never wants to share anything about herself, but when she said the line 'your business is my business', I realized how selfish and hypocritical she is. I used to always have her in my party but these days in my most recent playthroughs I don't even invite her to my camp.

I liked Gale. My goody goody two-shoesness (especially in wanting to help the tieflings) got me on good terms with him. But his 'I want to eat your rare equipment' thing turned me off. If he's not in my party, that won't be my problem. Sorry Gale, figure it out yourself my dude.

I usually ignored Wyll. I would invite him to my camp but never play him because I always play Warlock. When I tried a playthrough of bringing him and going through his revenge story, it became more trouble than it was worth. He's hella shady and I'm sure his quest is worth unfolding but... I like playing Warlock. No other class gives me the amount of satisfaction that Warlock does (Until we get Bard unlocked).

LaE'Zel. I personally hate people who are bossy and overbearing. From the start I felt really rebellious with her. 'You will do as I say', 'No, no I will not'. Now I just leave her in the cage. I used to free her and now I don't. When I tell her to say please and thank you, she's like 'no', so my natural reaction is going 'kay, bye'. I don't even feel bad about it.

Asterion is the only one I genuinely like. He's a horrible and selfish person. Probably charming you to get what he wants and seems likely to stab you in the back, but I seriously find him super fun to be around. He has fun dialogue (especially the barn scene) that tends to get overridden if you have others in your party (like Shadowheart always gives her two cents in my playthroughs) so I was super shocked by the things he actually had to say when it's just the two of us.


Hoping to see more companions but even more so, I'm hoping there's a way that all companions can add their input towards a situation or scene instead of one person saying something. Dragon Age Inquisition did companions right for me. Giving BG3 more time to finish and refine their game, I hope, adds more depths and casual dialogue/banter as we go.
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