Larian Studios
Feedback:
1. You are on a ship
2. The ship is destroyed
3. You don't die from the calamity because some unknown power saved you: DOS2 quote "I have plans for you child"
4. You wake up on land
5. You walk around to meet and possibly join your companions
6. You are united with your companions by your ailment (Sorcerer vs tadpole)

I know this is early access, but I wanted to point this out.


Suggestion:
1. You are on a ship and are infected
2. the ship escapes and returns to it's plain to retreat, because it is under attack from the Gith
3. As the ship docks you are held captive by the Mind flayers
4. The Gith follow the ship to finish the job
5. You meet Lae Zal here during the attack on the ship where it is docked (Dialogue options and choices, both of you still in your pods)
6. As you are still locked in the POD you are presented options by NPCs who interact with you:

Path 1> You agree to join the Mindflayers who open the pod, and eventually overwhelm the Gith into retreating. Maybe you meet the absolute, maybe you meet your competition.
Path 2> You join the Gith, Lae Zal or another Gith comes back and frees you from the pod. You join them in the assault, but are presented other options as it unfolds
Path 3> You stay neutral as the Events unfold, are eventually released by mind flayers, and have some unique options.

7. After time with the Gith or Mindflayers or another unique option, you are brought back to the mainland to do a main quest that isn't removing the tadpole, but that can be a over arching quest etc..

Thoughts ?
And all of the companions stories are way more important and compelling than yours lol
Because they gotta stay true to the Divinity series considering they're making DoS3
I don't know what's wrong that the beginning of the story resembles a DoS. This makes as much sense as getting upset that you start out as a prisoner in bethesda games.
If they want to do alien abduction right, they need to play South Park
Originally Posted by Orbax
And all of the companions stories are way more important and compelling than yours lol


100% agreed that this may potentially be the worst part.

While I don't mind the origin character system, the fact that Larian's characters are more special than yours is one of the worst design philosophies in DOS 2. It's even worst when it goes beyond narrative preferences and manifests itself in game mechanics (looking at you Gale, aka Fane of BG3 - I'm only level 1 but also a Chosen of Mystra I'm soooo special I can't even die like a normal person).

They have said that custom characters will be just as good this time around, but I'll believe it when I see it.
Everybody take a shot.
Originally Posted by Topgoon
Originally Posted by Orbax
And all of the companions stories are way more important and compelling than yours lol


100% agreed that this may potentially be the worst part.

While I don't mind the origin character system, the fact that Larian's characters are more special than yours is one of the worst design philosophies in DOS 2. It's even worst when it goes beyond narrative preferences and manifests itself in game mechanics (looking at you Gale, aka Fane of BG3 - I'm only level 1 but also a Chosen of Mystra I'm soooo special I can't even die like a normal person).

They have said that custom characters will be just as good this time around, but I'll believe it when I see it.


Haha "Tav, please meet the legends you will be travelling with. Legends, this is Tav. Tav cuts the brown spots out of potatoes or something. Or did before whatever this was happened. Tav apparently doesn't remember or his own mind erased the memory of his prior life out of self preservation so it wouldn't kill itself from the reality of Tav's life being the left over eraser marks from someone scrubbing a doodle out on the margins of the book of life."

Rest of legends: *a series of unenthusiastic mumbles*
Originally Posted by Orbax
And all of the companions stories are way more important and compelling than yours lol


Thanks for chiming in.
I wasn't talking about the companion origins or stories. I am talking about the Story Architecture (Main Story) being the same for your character that you are playing, who in the end could be an origin.
In fact the origins are one of the things I enjoyed in DOS2 a lot and added a cool way of getting to know characters and added some role playing elements.


But appreciate the feedback.
This needs to be top post ASAP and i agree there needs to be more paths at the beginning i think they'll add more options at launch hopefully
I see it more as a signature, a calling card if you will.
Frankly it doesn't bother me as it is all of the first 15-30 minutes and then poof, gone.

I agree with the other posts in here regarding more love for custom characters.
Originally Posted by Riandor
I see it more as a signature, a calling card if you will.
Frankly it doesn't bother me as it is all of the first 15-30 minutes and then poof, gone.

I agree with the other posts in here regarding more love for custom characters.


Interesting point, and well taken.
But I wouldn't call it a signature at all, but more like shortcuts. And they could have easily just changed one or two things. This really is just the beginning, but it has impact throughout the game.

Side not I wrote that in like 10 minutes, I would not mind volunteering creative talent if they accepted.
Interesting point of view for sure.
[/quote]

Haha "Tav, please meet the legends you will be travelling with. Legends, this is Tav. Tav cuts the brown spots out of potatoes or something. Or did before whatever this was happened. Tav apparently doesn't remember or his own mind erased the memory of his prior life out of self preservation so it wouldn't kill itself from the reality of Tav's life being the left over eraser marks from someone scrubbing a doodle out on the margins of the book of life."

Rest of legends: *a series of unenthusiastic mumbles*
[/quote]

This is awesome, very funny.
Originally Posted by SGTSPIRE
Feedback:

Suggestion:
...


I don't know if you are aware of this, but for legal reasons, once you have posted your suggestions for the continuation of the story you made sure Larian will not take them into consideration, even in case they look similar to what they already had in mind they would now be looking for ways to prove in court they didn't rely on your ideas, but thought of them earlier. Otherwise you'd have reason to sue them for royalties. That is why authors (especially ones who plan to write sequels) never read fanfictions of their own work, so they'd have deniability if what they write turns up to have similarity to what a fan wrote.
Anyone ever see the Brady Bunch movie, where every architectural design created by Mike Brady (the dad, who is an architect), be it a gas station, a fast food restaurant, or whatever, is the same exact design as his own home? Kind of reminds of Larian with the story telling. Point is OP, yeah I agree. I don't get hung up on it, though. From a creative standpoint, it sure does seem odd to squander an opportunity to do something fresh. But maybe, like musicians with their hit songs, they hate playing them show after show, but the crowd loves them.

For those who care to watch the scene:
Valid point. So let's make it clear that I am not, and will not pursue any damages or fees in any nature, for them following any ideas I have written, and that is is given under the public usage rights for anyone to use, as it is not copyrighted or published under my authority.

Furthermore, I volunteer to assist if they are willing with creative writing, as stated before in the hope of improving what we see in EA.

Also my hope is that they just used the Story Arc from DOS 2 to get them through EA, and that this is not replicated in full release.

Besides I joined EA to help provide feedback as well as try out the game.
Originally Posted by SGTSPIRE
Feedback:
1. You are on a ship
2. The ship is destroyed
3. You don't die from the calamity because some unknown power saved you: DOS2 quote "I have plans for you child"
4. You wake up on land
5. You walk around to meet and possibly join your companions
6. You are united with your companions by your ailment (Sorcerer vs tadpole)



You're not wrong. It is a very common RPG introductory story set-up, although BG3 does mirror DOS 2 more than others:

BG2:
1. You're in a dungeon
2. The dungeon is attacked by a "random faction" (Shadowthieves vs. Giths)
3. You don't die during your escape because the higher power - authoritarian mage-lords - conveniently interrupt when you run into the villain
4. You escape into a foreign location
5. You walk around to meet and possibly join your companions
6. The game makes up various, random reasons for people to risk their lives to help you save some girl you may or may not care about

NWN2 MoTB:
1. You're in a dungeon
2. The dungeon is infiltrated by a Red Wizard
3. You didn't die from a previous "Rock Falls, Everyone Dies" because some unknown power saved you
4. You escape into a foreign location
5. You walk around to meet and possibly join your companions
6. You are united with your companions by your ailment (Sorcerer vs. Tadpole vs. Spirit Eater)


Quote


Suggestion:
1. You are on a ship and are infected
2. the ship escapes and returns to it's plain to retreat, because it is under attack from the Gith
3. As the ship docks you are held captive by the Mind flayers
4. The Gith follow the ship to finish the job
5. You meet Lae Zal here during the attack on the ship where it is docked (Dialogue options and choices, both of you still in your pods)
6. As you are still locked in the POD you are presented options by NPCs who interact with you:

Path 1> You agree to join the Mindflayers who open the pod, and eventually overwhelm the Gith into retreating. Maybe you meet the absolute, maybe you meet your competition.
Path 2> You join the Gith, Lae Zal or another Gith comes back and frees you from the pod. You join them in the assault, but are presented other options as it unfolds
Path 3> You stay neutral as the Events unfold, are eventually released by mind flayers, and have some unique options.

7. After time with the Gith or Mindflayers or another unique option, you are brought back to the mainland to do a main quest that isn't removing the tadpole, but that can be a over arching quest etc..

Thoughts ?



I like the addition of choice to side with the Mindflayers, but similar to siding with the Goblins in the main-game, I feel like a narrative reason needs to be added in.

By default, you currently side with the Giths because the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" (or at least a convenient tool to escape). Since you start off as an infected prisoner of the Mindflayers, there's got to be reason you'd want to choose them over the Gith.

Maybe an additional, non-hostile interaction with one of the Mindflayers in the beginning? He/she can at least give you a sales pitch (aka this Tadpole is a great honor, tons of power, etc).
Originally Posted by Emrikol
Anyone ever see the Brady Bunch movie, where every architectural design created by Mike Brady (the dad, who is an architect), be it a gas station, a fast food restaurant, or whatever, is the same exact design as his own home? Kind of reminds of Larian with the story telling. Point is OP, yeah I agree. I don't get hung up on it, though. From a creative standpoint, it sure does seem odd to squander an opportunity to do something fresh. But maybe, like musicians with their hit songs, they hate playing them show after show, but the crowd loves them.

For those who care to watch the scene:


Nice tangent.
Good vantage point on duplicating success.

The story in DOS2 though in my opinion was not as good as it should have been. And the being saved by a God or deity, when you could have just washed up on shore like everyone else, seems cheesy. So that is kind of why I brought this up. The story in DOS2 had a lot of cheese "your special, your the one, your the divine " Your sacrifice will close the void. I almost started a mod to change the whole campaign and story line. It just feels empty in comparison to the creative talent focused on the Origins. I did end up creating mods, but just not to that scale.

Again my opinion, and appreciate the other views and comments.
Originally Posted by Topgoon


I like the addition of choice to side with the Mindflayers, but similar to siding with the Goblins in the main-game, I feel like a narrative reason needs to be added in.

By default, you currently side with the Giths because the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" (or at least a convenient tool to escape). Since you start off as an infected prisoner of the Mindflayers, there's got to be reason you'd want to choose them over the Gith.

Maybe an additional, non-hostile interaction with one of the Mindflayers in the beginning? He/she can at least give you a sales pitch (aka this Tadpole is a great honor, tons of power, etc).




To believe this, the character would have to lose half of his brain at this point. This makes even less sense when the character comes from the underdark.
Originally Posted by Topgoon
Originally Posted by SGTSPIRE
Feedback:
1. You are on a ship
2. The ship is destroyed
3. You don't die from the calamity because some unknown power saved you: DOS2 quote "I have plans for you child"
4. You wake up on land
5. You walk around to meet and possibly join your companions
6. You are united with your companions by your ailment (Sorcerer vs tadpole)



You're not wrong. It is a very common RPG introductory story set-up, although BG3 does mirror DOS 2 more than others:

BG2:
1. You're in a dungeon
2. The dungeon is attacked by a "random faction" (Shadowthieves vs. Giths)
3. You don't die during your escape because the higher power - authoritarian mage-lords - conveniently interrupt when you run into the villain
4. You escape into a foreign location
5. You walk around to meet and possibly join your companions
6. The game makes up various, random reasons for people to risk their lives to help you save some girl you may or may not care about

NWN2 MoTB:
1. You're in a dungeon
2. The dungeon is infiltrated by a Red Wizard
3. You didn't die from a previous "Rock Falls, Everyone Dies" because some unknown power saved you
4. You escape into a foreign location
5. You walk around to meet and possibly join your companions
6. You are united with your companions by your ailment (Sorcerer vs. Tadpole vs. Spirit Eater)


Quote


Suggestion:
1. You are on a ship and are infected
2. the ship escapes and returns to it's plain to retreat, because it is under attack from the Gith
3. As the ship docks you are held captive by the Mind flayers
4. The Gith follow the ship to finish the job
5. You meet Lae Zal here during the attack on the ship where it is docked (Dialogue options and choices, both of you still in your pods)
6. As you are still locked in the POD you are presented options by NPCs who interact with you:

Path 1> You agree to join the Mindflayers who open the pod, and eventually overwhelm the Gith into retreating. Maybe you meet the absolute, maybe you meet your competition.
Path 2> You join the Gith, Lae Zal or another Gith comes back and frees you from the pod. You join them in the assault, but are presented other options as it unfolds
Path 3> You stay neutral as the Events unfold, are eventually released by mind flayers, and have some unique options.

7. After time with the Gith or Mindflayers or another unique option, you are brought back to the mainland to do a main quest that isn't removing the tadpole, but that can be a over arching quest etc..

Thoughts ?



I like the addition of choice to side with the Mindflayers, but similar to siding with the Goblins in the main-game, I feel like a narrative reason needs to be added in.

By default, you currently side with the Giths because the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" (or at least a convenient tool to escape). Since you start off as an infected prisoner of the Mindflayers, there's got to be reason you'd want to choose them over the Gith.

Maybe an additional, non-hostile interaction with one of the Mindflayers in the beginning? He/she can at least give you a sales pitch (aka this Tadpole is a great honor, tons of power, etc).





Right on.
+1
I could write that narrative in this forum:

Physic voice " Do not be afraid, we may seem like the monsters you heard of, but are only attempting to save our race. Dramatic pause ... "You know, We are the most powerful and most feared of all sentients, and soon you will know that power " "When you are ready, reach out and we will begin your training"
Another thing that is a bit annoying is that every playthrough starts the same way and the paths dont really diverge until much further ahead, I am a bit sick of playing the nautiloid level again and again when the results dont vary, there isnt substantial loot or any decision making that changes your playthrough. You cant even keep the brain as a pet.
If we think about good dnd games or modules, some characters start or join in at different parts of the story, that could be according to the class you choose...
The absolute feels exactly like God king: big evil blob with a cultist you can join to immediately become evil with a railroaded evil path.
Originally Posted by drimaxus
Another thing that is a bit annoying is that every playthrough starts the same way and the paths dont really diverge until much further ahead, I am a bit sick of playing the nautiloid level again and again when the results dont vary, there isnt substantial loot or any decision making that changes your playthrough. You cant even keep the brain as a pet.
If we think about good dnd games or modules, some characters start or join in at different parts of the story, that could be according to the class you choose...

+1
Maybe there is a resource contention, but as some point I thought there was a deliverable to Wizards of the Coast. Is this story the accepted one by Wizards or was it just a licensing purchase ?
I was hoping Mike Mearls and the gang would have some involvement here or help shape the D&D side of things. I am a supporter of this game, but am just hoping for a better story and character development.
I am even willing to donate the content. In the end I want the game to succeed and want to enjoy playing it.
I can play this game: you are a prisoner in some unknown location. You try to find a way out, and you find yourself in a new and unknown place. You meet your companions and has to find out whoever did this to you.

Another - you are on a ship, you have to escape, and afterwards you find yourself in a new and unknown place. You need to find someone and a way out.
Not 100% sure if you are for a vanilla story, like it is not a big deal or you are re-enforcing the OP.
Either way thanks for the feedback.
Originally Posted by SGTSPIRE


Right on.
+1
I could write that narrative in this forum:

Physic voice " Do not be afraid, we may seem like the monsters you heard of, but are only attempting to save our race. Dramatic pause ... "You know, We are the most powerful and most feared of all sentients, and soon you will know that power " "When you are ready, reach out and we will begin your training"


Yeah, that works!

Another random thought I had with this set-up was that this might be an interesting moment to introduce the dream person. If the Dream Person is what helps you escape here, it'll go a long way to giving it credibility and listening to it more enticing. Although Larian's sort of done that with Divinity 2 (the original, Dragonknight game).

To make the choice even more ambiguous, you can even add a knowledge check when you meeting Lae'zel (Arcana?) to let you identify her as a Githyanki and their reputation.

SPOILERS

Role playing fixed roles (origin) is readng from a script not writing your own and was my biggest bugbare about divinity. I mean it's okay and Larian do it well but you are the avatar not the sidekick and being dragged down a linear path in an RPG is tedious. Even the choices are yes/no with dice rolls for fight/not are still either/or. I much prefer starting as a blacksmith or someone not "touched by divinity" to rule/destroy....bored now. These brain maggots are the same "god touched" McGuffin paradigm and has become derivative af.

Become powerful though discovery, adventure and hardwork not be given a no choice scenario. You must find a cure, no thanks I would much rather go to Baulders gate and join a guild. Oh wait the tadpoles are impossible to remove without another hamstrug task (EITHER above OR below) a druid somehow knows about and feels he must come long because by chance he needs to investigate an area that he theorises exists. Although these brain thingies are unheard of he absolutely knows for a fact those responsible are over there somewhere and he needs them to understand how to remove said McGuffin. No mate I just saved the grove from goblins and a bunch of other shit now there are extra strings attached? Nope, "looks like meat's back on the menu bois" CHOP!!

Lae'zel mentions she has faught lairs of beholders on the plane and gith warriors must bring the head of an illithid (she must hunt alone) to even be classed in the military caste. All this and you start as a new born baby. You kill a single beholder and you are level 6 from birth, same with illithids. Illithids are badarse CR 7-8 and beholders are absolutely crazy tough CR 13-14. A young red dragon what the gith dragon riders fly is CR-10. Killing one beholder is 11500xp. Bare in mind CR (challenge rating) is based off and entire group of adventurers.

You cannot give backstories like that and expect people to accept she has never left the barracks aka LV1. Master wizard with the ability to cast magic missiles and a few cantrips. 200 year old vampire noob. Blade of whatever (idk I hate this idiot) hero of his own imagination because he has never apparently left his moms basement. Cleric of Shar......and you, no backstory, no history and apparently just along for the ride. Why were you chosen to lead the group? No gith warrior is going to accept a lesser being as leader. Must make the current paradigm make sense at least a little.
The BG series has always been a story about the "chosen".
I like that this time we don't start by killing rats, you don't have to start the story always by being nobody.
And the fact that the campaign is intended for characters with a higher level does not matter. A good story shouldn't be limited by mechanics.
Yeah well, Larian is hardly the worst offender in reusing themes and settings.

[img]http://gallery.burrowowl.net/images/91/91fced37510a6e86c51bec002455e163[/img]
Originally Posted by DistantStranger
Yeah well, Larian is hardly the worst offender in reusing themes and settings.

[img]http://gallery.burrowowl.net/images/91/91fced37510a6e86c51bec002455e163[/img]

+1.
I can oversimplify every fantasy story and show you how they are all the same OP
Being a Sourcerer wasn't an ailment. It was a super power that normal people came to fear so a new religion sprouted up that believed Source had to be "cured", but it was never presented that way to the player.

The tadpole is actually more spiritually similar to being a Bhaalspawn like the older games. It is a dark power that threatens to transform you into something evil, but its seductive powers are too convenient to pass up. It even comes with special dream sequences where you wake up with more abilities unlocked. I imagine wanting to capture that same "you're infected with great power; what do you do?" story the original games had was part of why they chose this story beat.

As for the ship, I think Larian just wants that to be the calling card of their games. A little trope they adore and want to use in different ways whenever they go to make an RPG similar to how in most Elder Scrolls games you start off as a prisoner. Plus it beats "you and your party meet at a tavern" as far as giving your characters a sense of dramatic urgency goes.

Originally Posted by Soul-Scar

Lae'zel mentions she has faught lairs of beholders on the plane and gith warriors must bring the head of an illithid (she must hunt alone) to even be classed in the military caste. All this and you start as a new born baby. You kill a single beholder and you are level 6 from birth, same with illithids. Illithids are badarse CR 7-8 and beholders are absolutely crazy tough CR 13-14. A young red dragon what the gith dragon riders fly is CR-10. Killing one beholder is 11500xp. Bare in mind CR (challenge rating) is based off and entire group of adventurers.



Just saw this. Dunno what the rules are about double posting but I wanted to point out that Lae'zel admits she's never visited the Astral Realm before, which means she probably hasn't completed her rite of passage by slaying a mind flayer yet.

The PC can talk about the Githyanki city in dialogue so your PC can actually be older and more experienced than she is. It also shows if you let her interact with the Gith dragon-knight vs you doing it. Your character is a lot more well versed in Githyanki society than she is and won't insult the dragon-rider the way she accidentally does.

Lae'zel talks a big game but she's actually pretty young and inexperienced. I'd say she's probably the best of the companions for being a 1st level fighter. Fresh from her Creche and abducted by Ilithids and now terrified she'll die long before she can prove herself worthy.


Also, having killed cool monsters in your backstory is pretty common for DnD PCs. Especially as part of a larger group. Not everyone was a dirt farmer before they took up adventuring. And Hell, by your logic it should be impossible to make a level 1 Githyanki at all.
Originally Posted by Rhobar121
The BG series has always been a story about the "chosen".
I like that this time we don't start by killing rats, you don't have to start the story always by being nobody.
And the fact that the campaign is intended for characters with a higher level does not matter. A good story shouldn't be limited by mechanics.


Well you kill better than rats at the beginning of BG2 and I don't even mention ToB !
I don't think it' about mechanics, I think it's about realism (even if I personnaly don't really care at the moment).
Originally Posted by Zefhyr
Originally Posted by Rhobar121
The BG series has always been a story about the "chosen".
I like that this time we don't start by killing rats, you don't have to start the story always by being nobody.
And the fact that the campaign is intended for characters with a higher level does not matter. A good story shouldn't be limited by mechanics.


Well you kill better than rats at the beginning of BG2 and I don't even mention ToB !
I don't think it' about mechanics, I think it's about realism (even if I personnaly don't really care at the moment).


I meant BG1, in BG2 we started from a higher level.
Originally Posted by SaurianDruid
Originally Posted by Soul-Scar

Lae'zel mentions she has faught lairs of beholders on the plane and gith warriors must bring the head of an illithid (she must hunt alone) to even be classed in the military caste. All this and you start as a new born baby. You kill a single beholder and you are level 6 from birth, same with illithids. Illithids are badarse CR 7-8 and beholders are absolutely crazy tough CR 13-14. A young red dragon what the gith dragon riders fly is CR-10. Killing one beholder is 11500xp. Bare in mind CR (challenge rating) is based off and entire group of adventurers.



Just saw this. Dunno what the rules are about double posting but I wanted to point out that Lae'zel admits she's never visited the Astral Realm before, which means she probably hasn't completed her rite of passage by slaying a mind flayer yet.

The PC can talk about the Githyanki city in dialogue so your PC can actually be older and more experienced than she is. It also shows if you let her interact with the Gith dragon-knight vs you doing it. Your character is a lot more well versed in Githyanki society than she is and won't insult the dragon-rider the way she accidentally does.

Lae'zel talks a big game but she's actually pretty young and inexperienced. I'd say she's probably the best of the companions for being a 1st level fighter. Fresh from her Creche and abducted by Ilithids and now terrified she'll die long before she can prove herself worthy.


Also, having killed cool monsters in your backstory is pretty common for DnD PCs. Especially as part of a larger group. Not everyone was a dirt farmer before they took up adventuring. And Hell, by your logic it should be impossible to make a level 1 Githyanki at all.


No not really as there are 3 castes in the gith and 2 of those aren't military, quite possible for a member of the lower caste to be a lv 1 fighter. You simply cannot be a level one character and have killed a beholder, end of story. Lae'zel is a good character and well voice acted and by far one of the more interesting of the bunch.

She cannot possibly "have never left the astral plane" because she is an adult, you don't age on the astral plane that's why creche are in the material realm. She has jeweled armor, the sign of being part of the miliary caste....I could go on. I am point out facts in D&D lore not couldawudashuda. If I see something out of place or doesn't make sense I am going to say so. Ok explain a 200 year old vampire rogue newb? Not conjecture either.
Originally Posted by Soul-Scar

No not really as there are 3 castes in the gith and 2 of those aren't military, quite possible for a member of the lower caste to be a lv 1 fighter. You simply cannot be a level one character and have killed a beholder, end of story. Lae'zel is a good character and well voice acted and by far one of the more interesting of the bunch.

She cannot possibly "have never left the astral plane" because she is an adult, you don't age on the astral plane that's why creche are in the material realm. She has jeweled armor, the sign of being part of the miliary caste....I could go on. I am point out facts in D&D lore not couldawudashuda. If I see something out of place or doesn't make sense I am going to say so. Ok explain a 200 year old vampire rogue newb? Not conjecture either.




There is no "end of story" in DnD. Everything is up to the DM, even the rules as written. What is acceptable for a first level character at one table might not be at another. Personally if a player wanted to have been involved in a big fight against beholders I'd be fine with it as long as they didn't claim to 1v1 them. I've not gotten the specific beholder dialogue yet, but the way you phrased it sounded like she was fighting alongside others from her Creche, not soloing them all.

You misunderstood. She hasn't "never left the astral plane". She's never been TO the astral plane. She says she longs to one day visit it. This means she has not performed her rite of passage. She hasn't proven herself worthy of it yet, which is a big part of her character.
Funyn I was reading the last comment when Wyll spoke to me about his reputation and dragons, etc...
It's true I can't believe this guy can be this famous with THIS level xD
Originally Posted by Zefhyr
Funyn I was reading the last comment when Wyll spoke to me about his reputation and dragons, etc...
It's true I can't believe this guy can be this famous with THIS level xD


Wyll and Gale talk about not being as powerful as they used to be because of the tadpole messing with their magic. Playing a once mighty being who was brought low by circumstance and must build themselves back up is a somewhat common PC background.

I'm also not entirely sure Wyll is being honest about his achievements. He very much comes off as someone desperate to be a seen as a hero. So desperate he made a pact with an evil being for the power he needed to become a noteworthy hero in the first place.
It can be such a "trick" of the developers, to start all games from the ship that is wrecked. Why not, I liked it.
In any case, no one will completely rewrite the first act. They did a lot of work and this deserves respect.
But to make the first act better within the existing scenario - for this we are here
The similarities between DOS2 and BG3 story start are reminiscent of each other, but not the way you described.

Abducted
Held prisoner
Controlling device placed on the playable characters
First objective is to remove the controlling devices
Discover that you have powers or connection to gods or some sort of greater good
Bigger story arch begins

Beyond that, it seems like elements of the old BG games will help drive the story as far as old gods or cults still around trying to complete what they failed to do, but that is all theory talk on the forums so far.
While I did notice those similarities, I was able to look past them and continue playing. The rest of the game felt less like DOS2 as I continued, but that comes down to opinion at that rate. The start for sure is inspired/imitates the driving force to motivate your characters with a sense of urgency and maybe could have been better adapted to not feel so similar? Or maybe it is fine. Like it was said above, that could be the calling card like Elder Scrolls prisoner starts, or the classic D&D "you meet in a pub" adventure beginnings. Those are all fairly trite, so pick your poison.

As far as the companion characters being more interesting than you. It seems to be the case that you can pick from the pre-generated characters and then continue the story, or create a custom character.

In the event you pick a pre-generated character, they fleshed out an elaborate story so that if you play them, you have a driving force and motive to RP behind them. Additionally, if you are not playing any of those characters, now they have a compelling side quest to accomplish and a history/persona that you can decide who you want to RP with and invite to your group (or just pick based on group/class requirements).

The case with the custom character being bland. Larian did not write a compelling side quest narrative for the character "you" create. They could have put together a generic "you are a famous soldier traveling the lands when you were abducted by the mind flayers" or "you just escaped jail for stealing money from the local lord and you are on the run and then abducted" or any sort of generic line, after that the quest/story becomes about the fact that you are destined for greatness with these tadpole worms.

Instead Larian decided, that people who make custom characters often create RP backstories on their own and left it to you. They could have created a generic backstory based on the character creator choices and if you choose acolyte or urchin or guild artisan, but those would all be throw away stories and still less unique than any of the pre-generated characters.

All of these design choices make total sense and help provide choice to the player. Yet we as players seem to not like the choices and we want to be told how special we are and specific ways.....

You are more than welcome to play as your own or as a pre-generated character. The pre-generated will be better as you can pick the stats, the custom ones you have to deal with what is hard-programed in. Unless they allow for a re-spec after the first act, like in DOS2. I have a feeling people will freak out if they do that and cite more reasons this is DOS3 and not adhering to 5e and what not.
As far as character background, as a DM, I have gotten player involvement to be so much more intense and in-character by session 0 from spending 2-4 hours with each player going over their characters with them prior to it. They are so jazzed to demo their character that its great. What I do is fairly simple. I go every every one of their abilities and show the future paths they can take.

- Ok so you are a rogue. You can dual wield, single hand + shield, move to casting, sneak attack works at range so you can make a totally viable ranged rogue, how are you thinking you are going to want to engage the enemy
- Background - You said you wanted a gnome tinkerer who turned to stealing. There are a few fun places we could go from. There is a place called the High Hall of Wonders, which houses gnomish inventions. Lets say you stole something and had to flee, and you have no idea what you have yet, but you know people are looking for it.
- Where are you from. caves, forests..

You get the picture. By having something during character creation that shows races, primary concentrations, shows you cities with some backgrounds for the big towns and stuff, you pick your city, your background (which would pull from your location). So like you chose Arabel as your starting city, sailor background. You get a little blurb about the docks of the capital and the pirates that maraud in the sea of fallen stars.

If you actually BUILT a character instead of choosing a body and class, I think youd find a lot more buy in for "who" you are even without a "This is what you were doing 5 days before this happened" hard tie-in.

Edit: Play through the start of Tyranny for one version of this.
Those are all really good points that I think would help a lot of the complaints. More rp in the character creator. I tend to head cannon it as I have done for years, so this doesn't bother me, but I don't see how it could hurt.
Im honestly more worried that if the story carried next to no weight similar to DOS2, DOS2 act 4 was pretty bad - one decision for all endings, doesnt matter your previous choices other than the companion one. None of the ending variation end up mattering except the clearly evil one, which you can choose immediately before the ending screen. I honestly didn't care for the God king, Fane made a much better antagonist and his motive were much clearer than mustache twirling God king too. I don't understand why God King is clearly crazy and acts sadistic yet have full support of his equally crazy people, i dont know his backstory nor how he became who he is, just that he is an evil blob that will enslave everyone for reasons. There was so little interaction between me and the main villain i simply wanted to move on. I also didn't get why that crazy lady suddently want to be saved from her deal with the God king and why should i care, when shes been crazy and tried to kill me the entire game.

Lohse's story with the demonic doctor was much better - it carried emotional weight, you face the demon multiple times and he ties into the main plot, you needed a major sacrifice to finally defeat him (or you could choose otherwise), and then we celebrated with a beautiful "epilogue" and character development, which she recovers her voice. But the main story feel like inconsequential regardless of what i chose. If a character died there was no impact - you simply dont see their slides. My origin character play through didn't matter because "ONLY YOU KNOW THE STORY!" slide and followed up with again inconsequential 3 line description about our companion. Some of the subplot doesnt matter what the hell you chose the ending slide is a minor difference - you don't even see their impact.

I really hope it wont happen here.
Originally Posted by Cyka
Im honestly more worried that if the story carried next to no weight similar to DOS2, DOS2 act 4 was pretty bad - one decision for all endings,

Lohse's story with the demonic doctor was much better

My origin character play through didn't matter because "ONLY YOU KNOW THE STORY!" slide and followed up with again inconsequential 3 line description about our companion.

I really hope it wont happen here.



+1
I mean, not unlike BG2 then, where you start a prisoner, get broken out, saved by a bunch of powerful wizards and so on and so forth.

Standard starting RPG tropes be standard RPG tropes.

----

As for origin story being more interesting than PC, I think the issue here is that PC character is basically a FFA blank slate. I hope they might be able to spice it up a bit, but I'm not holding my breath that blank slate character's story will match fully developed origin companion with its own very well defined origin story spanning entire game.
Most RPGs by same makers follow certain tropes and structures. While similarities are striking on paper, I didn’t feel it when watching a walkthrough - BG3 intro felt quite distinct from D:OS2.
Originally Posted by Orbax

If you actually BUILT a character instead of choosing a body and class, I think youd find a lot more buy in for "who" you are even without a "This is what you were doing 5 days before this happened" hard tie-in.



Oh yah, I am always in favor of more character creation options. I am kind of disappointed that the backgrounds are so... Flaccid. They just give you skill proficiencies which while neat doesn't do much to really shape your character. Different backgrounds also infer abilities, tools, and other things based on what you picked. They should also definitely provide more dialogue options. If my character is a sailor I should have special dialogue concerning boats and the sea, as an example.

Also just more situations where an NPC asks you about your past with a few different options you can choose. Maybe even one or two race/class/background choices. It feels good to be made to think a little more about where my character came from even if it doesn't matter to the story.
To play the devil's advocate, it is possible they simply haven't coded in any conversation benefits from the Backgrounds.

Also, Backgrounds (officially) are more than just a couple of Proficiencies. They typically include Proficiencies, Tool Proficiencies, Languages, starter equipment and a Feature of some kind. Now obviously some of these would have less benefit depending on the setting. I mean, if you're an Acolyte in the Deep Desert, the Shelter of the Faithful Feature is probably of next to no use to you.

The benefits are more social than anything, and that takes work to pull off. Doubly so in a computer game. So its on Larian to have a decent number of conversation options where our Background come come into play.

Pillars of Eternity (for example) someone did the math to determine how many conversation checks there were based on your god. Each one had like a dozen over the course of the whole game. Some had more, some had less, but I think on average, most had around a dozen.

So it CAN be done. It's just possible (giving them benefit of the doubt here) they just haven't coded these things into the game yet.
Originally Posted by Zefhyr
Funyn I was reading the last comment when Wyll spoke to me about his reputation and dragons, etc...
It's true I can't believe this guy can be this famous with THIS level xD

That's the point. Wyll talks on and on about what a great hero he is, but based on how much he talks about it my guess it is just that - talk. I highly doubt that a guy that his biggest nemesis is a lame goblin ever saw a dragon prior to the game events.
Originally Posted by Abits
Originally Posted by Zefhyr
Funyn I was reading the last comment when Wyll spoke to me about his reputation and dragons, etc...
It's true I can't believe this guy can be this famous with THIS level xD

That's the point. Wyll talks on and on about what a great hero he is, but based on how much he talks about it my guess it is just that - talk. I highly doubt that a guy that his biggest nemesis is a lame goblin ever saw a dragon prior to the game events.


Can't let these high CHA warlocks pull a fast one on ya.
Originally Posted by Zefhyr
Funyn I was reading the last comment when Wyll spoke to me about his reputation and dragons, etc...
It's true I can't believe this guy can be this famous with THIS level xD

His patron is in horny jail
The thing is, creating unique stories is difficult. Because it is inevitable that out there someone has created a similar idea. A century ago.

So, what you do is accept that fact and put your personal spin on things. And yes, its also possible this storyline in EA is just a throw together. I've been in other EA games where the EA story had nothing to do with the real plot of the game.

Would be nice if they'd clarify, and if there were more options.

I don't see siding with Mindflayers being an option, especially since until you realize something is different about your tadpole, you're led to understand that it will kill you. Even then, there is concern that its just a slower process and you're still in danger of becoming a mind munching monster.

There's no way to put a positive spin on that outside of lying to you and not letting you know that you're undergoing ceremorphosis. This would of course fall apart the second you realized that they pulled a con job on you. And why persuade you to help them when they can just throw you in a cage and do it forcefully?

The only way I could see mortals allying with the illithid is corrupt nobles in a city based setting, conspiring to trade over the entire town to the illithid. Which would make you the BAD GUY of course.
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