Larian Studios
Posted By: Thomson Attacks deal too little damage. - 01/11/20 03:20 AM
Theoretically, I have an attack dealing 1d6+3+1d6 damage.

When I hit, the goblin loses 4 hit points.

The fundamental question is... how is this possible?
Posted By: KentDA Re: Attacks deal too little damage. - 01/11/20 04:29 AM
There are mobs that have Resistance which reduces damage. Obviously that's something Goblins should probably not have. So check the combat log the next time it happens. There might be Resistance or an active Shield which is reducing damage.
Posted By: Evandir Re: Attacks deal too little damage. - 01/11/20 05:53 AM
Why are you dealing a d6 with another d6?

Maybe you lost concentration on your damage buff, maybe you didn't meet the requirements for your buff, or maybe you did but the trigger for the buff is bugged.

Can't really help you without more information. And like Kent said, you can always check the combat log.
Posted By: Thomson Re: Attacks deal too little damage. - 01/11/20 07:00 PM
Originally Posted by Evandir
Why are you dealing a d6 with another d6?

Sneak attack.

Maybe Sneak Attack just does not work. (Btw 1d6 is wrong, too, since sneak attack at level 3 should deal 2d6 extra damage, but that is another thing)

However, it seems that all my ranged attacks consistently deal minimum damage or less.

IMO the goblin encounters are rediculously difficult, just because it seems the max damage roll on a d8 seems to be a 2.

Until that incident I thought that it just was bad luck. But since I am not aware that the typical d6 is able to roll a 0 I started to think it is a bug.

Maybe I will wait for a difficulty setting, where you can switch from "classic" which seems to mean "remotely inspired by D&D rules" to "D&D original"...




Posted By: Demoulius Re: Attacks deal too little damage. - 01/11/20 07:12 PM
If you are attacking with a shortbow I saw someone mention that its abit buggy sometimes.

Dont renember where I read it but ive also seem some weird shenanigans. Like Wyll doing 4 damage with a crit at the druid grove fight. I mean its possible to roll snake eyes, not denying that... but saw alot of crits doing minimum damage in that fight.
Posted By: Abits Re: Attacks deal too little damage. - 01/11/20 07:20 PM
Str ranger with greatsword my friend. One shot everything
Posted By: mahe4 Re: Attacks deal too little damage. - 01/11/20 07:23 PM
Originally Posted by Thomson
Originally Posted by Evandir
Why are you dealing a d6 with another d6?

Sneak attack.

Maybe Sneak Attack just does not work. (Btw 1d6 is wrong, too, since sneak attack at level 3 should deal 2d6 extra damage, but that is another thing)

However, it seems that all my ranged attacks consistently deal minimum damage or less.

IMO the goblin encounters are rediculously difficult, just because it seems the max damage roll on a d8 seems to be a 2.

Until that incident I thought that it just was bad luck. But since I am not aware that the typical d6 is able to roll a 0 I started to think it is a bug.

Maybe I will wait for a difficulty setting, where you can switch from "classic" which seems to mean "remotely inspired by D&D rules" to "D&D original"...



you need to use the sneak attack ability, to do sneak attacks.
don't ask me why. larian hated rogues probably, so they nerfed them to hell and back.
Posted By: BraveSirRobin Re: Attacks deal too little damage. - 01/11/20 07:30 PM
Originally Posted by mahe4

don't ask me why. larian hated rogues probably, so they nerfed them to hell and back.


Rogues are the beasts of this build atm dps wise, due to a couple of bugs. My Thief does 24-51 dam per round and self heals 4D6.
Posted By: mahe4 Re: Attacks deal too little damage. - 01/11/20 07:34 PM
Originally Posted by BraveSirRobin
Originally Posted by mahe4

don't ask me why. larian hated rogues probably, so they nerfed them to hell and back.


Rogues are the beasts of this build atm dps wise, due to a couple of bugs. My Thief does 24-51 dam per round and self heals 4D6.

really?
probably some insane magic items.
since i can't refund the game anymore, i want to try all the imbalanced shenanigans. can you tell me how you did that?
3 attacks + hex maybe?
Posted By: BraveSirRobin Re: Attacks deal too little damage. - 01/11/20 07:53 PM
Originally Posted by mahe4
Originally Posted by BraveSirRobin
Originally Posted by mahe4

don't ask me why. larian hated rogues probably, so they nerfed them to hell and back.


Rogues are the beasts of this build atm dps wise, due to a couple of bugs. My Thief does 24-51 dam per round and self heals 4D6.

really?
probably some insane magic items.
since i can't refund the game anymore, i want to try all the imbalanced shenanigans. can you tell me how you did that?
3 attacks + hex maybe?


STR based Shield Dwarf rogue, creation 16 STR, 14 DEX, 16 Con. At lvl 3 take thief for 2nd bonus action, at lvl 4 I took dual wielder feat to use heavier than light weapons in each hand. +1 splint mail gives 17 AC (should be 18 but dual wield feat is bugged and not giving +1 AC) and 35 HP's. First bug is sneak attack does NOT consume a bonus action but DOES attack with both hands. That is 2 attacks leaving two bonus action attacks with offhand giving your offhand 3 total attacks. Second bug is that you get your str modifier to damage in your offhand even though you shouldn't. If all 3 offhand attacks hit that's an extra 9 dam/round. I use the Faithbreaker Warhammer (Dwarf gives Warhammer proficiency) mainhand for 1D8+4+1D6 bludgeoning (6-18) and the shattered flail from the flind offhand for for 1D6+5 bludgeoning (6-11). Third bug is the shattered flail procs a 1d6 heal on every hit regardless of what weapon actually hits and putting 'Bane' on your target from the gloves of power. Now add on crushers ring for 11M movement per round with the potential to use ACTION:DASH for another 11 or a huge (16 str) Jump to disengage and reposition behind next target plus bonus action 'cunning dash' for a third 11M and fourth dash from a bonus action if you get the boots of speed. If you wanna get fancy you can add on invis from the Shadow Hood and Misty Step from the amulet. Tanky HP's, high AC, massive DPS, insane movement and repositioning ability plus lots of self heals and the ability to get out of any bad situation at will.
Posted By: mahe4 Re: Attacks deal too little damage. - 01/11/20 07:58 PM
Originally Posted by BraveSirRobin
Originally Posted by mahe4
Originally Posted by BraveSirRobin
Originally Posted by mahe4

don't ask me why. larian hated rogues probably, so they nerfed them to hell and back.


Rogues are the beasts of this build atm dps wise, due to a couple of bugs. My Thief does 24-51 dam per round and self heals 4D6.

really?
probably some insane magic items.
since i can't refund the game anymore, i want to try all the imbalanced shenanigans. can you tell me how you did that?
3 attacks + hex maybe?


STR based Shield Dwarf rogue, creation 16 STR, 14 DEX, 16 Con. At lvl 3 take thief for 2nd bonus action, at lvl 4 I took dual wielder feat to use heavier than light weapons in each hand. +1 splint mail gives 17 AC (should be 18 but dual wield feat is bugged and not giving +1 AC) and 35 HP's. First bug is sneak attack does NOT consume a bonus action but DOES attack with both hands. That is 2 attacks leaving two bonus action attacks with offhand giving your offhand 3 total attacks. Second bug is that you get your str modifier to damage in your offhand even though you shouldn't. If all 3 offhand attacks hit that's an extra 9 dam/round. I use the Faithbreaker Warhammer (Dwarf gives Warhammer proficiency) mainhand for 1D8+4+1D6 bludgeoning (6-18) and the shattered flail from the flind offhand for for 1D6+5 bludgeoning (6-11). Third bug is the shattered flail procs a 1d6 heal on every hit regardless of what weapon actually hits and putting 'Bane' on your target from the gloves of power. Now add on crushers ring for 11M movement per round with the potential to use ACTION:DASH for another 11 or a huge (16 str) Jump to disengage and reposition behind next target plus bonus action 'cunning dash' for a third 11M and fourth dash from a bonus action if you get the boots of speed. If you wanna get fancy you can add on invis from the Shadow Hood and Misty Step from the amulet. Tanky HP's, high AC, massive DPS, insane movement and repositioning ability plus lots of self heals and the ability to get out of any bad situation at will.

nice. it's obvious, that larian never played a game of 5th edition. the balance in this game is whack.
Posted By: BraveSirRobin Re: Attacks deal too little damage. - 01/11/20 07:58 PM
I tried going to 18 STR at level 4 and continuing to use light weapons (dragons grasp hand axe mainhand, +1 handaxe offhand). This gives another +1 to hit and +1 to dam per attack but it just didn't seem as deadly not to mention no self heals.
Posted By: BraveSirRobin Re: Attacks deal too little damage. - 01/11/20 08:05 PM
Originally Posted by mahe4


nice. it's obvious, that larian never played a game of 5th edition. the balance in this game is whack.


I have reported all 4 bugs (counting dual wield feat bug). I am sure they'll fix them all long before release but this build would still be brutal imo.

[Linked Image][Linked Image]
Posted By: Thomson Re: Attacks deal too little damage. - 04/11/20 02:06 AM
Originally Posted by mahe4


you need to use the sneak attack ability, to do sneak attacks.
don't ask me why. larian hated rogues probably, so they nerfed them to hell and back.


I did use the sneak attack ability. But I guess I figured out the problem. The game allows you to do sneak attack even if it does not work. So you have to make sure that you have one ally standing really within 1.5m of that enemy. Or you think you can sneak attack, but when your ally is 1.6m away you don't deal extra damage.

And it is really rediculous that they nerfed sneak attack damage.

And it is strange that you seem to have to use some exploits to have a chance in battle.

Posted By: Niara Re: Attacks deal too little damage. - 04/11/20 03:15 AM
One thing worth noting; as long as you are using the correct weapons, if you are making an attack with advantage - for any reason and any situation - then you should be getting your sneak attack (selecting sneak attack should actually deliver the extra damage, in the game's case). This is currently not working. There are myriad instances where advantaged attacks with sneak attack are not applying sneak attack at all.
Posted By: Firesnakearies Re: Attacks deal too little damage. - 04/11/20 06:45 AM
They didn't nerf Sneak Attack damage. The tooltip just doesn't update. If you check your combat log when you Sneak Attack at level 3+, you'll see that it does do 2d6. In order to Sneak Attack in this game, you need advantage AND you need to NOT have any disadvantage. I've seen lots of people play this, and they wonder why Sneak Attack isn't working, but it's because they have a penalty due to light level or being threatened or something.

There is one bug, though, with Sneak Attack. Ranged Sneak Attack only gets advantage from higher ground. When you are merely Hiding, and it shows that you have advantage, but you are NOT on higher ground, Sneak Attack doesn't work. So for ranged, you need to be on higher ground. For melee, you need to be backstabbing. The whole "if an ally is next to them" thing has not seemed to work much, if at all, for me.
Posted By: Zahur Re: Attacks deal too little damage. - 04/11/20 08:03 AM
Sneak Attack implementation is weird. I think then need to change it to be Toggle next to the Attack of Opportunity button. When turned on, you will simply deal Sneak Attack extra damage with any attack if you have an advantage. That way it will work even with opportunity attack, which is supposed to work. Also they need to to change the description and implementation to really show and deal 1d6, 2d6, 3d6 etc, because it is not same as 1d6*2, 1d6*3 (different probability distribution of results). And there is also problem you can have attack with any weapon and not just ranged or finnese. It may be intentional but it felt really weird when I was backstabing and sneak attacking with greatsword or greatclub.
Posted By: Nyanko Re: Attacks deal too little damage. - 04/11/20 08:07 AM
Originally Posted by Zahur
Sneak Attack implementation is weird. I think then need to change it to be Toggle next to the Attack of Opportunity button. When turned on, you will simply deal Sneak Attack extra damage with any attack if you have an advantage. That way it will work even with opportunity attack, which is supposed to work. Also they need to to change the description and implementation to really show and deal 1d6, 2d6, 3d6 etc, because it is not same as 1d6*2, 1d6*3 (different probability distribution of results). And there is also problem you can have attack with any weapon and not just ranged or finnese. It may be intentional but it felt really weird when I was backstabing and sneak attacking with greatsword or greatclub.



No they can't. As I have already posted elsewhere, you can only do one sneak attack per turn. And so when your rogue levels up enough to get several attacks per turn, you need to be able to choose which one will be a sneak attack. That's why it can't be a toggle.
Posted By: Zahur Re: Attacks deal too little damage. - 04/11/20 08:25 AM
You still can have it on toggle. When you don't want to make Sneak Attack, you untoggle it, make single attack, and toggle it again. But yeah, it may became annoying if you need it literally every turn.

As I see it now we have very unconsistent UI. Opportunity Attack is limited on once per round and you may not want to use that opportunity on the first mob. Now you have no chance to influence it. Solasta is showing popup window with question but frankly I don't like it. It is also annoying.

Maybe there is a compromise. Have it on toggle which influence standard attack action but also have special attack buttons ignoring the toggle to make forced attack with or without Sneak Attack. Or maybe something like holding Ctrl-Left-click will disable all toggles?
Posted By: Firesnakearies Re: Attacks deal too little damage. - 04/11/20 10:23 AM
Toggle would work fine. The number of times when you'll want to toggle it off will be few.
Posted By: Nyanko Re: Attacks deal too little damage. - 04/11/20 10:34 AM
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Toggle would work fine. The number of times when you'll want to toggle it off will be few.


That's not true at all. In many instances, when your current target is only a few hit points away from dying, you won't want to waste your sneak attack on them. And as rogues do lots of damage, these situations might happen a lot. You can only jump once a turn so the ideal thing to do will be to use your sneak attack on your next enemy. And after level 5-6, I don't remember which level rogues get their second attack, you might have a 50% chances not using it on the first one.

It will be more so the case when you will have 3 attacks a turn and so on.

Personally, I would rather have an action button the way it is now than a toggle. It's one less click to do every round (use your sneak action vs toggle off/toggle on + attack action)
Posted By: Firesnakearies Re: Attacks deal too little damage. - 04/11/20 10:39 AM
Rogues don't get second attack in 5e. You'd have to multiclass.

With the button as we have now, you can't Sneak Attack with an offhand weapon, you can't Sneak Attack with a special arrow, you can't Sneak Attack on an opportunity attack. That's a big reduction in overall utility.
Posted By: mrfuji3 Re: Attacks deal too little damage. - 04/11/20 04:34 PM
Agree with toggle. It would allow sneak attack to be used with whichever hand attack you wanted, in combination with whatever special abilities, and allow allow for sneak attacks to apply during AoOs.

The currently-implemented toggle that swaps main hand attack to dual wielding happens almost instantly, so a similar sneak attack toggle would take up way less time then having to find and click a sneak attack button every single turn.

Also it needs to change to dealing Xd6 instead of 1d6*X damage, so that dealing <5 damage with sneak attack happens less often. And the "to hit" indicator should explicitly say whether you have sneak attack (figuring out if my ally is technically within 5 feet is difficult).
Posted By: Firesnakearies Re: Attacks deal too little damage. - 04/11/20 04:38 PM
They just need to put Sneak Attack over in the reactions/toggles area, just like Repelling Blast.
Posted By: Zahur Re: Attacks deal too little damage. - 04/11/20 05:39 PM
This:
[Linked Image]

And to answer OP question: Sneak Attack is now done as separate damage instance, which btw opens up the way for lots of exploits. So when you see 1d6+3+1d6 on current Sneak Attack button, it deals 1d6+3, and then it deals another 1d6. If something modifies the damage, both damage instances are modified like they are a completely separate attacks. For example, if you have Great Weapon Master enabled, both attacks get +10. See here:

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Thomson Re: Attacks deal too little damage. - 06/11/20 10:43 PM
Originally Posted by Zahur
This:
[Linked Image]

And to answer OP question: Sneak Attack is now done as separate damage instance, which btw opens up the way for lots of exploits. So when you see 1d6+3+1d6 on current Sneak Attack button, it deals 1d6+3, and then it deals another 1d6. If something modifies the damage, both damage instances are modified like they are a completely separate attacks. For example, if you have Great Weapon Master enabled, both attacks get +10. See here:

[Linked Image]

I looked at the hit points of the enemy before and after the attack, so that was not the problem.

Also I don't think you need toggling at all.

There is a separate button for sneak attack and for normal attack.

The sneak attack button should only be enabled when you really can make a sneak attack.

It is that simple. It is rediculous that I can choose that option even though it does not work.
Posted By: lvl20DM Re: Attacks deal too little damage. - 06/11/20 11:20 PM
I'm having trouble identifying what is working as intended with sneak attack, and what is a bug. In 5e, sneak attack only works with finesse or ranged weapons - not so here. It doesn't always work with ranged attacks (as previously mentioned) - I now know that is a bug, in that attacking from hiding doesn't deal sneak attack damage. It really ought to be a toggle. A rogue is only getting one or two attack per round (unless they multiclass or get boosted with spells), so that really shouldn't be an issue.
Posted By: fallenj Re: Attacks deal too little damage. - 06/11/20 11:48 PM
Sneak attack does not work as you would think, just like advantage and disadvantage you don't follow the rules of actually rolling dice, instead you get a flat bonus to the roll from what it looks like.

I got on my main and back stabbed a halfling merchant here is what I got while stealthed and behind the target.

Armor Class: 15
Base Attack/Damage
Attack Roll: 17 (1d20, Advantage) +2 (Proficiency) +4 (Dex Mod) = 23
Damage Roll: 3 (1d6 Piercing) +4 (Dex Mod) = 7

Sneak Attack
Attack Roll: 17 (1d20, Advantage) +2 Proficiency) +4 Dexterity Mod.) = 23
Damage Roll: 3 (1d6 Piercing)*((4(Level)-1) / 2+1) = 6

So for the sneak attack you roll the 1d6 times it by your level minus one and divide it by 2+1 (whatever those numbers mean) to gain the additional bonus.

You can see this formula in the combat log, on the bottom right open it up an make it bigger. Combat log for whatever reason also starts at the very top of the load in so you have to scroll down every time to see current stuff.

Truthfully I kind of wonder whats going on under the hood of this game. Removing random dice to flat bonuses is where I would draw the line, height an backstab advantage plus other junk just I really dont care. Dice rolling/randomness to the game is flat out d&d in every edition.

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