Larian Studios
Hi there
I really enjoy this game so far, there is only one thing that I don't like:

Since when we met, Laezel keeps telling me how important it is to find her friends which are the only ones who can help us getting rid of the tadpole. So I did my best, try to ignore all the other weird stuff going on and head on to the place where the Githyanki patrol was.
I thought that since I got one of them with me, they should have some trust in me and at least do not try to kill me immediately. However, I was wrong. Suddenly about 5 heavy armed Githyanki warriors attacked me, all level 5. There was no chance in the fight, it was a massacre (my party was level 3, me (Ranger), Laezel, Shadowheart and Gale. So I reloaded and tried other dialog options, but all of them lead to the green skinned guys attacking me and a total party kill.

This is no fun. There were absolutly no signs that this will happen, and that those guys are so strong. Of course the fight IS somehow winnable, either you have A LOT of luck or you use some cheese mechanics, but it kill immersion and I always feel bad when I start cheesing.
I had to load an earlier save and start to go to the Goblin camp, which I didn't want to and does not fit the personality of my character (he's a bounty hunter who always searches for the easiest, fastest solution of things, and due to laezel who seems trustworthy the Githyanki way is the best to get rid of the brain worms).

Stuff like this forces me to play the game not like I want, but like the game wants to be played.

I hope this will change after EA. Just give some more hints that those Gith will not be that nice as expected and rescuing the druid may even be the easier way to go.

English is not my native language so sorry for some mistakes in the writing.




Originally Posted by Kokonut
Hi there
I really enjoy this game so far, there is only one thing that I want I don't like:

Since when we met, Laezel keeps telling me how important it is to find her friends which are the only ones who can help us getting rid of the tadpole. So I did my best, try to ignore all the other weird stuff going on and head on to the place where the Githyanki patrol was.
I thought that since I got one of them with me, they should have some trust in me and at least do not try to kill me immediately. However, I was wrong. Suddenly about 5 heavy armed Githyanki warriors attacked me, all level 5. There was no chance in the fight, it was a massacre (my party was level 3, me (Ranger), Laezel, Shadowheart and Gale. So I reloaded and tried other dialog options, but all of them lead to the green skinned guys attacking me and a total party kill.

This is no fun. There were absolutly no signs that this will happen, and that those guys are so strong. Of course the fight IS somehow winnable, either you have A LOT of luck or you use some cheese mechanics, but it kill immersion and I always feel bad when I start cheesing.
I had to load an earlier save and start to go to the Goblin camp, which I didn't want to and does not fit the personality of my character (he's a bounty hunter who always searches for the easiest, fastest solution of things, and due to laezel who seems trustworthy the Githyanki way is the best to get rid of the brain worms).

Stuff like this forces me to play the game not like I want, but like the game wants to be played.

I hope this will change after EA. Just give some more hints that those Gith will not be that nice as expected and rescuing the druid may even be the easier way to go.



Ahem... did you notice that Lae'zel is actually an evil zealot and when she talks about "purification" everyone feels unconfortable? She also knows less than she think she does and assumes things that are not actually true. As for your "problem", in RPGs some areas/encounters are more difficult than others and you should not expect to be able to win every fight because you just want to do so. The fight with the Gityanki is quite challenging if you try to take them when you are level 2 (not impossible if you know how to place yourself and how to use explosives). It becomes quite easy when you get to level 4.

Suggesting the game should scale down difficulty of encounters based on what you want to do, so you have an easy time suceeding (because that's fun in your opinion) is just not what this game needs imo.
Okay here is the thing.

I believe the area we are in may not be the entire ACT 1 area, and if it is then there are some fights that are obviously set up for higher level adventurers. We may be higher level when we actually would normally get that encounter.

This area may change a bit at launch and the companions we find here may not be the ones that are in the EA. We know that they included the companions they did so that evil playthroughs (which they requested) would be more viable. You may not meet Lae'Zel until later in the game, and end up coming back here for her quest at a higher level.
There aren't really any difficult encounters in this game so far. You just need to practice playing the game. Try scouting instead of blindly walking into areas. Approach people carefully and position yourself for a fight in case the conversation goes badly.

In short, "git gud."
Originally Posted by Fisher
There aren't really any difficult encounters in this game so far. You just need to practice playing the game. Try scouting instead of blindly walking into areas. Approach people carefully and position yourself for a fight in case the conversation goes badly.

In short, "git gud."


I don't think that most people expected them to be hostile towards you tbh, even less so with Lae'Zel around.
This fight was hard.

People will come in here and tell you it was easy. That they did it at level 2 or 3 easily using barrels, explosives, preemptively positioning before the fight, abusing push or invisibility/fog cloud or darkness. Others will say they soloed it with one of the broken class/race/feat/item combos.

Again this fight was hard. And that's okay. EA will be encounters will be tuned, level cap for first area will most likely go to 5. I personally like that there are fights that are more difficult, that you have to come back to with a stronger team. Gives this game a larger feel, a sense of progression and accomplishment
There are more than a few difficult fights with enemies near impossible to take on. The gityanki is one example, the green hag, I haven't gotten too far into the Underdark because the enemies seem beyond me. I don't have the armor, weapons, abilities or scores to match them. They are able to wipe me out in a round or two killing my characters with one attack. It is not about getting good. I can beat some with exploits and lucky rolls. It's not fun. Especially since my level is capped at four, I can't change my party without going to camp, many of the magical weapons are cursed, magical armor is rare. When trying to fight the Green Hag, for example. I attempted to position my party in ways that they were hidden and spread out and then the battle wouldn't spawn, she disappeared, so I had to group them all together and I couldn't use stealth. Using stealth is weird as players will not immediately enter combat and when they do they are thrown into an initiative order I can not figure out which offtimes means their turn is skipped. Surprise doesn't seem to work as even when I accomplish it I get screwed in that one character gets to act and the rest are left out and sometimes ignored for up to two rounds even when in the initiative order.
Originally Posted by dotemtpy
This fight was hard.

People will come in here and tell you it was easy. That they did it at level 2 or 3 easily using barrels, explosives, preemptively positioning before the fight, abusing push or invisibility/fog cloud or darkness. Others will say they soloed it with one of the broken class/race/feat/item combos.

Again this fight was hard. And that's okay. EA will be encounters will be tuned, level cap for first area will most likely go to 5. I personally like that there are fights that are more difficult, that you have to come back to with a stronger team. Gives this game a larger feel, a sense of progression and accomplishment


During my first playthrough (Lvl 4 Dwarven Battlemaster Fighter/Lae'zel/Astarion/Shadowheart) i walked into the Gith without being rested and started talking to them then they attacked to great effect thanks to misty step (and double attacks). I quickly lost Lae'zel (critted) then Astarion and Shadowheart. They had managed to cut down a couple of Gith before falling but it wasn't enough. Meanwhile I had managed to position my character on higher ground and got rid of the Gith who had placed himself up there (a couple of attacks and and then shoving him down did the trick) the rest I cut down by throwing stuff at them (like the Illithid "gravity bombs" you get from the nautiloid, damage plus falling damage work great in this game) and then killing the last remaining one. My problem was I didn't have resurrection scrolls on me and I had to go buy them since you cannot rest when one of your characters is dead...

My second playthrough (Half elf Warlock 3/Lae'zel/gale/Shadowheart) I knew what to expect. I separated my characters and place them all on higher ground then I sent Lae'zel to talk with the Gith. The ensuing confrontation was a one sided slaughter in my favor...
You can't do any stealth there, as soon as you go into reach the dialog and afterwards the fight begins. If "git gud" means placing oil barrels and abusing fog cloud bugs then I won't "git gud" at all.
I don't expect to win every fight, but this fight is NOT winnable without cheesing or multiple reloads, so there should be at least either a hint that those giths are so strong (even if I would expect them to attack me, I wouldn't expect them all to be at level 5) or a way to avoid the fight.

I am no newbie in RPGs, I play DnD for a long time and if my DM would challange my level 3 party with such a fight he would just be.. a bad DM. A good DM would give you hints that if you go this way, you would most likely die.

I want to play this game "fair" and DnD-like, not DOS2-like by abusing all this stuff.
Originally Posted by Kokonut
You can't do any stealth there, as soon as you go into reach the dialog and afterwards the fight begins. If "git gud" means placing oil barrels and abusing fog cloud bugs then I won't "git gud" at all.
I don't expect to win every fight, but this fight is NOT winnable without cheesing or multiple reloads, so there should be at least either a hint that those giths are so strong (even if I would expect them to attack me, I wouldn't expect them all to be at level 5) or a way to avoid the fight.

I am no newbie in RPGs, I play DnD for a long time and if my DM would challange my level 3 party with such a fight he would just be.. a bad DM. A good DM would give you hints that if you go this way, you would most likely die.


Ok... as a DM I agree you as a player should get an hint about these Giths being dangerous psycopaths. Fact is you get all those hints. Lae'zel doesn't know what she's talking about (listen to her banter carefully and you'll get it). The Githyanki are a bunch of evil zealots and them talking about "purification" should raise alarms in your mind. Third, when you notice the adult red dragon you should know they are pretty dangerous.

Anyway: try unlinking your party, place them on the towers above the battlefield (you can easily do so when approaching the Githyanki, it's the spot where the tiefling huntress is hiding then spread your characters out) then send your tank to talk with the Gith and start the encounter. When they try to engage you, hit them and then shove them down, the combination of attack damage plus falling damage will get rid of most of them. If you need to finish them with bombs or fire/explosives comboes.
Barely made it the first time, it's tough and for people who expect every fight is winnable it will be frustrating. I'm glad some of the "this group is too strong for you right now, hero" was left in the game. You are level 3 and they are level 5, which means a variety of things you get too when you level up.

If you really want to make it at level 3 use resistance potions, haste potions, invisibility potions, the aid spell and whatever else you have. Some of them you can take before talking to them.

Above all else though I feel like there should be a peaceful resolution, depending on how the chat with the comanding gith went.
I'm pretty sure there is a peaceful way to deal with the situation.
In my first playthrough, Lae'zel rushed to speak with them, then my character got to the conversation. I decided to let her speak and at some point when they talk about the weapon you get a persuasion check to tell Lae'zel to play along and not tell them anything. After they just leave.
That solution is still a bit bugged because Lae'zel comments you should check the bodies for a clue but nobody is dead so there is no way to progress her personal quest.
In my second playthrough I just killed them to see how hard the fight would be and that was worth it.
The fight is unexpected and quite awkward. It is possible without luck or cheesing it (I'm not especially good at either) but it's definitely one of those late game encounters (at least late in terms of what we have) and requires some careful manoeuvring, or at least separating your characters and putting the couple that aren't Lae'zel and the PC into advantageous positions.

Originally Posted by Fisher
In short, "git gud."

Don't go there. It's neither helpful nor amusing and isn't welcome here.
If you beeline to the patrol, you may not be level 4 yet, or have collected enough +1 weapons and other trinkets to handle it. Given the location on the map, it's intended to be a late encounter in Act 1.

Personally, I like games that have very hard encounters that I stumble into, and have to come back later to deal with. In DOS2, I remember the group of scarecrows in a field that looked harmless, and suddenly wiped our party when they came alive. We hadn't leveled up enough, and my wife and I in co-op were still getting used to the combat systems. So we just came back later when we could handle it.

Finally, I don't think the game is perfectly balanced yet, and Larian may eventually tweak this difficulty. Especially if Act 2 locks out a return to Act 1 to finish up things like this.
Yes the fight was one of the more challenging due to them all using misty step etc. but the game would be beyond boring without challening fights even the ones you loose the first time around, i certaintly hope for most of the fights to be super challenging without getting the feeling of the AI cheating too much.
Maybe....I feel like Larian games typically have a fight order you have to figure out DOS2 was full of that.
I don't care you amazing you are at turn based strategy games, I dare you to walk straight into those scarecrows before leveling on other fights....

I feel like fIguring out the best order to handle encounters (by dying a lot) is part of the overall Larian strategy theme.
I kind of like that, but I maybe a weirdo.
I don't think there is such a thing in Larian games. Remember that right now there is much more xp than levels, and I assume that the toughest fights in the ea will be much less hard with an extra level or two
So the first time I encountered these Gith I talked my way through it. Telling people I had rotten wormy brains didn't strike me as advantageous also Lez is aggressive enough and she likes me. These guys were killing the Flaming Fist for laughs.

Second time I wanted a fight. They were assholes and I wanted to put their dicks in the dirt.. If I remember correctly there are only four of them, and only one is level 5. Do the double attacks hurt? Absolutely. Are they going to drop someone? Almost certainly. It is an imbalanced encounter. . .However, it is also immediately in front of the exit of Act 1. I get why you rushed there, I did the same thing for what I imagine are the same reasons, and like you I also resent being forced to learn through failure and the truth is this is not a fair fight. . .But its also true that not every fight should be fair. Its difficult and frustrating but it isn't impossible. Take it as an opportunity to learn to play more strategically and improve upon your efficacy.

Have fun with it, like this guy:


https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGat...ncy_is_a_dead_meta_use_hoardermancy_for/
What makes it worse is that you have to go through a billion dice checks lol.
And then on top of that too if you ask him to clarify what the weapon is he just attacks you for asking questions.
I was all like '' oh so I am helping these guys now '' and asked him to clarify and he sentenced me to death.
Occasionally running into fights which aren't winnable at your current level is fun, but I'm sure there will be adjustable difficultly levels for those who disagree.
The gith fight is the only one I didnt "master" and needed to barrel. Unlinking in group and putting characters in stealth doesnt work with this one. You cannot get surprise on them.
There is now a warning cinematic before getting there (and no more talking yourself out of a fight). The difficulty itself has been lowered (less HP), but the misty step double tap hits to hard especially with them getting intiative almost all the time.
I tried this fight a few times. Got slaugjtered ever yime. The explored the rest of the area and came back when i had done everything else and managed it without to much trouble.

Its doable if youve done the rest first. Ive also strolled past them disguisijg shadowheart as a githjanki (no Laezel in party) and talked myself to avoid the fight. Ive heard others say the same eith a gith PC so non violent options are also possible.

But yeah, the encounters as a whole need some work.
Im sorry, but there was several hints. :-/

Bigest of them is named Shadowheart ...
The way Lae'zel is talking to litteraly anyone, including you, even in situation when you are her only hope for freedom. :-/
Then there was that dragon, burning flaming fist soldiers ...
Or his rider specificly says "question, kill, then move on" ...
Also you see their levels ...

And i bet i could find some more. :-/

Originally Posted by Fisher
In short, "git gud."

You have typo there ... its Gith gud. laugh
Unfortunately Larian’s game has always been about basically know every encounter beforehand or wipe. Its either you wipe or you get yourself absurd advantage and then wipe them. It saddens me greatly that this is once again encouraged here and again greatly reduces the ways you solve an encounter. It is just boring really if every encounter expect me to position high ground + abusing some kind of explosive or prep - because it makes every encounter the same and makes replaying a snooze fest since you already solved the game.

I played DOS2 once and never touched it again - i have solved the game and one strategy beats all. I know all encounters beforehand so ambush is pointless and since highground/surpise factor matter so much with this game i pretty much won already with just pre-positioning. I hope it wont be the case here.
Amusingly when I did this fight on my first time Shadowheart killed three Githyanki by shoving them off the gate because they kept chasing her up there. The third teleported to the gate where my spider was waiting.

Which I TOTALLY planned. Yep. The spider definitely didn't just sit there as I climbed down and forgot about it again. Deeefinitely.

I do sympathize though. That is a rough fight. Especially if you're not expecting it. Though you probably should go in expecting to fight them if you listen to anyone other than Lae'zel about the Githyanki.

What the game really needs is a better what to disengage from combat. Right now it is almost impossible to run away from a fight going south.
This fight is pretty hard, true. I got there a little bit early with I believe level 3, and it took me all my consumeables and every spell I had to win this fight.

I mean, it's fair that it's this hard, since this is where you can start travelling around the world, and I assume an alternative end to act 1. Could use some heads-up though, if you are not prepared and haven't saved in a while, you probably won't beat it and lose your progress.
The fight is really tough to get though without cheese mechanics at lv 3. The first round is tough to go without losing 3 guys. Even though they are advertised as lv 4-5 they have many bonus actions which would suggest they are in fact higher lv. It is doable with conversation alone but you miss out on "story stuff" if you go convo route.

I managed at level 3 ranger beast master after a few tries with the same setup as OP but it was 5-6 tries and used every defensive spell I could just to live though round one. After that many of their 3 action combos were reduced to 2 making it much more tit for tat combat. Didn't hide any of my guys or do anything you wouldn't normally do in that situation as a "first encounter". I was lucky as well as I managed to cause fear on a first hit removing one from the fight right off. Not going to lie, felt pretty good once they bit the dust and could very well have taken more tries at lv 3.
I saw a player trivilize all encounters by memorizing where they spawn and the ambushes [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X36huiZHrSM&ab_channel=sintee], this is just not good design.

I dont mind if you get an advantage by scouting beforehand, but the advantage shouldn't be this massive that you are one shotting mobs left and right, two turning encounter - its exactly the DOS2 feel that makes me nauseous. It kills replayability and any form of alternative strategies/approaches.
I killed them twice without the use of barrels. Speed potion on Lae'zel and invisibility on your mage does the trick usually.

Gonna try to solo them with a mage soon actually, only with spells. Will tell you later how it went.
I did the fight twice (at level 4), both times without wiping.

The 1st time I went into it blind with PC lock, laezel, shadowheart and gale.
All party members were downstairs and I basically got jumped on. But I managed to win. Shadowheart being able to res with healing word as a bonus action was a major help and so was Laezel using menacing strike and a speed potion.

The 2nd time, I knew what was coming so I kept my party (PC dex Ranger, Astarion and Wyll) hiding, while I sent Laezel on her own to initiate dialogue and combat. It was an easier fight as I could a free shot in with all my other companions which basically removed one of the Gith out of combat. Moreover having the guys upstairs allowed me to shove on of the Gith of the construction for some extra damage. Once again menacing strike and speed potions are amazing in this combat. You can get up to 3 menacing strikes and thus chances to frighten some in the 1st round with action surge. Laezel is tanky enough to get them off.

The fight belongs to the more difficult fights of EA, but is far from impossible nor does it require cheese of meta knowledge. I assume the fight is intended to do at the end of 1st act so being level 4 (or even 5) is not unexpected.

And iirc, there is a thiefling who warns you of the Gith and recommends you of staying away from them. So there is some form of warning.
The encounter is not impossible. Challenging, yes - impossible - not by a long shot. You want a hard encounter? Let me introduce you to a certain hag...

Also for the Gith encounter, it (like many encounters) depends on your level as well.

@Larian please don't nerf challenge. Difficulty slider, yes... nerfing challenging encounters - no.
I feel like the point is being missed. It doesn't matter if there are warnings. There a million times in a game where players are warned against doing things- even staying alive (Fuck you, Nettie). There are multiple fights that are above the level and capability of players at there level with their current armor and weapons. It isn't fun. If you have to have the right party, be in the right place, and get the right rolls to survive the first round it's not a good fight. Also, it is in the game for us to encounter. Saying we should stay away from it seems like a silly things to say. Experience the game, but not that part!
Originally Posted by GoldenSphinx
I feel like the point is being missed. It doesn't matter if there are warnings. There a million times in a game where players are warned against doing things- even staying alive (Fuck you, Nettie). There are multiple fights that are above the level and capability of players at there level with their current armor and weapons. It isn't fun. If you have to have the right party, be in the right place, and get the right rolls to survive the first round it's not a good fight. Also, it is in the game for us to encounter. Saying we should stay away from it seems like a silly things to say. Experience the game, but not that part!


Don't just assume everyone agrees with you. Because I for one - do not. I like challenging fights that force me to come up with different approaches.
Originally Posted by GoldenSphinx
I feel like the point is being missed. It doesn't matter if there are warnings. There a million times in a game where players are warned against doing things- even staying alive (Fuck you, Nettie). There are multiple fights that are above the level and capability of players at there level with their current armor and weapons. It isn't fun. If you have to have the right party, be in the right place, and get the right rolls to survive the first round it's not a good fight. Also, it is in the game for us to encounter. Saying we should stay away from it seems like a silly things to say. Experience the game, but not that part!


Combat is intended for characters on level 5, once you reach this level the fight will be ridiculously easy.
Originally Posted by GoldenSphinx
I feel like the point is being missed. It doesn't matter if there are warnings. There a million times in a game where players are warned against doing things- even staying alive (Fuck you, Nettie). There are multiple fights that are above the level and capability of players at there level with their current armor and weapons. It isn't fun. If you have to have the right party, be in the right place, and get the right rolls to survive the first round it's not a good fight. Also, it is in the game for us to encounter. Saying we should stay away from it seems like a silly things to say. Experience the game, but not that part!


Steamrolling or not having a challenge at all isn't fun for others either. I did 2 playthroughs of EA and while there were some difficult fights (which I enjoyed) none of them were impossible at the level I attempted them.

If you attempt the fight at a level where you are too low, it should be hard or even impossible without cheese but that doesn't mean it's bad game design. If they balance all fights in EA for a party of level 3 characters, I would be bored because the game showers you with XP. A fight with level 5 oppenents shouldn't be attempted with a party of level 3s.
Originally Posted by Rhobar121
Originally Posted by GoldenSphinx
I feel like the point is being missed. It doesn't matter if there are warnings. There a million times in a game where players are warned against doing things- even staying alive (Fuck you, Nettie). There are multiple fights that are above the level and capability of players at there level with their current armor and weapons. It isn't fun. If you have to have the right party, be in the right place, and get the right rolls to survive the first round it's not a good fight. Also, it is in the game for us to encounter. Saying we should stay away from it seems like a silly things to say. Experience the game, but not that part!


Combat is intended for characters on level 5, once you reach this level the fight will be ridiculously easy.


The levels are capped at four, currently.
Running into fights that are above your paygrade would be fine if you could... disengage from them. I know the githyanki specifically are a rough one to think we could escape from, but take the minotaurs in the underdark. I'd love the ability to stealth out of a difficult situation if I fucked up rather than reloading, even if it costs me a revive scroll or two.
Originally Posted by xxAres
Running into fights that are above your paygrade would be fine if you could... disengage from them. I know the githyanki specifically are a rough one to think we could escape from, but take the minotaurs in the underdark. I'd love the ability to stealth out of a difficult situation if I fucked up rather than reloading, even if it costs me a revive scroll or two.


Fun fact, the Githyanki's encounter is pretty easy to escape from because the Gith do no follow you outside the guard towers and after a while you get out of combat.
I don’t mind some fights that point out that you are in over your head in a particular area. BUT I do find that some Level-appropriate battles are just too grind-y and long, and if you die at the end of one because of some unlucky check it’s super annoying. If I have two hours to play I don’t want to spend 25% of that time on one battle. I’d rather see the availability of a difficulty setting so I can still enjoy the story and battles etc but not become frustrated with the slow progress, and potentially up the difficulty when I have more time to spend, etc.

Also, To Fisher who said the OP should “git gud”, the “git gud” thing is really tiresome, please stop. Why be condescending? Just do your thing and let others do theirs unjudged by you.
As a LONG time D&D player, I knew right away that Lae'zel was at best a naive newbie or at worst a liar. The Githyanki are a chaotic evil race who's leaders made a pact with TIAMAT to have red dragons to ride. When she said her people could help, I immediately knew it was going to be a lot of fighting, and I believe that when she says "purification" she thinks it means a cure, when it's more likely to be a fire or a blade. I thought that encounter was spot on. super arrogant leader who's insulting and immediately leaves when the fight is about to start. BTW, my dialogue choices did not lead to a fight, (after save scumming because they kicked my ass every time). Not sure if that's the best option though.
I agree op the stacked against us fights in this game is why i've stopped playing for now, the Phase spiders were my last straw tbh.. just insanity and broken beyond belief.
Originally Posted by Takolin
Originally Posted by GoldenSphinx
I feel like the point is being missed. It doesn't matter if there are warnings. There a million times in a game where players are warned against doing things- even staying alive (Fuck you, Nettie). There are multiple fights that are above the level and capability of players at there level with their current armor and weapons. It isn't fun. If you have to have the right party, be in the right place, and get the right rolls to survive the first round it's not a good fight. Also, it is in the game for us to encounter. Saying we should stay away from it seems like a silly things to say. Experience the game, but not that part!


Steamrolling or not having a challenge at all isn't fun for others either. I did 2 playthroughs of EA and while there were some difficult fights (which I enjoyed) none of them were impossible at the level I attempted them.

If you attempt the fight at a level where you are too low, it should be hard or even impossible without cheese but that doesn't mean it's bad game design. If they balance all fights in EA for a party of level 3 characters, I would be bored because the game showers you with XP. A fight with level 5 oppenents shouldn't be attempted with a party of level 3s.


Disagree, i'm here for fun and a story, not to have my ass handed to me every battle.
Originally Posted by DanteYoda


Disagree, i'm here for fun and a story, not to have my ass handed to me every battle.


Well lets hope for multiple difficulty options then, rather than just 1 when the game gets its final release.

But as I said before, I only encountered a few difficult battles, most of them were easy enough and I don't cheese nor do I abuse rest.
To be fair good difficulty design helps immersion in the story - i expect a small goblin camp to be obliterated by my wizard and a long tough fight against a Dragon - it makes sense.

But currently the problem with difficulty is that it makes no sense.
Originally Posted by Kokonut
Hi there
I really enjoy this game so far, there is only one thing that I don't like:

Since when we met, Laezel keeps telling me how important it is to find her friends which are the only ones who can help us getting rid of the tadpole. So I did my best, try to ignore all the other weird stuff going on and head on to the place where the Githyanki patrol was.
I thought that since I got one of them with me, they should have some trust in me and at least do not try to kill me immediately. However, I was wrong. Suddenly about 5 heavy armed Githyanki warriors attacked me, all level 5. There was no chance in the fight, it was a massacre (my party was level 3, me (Ranger), Laezel, Shadowheart and Gale. So I reloaded and tried other dialog options, but all of them lead to the green skinned guys attacking me and a total party kill.

This is no fun. There were absolutly no signs that this will happen, and that those guys are so strong. Of course the fight IS somehow winnable, either you have A LOT of luck or you use some cheese mechanics, but it kill immersion and I always feel bad when I start cheesing.
I had to load an earlier save and start to go to the Goblin camp, which I didn't want to and does not fit the personality of my character (he's a bounty hunter who always searches for the easiest, fastest solution of things, and due to laezel who seems trustworthy the Githyanki way is the best to get rid of the brain worms).

Stuff like this forces me to play the game not like I want, but like the game wants to be played.

I hope this will change after EA. Just give some more hints that those Gith will not be that nice as expected and rescuing the druid may even be the easier way to go.

English is not my native language so sorry for some mistakes in the writing.







if you end up fighting them you did the wrong choice in the conversation and/or failed your roll check.
maybe you did not notice but Lae does not want to fight the dragon rider
nor should you. "Story wise". I mean gosh they have a red dragon you are lvl 2-4. you should talk your way out , or die. imo the fight should be impossible. like in, you die it was a trap, in like, GAME OVER, like that FFist patrol. the only way out is with your tongue :P

reach the spot again, but then save your game, cast guidance on lae, and go try those persuasion and deception rolls. and reveal the truth about the gith patrol.

playing as a gith and/or having the artefact on you while doing the talking, also brings up interesting conversation twists
Yes it is one of the harder fights. And that shouldn't have been a surprise. In addition to all the story elements you have to go past some tough Gnoll areas to get there and its at the far edge of the map.

There are multiple ways to resolve the encounter peacefully. And if you blunder into it and get killed . . . then try the peaceful solution or leave and come back later. I really don't see the problem. And the dialogue checks are not hard (especially when you buff Lae'zel . . . always buff characters before checks!)
The thing about these very rule-heavy, highly tactical RPGs is that there is a very wide range of possible perceived difficulty, even on a single difficulty setting. I've watched a bunch of people play this who know nothing of D&D, and are not used to playing turn-based, party-based RPGs like this, and they really struggle a lot. Often they say that the game is too hard, or ask "How can I possibly beat this?" Then you have people who have tons of experience with D&D and this type of CRPG, and some of those people say, quite honestly, that everything in the game was easy for them. It's a very tricky kind of game to balance across these highly variant audiences. Fortunately, we know Larian will be giving us multiple difficulty settings to choose from, hopefully sooner rather than later. So that should alleviate most of this problem, I think.
Originally Posted by trengilly
Yes it is one of the harder fights. And that shouldn't have been a surprise. In addition to all the story elements you have to go past some tough Gnoll areas to get there and its at the far edge of the map.

There are multiple ways to resolve the encounter peacefully. And if you blunder into it and get killed . . . then try the peaceful solution or leave and come back later. I really don't see the problem. And the dialogue checks are not hard (especially when you buff Lae'zel . . . always buff characters before checks!)


The problem is that blundering into it makes more RP sense than going in prepared. Going in prepared and prepositioned makes the fight quite winnable, but if I think I'm actually going to get into a fight with that many githyanki and a freakin' red dragon, I'm not going down there at all.
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
The thing about these very rule-heavy, highly tactical RPGs is that there is a very wide range of possible perceived difficulty, even on a single difficulty setting. I've watched a bunch of people play this who know nothing of D&D, and are not used to playing turn-based, party-based RPGs like this, and they really struggle a lot. Often they say that the game is too hard, or ask "How can I possibly beat this?" Then you have people who have tons of experience with D&D and this type of CRPG, and some of those people say, quite honestly, that everything in the game was easy for them. It's a very tricky kind of game to balance across these highly variant audiences. Fortunately, we know Larian will be giving us multiple difficulty settings to choose from, hopefully sooner rather than later. So that should alleviate most of this problem, I think.


Every studio should introduce a title as though to someone who is playing a video game for the first time. One never knows which game will be someone's introduction to the medium or genre. Tutorials are passe sadly, but the first Baldur's Gate offered a very welcoming introduction in Candlekeep, the only point of quests like finding the lost book, fetching the watchman's sword, or getting an antidote for the sick cow were to give the player familiarity with the environment and the types of objects they could interact with, from opening chests to books, from buying things like arrows for the soldier, to spells for the traveling mage. The initial combat clearing the cellar rats or leading a squad to victory against illusions equipped those whom had never heard of Dungeons and Dragons before with everything they needed to confidently continue into a mostly unforgiving game where one could be killed instantly by some enemies before combat had even properly started, or turned to stone for getting too close.

I am really hopeful Larian will launch the final game with a brief tutorial like scenario set in Baldur's Gate set prior to the abduction which will go over these elements and ad some much needed depth to player made characters
I assume there will be much better tutorializing in the final game.
Originally Posted by DanteYoda
I agree op the stacked against us fights in this game is why i've stopped playing for now, the Phase spiders were my last straw tbh.. just insanity and broken beyond belief.
Originally Posted by Takolin
Originally Posted by GoldenSphinx
I feel like the point is being missed. It doesn't matter if there are warnings. There a million times in a game where players are warned against doing things- even staying alive (Fuck you, Nettie). There are multiple fights that are above the level and capability of players at there level with their current armor and weapons. It isn't fun. If you have to have the right party, be in the right place, and get the right rolls to survive the first round it's not a good fight. Also, it is in the game for us to encounter. Saying we should stay away from it seems like a silly things to say. Experience the game, but not that part!


Steamrolling or not having a challenge at all isn't fun for others either. I did 2 playthroughs of EA and while there were some difficult fights (which I enjoyed) none of them were impossible at the level I attempted them.

If you attempt the fight at a level where you are too low, it should be hard or even impossible without cheese but that doesn't mean it's bad game design. If they balance all fights in EA for a party of level 3 characters, I would be bored because the game showers you with XP. A fight with level 5 oppenents shouldn't be attempted with a party of level 3s.


Disagree, i'm here for fun and a story, not to have my ass handed to me every battle.


Probably there will be a "Story Mode" difficulty when the game releases, you will be fine.
Originally Posted by Cyka
To be fair good difficulty design helps immersion in the story - i expect a small goblin camp to be obliterated by my wizard and a long tough fight against a Dragon - it makes sense.

But currently the problem with difficulty is that it makes no sense.


Not your PARTY... your WIZARD.... is this why a bunch of people is crying rivers of bloody tears because they want wizards to get better spells, opponents to have less hp and martials to be worse?
The fight is winnable even if you don't know you are about to have it (no positioning or stealth).
It is hard tho, really hard. I beat it the first time but with 2 dead characters and all my resources depleted.
Indeed almost all fights are winnable ig you are willing to embrace the cheese/strategy elements. Always get highground, always use stealth always knock things down holes, (especially big critters like the spider matriarch), summon the ogres if it gets too bad.
For the folks that are giving feedback to the OP regarding varied tactics, scouting, coming back later, gaining high ground, etc. - kudos. It's meant to be a difficult encounter and preparation goes a long way.

That said: to the folks saying "hey, they're Gith" or "there's a red dragon, what do you expect?!" - you're not contributing to the conversation in the slightest. You're relying on familiarity on out-of-character knowledge in the form of externally published source material to guide you through a dangerous encounter. If I were a DM, there would be penalties.

If the discussion genesis were so blatantly obvious, I sincerely doubt there would be posts about it; who makes good-faith complaints about the sky being blue or water being wet? If it were so clear, it wouldn't be raised. Knocking players on those points is not disagreement over opinions on whether the fight should be hard, it presumes everyone starts from the same place, which isn't what gaming or DnD are even about.
N.b - it is likely that the caps will be removed entirely after EA. I'd fully expect this to be the Alice Alicseon or Djinn fight of the area within BG3. Early Access has different caps for varying reasons (one might be to see how folks approach above-level encounters), so wouldn't presume this is final state smile
Personally, I do hope that after more of the game becomes available to play, that some of these earlier (and entirely too diffcult) encounters get balanced downwards. The Githyanki patrol is not the only instance where you get slaughtered by foes that are too overpowered for when you naturally run into them just playing through the story.

If Larian wants me to sneak my way through the game, always scouting ahead to only then just blow everyone up, fine. But triple the amount of oil barrels available and replace all of the random food that one typically finds all over the map with healing potions and scrolls of revival.

In Dragon Age: Origins there was really tough high dragon fight fairly early in the game (the quest with the cultists) where that beast could pretty much wipe out your party in short order, but often due to the amount of healing elixirs and dog bones that I had amassed by that point, I never had any problems killing it on hard settings by keeping myself (as any class) alive with healing potions and using my Dog as a tank by continuously feeding him bones. It would take a while, but very doable. This game needs a bit of that kind of love!
With an increased party size, most very hard combats would be more managable (and combats VS trash will still be combats VS trash... It's just gonna be faster).

The combats against Gythianky is hard because they have an OP mobility and because they nearly all focus characters that are upon the door.

This is a very strange (and unpleasant according to me) demonstration of combats in BG3.
Easy Highground advantage + OP mobility, useless melee characters, AI's target choices,...
Originally Posted by Tulkash01
Ahem... did you notice that Lae'zel is actually an evil zealot and when she talks about "purification" everyone feels unconfortable? She also knows less than she think she does and assumes things that are not actually true. As for your "problem", in RPGs some areas/encounters are more difficult than others and you should not expect to be able to win every fight because you just want to do so. The fight with the Gityanki is quite challenging if you try to take them when you are level 2 (not impossible if you know how to place yourself and how to use explosives). It becomes quite easy when you get to level 4.

Suggesting the game should scale down difficulty of encounters based on what you want to do, so you have an easy time suceeding (because that's fun in your opinion) is just not what this game needs imo.

The game doesn't need to scale down the difficulty of encounters, but it shouldn't be trying to railroad you into a fight like that. A lot of this game is "easy" if you cheese things, like explosive stacking, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a flaw in the presentation of story for you to get pressured into this Gith fight which will destroy you if you're not already prepared for it. Seriously, the way it's presented, most people are strongly encouraged to listen to Lae'zel. She's featured prominently on the artwork, she's the only other character you cooperate with on the Nautiloid, she's knowledgeable about this problem you all have and she's constantly hounding you to go find the creche. Then other companions even back her up at some points, saying things like you can't afford to not try it or you've exhausted other options, etc., you just get so much pressure to go find this Gith patrol it practically railroads you into it and it does so early.
The fight was one of the last ones in my play through. I was lv4 and walked in there as a group. I had to fight and I won without cheese. Only Gale went down twice, enemies really like him.
Enemies like to go up, just cast or attack, then shove them down. If they survive they will come up again so you can repeat. Enemies are dumb. The invisible guy did not do AoO or special attacks, another one cast silence, I just walk out of it and cast.
The fight is fine and it is absolutely possible to win without cheese.

There are many warnings that this can get hard, like the scout on the bridge, the red dragon and how they deal with the flaming fist.
The game is fine and it is good to have some more difficult encounters sometimes. Plus this fight is totally optional, you do not need to kill them to get to the next chapter.
But you get very useful stuff from them.
Originally Posted by Madscientist
The fight was one of the last ones in my play through. I was lv4 and walked in there as a group. I had to fight and I won without cheese. Only Gale went down twice, enemies really like him.
Enemies like to go up, just cast or attack, then shove them down. If they survive they will come up again so you can repeat. Enemies are dumb. The invisible guy did not do AoO or special attacks, another one cast silence, I just walk out of it and cast.
The fight is fine and it is absolutely possible to win without cheese.

There are many warnings that this can get hard, like the scout on the bridge, the red dragon and how they deal with the flaming fist.
The game is fine and it is good to have some more difficult encounters sometimes. Plus this fight is totally optional, you do not need to kill them to get to the next chapter.
But you get very useful stuff from them.

I think you ignored the actual problem as stated, which is the game is set up to strongly encourage you to do this fight before you'd be ready. They need to either have Lae'zel back off a bit with this shit or have her come in after you get more chances to level.
Some fights are indeed readable to be bad situations. Such as most of the gobbo base encounters if you play yourself in a bad situation. Like walking right into the throne room and having a 4(or 5 with Halsin) vs 10 gobbos with Raz. Or like walking out of the base with the whole party of gobbos waiting to shoot you in the face. These are very obvious bad situation signs.

But yes the phase spiders and the gith knights battle is a complete off shoot that will require you to be just right for the situation, really really lucky, or be good at barrelmancery and cheese tactics.

So yes game needs to work on its region level guiding and locking. You shouldn't be able to proceed to certain areas so casually.
Originally Posted by Kokonut
but it kill immersion and I always feel bad when I start cheesing

Remembers me of Darksouls PvP.

You want to be stylish and honorable.
And then you need to disconnect because of the pieces of shit invading your world.
From 10 fights, maybe one and a half guys are decent.
The rest is trash and does not deserve to be allowed in my world.


But in a game with AI as my enemy?
"Cheesing" is my middle name.
Or rather cheesing does not even exist.

Why do I have to fight in a way allowing an encounter to make the most of it's strenght?
Especially when my drool is all over that one extra Githyanki armor?
That breathing corpse attached to it should be removed from it as soon as possible.
That fight was definitely not appropriate for this level - especially since they were getting three attacks per go. On level 4, without cheating, I barely survived and that was only because I was able to take out enough of them early on and the remainders kept focusing on rekilling my custom character after Shadowheart downed her - and Laezel happened to have mistystep that allowed her to barely kill the stragglers. Then I had the issue with Gale killing us all with his dead body and we couldn't actually take the pouch from his heart.
You can see them from far away, they have a dragon and they are lv 5. You do not need to be a genius to find out that it is a bad idea to engage them with a lv3 char with bad equipment.

In the final game it will be possible to be lv5 at this point. Then you get a second attack or lv3 spells.
Then it will be relatively easy.

It is GOOD that you can run into things that are too hard for you. This way you can feel really good when you come back later and beat them.

PS: In BG1+2 you could also run into encounters that are too hard for you.
Just a reminder for those who complain that this game is too easy and too different from BG1+2.
Originally Posted by Madscientist
You can see them from far away, they have a dragon and they are lv 5. You do not need to be a genius to find out that it is a bad idea to engage them with a lv3 char with bad equipment.

In the final game it will be possible to be lv5 at this point. Then you get a second attack or lv3 spells.
Then it will be relatively easy.

It is GOOD that you can run into things that are too hard for you. This way you can feel really good when you come back later and beat them.

PS: In BG1+2 you could also run into encounters that are too hard for you.
Just a reminder for those who complain that this game is too easy and too different from BG1+2.

It's not the encounter itself so much as the way the game leads you right into it. You're coming at it from the perspective of a seasoned player who understands the world and lore of Faerun, I'm thinking of somebody whose first encounter with the universe is this game who has no experience at all. That's not to say that the entire game should cater to them, but the narrative clearly leads you right into that fight when you're not ready for it.
And they don't present them as a possibly threat. Laezel the whole time is like, "yo those are my peeps, we're solid" and then poof, possible blind side ass kicking. Maybe if Larian can add more companion lines to chime in and be like "hey maybe we should play ball, because they look like they'll kick out teeth in".

You are right tho, a big scary red dragon does kind of give you a hint hint. But when the player approaches the scene, it's not at all consider a threating situation to you and your group. Larian had several instances of this too in DoS2. Just casual patches that could lead you to an ass kicking and forcing players to have to reload and reconsider their patches ways.

I think in Witcher, their are some good examples of this in where if you choose a bad dialog option. You don't fight the doomed fight, you just out right get a cutscene and die. I would much like that more then getting pitted in nearly impossible fights. I dont want to feel lucky in a impossible fight, I want to feel tested.
Originally Posted by YT-Yangbang
But yes the phase spiders and the gith knights battle is a complete off shoot that will require you to be just right for the situation, really really lucky, or be good at barrelmancery and cheese tactics.

Ironic how you left out 'or just being good and knowing your class and what it can do'.....
Why oh why do most always resort to the lame tired excuse of 'lucky,' or 'good at barrelmancy' or 'using cheese tactics and exploits'......?

Yeah, whatever...funny how some are wrecking those encounters with a single lone character....with no problems?
Example: --->https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhXDwcSYLWY&t=33s<--

Go figure, huh?
Originally Posted by bullse
Originally Posted by YT-Yangbang
But yes the phase spiders and the gith knights battle is a complete off shoot that will require you to be just right for the situation, really really lucky, or be good at barrelmancery and cheese tactics.

Ironic how you left out 'or just being good and knowing your class and what it can do'.....
Why oh why do most always resort to the lame tired excuse of 'lucky,' or 'good at barrelmancy' or 'using cheese tactics and exploits'......?

Yeah, whatever...funny how some are wrecking those encounters with a single lone character....with no problems?
Example: --->https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhXDwcSYLWY&t=33s<--

Go figure, huh?

Thanks for the perfect example how Larian messed up the combat system. The crazy Larian grenades and weapon abilities are barrelmancy too, not to mention how they litter the world with higher level items.
Originally Posted by Ixal
Thanks for the perfect example how Larian messed up the combat system. Dipping and the crazy Larian grenades are barrelmancy too

And I can see that you utterly fail at viewing a simple video which should none of what you described, simply a player knowing his class, utilizing the items obtained in the game and WRECKING the Gith patrol, in ONE turn.
Hmm, learn to play maybe?
Originally Posted by bullse
Originally Posted by Ixal
Thanks for the perfect example how Larian messed up the combat system. Dipping and the crazy Larian grenades are barrelmancy too

And I can see that you utterly fail at viewing a simple video which should none of what you described, simply a player knowing his class, utilizing the items obtained in the game and WRECKING the Gith patrol, in ONE turn.
Hmm, learn to play maybe?

Items which so do not exist in D&D and are only there because Larian has no idea about D&D combat (Sword with Cleave) -> Barrelmancy. As are their grenades.
The Wyvern Poison is 1250 gold and should not be available at that lever, but again Larian fails.

Would be good if you managed to read some rules first (or let someone read them to you if you need) before pretending to know whats going on.
Get
Good.
Originally Posted by bullse
Get
Good.
And we have reached the end of your vocabulary....
Originally Posted by Bergtau
It's not the encounter itself so much as the way the game leads you right into it. You're coming at it from the perspective of a seasoned player who understands the world and lore of Faerun, I'm thinking of somebody whose first encounter with the universe is this game who has no experience at all. That's not to say that the entire game should cater to them, but the narrative clearly leads you right into that fight when you're not ready for it.


OH MY GOD WHO CARES REALLY?!

This is not really a " Buu huu huu I couldn't win ONE FIGHT even though I really, really wanted to " is it?
I do not even remember what level my group had the first time I walked up to this Gith bastards.
Mostly I remember how much I did not wanted to approach at all because the Dragons stats induced a fear effect all by itself. grin

I also remember that I first-tried this son's of bitches also.
Without barrels even. Maybe I got lucky, I dunno.


Yeah this battle is much harder as all the others at least on the surface.
But that is okay - because the Gith, as wretched as they are, are supposed to be Elite fighters.
They are trained like Spartans from an early age on, they have very good technology and gear and they respect nothing but constant vigilance.


There are other crushing encounters out there.

° Minotaur WWF wrestler!
° The ambush-Beholder
° The Landshark too can hit quite hard


And there are also so many fights that can be won even with the worst start-up of all.
So what is even the deal with ONE TOUGH FIGHT?
Please let the Giths be a tough battle.

Feels only that much more rewarding to crush them for it.
Originally Posted by bullse
Originally Posted by Ixal
Thanks for the perfect example how Larian messed up the combat system. Dipping and the crazy Larian grenades are barrelmancy too

And I can see that you utterly fail at viewing a simple video which should none of what you described, simply a player knowing his class, utilizing the items obtained in the game and WRECKING the Gith patrol, in ONE turn.
Hmm, learn to play maybe?
Lol that was the most cheese video I've ever seen in my life! That is the most solid video of someone who has save scummed that fight to record their perfect fight!

The whole point of this thread was that the game casually leads you to battles that will kick your ass. Getting gud is not stacking all the odds in your favor for an ambush, on an event that you don't know will result on an ambush. The player in the video knows exactly everything that goes down and just played to ambush a story event of the game. Of course if you plan it all out like that, you will have the advantage. But who in all the ever first playthroughs of this game has thought. "Oh its those gith dudes Laezel has been looking to talk to...better stack my shit up and ambush them".

Seriously dude you proved our point.
Originally Posted by Bergtau
I think you ignored the actual problem as stated, which is the game is set up to strongly encourage you to do this fight before you'd be ready. They need to either have Lae'zel back off a bit with this shit or have her come in after you get more chances to level.
I never recall single situation when Lae'zel encourages you to fight them ... can you remind me?

There is a lot of signs that talking to them may not be exactly the best idea ... if you choose to ignore them, that is up to you. :-/ Aswell as bring whole your party with you, instead of prepare some backup "just in case" ...
And one more thing, for charisma based characters its quite easy even on level 3 (and since there is no stat-incerasing before level 4 ... therefore even on level 1) to talk out of this situation, if you try at least a bit.

But there certainly is at least one thing that Larian certainly should concider about this encounter ...
And its autosave right after dragon arives, just before Lae'zel leaves you. laugh
For me the Problem is that the game tells me I must go to that creche AS SOON AS POSSIBLE which basically means skip all sidequests and go there as fast as I can. Why should my character care about some Tieflings and Goblins etc. when he needs to remove that dangerous tadpole as soon as he can?
Why shouldn't he believe Laezel which has always spoken the thruth and seems to know best about mind flayers?
It just kills immersion when I am doing some nice chatting at the druid grove, listening to bards, exploring old ruins etc. while the game tells me every second counts if I won't be turned into a tentacle monster.
Please dont dumb down the game for people who can't challenge themselves and use their brain power to solve problems.
I kinda cannot recal single thing that game tells you dont need to do as soon as possible. laugh
Adventurers have a tense life.
Originally Posted by Labayu
Occasionally running into fights which aren't winnable at your current level is fun, but I'm sure there will be adjustable difficultly levels for those who disagree.


How is running into fights that aren't winnable no matter what you do fun? Like with the Matriarch spiders for example with there HP they are equal to a 12th level fighter and we're cut off at 4th level
Originally Posted by gametester1
Please dont dumb down the game for people who can't challenge themselves and use their brain power to solve problems.


Let me guess you were able to kill the two matriarchs in the one area to get the amethyst? The two that have over 100 hp each not counting all the other spiders
Originally Posted by DragonMaster69
How is running into fights that aren't winnable no matter what
That is the thing ...
There isnt such fight in game curently ... yes some are tough, and yes some require player to use head differently than smash your oponent with it ... but every SITUATION is solveable, even if that mean simply walk away and return later. :P
Originally Posted by VeronicaTash
That fight was definitely not appropriate for this level - especially since they were getting three attacks per go. On level 4, without cheating, I barely survived and that was only because I was able to take out enough of them early on and the remainders kept focusing on rekilling my custom character after Shadowheart downed her - and Laezel happened to have mistystep that allowed her to barely kill the stragglers. Then I had the issue with Gale killing us all with his dead body and we couldn't actually take the pouch from his heart.



I had to re-do that battle several times and we still got our arses handed to us on a platinum platter. Couldn't figure out how they were getting multiple attacks each to our one attack each. And what really got me is how they were connecting and killing Shadowheart who has a 19 AC and used shield of Faith which is +2 AC for a total of 21 and they were killing her as if she had nothing on? They couldn't have been that lucky to kill her like that there and they didn't even have + weapons.
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by DragonMaster69
How is running into fights that aren't winnable no matter what
That is the thing ...
There isnt such fight in game curently ... yes some are tough, and yes some require player to use head differently than smash your oponent with it ... but every SITUATION is solveable, even if that mean simply walk away and return later. :P

Well, let's see the Matriarch spiders killed 4th level Shadowheart with a 21 ac in 2 hits how is that there even possible? After all they don't even have + weapons and believe me I tried everything including oil barrels and fire
Originally Posted by DragonMaster69
Originally Posted by Labayu
Occasionally running into fights which aren't winnable at your current level is fun, but I'm sure there will be adjustable difficultly levels for those who disagree.


How is running into fights that aren't winnable no matter what you do fun? Like with the Matriarch spiders for example with there HP they are equal to a 12th level fighter and we're cut off at 4th level
Because as you can see, no one else here is having those problems. Ive played several play throughs, if I ever had an issue I learned from it and applied my knowledge to try a better route or solution. Its called playing a game. I dont expect games to hold my hand I expect them to challenge me. There are multiple routes you can take the game, it does not force you to go in one direction. Just because you chose to follow that route doesnt make it a problem with the design. If anything they should increase the difficulty in this game. It holds your hand and practically begs you to exploit it.
Originally Posted by DragonMaster69
Originally Posted by gametester1
Please dont dumb down the game for people who can't challenge themselves and use their brain power to solve problems.


Let me guess you were able to kill the two matriarchs in the one area to get the amethyst? The two that have over 100 hp each not counting all the other spiders

The first time I fought the spider, It was very difficult and time consuming and I won.

The second time I played against the spider I knew what to look out for and I examined the creature prior and took notes and prepared properly for battle. It sounds like you arent preparing properly and expecting to win battles based on superior leveling. This isnt skyrim. You have to properly prep and use different weapons based on the enemies resistances, use candles to light your weapons on fire, bless your party, save and use scrolls for buffs so they dont take from your spell slots, cast any buffs that are not concentration required or that can be recharged with a short rest, armor buff the caster who blessed your party or who used any concentration spells, short rest after buffsx, split up your party members and take multiple routes, drink poison resistance potions, remember to light up the enemies for better vision or cast vision buffs on your party members, and surprise attack while other party members are all hidden and separate from eachother. Then use each to join the fight one by one for their own initiative and first attack. These are all just options you can take to get better advantage towards an enemy before you fight them and you don't have to use all of them to win.

This isnt hack and slash. You should spend time learning how to get better and not try to change the game to suit a lazy playstyle. If you dont like playing methodical and using strategy to win difficult battles then its probably a deal breaker and this isnt the game for you.
You can get unlucky and fall on the spider queen without noticing her first.

My first time, I was level 2 (!), and was on a spider "bridge" in a dead-end : the mama spider destroyed us hard !
I will not pretend it was fun.

The 2nd (MP) and 3rd time (SP), I took my time more, and it was fun.
Originally Posted by DragonMaster69
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by DragonMaster69
How is running into fights that aren't winnable no matter what
That is the thing ...
There isnt such fight in game curently ... yes some are tough, and yes some require player to use head differently than smash your oponent with it ... but every SITUATION is solveable, even if that mean simply walk away and return later. :P
Well, let's see the Matriarch spiders killed 4th level Shadowheart with a 21 ac in 2 hits how is that there even possible? After all they don't even have + weapons and believe me I tried everything including oil barrels and fire
Yes, it is possible ... sometimes there are casualities, usualy either if you do some misstake, or if you came to fight unprepared ... but Shadowhearth downed dont mean "no way to win no matter what you do". :-/
The spider matriarch fight is one of my favourite in the game so far. Don't get me wrong, it's not easy, she usually downs at least one character before I finish her off, but you can drop most of her health from shooting the webs out from under her and killing her with fall damage (at least now that they've fixed the 'crash every time I damage a web' issue...). It's a challenge for sure, but that's the fun of it for me. As for their lack of +weapons, they will have natural +s to various attacks. It is possible for them to take down someone even with a high AC.
The Gith fight was a massacre the first time I got into it. Now as far as I'm concerned the cutscene and massive red dragon were enough of a hint that this was probably going to be a bad time. I thought I'd try my hand at persuading them anyway, failed, and Lae'zel was down and out before I'd taken a breath. And then I laughed, took the L, reloaded and made better decisions the second time. Without fights like that I'd be bored.

That said, I'm sure the full release will have a variety of difficulty settings for people who just aren't into that, but as far as I'm concerned none of these fights are actually unwinnable. If you want the game to give you the freedom to play as you want, that also means having the freedom to make bad choices.
I don't think the game is too hard or should warn you more - I think Lae'zel really doesn't come off as smart or trustworthy. And if its just about the Gith fight - ok, you have a moment where you get your lecture in - "You are a nobody, there are more powerful things than you." I'm fine with that.


My issue though is that it doesn't play the way you would expect a D&D game to play. I finished pretty much every battle in the game, no barrelmancy at all (only enemies used them against me), no grenades at all (only enemies used them against me), but I did use stealth to pick the fights on my term. I did constantly shove people. Race to the top was a thing in the game. In short, it barely mattered who I was using, from heavy armored Lae'zel to my ranger they all constantly sneaked and attacked someone first. If there was a conversation, my party was split up, already in position (sneaking) to kill people I was talking to because the game expects this 'tactics' and is build around them. So yeah, many incounters can be trivial - minotaurs? Sneaky archer that they can't find. Also there is the invisible mage pushing a 1000 pound minotaur of the cliff. People are calling it plaiyng smart - and while I love tactics and strategy games and I can truely appreciate smart solutions this doesn't feel like playing a game, it does feel like abusing systems.

So I don't mind though encounters, but to me the combat gameplay, pretty much the same way I hated it in DOS2, is off. It has no flow, you either know the combat and its ridicolously easy or you don't know the encounter before you and likely you get your ass kicked. To me DOS2 and BG3 are games thriving in metagaming, but utterly lacking in the suposed gameplay as its presented to the user itself.
I had a lot of trouble with some of the fights and died a lot at first. But after I figured out, that you have to use your environment and even can throw oil barrels, it did got a lot easier. I didn't tackle the spider lady yet, because I'm not that fond of spiders and leave that for last, but I managed to kill the minotaurs first try, the duergar group, I found really hard and that Mykonid guy, that you have to kill, if you don't want to kill the Mykonid colony and the beholder .
I even feel confident enough to have a go at the bulette while in the Underdark.
Some of the fights are harder than they should be because we are capped at level 4. If you go in at level 5, none of the fights mentioned should be very difficult. Level 5 is a major level where classes get a major ability (ie level 3 spells, extra attack). Those abilities are game changers.

I stumbled into the Gith encounter my first time. Gale dropped twice and Shadowheart once but I made it out. I was level 4. My group was poorly positioned and surrounded.

But then I learned how this game altered combat so I got rid of Gale and everyone carries crossbows with special arrows along with jump and misty step spells or scrolls. There’s nothing right now currently I can’t destroy.
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
But then I learned how this game altered combat so I got rid of Gale and everyone carries crossbows with special arrows along with jump and misty step spells or scrolls. There’s nothing right now currently I can’t destroy.

THAT is my issue with the game. Not difficulty, but THAT. You ain't playing 5e no more, you are playing D&DOS. Even though I didn't use the same specific approach, but I definitely didn't use an approach based on D&D knowledge. Sure spells are from D&D, but they were just deco and fillers in between advantage, stealth-abuse, bonus-action-economy,...
Originally Posted by biomag
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
But then I learned how this game altered combat so I got rid of Gale and everyone carries crossbows with special arrows along with jump and misty step spells or scrolls. There’s nothing right now currently I can’t destroy.

THAT is my issue with the game. Not difficulty, but THAT. You ain't playing 5e no more, you are playing D&DOS. Even though I didn't use the same specific approach, but I definitely didn't use an approach based on D&D knowledge. Sure spells are from D&D, but they were just deco and fillers in between advantage, stealth-abuse, bonus-action-economy,...

It’s my issue as well but the people who love Larian will say otherwise.

That being said, it should be interesting to test a fighter at level 5. Extra attack with action surge. Fire off a fire, acid, ice, lightning arrow from my longbow. Tiamat got nothing on me.
Originally Posted by DragonMaster69
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by DragonMaster69
How is running into fights that aren't winnable no matter what
That is the thing ...
There isnt such fight in game curently ... yes some are tough, and yes some require player to use head differently than smash your oponent with it ... but every SITUATION is solveable, even if that mean simply walk away and return later. :P

Well, let's see the Matriarch spiders killed 4th level Shadowheart with a 21 ac in 2 hits how is that there even possible? After all they don't even have + weapons and believe me I tried everything including oil barrels and fire

This game is ridiculously cheeseable. I feel like if you're willing to spend enough time on a fight, there's nothing that can't be beaten. I decided to see what the minimum I could beat the phase spiders with. I snuck to the Whispering Depths waypoint with level 2 Astarion. Then I sent in just level 2 Lae'zel. I hid behind the column near the waypoint, and repeatedly cast Githyanki Psyonics:Mage Hand. I hid after casting it each time. It starts off invisible, and not in combat, so you can put it in whatever advantageous position you want before taking action. You usually get surprise, so you get two shoves and a throw before the mage hand is killed. You can throw spiderlings, you have a 45% chance to shove spiders, and a 10% chance to shove the matriarch. You can throw spiderlings into the web that the matriarch stands on, each time you cause the matriarch to fall it causes 25% damage. I killed every spider and spiderling in that area within 90 minutes, and had the Matriarch down to 46 hp before I sent in the rest of my characters to finish it off .
Originally Posted by xnihil0zer0
Originally Posted by DragonMaster69
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by DragonMaster69
How is running into fights that aren't winnable no matter what
That is the thing ...
There isnt such fight in game curently ... yes some are tough, and yes some require player to use head differently than smash your oponent with it ... but every SITUATION is solveable, even if that mean simply walk away and return later. :P

Well, let's see the Matriarch spiders killed 4th level Shadowheart with a 21 ac in 2 hits how is that there even possible? After all they don't even have + weapons and believe me I tried everything including oil barrels and fire

This game is ridiculously cheeseable. I feel like if you're willing to spend enough time on a fight, there's nothing that can't be beaten. I decided to see what the minimum I could beat the phase spiders with. I snuck to the Whispering Depths waypoint with level 2 Astarion. Then I sent in just level 2 Lae'zel. I hid behind the column near the waypoint, and repeatedly cast Githyanki Psyonics:Mage Hand. I hid after casting it each time. It starts off invisible, and not in combat, so you can put it in whatever advantageous position you want before taking action. You usually get surprise, so you get two shoves and a throw before the mage hand is killed. You can throw spiderlings, you have a 45% chance to shove spiders, and a 10% chance to shove the matriarch. You can throw spiderlings into the web that the matriarch stands on, each time you cause the matriarch to fall it causes 25% damage. I killed every spider and spiderling in that area within 90 minutes, and had the Matriarch down to 46 hp before I sent in the rest of my characters to finish it off .

Off topic, but you can one shot the spider queen by shoving her into the underdark. Shoving from stealth or invisibility has 100% success chance. I did it by accident during the fight so I do not know if it works from her initial position. Shoving her from the pillar into the hole in the ground did 205 damage and I found her corpse in the underdark.
I guess its known, but a perfect display of what the game's difficulty issues are


Sounds fun at first, but again this turns the game into a 'goat-fight' (whoever here came up with that term - cudos to you, perfect summary of the mechanics). Classes are meanlingless. Skills are meaningless. Just be invisible and shove the enemies of the cliff with 100% chance.
lol I didn't even know Minotaurs were bosses? I thought it was just mobs, unlike the spider. if you do not drive the spider into the web (for which you at least need to think of this) she will most likely kill you all, this is really the boss and the first passage took me a long time. you have to learn something before you can use it. and before that, you can die 1000 times. and this is at a normal level of difficulty, in the future you will be able to choose the desired difficulty for your game. I don't see that as a problem.

also I think that the invisibility feature will be changed.
Originally Posted by Madscientist
Off topic, but you can one shot the spider queen by shoving her into the underdark. Shoving from stealth or invisibility has 100% success chance. I did it by accident during the fight so I do not know if it works from her initial position. Shoving her from the pillar into the hole in the ground did 205 damage and I found her corpse in the underdark.

Originally Posted by biomag
I guess its known, but a perfect display of what the game's difficulty issues are


Sounds fun at first, but again this turns the game into a 'goat-fight' (whoever here came up with that term - cudos to you, perfect summary of the mechanics). Classes are meanlingless. Skills are meaningless. Just be invisible and shove the enemies of the cliff with 100% chance.

Invisibility shove was changed as of the most recent patch. You lose invisibility when you shove and most shove paths of instakill cliffs aren't valid anymore. Most reliable way to get the Phase Spider Matriarch down the hole now is to lure her to the lowest web over the hole and destroy it while she's on it. If you never want any other fights to be hard, Getting her down the hole is the easiest way to get her on your team with Glut, and I think she's the best monster you can get on your team this patch.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Glut raised dead zombie army for the win.

Create character, fast track them to Underdark, then fast track them to Myconid Colony, talk to Sovereign, recruit Glut, go raise all the dead bodies laying around (latest vid I seen, you can get 16-17 raised), then go trash Minos, Bulette, and Spectator = game over.

Larian not fixed this broken arse crap yet? At least limit the number that can be raised, but yeah, even with a raised undead limitation of say 3-5, walking around with 2 Minos, Bulette, and a Spectator/Matriarch = game over. GG, Larian, wtg.


/sarcasm.
Good grief.
Originally Posted by xnihil0zer0
Invisibility shove was changed as of the most recent patch. You lose invisibility when you shove and most shove paths of instakill cliffs aren't valid anymore.


Sounds to me like battling the syptoms instead of dealing with the causes. But maybe I'm underestimating their changes. I willl see soon enough I guess,
Originally Posted by bullse
Glut raised dead zombie army for the win.

Create character, fast track them to Underdark, then fast track them to Myconid Colony, talk to Sovereign, recruit Glut, go raise all the dead bodies laying around (latest vid I seen, you can get 16-17 raised), then go trash Minos, Bulette, and Spectator = game over.

Larian not fixed this broken arse crap yet? At least limit the number that can be raised, but yeah, even with a raised undead limitation of say 3-5, walking around with 2 Minos, Bulette, and a Spectator/Matriarch = game over. GG, Larian, wtg.


/sarcasm.
Good grief.

I think they tried to fix him. He doesn't have Raise Dead via Spores anymore. He only has Animating Spores. I think it's supposed to have a raise limit of one, but if you dismiss Glut and invite him with a different character, you can attach one raised creature per character. However, Ghekh Coal's Animate Dead doesn't have a limit(though he loses Animate Dead after a save load), and if you get him a big portrait, by getting him engaged in combat and using a door with the character he is attached to, then camp, all his raised dead will be individually controllable and turn back to their original forms.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
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