Larian Studios
Posted By: cgexile where is the humor? - 12/11/20 02:30 AM
Where is Sir Lora? Where is Xzar and Montaron? Where is all that voice acting?

I feel like Swen turned in to Chris Nolan and Larian is making their Dark Knight.

I mean BG3 will probably be a solid game but so far it feels like a really depressing one. The only amusing part thus far for me are the goblins periodically taking a piss. Beyond that... whyyyyy ssooooo sssssssssssssssserious????? I know Minsc is eventually in the game but I am scared of what you may have turned him and his hamster in to at this point.
Posted By: IrenicusBG3 Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 02:33 AM
I feel there is too much humor.

Especially in Astarion and Gale.

I am ok with the Goblins, but some characters with dramatic background are not believable.
Posted By: AlanC9 Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 02:37 AM
I thought BG3 has plenty of humor. Maybe cgexile just hasn't gone down the right paths?
Posted By: cgexile Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 03:02 AM
They all seem pretty serious to me. I mean there are some amusing lines here and there. The goblin banter is amusing, but I feel like it's I'm missing that constant light-heart companionship from the other games and that's why overall it can feel kind of depressing. I do enjoy the interaction between Lae'zel and Shadowheart but it's mainly them ready to kill each other. It's kinda funny but at the same time I'm on egg shells wondering like at any moment they are about to bounce on out of my party because they can't stand each other; which was a thing in BG.
Posted By: vometia Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 03:11 AM
It does seem a bit serious business (I mean other than the random banter from the goblins). I just assumed D&D is like that.
Posted By: KillerRabbit Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 03:26 AM
BG2 fans are split on Jan who was a comic relief character. I love Jan and I had him in most of my parties. Minsc was about 50 percent humor.

But you could also assemble downright morose murder party -- Valygar musing on whether he was right to murder his parents, Keldorn depressed after he murdered his wife, Anomen repenting for having murdered Saerk, non romanceable Jaheria musing about her murdered husband.

I think they've got the tone right -- once Minsc comes we'll get some humor. BG is more Star Wars than Guardians of the Galaxy or Spaceballs.
Posted By: Rhobar121 Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 03:34 AM
In retrospect, it seems a little funny how people complained because the game was supposed to be too comical because it's creates by Larian.
Posted By: IrenicusBG3 Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 03:49 AM
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
BG2 fans are split on Jan who was a comic relief character. I love Jan and I had him in most of my parties. Minsc was about 50 percent humor.

But you could also assemble downright morose murder party -- Valygar musing on whether he was right to murder his parents, Keldorn depressed after he murdered his wife, Anomen repenting for having murdered Saerk, non romanceable Jaheria musing about her murdered husband.

I think they've got the tone right -- once Minsc comes we'll get some humor. BG is more Star Wars than Guardians of the Galaxy or Spaceballs.


Jan was fantastic.
Posted By: LoneSky Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 03:51 AM
This could be because we don't have all companions yet:
"We put in the evil and neutral NPC companions first, so there was a bit of backlash from people complaining that all the characters were so haughty and snarky, but it was really just those characters acting as their natural selves. I didn’t realise it would be such a thing, but in reality we just hadn’t put the good characters in yet. There’s a much wider variety" (see full link to articles here https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=730365)

I miss companions who keeps hoping no matter what happens, like Imoen. My BG2 companions always get along well and it's a pleasure travelling with them: Nalia, Aerie, Mazzy, Neera.
The ones we got here have far bigger problems than the tadpole. Gale is the only with humor, but you must pick the answers very well to find that humor (let him give the long version and then pick part funny, part smart answers). It's not much, but it's there.

The bard we can save from Goblin camp also tries to be funny, not sure if it is. Feels awkward. Or maybe I don't get it. Thought he was scared by goblins and lost his wits. But who knows, maybe he will do some better jokes later.
Posted By: Firesnakearies Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 03:54 AM
Please god no. The DOS games had way too much silly nonsense, and even the BG games did. I don't want "comedy fantasy", I want serious fantasy. That doesn't mean that funny things can't happen or that characters can't crack jokes, but there's a difference between naturalistic humor and over-the-top zany absurd shit just for the sake of "the luls".
Posted By: Rhobar121 Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 04:01 AM
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Please god no. The DOS games had way too much silly nonsense, and even the BG games did. I don't want "comedy fantasy", I want serious fantasy. That doesn't mean that funny things can't happen or that characters can't crack jokes, but there's a difference between naturalistic humor and over-the-top zany absurd shit just for the sake of "the luls".


For this reason, I will most likely prepare a roasted hamster smile
Posted By: cgexile Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 04:18 AM
Originally Posted by LoneSky
This could be because we don't have all companions yet:
"We put in the evil and neutral NPC companions first, so there was a bit of backlash from people complaining that all the characters were so haughty and snarky, but it was really just those characters acting as their natural selves. I didn’t realise it would be such a thing, but in reality we just hadn’t put the good characters in yet. There’s a much wider variety" (see full link to articles here https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=730365)

I miss companions who keeps hoping no matter what happens, like Imoen.


Ah, thanks for that IGN article. I guess if they add more potential companions that have a positive outlook on life and boost traveling morale, like Imoen, that will be outstanding. I liked Imoen and I really liked Lohse (even if I had to kill her in the end, after which I reloaded the game and allowed he to ascend instead so I didn’t have to). I don’t mind 1 party member with emotional issues but when everyone is like that, it’s basically Lone wolf mode if at all possible.
Posted By: Verte Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 04:21 AM
Originally Posted by cgexile
whyyyyy ssooooo sssssssssssssssserious?????



Are you serious?
Posted By: Zarna Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 04:22 AM
Originally Posted by cgexile

I mean BG3 will probably be a solid game but so far it feels like a really depressing one. The only amusing part thus far for me are the goblins periodically taking a piss. Beyond that... whyyyyy ssooooo sssssssssssssssserious?????

The tadpole situation is a bit serious. I would question the sanity of anyone trying to goof off right now.


Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
I don't want "comedy fantasy", I want serious fantasy. That doesn't mean that funny things can't happen or that characters can't crack jokes, but there's a difference between naturalistic humor and over-the-top zany absurd shit just for the sake of "the luls".

This.
Posted By: LoneSky Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 04:25 AM
Originally Posted by cgexile
I don’t mind 1 party member with emotional issues but when everyone is like that, it’s basically Lone wolf mode if at all possible.


Agreed. Not my kind of fun either. I like to help and save everyone, and expect my companions to feel the same, if not, I will go alone.
Posted By: Tuco Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 04:32 AM
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Please god no. The DOS games had way too much silly nonsense, and even the BG games did. I don't want "comedy fantasy", I want serious fantasy. That doesn't mean that funny things can't happen or that characters can't crack jokes, but there's a difference between naturalistic humor and over-the-top zany absurd shit just for the sake of "the luls".


Incidentally, I think that DOS 1 in particular was at its worst when it attempted to be serious and at its best when it introduced the "silly" content like talking animals, the Wishing Well Brothers, etc.
I doubt anyone ever actually gave a fuck about Braccus Rex, for instance.

Still, I don't disagree with the sentiment. I'd like humor and witty writing to be side notes more than the central piece of a deliberate "fantasy parody".
For instance I appreciated the dark humor of Auntie Ethel who insisted in talking as an overzealous granny even after her cover identity was blown entirely.
Posted By: Orbax Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 04:57 AM
Originally Posted by vometia
It does seem a bit serious business (I mean other than the random banter from the goblins). I just assumed D&D is like that.



D&D is silly and a few sessions ago people were crying with laughter from how ridiculous what just happened was. Its usually an unmitigated disaster that somehow stumbling from f-up to f-up like a drunken sailor somehow turns into making it through something you had no reason to. There are moments its serious and people need to get their game faces on but its usually a DM face palming. A picture I made a while ago after a session (not my face)

The DM
Posted By: Firesnakearies Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 05:18 AM
Originally Posted by Tuco

Incidentally, I think that DOS 1 in particular was at its worst when it attempted to be serious and at its best when it introduced the "silly" content like talking animals, the Wishing Well Brothers, etc.
I doubt anyone ever actually gave a fuck about Braccus Rex, for instance.



Oh yeah, DOS1 had a pretty trash story. That's why I never finished it. I just didn't care about anything that was happening. Too much spectacle, not enough substance.
Posted By: JustAnotherBaldu Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 06:42 AM
Humor huh?

Well considering that everybody probably himself to be a dead-mortal-walking... I doubt the round can be too cheerful.
Posted By: Aurgelmir Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 07:34 AM
You are asking for "silliness" not really Humor. There's lots of humor in the game. There's less of the silly natured things like Sir Lora etc. (Although get yourself speak with animals, and have a chat with the squirrels, they are a hoot)
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 08:25 AM
I would say that there is more than enough humor ...

When Volo do almost anything its funny ... and when he tryed to remove tadpole, it was hilarious ...
Some of conversations between characters are quite funny ...
Gale, and Shadowheart do have some funny comentaries ...
In Goblin camp i feeled amused by almost everything, from vendor goblin comentaries, through chicken chase, to talking to crusher.

Dunno where is the problem here. :-/
Posted By: Tuv Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 10:05 AM
Originally Posted by vometia
It does seem a bit serious business (I mean other than the random banter from the goblins). I just assumed D&D is like that.


DnD is first and foremost whatever you make of it. It is "anything particular" only second. Humor itself can be whatever we make of life, so it can go with anything or fail miserably.

A lot of the humor in DnD can come from good/bad rolls in combination with the player's intention.
All it needs is an engine (our mind) to provide for the physics. If the player can create their own humorous scenarios, then please continue to do so. The levity in conversation with the companions is pretty good already, so just keep going there. not too much and not too little.

Assume that humor is there to deal with a situation, not for humor's sake. At least in a serious situation. You can't speak plainly so you crack a joke, everybody is well aware that they are turning into tentacles and goo.

Jokes can go horribly wrong, perfect for the companions in the game currently. They do seem like they could take it the wrong way.

If you want funny, try DnD funny.
This can be in-lore jokes (Jan Jansen) or the d20 system of semi-random outcomes. Some things like the polymorphed chicken (Melicamp), an adventure like no other (limited wish spell), gender-swapping Edwin (cursed belt), putting the gate back in baldurs gate via wild magic or the very meta-gaming "player reloads" little episode in the underdark. The graveyard in nashkell is both funny and stupidly challenging.

DnD already provides for plenty of official items to play with. I mean, all the damn talking artifacts alone...

Baldur's Gate offered pretty much any companion one could think of with a narrow, medieval-fantasy mind.
It let the player decided who comes along and for how long. Banter didn't feel as imposed as it feels now with the limited selection. I just happen to like what we have already.


Baldur's Gate 1&2 never seemed too silly as the engine didn't allow for blowing up the entire map but if it did, people would have done so and bg would have become famous for it. for the wrong reasons.
Just watch out Larian, if you give us the ability to lessen our own immersion in the gameworld by doing funny/silly, we will do so. In the second playthrough.

I was never quite sure whether or not the divinity (not only DOS) games wanted their world and story to be taken as seriously as the competition. Or if this extreme levity was part of the design. As far as I can remember the humor in Larian games has been a double edged sword, humor but at the cost of world building, instead of supporting world building.
The literal void dragon, the arcade-arena-rpg map with 4 colors/seasons, the explosions and telekinesis without elevating the mechanics out of alpha, no serious economy, constant going from one crazy location to the next without ever getting to know the world. All with an ensemble of characters that are over the top more often than not.

Planescape perfected the balance between serious/funny, weird/believable. Not even Sigil is a place where litterally anything goes however. It felt Sigil, and BG felt like Sword coast. Larian games' worlds always feel like a Larian world, something not quite finished.

Here is a couple things that work great already

  • BG3 has great banter already and I think humor in general is good.
  • The ox in the barn is now the biggest ox, good for him.
  • The other barn scene.
  • Trapped inside bibberbang.
  • The tadpole trying to escape after nearly having been crushed only to fall victim to time dilation and the subsequent magic missile to the face(?).
  • Goblin shooting an explosive arrow at Gale? Gets reflected, explodes in the goblins face and thus takes down parts of the gate, having a total of 3 gobos fall down. comedy gold!
  • Talking to animals, getting a second opinion on the two-legs around. The snarky wolve, the horny boar, the new-alpha ox, so good, all of it.
    Every time a character fails at "their thing" with a natural one and it doesn't result in total war


Good job so far!
Posted By: Abits Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 10:12 AM
I want a talking chicken and a talking sword. that's all.
Posted By: carcra Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 10:50 AM
I like that the game has humor amidst the serious themes but doesn't go too far with it, imo. I love Volo and find his arrogance very entertaining, the goblins at the goblin camp provided some humor here and there, Astarion has a lot of funny dialogue (though some might find it tasteless, I guess) and Gale's protocol/some of his dialogue made me laugh as well. Apart from that there is the wholesome tiefling couple at the Grove, Lump the enlightened, the gnome at the windmill...I feel like there are plenty of characters with charm and humor. They're not necessarily making jokes, but they have humorous interactions/personalities. Then again, humor is highly subjective, but personally I really enjoy it so far.

EDIT: Don't know how I forgot to mention my favorite character in the EA so far, Auntie Ethel
Posted By: Abits Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 10:52 AM
also, bohhaaaaaaallll
Posted By: Maldurin Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 11:09 AM
I think BG III has a great taste for humor, especially Astarion became one of my favorite whith his lines ("..and i wish i would drink of the skulls of everyone who did me wrong. life is tough) or (you can literally talk to animlas!")
but in a fitting, not to goofy way.

There are funny moments when you play as a drow as well, for example the goblins calling you "my drowness".
for me its pretty well done!
Posted By: FatePeddler Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 11:33 AM
Sir Lora got annoying pretty damn quickly, I was so glad when I made a run where I didn't have Pet Pal.

Astarion is very fun too <3, I wish my character chuckled like I would :P.
Posted By: cgexile Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 01:02 PM
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
I would say that there is more than enough humor ...

When Volo do almost anything its funny ... and when he tryed to remove tadpole, it was hilarious ...
Some of conversations between characters are quite funny ...
Gale, and Shadowheart do have some funny comentaries ...
In Goblin camp i feeled amused by almost everything, from vendor goblin comentaries, through chicken chase, to talking to crusher.

Dunno where is the problem here. :-/


I think he removes your eye, which is cringeworthy humor at best.

Yes I agree the conversations between the characters can be amusing. However, I realized I miss a lot of them because when I click to run somewhere I move the camera out of focus and by the time I refocus on the party I've already missed whatever they were talking about.

Yeah the Goblin camp is great, but once you wipe it off the map, that's over with.

Originally Posted by FatePeddler
Sir Lora got annoying pretty damn quickly, I was so glad when I made a run where I didn't have Pet Pal.


I guess? Maybe that's what I'm missing smile Talking to cats, crabs, etc was truly hilarious because of the script and the voice acting.
Posted By: mr_planescapist Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 01:15 PM
Where is the humor??? lol
Have you been watching these <animated> cinematic dialogues?? Monty python levels of humor there.

The head movements/ body movement while listening.
Long pauses between lines
Starting dialogues behind objects.
Dipping your weapon then starting a dialogue.
Unresponsive lifeless companions in the background while in conversations.
....

Larian is going to be busy. NOT changing any of the discussed gameplay feedback, but mostly with the cinematics/bugs until release...
Posted By: cgexile Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 02:15 PM
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
Where is the humor??? lol
Have you been watching these <animated> cinematic dialogues?? Monty python levels of humor there.

The head movements/ body movement while listening.
Long pauses between lines
Starting dialogues behind objects.
Dipping your weapon then starting a dialogue.
Unresponsive lifeless companions in the background while in conversations.
....

Larian is going to be busy. NOT changing any of the discussed gameplay feedback, but mostly with the cinematics/bugs until release...


Yeah that's actually one of the problems right there. They try to emote with exaggerated body movements for reactions one would normally use just their eyes or their face. Since they can't articulate - well enough - the facial features (like a subtle squint for example), they have compensate for it in some other way.

The technology is just not there yet (unless they make everyone run the latest hardware and go all out on real-time photo-realistic rendering or something).
Posted By: Uncle Lester Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 04:08 PM
I haven't actually played the game yet and I'm very curious how I'll feel about the matter. BG1&2 had an awesome balance of humour and seriousness and Larian (if I were to judge by the interviews) seem to understand it. They've also stated that they understand that BG is an entirely different brand of humour than Divinity. Reading this thread makes me quite optimistic.

Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
BG2 fans are split on Jan who was a comic relief character. I love Jan and I had him in most of my parties. Minsc was about 50 percent humor.

But you could also assemble downright morose murder party -- Valygar musing on whether he was right to murder his parents, Keldorn depressed after he murdered his wife, Anomen repenting for having murdered Saerk, non romanceable Jaheria musing about her murdered husband.

I think they've got the tone right -- once Minsc comes we'll get some humor. BG is more Star Wars than Guardians of the Galaxy or Spaceballs.


Jan is objectively the best character out there! But what's great is that he's not JUST a joke character; his companion quest is quite serious, and at times his stories end up having a non-comedic point to them - like one conversation with Mazzy is actually heartwarming. He's funny - but it's also shown that there's depth to his character.

Now I want to give it a try! My attempt at different BG parties:

"Serious goody-two-shoes" BG1 party: Ajantis(?), Dynaheir, Jaheira, Kivan, Yeslick

"Weirdos" BG1 party: Alora, Minsc, Quayle, Tiax, Xzar (would be a rather short-lived party, though...)

"College kids" BG1 party: Coran, Eldoth, Garrick, Safana, Skie

"Post-traumatic" BG2 party: Imoen, Jaheira, Anomen, Keldorn, Valygar (expanded on your "morose murder party")

"Light-hearted" BG2 party: Minsc, Aerie, Haer'Dalis, Jan, Korgan

I never actually tried to theme BG companions like that, I usually just take the ones I like leaning to "good run" or "evil run". It would be an interesting experiment to do two playthroughs back-to-back with two contrasting parties. I imagine it's a completely different experience.

Originally Posted by cgexile
I don’t mind 1 party member with emotional issues but when everyone is like that, it’s basically Lone wolf mode if at all possible.


I'm the same and I'm a bit afraid it will be the case in BG3. "Emotional issues" are often conflated with character depth. I very much prefer psychologically strong characters... or just crazy ones. Not emotional trainwrecks (be it overt or hidden).

Originally Posted by Tuv
Originally Posted by vometia
It does seem a bit serious business (I mean other than the random banter from the goblins). I just assumed D&D is like that.


DnD is first and foremost whatever you make of it. It is "anything particular" only second. Humor itself can be whatever we make of life, so it can go with anything or fail miserably.

-snip-


A very interesting post. I hope Larian devs see it, I think it's a good analysis of what works and what doesn't - and what would be a good direction to take BG3 humour.
Posted By: cgexile Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 05:00 PM
Originally Posted by Aurgelmir
You are asking for "silliness" not really Humor. There's lots of humor in the game. There's less of the silly natured things like Sir Lora etc. (Although get yourself speak with animals, and have a chat with the squirrels, they are a hoot)


Well yeah it's silly but the lines were pretty funny. Silly and funny can work together. There was also a purpose to that pair as they would give you goodies throughout the story. They were more of a companion in that way than an actual PC.

Yeah I'll have to make sure to try out speak with animals after the next big content patch - definitely.


Posted By: RumRunner151 Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 10:04 PM
The problem is humor is entirely subjective. Gale and Astorian are quite funny IMO. When Gale makes comments about a post-coital picnic for example...
Posted By: Zefhyr Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 10:29 PM
From my point of view, they miss the point about humor.

In BG1 and 2, there was humor but it was pretty well incorporate in the game. Some characters was funny but there was without trying to be. They was just themselfs.


In BG3, I think the companion are not the worst. Astarion is, from my point of view, a little too much of a cliché but that's not what's annoyed me.
What's annoyed me is the humor they put in the environment. The broken guitar, the sentences of goblins in fights. It's all of this details which participate to break the immersion and give this bad DoS feeling.

Yeah, BG1 and 2 had talking sword. But this sword was so serious and had such a background ! :'(
I would be scared to find a sword in BG3. I would be scared it would be a parody of talking sword.

Again, they are missing their shot.
Posted By: Evil_it_Self Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 10:40 PM
Humor got "traded" for romance :P
Posted By: Tuco Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 10:45 PM
Originally Posted by Zefhyr
From my point of view, they miss the point about humor.

In BG1 and 2, there was humor but it was pretty well incorporate in the game. Some characters was funny but there was without trying to be. They was just themselfs.


In BG3, I think the companion are not the worst. Astarion is, from my point of view, a little too much of a cliché but that's not what's annoyed me.
What's annoyed me is the humor they put in the environment. The broken guitar, the sentences of goblins in fights. It's all of this details which participate to break the immersion and give this bad DoS feeling.

Yeah, BG1 and 2 had talking sword. But this sword was so serious and had such a background ! :'(
I would be scared to find a sword in BG3. I would be scared it would be a parody of talking sword.

Again, they are missing their shot.

Couldn't disagree more.
And I mean both on how you are framing the old games and the new one.

Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
Where is the humor??? lol
Have you been watching these <animated> cinematic dialogues?? Monty python levels of humor there.

The head movements/ body movement while listening.
Long pauses between lines
Starting dialogues behind objects.
Dipping your weapon then starting a dialogue.
Unresponsive lifeless companions in the background while in conversations.


...Nothing of what you are listing is about humor, though?
These are visual glitches and rough edges in the current state of the presentation/production value.

Posted By: KillerRabbit Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 10:55 PM
Originally Posted by Uncle Lester


Jan is objectively the best character out there! But what's great is that he's not JUST a joke character; his companion quest is quite serious, and at times his stories end up having a non-comedic point to them - like one conversation with Mazzy is actually heartwarming. He's funny - but it's also shown that there's depth to his character.



Agreed completely. It's science. Can't be argued with.

You are absolutely right, his quest gives him depth. Finally the joker's mask slips and you see the pain behind the constant stream of humor. Where Keldorn was a serious as a heart attack that could be only be turned into an object of fun by Jan, Jan is the person who even cracks a joke while dying that become a serious as Keldorn when the love of his life under threat.

I wonder if he is still alive? I mean he was a god of death for a brief period of time, perhaps that did something to lengthen his lifespan.
Posted By: Uncle Lester Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 11:18 PM
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Originally Posted by Uncle Lester
Jan is objectively the best character out there! But what's great is that he's not JUST a joke character; his companion quest is quite serious, and at times his stories end up having a non-comedic point to them - like one conversation with Mazzy is actually heartwarming. He's funny - but it's also shown that there's depth to his character.


Agreed completely. It's science. Can't be argued with.

You are absolutely right, his quest gives him depth. Finally the joker's mask slips and you see the pain behind the constant stream of humor. Where Keldorn was a serious as a heart attack that could be only be turned into an object of fun by Jan, Jan is the person who even cracks a joke while dying that become a serious as Keldorn when the love of his life under threat.


I wouldn't even say that's a mask; more that humour is a big part of his personality and his default "aspect", but it's not all he is. Jan seriously threatening someone was impactful for sure.

Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
I wonder if he is still alive? I mean he was a god of death for a brief period of time, perhaps that did something to lengthen his lifespan.


I mean if he didn't get himself killed? Sure. He's a gnome. According to the FR wikia - "Average lifespan: Usually up to 300 years, but 500 not unheard of". Jan appeared maybe middle aged? I don't think more than 200 years, anyway.

If not Jan, I hope we see some Jansen trying to start a turnip business in BG. A niece, perhaps? Then she could tell stories about Jan, just like Jan referred to his uncles. :P
Posted By: Tuv Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 11:18 PM
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit


I wonder if he is still alive? I mean he was a god of death for a brief period of time, perhaps that did something to lengthen his lifespan.



"when you have that many monkeys, anything is possible"
Posted By: fallenj Re: where is the humor? - 12/11/20 11:38 PM
Originally Posted by cgexile
Where is Xzar and Montaron?


Dead? BG1 going by this: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=675526#Post675526, In-universe date of game: Starts on 1 Mirtul "May 1st" 1368 DR

BG3 going by this: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=675618#Post675618, in-universe date: possibly 1496 DR, must be a couple months or a couple years after Descent Into Avernus

128 DR difference, going by this: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Marking_the_years. DR is actual full years, at least as far as I could tell.

But I did see Minsc in Neverwinter Online which from what I understand is also just a human, so this guy should be dead as well.

I didn't get far in bg1 and just know these characters by the names, if there is actual lore that lets them live past normal lives I wouldn't know.



The Larian silly-ness I'm used to is generally missing/replaced with awkward events. DOS1 had willy mcwishing well, the two drunk guards Junius and Bibius, guard that was in love with a female orc, & zigzax.


The one that mostly stands out in BG3 is the evil druid lady showing up at the party and being confronted by the couple, coming in second would be the romance part. Both seem rushed and out of no where, like who invited the evil druid?

They did get me on the flying gnome bit though, pull the lever the wrong way for the windmill and gnome goes flying
Posted By: cgexile Re: where is the humor? - 13/11/20 01:39 AM
Originally Posted by Tuco


Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
Where is the humor??? lol
Have you been watching these <animated> cinematic dialogues?? Monty python levels of humor there.

The head movements/ body movement while listening.
Long pauses between lines
Starting dialogues behind objects.
Dipping your weapon then starting a dialogue.
Unresponsive lifeless companions in the background while in conversations.


...Nothing of what you are listing is about humor, though?
These are visual glitches and rough edges in the current state of the presentation/production value.



Because of this I wonder if they are limited in what they can do when it comes to theatrics? A lot of the humor is conveyed through voice acting theatrics. It was up to your imagination how that character is presented in from of you based on the dialogue. Now they are presenting those characters in front of you so doing something that is accurately animated that matches those quirky characteristics is probably a challenge. A lot of the stuff in the game is achieved through motion capture, so to capture all the various funny gestures and whatever else is probably not feasible, and therefore they have to tone down (dumb down) a lot of the light-hearted goofyness (that obvious a few in this thread don't miss and that's fine) that existed in other games.
Posted By: Tuco Re: where is the humor? - 13/11/20 02:03 AM
I mean, there are already a lot of (mildly) humorous lines delivered perfectly well.
The voice acting so far has often been top in quality and Larian's "cinematic" dialogues when they work properly tend to range from good to excellent, giving characters loads of expressivity.

Visual glitches and what else on the other hand will obviously need to be addressed, but I can't even begin to pretend it's an aspect of the game I'm particularly worried about.

In fact production value is the ONE aspect where I'm confident Larian people will work their assess off to fix regardless of any player's opinion about them.
Which is why I focus most of my feedback on mechanical issues, interface, controls, world building and its coherence, exploit prevention and what else.

It's fine to point that, for instance, a dialogue flag may appear out of order (just so Larian will know and eventually fix it) or that a specific dialogue of marginal relevance may be lacking in options, but that's stuff I at most "fire and forget" on the in-client feedback form.
I'm never going to waste my time worrying about it.



Posted By: virion Re: where is the humor? - 13/11/20 02:31 AM
Originally Posted by cgexile
Originally Posted by Tuco


Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
Where is the humor??? lol
Have you been watching these <animated> cinematic dialogues?? Monty python levels of humor there.

The head movements/ body movement while listening.
Long pauses between lines
Starting dialogues behind objects.
Dipping your weapon then starting a dialogue.
Unresponsive lifeless companions in the background while in conversations.


...Nothing of what you are listing is about humor, though?
These are visual glitches and rough edges in the current state of the presentation/production value.



Because of this I wonder if they are limited in what they can do when it comes to theatrics? A lot of the humor is conveyed through voice acting theatrics.
*snip*

A lot of the stuff in the game is achieved through motion capture, so to capture all the various funny gestures and whatever else is probably not feasible, and therefore they have to tone down (dumb down) a lot of the light-hearted goofyness (that obvious a few in this thread don't miss and that's fine) that existed in other games.


1) The theatrics. 3D cutscenes absolutely don't limit what you can do with your voice actors after me ( As far as I understand that's what you implied here) BUT it does impact the end result. I think that's one of the main reasons Shadowheart for instance seems to be aggressive for no reason while without the close up on her face her words could sound differently. And that's why some jokes are delivered in one way rather than another.

2) Adapting the narrative to your technical limitations is a thing but when it comes to dialogues it's better to have the voice convey what you wanted to convey and worst case scenario the body language won't always follow together with it(The face most importantly will "suffer").

Based on what BG3 is+ the interview with Sven + common sense -> No, they intended to tune down the goofyness. But nevertheless, it's an interesting subject.


I'm digressing here, but most RPG's I played in 3d decided to ignore the body language and still rely on the voice. Especially if the character is saying something edgy/agressive it's easier to leave the voice dictate everything. They would do a close-up, make sure not too show the whole body. Body language being more meaningful it can very easily change the interpretation of the words. If done right, it helps convey the information. If done wrong it can mess up everything.

Different persons are working on each aspect! That's why it's so difficult to make sure everything is shown in the way it was intended. Shadowheart is my favourite example since in some lines she's shown as egoistic but light-minded(First discussion with her as an evil cleric was perfect). She's totally insulting my character but with open arms. There's no doubt she thinks mainly about herself but it's a normal discussion in the end. And then all of a sudden at the camp she uses very similar words but it looks like they didn't rework her idle pose and she comes up as a mid-crisis teenager.

Most of you have enough life experience to understand body language is a thing but for those who underestimate it check it out. It's quite fascinating how Gale " Death dialogue" would change if his arms weren't moving all over the place during his explanation. With arms crossed it would be safe to assume he's messing with you from "the other side". And how less funny it would be all of a sudden.
Posted By: Firesnakearies Re: where is the humor? - 13/11/20 08:54 AM
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
Where is the humor??? lol
Have you been watching these <animated> cinematic dialogues?? Monty python levels of humor there.

The head movements/ body movement while listening.
Long pauses between lines
Starting dialogues behind objects.
Dipping your weapon then starting a dialogue.
Unresponsive lifeless companions in the background while in conversations.
....

Larian is going to be busy. NOT changing any of the discussed gameplay feedback, but mostly with the cinematics/bugs until release...



Annnnd, there it is. It's not even a thread until Planescapist shows up to complain about cinematic dialogues. 110 posts on this forum, and all 110 of them are about how cinematic dialogues represent the fall of humanity.

You could make a thread asking, "What's everyone's favorite flavor of ice cream?" This cat would show up and be like, "All my ice cream melted while I was watching some shitty cinematic dialogue!"
Posted By: Vamathi Re: where is the humor? - 13/11/20 09:00 AM
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Annnnd, there it is. It's not even a thread until Planescapist shows up to complain about cinematic dialogues. 110 posts on this forum, and all 110 of them are about how cinematic dialogues represent the fall of humanity.

You could make a thread asking, "What's everyone's favorite flavor of ice cream?" This cat would show up and be like, "All my ice cream melted while I was watching some shitty cinematic dialogue!"

This and Corvella's adventures, you are my new favourite person on forum!
I may or may not have choked on my morning coffee...
Posted By: Firesnakearies Re: where is the humor? - 13/11/20 10:16 AM
Originally Posted by Vamathi
Originally Posted by Firesnakearies
Annnnd, there it is. It's not even a thread until Planescapist shows up to complain about cinematic dialogues. 110 posts on this forum, and all 110 of them are about how cinematic dialogues represent the fall of humanity.

You could make a thread asking, "What's everyone's favorite flavor of ice cream?" This cat would show up and be like, "All my ice cream melted while I was watching some shitty cinematic dialogue!"

This and Corvella's adventures, you are my new favourite person on forum!
I may or may not have choked on my morning coffee...



Well apparently we found the humor.
Posted By: cgexile Re: where is the humor? - 13/11/20 01:49 PM
Originally Posted by virion
[quote=cgexile]
1) The theatrics. 3D cutscenes absolutely don't limit what you can do with your voice actors after me ( As far as I understand that's what you implied here) BUT it does impact the end result. I think that's one of the main reasons Shadowheart for instance seems to be aggressive for no reason while without the close up on her face her words could sound differently. And that's why some jokes are delivered in one way rather than another.

2) Adapting the narrative to your technical limitations is a thing but when it comes to dialogues it's better to have the voice convey what you wanted to convey and worst case scenario the body language won't always follow together with it(The face most importantly will "suffer").

Based on what BG3 is+ the interview with Sven + common sense -> No, they intended to tune down the goofyness. But nevertheless, it's an interesting subject.

,,,


Right the voice actors will do what they do, but if the 3D is not their to match the act, everything sort of falls flat. Just like in stand-up comedy, body language and timing is almost as important as the joke itself, and some jokes rely entirely on that.

Overall most scenes and dialogue feel subdued and I think it's because of the 3D. The narrative and the writing suffers because they understand what they can and can't do with their cinematic approach to everything. I'm only speculating that this is intentional despite what Swen is saying. It's convenient to say you're make a more serious game without the gags because under the hood they have some creative limitations that they are fully aware of.
Posted By: Tuco Re: where is the humor? - 13/11/20 02:11 PM
I'm a bit confused about how many replies keep dismissing the "cinematic close-ups" in dialogues as absolute garbage, when if anything so far I've been mostly impressed by their variety and quality even on throw-away characters.

For instance, I was in awe when I met he random tiefling frantically moving her arms around when she told me "I can talk or I can pack, and right now I'm packing!" or the kid shyly swinging on one leg while telling me "I'm watching you" and pointing his fingers to his own eyes. Or the goblin that when I passed a persuasion check shifted his gaze on the low corner of the screen and mumbled as if he was actually thinking about what I said. Or Kagha and the way her body language suggested that she was visibly upset after the incident that killed the tiefling child, etc, etc.

I could go on for a while, it's a very long list.
Of course there's a lot of junk that needs to be refined, but to claim that in its current state the system is particularly lousy, when it can arguably set the golden standard in this genre? I don't get it.

Posted By: Zefhyr Re: where is the humor? - 13/11/20 04:33 PM

It's ok Tuco, you can disagree and you can do it without any explanations. ^^


About cinematics it's kind of complicated.

Good point :
everything you point out.

Bad point :
1) sometimes it's not dat good and there are some generic moves which are recurrent which is a bad thing for the immersion. It's the eternal fight imagination versus representation.
Does the pleasure you get from the representation superior to the pleasure you would have imagining the moment ?
Does the representation serve or deserve the immersion and imagination ?
Sometimes it's a win-win, sometimes it may be not ?

2) The cinematics for some NPC (like some merchants or useless dudes) looks like a waste of ressources Larian could have put in more content, etc since it didn't really give a big added value to the game.


From my point of view, even though I am able to enjoy some cinematics, with a step back, I think it's more of a gadget thing, like spangles to amazed the gamers with a "o-my-gad-what-an-amazing-technology-thing-it-s-so-futurist".

So, it looks like a waste of ressources regarding the improvement the game could use.
Posted By: cgexile Re: where is the humor? - 13/11/20 07:31 PM
Originally Posted by Tuco
I'm a bit confused about how many replies keep dismissing the "cinematic close-ups" in dialogues as absolute garbage, when if anything so far I've been mostly impressed by their variety and quality even on throw-away characters.

For instance, I was in awe when I met he random tiefling frantically moving her arms around when she told me "I can talk or I can pack, and right now I'm packing!" or the kid shyly swinging on one leg while telling me "I'm watching you" and pointing his fingers to his own eyes. Or the goblin that when I passed a persuasion check shifted his gaze on the low corner of the screen and mumbled as if he was actually thinking about what I said. Or Kagha and the way her body language suggested that she was visibly upset after the incident that killed the tiefling child, etc, etc.

I could go on for a while, it's a very long list.
Of course there's a lot of junk that needs to be refined, but to claim that in its current state the system is particularly lousy, when it can arguably set the golden standard in this genre? I don't get it.



Ok so they get an A for Ambition there is no doubt about that. It's spectacular when it works for general dialogue/acting and overall the characters look absolutely hot... uh...I mean fantastic! But using some of the characters in my post/examples, they were such big characters (implied by their theatrical dialogue) that to achieve that same level of presentation using this 3D approach is, well:

Originally Posted by Zefhyr

So, it looks like a waste of ressources regarding the improvement the game could use.


As you probably know the way they achieve a lot of their scenes is they motion capture the movements and then basically queue them up programmatically. Maybe they can also fully code some of the animations but based on what they've shown (like rolling around on the ground), it's with motion capture. So the number of scenes that they would have to essentially "film" to achieve over the top eccentric characters we get through dialogue from previous games must be so challenging that it's just not feasible to do without cutting corners somewhere; in this case it's the - funny/goofy/outlandish - script.

"My Hotel's as clean as an Elven arse!"

Where is that stuff?! smile

Posted By: Svalr Re: where is the humor? - 13/11/20 09:30 PM
Gales entire character is basically humor :P.
Posted By: KillerRabbit Re: where is the humor? - 13/11/20 09:33 PM
Yeah but when I push him into a pit he just ends in camp -- which kills the joke. And sometimes the dog.

Actually he is a well written annoyance. Good substitute for Anomen. It seems every BG game has to have an impossibly annoying NPC.
Posted By: Bukke Re: where is the humor? - 13/11/20 09:39 PM
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Good substitute for Anomen. It seems every BG game has to have an impossibly annoying NPC.

Whaaaaat
Anomen was one of my favourites!
Posted By: Ormgaard Re: where is the humor? - 13/11/20 10:25 PM
Originally Posted by Evil_it_Self
Humor got "traded" for romance :P


What Romance? its more of a tinder fuck date app.
Posted By: KillerRabbit Re: where is the humor? - 13/11/20 10:35 PM
Originally Posted by Bukke
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Good substitute for Anomen. It seems every BG game has to have an impossibly annoying NPC.

Whaaaaat
Anomen was one of my favourites!


<shocked emoji>

smile Big David Gaider fan, so totally anti-Anomen.
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