Larian Studios
Posted By: Amirit The secret of Gale's popularity - 13/04/21 01:27 PM
Statistics showed that 33% of players romanced Gale and conclusion was "he is just that attractive!". I think I can challenge that statement. If anything, he is just "that easy", or "easy to please", to get approval rating. Simple politeness will go far with him (and Will, and Shadowheart, even with Lae'sel) and he never objects of accepting a quest.

On the opposite side of the specter is Astarion - the only way to romance him is to be rude, dismissive, and aggressive towards potential quest-givers. Which a) does not make sense (he is a vampire, hiding his nature, who is also well bred and knows how to behave), b) harmful to the play-through, since you simply loose some quests. I can add c) you have to go the evil route, but that can be seeing as a good thing.

May be it is a good thing that one romance you can only get if you are evil (though majority of the players would never see half the cutscene designed by the studio) but system in general ... probably should be looked into. There are no alternative pathways even for the easier romances - you missed a scene because of pressing on with exploring, you are locked out of the further content. Sure, the exact scheme will be figured out eventually, may be even a mod will be created to set the flags right (do hope so), but that locks you on a certain gameplay, and definitely does not feel as "natural way of building up relationships".

May be different weight for different dialogs/actions would help? More emphasis on personal interactions? I am not sure, but right now relationships is anything but natural.
Posted By: Alexandrite Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 13/04/21 02:03 PM
Originally Posted by Amirit
On the opposite side of the specter is Astarion - the only way to romance him is to be rude, dismissive, and aggressive towards potential quest-givers. Which a) does not make sense (he is a vampire, hiding his nature, who is also well bred and knows how to behave), b) harmful to the play-through, since you simply loose some quests. I can add c) you have to go the evil route, but that can be seeing as a good thing.

I don't think I have missed out on any quests while romancing Astarion - though my character started off as Good (how I normally play) then veered sharply into Chaotic Neutral just to please him. :P You don't have to get ALL of his approval points, probably just the major plot ones relating to him directly (bite scene etc). I did as much of the content as I could though, helped everyone before getting to the Rescue Halsin from the Goblin Camp, so that the overall incremental approvals probably added up. I still took quests and helped people, just had to sound a bit snarky about it.

Shadowheart disapproved of my actions ALL THE TIME, so it was a complete shock to me that at Medium reputation she propositioned me at the party scene. I don't even know how I got to Medium reputation with her in the first place! I told her no thanks, because I was about to pounce on Astarion, and of course she disapproved. :P But what I'm saying is, you can still play however you want and the romances are still mostly recoverable. All of the characters are complicated personalities with various proverbial (and probably literal) skeletons in their closets, so as long as you also play a little bit complicated, not a straightforward 100% goody-two-shoes path, they'll still fall in love with you.


Originally Posted by Amirit
There are no alternative pathways even for the easier romances - you missed a scene because of pressing on with exploring, you are locked out of the further content.

This is the bit that definitely needs fixing, I agree. My husband missed quite a few of the camp scenes with companions on his first playthrough because he didn't realise there was no penalty for camping early and often! The characters are all like "there's no time to waste, we need to find a healer" so he delayed long rests at camp for as long as possible, skipped a bunch of cutscenes, and without the forums wouldn't have even realised this. The cutscenes definitely need to be queued up and happen in the order they were designed to be experienced, rather than ending up being completely missed. Otherwise a lot of players will also take the characters at their word, avoid going to camp often, and miss the best character development.
Posted By: fylimar Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 13/04/21 03:11 PM
I always thought, Astarion was the most popular romance, since the internet is full of him. If you look for anything BG3 related, chances are, you stumble across some Astarion fanart, fanfiction, Astarion comments ...

I find Gale especially hard to romance - I did try to do all romances at least once. The prerequisition for his romance is the weave scene and out of 15 playthroughs, I did manage to get that twice and I rested a lot. Not that I want romance Gale that badly, but I like to try out the different options in the weave scene. The problem is, that Gale gets approval too quickly. He normally is already high approval, when you do the harpries quest. And then you have scripted events while resting, like Raphael, Astarion trying to snack on you and so on. I find it nearly impossible to do the Gale romance.

But if I wanted, I could have romanced Astarion in nearly every playthrough but one (I didn't want to, but he offered) and I always play good aligned. You can get points, if you are understanding of his problem, be nice to the owlbear cub, declining Raphaels offer (and be adamant about that in later conversations with different companions), help Karlach (I always help her), choose deception answers... So I'm mostly in medium range with him, which is enough for the romance. You will probably run into problems later in the game though.
Posted By: Dez Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 13/04/21 03:29 PM
Originally Posted by Amirit
Statistics showed that 33% of players romanced Gale and conclusion was "he is just that attractive!". I think I can challenge that statement. If anything, he is just "that easy", or "easy to please", to get approval rating. Simple politeness will go far with him (and Will, and Shadowheart, even with Lae'sel) and he never objects of accepting a quest.

On the opposite side of the specter is Astarion - the only way to romance him is to be rude, dismissive, and aggressive towards potential quest-givers. Which a) does not make sense (he is a vampire, hiding his nature, who is also well bred and knows how to behave), b) harmful to the play-through, since you simply loose some quests. I can add c) you have to go the evil route, but that can be seeing as a good thing.

May be it is a good thing that one romance you can only get if you are evil (though majority of the players would never see half the cutscene designed by the studio) but system in general ... probably should be looked into. There are no alternative pathways even for the easier romances - you missed a scene because of pressing on with exploring, you are locked out of the further content. Sure, the exact scheme will be figured out eventually, may be even a mod will be created to set the flags right (do hope so), but that locks you on a certain gameplay, and definitely does not feel as "natural way of building up relationships".

May be different weight for different dialogues/actions would help? More emphasis on personal interactions? I am not sure, but right now relationships is anything but natural.

Hmm, while perhaps "easy to please", Gale certainly seem to have a lot of other issues attached to his romance in terms of bugs (like the weave scene not appearing etc). I mean, I am not really on the hype train nor ditch train for either of the three current male companions - but in all honesty... Neither is really a good fit for my ranger lady so my first playthrough was without romance - I did however try romance options with some secondary characters after that.

Gale is way too self-absorbed - and in difference from Wyll (which suffers from the same problem), he is not even the slightest aware of it. I nearly spat my drink out when I talked to Gale on one of my alt-playthroughs where I romanced Wyll and Gale went all on about how Wyll supposedly is narcissistic. :'] Probably one of my favorite moments ever - I am just sad there was no option to call him out on it.

Astarion may be lacking in more ways than one when it comes to ... The entire evil bit, but at least he is much more honest about it. And, in difference from Wyll and Gale, Astarion is much more approachable - he actually opens up and is surprisingly honest with Tav. Gale and Wyll is much less so, especially Gale.

And finally, I agree that the game gotta adjust the way players can miss interactions by accident because they did not camp frequently enough. There must be some way of fixing that before launch. :]
Posted By: Amirit Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 13/04/21 08:52 PM
33% is the official data from EA, accumulated by Larian ( https://www.vg247.com/2020/10/27/baldurs-gate-3-patch/ ), but my point is, it is not because of his awesomeness (I like him, don't get me wrong) but because the game design. The one and only path leading to romance which is hindered by mechanic contradicting the story.

Characters urges you to do not stop and find a healer as fast as you can - yet, counter-intuitively, you have to take long rests and - again! - at specific points in the game or you miss key scenes.

Or specifically about approval: one moment you have a lovely discussion with Astarion about the ways to kill yourself in case of transformation, and the next he disapproves your decision to do just that - kill yourself in case of transformation. (Can not name quests that Asterion disapproves of but there are more than one, so, yes, that romance is problematic for me)

Add bugs to it, and a lot of content gets missing.
Posted By: Arne Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 13/04/21 09:06 PM
Originally Posted by Amirit
Statistics showed that 33% of players romanced Gale and conclusion was "he is just that attractive!". I think I can challenge that statement. If anything, he is just "that easy", or "easy to please", to get approval rating. Simple politeness will go far with him (and Will, and Shadowheart, even with Lae'sel) and he never objects of accepting a quest.

Lack of competition.
Posted By: Tabuk Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 13/04/21 09:43 PM
Romance Gale?? you know he is a dude right?

95 percent or more playing this game are guys?

The real question is why does 95 percent of the player base only get one romance option "Shadowheart"?
Posted By: Amirit Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 13/04/21 09:50 PM
Originally Posted by Tabuk
Romance Gale?? you know he is a dude right?

95 percent or more playing this game are guys?

The real question is why does 95 percent of the player base only get one romance option "Shadowheart"?

Check your statistics. Will not claime 50/50 but there are far more girls playing RPGs than you want to think. Not to mention all companions are player-sexual and there are 2 more girls will be added soon.
Posted By: Nyloth Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 13/04/21 11:05 PM
Gale's popularity surprised me, because everyone is talking about Astarion and he's really easy to get. Getting Gale's romance is not so easy, which is worth its "rare" cutscene, which I still haven't been able to open. Gale also has a "love past" that is actually unpleasant. Wyll, too.

That's why choosing Astarion seems to be the most logical and easiest thing to do. But maybe some people just don't want to play "evil"? Or maybe Larian's statistics aren't quite right. Perhaps they consider "scene in the forest" as an activation of romance? Because I thought it was just part of Gale's story.

I would like to make harder get Astarion and Lae romance. I think their scenes are too easy for people to get, no matter how ppl play.
Posted By: Alexandrite Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 13/04/21 11:25 PM
Originally Posted by Tabuk
Romance Gale?? you know he is a dude right?

95 percent or more playing this game are guys?

And 79.8% of statistics are made up. Particularly that one. There are more girls playing these games than you might think.


Originally Posted by Tabuk
The real question is why does 95 percent of the player base only get one romance option "Shadowheart"?


Lae'zel is also female, and a romance option.
Posted By: Tabuk Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 13/04/21 11:32 PM
Originally Posted by Alexandrite
Originally Posted by Tabuk
Romance Gale?? you know he is a dude right?

95 percent or more playing this game are guys?

And 79.8% of statistics are made up. Particularly that one. There are more girls playing these games than you might think.


Originally Posted by Tabuk
The real question is why does 95 percent of the player base only get one romance option "Shadowheart"?


Lae'zel is also female, and a romance option.

True that. It was made up, but the point was and still remains valid, a VAST majority are male, yet we only have one romance option what? Laezel is a dragon/ lizard ,,,I don't think counts smile
Posted By: Amirit Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 13/04/21 11:35 PM
If you ever played Mass Effect you know about Paragon (good) / Renegade (bad) paths there. Statistics showed that 82% of players went pure Paragon path. So, yes, people are not as inclined to play evils as one can think. Since BG3 is advertised ass DnD game, and DnD is a lot about heroic adventure for the greater good, I would not expect too many evil-fans here either. It's not "some" players, it's majority, and locking Astarion off for them does not sound right (nor logical either - he is a civilized person and disapproval very often is "off"). I would ease his accessibility more or shift it to the personal interactions, not related to the reaction to quest taken.

If (hopefully "when") Gale's scene bug will be fixed, he might get even higher in popularity, and only because of game-mechanic.
Posted By: Alexandrite Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 13/04/21 11:45 PM
Originally Posted by Dez
Gale is way too self-absorbed - and in difference from Wyll (which suffers from the same problem), he is not even the slightest aware of it. I nearly spat my drink out when I talked to Gale on one of my alt-playthroughs where I romanced Wyll and Gale went all on about how Wyll supposedly is narcissistic. :'] Probably one of my favorite moments ever - I am just sad there was no option to call him out on it.

Astarion may be lacking in more ways than one when it comes to ... The entire evil bit, but at least he is much more honest about it. And, in difference from Wyll and Gale, Astarion is much more approachable - he actually opens up and is surprisingly honest with Tav. Gale and Wyll is much less so, especially Gale.

I was tossing up between romancing Astarion or Gale in my first playthrough, but I got one of the early camp scenes where Gale admires himself as a magical "mirror" copy and that was too much narcissism for me. And Wyll also talks himself up far too much. Both of them have personal stories hiding behind that bravado, of course, but it's the bravado that for me is an instant turn off. However, Astarion is so well written throughout, he doesn't take himself seriously and is just enjoying life as it comes, in his own twisted way. After all, he wasn't able to enjoy life for 200 years, and he is honest about it.
Posted By: Alexandrite Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 14/04/21 12:12 AM
Originally Posted by Amirit
and locking Astarion off for them does not sound right (nor logical either - he is a civilized person and disapproval very often is "off"). I would ease his accessibility more or shift it to the personal interactions, not related to the reaction to quest taken.

I do agree here - some of his reactions to quests/interactions, particularly regarding topics of slavery and freedom, raised my eyebrows as they didn't quite seem to fit his personality and what we know of his past.
Posted By: Umbra Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 14/04/21 12:44 AM
It's the false teeth.
Posted By: fallenj Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 14/04/21 05:57 AM
Originally Posted by Tabuk
Originally Posted by Alexandrite
Originally Posted by Tabuk
Romance Gale?? you know he is a dude right?

95 percent or more playing this game are guys?

And 79.8% of statistics are made up. Particularly that one. There are more girls playing these games than you might think.


Originally Posted by Tabuk
The real question is why does 95 percent of the player base only get one romance option "Shadowheart"?


Lae'zel is also female, and a romance option.

True that. It was made up, but the point was and still remains valid, a VAST majority are male, yet we only have one romance option what? Laezel is a dragon/ lizard ,,,I don't think counts smile

Pfft Laezel is more lady than you can handle.

Also, wonder what the statistics were for Gale getting killed on sight and left on the road. Way to nice & a wizard, no sir.
Posted By: Nyloth Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 14/04/21 09:05 AM
Originally Posted by Amirit
If you ever played Mass Effect you know about Paragon (good) / Renegade (bad) paths there. Statistics showed that 82% of players went pure Paragon path. So, yes, people are not as inclined to play evils as one can think. Since BG3 is advertised ass DnD game, and DnD is a lot about heroic adventure for the greater good, I would not expect too many evil-fans here either. It's not "some" players, it's majority, and locking Astarion off for them does not sound right (nor logical either - he is a civilized person and disapproval very often is "off"). I would ease his accessibility more or shift it to the personal interactions, not related to the reaction to quest taken.

If (hopefully "when") Gale's scene bug will be fixed, he might get even higher in popularity, and only because of game-mechanic.

Wyll literally leave if you destroy the grove. I would say that what you have now is already "lite" for evil companions, because Astarion and Lae do not leave you after defending the grove. If it was "fair" then one of them would have left. You can also get Astarion romance scene even on a neutral approval. How much easier do you need?

Honestly? This should be seriously complicated. Or have consequences in the future, for example, I believe that Astarion can betray MC very easily.

I also want to tell you that most people choose "good" because it is more profitable. Most of the companions in the games usually approve of "good options" and if you want to establish a relationship with them, then you have no choice. Evil companions are rare! Another thing is that in bioware games, most of the "evil" responses are not evil at all, they are aggressive and nothing more. That's why it's better to play diplomat or sarcasm than the aggressive idiot.

There are quite a lot of people who like to play evil or at least selfish neutral characters,
but evil must be well written. No one tries to do it well, the writers initially focus on the path of the hero.
Even in BG3, I read in an interview that writers are almost forced to write "the evil way". And it is already clear that it is worked out worse and its motives are quite stupid. It makes more sense to save the grove, even for an evil character to use Halsin's knowledge, than to join an unfamiliar cult. What's funny is that the "evil way" is only good for Astarion, because he is a vampire and wants to "control" the tadpole. But if you are playing evil and want to get rid of the tadpole, which is more logical, then joining an unfamiliar cult is very strange. In this way, Lae is much closer to me.

edit: I also want to say that by attacking the grove, you lose your romance with Shadow, you lose Wyll, and you may lose Gale. You are again "more profitable" to save the grove. If you lost one of the evil companions, maybe the % of good and evil would change.


Originally Posted by Alexandrite
Originally Posted by Amirit
and locking Astarion off for them does not sound right (nor logical either - he is a civilized person and disapproval very often is "off"). I would ease his accessibility more or shift it to the personal interactions, not related to the reaction to quest taken.

I do agree here - some of his reactions to quests/interactions, particularly regarding topics of slavery and freedom, raised my eyebrows as they didn't quite seem to fit his personality and what we know of his past.

What do you know about his past? He was most likely a corrupt judge. Apparently, he thought he was better than others and quite possibly sold people. Do you think he should sympathize with the slaves because he was a slave himself?
Posted By: Arne Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 14/04/21 09:14 AM
Originally Posted by Tabuk
Romance Gale?? you know he is a dude right?

95 percent or more playing this game are guys?

The real question is why does 95 percent of the player base only get one romance option "Shadowheart"?

I was also a little underwhelmed, but this is early access & I'm sure there will be more characters added.

The only question is whether the characters you meet now in the beginning will remain there or be more scattered throughout the game.
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 14/04/21 01:02 PM
Originally Posted by Tabuk
The real question is why does 95 percent of the player base only get one romance option "Shadowheart"?
I think you misspelled "Minthara". :P

Originally Posted by Nyloth
Gale's popularity surprised me, because everyone is talking about Astarion and he's really easy to get. Getting Gale's romance is not so easy, which is worth its "rare" cutscene, which I still haven't been able to open. Gale also has a "love past" that is actually unpleasant. Wyll, too.
Funny ...
I see it exactly otherwise. laugh Well maybe not exactly, since i havent seen Gale's romance, unless i specificly aimed for it, that is true ... but it was exactly same for me with Astarion, or Shadowheart. :-/
Wyll seemed like freebee, just like Minthara ... help/burn the groove and here you got your lover ... i rejected him every single time tho, since he is just awfull person. -_-

So, for myself ... the best Romance option was allways Lae'zel (unless Minthara happened).
Posted By: Nyloth Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 14/04/21 02:25 PM
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Tabuk
The real question is why does 95 percent of the player base only get one romance option "Shadowheart"?
I think you misspelled "Minthara". :P

Originally Posted by Nyloth
Gale's popularity surprised me, because everyone is talking about Astarion and he's really easy to get. Getting Gale's romance is not so easy, which is worth its "rare" cutscene, which I still haven't been able to open. Gale also has a "love past" that is actually unpleasant. Wyll, too.
Funny ...
I see it exactly otherwise. laugh Well maybe not exactly, since i havent seen Gale's romance, unless i specificly aimed for it, that is true ... but it was exactly same for me with Astarion, or Shadowheart. :-/
Wyll seemed like freebee, just like Minthara ... help/burn the groove and here you got your lover ... i rejected him every single time tho, since he is just awfull person. -_-

So, for myself ... the best Romance option was allways Lae'zel (unless Minthara happened).

you like men who constantly talk about their exes? I'm not.
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 14/04/21 06:11 PM
Originally Posted by Nyloth
you like men who constantly talk about their exes? I'm not.
I would not say "like" ...
But i would be probably quite forgiving when someone would telling me about sharing a bed with goddess. laugh

Its certainly better for me than man who constantly talk about himself ... even when he wish to honor mine deeds. laugh

Also, i usualy focus more on girls. smile
But i must say that Astarion is good pal, not exactly potential "partner", but pal. laugh
Posted By: Amirit Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 14/04/21 09:01 PM
To be completely fair, the real data and true discussion would be possible only after release, when all the options will be here and the bugs will be fixed. I just hope they will look into system to smooth out approval.
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 14/04/21 10:32 PM
I dare to say that this is something that should be concidered without saying ...
Its often not, but should.
Posted By: ash elemental Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 15/04/21 10:15 AM
Well, if you look broader, all of the companions have a figure in their life that they are fixated on, be it Mystra, Mizora, Cazador, Shar or Vlaakith. I think this is because of the origin stories being custom tailored to the main plot of the game. My guess is that the absolute will use that figure to try to bring the companions to its side.

So whether Gale talks about his goddess ex-lover while Shadowheart about her devotion to Shar, or Astarion about his hatred towards Cazador, they all might face the same turning point when the party confronts the absolute.
Posted By: GM4Him Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 15/04/21 11:34 AM
I just think all the romances are forced and unbelievable.

You just crash to Faerun on a mind flayer vessel. You meet these people and spend a few days with them. You do a few things they like and BAM. "Sleep with me."

Lae'zel is Gith, and though I don't think she's what she pretends to be, I would think that she would be WAY harder to romance than, "You killed gobbo leaders. Let's do it."

Wyll has been chained to some demon chick and obviously burned before.

Gale was/is potentially still on love with Mystra.

Shadowheart can't even fully remember who she is.

Astarion...well...maybe. He's free and maybe looking for a good time, but still...with you? In some scenes he acts like you're an insect needing to be squashed.

Minthara...well...ok...she's nuts, so...maybe her as well.

Either way, I still remember the first playthrough. It shocked the heck out of me when suddenly most of the party was propositioning me. There was not flirting, teasing, time spent together having fun or getting to know one another, nothing. It was like 0 to 60. No romance. Just pure sex.

So I wouldn't even called these romance options, just sex options.
Posted By: Nyloth Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 15/04/21 04:16 PM
Originally Posted by ash elemental
Well, if you look broader, all of the companions have a figure in their life that they are fixated on, be it Mystra, Mizora, Cazador, Shar or Vlaakith. I think this is because of the origin stories being custom tailored to the main plot of the game. My guess is that the absolute will use that figure to try to bring the companions to its side.

So whether Gale talks about his goddess ex-lover while Shadowheart about her devotion to Shar, or Astarion about his hatred towards Cazador, they all might face the same turning point when the party confronts the absolute.

Shadow sees a man in her dream, not Shar. Yes, they all have someone, but the level of relationships is clearly different. Astarion also has a "nightmare", not a "love dream".

Shadow in her romance does not talk about this man, Gale discusses about "goddess" constantly. You can even ask him, " do you still love her?" I don't like such romance, it reminds me story with Red Prince, do you know how it ended? Awful.



Originally Posted by GM4Him
So I wouldn't even called these romance options, just sex options.

Shadow and Gale dont have sex scenes, their cutscenes look like the beginning of a romance. Astarion and Lae cutscenes look like just sex for fun, I agree with you here. That's probably why they're the easiest to get.
Posted By: ash elemental Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 15/04/21 04:29 PM
Originally Posted by GM4Him
I just think all the romances are forced and unbelievable.

You just crash to Faerun on a mind flayer vessel. You meet these people and spend a few days with them. You do a few things they like and BAM. "Sleep with me."

Lae'zel is Gith, and though I don't think she's what she pretends to be, I would think that she would be WAY harder to romance than, "You killed gobbo leaders. Let's do it."
I think for Lae'zel it's not really romance. Your fate is unknown at this point and you might turn into a mind flayer any day,. At least to me her offer (and Astarion's) seemed more like "let's party now, because tomorrow we may die", so for them it is in character imo. I doubt the githyanki society is big on romance anyway.

Originally Posted by Nyloth
Shadow sees a man in her dream, not Shar. Yes, they all have someone, but the level of relationships is clearly different. Astarion also has a "nightmare", not a "love dream".

Shadow in her romance does not talk about this man, Gale discusses about "goddess" constantly. You can even ask him, " do you still love her?" I don't like such romance, it reminds me story with Red Prince, do you know how it ended? Awful.
Shadowheart is so secretive, I wouldn't be surprised if her dream lover turns out to be a fellow Sharran. Astarion has nightmares about Cazador, but at the same time he considers them a fair price for the tadpole powers. Gale I suspect is just lying about his dream. But ultimately the absolute uses those figures to convince the companions (and the main character) to join the cult, so even if one is a dream lover and the other a nightmare, the end goal is the same. I'd consider Astarion to be the most likely companion to betray the PC, even if romanced, to the absolute.
Posted By: Cerbir Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 15/04/21 04:47 PM
Getting on gales good side is blisteringly easy. Seriously, that man goes from zero to best bud at the speed of a few days just by doing run of the mil hero stuff that you were probably going to do anyways, unless you are playing as a sociopath that gets a kick out of torturing refugees and murdering children. Matter of fact, just running around like some sort of benevolent exp hoarding loot goblin (like the overwhelming majority of people seem to do in almost every RPG since the beginning of time.) will be more than enough.

First playthough: I used gale in my party a sum total of twice and my interactions with him were bloody limited. Despite this fact, he somehow ended up as having a pretty darned high approval rating. I think I spoke with him maybe less than ten times counting the two times I told him to get back to camp. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against the single most run of the mill generic wizard ever to wizard but, he didn't make the A-team
and so he ended up on the bench with shadowheart who I also had very few interactions with and seem to irritate just by existing....
Posted By: Nyloth Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 15/04/21 04:55 PM
Originally Posted by ash elemental
Originally Posted by Nyloth
Shadow sees a man in her dream, not Shar. Yes, they all have someone, but the level of relationships is clearly different. Astarion also has a "nightmare", not a "love dream".

Shadow in her romance does not talk about this man, Gale discusses about "goddess" constantly. You can even ask him, " do you still love her?" I don't like such romance, it reminds me story with Red Prince, do you know how it ended? Awful.
Shadowheart is so secretive, I wouldn't be surprised if her dream lover turns out to be a fellow Sharran. Astarion has nightmares about Cazador, but at the same time he considers them a fair price for the tadpole powers. Gale I suspect is just lying about his dream. But ultimately the absolute uses those figures to convince the companions (and the main character) to join the cult, so even if one is a dream lover and the other a nightmare, the end goal is the same. I'd consider Astarion to be the most likely companion to betray the PC, even if romanced, to the absolute.

He doesn't consider them a fair price, he just believes that you need to survive in any way. But this has nothing to do with the topic of our discussion. I have no idea what Gale is dreaming about, I know that in almost all the cutscenes he talks about his relationship with the goddess and even shows her projection. Wyll also has an "ex-relationship", but at least he talks about it with anger, and Gale with regret. So Gale's romance looks bad for me (for now). And if he's lying to us, it makes it even worse!

I agree with you about Astarion, he looks like someone who would throw you into the abyss to save his own skin.
Posted By: AvatarOfSHODAN Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 15/04/21 06:37 PM
Originally Posted by ash elemental
Originally Posted by GM4Him
I just think all the romances are forced and unbelievable.

You just crash to Faerun on a mind flayer vessel. You meet these people and spend a few days with them. You do a few things they like and BAM. "Sleep with me."

Lae'zel is Gith, and though I don't think she's what she pretends to be, I would think that she would be WAY harder to romance than, "You killed gobbo leaders. Let's do it."
I think for Lae'zel it's not really romance. Your fate is unknown at this point and you might turn into a mind flayer any day,. At least to me her offer (and Astarion's) seemed more like "let's party now, because tomorrow we may die", so for them it is in character imo. I doubt the githyanki society is big on romance anyway.

It's certainly not romance. It's 115% carnal. And the abruptness of it isn't because of the impending doom of turning. It's cuz she got hot and bothered by all the (assumed) fighting and killing the party does when taking care of the Goblin quest. Both Lae and Astarion are hedonistic and self-interested, so them being wanton at the party made sense to me - especially making a pass at Tav because conquering the leader feeds their egos.

Originally Posted by Cerbir
First playthough: I used gale in my party a sum total of twice and my interactions with him were bloody limited. Despite this fact, he somehow ended up as having a pretty darned high approval rating. I think I spoke with him maybe less than ten times counting the two times I told him to get back to camp. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against the single most run of the mill generic wizard ever to wizard but, he didn't make the A-team
and so he ended up on the bench with shadowheart who I also had very few interactions with and seem to irritate just by existing....

Once you recruit companions, you will gain approval and disapproval regardless of whether they are in your active party or just sitting at camp. So for all you do-gooders out there, Gale and Wyll will always have the hots for you if you recruit them. I'm of the camp that this is intentional due to the tadpole connection, since several hotfixes and patches have gone by and it's never been patched out. Though there is still the bug of companions approving even when dead... so who knows.
Posted By: Amirit Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 16/04/21 01:28 AM
Originally Posted by Cerbir
Getting on gales good side is blisteringly easy. Seriously, that man goes from zero to best bud at the speed of a few days just by doing run of the mil hero stuff that you were probably going to do anyways, unless you are playing as a sociopath that gets a kick out of torturing refugees and murdering children. Matter of fact, just running around like some sort of benevolent exp hoarding loot goblin (like the overwhelming majority of people seem to do in almost every RPG since the beginning of time.) will be more than enough....

Very well said!

I do not worry that much about more sex than romance (we can hope that for Lae'sel and Astarion sex is the beginning of the romance) but agree that for others some flirtation first would not hurt. And this is mu major concern: may be there was some flirting but the scenes were eaten up and lost due to dialog system?
Posted By: KryptoKroniK Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 18/04/21 12:58 PM
that's interesting, lol. I find Gale to be the least interesting character and don't trust him really. I find Shadowheart irritating and Lae'zel and Astarion are my favorites right now.
Posted By: Van'tal Re: The secret of Gale's popularity - 18/04/21 07:57 PM
Gale is enjoyable company for sure. Very well acted, and when the Drama is minimized, he can smooth things out.

When Shadowheart reveled that she was a priestess of Shar I let her go on her merry. This made my party much more enjoyable (one beachy female is my limit). Gale began to exchange banter with Lay'zel which is so far...very amusing. Gale's only faults are that he is incredibly squishy, he eats blue items, and I haven't really learned to optimize a 5e wizard yet.

When we get multi-class, I will have to put some thought into this.

I would rank him as THE most enjoyable character so far.

Wyll is second...he is useful and not annoying...but replaceable if someone better written comes along.

Lay'zel is useful and interesting.

Astarian...annoying...kinda useless (rouges have been marginalized). I don't like him, otherwise I am sure I could make a multi-class solution.

Shadowheart...I didn't know just how irritating she was until she was gone...her stats are crap...and well...yea worst rolled priestess ever!...so nothing redeeming there.


Footnote: my first MMOs I played with some hard-core real life female players. I enjoy female company the best (when our interests are aligned). In single player games I will occasionally make a female protagonist and play her more 3rd person. Romance is out, but I like the pleasant voice (not grating) in the background and she is more like a companion.

So I re-rolled my main, created a noble background half-elf hex-blade female (Expanded Warlock mod at Nexus...which works nice), and role-played her as a good character. It is the missing piece of the puzzle for me. Just as I thought, having one well mannered female in the party rounds things out.

Stats for those who want to try a Hexblade:

Go half-wood-elf for mobility, stealth, darkvision, and resists...I chose Arcana and Investigation for class and Charisma and history from noble.
Now INT, Wisdom, and Strength are all my dump stats but the headband of intellect raises me to 18 for all the intelligence checks.

Str 8
Dex 16
Con 16
Int 8 to 18 with headband
Wis 8
Charisma 17 (waiting on Elven Accuracy to bump it to 18 at at level 8) ...actually there is a mod for that too, if you want to run multiple mods and a mod manager. Gonna try Great Weapon Master at 4 (since they fixed Devil's sight for advantage in melee.

I dual-wielded scimitars 'till level 3...then Pact Weapon Greatsword (which uses Charisma to hit and damage via Pact of the blade ).

The mod is easy to install..two pax files (one pre-requisit that you will see at download). Drop these in mods folder in documents.
Edit the modsettings.lsx file with notepad...replace everything with the script on the installation notes at nexus (copy and paste).

You even get a recolored sorcerer's robe that has chainmail stats...form and function...so 13 + 2 (from dex) = 15 AC Greatsword of Tyr for 17 AC ... Add Armor of Agathys for HP and more damage if you are struck in melee. Mirror image or Darkness for added strategy. Eldritch Blast (agonizing blast invocation) for the total package.

Grover approved (from Sesame street). He will hurt you both near and far!
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