Larian Studios
Posted By: Cityracer Monk, But Not Literally - 29/07/21 08:49 AM
I have a mixed opinion on the Monk class. On one hand, I find the idea of playing an unarmed martial artist that uses Ki to be very appealing(I love OG Dragonball). On the other hand, I don't wish to play a character that is a literal Monk.

Therefore I would suggest that when this class is implemented, there should be a way to have the abilities of a Monk, without actually being a Monk. I'm not sure exactly how you would do this, as I'm not that familiar with DND. Perhaps as a subclass(maybe called Martial Artist).

Edit: Also, Tonfa would be a great Monk weapon.
Posted By: Piff Re: Monk, But Not Literally - 29/07/21 10:47 AM
Monks don't have to actually be monks...

Literally the only think that makes a Monk in DnD 5e is the martial arts. You don't need to be part of a temple or order, or be lawful, or celibate. A lot of people play Monks that way, but it's not compulsory.
Posted By: 1varangian Re: Monk, But Not Literally - 29/07/21 11:16 AM
Yeah no need to get stuck on a word like that. Thieves don't have to run around stealing either.
Posted By: Blackheifer Re: Monk, But Not Literally - 29/07/21 11:54 AM
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Said no one ever in a game of D&D.
Posted By: Thrythlind Re: Monk, But Not Literally - 29/07/21 01:55 PM
The classes need names for mechanical recognition and convenience, but they're not in-universe labels that are automatically applied.

Rogues can be scholars, police-investigators, spies, acrobats, musicians, blacksmiths, and so on. Their main focus is just being really skilled and having minimal magic.

Not all characters of the Paladin class would be called a Paladin either... some might get called "Champion" or "Blackguard" or some other term. Some might not have an official title... I sincerely doubt that my paladin of Sharess would be known by any title other than courtesan since Sharess's doesn't strike me worship as the type to have clear titles and hierarchies.

I kinda wish they'd change the names of "Monk" and "Barbarian" to something else because there is a constant battle to tell people "no, it doesn't have to be X narrow character concept". "Warrior" seems a culturally broader while still encompassing the mechanical concepts. But I haven't found a good term for "Monk" to avoid the narrow image that is associated there. Martial Artist doesn't really fit... pure martial training and art is more like what the Fighter is really. All the monks have hefty spiritual powers and their martial abilities are more side-effect than focus a lot of times... I thought about "Mystic" but that has other narrow connotations that aren't right. "Adept" is kinda vague and is very Shadowrun.
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Monk, But Not Literally - 29/07/21 03:25 PM
Originally Posted by Blackheifer
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Said no one ever in a game of D&D.
And im affraid that Monks in BG-3 will not be much more popular. :-/
It just stiked me today, when i was thinking about Monk ... reading their abilities maked me feel like they can be REALLY strong ... but then i realized that by not using any weapons, they imediatly lost 1d4 from diping. o_O

Im really curious how Larian will solve this ... hope we will not dip our hands. laugh
Posted By: Thrythlind Re: Monk, But Not Literally - 29/07/21 04:01 PM
Role-wise, Monks are spoilers. They excel at getting places in back ranks and making life heck for the enemy. They basically exist to screw up plans and break formations. Rogues can sort of do that, but benefit more from teamwork due to how sneak attack works and are a bit more direct damage-dealers in combat (and rogue role in 5e is heavily non-combat, to be honest)
Posted By: Cityracer Re: Monk, But Not Literally - 29/07/21 07:27 PM
I figured that in the table top, you could simply be whatever you so choose. However, in a video game, wouldn't implementation matter? I would get annoyed if NPCs treated my character like they're part of a monastery. I've never played a Larian Studios game before, so I don't know their style. I made this topic mostly to get a sense of what the Monk, as implemented by Larian, is likely to look like.
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Monk, But Not Literally - 29/07/21 07:39 PM
Concidering other classes, you only get special dialogue options ...
If you avoid them all, you should be fine.
Posted By: Thrythlind Re: Monk, But Not Literally - 29/07/21 07:47 PM
Originally Posted by Cityracer
I figured that in the table top, you could simply be whatever you so choose. However, in a video game, wouldn't implementation matter? I would get annoyed if NPCs treated my character like they're part of a monastery. I've never played a Larian Studios game before, so I don't know their style. I made this topic mostly to get a sense of what the Monk, as implemented by Larian, is likely to look like.

Yeeeah, the BG3 quotes for Seladrine Drow are reaaaallly not in keeping with Seldarine attitudes. If they were a convert, sure, because they'd be coming from that Lloth-sworn culture... but if I pick "Seldarine Drow" I expect to be playing a drow that has been in the Seldarine worship pretty much all their life and thus don't really expect to be getting dialogue options about beautiful violence.
Posted By: Piff Re: Monk, But Not Literally - 29/07/21 11:57 PM
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
... hope we will not dip our hands. laugh

... Well now i want to see that just because it sounds both stupid and hilarious and I live for that.
Posted By: Boblawblah Re: Monk, But Not Literally - 30/07/21 12:11 AM
you were saying?

Posted By: Kryldost Re: Monk, But Not Literally - 30/07/21 02:36 AM
I would totally go for monk. In my experience from quite a few games monks are clerics that are specialised for melee combat. Some support skills and a bigger array of fighting skills. I love the idea of a monk. In a few games they use combo skills, but alas thats the part that I usually like less because they require good technique and combining different hotkeys and I get lost with those. BUT in a turn by turn I think this could be pulled off by using “combo” spellslots that refreshes per turn and shortrest spell slots for finishers.
Posted By: dreambled Re: Monk, But Not Literally - 30/07/21 03:00 AM
I love playing monks, but I don't like looking like a monk. Similar to me liking mages but not liking the nightgowns that's prevalent in their design. Maybe they can do something similar to Pillars of Eternity and and allow us to wear different styles of clothes. So you can have mage robes, but you can also have doublets, tunics, etc.
Posted By: Try2Handing Re: Monk, But Not Literally - 30/07/21 04:10 AM
I think the monk-specific outfits in Pathfinder Kingmaker look super cool, and there's nothing in the game that says or implies that your character is a literal monk. You are whatever you think you are. I made a dual nunchaku wielding aasimar monk Bruce Lee just for the heck of it, then realized that character looked just like God Fist Lee Sin. It was hilarious. If I only had Shadowless Kick, that would have been perfect. I stopped that playthrough though, to switch to a Knife Master because a sneaky slippery backstabber is my true calling.
Posted By: urktheturtle Re: Monk, But Not Literally - 30/07/21 05:55 AM
I am a big advocate for the monk class being renamed "pugilist" or something, but dont worry its not like a european monk, or anything like that... even in flavor, and its not that much like an eastern monk either (just a bit).

Monk is just a name.
Posted By: Thrythlind Re: Monk, But Not Literally - 30/07/21 06:23 AM
Originally Posted by urktheturtle
I am a big advocate for the monk class being renamed "pugilist" or something, but dont worry its not like a european monk, or anything like that... even in flavor, and its not that much like an eastern monk either (just a bit).

Monk is just a name.

The problem is pugilist is another title that's a bit to narrow in it's implications. It's basically the same problem as monk, just moved to a different place on the venn diagram.

We need a name that is broader.

The more I think, the more "Mystic" doesn't seem so terrible. Not really a caster, but someone that does weird supernatural stuff, and even base monk has a lot of that.
Posted By: Cityracer Re: Monk, But Not Literally - 30/07/21 08:21 AM
This forum is awesome, it is way more active than any forum I have been on before. Anyway, what do you guys think about the Tonfa being introduced as a Monk weapon? Personally, I think that they are great.

Originally Posted by Thrythlind
The problem is pugilist is another title that's a bit to narrow in it's implications. It's basically the same problem as monk, just moved to a different place on the venn diagram.

We need a name that is broader.

The more I think, the more "Mystic" doesn't seem so terrible. Not really a caster, but someone that does weird supernatural stuff, and even base monk has a lot of that.

"Mystic" isn't a bad choice, but doesn't really reference the martial arts aspect. Perhaps "Mystic Fist" would be better.
Posted By: Thrythlind Re: Monk, But Not Literally - 30/07/21 12:57 PM
Originally Posted by Cityracer
This forum is awesome, it is way more active than any forum I have been on before. Anyway, what do you guys think about the Tonfa being introduced as a Monk weapon? Personally, I think that they are great.

Originally Posted by Thrythlind
The problem is pugilist is another title that's a bit to narrow in it's implications. It's basically the same problem as monk, just moved to a different place on the venn diagram.

We need a name that is broader.

The more I think, the more "Mystic" doesn't seem so terrible. Not really a caster, but someone that does weird supernatural stuff, and even base monk has a lot of that.

"Mystic" isn't a bad choice, but doesn't really reference the martial arts aspect. Perhaps "Mystic Fist" would be better.

The martial aspect isn't really the main story focus of the monk in a lot of cases... they're seeking perfection and find martial ability along the way, so I don't really think that there needs to be an implicit reference to it. It's not like Fighter where martial arts is the core of their concept.
Posted By: Piff Re: Monk, But Not Literally - 30/07/21 01:30 PM
Many Monks are Ascetics, despite what form it takes, they seek a higher spiritual state through discipline or self-denial (and some also practice self-mortification). If the name gets changed, that is what I'd change it to.
Posted By: Thrythlind Re: Monk, But Not Literally - 30/07/21 02:36 PM
Originally Posted by Piff
Many Monks are Ascetics, despite what form it takes, they seek a higher spiritual state through discipline or self-denial (and some also practice self-mortification). If the name gets changed, that is what I'd change it to.

Ascetic DOES work quite well and is more focused on what they are than Mystic (which IS a bit too magic leaning, hence my early dislike of it)

All the monks are based around self-discipline (self-denial and self-mortification are more optional elements) and that works well.

When you said Ascetic the only other term I thought of that would be similar was "Devotee"

Some people would note that Drunken Master is a bit off, but they're still about self-perfection and they don't actually get powered by drinking (thank god).
Posted By: Thrythlind Re: Monk, But Not Literally - 30/07/21 02:49 PM
Originally Posted by Cityracer
Edit: Also, Tonfa would be a great Monk weapon.


On the subject of Monk weapons... it would be nice to have alternate weapon designs in general.

Mechanically, Tonfa is a Club... and I've seen nunchaku variously suggested (in PHB and DMG) as either a flail or club. That said, this is sort of a later thing since I'd rather them spend time on getting the major elements of the game working.
Posted By: urktheturtle Re: Monk, But Not Literally - 31/07/21 07:50 PM
Originally Posted by Thrythlind
Originally Posted by urktheturtle
I am a big advocate for the monk class being renamed "pugilist" or something, but dont worry its not like a european monk, or anything like that... even in flavor, and its not that much like an eastern monk either (just a bit).

Monk is just a name.

The problem is pugilist is another title that's a bit to narrow in it's implications. It's basically the same problem as monk, just moved to a different place on the venn diagram.

We need a name that is broader.

The more I think, the more "Mystic" doesn't seem so terrible. Not really a caster, but someone that does weird supernatural stuff, and even base monk has a lot of that.

I dont want baseline monk punch-class to have any mystical abilities at all in any way shape or form, those can be saved for subclasses.
Posted By: CJMPinger Re: Monk, But Not Literally - 31/07/21 09:46 PM
Monk is 5e already has Ki Points which fuels its abilities. Though arguably for monk RAW is the best way to go.
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