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Posted By: rodeolifant How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 30/10/20 02:38 PM
I cannot fathom, for the life of me, what Warlocks are for, or how to use them. I couldn't figure them out in NWN2, or in 3.5 to begin with, and I still just don't get them. What do they do?
Wyll is.. kind of sucky as a Wizard, kind of sucky as an archer, kind of sucky as a melee combatant. I must be doing it wrong, what is it?
Posted By: JimSB Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 30/10/20 02:42 PM
Eldritch Blast!!!! Also, when you get to level 3->4, give him some weapon proficiencies so he can use bows and other types of weapons effectively (note - the default feat you get on level up is to increase some of the basic stats. However, you can switch feats and choose to learn weapons and shields).
Posted By: rodeolifant Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 30/10/20 02:45 PM
Yes, I was planning on that feat; although I was inclined to give him medium armor proficiency. Weapons might be better.
Posted By: Evandir Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 30/10/20 06:16 PM
Your spell Hex adds 1d6 damage to attacks you make. This includes Eldritch blast and Scorching Ray. Make sure that you always have Hex up, as long as you aren't in danger of losing concentration. You only have to use one spell slot on it, because once you kill someone who has been hexed, you can cast it again for free on another enemy.(Make sure you use re-apply Hex spell, it's separate from Hex.)

If you have a target that really needs to go down, Scorching ray can deal 9d6 to a hexed target.

Take the invocation that adds Charisma to your Eldritch Blast for an extra 3-4 damage. You should boost your CHA at level 4. It will give you more accuracy and damage. You don't need to worry about weapons, because you will almost never deal more damage with them than Eldritch Blast.

Don't forget you regain spell slots on a short rest.
Posted By: Ectheldir Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 30/10/20 06:30 PM
In terms of gameplay a Warlock is kinda a wizard with less spells (and spell-slots), but he's got a really powerfull ranged-damage cantrip (ELDRITCH BLAST). Also he gets back his spellslots on a short rest and all spells are always cast on max-level.

And additionally he uses CHA to cast. So he's really good at talking too. And you get Eldritch Invocations on lvl 2 for some fun customization. (pick Blast-damage if you are unsure what else to pick)

So, in combat: Hex'em and BLAST'em. Outside: Do all kinds of fun stuff, or just talk yourself out of it.
I really like Warlocks and I think they are really strong in the game atm although they still lack some class-features.
Posted By: KillerRabbit Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 30/10/20 06:34 PM
Warlocks are really a 4th ed class. Think of them as teleporting lazer cannons. It's all eldritch blast all the time.

They were born out of the "I hate vancian casting" / why can't I wear light armor arguments around mages. If you only use a small handful of spells and tend to build "battlemages" you want a warlock.

Wyll comes set up for his story -- but once it's clear he's a warlock there's no reason for the armor and sword. Give him a robe and staff, take the mage armor and armor of something-cold-something spells and cast those as soon as you start out. He can't see in the dark so give him the dancing light amulet and have him cast it on the enemy before eldritch blast. Use misty step to get to high ground get advantage and away from enemies. If you can't get away from enemies use the arms of hadar spell.
Posted By: rodeolifant Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 30/10/20 06:38 PM
Thanks fellas, Wyll give it another shot. Blast. Puns all as intended.
Posted By: Gaidax Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 30/10/20 06:42 PM
Warlock is nothing more than a dip multiclassing class. Pretty much whole TT meta is Warlock 2/Whatever, or Warlock 3/Whatever.

Reality is that Warlocks get some nice toys for first 2-3 levels, but after that - they are done, it's like a C grade class that's being taken to save a feat selection or two and you're correct that starting level 3/4 you are better off diversifying because Hex/EB alone simply does not do enough really and they can barely do anything else, especially with how they are in EA.

This is especially apparent in EA, where already as is - you can instead go Wizard and pick Warlock Initiate feat at level 4 and you got your Hex + you can actually cast a ton of spells and Firebolt being overtuned as it is with all the surface/burn stuff.

Eldritch Blast in EA is nothing more than a poor-man's crossbow shot and everyone can have Hex level 4 if they want that so much. EB has knockback, that's cute, but hey there are knockback arrows too, so whatever.


So yes, your assertion that it is a sucky Wizard is right on the money, because that's exactly what it is as it stands now.

Once we will have multiclassing, something like Warlock 2 or 3/Sorc X is literally a better Warlock by far - IMO what's warlock should have always been and not this 5e version that's half a class. And pure Warlock - yeah, it's just a shit Wizard really, no way to make that pretty.
Posted By: rodeolifant Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 30/10/20 07:00 PM
Multiclassing to save for feat selection? In 5E, my understanding is that feats require four levels in a single class, not four character levels... So if you want feats, you'd stick to a single class?
Knowing we'll get to play to level 10 in the full release of BG3, I can see how you dip two levels, but outside of that?
Posted By: Gaidax Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 30/10/20 07:20 PM
Originally Posted by rodeolifant
Multiclassing to save for feat selection? In 5E, my understanding is that feats require four levels in a single class, not four character levels... So if you want feats, you'd stick to a single class?
Knowing we'll get to play to level 10 in the full release of BG3, I can see how you dip two levels, but outside of that?


It is what it is, really and 2 levels dip in a class is worth it for benefits in very specific builds. For example Sorlock is popular which is Warlock 2/Sorc X or Warlock 3/Sorc X, where you literally get 90% of all the point in Warlock and actual full spellcasting ability, save a few slots missing, which does not terribly matter. That build can really pump some EBs there with Sorcery points, far better than Warlock alone ever could.

And in EB, the Warlock here is like half-implemented to begin with. Patron(s) missing and only 1 pact out of 3.


Some people do tend to lie to themselves a bit, reality is EA Warlock is probably the weakest class there is now. Like all these guys above making EB seem like it's such a hotshot spell, when in reality when you look at it - it's basically literally a pretty crossbow shot that knockbacks for free, but that you can't dip/coat in poison/have more attack with thanks to magic weapons. Quite frankly, the whole Hex benefit can be had by anyone as is, by simply using a poison bottle for weapon you get a ton of or dipping - that's free, even without doing that Hex feat trick.

And what you get to make yourself better than a crossbow? 2 Spell slots per short rest and a companion that can't hit anything to save its life that won't even scale further down the road.


So yes, Wyll feels weak, because that's simply how it is. Sometimes things are just as they appear, really.

I mean I have firsthand experience - my first PT was Warlock PC and I optimized all I could and like guys above when EB connected with hex and all I was like "woohoo, feels good"... My second playthrough - Ranger... it's like night and day, you literally do twice the damage with normal attacks with Ranger and at better hit chance and you can start out with 9 proficiencies to boot, so like... what's the point.

And that's even without all the EA cheese/bugs people do, like Wizards oneshotting dragons with thunderwave or rogues rolling in 50+ damage per turn without breaking a sweat or rangers/rogues double/triple proccing GWM for absurd damage.
Posted By: rodeolifant Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 30/10/20 07:54 PM
Fair enough. Cheers.
Ive been confused about this too - if the vast majority of the class really is just EB, that's quite disappointing. Id love to see the narrative options for warlocks in the world, but the gameplay cost seems like it may be too great.. hm.
Posted By: KillerRabbit Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 30/10/20 09:45 PM
Yeah, do a google image search on eldritch blast warlock. There's an entire set of meme dedicated this issue. 90 percent of the time EB is right choice. People who like them like that that charisma is good for social interactions or like that the RP aspects of having Cthulu as a patron.

Forced to choose I will always take a sorcerer over a warlock.
Posted By: OneManArmy Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 30/10/20 09:55 PM
I just killed him and moved on
Posted By: Evandir Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 30/10/20 10:21 PM
Don't be discouraged by people talking trash about the warlock. We are in EA and like most of the classes, it is incomplete even up to level 4. Once it's missing features are added, it will feel much better.

I emphasized the use of EB with Hex, because it sounded like you were having issues combat-wise, and that's the best way to maintain your damage output, and will only get stronger as we surpass LV 4.

One of the coolest things about the warlock is it's versatility in building it. You get so many choices of invocations that really help you customize your character in ways other classes don't get.

Comparing early level warlock to early level ranger is pointless. Ranger has one of the strongest level 1-5's out of all the classes. Colossus slayer being bugged and occurring on full HP enemies takes that a bit over the top, but doesn't change that fact.
Posted By: rodeolifant Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 30/10/20 10:31 PM
No worries, I am by no means dicouraged. Just that, so far I always left Wyll behind because I couldn't get myself to trade anyone else for him. Currently doing a goody goody Cleric of Selune specifically to see what Shadowheart and Wyll have to say. Amittedly, I get more use out of him now that I get the Blast cantrip; he's fairly fun. Not as fun as a true Wizard, I think, but fun enough.
Posted By: Stabbey Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 30/10/20 11:18 PM
Originally Posted by Evandir
Your spell Hex adds 1d6 damage to attacks you make. This includes Eldritch blast and Scorching Ray. Make sure that you always have Hex up, as long as you aren't in danger of losing concentration. You only have to use one spell slot on it, because once you kill someone who has been hexed, you can cast it again for free on another enemy.(Make sure you use re-apply Hex spell, it's separate from Hex.)


Hex, like every single Concentration spell, is a waste of time in Baldur's Gate 3 because of all the AoE damage, no-save surface effects, and going prone.
Posted By: Evandir Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 30/10/20 11:49 PM
Originally Posted by Stabbey
Originally Posted by Evandir
Your spell Hex adds 1d6 damage to attacks you make. This includes Eldritch blast and Scorching Ray. Make sure that you always have Hex up, as long as you aren't in danger of losing concentration. You only have to use one spell slot on it, because once you kill someone who has been hexed, you can cast it again for free on another enemy.(Make sure you use re-apply Hex spell, it's separate from Hex.)


Hex, like every single Concentration spell, is a waste of time in Baldur's Gate 3 because of all the AoE damage, no-save surface effects, and going prone.


You may recall posting on my thread about Concentration saves. We already share the same opinion that concentration has been unreasonably nerfed and needs to be fixed.

In my experience with the Warlock however, if I make sure that I am always positioned on the outskirts of the fight, I can keep Hex up for most of the time. This isn't always possible, but I don't cast Hex until I'm ready to start Blastingā„¢ from a good spot.
Posted By: Gaidax Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 31/10/20 12:12 AM
You can fix this by using subsequent bonus actions to go to stealth away from all the bullshit.

Eventually this will be nerfed, but maybe eventually concentration will be just a tad more reliable too.
Posted By: Rob Anybody Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 31/10/20 03:07 PM
I think part of the problem with warlocks right now is there's just no incentive to only do a short rest when you can do a long rest instead and regain all your seplls and abilities for everyone. So the warlock gets all the drawbacks of having so few spell slots, but don't really gain any benefit from being able to get them back on a short rest.
Posted By: Gaidax Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 31/10/20 06:22 PM
Originally Posted by Rob Anybody
I think part of the problem with warlocks right now is there's just no incentive to only do a short rest when you can do a long rest instead and regain all your seplls and abilities for everyone. So the warlock gets all the drawbacks of having so few spell slots, but don't really gain any benefit from being able to get them back on a short rest.


Definitely big part of the issue.

I hope down the road in release they will offer at least 3 short rests for 1 long one to let short rest dependent classes their spotlight opportunity.
Posted By: whalesecrets Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 02/11/20 04:15 AM
I think the answer is tank, with his extra hp from his pact + plus the cold armor, plus the fire reaction, his job is just to run into the middle of the fight, keep his armor up and eat apples. Granted this is probably not true in 5e, but in BG3 DnD lite it seems to be.
Originally Posted by Gaidax
Originally Posted by Rob Anybody
I think part of the problem with warlocks right now is there's just no incentive to only do a short rest when you can do a long rest instead and regain all your seplls and abilities for everyone. So the warlock gets all the drawbacks of having so few spell slots, but don't really gain any benefit from being able to get them back on a short rest.


Definitely big part of the issue.

I hope down the road in release they will offer at least 3 short rests for 1 long one to let short rest dependent classes their spotlight opportunity.


Why three? Two short rests per long rest is core rules D&D (or, strictly speaking, two short rests and one long rest every 24 hours).
Posted By: Shinshi Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 02/11/20 12:30 PM
Wyll or warlock you use as eldritch blast pusher with hex. Warlocks are multitools with 1 main tool and some gimmicky other tools.
Eldritch Blast with push effect can deal some nice fall damage. It lacks serieus spells, but cantrips are the tools of the trade.

Either go +2 charisma or pick wizard spells and cantrip feat (firebolt and MM with the MM necklace and int headband)
Posted By: Kolat Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 02/11/20 04:33 PM
In 5e, Warlocks can also deliver Eldritch Blast (effects/damage) through Weapons like Glaives and such. I'd suspect that LS will eventually add that in, I can hope...

Though Eldritch Blast, by level 5, will be doing 3d6 plus Cha to damage every hit so their damage does scale well IMO.
Posted By: MuCephei Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 02/11/20 05:37 PM
Although Warlock is pretty much the fighter amongst casting classes, it has one very important perk;
Free knockback on EB. This is not to be deminished or taken lightly in the slightest.

I believe I ran Misty Step, Scorching Ray/Shatter and Invisiblity on mine next to the mandatory EB+Hex,

Warlocks are simple builds, often described as one of the dip classes, But repelling blast is so freaking good in this game. I do not care how hard a ranger or a fighter hits when I can throw everything off of anything.
The mage tower robot in the underdark? Yeeet
The Green Hag? Yeeet
Queen Phase Spider? Yeeet
And there is more yeeting to be done.

I don't entirely agree with the criticism that they're that bad raw damagewise and I find the 'your just a heavy crossbow with a few spellslots more' argument grossly thick.
With the right evocations and hex etc a warlock hits for 1d10+CHA+1d6 damage. This is pretty solid but not shocking.
It hits better than the cleric and better than an average wizard. the only class hitting higher would most likely be a ranger, or a fighter, which in turn can be argued; what exactly makes a ranger or a fighter more interesting than a Warlock both are vanilla combat classes? I've played all of them and they were allright,
Although I did like the Warlock best because of the better Charisma stat which helps with NPC Dialogue/trading etc.

All in all, Warlock always has been kinda meh, but from a 5e perspective, it;s a charisma character with some combat prowess. Kinda linear, not very complex. But can be made lots and lots of fun in the right hands.
As with any character or class really.
Posted By: Imora DalSyn Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 02/11/20 08:18 PM
You got repelling blast to do fall damage?
Posted By: Aurgelmir Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 03/11/20 12:54 PM
Originally Posted by rodeolifant
I cannot fathom, for the life of me, what Warlocks are for, or how to use them. I couldn't figure them out in NWN2, or in 3.5 to begin with, and I still just don't get them. What do they do?
Wyll is.. kind of sucky as a Wizard, kind of sucky as an archer, kind of sucky as a melee combatant. I must be doing it wrong, what is it?



Warlocks are a bit nerfed currently in BG3, because of the unlimited Long Rests, and limited Short Rests.

Things that makes warlock interesting:

Eldritch Blast This is the best damage cantrip in DnD 5s, and only available to Warlocks.
Not only is the base damage on this cantrip very high, Warlocks get the ability to improve it with Eldritch Invocations.
You can pick two Invocations on lvl 2. My personal favorites are Agonizing blast and Repelling Blast. Giving your Eldritch blast a +CHA modifier to your damage roll, and you get a 10ft push back on the blast.

This honestly is your main source of damage through the game.

Spell Slots
Warlock has a very different spell system to that of Wizards and Sorcerers. Like the Sorcerer you pick your known spells on level up, but all your spells are always cast on your highest spell level.
Warlock also get's their spell slots back on a short rest, unlike other spell casters. As a balance you tend to have very few spell slots. This is why I say Warlock is nerfed in BG3, since all classes have this feature with how long rests have no limiting factors, but short rest is only once per long rest.

Hex
Hex is a core spell for Warlocks, it adds 1d6 necrotic damage to all your damage rolls. This is a concentration spell that in 5e lasts 8 hours, and in BG3 lasts until your long rest. You can keep casting it as long as you maintain concentration as a bonus action. It works very well with spells like Scorching Ray, which does three attacks.

Your spell slots is usually best used to get Hex up and running, and then on either utility spells, or comboing Hex with a multiple damage roll spell like Scorching Ray.

Pact
It doesn't seem like these are fully implemented yet. I have usually gone Packt of the Chain which gives you access to find familiar, with an expanded list of familiars only available to Warlocks

Other Worldly Patron
This is more or less your sub class, and gives you an interesting expanded spell list, as well as some other features. Doesn't seem to be fully implemented yet

Armor Proficiency
The Warlock is also proficient with light armor. Which is better than the Wizard's "nothing". Now one of the Invocations you can take is a once per long rest Mage Armor, if you so please, which is a good alternative to wearing light armor. But keep in mind that once you have Studded Leather +1 you no longer really need the mage armor, so I prefer to go with Repelling Blast. Especially in BG3 Early access where you can get Studded leather armor pretty early.

One Ability focus
The only ability you really want to max out is Charisma. This is because of Agonizing Blast. Having 20 in charisma means +5 on each of your Eldritch Blast damage rolls.
Beyond that you watn high Constitution to pass more concentration checks to maintain Hex, and dexterity to get a higher AC together with your Light Armor.


I find the Warlock to be a fun class in BG3, mostly because repelling blast has a lot of synergy with the mulit leveled design of the game, and feels really impactful when used.
Originally Posted by Kolat
In 5e, Warlocks can also deliver Eldritch Blast (effects/damage) through Weapons like Glaives and such.

Eh? No they can't, that was in 3.5.

In 5e you can get a Pact of the Blade pact gift, instead of the familiar, but that is completely independent (and mechanically inferior to using) Eldritch Blast.



Quote
Though Eldritch Blast, by level 5, will be doing 3d6 plus Cha to damage every hit so their damage does scale well IMO.

At level 5 Eldritch Blast (with agonising blast) should do 1d10+CHA bonus. But it should fire twice.

The one blast for 3d6 at level 5 (actually 1/2 your level round up) was from the 3.5 version rules. You can find them in NWN2.

Posted By: Shinshi Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 03/11/20 03:51 PM
Originally Posted by Imora DalSyn
You got repelling blast to do fall damage?


if you push someone down a ledge than yes, and there are alot of ledges
Posted By: Suasive Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 04/11/20 07:32 PM
Warlock actually feels quite powerful. They make an incredible party face due to innate CHA focus, and the Imp summon can both fly and has invisibility, making it the best scout in the entire game.

How to build a Warlock centers on their main cantrip, Eldritch blast. Just like in tabletop, you will cast this every single turn. There are two perks that improve this cantrip, one for damage, one for knockback. Taking both of these is very worthwhile as a powerful baseline for your character.

The other main spell you want to take is Hex. Hex improves your damage of your Eldritch Blast and has two important things that make it efficient. The first is that casting it is a bonus action, not a regular action, so you Hex your target and simply blast them. The second it that you can re-cast Hex for free as long as you don't lose concentration. So for this single spell slot you are getting an enormous amount of damage.

The nice thing about Warlock is that since damage is already covered by such a powerful cantrip, your other spells don't need to be damage-related at all. I really recommend Misty Step and Invisibility. Misty Step lets you escape or instantly position yourself on high ground, while Invisibility has incredible utility out of combat.
Posted By: Schugger Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 06/11/20 04:53 PM
Taking the medium armor feat is not a bad idead for Wyll. I have done it, raised his DEX to 14, equipped him with the +1 medium armor available at the sylvanus grove, added a shield to his equipment and he ends up with an AC of 18 or 19.
While eldritch Blast is a reliable source of damage, warlocks are just one trick ponies with just two spell slots. I find Gale much more versatile and he can't cast spells forever as there are so many scrolls to find and buy in this game.
On top of that Gale (or any Wizard) could take the Adept Warlock feat at level four and thus include Hex in his armament of spells. Ray of Frost (cantrip) with Hex deals 1D12 + 1D6 damage and you still have the flexilibility of a wizard.
Posted By: whalesecrets Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 10/11/20 02:19 AM
Oh...hex with magic missile? with the overpowered necklace that buffs magic missile? each missile does 2d4 + 1d6 and auto hits? I missed out on the Adept Warlock trick, good thinking.
Does anyone know how to put back the toggle for the repelling blast back on the quickbar? I chose the repelling blast for Wyll on his 2nd level and a toggle appeared on the right side of the quickbar. But upon levelling up again, this toggle disappeared and all of his eldritch blasts count count as repelling now, which is very annoying.
Posted By: DM_Judas Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 10/11/20 08:20 AM
Originally Posted by ash elemental
Does anyone know how to put back the toggle for the repelling blast back on the quickbar? I chose the repelling blast for Wyll on his 2nd level and a toggle appeared on the right side of the quickbar. But upon levelling up again, this toggle disappeared and all of his eldritch blasts count count as repelling now, which is very annoying.

Have you tried reloading the game?
Originally Posted by DM_Judas

Have you tried reloading the game?

I've reloaded few times. I think at this point I'll just wait for the next patch, because now Wyll's dialogue is not triggering properly. I coukd deal with the combat, but if his interactions are also bugged that's just disappointing.
Posted By: Nyanko Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 10/11/20 11:07 PM
Originally Posted by whalesecrets
I think the answer is tank, with his extra hp from his pact + plus the cold armor, plus the fire reaction, his job is just to run into the middle of the fight, keep his armor up and eat apples. Granted this is probably not true in 5e, but in BG3 DnD lite it seems to be.


Do the pact bonus HPs and the cold armor ones stack, I wonder?
Posted By: trengilly Re: How do you use Wyll? [or, Warlocks] - 11/11/20 07:33 PM
Warlock, while very powerful, I find is just too boring. Eldritch Blasting all day long just doesn't do it for me. In addition for Baldur's Gate 3 . . . since we already have a tadpole and all that relates to . . . I don't need to be dealing with being beholden to another otherworldly beingšŸ˜‰. And Wyll is my least favorite of the companions . . . his personality and backstory doesn't interest me much.
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