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Add 20 playable races and it will be fine.

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Originally Posted by Dustmen
So the easiest way for Larian to handle this is to put a row of cities or locations in the character builder where you can check off a box. Seeing as there are dozens of cities and thousands of villages on Toril, 'other' would definately have be one of those selections.

"Other" should certainly be in the list of available options.

Even better would be "Other —please write you place of origin here". The same way as you can freely write your name when creating your character. And with all the same implications : no NPC will voice it, but you can select dialogue options where the variables CHARNAME and PLACEOFORIGIN are replaced by what you selected at character creation.


Hoping we'll be able to create great assumptions-free Custom Characters and be given great roleplay options.
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What is reasonable in my opinion is explaining whatever homebrew changes Larian makes to the existing lore (such as the changes they made to ceremorphosis), and things an average Baldurian would not know. On principle, more expository dialogue is not bad either, but as was pointed out, when everyone is willing and able to give a lecture on whatever part of the setting they're connected to, it can come off very unnatural. It's something that has to be utilized with care.[/quote]

Sarah Who?

Good points!

I have stopped playing until its finished so I can better enjoy the game.

I may have to stop watching Sven's playthoroughs too...such a Metagamer!

Sven's character should be named Spoiler.


Hope they hire a writer who has the power to disagree with the current team, in order to balance and polish the narrative;...and perhaps...add a little mystery and intrigue to the mix.

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Originally Posted by Van'tal
Hope they hire a writer who has the power to disagree with the current team, in order to balance and polish the narrative;...and perhaps...add a little mystery and intrigue to the mix.

I highly doubt that will happen unless WotC actually appoints a writer to the team.

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Originally Posted by greathero999
Add 20 playable races and it will be fine.

Playable races don't make a story.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Im quite sure there will be some tag removal mod at least ...

You know, I'm getting really tired of this lame excuse for bad design. Oh don't worry about their terrible system, mods will fix this, mods will fix that. No accountability to the game designers at all with this.

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Originally Posted by Clivehusker
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Im quite sure there will be some tag removal mod at least ...

You know, I'm getting really tired of this lame excuse for bad design. Oh don't worry about their terrible system, mods will fix this, mods will fix that. No accountability to the game designers at all with this.

It's an extension of the "Lazy developers relying on patches down the road." solution; only, this time, the onus is on players/modders (i.e., consumers) to remedy the shortcoming.

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Originally Posted by Dustmen
So the easiest way for Larian to handle this is to put a row of cities or locations in the character builder where you can check off a box. Seeing as there are dozens of cities and thousands of villages on Toril, 'other' would definately have be one of those selections. I mean, not only could a character origin be Maztica, but it could literally be another prime material plane. or limbo even. It would likely depend on how important Larian felt your characters origin is, but since they seem to be the ones instigating this conversation with these tags...

If they set it up in the character generator, then the game could exclude tags that weren't relevent to your character such as Baldurian.

Where does that list stop? Toril is a big place, w/out taking extra-planar origins into account.

https://cdn.obsidianportal.com/map_images/262694/Toril_distorted.jpg

If someone's excluded, are we going to see more "lazy developer" posts/threads?

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Originally Posted by Ragitsu
Originally Posted by Clivehusker
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Im quite sure there will be some tag removal mod at least ...

You know, I'm getting really tired of this lame excuse for bad design. Oh don't worry about their terrible system, mods will fix this, mods will fix that. No accountability to the game designers at all with this.

It's an extension of the "Lazy developers relying on patches down the road." solution; only, this time, the onus is on players/modders (i.e., consumers) to remedy the shortcoming.

That is certainly one possible point of view ...
I would dare to say that in order for mods to "fix something" its suppose to be broken first.
This isnt, all required options are there allready ... just some people wants them to be presented differently ... wich is exactly what mods are for. :-/


Short coment on my English. smile

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Ragitsu
Originally Posted by Clivehusker
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Im quite sure there will be some tag removal mod at least ...

You know, I'm getting really tired of this lame excuse for bad design. Oh don't worry about their terrible system, mods will fix this, mods will fix that. No accountability to the game designers at all with this.

It's an extension of the "Lazy developers relying on patches down the road." solution; only, this time, the onus is on players/modders (i.e., consumers) to remedy the shortcoming.

That is certainly one possible point of view ...
I would dare to say that in order for mods to "fix something" its suppose to be broken first.
This isnt, all required options are there allready ... just some people wants them to be presented differently ... wich is exactly what mods are for. :-/

Yep: you're definitely on retainer.

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I haven't read all 8 pages, so sorry if I missed something crucial.

The world building starts with the question "What does Tav allready know when dropped from the ship." and then how to convey the most important bits to the player so the player is up to speed with what the character is supposed to know.

I agree with the OP in the sence that it feels like you are playing someone with total amnesia (and yets also not).

Digging round on youtube it appears that the city of elturel has been to hell and back, and that the refugees are an effect ofElturel having returned from hell/Avernus.

Stuff like that might be told in one fashion or another.

I also miss something I miss in the opening cinematic: a first person shot of running in that city (which was it actually) and getting nabbed: it's lacking that moment where you go from the world building exposition to zooming in on the protagonist afolling him/her. it just jumps from exposition to the character creator.

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I'll add to this that the dynamics with Shadowheart, followers of other deities, and exploring the temple of Selune also ring shallowly false because of this as well.

My druid/the druids and a priestess of Shar should (potentially) be immediately hostile toward one another, full stop. And they should 100% recognize each others' symbols, respond appropriately, and have banter or cutscene commentary on highly relevant areas. I think there *might* be a banter comment from Shadowheart when you first enter the Goblin Camp? Maybe? Contrast that with the extensive, confusing - BUT VERY HIGH POTENTIAL - scene with the desecrated altar to Selune behind the windmill.

We want the characters' roles and choices to mean something.

Volo's another example of this. I literally just wiped out an entire encampment of goblins at great risk to life and limb, yet the pompous ass starts chewing me out for looting their stuff? Are you kidding me? Is he brainwashed? Actually insane? Because we just had a conversation about him writing the grand story of the rescue and meeting him in Baldur's gate.


*Just started playing BG3 a few weeks back - Patch 7 - so give me a bit of grace if I'm repeating or missing anything from earlier versions.*
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Yorpo.

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Originally Posted by MyrddinDerwydd
...

My druid/the druids and a priestess of Shar should (potentially) be immediately hostile toward one another, full stop. And they should 100% recognize each others' symbols, respond appropriately, and have banter or cutscene commentary on highly relevant areas. I think there *might* be a banter comment from Shadowheart when you first enter the Goblin Camp? Maybe? Contrast that with the extensive, confusing - BUT VERY HIGH POTENTIAL - scene with the desecrated altar to Selune behind the windmill.

We want the characters' roles and choices to mean something.

...

To what symbols are you referring? Shadowheart surely knows the druids but she is actually undercover und would be quite an idiot to let the druids know her (allegedly) connection with Shar.

Generally I concur, I would like a sensible relation between the actors depending on their background, with individual room for decisions. Not all clerics or druids might be fundamentals for example. When I played as cleric, I actually avoided to take Selune as deity because I don't want to mess up too much with Shadowheart (meta knowledge, ok, bad it is) but I was a cleric of Tyr who did not take this good-bad stuff too seriously. The gods are far away, a bit dump and mostly kind of villains themselves, so your own matters matter more, don't they? wink

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One big problem for BG3 is that you are dropped in the middle of nowhere with no clear direction. The most effective way of worldbuilding is "show, don't tell" but BG3 has nothing to show.

Compare it to the Pathfinder games where you quickly get an overview about the part of the world.
Kingmaker: A kingdom close to civil war and a stretch of wilderness to be tamed.
Wrath: A demon portal and crusaders holding them back with a magic fence.

Compared to that you have no idea what is going on in BG3. You are in the middle of nowhere, there are squid people which want to transform you (the most clear part) and you need to get to a city to get the tadpole out. Except you don't as the tadpole is suddenly no threat anymore, there are devils everywhere and druids fight against goblins.

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Originally Posted by Ixal
One big problem for BG3 is that you are dropped in the middle of nowhere with no clear direction. The most effective way of worldbuilding is "show, don't tell" but BG3 has nothing to show.

Compare it to the Pathfinder games where you quickly get an overview about the part of the world.
Kingmaker: A kingdom close to civil war and a stretch of wilderness to be tamed.
Wrath: A demon portal and crusaders holding them back with a magic fence.

Compared to that you have no idea what is going on in BG3. You are in the middle of nowhere, there are squid people which want to transform you (the most clear part) and you need to get to a city to get the tadpole out. Except you don't as the tadpole is suddenly no threat anymore, there are devils everywhere and druids fight against goblins.

I've been thinking about this issue too, and I kinda grew into the idea that (i secretly wish) Larian will add a pre-prologue in the final release where we get the usual really basic , non combat, intro tutorial stuff right before being abducted in a more friendly or neutral non otherworldly setting (like an inn, home, street, room we were in when abducted). This would do help alleviate some of these random out of nowhere wtf is going on, who am I and where am I, moments you describe and which others have experienced too in terms of the narrative.


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I haven't read all 8 pages, but yeah, the OP makes a good point.

I am one of the people who never played the first two BG games. I did just pick the Enhanced Editions of them on GoG recently, but I've never played them.

Larian does quite well with detailing local areas, but it doesn't do so well at painting an overall picture of the world, and that's been pretty consistent through most of their games - not just BG 3. For instance in D:OS 2, walk around Driftwood and there's lots of people talking about Driftwood, lots of information about the local Driftwood scene... but the next town over has fallen into a fiery rift and I don't think many, maybe not even ANY people talk about that. I would expect that if the neighboring town had fallen into a hell pit, people in Driftwood would be talking about that a LOT, if only to be worried about their own town falling into a death crevasse.

Other plot points fall flat too because there is just too little information presented on the setting. For instance, Beast's story arc in Arx:

The queen of the Dwarves tries to wipe Arx off the map because of the Magisters. She sees that faction as a threat. But D:OS 2 doesn't explain the context well. What is the leadership of the human race? What is the political situation like that makes genocide seem like the best solution?

We don't know, the game doesn't provide much information about the political situation. The problem is that it's trying to hinge character stories and choices on geopolitical issues which the world doesn't provide sufficient information or context to give the player anything to latch on to.The lack of world-building information is a blind spot in the writing which Larian could do better at.

The screenshot from Pathfinder was a good example of a way to help alleviate the issue. I think some sort of codex with brief blurbs like the example would help a lot. Common knowledge should be there from the start, and more niche stuff could get unlocked as it comes up. It doesn't need to involve changes to spoken dialogue, but perhaps as certain things get mentioned, a little notification could pop up, something like: "[New/Updated] Codex entry: Waterdeep", for instance that players could freely ignore, or read if they really do want to know more. A lot of the lore already exists, which could save time creating it, although deciding what goes into the entry could be a lot of work, not to mention finding all points in conversations where things come up, so it would still be a significant amount of work.

Last edited by Stabbey; 16/04/22 02:38 PM. Reason: suggestion
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Originally Posted by Stabbey
The screenshot from Pathfinder was a good example of a way to help alleviate the issue. I think some sort of codex with brief blurbs like the example would help a lot. Common knowledge should be there from the start, and more niche stuff could get unlocked as it comes up. It doesn't need to involve changes to spoken dialogue, but perhaps as certain things get mentioned, a little notification could pop up, something like: "[New/Updated] Codex entry: Waterdeep", for instance that players could freely ignore, or read if they really do want to know more. A lot of the lore already exists, which could save time creating it, although deciding what goes into the entry could be a lot of work, not to mention finding all points in conversations where things come up, so it would still be a significant amount of work.

Yes, like a very minimal notification (with option to turn of in gameplay menu's off course) appearing when a new 'thing' is mentioned and added as a codex entry would be nice. Especially if they could integrate it with the sticky/hover tooltip thing. For instance 'waterdeep' is mentioned, you get the notification and either click T on 'waterdeep' in the dialogue or click the notification to get the codex entry for waterdeep pop up. With tooltip implementation, you could continue browsing the codex for terms you want more info on. Also please make it a nice looking codex, take inspiration from previous BG manuals or phb's to ensure there is enough 'flavour' to it , slap in some nice artwork in there too alongside some 'hints' regarding legendary items or other quest related stuff relevant to each entry. Preferably it reminds the player of a physical old codex and not some flashy 21st century wiki.


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To the OP, A big piece of it is just assumed knowledge. The whole Eltarel thing is literally the last module WotC put out for PnP DnD. Eltarel was dragged in to hell and the adventuring party starts in Baldur's Gate and eventually travels to hell to save the city and its people, all while figuring out how and why it was taken to Hell in the first place.

Now, I'm not saying this is a solution since I hate the laziness of dev's to rely on this approach, but you can always look up this info online and pretty easily find it. I would prefer an elegant ingame solution to this but atleast you can have something.

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