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Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by 1varangian
Being +2 Int instead of a fixed 17 would make the Headband of Intellect actually useful for a Wizard who is an Intelligence class
It would make it TOO useful, which is precisely the problem: it’s supposed to be an “entry level” magic item that looks absolutely amazing at first but turns so-so in the long run. Making it a flat + would make it amazing no matter what.

Still, +2 is far less than +9 when you go from 8 to 17. Dumping Int leaves you a lot of points to put into Str/Dex/Con which is the main source of OP here.

Could also be +1 Int because that one is damaged. Or +1 with a bonus spell slot or an Arcane Recovery type ability to make it relevant even if the +1 Int does nothing.

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Yeah, but the point that has already explained multiple times across the months is that this "+9" is applied mostly on character that will use INT as a secondary stat (where its benefits are vastly reduced) because no one who will have it as a primary will want to rely on it. Both because the native stat will climb even higher than that value (and bonuses don't stuck, so a mage with base INT at 12 and the circlet who will spend two stat points on int will go up to 14, not 20) AND because chances are they'll want special items that do more than just raising the base stat in that slot.

In case people forgot, there are supposed to be "stat setting items" that are even more powerful at higher level ranges. Chances are we will cross even stuff like "Belt of the giant" setting STR at 20+ or similar shit.
And yes, they ARE meant to be powerful. But you can't exactly call them game-breaking.

"Man, I could have made my warrior with STR at 8 if I know about that belt". But that would also mean: 1) going half of the game with a useless character 2) missing the chance to have a competent warrior AND another companion with an increased STR stat later on (i.e. a cleric or Paladin).



Also, worries about people "relying on knowing these items exist to plan their builds" are hilarious, because THAT'S EXACTLY THE POINT and one of the most entertaining things to do in these games in subsequent playthroughs after the first one: leveraging your knowledge of the game to take advantage of it as much as possible.

Last edited by Tuco; 13/01/22 12:38 PM.

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I wonder if anyone tested this Headband in combat, what bonus it gives?
Since if you wear it and try to make any Int roll ... it first take your own modififer (-1 if you dumped it, knowing about the Headband) and then it gives you +3 ... wich effectively means you only gets +2 ...

I wonder if it works the same in combat. O_o


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The headband does not add or subtract any bonus, so the starting value does not matter a single bit. It makes it so that your native INT is handled as a 18 when making rolls and checks.
Well, as a 17 now.


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Originally Posted by Tuco
The headband does not add or subtract any bonus, so the starting value does not matter a single bit. It makes it so that your native INT is handled as a 18 when making rolls and checks.
Well, as a 17 now.

that's how it SHOULD work, but I started a new playthrough yesterday, and in dialog Intelligence rolls, it actually depicts my -1 I have because I have 8 Int, and then, weirdly, a +4 from the Headband. It's really strange, and not how it should work.

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Some characters might not want to use the Headband at all, even if it was a full Headband of Intellect, which should put the Int value to 19, not 18. Especially not in BG3, where they have imported one of the old school rules; some helmets negate the critical damage bonus or carry other benefits.

This being a Mindflayer story, however, it will definitely see a lot of use in my parties to help with Int saves and make it less likely Intellect Devourers 2 shot my characters.


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Originally Posted by Sigi98
Originally Posted by Tuco
The headband does not add or subtract any bonus, so the starting value does not matter a single bit. It makes it so that your native INT is handled as a 18 when making rolls and checks.
Well, as a 17 now.

that's how it SHOULD work, but I started a new playthrough yesterday, and in dialog Intelligence rolls, it actually depicts my -1 I have because I have 8 Int, and then, weirdly, a +4 from the Headband. It's really strange, and not how it should work.

Yeah, I noticed that, too with my elf ranger. Obviously cheap hardware. I'll need to get it replaced with something more effective in the future. Probably only 10k gold anyway. If that. Hafling made, too. Bleh.

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Originally Posted by Sigi98
that's how it SHOULD work
Yup. ^_^

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 13/01/22 02:59 PM.

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Originally Posted by jfutral
Hafling made, too. Bleh.

Oi! I'd like to see you trusting a non-halfling made bag of holding with your valuables! Hmph.

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I don't see why people keep rbinging up EK. The best spells for EK don't get any benefit from intelligence. Shield and absorb elements for level 1. They don't exist in bg3 yet which makes EK a useless subclass. You're always better off using an attack instead of a spell for damage as an EK. Except if you really need to hit.. then you have magic missile which also doesn't care about your intelligence..

Even for wizards, thanks to the sapphire spark you don't really need intelligence in this game. MM is your best damage spell easily at level 1, then for level 2 spells you have Cloud of Daggers.. which does about the same amount of damage as the buffed MM but in an aoe instead of single target. So you're better off giving your wizard high dex and con, giving them a light crossbow to use instead of cantrip when they're out of spell slots, and just use the spells I mentioned above. - Also healing word and aid once you get the scrolls for them sicne you can cast cleric spells as a wizard in this game..

Last edited by Muldeh; 14/01/22 06:29 AM.
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Originally Posted by Topgoon
I think the game's explanation as to why it only sets to 17 instead of the 19 is the fact it's been damaged - i.e. "Warped Headband of Intellect".

Kinda how they justified removing damage reduction from Imps in the tutorial by calling them "lesser imps".

That wasn't actually a Larian idea. There are lesser imps in the AL module "Escape from Elturgard" and other lesser devils in the various T1 modules in that series.

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Originally Posted by Muldeh
I don't see why people keep rbinging up EK. The best spells for EK don't get any benefit from intelligence. Shield and absorb elements for level 1. They don't exist in bg3 yet which makes EK a useless subclass. You're always better off using an attack instead of a spell for damage as an EK. Except if you really need to hit.. then you have magic missile which also doesn't care about your intelligence..

Even for wizards, thanks to the sapphire spark you don't really need intelligence in this game. MM is your best damage spell easily at level 1, then for level 2 spells you have Cloud of Daggers.. which does about the same amount of damage as the buffed MM but in an aoe instead of single target. So you're better off giving your wizard high dex and con, giving them a light crossbow to use instead of cantrip when they're out of spell slots, and just use the spells I mentioned above. - Also healing word and aid once you get the scrolls for them sicne you can cast cleric spells as a wizard in this game..

The main reason, unless I'm mistaken, that EK are better of attacking instead of casting spells (aside from spell slots) is that you only get Extra Attacks if you take the Attack action.

As of yet, we don't know how extra attacks will be implemented. I personally, based on current implementation of Haste Attack and Bonus Action Attacks, think that Extra Attacks will be implemented as extra "action points" which the Fighter will be able to spend on any Actions of their choosing. If my hunch turns out to be correct, this means that the EK's "opportunity loss" from casting an Action-costing spell will be much lower, as they will be able to cast a spell and then use their remaining "action points" to attack, or vice versa.

It probably still won't be more useful than just all out attacking (especially because of spell slots), but it will be more powerful than book EK.


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Originally Posted by Muldeh
I don't see why people keep rbinging up EK. The best spells for EK don't get any benefit from intelligence. Shield and absorb elements for level 1. They don't exist in bg3 yet which makes EK a useless subclass. You're always better off using an attack instead of a spell for damage as an EK. Except if you really need to hit.. then you have magic missile which also doesn't care about your intelligence..
Not everything is about optimizing your PC's power or playing only the most powerful build available.

I for one would like to play a High Elf EK with high Intelligence and throw Fireballs and Scorching Rays that don't suck. And I'd like to benefit from the racial Intelligence rather than dump it and wear the same headband as every other EK in BG3 would.

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Originally Posted by 1varangian
Not everything is about optimizing your PC's power or playing only the most powerful build available.

I for one would like to play a High Elf EK with high Intelligence and throw Fireballs and Scorching Rays that don't suck. And I'd like to benefit from the racial Intelligence rather than dump it and wear the same headband as every other EK in BG3 would.

Okay, I think that's great.. but if you don't care about optimizing then why do you feel the need to take the headband of intellect if you don't want to?

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Originally Posted by Dexai
The main reason, unless I'm mistaken, that EK are better of attacking instead of casting spells (aside from spell slots) is that you only get Extra Attacks if you take the Attack action.

As of yet, we don't know how extra attacks will be implemented. I personally, based on current implementation of Haste Attack and Bonus Action Attacks, think that Extra Attacks will be implemented as extra "action points" which the Fighter will be able to spend on any Actions of their choosing. If my hunch turns out to be correct, this means that the EK's "opportunity loss" from casting an Action-costing spell will be much lower, as they will be able to cast a spell and then use their remaining "action points" to attack, or vice versa.

It probably still won't be more useful than just all out attacking (especially because of spell slots), but it will be more powerful than book EK.

That's a scary thought.. I honestly hadn't realized the potion of speed was so broken.. I have rarely ever used it because I never needed to and didn't want to waste it.

On the other hand.. that's potentially a nerf to extra attack for fighters since action surge would then only give one extra attack not two. Hmm.

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Originally Posted by Dexai
As of yet, we don't know how extra attacks will be implemented. I personally, based on current implementation of Haste Attack and Bonus Action Attacks, think that Extra Attacks will be implemented as extra "action points" which the Fighter will be able to spend on any Actions of their choosing. If my hunch turns out to be correct, this means that the EK's "opportunity loss" from casting an Action-costing spell will be much lower, as they will be able to cast a spell and then use their remaining "action points" to attack, or vice versa.

The extra attack is already partially implemented in the game files. From what I've been able to understand, it goes like this:
1. At level 5, you get a passive called 'Extra Attack'.
2. This passive procs once per turn when you attack something and gives you a hidden status buff that lasts 1 turn.
3. This status buff gives you a new kind of resource called 'ExtraActionPoint' and is removed after you attack something.

It doesn't look like anything uses this 'ExtraActionPoint' yet, but we can make guesses. Either the regular attacks will have their costs altered to "1 Action Point OR 1 Extra Action Point" (not sure if that's possible), or it'll be like with the bonus attacks from GWM, after using a regular attack you'll get a new attack "spell" on your hotbar that uses this new resource.

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Originally Posted by Muldeh
I don't see why people keep rbinging up EK. The best spells for EK don't get any benefit from intelligence. Shield and absorb elements for level 1. They don't exist in bg3 yet which makes EK a useless subclass. You're always better off using an attack instead of a spell for damage as an EK. Except if you really need to hit.. then you have magic missile which also doesn't care about your intelligence..

I am really enjoying using Lae’zel this time through as an Eldritch Knight for a change of pace. It gives her more variety instead of just “pound with sword” (not that I don’t enjoy that as well). I enjoy having someone on the front lines with a decent intelligence (from Headband of Intellect) that can decently use the Ring of Color Spray and touch range spells and scrolls. I suppose that I could still do that with her with items and scrolls as a Battlemaster with the Headband of Intellect, but then I feel as if I’m wasting an opportunity to use her Battlemaster skills. For me, making her an Eldritch Knight forces me to think differently about how she responds in different situations. I am enjoying it, which is the whole point.

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Originally Posted by smberg
I am really enjoying using Lae’zel this time through as an Eldritch Knight for a change of pace. It gives her more variety instead of just “pound with sword” (not that I don’t enjoy that as well). I enjoy having someone on the front lines with a decent intelligence (from Headband of Intellect) that can decently use the Ring of Color Spray and touch range spells and scrolls. I suppose that I could still do that with her with items and scrolls as a Battlemaster with the Headband of Intellect, but then I feel as if I’m wasting an opportunity to use her Battlemaster skills. For me, making her an Eldritch Knight forces me to think differently about how she responds in different situations. I am enjoying it, which is the whole point.

That's cool.. but color spray is equally effective regardless of your intelligence, and that ring grants it to any character who has the ring. Your point about it not feeling liek a wastesince you don't have battlemaster maneuvers which would normally be better just shows battlemaster is the better subclass.

You can play how you like, that's fine.. but my point is that headband of intellect isn't overpowered in baldurs gate 3 (at the moment - things may change by the end of EA or when it's released) because if you're making use of it, then you're not really playing optimal builds. It may make a bad build okay.. but it doesn't make a good build OP the same way items like sapphire spark and flinds flail do.

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You are correct on the Ring of Color Spray - it is a fixed HP that determines its effectiveness, not an intelligence based saving throw. I don’t know why I had that in my head the other way.

Eventually, I would really like my character to be a classic Fighter/Mage type. I always ended up there in BG1/2, either dual class or multi class. Not having played 5e tabletop, will a multi class fighter mage (after multiclass is implemented in BG3) be what I am looking for, or have the rules changed too much from 2e to 5e to get the same feel without missing out on too much optimization?

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Originally Posted by smberg
You are correct on the Ring of Color Spray - it is a fixed HP that determines its effectiveness, not an intelligence based saving throw. I don’t know why I had that in my head the other way.

Eventually, I would really like my character to be a classic Fighter/Mage type. I always ended up there in BG1/2, either dual class or multi class. Not having played 5e tabletop, will a multi class fighter mage (after multiclass is implemented in BG3) be what I am looking for, or have the rules changed too much from 2e to 5e to get the same feel without missing out on too much optimization?

If you are just looking for the "mechanical" feel of a fighter/mage dual or multiclass then blade pact warlock might be what you are looking for. Blade pact can get double attack at level 5 just like a fighter, but it is also a full caster (sort of, warlocks are a bit odd in 5e).

Alternatively, when bard is added they also get a full spell progression, and one of the subclasses gets double attack at lvl 5 (or 6, I forget) too. (Note that bards get the same spell progression as wizards and clerics in 5e, its not the half progression that they had in earlier versions... level 17 bards can cast lvl 9 spells, the advantage that mage gets over bard in that regard is a much larger selection of spells to choose from).

Either of those options would let you do both melee and magic without a multiclass.

Last edited by dwig; 14/01/22 05:59 PM.
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