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#805755 16/01/22 04:45 PM
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Mjiton Offline OP
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Different players, different play styles.

Damage is obviously important but playstyle is to me as well.
My favorite character has always been the Plate mail (in a game of magic items everywhere standard non-magical plate mail is afk)
Knight (fighter) welding a two-handed blunt weapon with reach for polearm-master (a feat not in the game), such as a lucerne hammer or a bec-de-corbin (also not in the game)
Standing stalwart at the point of attack. Stopping the enemy from advancing on the squishies. Sentinel feat (not in the game).

So as of right now the only aspect of my favorite character in your D&D based game is I can play a fighter.

I am left to assume you'll put basic armour in the game like plate mail.
I am left to assume you'll put the phb feats like PAM & Sentinel in.
But even in 5e you have to homebrew a lucerne hammer/bec-de-corbin

So I am making the suggest for it.

Even if you don't go the specified route. There honestly should be options. A one-handed metal-capped whip for a blunt reach weapon ala Castevania though not a polearm. Or a 3-section staff sanjiegun for a polearm. Just something.

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Originally Posted by Mjiton
Different players, different play styles.

Damage is obviously important but playstyle is to me as well.
My favorite character has always been the Plate mail (in a game of magic items everywhere standard non-magical plate mail is afk)
Knight (fighter) welding a two-handed blunt weapon with reach for polearm-master (a feat not in the game), such as a lucerne hammer or a bec-de-corbin (also not in the game)
Standing stalwart at the point of attack. Stopping the enemy from advancing on the squishies. Sentinel feat (not in the game).

So as of right now the only aspect of my favorite character in your D&D based game is I can play a fighter.

I am left to assume you'll put basic armour in the game like plate mail.
I am left to assume you'll put the phb feats like PAM & Sentinel in.
But even in 5e you have to homebrew a lucerne hammer/bec-de-corbin

So I am making the suggest for it.

Even if you don't go the specified route. There honestly should be options. A one-handed metal-capped whip for a blunt reach weapon ala Castevania though not a polearm. Or a 3-section staff sanjiegun for a polearm. Just something.

Not an attack here but what is your experience with 5e?

Plate armor is stronger than all of the magic armors currently in the game. In AL (Adventurer's League - WotC's organized DND play league) it is impossible to get plate before late tier 2 (around level 8, usually later).

As for feats, there are many not yet implemented and as we can only reach level 4, you can only get 1 anyway thus far so recreating a PAM/Sentinel fighter wouldn't be possible anyway with the lack of variant humans.

While I have seen a halberd and it doesn't appear they've even implemented the reach property, lucerne hammers and bec-de-corbin aren't even in the PHB so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on those. There are very few reach weapons in the PHB.

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Originally Posted by WebSpyder
Not an attack here but what is your experience with 5e?

Plate armor is stronger than all of the magic armors currently in the game. In AL (Adventurer's League - WotC's organized DND play league) it is impossible to get plate before late tier 2 (around level 8, usually later).
Not OP, but in most of my PnP 5e campaigns - both official modules and homebrew - Plate Mail is usually acquirable around levels 4-6, notably earlier than level 8. I agree with OP that Plate Armor (or at least Splint Armor) should be available in BG3, around the same time the 3rd tier of light/medium armors are. Plate Armor should be stronger than corresponding available versions of lighter armors.

Here's roughly how I think it should go (armor weights - light, medium, and heavy - are separated by |'s)
Level 1 ---- Tier 1: Leather Armor | Chain Shirt | Chain Mail - Dex modifiers of +3, +2, and n/a give total AC of 14, 15, and 16
Level 2-3 - Tier 2: Studded Leather | Scale/Breast | Splint -- Dex modifiers of +3, +2, and n/a give total AC of 15, 16, and 17
Level 4-6 - Tier 3: Studded Leather +1 | Half Plate | Plate -- Dex modifiers of +4, +2, and n/a give total AC of 17, 17, and 18
Level 7+: Increasingly magic versions of armors

Even if you don't agree with my exact level examples, in BG3 at level ~4-5 we can purchase both Studded Leather +1 and Scale Mail +1 (both are Tier 3 Armors in their weight category). And Half-Plate (again, Tier 3) is available from the start if you steal it from Lae'zel. Thus, it's only fair that we have the ability to acquire Plate Armor. AT THE VERY LEAST, we should have access to normal Splint Armor, either via merchant or findable while exploring/looting. But Larian seems to think that heavy armors should be reserved for mid-late game, which strongly nerfs str-fighters.

Either Larian should add more heavy armors to the game, or they should remove some of the more powerful available light/medium armors.

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Not OP, but in most of my PnP 5e campaigns - both official modules and homebrew - Plate Mail is usually acquirable around levels 4-6, notably earlier than level 8.

Homebrew perhaps but definitely not the official modules.

Not sure what tier system you're using but +1 light and medium armors are still tier 1 magic items. (I'm using the game's own tier definitions, T1 being level 1-4 of play).

We have early access to ring mail. I do agree we should at least have access to chain mail. By RAW fighters and life clerics should be able to have chain mail in their starting equipment. I can even agree that we should have access to split in the early stages of the game. There's zero reason we should have access to plate armor in the first 4 levels of play though.

As for "nerfing STR fighters" you're electing to ignore shields. Yes, you can go 2-handed for more damage and sacrifice AC, but your average sword and board fighter tends to have a better AC than an 18 DEX rogue in +1 studded leather. Even with what is currently in game, ring mail + shield is a 17 AC putting them on par with everyone else and still well-suited to the tank role with second wind.

Last edited by WebSpyder; 16/01/22 10:42 PM.
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Originally Posted by WebSpyder
Homebrew perhaps but definitely not the official modules.
Maybe not in the ones you played in, but again in my experience you can.
HotDG: At level 3 the party can gain ~2500 total gp from a dungeon, plus 250gp per player as a reward for finding [spoiler location] at level 2 and then 150gp per player for investigating said [location] at level 3. With a party of 4 this sums to 4100gp, easily enough to buy 2 Plate Armors is loot is shared. Unless your DM declares that "Plate Armor isn't available for purchasing" :\

Similar for LMoP and W:DH - you can get enough to buy Plate around levels 4-6. So yes definitely in at least some official modules you can get Plate Armor.

Originally Posted by WebSpyder
Not sure what tier system you're using but +1 light and medium armors are still tier 1 magic items. (I'm using the game's own tier definitions, T1 being level 1-4 of play).
These are tiers I made up, corresponding to the armor progression. Level 1 characters start with Leather / Chain Shirt / Chain Mail = "Tier 1," with each next step of armor increasing a tier. I admit this is confusing, given the official Adventuring Tiers of Play.

Edit: The fact that Larian includes Ring Mail in the game instead of Chain Mail really shows they don't understand D&D armor. I've literally never seen a player wear ring mail.

Edit to your edit:
Originally Posted by WebSpyder
As for "nerfing STR fighters" you're electing to ignore shields. Yes, you can go 2-handed for more damage and sacrifice AC, but your average sword and board fighter tends to have a better AC than an 18 DEX rogue in +1 studded leather. Even with what is currently in game, ring mail + shield is a 17 AC putting them on par with everyone else and still well-suited to the tank role with second wind.
Sure, I am ignoring shields. But to be fair, classes that make use of medium or light armor (clerics, fighters, and rangers in particular) can also use shields. So they can also get that +2 AC buff. A Dex fighter might want studded leather, a shield, and a rapier. And regardless of what other classes can get, a str-fighter without Plate Armor is less tanky than a fighter with it.

Last edited by mrfuji3; 16/01/22 11:09 PM.
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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
[quote=WebSpyder]But to be fair, classes that make use of medium or light armor (clerics, fighters, and rangers in particular) can also use shields. So they can also get that +2 AC buff. A Dex fighter might want studded leather, a shield, and a rapier. And regardless of what other classes can get, a str-fighter without Plate Armor is less tanky than a fighter with it.

And there are many classes who can't use a shield so hardly an accurate assessment to discount them. Most clerics will fall into the exact same boat as your STR fighters anyway. A fighter without +3 Plate is less tanky than a fighter with Plate... doesn't mean every fighter should have +3 Plate. That simply isn't a valid argument. While I agree with you that ring mail is pretty much trash and as I previously agreed, we should at least have access to if not the ability to start the game with chainmail, plate armor at this stage if the game is overkill. There is definitely some compromise room here between ring mail and plate where the heavy armors are concerned.

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While I don't necessarily agree that plate is necessary super early game-balance wise (I do like the aesthetic of plate more than chain for say, Paladins, so wouldn't be opposed to getting standard plate early for a 2h Paladin build once Paladin becomes available).

But re: availability in official modules, I started a Ghosts of Saltmarsh campaign (that didn't get past lvl 3 because scheduling conflicts), but we found plate mail in the basement of the haunted house, at level 2. Our DM was flabbergasted that there was a suit of plate in the basement that early. He hadn't looked to closely at that particular room while prepping for the session, so it came as as much a surprise for him as it did for us. My Maul-wielding Paladin was VERY pleased. So it can be available early in officially published stuff too.

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I don't get why they are withholding Breastplates, Half Plates (especially since Lae'zel already has one) and Plate Armor, and making Chain Mail and Splint Mail so difficult / late to get. All those armors are already in the game files, it's only a matter of making them available as loot or in stores.

Visually there's hardly any diversity or customization options. Looking at Scale Mail (+1) and Githyanki Half Plate got old 6 months ago.

And I'm still hoping for armor that looks more credible and utilitarian than the fancy looking decorative armor Fighters even start with (basic Scale). I'd love to wear Breastplates and Half-Plates but what I've seen from the datamining even a basic Breastplate looks like Victorian age fashion for kings and queens.

5e is a bit boring with armor too. Since the max Dex bonus is a flat modifier some armors are just made obsolete by others. And Medium Armor can't compete with Heavy Armor even if you have a very high Dex. I think Medium should at least match Heavy Armor if you invest in Dex as well. It's too clearly an "either Str OR Dex, but never both" kind of system. Hopefully they can address that in the next edition of D&D. Medium Armor Master a.k.a spending a feat just to break even with Plate Armor doesn't cut it when you already have Heavy Armor proficiency too.

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I'm not going to get into the armor debate, but I would also like to see a Lucerne or, especially, a Bec du Corbin.


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