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I mean, in all fairness it would be pretty fucking weird if we were finding many items that were "better than +1" at level FOUR.


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
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Sorry, but this PFH and new patch don't do anything to move the needle on the game for me. As I'm not playing the EA, new game content doesn't do anything for me. I wanted NEWS about the final version of the game, and the only thing I got on that was it will be 2023 when the game is released. This is mixed news for me. On the one hand, more time means better chance of the seriously bad stuff in the game right now possibly getting addressed. On the other hand, more of a chance that I (and likely others as well) will end up losing interest in this game.

As for the UI changes, again I don't get all the excitment. Yes it is a huge improvement over what was before, but that really isn't saying much given how bad the old UI was. I still very strongly feel Solasta's UI is soooooo much better.

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Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by 1varangian
Then the negatives:

Shove is still a Bonus Action and has a ridiculous distance. mad Now you can Shove/Frenzy Throw AND Throw the same target into lava or a pit on the same turn. If you fail that one hit kill attack, hey just try again! (I'm sick of this OP stuff that ruins combat).

Throwing goblins is cool but it seems more powerful than weapon attacks. A single throw did 8 points of damage to the goblin thrown AND the target for a total of 16 AND got rid of the one that was attacking the character. Larian throwing all balance in the wind again in favour of spamming the latest gimmick. It's really cool to be able to do that, and it's really lame at the same time for being OP and making normal weapon attacks redundant. They should contain their excitement and try to make things more balanced.
Agree. It seems that if you can throw enemy, it is simply a better option then hiting them with weapon. The only hope is that there will be a major balance patch before 1.0, though looking at D:OS games tactical depth isn't Larian's priority. I suppose they follow AAA design philosophy where "cool thing happens if you press this button" is far more valued, then a system with depth and mastery potential.
Some goblin throw had a 95% chance of success, some had a lower chance of success. Not sure how it works. 95% seems a lot more accurate than actual weapons.

Lae'zel can grab an imp with 95% chance and smash it into another with a 95% chance, killing both. Improvised Weapons shouldn't be better than actual weapons. Maybe you can Dip a goblin into a candle before attacking so both take 1d4 more fire damage.

Larian's implementation grants you two actions in one - both the grab and the throw or attack.

The UI is still messy I think. Everything is now on the same hotbar and you have to keep sorting it to find actions. I was having difficulties finding Jump now because I needed to filter "Bonus Actions" while exploring. I don't understand why they can't have permanent buttons for basic actions.

Last edited by 1varangian; 15/02/22 10:18 PM.
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LOOKS good. Love the look. UI, been waiting forever and hoping it's good. Barbarian? Yay! Finally! Now we just need Half-Orc to complete the Barbarian.

Throw? Yay! Throw distance?

...
........
.............

See Shoooove thread for more.

Also, did anyone notice that once again Attack of Opportunity is being slammed as a mechanic? Enemies get too close to a wizard? They're okay. You can just have a barbarian or strong friend shove AND throw. All clear. Wizard can now keep hurling fireballs instead of using Disengage to try to get away from being flanked by enemies. Argh! Do you know how terrible that's going to be with later levels - ESPECIALLY with only party of 4? It'll take at least 3 allies to maybe, hopefully convince a mage to Disengage instead of blasting you and your party with a high level ranged spell like Fireball.

But hey! We got some communication. At least we know the game won't be ready until like maybe October 2023 or later.

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Originally Posted by 1varangian
Maybe you can Dip a goblin into a candle before attacking so both take 1d4 more fire damage.

Hey, don't give them any ideas!

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Originally Posted by Tuco
I mean, in all fairness it would be pretty fucking weird if we were finding many items that were "better than +1" at level FOUR.

I'm obviously not asking for more than +1 items.
I'm asking for more + "various" damage or + "various" protection rather than mostly "+ strange thing /condition if you're doing another strange thing"

You know... things you couldn't decide between because they are all interesting rather than things you can't decide between because they are uninteresting, because they require very specific conditions or because you need to play a specific playstyle (with jumps all the time, in exemple).

Last edited by Maximuuus; 15/02/22 10:37 PM.
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I don't think we're going to get straightforward magic items that make sense.

These devs seem to think these myriad weird properties and conditions and the complexity for minor modifiers they bring make for good gameplay. There was a ton of these items already and they just took it to a whole new level with this patch. Reminds me of the same puzzle-like design they like to do with boss fights. I think this kind of item design is better suited for puzzle or platform games than D&D or RPG's in general.

I don't feel impressed by these magic items when I find them. I just feel confused at the unnecessarily complicated and nonsensical design.

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Actually, I don't see the reason for complaining about the possibility of throwing enemies. On the stream, a character with 17 strength was not even able to lift a character weighing 65 kg. Even with 27 strength , the throw range was mediocre at best.
I'm not exactly sure about the conversion rate, but unless something is a goblin or other small humanoid, throwing won't be very effective even at 20 strength.
Rather, I do not assume that after we leave the starting location, we will continue to fight goblins or other small humanoids. The farther in the game there are likely to be more drows, devils or other bigger enemies.

Another thing is that the chance of success itself doesn't seem terribly high either. It is worth remembering that rage gives an advantage in strength's checks (it should facilitate throwing enemies).
On a stream, even in active rage, the chance was quite low and amounted to around 65%.
The highest of what I have seen is 70% and this is only in the case of very light skeletons.

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Originally Posted by Rhobar121
Another thing is that the chance of success itself doesn't seem terribly high either. It is worth remembering that rage gives an advantage in strength's checks (it should facilitate throwing enemies).
On a stream, even in active rage, the chance was quite low and amounted to around 65%.
The highest of what I have seen is 70% and this is only in the case of very light skeletons.
The fact that the percentage chances don't change while raging is evidence that Throw is based on an attack roll, not a strength check. Which is it's own problem. But it also means that having Advantage on attacks - not that hard to get, and more easily obtainable for non-barbarian classes - will turn those 65-70% chances into 88-91% chances.

And more importantly, the % chance displayed is the chance to actually hit the enemy with the thrown enemy. It seems to be a 100% chance to pick up and throw an enemy. (basing on what I saw on Stream and @Niara's Throw Wizard investigations way back).

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Originally Posted by Drath Malorn
Semi-acknowledgement that 2023 is more to be expected, as far as the release date is concerned. (For those who are dying to play the full game, or at least know when it will be out.)

I am calling it now, BG3 will not be out until D&D's 50th anniversary in 2024.

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by Rhobar121
Another thing is that the chance of success itself doesn't seem terribly high either. It is worth remembering that rage gives an advantage in strength's checks (it should facilitate throwing enemies).
On a stream, even in active rage, the chance was quite low and amounted to around 65%.
The highest of what I have seen is 70% and this is only in the case of very light skeletons.
The fact that the percentage chances don't change while raging is evidence that Throw is based on an attack roll, not a strength check. Which is it's own problem. But it also means that having Advantage on attacks - not that hard to get, and more easily obtainable for non-barbarian classes - will turn those 65-70% chances into 88-91% chances.

And more importantly, the % chance displayed is the chance to actually hit the enemy with the thrown enemy. It seems to be a 100% chance to pick up and throw an enemy. (basing on what I saw on Stream and @Niara's Throw Wizard investigations way back).

I watched the stream again and in fact, when Swen tried to catch the goblin, it showed a 65% chance. This means that it is definitely not 100%. In practice, it looks like there are at least 2 checks (one to catch and the other to hit another enemy).
A little testing would be nice. Unfortunately, only on Thursday I will be able to start it. I bet, however, that the enemies roll athletics or acrobatics (probably both, depending on what is higher)

As I wrote in the previous post, the enemies weight limits the effectiveness of the throw quite significantly, which means that if the character does not have a really high strength (20 is probably not enough to throw an average humanoid at a reasonable distance), it is unlikely that it would be worth wasting your action.

Last edited by Rhobar121; 16/02/22 03:06 PM.
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Originally Posted by Rhobar121
I watched the stream again and in fact, when Swen tried to catch the goblin, it showed a 65% chance. This means that it is definitely not 100%. In practice, it looks like there are at least 2 checks (one to catch and the other to hit another enemy).
A little testing would be nice. Unfortunately, only on Thursday I will be able to start it. I bet, however, that the enemies roll athletics or acrobatics (probably both, depending on what is higher)
Importantly, "showing a 65% chance" does not actually mean there is a 65% to pick up and throw the enemy. That 65% chance could (and I argue, is) actually be showing the chance-to-hit that enemy with a thrown thing [whether object or creature]. It could be luck, but as I said elsewhere, none of the (4? 6?) throw attempts I saw failed. Only the actual hitting the target part ever failed.

Obviously more testing is warranted, and I want throwing to have a chance to fail. I've just seen no evidence of that as of yet.

Also, as you say in your previous post, the % chance-to-hit doesn't change while raged. Thus it is most likely an attack against AC -> enemies likely aren't rolling athletics or acrobatics.

Last edited by mrfuji3; 16/02/22 03:17 PM.
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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by Rhobar121
I watched the stream again and in fact, when Swen tried to catch the goblin, it showed a 65% chance. This means that it is definitely not 100%. In practice, it looks like there are at least 2 checks (one to catch and the other to hit another enemy).
A little testing would be nice. Unfortunately, only on Thursday I will be able to start it. I bet, however, that the enemies roll athletics or acrobatics (probably both, depending on what is higher)

As I wrote in the previous post, the enemies weight limits the effectiveness of the throw quite significantly, which means that if the character does not have a really high strength (20 is probably not enough to throw an average humanoid at a reasonable distance), it is unlikely that it would be worth wasting your action.
Importantly, "showing a 65% chance" does not actually mean there is a 65% to pick up and throw the enemy. That 65% chance could (and I argue, is) actually be showing the chance-to-hit that enemy with a thrown thing [whether object or creature]. It could be luck, but as I said elsewhere, none of the (4? 6?) throw attempts I saw failed. Only the actual hitting the target part ever failed.

Obviously more testing is warranted, and I want throwing to have a chance to fail. I've just seen no evidence of that as of yet.

This would be pointless as it would mean that the target is not making any saving throw.
If you look closely at the first goblins fight you will see that before Swen picked up a goblin it was 65% displayed and then when he tried to throw it at a spider he had a 60% chance to hit.
Most likely, they were lucky on the stream (they didn't use it that many times anyway).

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@Rhobar121 (and for anyone else who might be following this Barbarian conversation we're having), I responded in the Let's Talk Barbarian thread since we were getting very Barbarian & detail-focused, and we were already having a slightly different barbarian discussion in that thread.

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