Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Spell levels indication by icons on hotbar ... (horrible name for topic)

1varangian,

Do you have any idea how much effort it will cost to Larian to admit that someone else came up with a better design than theirs to get rid of all their glorified bars and do something like this?

I don't

Unfortunately Larian favours excess over elegance or practicality. It's funny real - good UI, like a good camera controls, is something one doesn't appreciate until it is taken away.

Quite honestly ... i dont. :-/

Inspire in functionality? Why not ...
But copy that horrible desing would be HUGE step backwards. :-/

That's a matter of opinion, innit?

It's perfectly functional, you can't argue that. Care to elaborate the "horrible" part?

That sounds also like a matter of opinion.

As for what i can or cannot argue ... truth be told i can no confrim, nor deny this statement since i dint play Solasta and i dont plan to do that.

I guess my reasons would be the same as what would 1vagarian say about BG-3 interface ...

It seems to me chaotic, messy, unpolished, it took me a while before i finaly find out those spell level categories and they still can be easily oversighted in my eyes, every spell icon seem to be too flashy and sparkling i dont like that either, and worse part of all (again to me obviously) i have ben told that Solasta sort your spells as the game wants ... wich is something i would never be able to accept.
Basicaly this ... you would need to specify your question.

But if you do, please aim it to my PM ... this isnt topic about why Solasta created best UI ever, but about indication of spell levels on icons.

The point is that a good functional D&D spell UI doesn't need that many icons.

The upcast spells becoming their own separate icons and spells is not a good design. A 13th level Wizard would have 7 identical looking icons of Magic Missile and every other 1st level spell. 6 versions of 2nd level spells, 5 versions of 3rd level spells...etc. quite a lot of icons.

And then the fact that D&D spellcasters constantly change their memorized selection of spells makes an auto placement on a hotbar in a whatever order a huge pain in the ass. I'm already constantly searching for my spells at level 4. If you have to constantly search a UI, it's bad.

No, it's not. Functionality and usability can be objectively measured:

• Amount of mouse clicks to complete a task. The spell tree on the screenshot opens with a single mouse click.
• Travel distance for mouse cursor. This increases drastically if you have to move cursor back and forth.
• Time it takes to place the cursor on the object. The smaller the object, the longer it takes - surprise! In Solasta, I didn't have to constantly squint and aim on my 27'' monitor - everything is big enough to see and read clearly, but not too big to take away the precious screen space.

... and probably many other criteria that I have no idea about, because I don't specialise in UI / UX, but rather on the opposite side of things. Still, 25 years in software development did give me some basic understanding of it.

The game has a tutorial which explains all these concepts.
AFAIR, Solasta sorts spells alphabetically. I was also surprised when my spells shifted after a levelup, but considering how "often" it happens, this is not really an issue. Besides, it doesn't really matter to me because spell icons are sufficiently big and colourful to immediately spot the one I need. This is a stark contrast with BG3, where spell icons are just some glyphs and all have the same background.

Ok ... lets offtopic for a while then:

Im willing to agree on statement it can be measured ...
But since person who will do that will have to come up with criteria, and every person will give other criteria different value, its not really objective.

It would be quite madness to not include such thing.

Yup and that is one of hugest problems for me.
As i said, i require ... maybe even demand my own sorting, i dont care wich is better ... i need it the way i would sort it, nothing else will do.
Feel free to think about it as my ... obsession.

Matter of personal prefferences in case.

To me BG-3 glyphs are perfectly recognizable from each other, since they have so different collors and shape ...
In Solasta where you see nig and collorful icons ... i see just some sparkly and shiny mess.

---

//Edit:
I dont think you need many icons ...

I mean in Solasta if you pick Magic Missile ... button for II. and III. level shows up ...
In BG-3 (now) if you pick Magic Missile ... buttons for I., II. and once we will reach level 5 III. level will show up ...

The system seems basicaly identical, the only difference is that in Solasta you just get some anonymous brown button with "II." on it ... here you get Magic Missile Icon with II. on it.

This isnt true for at least 3 patches, wich would make it (if im not wrong) aproximaely 3/4 year.
Since spells stared pop-up windows with spell level selection.

I can relate to this ...

And just exactly the same pain it would be for me, if hotbar would start automaticly sorting everything alphabeticaly without any option to turn that shit off. :-/

I dunno, when *i* change my spells, i usualy make it with some expected result in mind ... so i keep check on order i activate them, and i also see the hotbar so i can presume where shall i look for them to place them where i need them ...
But i gues where is no will, there is no advice. :-/

I cant agree with this statement ...

If "everyone" would have to constantly search in a UI ... then it would be bad.
But if "you" have to constantly search in a UI ... then there is quite good chance that you simply dont use it properly. :-/

You'd be surprised how many people need to search a UI. Personally, BG3's icons are so generic that they tend to blend in with eachother unless I'm looking right at the rune, and the differences between some of them are extremely subtle.
It might be my eyesight but I prefer the bigger UI and Icons of Solasta. I don't need a hotbar to use that UI, everything is clear on what does what.

Ragnarok,

Sounds like you have a perfect eyesight. Good for you, mate!

Mine is -3.5. The glasses I use have plastic lenses, so the amount of chromatic aberration is almost unbearable, unless I move my head so that the object I'm looking at is straight in front of my face. Without it, the entire world looks blurry for me. Having an astigmatism with 60 degrees axis doesn't help things, either - I can't use contact lenses because of it (or so I've been told by optometrists).

Are you really going to say that if you have no problems with distinguishing BG3's tiny glyphs, then it should be good enough for everyone? Really?

I thnk we've done here mate.

Seems almost like you are angry to me ... wonder why, i didnt gave you those eyes.

But basicaly yes ... in order to be completely honest with you, i do ...
Im aware that some people have health issues that makes certain things impossible for them ...
Just bcs there are people who gets motion sickness ... its not a reason to stop making first person games ...
Just bcs there are people who dont have hands ... its not a reason to force everyone to controll their games with feets (also there are people who dont have legs etiher ... what would we use to control then?)
Sad, i gues ... but not my problem, really ... sory but not sory. :-/

It dont change the fact that *i* find icons in BG-3 perfectly suitable for their purpose and recognizable from each other.
(maybe with some exceptions ... for example Piercing Strike and Piercing Shot are basicaly same)

Anyway ...
Many people are asking for some toggle to adjust size of UI, that should help you quite fine ... but once again, that is not purpose of this topic.

I totally agree to much that has been said:

Dammit, I really want a game that has the UI and game mechanics of Solasta and the graphic, size, player choices and environment interactions of BG3, of course with all classes and races, at least all PHB stuff.
Hallo proper reactions and ready actions.

I started BG3 again with patch7.
It is nice that the hotbar can now be sorted to actions, bonus actions, common actions, class abilities and so on. But the result is still infinities from perfect.
I created a barbarian and that was almost OK (rage was the only class ability).
But once I recruited Shadowheart the UI was a complete mess. In the class ability hotbar cantrips, spells and domain powers were just thrown randomly together. And this was only a lv1 char.

We need:
- Spells and other class abilities need to be in a separate menu.
- Spells need to be sorted by level (the minimum lv you can cast the spell).
- Each spell or ability should only be shown once.
- When you click on a spell you should see if you can upcast it or cast it again and you should be able do so without having another icon for the same spell.
- When you use a spell or ability it should be clear what resources are used and how much you have left (e.g. spell slots)

Dear Larian devs, please just copy the Solasta UI or make an own UI with at least the same functionality.
A hotbar with tons of icons as only way to select actions is not a solution, it is a complete mess.

Right now I play NWN2 again.
The quick spell menu there is one of the best things I have ever seen.
My spontanious caster can spontaniously select any spell with any meta magic with just one click.
Not like pathfinder where you have to memorize every combination spell+meta magic first.
I have not played a sorcerer in Solasta so far.

2 things:

1) I didnt notice even single sentence anyhow related to this topic... :-/

2)Please dont. -_-

You say the UI for spells is bad. I totally agree.

You say the spells should show their minimum spell level, not their maximum spell level.
I totally agree and I suggest spells should be sorted by spell level.