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Originally Posted by Dustmen
Okay, first, these names are garbage.

Then we have to ask where all these magical items are coming from, and why they are where they are.

Perhaps it should be pointed out to the devs exactly what page in the dungeon masters guide magical item creation is located (128-129), because they seem to think they're so common and so easy to make that enchanters would not only name these items frivolously, but invest the time, resources, and money into creating set items for very low level adventurers, and then losing them.

I applaud the desire to be creative, I think they should make a few magical items unique to the developer, but in the same vein, they should understand the in game creation process and rarity of the items they are feeding into the world.

Just becaue it only takes the devs fifteen minutes to code in a suit of frosty armor flakes or a sword kabob, doesn't mean they should, or that the rules allow it. If they didn't want to take this title seriously, they should have made DoS3.

Maybe unique magic items should come with a bit of lore that explains how and why they were made, and how they were lost. That could both make the items more special and tone down developers that are not fully in touch with the world in which their game in taking place.

Also, I think it would be good to find documents about rare magical items some time before you find them (although a description of a rare magical item should not be a guarantee that it is in the game), or some time after you find them.

At least this way developers will be forced to take more than fifteen minutes to put another magical item in the game, and to perform sanity checks.

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Well, in last PFH they told us that we will be able to learn whole story of those items, once we collect all those that belong together. O_o


Originally Posted by Ikke
enchanters would not only name these items frivolously, but invest the time, resources, and money into creating set items for very low level adventurers, and then losing them.
Naming is matter of taste ... not every sword must be named demonsbane, widowmaker, or peacebringer ... my gnome carry a dagger named Bunny Paw ... hoping it would bring her luck without needing to hurt any animal.

As for the rest ... why everything need to have any deep reason?
Is it so impossible in this world that some Wizard/Enchanter simply had an idea, and started creating low and therefore cheaper (even if not exactly cheap) items for research purposes ... wich either prooven to be useless, so he sold them for few coins, or were simply not expensive enough for him to care what happened to them after his research with them was completed? O_o

I mean we also didnt create nuclear reactor out of nothing ... there is allways some kind of progress. O_o


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I don't like the conditional items in general. Dash to get this effect or have this percentage of hit points for that effect. It's all too precious and contrived in my opinion. It feels less immersive than it does gamey.

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Since this is just the beginning at low levels, we will probably have characters sheathed in lightning / fire / acid gimmicks in no time. Probably more push and teleport items too since they are already pushed in EA below level 5.

This undermines everything that is cool about D&D and Forgotten Realms magic items and degenerates the game into a generic MMO style romp with flashy effects. And a constant shower of magical items with weird nonsensical properties just for the sake of having "more game" or creating an illusion of depth or choice.

The EA already goes too far. Magic items is something I would really like to remain as it is in D&D. Seriously, it's an RPG - focus on the story and stop filling the game with nonsensical fluff. I also enjoy combat from a mechanical standpoint much more without the magic junk.

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These items don't really have nonsensical properties since they're cursed items where the curse is something that relates to primary function of the magic items (i.e. the shield of missile attraction gives you resistance to ranged weapon attack damage but also causes ranged weapon attacks against any creatures within 10 feet to hit you instead). The curse effects are also fairly simple and make in-universe sense in a way that some of the convoluted patch 7 magic items aren't.

Compare the effects of the shield of missile attraction to something like "The Jolty Vest" or "The Speedy Lightfeet" and you'll see a pretty massive difference in how the magic items are designed. The former is an item that can conceivably make sense in-universe while the latter two items don't, are far too convoluted, and just don't feel like items in any edition of DnD with their weird conditional (status effect) requirements that feel artificial and "gamey".

If Larian wants to have items that become more powerful when used in a set, they should look at how BG2 handled it with the Hammer of Thunderbolts.
https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Hammer_of_Thunderbolts

"Alone, the Hammer of Thunderbolts is a powerful magical weapon but when merged with the gauntlets of ogre power and a girdle of giant strength the hammer is transformed. This transformation requires magical assistance. The Hammer of Thunderbolts is then capable of doing an additional +8 damage as well as instantly killing any giant or ogre that it strikes. "

The hammer gets stronger when used with the other specific relics but it's not completely useless without them either. It also doesn't generate "lightning charges" or "momentum" or any other weird purely mechanical status effects that make no sense in-universe. These sort of "set items" should also be rare as the vast majority of magic items should be standalone and should not require any other magic items to actually function.

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Originally Posted by ArcaneHobbit
The curse effects are also fairly simple and make in-universe sense in a way that some of the convoluted patch 7 magic items aren't.
I was hoping someone will say that ...

https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/5376-armor-of-vulnerability
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Amulet+of+the+Unworthy

I cant unsee some similarity here ... O_o
And yet, one is perfectly okey ... and other one is often repeated as example of bad item ... curious, isnt it?

Originally Posted by ArcaneHobbit
are far too convoluted, and just don't feel like items in any edition of DnD with their weird conditional (status effect) requirements that feel artificial and "gamey".
Feel free to corect me, but as far as i know, every single magical item is "artificial" ... they dont grow themselves. laugh

What exactly is so "non DnD" about conditions?

Originally Posted by ArcaneHobbit
If Larian wants to have items that become more powerful when used in a set
I think (feel free to read it as "i hope") they actualy dont ...
There are certain items that works well together and unlock new level of potential ... but "set" is completely different topic after all.

Originally Posted by ArcaneHobbit
It also doesn't generate "lightning charges" or "momentum" or any other weird purely mechanical status effects that make no sense in-universe.
What does more sense?

Item that just improve your natural abilities without anything else needed, bcs "its magic" ...
Or item that use residual energies from actions to re-use them?

Its rhetoric question. smile
We clearly have different prefferences. laugh

Originally Posted by ArcaneHobbit
These sort of "set items" should also be rare as the vast majority of magic items should be standalone and should not require any other magic items to actually function.
As far as i know most items is able to work on their own ... just not at good.
There are exceptions tho, im aware ... for example that Lightning shield does nothing on it own (if i remember it corectly) ... but you have several possible ways to provide charges for it.

Rarity is a problem ...
I know there is "many" magical items allready, and yet its not enough ... since often i find out that none of them is fitting my character, or only one is fitting my build ... that is also not well experience. :-/


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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
I was hoping someone will say that ...

https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/5376-armor-of-vulnerability
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Amulet+of+the+Unworthy

I cant unsee some similarity here ... O_o
And yet, one is perfectly okey ... and other one is often repeated as example of bad item ... curious, isnt it?
IIRC I don't think anyone's said the amulet of the unworthy is a bad item. Personally, I think it's a pretty good magic item since it makes sense in-universe (it's made from a fragment of the girdle of the unworthy from SoD and as such has similar effects) and it's effects make enough sense. I actually don't have an issue with most of the magic items here in BG3, I just think the ones added in patch 7 that use weird "charge" based mechanics are terrible.

Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Feel free to corect me, but as far as i know, every single magical item is "artificial" ... they dont grow themselves. laugh

What exactly is so "non DnD" about conditions?

The issue with these conditions is that they're purely mechanical and feel very artificial and "gamey". As such no one in the actual world of the Forgotten Realms would create items like these. Compare something like the boots of speed to BG3's linebreaker boots:

"While you wear these boots, you can use a bonus Action and click the boots' heels together. If you do, the boots double your walking speed, and any creature that makes an opportunity Attack against you has disadvantage on the Attack roll. If you click your heels together again, you end the Effect."

"When the wearer dashes or takes a similar action during combat they gain Wrath for 3 turns."

One of these makes actual sense in-universe (boots of speed make you faster and the other effects are mechanical ways of abstracting the side effects of this increase in speed) and as such is the type of item that someone might conceivably make. The other item only makes sense in the context of the abstraction that is DnD combat and uses a weird status effect that doesn't make any sense (what is wrath actually supposed to be in-universe?).

Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
What does more sense?

Item that just improve your natural abilities without anything else needed, bcs "its magic" ...
Or item that use residual energies from actions to re-use them?

Its rhetoric question. smile
We clearly have different prefferences. laugh
The thing is there's nothing particularly magical about swinging a sword or dashing. These are fairly mundane actions.

Think about it this way, what do Wrath, Lightning Charges, and Momentum actually represent in-universe; nothing. The only reason they exist is to serve as purely mechanical status effects to be used by these weapons and otherwise they don't represent any physical thing. This is one of the reason why people don't like these sort of items, because since their effects are purely mechanical they feel "gamey" and "unrealistic" which is fairly different from how magic items typically are in DnD.

Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
As far as i know most items is able to work on their own ... just not at good.
There are exceptions tho, im aware ... for example that Lightning shield does nothing on it own (if i remember it corectly) ... but you have several possible ways to provide charges for it.

Rarity is a problem ...
I know there is "many" magical items allready, and yet its not enough ... since often i find out that none of them is fitting my character, or only one is fitting my build ... that is also not well experience. :-/

Some of these items actually don't do anything without a way to generate their charges and so are not standalone. Take The Lifebringer circlet which gives 3 temp HP when you gain a lightning charge. If you have no way of getting charges (you don't have any other lightning set items equipped) it's functionally useless. Keep in mind that these charges are just gimmicks related to a specific set of items and are not game-wide mechanics (like spell slots) and so there's no guarantee that you'll be using anything that generates charges.

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Originally Posted by ArcaneHobbit
The issue with these conditions is that they're purely mechanical and feel very artificial and "gamey". As such no one in the actual world of the Forgotten Realms would create items like these. Compare something like the boots of speed to BG3's linebreaker boots:

"While you wear these boots, you can use a bonus Action and click the boots' heels together. If you do, the boots double your walking speed, and any creature that makes an opportunity Attack against you has disadvantage on the Attack roll. If you click your heels together again, you end the Effect."

"When the wearer dashes or takes a similar action during combat they gain Wrath for 3 turns."

One of these makes actual sense in-universe (boots of speed make you faster and the other effects are mechanical ways of abstracting the side effects of this increase in speed) and as such is the type of item that someone might conceivably make. The other item only makes sense in the context of the abstraction that is DnD combat and uses a weird status effect that doesn't make any sense (what is wrath actually supposed to be in-universe?).
Well put. And as others have said, it doesn't really make sense that someone would enchant an entire set of equipment that is reliant on a single source of gaining "charges." Maaaaybe it can be understood as being pseudo-battery powered, but then I feel like the "battery" would be a consumable and not attached to swinging specific weapons. Like, if you're going to go through the trouble of enchanting items, just create normal +1 armor?? Or a +1 sword that deals an extra 1d8 lightning damage on a crit. And really? Naming said equipment "The Sparky Points" or "The Protecty Sparkswall" (*sigh*)??

Also, item sets in general are often blegh imo. By the time you acquire the full set, you're probably finding and/or able to buy better armor. And it's just disappointing when you find a cool piece of equipment, but then have to give up your full-equipment-set-bonus to put it on (usually ~very soon after you've just found the full set).

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Comparing cursed items to normal magic items is completely irrelevant here.

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It's not that I don't understand your frustration - I just don't share in it. I've been playing TTG for nearly two decades now and can honestly express delight at the creativity they are showing with the universe.

Sure, some of the item names are kinda cheesy. However isn't D&D itself kinda cheesy?

As for the apparent abundance of magical items, its a non-issue to everything except a strict adherence to the PHB.

We have had some truly FANTASTIC games created strictly by the D&D handbook in regards to loot. The original BG: Dark Alliance? Some of my favorite couch co-op memories that my brother and I ever shared with a rental from BlockBuster.
But that game was a dungeon crawling, Diablo derived - albeit - "beat-em-up." It hung on to just the right amount of elements from the TTG that we as players loved, but made use of a new combat/party system that was:

1: Affordable to the Devs at the time of production.
2: PROFITABLE to the studio based on the current trends circa early 00's.

Say what you want about what "real ttg players" want and expect from this studio, but they create these items in EA based on community feedback and market research data. The goal is to have the most successful game possible that caters to crowds who've enjoyed D&D for years or even those who have never had the chance to sit at the table. And if ANY newbie can sit through the massive list of sh*t that D&D flings at you to learn, I think us as veterans can make do with learning some new stuff ourselves - even if it isn't exactly PHB solid (more adjacent?).

I wouldn't want anyone to think this is a dig at how you feel as a traditionalist, but this isn't Disney murdering Star Wars. The lore isn't set in stone and the game can take the form of anything that the creator produces for the player.
I'll hop off the soapbox now with a brief paraphrase from the PHB we can all respect - "DM's Word is Absolute." We don't always adore everything that our Dungeon Master creates for us, but don't we all love playing it anyway?

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I thought there'd be more magic items in patch 8. Things specifically tailored to the bard, perhaps. There's the hat, of course, but that's the only one I know about.

It makes me wonder if they held back on the magic items because of the poor reception they got from the earlier patch items. I suspect there aren't many people using some of these items, and that their data shows as much.

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Originally Posted by JandK
I thought there'd be more magic items in patch 8. Things specifically tailored to the bard, perhaps. There's the hat, of course, but that's the only one I know about.

It makes me wonder if they held back on the magic items because of the poor reception they got from the earlier patch items. I suspect there aren't many people using some of these items, and that their data shows as much.

Most of the items were bugged though, especially ones obtained in the Underdark and Grymforge.

The new lighting items are pretty good on Rogues though or Rangers, as they can stack those lighting charges like crazy. Rogues especially ^^

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Originally Posted by Crimsomrider
Originally Posted by JandK
I thought there'd be more magic items in patch 8. Things specifically tailored to the bard, perhaps. There's the hat, of course, but that's the only one I know about.

It makes me wonder if they held back on the magic items because of the poor reception they got from the earlier patch items. I suspect there aren't many people using some of these items, and that their data shows as much.

Most of the items were bugged though, especially ones obtained in the Underdark and Grymforge.

The new lighting items are pretty good on Rogues though or Rangers, as they can stack those lighting charges like crazy. Rogues especially ^^

I agree that some of the items are effective. Some. Certainly not all, not by any stretch.

But in regards to the ones that are effective, I'm still not sure they're popular. Effective doesn't necessarily translate to enjoyable. I suspect there are a lot of players who understand how the items work, but don't want to use them, largely because they don't want to change up their playstyle by dashing before attacking or because they don't want to walk around with lowered hit points or just because they don't want to bother with cumbersome, conditional items of the sort that were introduced.

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Just to raise an issue I had in my last playtrough.
I had so many items with wierd condition on every characters to fill slots that a lot of time I just didn't understood why I get a heal, a second BA, a damage bonus or an electrified status and so on...

I think I've said to myself "idk, it's probably because of an equiped item" more than 10 times.

Equipment management is more overwhelming than fun with all these conditions and special effects. Keep it simple and get inspired by DnD on this one please.

My bard would welcome one more bardic inspiration / long rest when she wear the new hat near Alfira's spot as much ( if not more because that's his class main feature) as a 1D6 healing everytime he gives a bardic dice. All bards are not foccused on healing but they're all foccused on bardic dices.
Just an exemple, of course.

I think Larian should foccus on an equipment meant to enhance the classes and the players choices of builds rather than on creating repetitive and sometimes nonsense gameplay mechanics hidden in our characters equipment.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 15/07/22 11:47 PM.

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If Larian wants me use magic items, they should add items that fit D&D and Faerûn rather than items that would be suited to a D:OS game. The DMG has plenty of items that could be used and are (relatively) balanced, but most of all items that make sense in the context of the setting.

In general though, I think there are way too many magic items already. I'm fine with scrolls and some potions being readily available, but other items should never be handed out like candy.

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Originally Posted by Kendaric
In general though, I think there are way too many magic items already. I'm fine with scrolls and some potions being readily available, but other items should never be handed out like candy.

Well, there needs to be a variety. It would suck, for instance, if the only magic sword available was a long sword.

Having options means different builds have an opportunity to shine.

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Originally Posted by Dustmen
Perhaps it should be pointed out to the devs exactly what page in the dungeon masters guide magical item creation is located (128-129), because they seem to think they're so common and so easy to make that enchanters would not only name these items frivolously, but invest the time, resources, and money into creating set items for very low level adventurers, and then losing them.

They don't care who they make them for - they care how much they pay. You get some spoiled brat noble who wants to go waste his family's money going out adventuring and paying for a +5 set of blank of invisibility - they will do it if the little brat can pay for it. Hopefully he is smart enough to not get killed by goblins wearing +5 armor.

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Originally Posted by JandK
Originally Posted by Kendaric
In general though, I think there are way too many magic items already. I'm fine with scrolls and some potions being readily available, but other items should never be handed out like candy.

Well, there needs to be a variety. It would suck, for instance, if the only magic sword available was a long sword.

Having options means different builds have an opportunity to shine.

Within reason, sure.

Magic items should generally only be given as a reward for an accomplishment, like overcoming the hag (who would naturally have multiple magic items in her possession) or achieving certain quest goals (such as receiving the locket from Arabella's mother for rescuing Arabella from Kagha's judgement). That way items feel meaningful, even though they aren't particularly powerful.

That being said... I'm totally fine with having +1 weapons or armor of each type being available for sale, for instance. Just not everywhere and certainly not right from the start and definitely no higher than +1.

Last edited by Kendaric; 16/07/22 11:13 AM.
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Originally Posted by JandK
Originally Posted by Kendaric
In general though, I think there are way too many magic items already. I'm fine with scrolls and some potions being readily available, but other items should never be handed out like candy.

Well, there needs to be a variety. It would suck, for instance, if the only magic sword available was a long sword.

Having options means different builds have an opportunity to shine.
I actually think less variety in the early levels can be great.

Let's say the first actual +1 magic weapon you get is the Sorrow, and you don't find any common weapons like Longsword +1 or Greatsword +1 yet. The fighter of the party picks up the Polearm Master feat at level 4 because of this weapon. That itself is a story, how the Druids gave it to her as a gift after rescuing Halsin and saving the Grove, and how she learned to master it. (And lets remove that 1dmg per hit from Sorrow. It's so crippling no one will ever use this flavorful weapon. It's enough to have flavor text of "emitting sorrow" on the weapon. Not every detail has to be underlined with clumsy mechanical properties. Sometimes it can just be story and flavor to evoke imagination).

If every PC in the party is loaded with +1 weapons and a bunch of weird conditional items, the coolness and uniqueness of a weapon like Sorrow that has a story is lost in the noise of Sparky Sparkslippers and Protecty Head-Helmets with "if you Jump and Dash on the same turn, you get a Lightning Charge and Disengage against Large Creatures".

If you get an even distribution of magic weapons of all sorts, magic items are no longer a story. It's just gear. You don't make choices based on the items, you get items based on your preference. Magic items are not special anymore, they're mundane. Larian are quickly progressing towards making magic items mundane in BG3.

And at higher levels everyone will obviously have all sorts of magic gear anyway. It would be good to separate the low levels where you are starved of items and the high levels where you do have choice. That's one contributor to making your character feel like they have progressed. And even at high levels, choice should still exist between +2 this or +3 that, instead of getting everything you want at +3, conveniently from vendors. If you give players everything they want, magic items become mundane gear again. If you don't give players everything they want, you keep alive the thrill of adventuring and finding that awesome weapon in the next dungeon. You should never buy your best gear from vendors. If it's so amazing, why would anyone sell it in the first place?

Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Just to raise an issue I had in my last playtrough.
I had so many items with wierd condition on every characters to fill slots that a lot of time I just didn't understood why I get a heal, a second BA, a damage bonus or an electrified status and so on...

I think I've said to myself "idk, it's probably because of an equiped item" more than 10 times.

Equipment management is more overwhelming than fun with all these conditions and special effects. Keep it simple and get inspired by DnD on this one please.
I also find this conditional magic fluff distracting and completely unnecessary.

Wierd illogical micro-modifiers from items is not a good way to make tactical combat have more choice. Instead of these silly items, Larian should be focusing much more on battleground design and teamwork between PC's. Those aspects are universal and not depending on clever properties from gear. Combat locations in BG3 have only high ground, when they could also have terrain for cover and choke points for defenders to hold. In fact they are actively pulling the rug from under such tactical depth by making enemies ultra-mobile with added ranged weapons and bombs, compared to 5e. They could have implemented stuff like Shove Prone so that two PC's could team up to take down a high AC target. But instead, every combat encounter revolves only around taking the high ground and/or using some OP exploits. And with bosses like Spider and Grym, solving a very obvious puzzle.

Last edited by 1varangian; 16/07/22 10:52 AM.
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