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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by 1varangian
D&D has never been about gimmicky items like "when you jump make a thunder AoE" or "when you heal pull target 3m" or "when below 50% HP get +1 Persuasion checks against medium size Oozes".
And now it is ...

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
- Sussur's weapons are blue, but exactly the same as the green +1 weapons.
I have seen this statement few times from you ...
And i keep wondering why do you ignore their silencing effect that prevents casting for one turn. O_o

Originally Posted by Maximuuus
- Mourning Frost is "legendary" and it's a good weapon but not an extraordinary one.
Nope its rare since patch 7.


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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
- Sussur's weapons are blue, but exactly the same as the green +1 weapons.
I have seen this statement few times from you ...
And i keep wondering why do you ignore their silencing effect that prevents casting for one turn. O_o

Originally Posted by Maximuuus
- Mourning Frost is "legendary" and it's a good weapon but not an extraordinary one.
Nope its rare since patch 7.

Because it's not what the tooltip say in my patch 7 playthrough when my mouse is on Sussur Dagger (It's now a green weapon rather than a blue one).
But I tried and it looks like you're right. The tooltip is absolutely confusing.

You're also right about Mourning Frost, I didn't re-checked in game and Fextralife is definitely not up to date.

Sword of Justice is now green too but is "better" than a green +1 greatsword (same damage and %to hit bonus + defensive spell as a second bonus).
Sussur is finally a +1 weapon that also have another bonus but it's as green as a +1 dagger.

Looks like they have changed a few colors but it does not change the message. The color code still doesn't make any sense.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 08/03/22 07:56 AM.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Fextralife is definitely not up to date.
Yeah its pissing me off aswell. :-/

But quite honestly they never were ...
Since patch 2 or 3 i believe they claim that Quarterstaves are versatile. -_-


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Originally Posted by 1varangian
Originally Posted by fallenj
Originally Posted by 1varangian
I don't want D&D to turn into making a "Lightning build" or a "Momentum build" to get a crazy movement rate by stacking similar items. I prefer just wearing Boots of Speed which are powerful and special and wielding a Staff of Thunder and Lightning.

Building sets from an abundance of magical junk is entirely different from a Necromancer Wizard collecting a set of legendary Vecna artifacts. Or a Fighter collecting Balduran's items.

The more magic items there will be, the weirder, more gimmicky and less impressive they become.

And the names are getting too ridiculous when these gimmicky items are being mass produced.

Been like that since 3.5, my group used to power build back in the day trying to tailor there character as far as they could go. It's not "mmo" its just a style of game play.

D&D has never been about gimmicky items like "when you jump make a thunder AoE" or "when you heal pull target 3m" or "when below 50% HP get +1 Persuasion checks against medium size Oozes".

They've also completely flooded the game with new conditions with minor effects. I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. BG3 is heavily homebrewed and the homebrew is a very clear departure from the spirit of 5e, and every edition before it.

No it has been in d&d, specifically 4e, first magic item in phb2:

Agile Resolve Vestments
goes from +1 to +6
Armor: cloth
Enhancement: AC
Property: while you are bloodied (half health if i remember correctly) gain +2 item bonus to Reflex.

here's another that actually does something:

Luring Withdrawal Armor
goes from +1 to +6
armor: leather, chain
Ehancement: ac
Power (daily): Immediate reaction (interrupt). trigger an enemy misses you with a melee attack.
effect: you shift 1 square (non AOO move) and slide (move) the triggering enemy into the space you vacated.

4e had this crap for sure, now out of 4e ya, it usually was just basic passives, artifacts is when it got weird, at least that's what it was called in 3.5

Last edited by fallenj; 08/03/22 12:13 PM.
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Originally Posted by fallenj
Originally Posted by 1varangian
Originally Posted by fallenj
Originally Posted by 1varangian
I don't want D&D to turn into making a "Lightning build" or a "Momentum build" to get a crazy movement rate by stacking similar items. I prefer just wearing Boots of Speed which are powerful and special and wielding a Staff of Thunder and Lightning.

Building sets from an abundance of magical junk is entirely different from a Necromancer Wizard collecting a set of legendary Vecna artifacts. Or a Fighter collecting Balduran's items.

The more magic items there will be, the weirder, more gimmicky and less impressive they become.

And the names are getting too ridiculous when these gimmicky items are being mass produced.

Been like that since 3.5, my group used to power build back in the day trying to tailor there character as far as they could go. It's not "mmo" its just a style of game play.

D&D has never been about gimmicky items like "when you jump make a thunder AoE" or "when you heal pull target 3m" or "when below 50% HP get +1 Persuasion checks against medium size Oozes".

They've also completely flooded the game with new conditions with minor effects. I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. BG3 is heavily homebrewed and the homebrew is a very clear departure from the spirit of 5e, and every edition before it.

No it has been in d&d, specifically 4e, first magic item in phb2:

Agile Resolve Vestments
goes from +1 to +6
Armor: cloth
Enhancement: AC
Property: while you are bloodied (half health if i remember correctly) gain +2 item bonus to Reflex.

here's another that actually does something:

Luring Withdrawal Armor
goes from +1 to +6
armor: leather, chain
Ehancement: ac
Power (daily): Immediate reaction (interrupt). trigger an enemy misses you with a melee attack.
effect: you shift 1 square (non AOO move) and slide (move) the triggering enemy into the space you vacated.

4e had this crap for sure, now out of 4e ya, it usually was just basic passives, artifacts is when it got weird, at least that's what it was called in 3.5

4e is - essentially - the MMORPG edition of D&D, so...that's not surprising.

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@Ragitsu

lol, never say never

and no, it was more of a card game than anything. Figured out the easiest way when I played that edition was to print all the abilities and items out like cards. Sleeve them in a solid mtg sleeve and flip them over when used.

Last edited by fallenj; 08/03/22 01:01 PM.
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I hate to see anything even vaguely reminiscent of that edition back in 5e or a 5e-inspired game.

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Originally Posted by Ragitsu
I hate to see anything even vaguely reminiscent of that edition back in 5e or a 5e-inspired game.

sorry to tell you but they used some elements of 4e in 5e, had a convo with another person on here about it. Off the top of my head I think it was rituals, don't quote me on that.

BTW did you play 4e?

Last edited by fallenj; 08/03/22 11:02 PM.
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Well, to be brutally honest here, as long as the reviews on Steam and GoG are positive, Larian is going to assume that most of the player base approve of the changes. This goes for pretty much anything, so if your unhappy, revisit your review. If the reviews start trending negative, Larian might start taking the forums seriously.

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Or ... we can act like adults and accept that our role here is to provide opinions and let Larian process them the way they want ... instead force our vision for any cost. :-/


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Quote
Larian,
Your game is absolutely great! It looks fantastic!

Although, you shouldn't have called it DnD, or BG3 for that matter.

Still, it's a great game!

Not DnD though.
Something like that?

Don't worry, Larian is not a company that can be easily swayed by feedback. More like the opposite. Which means, if something is indeed wrong, we'll have to shout about it on all corners to be heard, let alone being paid any attention to.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Or ... we can act like adults and accept that our role here is to provide opinions and let Larian process them the way they want ... instead force our vision for any cost. :-/

That sounds so passive and defeatist to me. Better to go down fighting then pleading for mercy.

Honestly, the people that we should be complaining to is WotC. We should be on their forums bitching that this game we were assured would be a 5E D&D RPG is anything but.

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Originally Posted by Dustmen
Honestly, the people that we should be complaining to is WotC. We should be on their forums bitching that this game we were assured would be a 5E D&D RPG is anything but.
100% with you on this one, except they seem to shut down their forums some 6 years ago.

Not sure about it, but targeting their official Twitter might be a viable strategy. Or whatever people do now to attract attention of a particular twitter account. Review-bombing on Steam and (especially) GOG might pay out, too. I say "especially" because the game has noticeably fewer reviews on GOG, so a bunch of 1-stars will make a bigger impact there.

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Originally Posted by Dustmen
That sounds so passive
That is hardly surprising. smile

I would say that if one approach seems too agresive ... and another one too pasive ...
The best one would lay somewhere in the middle. wink


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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Dustmen
That sounds so passive
That is hardly surprising. smile

I would say that if one approach seems too agresive ... and another one too pasive ...
The best one would lay somewhere in the middle. wink

Beware of the Golden Mean fallacy.

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Dont you have anything better to do?
And i mean anything ... drugs, russian roulette, breeding of extremely poisonous snakes without any protection?

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 12/03/22 06:42 AM.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Dont you have anything better to do?
And i mean anything ... drugs, russian roulette, breeding of extremely poisonous snakes without any protection?

Hello there, Pot; you may call me Kettle.

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Originally Posted by Dustmen
Well, to be brutally honest here, as long as the reviews on Steam and GoG are positive, Larian is going to assume that most of the player base approve of the changes. This goes for pretty much anything, so if your unhappy, revisit your review. If the reviews start trending negative, Larian might start taking the forums seriously.

That's exactly the point. Most reviews are positive, because all BG3 players are videogamers ( by definition ), while relatively few play TT D&D ( I don't, for example ).

The 5e rules are exactly what TT players wanted them to be, due to significant consultation after the blowback from the drastic 4e changes. But since the rejected 4e rules were designed to align better with videogame norms, that also means that 5e rules are less well suited to creating an appealing videogame for those that don't play TT.

Most of the changes Larian are making seem to be aimed at increasing the tempo of combat rounds, and increasing the impact of what a player can do when it's their turn, which is in line with what most people buying the game will probably prefer. I really hope that when the game is finally released there is a "strict" D&D mode for the TT players that want it, but I entirely understand why that is not the mode used for Early Access testing, since it is a minority preference.

Anyone that doesn't like what Larian are doing should still give direct and indirect feedback so that they know there are dissenters to consider, but no-one should expect their comments to necessarily result in change, particularly to the one/only game mode in Early Access.

Feedback is also likely to be more impactful if rendered politely, lucidly and logically, which seems to be beyond some people at times.

Last edited by etonbears; 12/03/22 08:31 PM. Reason: Spelling
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Originally Posted by etonbears
Originally Posted by Dustmen
Well, to be brutally honest here, as long as the reviews on Steam and GoG are positive, Larian is going to assume that most of the player base approve of the changes. This goes for pretty much anything, so if your unhappy, revisit your review. If the reviews start trending negative, Larian might start taking the forums seriously.

That's exactly the point. Most reviews are positive, because all BG3 players are videogamers ( by definition ), while relatively few play TT D&D ( I don't, for example ).

The 5e rules are exactly what TT players wanted them to be, due to significant consultation after the blowback from the drastic 4e changes. But since the rejected 4e rules were designed to align better with videogame norms, that also means that 5e rules are less well suited to creating an appealing videogame for those that don't play TT.

Most of the changes Larian are making seem to be aimed at increasing the tempo of combat rounds, and increasing the impact of what a player can do when it's their turn, which is in line with what most people buying the game will probably prefer. I really hope that when the game is finally released there is a "strict" D&D mode for the TT players that want it, but I entirely understand why that is not the mode used for Early Access testing, since it is a minority preference.

Anyone that doesn't like what Larian are doing should still give direct and indirect feedback so that they know there are dissenters to consider, but no-one should expect their comments to necessarily result in change, particularly to the one/only game mode in Early Access.

Feedback is also likely to be more impactful if rendered politely, lucidly and logically, which seems to be beyone some people at times.

I, being a TT DM, totally disagree with you on many points. 5e is simpler and far more better suited for video games. There are many TT players out here playing BG3, and we want more 5e implemented because 5e is balanced and fun. It can easily be adapted for a video game but Larian is chucking a lot of it, at least presently even though it can and has, by Solasta, been implemented well. (Though even Solasta could have done it better.)

I have an app that can do almost everything for 5e for you, simplifying everything, so I know it can be done. The only thing the app is missing is graphic representation of characters on game maps. Then it would be an awesome video game. Larian could do this same thing, but they are refusing to because they don't want to. Simple as that. They want to make BG3 like DOS, not D&D. At least, that's what it seems.

Classes are virtually stripped of their uniqueness in BG3, and everything is weird and extreme because they have mostly deviated from TT. It's a mess and the main issue I have with the game. Rogues aren't special because anyone can rogue, clerics aren't needed because anyone can heal, wizards aren't special because anyone can cast spells with scrolls and such, and fighters aren't needed because weapons give any characters special melee and ranged combat maneuvers. Monsters don't act like they should with teleporting phase spiders who have super spit poison surfaces, and anyone can shove anyone 30+ feet off a ledge and into lava. It's insane.

I enjoy the game. Love it actually, but it would be SO much better with a bit more 5e and a bit less homebrew gimmick nonsense.

Last edited by GM4Him; 12/03/22 05:17 PM.
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