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Originally Posted by Aaezil
Longtime tabletop D&D player here. It depends on the personality and player-type that you are with but most DMs i’ve played under prioritize things like story, pacing and having fun over slavishly following any rule books. At least all of the great DMs in my opinion operate this way. It even says so in all the DM books.

There is something to this, yes. Slavishly following the rules can bog the game down and even cause issues, turning the game into something not fun.

That said, there is an extreme as well. Start veering too much from the rules and the game becomes too imbalanced and ruins it. Also, players tend to like it when they legit win; not winning because a DM fudged the rules and made it so they win no matter how they play.

The real challenge of a good DM is to find that perfect balance between playing by the rules and tweaking them.

Taking away feats would make ASI boring, IMO with absolutely no other options to make your characters more special. I think MORE feat options would be better, options that would make taking a feat a real temptation over ASI.

Think higher levels. If I create a barbarian with 17 Strength, and at level 4 give him ASI +2 Strength. Now he's 19. At level 8, ASI again, but now 20 is max. So, 1 goes to Strength. Then ASI what? Constitution or Dex maybe? Okay. That's fine. Level 12. Do it again. No real deviation or variation. All characters who are fighters/barbarians, you'll probably do the exact same thing. No difference between Lae'zel and your fighter. Both pretty close to same stats.

However, with more feats, Lae'zel might take Great Weapon Master while my custom fighter might choose dual wielding and wield to battle-axes effectively in combat with +1 AC. Or maybe my fighter will do Shield Master and shove enemies as a Bonus rather than Action (like it should be instead of everyone shoving as bonus). Whatever. The point is, you can with feats have different characters even of the same class with unique abilities instead of just always building up the same stats every 4 levels.

More feats that are more effective, is what I think is needed.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Cantila
You might take ASI at lvl 4 but at lvl 8 you probably want a feat as that stat increase will give diminishing returns compared to a feat the higher level you are.
And we probably will when the game will be out properly ...

Now we are talking about testing purposes ... you know, the think Early Acess is (at least officialy) ment for? laugh

Thats why i dont even think we can talk about any kind of "progression" since there isnt any. laugh
You kill whole tutorial > level 2 ... you kill Intellect devourers > level 3 ... 2 more combats ... and whole "progresion" is done. laugh

Basicaly we allready wasted year and half of potential testing for something we had the whole time, bcs we simply didnt have statistic to even think about it. :-/
If i didnt watch Wolfheart video, where he was talking SPECIFICALY about feats ... i would not even know that Great Weapon Mastery curently dont even work. :-/


Nowhere in your OP did you say your change should apply to the EA only. I don't see the point of that either. Why test something that's not intended to be a feature on release? If you want to test feats you can already do that at level 4? Testing it at level 1 is pointless, what purpose would it serve that level 4 doesn't fulfil?

Last edited by Cantila; 03/03/22 12:45 PM.
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@GM4Him that is something I totally agree with.

Last edited by Cantila; 01/03/22 07:22 PM.
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Originally Posted by Cantila
Nowhere in your OP did you say your change should apply to the EA only.
No ... but there also isnt even single mention of Feats for level 1 is it? :P

Cant shake the feelin you didnt read it very carefully. :-/

That was just suggested by someone else a little later. :P
And since it would be fiting my intention, i see no problem for supporting it.

Originally Posted by Cantila
Why test something that's not intended to be a feature on release?
Feats are not suppose to be feature on release?
Rolled stats that were multiple times promised are not suppose to be a feature on release?
Variant human that is frequently requested ... ok, this one might not be ...

Originally Posted by Cantila
If you want to test feats you can already do that at level 4?
Well ... i gues i "could" test something simmilar ...

I can test and see how effective (or working), would curently provided feats be for characters with bad statistics and unfinished ... how did you call it? Progression ... true.
Question is what value would such testing have ...

I mean if you only have +2 from your strength ... and you take feat that gives you -5 ... making your hit modifier effectively -3 ... is it really surprising that you are missing as hell? laugh

On the other hand, IF you would get Rolled Stats, and/or Variant human ... you would be able to test the same feat with +5(for rolled) or +4(from Variant) ...
Wich surprise surprise, will be MUCH closer to statistic you will have on level 8 ... wich is exactly the time when you ACTUALY will most likely take Feat. :P
That is what i would call testing that have some value. smile


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Feats, at level 4, especially when you're not building toward a specific later game build (like sentinel fighter), are simply pointless. This is true on paper as well. We are currently operating in a fishbowl that seriously de-values feats.

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The ONLY reason people I've known don't pick feats:

1. They are lazy and just want to do the easy thing and go with ASI. No thinking involved. Easy and done.
2. It makes sense to. Either they are at 15 and 17 with certain attributes and they want them to be 16 and 18, or something similar. Serious buff to states especially if two Abilities are getting a bump like this.
3. They don't even know what feats are out there, and they're not sure there are any that will actually fit their character. This kinda goes along with 1. People typically don't bother to see what's being offered because it's too much work, so they don't want to look into it and see what there is to offer that could make their character unique and more interesting.
4. Fun and interesting feats aren't being offered. Depending on the source materials you are working with, you may only have a handful of boring feats that don't appeal to the players.

So it all really boils down to two things: 1. It's easier to ASI or there aren't fun feats being offered.

I think both of these apply to BG3 right now. There are only a few feats that really appeal at all, and even those aren't THAT appealing.

And why?

Many are stripped of their value by homebrew rules. So, here again, we're back to the homebrew devaluing things. Again, one of the coolest things about Shield Mastery is the ability to push people as a Bonus Action with your shield. You gain other buffs, but pushing via Bonus Action is part of what makes it appealing. Suddenly, you can attack and shove in the same turn.

But BG3 makes Shove a Bonus Action already, so they stripped it of one of its best abilities and made it unappealing at all.

And what about feats like Crossbow Expert? Not in the game. Why? Because the feat allows you to ignore loading of crossbows - not in the game so makes the feat pointless - and if you are within 5 feet of a hostile creature it doesn't impose a disadvantage on your ranged attack roll. Oh! That might be cool, but honestly, would you use it? You can do two weapon fighting with light weapons and probably do more damage anyway. The only other thing it does is when you use an Attack action and attack with a one handed weapon, you can use a bonus action to attack with a hand crossbow you are holding. So, swing with sword and shoot with hand crossbow. Kinda cool, but does it apply to how a hand crossbow is used in BG3 already? Meh. Not really. I mean. Kinda maybe.

But still, this feat doesn't exist, which is a really cool feat for those who love crossbows, because most of the mechanics are already stripped from it in BG3. Thus, the feat is boring and pointless.

Over and over I'm beating a dead horse here, but I'm trying to point out each time Larian's ignoring the basic rules negates the value of things in D&D 5e. We wouldn't be having this conversation if there wasn't a bunch of homebrew that negates the value of a lot of feats and special abilities. People would want to pick more feats because they would provide players with a more tantalizing appeal.

Oh, and here's one that goes right along with Barbarian. Instead of making everyone able to pick up and throw things well and so forth if they have enough Strength, why not Tavern Brawler at Level 4. Suddenly, Tavern Brawler feat, if they included it, would be SO much more valuable.

Why? Because in order to throw well, you'd need this feat. It increases either Strength or Constitution by 1, it makes you proficient with both improvised weapons and unarmed strikes - both of which you should need to Grapple and Throw - your unarmed strikes would do 1d4 damage instead of 1d3, And when you hit a creature with an unarmed strike or an improvised weapon on your turn, you can use a bonus action to attempt to grapple the target. A grapple check is a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the target's Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acorbatics) check.

So, THIS is what you should need to Throw enemies. Then you wouldn't have everyone throwing, including enemies, and it would make taking a feat like this enticing and special. Suddenly, more people would want to take Tavern Brawler because they'd like the idea of their fighter or barbarian being able to use improvised weapons well and unarmed strikes and picking up and throwing and so forth.

But, again, they make it so everyone can do it, so having a feat for it is really pointless.

THAT, my friends, is why feats in BG3 are lame and unappealing and why many are saying they just ASI. There's almost nothing appealing about feats in this game.

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I play with a few mods that effect feats. More Feats, Feats Extra, and Background Feats. The first 2 add many of the feats that are currently missing; like Polearm Master, Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert, and Elven Accuracy. The last 1 allows for all characters to select a feat as part of their background. Sadly though, these are custom backgrounds with no choice of their skills. I also use the Custom Lineage mod (Race mod, +2 to an Ability & a Feat), and Expansion (which allows level up to 6th). With these mods, I can have a 6th level Fighter with Great Weapon Master, Polearm Master, and an ASI. Or a Sorcerer with Fey Touched and an ASI. Or a Ranger with Duel Wield and an ASI. So I use feats in almost every playthrough.

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I like using feats and use them a lot in actual dnd.
In BG3 I'm using them less often as some powerful ones are missing or nerfed, but there are still a few that can be worth using:
- weapon master on Astarion so he can use heavy crossbows
- magic initiate: warlock to get hex on characters that can hit multiple times per turn
- moderately armoured on warlocks or rogues

Some early game feats that I like to use in DnD that are not in BG3 yet:
- lucky, which allows you to reroll a skill check, saving throw or attack roll 3 times per day (in DnD you can't use inspiration to reroll)
- healer, which allows you to get a character who is making death saves back on his feet (currently everyone can do that without a feat, and unlike the feat you don't even need to use a healers kit consumable)
- inspiring leader, which allows you to give everyone temporary HP
- polearm master, which gets you opportunity attacks against enemies that enter your reach as well as allowing you to use your bonus action to attack with the blunt end of your weapon
- sentinel, which allows you use opportunity attacks even when the enemy uses disengage and if you hit someone with an opportunity attack, they can't move for the rest of the turn
- sharpshooter, which allows you to use the full distance of your ranged weapon without disadvantage (e.g. 400ft for a heavy crossbow, 600ft for a long bow) as well as ignoring partial cover (which doesn't really exist in BG3)
- spell sniper, which doubles the range of all spells that involve an attack roll, allows you to ignore partial cover and allows you to learn an attack cantrip from any class
- war caster, which allows you to cast spells while you have a weapon or shield in both of your hands (currently everyone can do that without a feat), gets you advantage on concentration saving throws and allows you to cast spells as opportunity attack

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
<snip>
Many are stripped of their value by homebrew rules. So, here again, we're back to the homebrew devaluing things.
<snip>
But, again, they make it so everyone can do it, so having a feat for it is really pointless.

THAT, my friends, is why feats in BG3 are lame and unappealing and why many are saying they just ASI. There's almost nothing appealing about feats in this game.

Soooo much this.

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Many missing...They should have a Feat coding day or two or...

Must haves: (personal preference)

Polarm Master

Duel wielding equivalent for reach weapons (extra attack bonus action)...and its your main hand weapon (adds your proficiency bonus/pact weapon).

will often give another attack (reaction) for anything that comes within 10 feet of you...two extra attacks is Awesome for melee.

Elvin accuracy for crit fishing builds (This is very popular).

What is not to love about Half-elf? Oh yea...they haven't added the "No Variant" option yet (two extra skills of choice)...they should make time for this.
Just make all current Half-elf models available and add unique models latter if they want to (Easy Peasy).

Very Popular:

Sentinal is a favorite for tanking.

Alert

Lucky (Top pick for many)

Resilient

War Caster

Others that are maybe irrelevant in this system:

Observant

Actor

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And feats that give EXPERTISE! Man! We NEED expertise in the game. Rogues and Bards need it, and if players really want their characters to be experts in various skills, they need the feats that can give them this... Like Skill Expert.

Want a barbarian who is really good at Shoving and Throwing? Skill Expert (provided they nerf Shove and Throw which they need to do for all characters who aren't Expert Athletes).

Want a cleric who's an expert in Medicine? Skill Expert, but again, only really important if Medicine is required to stabilize characters.

Last edited by GM4Him; 05/03/22 04:16 PM.
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+ attribs and the one that gives you pushing attack are the only feats i’ve found worth selecting so far. kind of a shame.

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What about Potent Cantrip???
[Linked Image from pics.me.me]


STILL WAITING FOR NEW COMPANION AND CUSTOM PARTY WITHOUT MULTIPLAYER.
BECAUSE WHY FUCKING NOT???
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Originally Posted by smberg
Another related question is… who ever takes Human? Anytime I roll up a Human, I end up switching to Half Elf because it’s just so much better without any downside. I really would like Variant Human to be implemented so that I would have a reason to be Human. Having an extra Feat and Skill at character creation would be really appealing.

Human is the only race that can start with 16 in strength, constitution, and dexterity. Its very niche, but that gives human barbarian 16 AC naked without sacrificing the +3 mod to strength. I don't think its worth the bad night vision, but it IS a tiny advantage that you can only get from Human.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
And feats that give EXPERTISE! Man! We NEED expertise in the game. Rogues and Bards need it, and if players really want their characters to be experts in various skills, they need the feats that can give them this... Like Skill Expert.

Want a barbarian who is really good at Shoving and Throwing? Skill Expert (provided they nerf Shove and Throw which they need to do for all characters who aren't Expert Athletes).

Want a cleric who's an expert in Medicine? Skill Expert, but again, only really important if Medicine is required to stabilize characters.


I am quite sure they haven't coded it yet (expertise). My evidence is that moders have had a hard time with simple things like Elvin accuracy.

I have mentioned it in other posts, but for the sake of relevance, The More Feats mod at nexus is spot on for Polearm Master and many others.
I have this on both my barbarian and Lai'zel.

Beside the extra attack, the opportunity attack that occurs when enemies encroach into your weapons range on their turn (within 10' for Glaive, Pike, and Poleaxe), is procing all the time.

Keep in mind that we will have dice roll for attributes at launch. For the heck of it, Last week I used this to roll my stats. method: (roll 4 six-sided dice and drop the lowest).

https://www.wizards.com/dnd/dice/dice.htm

I rolled !8,15,15,14,13,12 on my first try.

Since my main stat will be high, and my supporting stats look nice; I will feel good about taking a feat at 4.

Maybe Just me, but Half-Elf with versatility is just too good to pass up in a game that rewards skill checks.

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