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My main problem with current EA is that it feels super pointless and super limiting and super hard once you leave Silvanus Grove. I feel like some of the areas and interaction after that would feel much more rewarding if you can go fight specific characters at level 5 and beyond.

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No one besides Larian knows if they are going to level cap the various acts, personally I hope not... that said ALL of the fights are doable at lvl 4 you just have to get rather creative with some of them.

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I doubt there will be a level cap after EA. Honestly, the Underdark will be more appropriately balanced with Level 5 and 6, and with the amount of experience you can get on the surface alone, you should be at least Level 5 if you didn't just go straight to the Underdark.

Besides, you'll have two paths; Underdark or Cursed Land. So there's lots to do after the original area. If you can gain enough XP to hot at least level 5 by either Underdark or Cursed Land, then they'd have to lift the cap.

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Well ... in previous PFH Swen told us that they didnt decided yet if level 5 will be part of Act 1 ... mind the wording "Act 1" not "Early Acess" ...
So there is quite safe to presume there will be some kind of (at least soft) level cap in final release ...

But he also said that if people keep asking, maybe one day they do that ...
Hard to say if he was just sarcastic, or if that was hint for some future update.

Personaly i would not expect level 5 sooner than with last implemented class (more likely next patch after that). But can be wrong ofc.


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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Well ... in previous PFH Swen told us that they didnt decided yet if level 5 will be part of Act 1 ... mind the wording "Act 1" not "Early Acess" ...
So there is quite safe to presume there will be some kind of (at least soft) level cap in final release ...

But he also said that if people keep asking, maybe one day they do that ...
Hard to say if he was just sarcastic, or if that was hint for some future update.

Personaly i would not expect level 5 sooner than with last implemented class (more likely next patch after that). But can be wrong ofc.

I hope they don't cap it once the game leaves EA... because if they do I can tell you right now there will be certain side quests I skip entirely and just simply go to Act II. Capping the Level (especially at 4) per act will cause players to stop exploring and simply move ahead, thus possibly never playing certain content (like I will probably skip out on helping Mayrena every single time if I am capped at lvl 4, because there is no reason for me the player to do that fight without the XP motivation as the reward for that quest is lackluster)and really I am sure Larian doesn't want to dump resources in to making content people don't simply because they go "Oh, I have hit lvl cap I may as well move on." If I am Larian (or at least part of the creative team) I would want to do everything to encourage people to explore side stories/quests and options rather than bulldoze through the main story skipping all the side stuff and there is quite alot of side stuff to do that you would miss just by playing where the main quest line(s) lead you and you will still easily hit level 4 before the end of Act 1... If I am correct you'd hit lvl 4 WAY before the end of act 1 as I don't think Grymforge is quite the end of Act 1 in its etirety.

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They have to - not really but if intelligent - lift the level cap. I can currently reach level 5 cap WAY before the end of EA. Makes no sense to cap at 4.

Plus, the Underdark makes way more sense at Level 5 or higher. They need to lift the cap and unnerf the enemies in the Underdark.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Well ... in previous PFH Swen told us that they didnt decided yet if level 5 will be part of Act 1 ... mind the wording "Act 1" not "Early Acess" ...
So there is quite safe to presume there will be some kind of (at least soft) level cap in final release ...
But he replied that when asked about level5 in Early Access. So who knows what exactly he meant.

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And here I'm again trying to understand from where people got this idea that there will be hard level caps per Act on full release. I can't even remember a game that would have such stupid feature.

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Originally Posted by CMK
because if they do I can tell you right now there will be certain side quests I skip entirely
Quite honestly ... i believe that might be the point. laugh

I mean look at what do we know by now ...
If you side with Halsin, he urges you to approach Moonrise Towers from Underdark ...
If you side with Minthara, she tells you about Mountain Path ...
And if you decide to side with Lae'zel, she urges you to screw them both and go to Githyanki ... wich leads to yet another "portal" out of the zone, straight to the Shadowlands ...

Now we dont know if those three enter points (Lift from Grymforge, Shadowlands next to Githyanki Patrol and Mountain Pass next to the Goblin camp) are leading to three separate maps ... just as Grymforge is ... or if they are separate enterpoints for the same place ... just as Underdark is ...
Personaly i bet for second option.

But as it seems right now, if you will follow one of the abowe mentioned routes (Halsin / Minthara / Lae'zel) you would most likely be led to skip the other two.
I mean, sure there is nothing stoping you to explore it all (as far as we know right now) but if Halsin urges you to go through the Underdark, why would you travel to Mountain pass? laugh

So there is (and i would say quite fair) possibility that they actualy DO want us to follow certain path, wich would mean skipping the rest.
(Aka leave it for another playthrough)

But ofc, there is other way we can understand it ... and that would be that any and every path will be deadend, forcing us effectively to travel through them all. laugh


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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by CMK
because if they do I can tell you right now there will be certain side quests I skip entirely
Quite honestly ... i believe that might be the point. laugh

I mean look at what do we know by now ...
If you side with Halsin, he urges you to approach Moonrise Towers from Underdark ...
If you side with Minthara, she tells you about Mountain Path ...
And if you decide to side with Lae'zel, she urges you to screw them both and go to Githyanki ... wich leads to yet another "portal" out of the zone, straight to the Shadowlands ...

Now we dont know if those three enter points (Lift from Grymforge, Shadowlands next to Githyanki Patrol and Mountain Pass next to the Goblin camp) are leading to three separate maps ... just as Grymforge is ... or if they are separate enterpoints for the same place ... just as Underdark is ...
Personaly i bet for second option.

But as it seems right now, if you will follow one of the abowe mentioned routes (Halsin / Minthara / Lae'zel) you would most likely be led to skip the other two.
I mean, sure there is nothing stoping you to explore it all (as far as we know right now) but if Halsin urges you to go through the Underdark, why would you travel to Mountain pass? laugh

So there is (and i would say quite fair) possibility that they actualy DO want us to follow certain path, wich would mean skipping the rest.
(Aka leave it for another playthrough)

But ofc, there is other way we can understand it ... and that would be that any and every path will be deadend, forcing us effectively to travel through them all. laugh

yes but even if I ONLY follow one path there is plenty of side junk that you might skip if they cap you at lvl 4... for instance screw exploring the underdark at all... IF lvl 4 were the cap you litterally could go straight from the fort in the under dark to the beach and to the forge never even bother with True Soul Nere and just take the elevator (missing out on some nice gear in the process) which would make the underdark severely less dangerous, but then the player is missing out a heavy chunk of story (both side story and main). However IF I am a new player who knows nothing about Act 1 (IE the gear you can get and where to get it) and ONLY know that I have been lvl capped for the rest of the Act a few things are likely to happen:

1) I am going to be less likely to explore save for finding the current goal to advance to the next Act

2) Bail on quests that are "just too hard" (Example:
the fight against Nere is damn near impossible at lvl 4 unless you KNOW to recruit Brithvar or just happen to talk to him and choose the right dialog options
)

3) the second may lead to you quitting the game altogether IF its a main story quest that HAS to be completed to advance (so far there haven't been any of those that I can tell
as you can simply side with nere, let him die in the gas fill room, get help to kill him or as I mentioned just skip him all together
and
if you follow Lae'zel's advice so long as she isn't in the party you can talk your way out of fighting the Gith patrol... not that the fight against them is IMPOSSIBLE, just very difficult
)


Look I love that game encourages creative solutions to advancing past a problem in a quest/ fight... I even applaud the fact that there are some fights that you literally cannot win (at least at lvl4) without a creative solution/ discovering the special mechanic
(IE the fight against Grym)
, but "Impossible" fights should be largely saved for discoverable side quests/ optional bosses and MAYBE the occasional BBEG (Big Bad Evil Guy/Gal for those that don't know the acronym) and should be able to be made easier by simply coming back to them once you have leveled up a little.

I don't mind admitting that there was a fight in this game that I could not pass while locked at lvl 4 no matter how creative I got with the fight its self and I could only get past by doing something before the fight it's self and ONLY found out about that by accident here on the forums because some one didn't black out there spoiler correctly (I prefer not to use guides and try to avoid spoilers of any type) AND I would probably STILL be stuck not being able to defeat that particular fight at lvl4 if I hadn't (btw I am not upset with that person... I am reasonable and realize we are in EA and people are posting things to get bugs fixed and make suggestions to improve the game which may lead the occasional spoiler). My point here is the ONLY other solution to defeating THAT fight (AND not making a choice that was out of alignment with the I was playing my character) would have been to gain a lvl or two thus giving me access to abilities that you just don't have lvl 4 (Never underestimate what that extra D6 on sneak attack or that Extra attack that fighters get at lvl 5 can do)

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Originally Posted by Zellin
And here I'm again trying to understand from where people got this idea that there will be hard level caps per Act on full release. I can't even remember a game that would have such stupid feature.


In D:OS2, when you got to the "intended" level cap for an act, any further XP you got was crippled into virtually nothing, so that you were effectively level capped by act, no matter how thorough you were - then when you got to the next act, XP levelled you quickly again to the next cap for that act, where again, it hit the next 'wall'.

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Originally Posted by Niara
Originally Posted by Zellin
And here I'm again trying to understand from where people got this idea that there will be hard level caps per Act on full release. I can't even remember a game that would have such stupid feature.


In D:OS2, when you got to the "intended" level cap for an act, any further XP you got was crippled into virtually nothing, so that you were effectively level capped by act, no matter how thorough you were - then when you got to the next act, XP levelled you quickly again to the next cap for that act, where again, it hit the next 'wall'.

Oh my... I... I can't even right now. That is the WORST thing yet. Level cap per act? Seriously?

This game is severely going downhill for me, and fast. I'm losing a lot of hope in it that it'll be even remotely good when it's finished.

Level cap? By the Nine! Gah! I'm dying. No. Please no. Larian say it won't happen. Says you won't do it! PLEAAAAAASE!

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So I hit level 5 on my new Barbarian run, and I have a ton of content to still do before I head to the Under-dark (I am using the LvlUp mod by Oiff and it works fine for melee but requires additional help for cantrip progression). It requires MoreFeats to be installed witch is Awesome sauce in itself...Polearm Master is delivering steady opportunity attacks + bonus action attack (As it should). Great selection of feats!

There should be no such thing as balancing until Larian has implemented the higher levels and multi-class. The difficulty now will be like story mode for many.

I am loving Barbarian so far! Warlock is so great, but its nice to break out of the pen and paper rut of making warlock variants. Warlock is so good, that I could see it complimenting Barbarian, however I am thinking that Barbarian Rogue (Totem / Thief) might be a good pairing. Fast hands, Evasion, Expertise,
Uncanny Dodge, Sneak attack dice for bow will only make a tanky class be more tanky and spanky.

If you want to mod this is a good tutorial
.

Be warned the mod directory has been moved to an obscure location, but can easily be opened by running the BG3 mod manager and selecting "Open Mods Folder" from the "Go" Pull down menu.

Also, watch carefully where she clicks to start the download for the mod manager, because the highlighted text says something like latest version...NOT download.

Lastly, you can't just unzip the folders and dump them in there. You unzip, open them and then place the .pak files into the Mod Folder. I am not even sure why the jsn files are even there, but you may need to read the "Read Me" txt files if you download certain mods. Install them one at time if some work and others do not. Half-elf variant worked fine with me. It requires the Patch3ModFixer to be in the folder (as do others), but it won't even show up in the Mod Manager list...don't worry about that and just make sure it is in the Mod folder.

It took me a while to get the hang of this Mod Manager because on my first play through I manually entered the mod information into my profile. That was surprisingly painless at the time, but this is easier to swap out and try new mods.

Unity Mod Manager should work just fine by official launch.

This Youtuber has very good reviews of some mods...this video gives a background of the events between BG2 and BG3.
This is the official pen and paper adventure that is being referenced by Larian to base the background of their story.


Zariel briefly invades your characters mind after the encounter with the hunted Tiefling at the Toll House (Spoiler: If you kill the Oath Breaker Paladins).

P.S. I will update what level I finally hit.

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Makes sense to me tho ...
Power level difference between certain levels in DnD is HUGE and level 5 is prime example. :-/

Damage for most meele classes and cantrips is effectively doubled ... casters get another level of spells ...
I bet i dont need to repat all the reasons you know them well enough, since we are using them as reasons for implementing level 5 to Early Acess.

People wanted ballance ... this is how you get ballance.
Caps are not popular option ...
But you cant argue with their effectivity. :-/

(I shall return later to react on CMK ... that will require quoting and that is pain on phone. laugh )


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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Makes sense to me tho ...
Power level difference between certain levels in DnD is HUGE and level 5 is prime example. :-/

Damage for most meele classes and cantrips is effectively doubled ... casters get another level of spells ...
I bet i dont need to repat all the reasons you know them well enough, since we are using them as reasons for implementing level 5 to Early Acess.

People wanted ballance ... this is how you get ballance.
Caps are not popular option ...
But you cant argue with their effectivity. :-/

(I shall return later to react on CMK ... that will require quoting and that is pain on phone. laugh )

Use proper 5e stats and XP rewards, revamp some of the encounters a bit (and I don't mean a complete overhaul - just tweaks), give us party of 6 as a standard norm, and you'd have balance. You would not need a level cap.

Would you like me to again provide examples? đź‘ą

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
People wanted ballance ... this is how you get ballance.
Caps are not popular option ...
But you cant argue with their effectivity. :-/
Well, BG3 is really far from any resemblance of balance so not sure about it. It should eliminate danger of players overleveling while not punishing other players for b-lining through the story. It's a clunky and heavyhanded solution at best, but... meh. Not something I can get upset about with so many other glaring issues present.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Use proper 5e stats and XP rewards, revamp some of the encounters a bit (and I don't mean a complete overhaul - just tweaks), give us party of 6 as a standard norm, and you'd have balance. You would not need a level cap.

Would you like me to again provide examples? đź‘ą



[Linked Image from media.makeameme.org]

in all seriousness they could have balance without a 6 man party or even tweaking any fights or a level cap. Since there are no random encounters/ enemy respawn locations no matter how much exploring you do eventually you will run out of XP to gain and you will be forced to move on.

IF Larian is worried about that being too much XP and causing over leveling instead of level capping us (especially at lvl 4) they simply can remove some of the things that cause you to get XP... for example they could reduce or eliminate the XP for discovering certain areas...
like I don't need 75xp just for discovering the adamantine forge
especially if after discovering it I am about to get in a big fight resulting in an additional 100+ XP

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Use proper 5e stats and XP rewards, revamp some of the encounters a bit (and I don't mean a complete overhaul - just tweaks), give us party of 6 as a standard norm, and you'd have balance. You would not need a level cap.
As usualy you just trade one problem for another. :-/

Exping would then be awfully slow ...
Just try to imagine you would need to suffer level 1 during whole crypt, attack on grove, fighting the goblins in secret passage, fighting the harpies, Blighted Village, and maybe something more. laugh

And there is another ... strong encounters.
Imagine you play as a Gith ... and your character really agrees with Laezel ... then imagine you would only get to level 3 during whoooole surface ... and then you met Githyanki Patrol. :-/
What would you do?
And remember this is suppose to be ROLEPLAYING game ... so there is no "i just go to Underdark to get some more XP". :-/

Originally Posted by Wormerine
Well, BG3 is really far from any resemblance of balance
During that last year and (almost half?) you should allready noticed that this is more like "work in progress". wink

Originally Posted by CMK
IF Larian is worried about that being too much XP and causing over leveling instead of level capping us (especially at lvl 4) they simply can remove some of the things that cause you to get XP...
NO, they cant. smile
I obviously dont what "what Larian is affraid of", but if i had to gues ... my money would go indeed to ballance.

You have two players in Act 1 ...
Player A ... lets call him for example CMK ... no reason, certainly not anyhow related to his previous claim that he will rush to next Act once he reach level cap. smile ... Will rush to next Act once he reach level cap.
Plyber B ... lets call him for example RagnarokCzD ... again, no reason at all, is completionist madman and will never move to the next part until he explore curent one ...

Now after end of Act 1 ... you need those players to be at aproximately same strength, otherwise no matter what you prepare one of them (CMK) will probably die no matter what, since he is missing gear from skipped quests and locations, maybe there could be some NPCs or secret to reveal, that would helm him aswell ... but he never seen them, bcs he rushed forward ... and the other (RagnarokCzD) will most likely go through everything like a hot knife through butter, bcs he didnt missed anything from his path, but he also gathered everything from pathes he was not even supposed to take. laugh

In other words ...
Even if you would change amount of XP "per Act" all you change is how fast people get that level ...
But you still will have those who just follow the main quest ... and those who are exploring like crazy ... and you need to keep them on at least simmilar level.


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I remember when I was appropriate level at beginning of Act 2 of DOS2 and everyone else was complaining about xp nerf patch and I had no idea what they meant. They meant gaining xp from killing NPC, of which I done none, but I still obviously done every single legal quest and experience in Act 1. I think that can't be the case here, you simply reach level 4 way too quickly... and of course story rushing is a thing, but I feel you can't try to please everybody, why can't story rushers simply do some adventuring before Act 2?

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I see your point Ragnarok, but level capping like that just feels like such an incredibly blunt force solution for a problem that many other games in this genre have worked out more elegant solutions to. Also, it's really easy to get to level 4 quite quickly. There are folks who can kill all the monsters on the Nautiloid and go up several levels just from that. Furthermore, it's not that hard to hit level 5 before you deal with all the stuff related to the grove.

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