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Originally Posted by Wormerine
I want to jump my party down - but AI will decide to take different path and walk right into enemy sight.
Thats the thing ...
I have 770h played ... and i never even once seen such behaviour. :-/

Cant blame me for finding it strange. :-/

Originally Posted by Wormerine
I have no way of specifiying of what all but one of my party members are supposed to do.
Except removing that one member from the party? And then continue exactly as you did until now? laugh

Originally Posted by Wormerine
sigh, you really should try to read and understand what people are complaining one of these days, instead of engaging strawman argument jumping blindly to Larian's defence.
What makes you think im "jumping there "blindly"" ? laugh
I mean come on man ... i also dont presume that you are complaining something just to be "blindly against anything just bcs Larian did it" ... is it too much to want you accept that my opinions are just as plausible as yours, even tho they are diferent?

Originally Posted by Wormerine
Have your leader have a ladder behind him and the followers will keep climbing up and down like stupid leming. Again, not a problem if you just walk the party from point A-B. But try anything more sophisticated with enemies nearby and the stupid AI will mess things up for you. Chaining isn't a problem if you play BG3 like DA:O - essencially move a blob of people from point A-B. But BG3 allows for far more nuanced interactions and control scheme should support that.
So ... that "nuanced and sophisticated" move is ... to click a ladder and then NOTHING? O_o
Pardon my scepticism, but while it certainly is amusing bug ... it hardly seems gamebreaking. :-/

Personaly i even doubt that this is problem of movement ... this specificaly seems like problem of lacking Z axis, where when you click a ladder, game dont even consume your movement, since it dont understands that any movement is even happening!
You wanna know why your followers are climbing up and down like idiots? Your character is in superposition where game can determine if you ended up or down, since there is no value for that ... and so they are following you to the oposite than where they are right now. smile

Such arguments really seems to me like complaining just for the sake of it. frown

Originally Posted by Wormerine
A movement problem that comes out from being able to tell only one character where to go.
I simply dont think that telling it to 4 characters make things any better ...

I mean if your party is moving from A to B and there is bazard in between those two points ... your main character goes right next to the hazard, so he is fine ... but your companion step right into it, bcs his formation says that follower 2 is suppose to be 1m in right and 1m behind your character ...
And he is there in both situations.

Originally Posted by Wormerine
There is no formation in BG3 - it's one person and AI tries to chaotically follow it.
Wrong ... there is no way to change your formation, that much would be true.
But if you didnt notice that your character followers are making exactly same formation every time you move them ... you certainly do something wrong. laugh

Originally Posted by Wormerine
How many times did I select a party memeber to disarm the trap only to have another companion walk in front of him and stand on the trap. It is a bloody nightmare.
Sounds like it ...
I can only tell how many times this happened to me ... never. :-/

I wonder why.

Originally Posted by Wormerine
This never happens in Baldur's Gate1&2, Solasta, Pillars of Eternity, Kingmaker. When you give the order to move, you know where everyone one of your characters will go to. you can move right up to any hazard knowing that AI won't fuck things up.
How many non-pretedermined ground hazards is in those games? smile


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Sometimes I like to think that the posters on here who dismiss other people's negative experiences of certain aspects of the the game because they haven't experienced it themselves, are a bit like a partner coming from work stating "I've had a terrible day" and the other partner saying, "well that can't be possible, because I haven't".

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That doesnt seem very acurate ...

But if you would like to use that example it would be more like:
Person A: I had terrible day.
Person B: How so?
Person A: I expected Person C to do something ... and he didnt, or did but didnt do it exactly as i expected.
Person B: Huh ... i never had that problem with Person C.

And them sometimes you can add line:
Person B: Tell me more, prehaps we can find out how is that possible that Person C works so well with me, but not with you.


Short coment on my English. smile

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So... Back to the topic of the thread... What was it again?

Oh, right. You can't mess with SH or Lae'zels stuff in prologue and that kinda causes some serious issues.

I get why they did it, though. Stealing their gear at start was something I always did. Thanks for the potions, revivify scrolls and weapons, armor, etc. You won't need them because you're not the MC.

But, the issue is, then you're stuck dealing with no ability to swap any equipment. It's a pain.

And then, it's still weird that later they let you take their armor and such that should probably be important to them. SH has Dark Justiciar armor she's wearing almost identical to Grymforge. Would she just let anyone take it and wear it? Lae'zels wearing Gith armor. Same for her. Doesn't really make sense.

Last edited by GM4Him; 12/03/22 12:45 PM.
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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Except removing that one member from the party? And then continue exactly as you did until now? laugh
I will just reply to this one as there is no point arguing further. You don't mind jumping through unnecessary hoops. I do, I find it annoying. Let's leave it at that. All I want to is to give feedback to Larian - they can take it or leave it.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
And then, it's still weird that later they let you take their armor and such that should probably be important to them. SH has Dark Justiciar armor she's wearing almost identical to Grymforge. Would she just let anyone take it and wear it? Lae'zels wearing Gith armor. Same for her. Doesn't really make sense.
The solution that would be most obvious to me would be to not start characters with cool equipment. That is a staple of an RPG (including D:OS2) to not start with items better than what is available for hours of future gameplay. I tend to steal Laez armor because for some characters it is the best armor one can get. There if of course little narrative reason for it - Mindflayers wouldn't necessary strip their prisoners of stuff if they are harmless. But I am sure the characters could start with unique fitting clothing, that also wouldn't be so desirable to steal.

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Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Except removing that one member from the party? And then continue exactly as you did until now? laugh
I will just reply to this one as there is no point arguing further. You don't mind jumping through unnecessary hoops. I do, I find it annoying. Let's leave it at that. All I want to is to give feedback to Larian - they can take it or leave it.

+1. Right there with ya. Just want to give feedback and suggestions, not debate.

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Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by GM4Him
And then, it's still weird that later they let you take their armor and such that should probably be important to them. SH has Dark Justiciar armor she's wearing almost identical to Grymforge. Would she just let anyone take it and wear it? Lae'zels wearing Gith armor. Same for her. Doesn't really make sense.
The solution that would be most obvious to me would be to not start characters with cool equipment. That is a staple of an RPG (including D:OS2) to not start with items better than what is available for hours of future gameplay. I tend to steal Laez armor because for some characters it is the best armor one can get. There if of course little narrative reason for it - Mindflayers wouldn't necessary strip their prisoners of stuff if they are harmless. But I am sure the characters could start with unique fitting clothing, that also wouldn't be so desirable to steal.

Totally agree. I suggested at one point that all characters should start with zero equipment. As they move about the ship, they find and pick up their starter equipment... Including the origin characters. Why would mind flayers let you keep anything? You're a prisoner. You should have been stripped of everything but your clothes.

But yeah. Why does it make sense that if you are trying to work together with someone to get off that ship, that you wouldn't share equipment? If someone who is helping me needs a potion for healing, I would give them the potion because we're trying to work together to survive.

If they're not going to be a part of the party, I'd rather have them simply computer controlled at that point. At least then they might heal us with a potion of we need it, or something like that. In fact, having them computer controlled makes more sense so Lae'zel doesn't attack Zalk and then say, "Leave the devil. Just get to the helm.". Kinda silly.

But then, you couldn't kill Zalk now could you?

Last edited by GM4Him; 12/03/22 07:10 PM.
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Why would mind flayers let you keep anything? You're a prisoner. You should have been stripped of everything but your clothes.
At the moment of "harvesting" - yes, people become their prisoners. It would make perfect sense to strip them of everything valuable or dangerous. However, after being infected, we are no longer their prisoners - we become their agents. Lae'zel's remark about Us makes it perfectly clear.

So, logically, we should all start without any equipment. Not sure how we are going to defeat the first group of imps then? With bare hands and harsh language? A good solution to this was used in BG2, when you could pillage a chest in the nearest room, with plenty of mundane equipment to fit any class. However, in BG2 you've got your entire party right in the first room (except for Yoshimo, but he came relatively well-equipped). That's not the case here, with Shadowheart coming rather late to the party.

They could have placed a chest with SH's equipment relatively close to her pod. For example, in that room behind her, where we pick the key from the corpse. But that will require special dialogue lines, so that Shadowheart would be able to tell us to go searching for her stuff - with Lae'zel naturally objecting. Or maybe make it part of the cinematic of her release, when she rummages through some stuff, finds her armour and equips it, all being done without any interaction from player. Or, even better, Lae'zel would give her her armour, saying that she found it while looking for her own. Since we "don't have access" to their inventories now, that probably would be the best application of deus ex machina principle, without making the whole scene too much of a cringe.

It looks to me that Larian has chosen the easiest way to get around it, by leaving characters' equipment with them. This, of course, created other discrepancies, which seems to be always the case with the "add more homebrew to fix issues with homebrew" approach. Oh well, we have what we have.

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Based on what we see in the intro video I have no problem with still being in armor in the pods. Agree that your other gear should be stored somewhere nearby. But it’s possible it was and Lae’zel and Tav have already retrieved it before the game begins. It’s just Shadowheart who is problematic now she’s been added. Maybe her weapons and the artefact should be in that chest nearby.



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I guess what they were going for is they snatched people fast, so all their gear is on them.

Still, they could have it where starter gear is nearby. There are chests, tables, a few dead imps... Stuff could be all around that starter area.

Either way, all they'd have to do is have Lae'zel and SH's armor and weapons off limits to take. Potions and other are not off limits.

Or, have SH and Lae'zel computer controlled so they might help you with a potion or something if the AI seems they need to.

I think AI would be best, actually so Lae'zel tries to keep you moving towards the helm. Her objective.

But, again, Zalk's sword would be nigh impossible to acquire. Only party of 4 customs would likely get it.

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To be fair, with stealth being as broken as it is, you can solo Zhalk and his cambion friends with a single character with a bow, in complete safety - it just takes a *long* time.

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Originally Posted by Wormerine
You don't mind jumping through unnecessary hoops. I do, I find it annoying.
Thats actualy quite funny ...
Bcs i feel like i could say the same. laugh

From my point of view, you are even creating your own hoops so you can jump through them, the way you want to ... instead of using clearly easier and smoother way ... but that would mean leaving the comfort zone. smile


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Last edited by Wormerine; 13/03/22 08:52 PM.
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I found it just browsing hot fix patch notes, its under hot fix 20 and was purposely done.

Gameplay
Recruitable characters in Tutorial are no longer able to carry items and use consumables.

So ya, this was purposely done to stop using npcs as luggage, you could easily max weight Lae'zel before the jump and pick her up later to get all the junk with no restriction.

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This is Really terrible design guys, im playing a singler player RPG where i can control my followers in combat bu i cannot aslk them to pickup any loot or to change their equipment?!?? who thought this would be a good idea?? just terrible change it back thank you , not gonna bbother playing the game again before that happens. Honestly i thought it was a bug .

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I have no problems with the new starter area behavior, to me it makes sense that you cannot grab your not-already-companions stuff. The starting area is so easy that no intense use of companion stuff is necessary. That Everburn can be achieved here (it's easy to get) for me is actually a fault, but ok, I just don't do it.

I would also prefer that all infected would start with the worst class related gear, so Lae'zel should have a 13 AC armor, like Shadowheart (although the worst medium armor is 12 AC, isn't it?). To be honest, I would perhaps only give them 10 AC clothes even, with a chance to loot some armor after the ship had crashed. If the mindflayers wanted to keep Lae'zels outfit on her for the looks, it could be a "damaged Gith 13 AC armor". Or if that's too much effort for the start, give her just a generic chainmail. She actually also has normal boots and not Gith sandals.

Last edited by geala; 05/04/22 09:57 AM.
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I have seen some theories about Larian doing this to actualy prevent us to steal Lae'zel or Shadowheart starting gear ...
Even if we put aside the fact that we still can and quite easily ...

Wouldnt be easier to simply implement "Equipable by Lae'zel only" condition? O_o


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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
I have seen some theories about Larian doing this to actualy prevent us to steal Lae'zel or Shadowheart starting gear ...
Even if we put aside the fact that we still can and quite easily ...

Wouldnt be easier to simply implement "Equipable by Lae'zel only" condition? O_o
Yes it would be easier.

Doing so wouldn't prevent players from using Lae'zel as a pack mule, but is that really a problem?

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Not in my opinion ...
But we dont know developers intentions with this change ... maybe inacesibility(?) of their inventories, is just byproduct of something else they wish to achieve. :-/

Or at least i hope they dont sit in the office right now thinking: "Perfection ... this is working exactly as we wanted!" :-/


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