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I understand that writing characters is a lot of work, i know that both char where written by the same individual. But i do not want another Fane. This is a different game not DOS3 despite how much the CEO and Me want it to be.

Currently in game, if you look at the story, your re-using characters with minimal changes.

Fane= Asterion
Lohse = Gale
Shadow Heart = Red Prince
La'zeal = Sebille

Larion is known for its creativity, i am not mad- i am disappointed make sure we see some proper character growth at minimum since dos2 failed at that also. Then its ok to keep them the same.

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[sarcasm] No, but, don't you see, they've changed it! The ship that's crashing is a space ship this time! The forces that are more powerful than you duking it out on said crashing ship are aliens and demons instead of witches and zealots! You're miraculously saved from certain death after being thrown off the ship by a strange psionic force, not a magical godly one (it might be a magical godly one...)! This time it was the dry and acerbic one that introduced themself by putting a knife to your throat and threatening to kill you! (Okay, it's still the rogue character doing it in both cases, but we changed a thing, honest!) The horrible swamp just outside your starting area has a Hag in it this time, not undead! The little girl running a thief ring of orphans with more world smarts than she could really have and who will definitely be running the thieves guild in the third act is a tiefling this time! See, they changed things! [/sarcasm]


Edit: sorry for being snippy and snide... Larian's reliance on re-used tropes from their previous games, and how extremely heavy and egregious it is, is a real point of annoyance for me. It's pretty glaring just how much of this game's elements are recycled with a thin coat of pain from their previous work, once you start to notice it.

Last edited by Niara; 26/03/22 12:34 AM.
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Originally Posted by AusarViled
Fane = Asterion
Lohse = Gale
Shadow Heart = Red Prince
La'zeal = Sebille
I really don't see it... Definitely not to the point of calling those "minimal changes." Then again, D:OS2 character were so poorly developed I strugge to recollect much beyond what their intro cutscenes stated.

Maybe beside Asterion vampire gimmick being as underwhelming as Fane's undead one, but that's more of a gameplay thing, then character thing.

Last edited by Wormerine; 26/03/22 12:35 AM.
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I'm not sure where you're drawing that connection, a sassy mouth does not an entire character make.

Astarion is clearly Sebille: enslaved by creator, inappropriate bloodlust, learning to be a better person through the power of love (sex), also Elf. I forsee that at some point we will have to make a similar decision with him and his vampire creator, like we did with Sebille and the Mother Tree.

Edit: Oh, forgot, he pulls a knife on you in the encounter where he can first join the party, leading to him getting killed at the start of the game, also just like Sebille.

Last edited by Piff; 26/03/22 12:54 AM.
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There are only so many major archetypes to adhere to while simultaneously providing global market content. Where you see similarities and call it bad game design, I call it following classic character archetypes. Would you prefer Astarion be a strength based rogue that also has high charisma? Is that enough of a change? Call it well and good, though Astarion would then be a pretty poor choice for a party companion. A rogue doing rogue things is a rogue being a rogue; it's a character archetype, not necessarily poor game design. There are plenty more differences than similarities, and you're focusing on the negative for the sake of the negative instead of suggesting new pieces of constructive feedback. I fail to see any major connections behind any of the OP's connections, coming from an individual with nearly 1000 hours separately in DOS:2 and BG3.

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If you make a game where you have a rogue companion whose recruitment interaction involves them attacking you and putting a knife to your throat and threatening to kill you... and that character is also formerly enslaved by a powerful master who controlled their every choice...and that character displays unnecessary bloodlust and a cavalier disdain for the lives of others... and their character arc is mostly revolving around the inevitable showdown with their former master...

And then you make another game where you have a rogue companion whose recruitment interaction involves them attacking you and putting a knife to your throat and threatening to kill you... and that character is also formerly enslaved by a powerful master who controlled their every choice...and that character displays unnecessary bloodlust and a cavalier disdain for the lives of others... and their character arc is mostly revolving around the inevitable showdown with their former master...

That's not "following classic character archetypes" - it's cloning and reskinning.
Pointing this out is not "focusing on the negative for the sake of the negative" - it's giving legitimate feedback on character design.

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I dont know much about other Larian games, but Astarian is a narcissistic fuck bag and I kinda regret not letting the hunters have him. Though that just might be the ptsd in me speaking which Astarian very strongly triggered.

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I haven't play DoS 2 yet, just watched a few videos, still I agree with Piff, Astarion looks very much like Sebille (and a lot of other rogue characters, sure, but still once you noticed it it's a shame). I really enjoy Astarion character and I think (hope) that he could have a very interesting development regarding the player choices, but, once you have a made the parallel with Sebille, I don't know, it kind of "kills te mood". I just really hope that Larian is aware of those likenesses and that they prepare something (a little) different for Astarion.
Still, I won't complain about stereotypical characters as long as they have depth, and, as for now, all our companions have in-depth potential. So, wait and see!

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I rather not wait until release. Most players will judge the game by the first 5% of the content. As 95% of players will not see the last 5% of content. We can see it with Elden Ring. Elden Ring got all 9/10s because the start of the game is great, but the ending half is AWFUL. What DOS2 did was the same mistake BG3 is making. They are putting their bad content first. Fort JOY is more like FORT AWFUL. It is the worst entry to a game one can possibly conceive. This also therefore applies to all companions. If the first companions i see remind me of Fane / Sebille, Red Prince, and Beast, many players who are returning will immediately refund the game. Because from the get go- i see lazy game design.

The airship part is ok, the rest of act one is not. I played dos2 on ultimate, and yet i was constantly getting angry in bg3. Mostly because i kept seeing the same identical plot as i saw in dos2. The start of the game and act 1 should have 90% of the characters progression for companions. If you want to kill them off like you did in dos2 and bring new ones thats fine. That is way better then what we have now

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Somehow I start feeling happy that I found dos2 so extremely boring that I dropped it somewhere in the fort...

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Originally Posted by AusarViled
Fort JOY is more like FORT AWFUL. It is the worst entry to a game one can possibly conceive.
Interesting. My impression was completely different - I found opening island to be the peak of the game, maybe outside few individual bits of later game, like finalle to "bards" companion quest.

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I'd take Jan Jansen, Coran or Hexxat over Astarion in a heartbeat. Astarion feels like parody with his "evil vampiric ways". The vampire storyline isn't doing it for me either. It feels like an afterthought. Twilight fan fiction rather than a meaningful take on vampirism that would have meaningful game mechanical implications.

And BG3 desperately needs more light hearted adventurers like Coran or Ajantis to balance out that ridiculous snowflake cast. But I fear they are only going to add more snowflakes and revel in space hamsters.

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Having played through D:OS2 3 times and having had every party member around, I absolutely fail to see how Astarion resembles Sebille in any way at all. One is a narcissistic, sadistic, selfish and arrogant prick who is the very definition of Chaotic Evil in my book and has no redeeming qualities (being fangirl bait doesn't count), having been an utter scumbag even prior to his enthrallment - having recently replayed NWN2, I do find him somewhat similar to Bishop in how he carries himself and reacts to things, apart from the obvious difference in pompousness and the level of snobism, and another was enslaved as a child and brought up to be a magically controlled killer who managed to escape enslavement and is genuinely regretful of what she had to do but had no power to oppose it, and her storyline is that of revenge AND redemption.

Originally Posted by 1varangian
I'd take Hexxat over Astarion in a heartbeat.
But Hexxat (pardon the pun) sucks. Out of the four Beamdog-added mainline companions she's probably the blandest? I could tolerate Neera, found Dorn just slightly aggravating and was only mildly irritated by how his quests in BG2:EE were written with only an evil character in mind, and Rasaad... fine, I suppose she shares the blandest title with Rasaad. But she neither had any particular involvement with the story (granted, none of the EE crew had, with the old three mostly getting the benefit of the doubt on account of being in the first game also) nor was really useful as a party member, forcing you to either wear that stupid shroud which gimps her significantly or only be doing anything important outside at night. Good luck doing all of Suldanesselar after the sun sets.

Last edited by Brainer; 31/03/22 11:12 AM.
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On my very first playthrough of DoS2 I ended up killing Sebille and leaving her behind. I didn't get to learn her story and my opinion of her character pretty much mirrored how most people seem to view Astarion. It was only on subsequent playthroughs that I took her with and learned the rest of it.

And. My opinion of her didn't really change that much, but it did change some, I'll admit. Maybe I just found other characters more sympathetic. It's interesting how people judge the whole character based on the first act of the game, Sebille and Astarion both, and how people seem eager to take Astarion, a known liar, at his word. I don't expect a full heel turn in his future, but I do expect a version of Sebille's kill the slave master storyline, just with the names and actors swapped out.

But the community reaction to both Sebille and Astarion is absolutely the same, at least judging by conversations based on this forum and reddit. They are both the most killed and the most disliked of the companions so far. The only difference seems to be that occasionally Astarion is funny, which means people kill him slightly less.

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Originally Posted by Piff
On my very first playthrough of DoS2 I ended up killing Sebille and leaving her behind. I didn't get to learn her story and my opinion of her character pretty much mirrored how most people seem to view Astarion. It was only on subsequent playthroughs that I took her with and learned the rest of it.

And. My opinion of her didn't really change that much, but it did change some, I'll admit. Maybe I just found other characters more sympathetic. It's interesting how people judge the whole character based on the first act of the game, Sebille and Astarion both, and how people seem eager to take Astarion, a known liar, at his word. I don't expect a full heel turn in his future, but I do expect a version of Sebille's kill the slave master storyline, just with the names and actors swapped out.

But the community reaction to both Sebille and Astarion is absolutely the same, at least judging by conversations based on this forum and reddit. They are both the most killed and the most disliked of the companions so far. The only difference seems to be that occasionally Astarion is funny, which means people kill him slightly less.
That's about the opposite of how I imagined it being, given how everywhere else everyone seems to be practically worshipping Astarion and hating on Lae'zel (who doesn't really deserve it, honestly, because in her case her personality and attitude are completely in character for her race, and having the polar opposite of the githzerai companions that were in some of the older games is both interesting and refreshing). I am surprised to hear about the hatred for Sebille as well, honestly. You'd think more people would despise the Red Prince instead, who's actually closer to Astarion in character at least on the surface (outward attitude) level, but nope. Or Beast, who's probably the least developed of the cast (the fact that his background seems to have changed at least once during development - he used to be a, well, beastial and savage dwarven gladiator - must have played a role there).

Staying away from any forums and communities back when D:OS2 released to avoid spoilers sure had an effect. As for Astarion, I am pretty sure his storyline isn't gonna go towards liberation and redemption, but rather to taking the reins and claiming the power for himself, if his character is any indication. Just a guess.


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